Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Death Mate
Death Mates
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Death Mate on 10/03/2008 12:22:03
Serious topic warning:
I must plead ignorance. I must also plead laziness to RTFM but don't think it would get to the heart of the matter, anyway.
So here we are.
What exactly is the issue with the Cynojammer that has everyone upset?
How SHOULD it work, in your opinion?
More specifically, is there a specific nuance of BoB's use of one aspect of the cynojammers that is controversial? If not, has this problem not been around since their inception?
|
Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:23:00 -
[2]
Okay, I'll bite on the flamebait.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=692485
There's a good writeup about it. The main problem is that you can easily have a capital fleet (who can get into the system via a series of jumpbridges) defend the cynojammer that can only be attacked by BS's. Okay that's fine, but when you can fit upwards of 30-40 faction medium guns it becomes increasing difficuit. And after incaping the cynojammer, you have about 30 minutes before they blow up the cynojammer and just anchor a new one.
Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:24:00 -
[3]
Cynojammers themselves arent really the problem, theyre good for keeping hostile caps out of your system. The problem is combing multiple titans with cyno jammers since the cyno jammers prevent you from countering the titans and the titan prevents you from taking down the jammer.
Basically its rock, paper, scissors only the rock is no longer allowed to break the scissor, hence playing scissor means victory guaranteed.
As for the fix, beats me. Its fairly impossible to balance eve for large or small pvp without breaking the other. POSes in general are the problem tbh. -----
|
Jhyme
Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:25:00 -
[4]
I hear BoB is pretty successful at taking down CVA cynojammers, even without 4 CVA titans and dozens of capitals in system c/d?
|
WowZilla
The Leeroy Jenkins Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:29:00 -
[5]
Its not beyond reason that 4 titans with no support at all could defend a cyno jammer from a huge hostile BS fleet.
200 v 4 and the 4 win seem right?
______________________ I am the worst poaster |
Sinsalura
id TECH
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:30:00 -
[6]
Yes... like every alliance has titans and a cap fleet waiting in every single one of their cyno jammed systems.... just waiting for a strike at it at any time...
Taking out a cyno jammer the first time is relatively easy, its what you make of that opportunity afterwards in terms of bringing in caps etc.. in preparation for finishing the job off where another cyno jammer will undoubtedly be online. ~ id TECH ~ now recruiting |
TWD
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: WowZilla Its not beyond reason that 4 titans with no support at all could defend a cyno jammer from a huge hostile BS fleet.
200 v 4 and the 4 win seem right?
I think the battleships will stay around tbh and not warp out, to watch the pretty explosions caused by the DD's. |
Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TWD
Originally by: WowZilla Its not beyond reason that 4 titans with no support at all could defend a cyno jammer from a huge hostile BS fleet.
200 v 4 and the 4 win seem right?
I think the battleships will stay around tbh and not warp out, to watch the pretty explosions caused by the DD's.
4 DD's at the same time cause 0 lag, c/d?
Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Death Mate What exactly is the issue with the Cynojammer that has everyone upset?
Nothing is the issue with cynojammers.
Only because goons are too stupid to take it down with t1 frigs and shuttles and because they start a huge whine (again) it doesn't change things.
History shows that there are many cyno jammers killed already successfully. Or how do you think BoB + allies lost all their space? By not setting up cyno jammers?
Also Tri killed various cyno jammers, RA did it. AAA killed them, Razor killed them also.
There is nothing wrong with the jammers. There is something wrong with the attackers. Throwing zillions of useless t1 crap at the cyno jammer and then whining about lag is really beyond being stupid
|
Local Her0
Minmatar La Mancha Corp
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Death Mate What exactly is the issue with the Cynojammer that has everyone upset?
Nothing is the issue with cynojammers.
Only because goons are too stupid to take it down with t1 frigs and shuttles and because they start a huge whine (again) it doesn't change things.
History shows that there are many cyno jammers killed already successfully. Or how do you think BoB + allies lost all their space? By not setting up cyno jammers?
Also Tri killed various cyno jammers, RA did it. AAA killed them, Razor killed them also.
There is nothing wrong with the jammers. There is something wrong with the attackers. Throwing zillions of useless t1 crap at the cyno jammer and then whining about lag is really beyond being stupid
its you, you are stupid
|
|
TWD
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:46:00 -
[11]
Edited by: TWD on 10/03/2008 12:46:34
Originally by: Yorda
4 DD's at the same time cause 0 lag, c/d?
So what you're saying is that lag is the problem ? And that the game should be rebalanced because of lag? (lol) |
Fesken Rans
Caldari The Order of Cistral
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Death Mate
So here we are.
What exactly is the issue with the Cynojammer that has everyone upset?
Eve can't beat BoB, lol.
|
KIATolon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gnulpie Nothing is the issue with cynojammers.
Only because goons are too stupid to take it down with t1 frigs and shuttles and because they start a huge whine (again) it doesn't change things.
History shows that there are many cyno jammers killed already successfully. Or how do you think BoB + allies lost all their space? By not setting up cyno jammers?
Also Tri killed various cyno jammers, RA did it. AAA killed them, Razor killed them also.
There is nothing wrong with the jammers. There is something wrong with the attackers. Throwing zillions of useless t1 crap at the cyno jammer and then whining about lag is really beyond being stupid
None of those people did so against 4 titans defending the jammer POS... which is where the actual issue is. It's simply impossible to kill a cynojammer that's defended by a cap fleet and a handful of titans.
Xttz had a great idea. Cynojammers should disable all capital modules, so no triage, siege, DD, Portal, fighters, capital reps. That might fix things.
|
KIATolon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:48:00 -
[14]
Also I dont know why I have a penchant for replying to trolls today.
|
Jhyme
Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:51:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jhyme on 10/03/2008 12:55:53
Originally by: TWD Edited by: TWD on 10/03/2008 12:46:34
Originally by: Yorda
4 DD's at the same time cause 0 lag, c/d?
So what you're saying is that lag is the problem ? And that the game should be rebalanced because of lag? (lol)
I don't know what he's saying, but I do know what you're saying. You're saying people are dumb for not running away from a faction fit deathstar with titan on grid. In that case, why don't you just park your titans there. What could beat a titan babysitting a factionfit cynojammer deathstar with capital support?
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Death Mate What exactly is the issue with the Cynojammer that has everyone upset?
Nothing is the issue with cynojammers.
Only because goons are too stupid to take it down with t1 frigs and shuttles and because they start a huge whine (again) it doesn't change things.
History shows that there are many cyno jammers killed already successfully. Or how do you think BoB + allies lost all their space? By not setting up cyno jammers?
Also Tri killed various cyno jammers, RA did it. AAA killed them, Razor killed them also.
There is nothing wrong with the jammers. There is something wrong with the attackers. Throwing zillions of useless t1 crap at the cyno jammer and then whining about lag is really beyond being stupid
Edit: I'll bite the bait too The cynojammer in NOL was killed successfully multiple times, probably by t1 goon frigs from what you're saying. Doesn't change the fact that another one can be put up a few mins later even though poses are reinforced.
|
Death Mate
Death Mates
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:51:00 -
[16]
Okay, so in essence: winning the battle in the system with the jammer is two-pronged that makes it so difficult. Getting down the jammer and then having a very short window of opportunity before another one goes up.
So far so good guys, keep the direct attacks down. o/
|
TWD
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jhyme
I don't know what he's saying, but I do know what you're saying. You're saying people are dumb for not running away from a faction fit deathstar with titan on grid. In that case, why don't you just park your titans there. What could beat a titan babysitting a factionfit cynojammer deathstar with capital support?
Good idea, we'll park our ~20 titans at our ~20 jammer towers outside the shields 23/7 and go AFK, that should stop you from attacking it. |
WowZilla
The Leeroy Jenkins Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: KIATolon
Originally by: Gnulpie Nothing is the issue with cynojammers.
Only because goons are too stupid to take it down with t1 frigs and shuttles and because they start a huge whine (again) it doesn't change things.
History shows that there are many cyno jammers killed already successfully. Or how do you think BoB + allies lost all their space? By not setting up cyno jammers?
Also Tri killed various cyno jammers, RA did it. AAA killed them, Razor killed them also.
There is nothing wrong with the jammers. There is something wrong with the attackers. Throwing zillions of useless t1 crap at the cyno jammer and then whining about lag is really beyond being stupid
None of those people did so against 4 titans defending the jammer POS... which is where the actual issue is. It's simply impossible to kill a cynojammer that's defended by a cap fleet and a handful of titans.
Xttz had a great idea. Cynojammers should disable all capital modules, so no triage, siege, DD, Portal, fighters, capital reps. That might fix things.
too excessive imo, however cyno jammer becoming disabled, for say 30 minutes, when a DD is activated on the same grid would balance things out. removes the iwin button. ______________________ I am the worst poaster |
Jhyme
Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TWD
Originally by: Jhyme
I don't know what he's saying, but I do know what you're saying. You're saying people are dumb for not running away from a faction fit deathstar with titan on grid. In that case, why don't you just park your titans there. What could beat a titan babysitting a factionfit cynojammer deathstar with capital support?
Good idea, we'll park our ~20 titans at our ~20 jammer towers outside the shields 23/7 and go AFK, that should stop you from attacking it.
Yeah wouldn't that be great if you still had 20 jammer station systems left to defend
|
KIATolon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: WowZilla
Originally by: KIATolon
Originally by: Gnulpie Nothing is the issue with cynojammers.
Only because goons are too stupid to take it down with t1 frigs and shuttles and because they start a huge whine (again) it doesn't change things.
History shows that there are many cyno jammers killed already successfully. Or how do you think BoB + allies lost all their space? By not setting up cyno jammers?
Also Tri killed various cyno jammers, RA did it. AAA killed them, Razor killed them also.
There is nothing wrong with the jammers. There is something wrong with the attackers. Throwing zillions of useless t1 crap at the cyno jammer and then whining about lag is really beyond being stupid
None of those people did so against 4 titans defending the jammer POS... which is where the actual issue is. It's simply impossible to kill a cynojammer that's defended by a cap fleet and a handful of titans.
Xttz had a great idea. Cynojammers should disable all capital modules, so no triage, siege, DD, Portal, fighters, capital reps. That might fix things.
too excessive imo, however cyno jammer becoming disabled, for say 30 minutes, when a DD is activated on the same grid would balance things out. removes the iwin button.
Yeah that could work too.
|
|
Chip2k3
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:03:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Chip2k3 on 10/03/2008 13:03:09
Originally by: WowZilla
Originally by: KIATolon
Originally by: Gnulpie Nothing is the issue with cynojammers.
Only because goons are too stupid to take it down with t1 frigs and shuttles and because they start a huge whine (again) it doesn't change things.
History shows that there are many cyno jammers killed already successfully. Or how do you think BoB + allies lost all their space? By not setting up cyno jammers?
Also Tri killed various cyno jammers, RA did it. AAA killed them, Razor killed them also.
There is nothing wrong with the jammers. There is something wrong with the attackers. Throwing zillions of useless t1 crap at the cyno jammer and then whining about lag is really beyond being stupid
None of those people did so against 4 titans defending the jammer POS... which is where the actual issue is. It's simply impossible to kill a cynojammer that's defended by a cap fleet and a handful of titans.
Xttz had a great idea. Cynojammers should disable all capital modules, so no triage, siege, DD, Portal, fighters, capital reps. That might fix things.
too excessive imo, however cyno jammer becoming disabled, for say 30 minutes, when a DD is activated on the same grid would balance things out. removes the iwin button.
still not good enough. 4 titans = 2 DD's every 30mins. thats enough to wipe out a bs fleet so the jammer will always be defended. however i dont see why a rotating warp in shouldnt work. get a few covops positioned in strategic positions around the jammer, send in groups of....20? 30? 40? BS's at a time. As long as you have the advantage of numbers then the titans wont DD a small group of ships.
although this tactic could be countered with carriers repping the jammer. if the whole fleet warps in for the carriers the titan goes kerboom
MEMBER OF TEAM TURBOÖ |
Jhyme
Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:06:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jhyme on 10/03/2008 13:11:30
Originally by: Chip2k3 Edited by: Chip2k3 on 10/03/2008 13:03:09
Originally by: WowZilla
Originally by: KIATolon
Originally by: Gnulpie Nothing is the issue with cynojammers.
Only because goons are too stupid to take it down with t1 frigs and shuttles and because they start a huge whine (again) it doesn't change things.
History shows that there are many cyno jammers killed already successfully. Or how do you think BoB + allies lost all their space? By not setting up cyno jammers?
Also Tri killed various cyno jammers, RA did it. AAA killed them, Razor killed them also.
There is nothing wrong with the jammers. There is something wrong with the attackers. Throwing zillions of useless t1 crap at the cyno jammer and then whining about lag is really beyond being stupid
None of those people did so against 4 titans defending the jammer POS... which is where the actual issue is. It's simply impossible to kill a cynojammer that's defended by a cap fleet and a handful of titans.
Xttz had a great idea. Cynojammers should disable all capital modules, so no triage, siege, DD, Portal, fighters, capital reps. That might fix things.
too excessive imo, however cyno jammer becoming disabled, for say 30 minutes, when a DD is activated on the same grid would balance things out. removes the iwin button.
still not good enough. 4 titans = 2 DD's every 30mins. thats enough to wipe out a bs fleet so the jammer will always be defended. however i dont see why a rotating warp in shouldnt work. get a few covops positioned in strategic positions around the jammer, send in groups of....20? 30? 40? BS's at a time. As long as you have the advantage of numbers then the titans wont DD a small group of ships.
although this tactic could be countered with carriers repping the jammer. if the whole fleet warps in for the carriers the titan goes kerboom
You're assuming that the 30 faction fit guns on the deathstar won't pop the small groups of subcapitals going in. Btw, if you have any serious real tactics against this, post it in the thread that was linked before. This thread is pure flamebait.
edit@ Gnulpie below:
Check the other thread, the comments were made well before the invasion of Delve, and not really cause and effect of recent events.
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: KIATolon Xttz had a great idea. Cynojammers should disable all capital modules, so no triage, siege, DD, Portal, fighters, capital reps. That might fix things.
Completely wrong way.
The only thing to improve cyno jammers would be to move away from their binary state (100% jamming or 0% jamming).
The sov system is a step towards that direction. You can gain step by step sov and if you have the patience and the power you can gain sov 4. It is not that you own all and everything completely or have no control at all - it is finer grained.
On the other hand, I stil don't see what there is wrong. You can't capture a system with 4+ titans and a cyno jammer inside. So what?
Who said that everyone should be able to do everything? If someone digs themselves into a system that deeply and defends it with everything they have and if they can keep up the defence, well, good game then. Why should anyone be able to capture that?
In the end it is just a matter of willpower. Who will lose first interest and get tired? The attackers or the defenders? There are soooooooo many ways to make the life of the dug in defenders really miserable. Maybe they give up on their own if they get tired enough.
But as long as goons are throwing away fleet after fleet and cheer up bob this way (and of course it is about goons and bob, nothing else) they hardly can expect bob to give up. I guess they have one of the best times ever slaughtering fleet after fleet (for whatever reason).
So, brute force fails? And you can't invent other methods instead of running to the forums and whining? *shrugs* I guess you don't deserve to capture these systems then.
|
Desiderata Fabian
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Chip2k3
still not good enough. 4 titans = 2 DD's every 30mins. thats enough to wipe out a bs fleet so the jammer will always be defended. however i dont see why a rotating warp in shouldnt work. get a few covops positioned in strategic positions around the jammer, send in groups of....20? 30? 40? BS's at a time. As long as you have the advantage of numbers then the titans wont DD a small group of ships.
although this tactic could be countered with carriers repping the jammer. if the whole fleet warps in for the carriers the titan goes kerboom
What you are missing here is that all of your BS really need to be in one close blob so that you remote-rep each other, you are after all at a deathstar pos and will need to be there for a while to kill off all those jammer hitpoints, a BS outside of the RR blob will quickly become a dead BS to small a blob and you can't collectively regenerate the HP to tank the deathstar.
The Cosmopolites thread op really is an excellent analysis of the situation.
|
TWD
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jhyme
Originally by: TWD
Good idea, we'll park our ~20 titans at our ~20 jammer towers outside the shields 23/7 and go AFK, that should stop you from attacking it.
Yeah wouldn't that be great if you still had 20 jammer station systems left to defend
Good point, I suggest you threadnaught about it to help you on the way. |
KIATolon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: TWD Good point, I suggest you threadnaught about it to help you on the way.
Just as soon as we're done not-existing and never building up in 0.0 again.
|
maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Death Mate
What exactly is the issue with the Cynojammer that has everyone upset
How SHOULD it work, in your opinion?
Not everyone is upset just the GOONS (again) and a few of their allies and they are blaming it on their inability to beat BOB although over the last 12 months the coalition has taken tons of jammed systems from BOB while BOB had exactly the same amount of titans.
Now it seems that GOONS are blaming cyno jammers for the fact they cannot take NOL or beat BOB instead of the fact that most of their allies are no longer fighting the war for them and have gone home.
|
Death Mate
Death Mates
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: KIATolon Xttz had a great idea. Cynojammers should disable all capital modules, so no triage, siege, DD, Portal, fighters, capital reps. That might fix things.
Completely wrong way.
The only thing to improve cyno jammers would be to move away from their binary state (100% jamming or 0% jamming).
The sov system is a step towards that direction. You can gain step by step sov and if you have the patience and the power you can gain sov 4. It is not that you own all and everything completely or have no control at all - it is finer grained.
On the other hand, I stil don't see what there is wrong. You can't capture a system with 4+ titans and a cyno jammer inside. So what?
Who said that everyone should be able to do everything? If someone digs themselves into a system that deeply and defends it with everything they have and if they can keep up the defence, well, good game then. Why should anyone be able to capture that?
In the end it is just a matter of willpower. Who will lose first interest and get tired? The attackers or the defenders? There are soooooooo many ways to make the life of the dug in defenders really miserable. Maybe they give up on their own if they get tired enough.
But as long as goons are throwing away fleet after fleet and cheer up bob this way (and of course it is about goons and bob, nothing else) they hardly can expect bob to give up. I guess they have one of the best times ever slaughtering fleet after fleet (for whatever reason).
So, brute force fails? And you can't invent other methods instead of running to the forums and whining? *shrugs* I guess you don't deserve to capture these systems then.
I think this is a good post. Actually, you might just be right.
|
maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Yorda
Originally by: maralt Not everyone is upset just the GOONS (again) and a few of their allies and they are blaming it on their inability to beat BOB although over the last 12 months the coalition has taken tons of jammed systems from BOB while BOB had exactly the same amount of titans.
Now it seems that GOONS are blaming cyno jammers for the fact they cannot take NOL or beat BOB instead of the fact that most of their allies are no longer fighting the war for them and have gone home.
If you read the thread I linked, you would see that is was posted by a star fraction member and a roadkill member and a couple tri members agreed with it within 10 replys.
Fair enough but if you read the forum its only since you fully admitted to failing in NOL and have pulled back that there is now 3 threads on the subject or related/connected subjects.
Pre-threadnaught propaganda posting much?.
|
KIATolon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.10 13:24:00 -
[30]
I thought we didn't have the guts to admit we failed? Pick a story and stick to it ;)
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |