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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.24 17:12:00 -
[421]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 24/05/2009 17:16:35
Originally by: Matrix Skye What is the risk to a gang that catches a miner or missioner (whether it be a wartarget or out in lo sec) in an asteroid field or deadspace?
Break it down more ... because you're assuming we're in a gang ... 1v1
You attack a target you're at war with ... you've spent your time tracking them down ... you attack them ... you're running the risk of losing YOUR ship ...
Many a times I've attacked a target 1v1 and got in over my head and lost my ship
Originally by: Matrix Skye What is the risk to a loot stealer that steals loot from a wreck that doesn't belong to him?
In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ...
victim is in a pod
victor is in a ship
loot thief is a ship
What exactly is the loot thief's risk ....
Ah yeah now i see it ... he risks having his feelings hurt because i dont thank him for taking my reward for my hard work
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.24 18:16:00 -
[422]
Originally by: The PitBoss You attack a target you're at war with ... you've spent your time tracking them down ... you attack them ... you're running the risk of losing YOUR ship ...
Probing a target down does NOT put you in practical risk and you KNOW it. :). That's virtually non-existent risk. The only risk is you losing your time. Now IÆm not saying youÆre wrong. But what IÆm saying is if youÆre going to claim practical non-existent risk IS risk then stop saying that loot thieves have no risk, because they do :).
Quote: Many a times I've attacked a target 1v1 and got in over my head and lost my ship
Even assuming that you jump on a miner or mission-runner 1v1 YOU WILL HAVE the upper hand. If you donÆt then youÆre doing it wrong . Mission ship or mining ship RARELY has scrambler/disruptor. So if youÆre losing ships to them many times then wow, youÆre either full of lose or sh**. Choose one.
Quote: In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ...
victim is in a pod
victor is in a ship
loot thief is a ship
What exactly is the loot thief's risk ....
Ah yeah now i see it ... he risks having his feelings hurt because i dont thank him for taking my reward for my hard work
And here you just make it very clear that you have a problem with non-practical risk with loot thieves. But you donÆt have a problem with the non-practical virtually non-existent risk in you attacking a miner or mission runner. This is very hypocritical of you. Mind you Eve is a game where even if the risk is non-practical it still is valid no matter how improbable it is. For example gate camps. YouÆre familiar with these as you run them occasionally :). Sure, there is the risk that a war target will call for reinforcements and they will make it on time to save him from the impending doom of your gate camp. But practically that RARELY happens. Yet the risk is still there. Just because the victim chooses not to come back to defend HIS wreck (not YOURS) doesnÆt mean the risk isnÆt there. And you definitely canÆt get mad because the loot stealer got to the loot before you did. You can fix this problem easily, as said before; get a dedicated looter. Problem solved. If youÆre too lazy or too unmotivated to loot or assign a looter, then you donÆt deserve that loot anyway. Very simple.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.24 20:23:00 -
[423]
A thread about Salvaging is never complete without Matrix Skye white knighting for the Missionrunners of New Eden and misrepresenting the facts.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.24 20:34:00 -
[424]
Quote: But what IÆm saying is if youÆre going to claim practical non-existent risk IS risk then stop saying that loot thieves have no risk, because they do :).
There isn't enough risk for loot thieves. For all other actions in game that a player takes that involves another player, there is a fairly balanced risk that it'll blow up in their face. Loot thief empties the wreck and then can instantly dock or warp away without anyone doing anything, unless the original owner returns in time to reclaim the materials. We both know how likely this is. There are options for dealing with people's actions in everything else in Eve, why not this? I want MY spoils of war, and I want the bastard that stole from me to be flagged so I at least have the legal option to hand him his ass for mucking about with my fun. This is not too much to ask.
Quote: You can fix this problem easily, as said before; get a dedicated looter. Problem solved.
The only people that act as dedicated looters in pvp are the vultures that stumble upon an opportunity to take the spoils from someone else. No pvp gang worth a **** is ever going to assign a dedicated looter. Putting all the loot in one place to be destroyed? ******ed. Expecting anyone to accept that job, when there are actually fun things they could be doing? Really ******ed.
And what about jita, or similar high traffic systems? You think a dedicated looter is going to win more times than not against all the neutrals that swarm anything that moves, waiting for a wreck? You idea is a good one, and good strategy, but you can't honestly believe that this is an emergent profession in Eve's PVP gangs. If you tell me it is, you're blowing smoke up my ass. One person in a gang may be chosen to pick loot, but that's for after the pew pew is finished. Nobody but the criminally insane will choose such a narrow game play role that basically excludes them from anything fun. Join me again to chase our own tails?
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The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.24 21:17:00 -
[425]
Edited by: The Jackhammer on 24/05/2009 21:17:39
Originally by: The PitBoss In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ...
victim is in a pod
victor is in a ship
loot thief is a ship
What exactly is the loot thief's risk ....
THIS
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Solo Player
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Posted - 2009.05.25 12:50:00 -
[426]
This thread should have died months ago. Maybe someone needs to come up with a better/more balanced idea since obviously the OP's has not succeeded in raising enough support.
As it is, the current suggestion will likely imbalance the situation more than it is currently skewed. Imagine:
A young capsuleer encounters a deserted battlefield. Some wrecks have not been looted, possibly due to them not yielding anything worth taking for the veteran combatants. Short on .isk, the young capsuleer cannot resist the temptation.
A corporate pilot has barely survived an ambush by a rival corporation's roamer. The battle has cost him and he feels entitled to the loot the aggressor has left behind. Woe him, as a specialized human vulture in a fast ship has been waiting for this moment and will now quickly swoop in and ransack all the best loot on the field.
Suicide gankers have just ganked a mining op by a alliance friendly to you. One of their ilk has waited at a safe distance and is now coming in to collect the spoils of their efforts. You will not let this injustice stand and hurry over to deny them.
Neither the current system nor the one proposed here likely works out in all these situation to everyone's satisfaction.
Things to consider: - why should shooting a ship make you the legal new owner of the spoils? - why should stealing property automatically give anyone the right to kill you and your crew?
Consider this from the perspective of those that decide what is right and what isn't in Empire space: the Empires.
Maybe an Empire - would consider a ship's property forfeit under certain circumstances? - would give a capsuleer the exclusive right to salvage under certain other circumstances? - would not intervene at all in such trivial matters?
Discuss, but better: make a new thread.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.25 16:07:00 -
[427]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 25/05/2009 16:07:43
Originally by: Solo Player This thread should have died months ago. Maybe someone needs to come up with a better/more balanced idea since obviously the OP's has not succeeded in raising enough support.
:: SNIP ::
Don't try to NECRO my thread ... still plenty of discussion AND support going on here ...
ALOT more interest and activity than the majority out there
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.25 16:35:00 -
[428]
Originally by: The Jackhammer Edited by: The Jackhammer on 24/05/2009 21:17:39
Originally by: The PitBoss In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ...
victim is in a pod
victor is in a ship
loot thief is a ship
What exactly is the loot thief's risk ....
THIS
I'm sure that mission-running ship or mining ship had a real good chance at popping your PVP gank-squad |
The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.25 17:57:00 -
[429]
Edited by: The Jackhammer on 25/05/2009 18:00:03
Originally by: Matrix Skye I'm sure that mission-running ship or mining ship had a real good chance at popping your PVP gank-squad
Although I should be considered a weapon of mass destruction ...
One person does not constitute a 'Gank Squad'
Read the quote ... 3 different people in a field with 3 different agendas
Get over yourself
BTW its funny you're assuming that the person in the field is running a mission or mining ... Welcome to eve ... there are a few more reasons to be in a field ... but those you constantly state are the only ones that help your argument and make him look all soooo defenseless.
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Senyru Suru
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.25 19:11:00 -
[430]
Originally by: The PitBoss Don't try to NECRO my thread ... still plenty of discussion AND support going on here ...
wow - you guys have been discussing this for more than a year now - how long do this things usually take to be accepted or rejected?
it seems to be that at the moment, the game mechanic is skewed in favour of the looter - but equally, i think the suggested solutions on the front page put the favour far too much in the favour of the winner of a fight. if those were implmented, wouldn't it make it far more viable to suicide gank someone, then come back in another ship and sweep up all the loot because you know no one else would pinch it while you were getting in a new ship?
also, it doesn't seem realistic. if this were a real scenario, the loot and salvage would be available to anyone who turned up. it should be possible to play as a rouge type character, sneaking in and stealing the loot. equally, in a real scenario, if you'd just won the fight, then you'd be able to start shooting any looter that turned up, without fear of Concord intervention.
i liked the idea someone suggested about any player that loots from a player wreck loses their Concord protection for a short time. adds risk to the looter, but also doesn't just hand the loot to the winner of a fight on a silver plate. -- --- one day we're all gonna die, and then we'll see who's laughing! |
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Zerethano
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:42:00 -
[431]
absolutely valid! dual flagging to can owner AND destroyer of ship looks like valid solution.
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Cyber Blue
Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:57:00 -
[432]
I can see what these guys are trying to say to a point. However, I do not believe the solution is completely valid. If operating in High Sec it is a fact that CONCORD does not allow one to destroy another pilot's ship without them getting involved. Even if that person is a loot thief, you do not have the right to attack them without CONCORD intervention except in the case if it is your loot because you just got wacked bye someone. Blowing someone up does not mean you now own their stuff.
One crime does not allow another crime to be valid. It does seem though that the crime of stealing is somewhat being allowed without much risk. So, what is there to be done? How about all crimes in High Sec be considered felonies, so to speak, thus allowing all pilots to utilize citizen arrest for crimes (blowing up offenders ship).
Attacking someone, you flash red to all. Stealing from someone, you flash red to all. A War Dec nullifies all involvement from CONCORD and standard citizens. Meaning, if someone comes along and steals loot from the wreck of someone's war target, they in essence are making themselves war targets by getting involved in the dispute.
I guess what it boils down to is the policy does seem to need some re-examing to determine what is fair and balanced for everyone.
End of line... |
NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:54:00 -
[433]
Quote: it should be possible to play as a rouge type character, sneaking in and stealing the loot.
Absolutely, but if you're gonna plan a robbery, you have to also plan your escape and how dangerous it becomes getting away from the scene also.
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Pigsie
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Posted - 2009.05.29 12:41:00 -
[434]
Edited by: Pigsie on 29/05/2009 12:41:21 This is crazy and unfair. Show us the flags!
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Raukho
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.05.29 12:45:00 -
[435]
agreed
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Donder Wolkje
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Posted - 2009.05.29 15:28:00 -
[436]
dual wreck ownership to the killer and the victims corp. YES!
And looting shouldnt be made impossible, but realistically risky business.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:46:00 -
[437]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:32:00 -
[438]
yar ill bite
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Carnelian X
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Posted - 2009.05.29 23:56:00 -
[439]
support
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Alexis Cato
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:23:00 -
[440]
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Merw
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.05.30 19:02:00 -
[441]
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Dictum Factum
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.31 02:06:00 -
[442]
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Gay Deceiver
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Posted - 2009.05.31 04:04:00 -
[443]
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Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.31 14:30:00 -
[444]
__
Recruiting
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Bret Caliaro
Catalyst Banking Leather Rose Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.31 14:31:00 -
[445]
Edited by: Bret Caliaro on 31/05/2009 14:35:59 supported
Edit:
It is annoying when you have a group of neutrels following the ship ur pvping against at 0m waiting to grab the loot with no repercussions. I was fighting a war in a mission hub and this was terrible with a swarm of neutrels hugged targets waiting just to swip the loot then sit there while you can't do anything. _________________________________________________
I'm a such a lazy Bast***, so I play smart not hard. |
ViRUS Pottage
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.31 15:47:00 -
[446]
Supported 100%
PVPers need more reward! _________
Originally by: CCP Taera
May I have your stuff?
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Pajama Sam
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:38:00 -
[447]
Supported.
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Dex Atherton
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Posted - 2009.06.01 05:39:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Zerethano absolutely valid! dual flagging to can owner AND destroyer of ship looks like valid solution.
Supporting dual flagging.
Also, this applies to Salvage rights as well, correct? Cause ninja salvaging is way out of wack with regard to risk/reward.
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Ris Dnalor
Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2009.06.01 07:34:00 -
[449]
I'd prefer if all space was made 0.0, CONCORD was deposed and tossed out on it's ear, and let the corporations defend themselves. Then if someone tried to nick your stuffs you could protect your own rights ;)
but in lieu of that, more flagging to allow people to fight over stuffs floating in space sounds good too.
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2009.06.01 11:43:00 -
[450]
Yeah... the wreck should not be owned only by the pod sitting there unable to do anything about looting... it should be owned by both the slain and the slayer. Grabbing from it should = a blinking status for both sides of the fight.
A 'targeted' wreck should not be salvageable by neutrals, either (just like a targeted ship cannot be boarded). This will prevent interlopers from snapping up your target, but not completely disable ninja-salvaging.
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