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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:03:00 -
[1]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 23/05/2008 12:04:50
I can't tell you how many times i've risked my ship in PVP and got the kill ... JUST to see my only REWARD get stolen by some 2 day alt with a faster ship.
The looter takes no risk to reap a HUGE reward at times ... IF it is just salvage .. why is the looter flagged to the person whose ship it was
PLEASE re-examine this policy
THE FIX: Looter should be flagged to EVERYONE on the kill mail ... AT THE VERY LEAST ... the looter should be flagged to the person laying the 'Final Blow'
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 San Matari.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 23/05/2008 12:06:25 Personally I don't think so. Strictly speaking, these 'spoils of battle' do not change ownership just because you blow their ships up. Think about it, how can you put a claim on something before you've grabbed it off the enemy carcass?
edit: grammar
San Matari Official forums |
Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:11:00 -
[3]
In what level security status is this issue most frequent, and under what conditions? eg. High sec war? eg. Low-Sec?
≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store |
The Jackhammer
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 23/05/2008 12:06:25 Personally I don't think so. Strictly speaking, these 'spoils of battle' do not change ownership just because you blow their ships up. Think about it, how can you put a claim on something before you've grabbed it off the enemy carcass?
edit: grammar
Then why is it when someone loots from an NPC wreck i've risked my ship to kill is FLAGGED to me ...
PLEASE ... TELL me the difference ...
/support
Thank-You,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Thessu Madshaii
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:29:00 -
[5]
well.. i think the same as Jackhammer... before the wreckages appear, there were the can¦s, and if u had stole from it, u were flashing red for the killer¦s Corporation... its very hard for PvPer to survive from the financial aspect, so we just want what is ours...
/support!
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Skogen Gump
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:29:00 -
[6]
I definitely support this. Whilst I agree there should be some moderation in what you can actually do, wreck looting is a punishment-less crime at the moment.
For example, in Frarn there is a rogue looter who steals items from LVL4 missions, apparently by scanning them down. How can this be fair to the person running the mission?
Someone suggested that it makes sense that you can't 'claim' something you've just killed, but I'm sure you could call it in terms of Salvage rights - perhaps this could be a voluntary thing ? you can opt to let anyone loot your wrecks, or that it only be members of you gang/corp/alliance ?
Anyway - I strongly support this, it's incredibly frustrating to have your loot pinched.
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Slave 775
Ministry of Punishment Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:31:00 -
[7]
This should have been fixed ages ago.
We need dual wreck ownership to the killer and the victims corp.
Its just plain wrong someone can steal from the wreck, and you can do absolutely nothing about it.
In security below 0.4 you can at least shoot him for stealing. But in highsec you cant do anything without concord knocking at your door.
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The Hooch
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:40:00 -
[8]
Indeed, this cannot be that hard to fix. This should apply to mission runners as well. If you rip off another guys stuff you should be flagged.
Hooch
Concord punishes people, it does not protect them |
Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:03:00 -
[9]
I agree with this, but it shouldnt stop looting as a whole it should just be riskier to the looters.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:18:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sigul Siento on 23/05/2008 13:18:13
Originally by: The Jackhammer
Then why is it when someone loots from an NPC wreck i've risked my ship to kill is FLAGGED to me ...
PLEASE ... TELL me the difference ...
/support
The DIFFERENCE, is that NPC's are there to provide pve. It would be meaningless if dead NPC's should have the lootrights to their own wrecks.
But why should you get rights to the loot of someone you just attacked? It would make no sense if the game mechanics were to say that the wreckage/loot of a player ship blown up as a result of unprovoked aggression were to belong to the aggressor.
The system is fine as it is.
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:31:00 -
[11]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 23/05/2008 13:33:29
Originally by: Sigul Siento ... ::snip:: wreckage/loot of a player ship blown up as a result of unprovoked aggression were to belong to the aggressor... :: snip ::
Ever hear of the game mechanic called .. The War Dec ??
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
Ceylana Zari
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:34:00 -
[12]
I support this 100%.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:41:00 -
[13]
No.
Wreck belongs to Victim.
Grow a pair and PVP in low sec / null sec rather than high sec suicide ganking then you can shoot anyone who goes for the loot.
Concord should not support suicide gankers.
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Piitaq
19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:41:00 -
[14]
Yeah its frustrating to see someone else steal your hard work, without being able to do anything about it!
I know just how you feel!
Problem is people just laugh when carebears get ripped off, but whines when PvPer does
Ohh the hypocracy
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: The PitBoss Edited by: The PitBoss on 23/05/2008 13:33:29
Originally by: Sigul Siento ... ::snip:: wreckage/loot of a player ship blown up as a result of unprovoked aggression were to belong to the aggressor... :: snip ::
Ever hear of the game mechanic called .. The War Dec ??
And how does your fix: "THE FIX: Looter should be flagged to EVERYONE on the kill mail ... AT THE VERY LEAST ... the looter should be flagged to the person laying the 'Final Blow'"
differentiate between war dec kills and other kills? Even if you edited it to "flag if victim and agressor(s) were at war" it still shouldn't change. It can still be an unprovoked attack and I haven't seen anywhere any rule saying that a war dec gives the dec'er rights to the property of the dec'ee, beside what they manage to actually take.
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Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:32:00 -
[16]
No. It's not your stuff. If you want it, take it.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:35:00 -
[17]
as a pvpr for the last 2 years.... signed... those who dont pvp.. probably dont get it ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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The Jackhammer
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: The Jackhammer on 23/05/2008 14:40:48
Originally by: Dav Varan No.
Wreck belongs to Victim.
Grow a pair and PVP in low sec / null sec rather than high sec suicide ganking then you can shoot anyone who goes for the loot.
Concord should not support suicide gankers.
What about LEGAL war targets? ... I'm in no way supporting OR condemning suicide gankers ...
Originally by: Sigul Siento .... I haven't seen anywhere any rule saying that a war dec gives the dec'er rights to the property of the dec'ee ....
Hey BRAINIAC .. thats what this forum is for ... TRYING to create change where people feel the rules need to be 'adjusted' ...
We've been exposed to you 'insightful' opinion now ... so please run along to ANOTHER thread ...
NOTED: Thats 1 more vote against ..
Thank-You,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Kyle Frost
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:02:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kyle Frost on 23/05/2008 15:04:47 Agreed , this should be fixed. It makes it very hard to earn money through empire PvP, not to mention that it is annoying as hell.
Serenity, i don't think this is much of an issue in lowsec, but in high security systems it is a big problem. The loot from the wreck is gone in a matter of seconds. It's like a pack of vultures swarms over it and sometimes they won't even leave the bones ( i.e. they salvage the wreck very fast ). All we are asking is to be allowed to shoot those vultures
NOTE: I am talking about wrecks left from war targets - not suicide ganking. ------
Let the gun do the talking... |
Arvald
The School 0f Fine Arts
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:35:00 -
[20]
/signed, managed to kill a wt in a mission ship not to long ago and he dropped a complex booster.......friggin 1 month old player got to it because he was in a merlin and i was in a plated abaddon -_-
Originally by: Liang Nuren
There are no dangerous ships, there are dangerous people. IIRC, you are one of them.
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TEK9
Captain Morgan Society Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:55:00 -
[21]
/signed
I have no objection to anyone trying to steal my loot, I just want to be able to shoot them if they do.
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Sir Atkinson
Mercenary Forces Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:55:00 -
[22]
I agree very much.
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The RedPlague
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Think about it, how can you put a claim on something before you've grabbed it off the enemy carcass?
Think about this ... if i just made an enemy carcass .. and you reach over and start sifting through his pockets right in front of me ... DON'T think i won't bash your head in ... game mechanics won't let me ...
/i totally agree (signed)
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:08:00 -
[24]
Wholeheartedly agree.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
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Steintz
Mercenary Forces Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 19:01:00 -
[25]
/signed
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CoatedMoose
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Posted - 2008.05.23 19:27:00 -
[26]
Edited by: CoatedMoose on 23/05/2008 19:27:03 Signed
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GARRAK
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Posted - 2008.05.23 19:44:00 -
[27]
Agreed something should be done, gangs have lost countless isk on both sides... even your fellow corp mates can't pick ya blown wreck loot up cos some nub frigate has been orbiting the ship ready to drag and drop the loot.
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VanHell
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Posted - 2008.05.23 20:41:00 -
[28]
i support this!!!
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Jairzinho
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Posted - 2008.05.23 20:50:00 -
[29]
Agreed.
If its pvp it should be your wreck. You take the risk in the battle you should get a reward
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Kehmor
PAK
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Posted - 2008.05.23 21:10:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kehmor on 23/05/2008 21:11:00 It should have been this way from the start. At the very least make it flagged for both you and the opposing corp. - Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes. |
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Raffael Ramirez
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.23 21:19:00 -
[31]
You keep what you kill..
Sounds allright
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Dlardrageth
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.23 22:32:00 -
[32]
Opposed!
Especially as not a clear alternative is given by OP. What is it now?
1. Flagged to all people on the killmail? (including victim, Concord and in low-sec some random trigger-happy trespasser?)
2. Flagged to the person with final blow only?
3. Flagged to victim and person with final blow?
4. Flagged to victim, all of his Corp/Alliance plus person with final blow plus all of his Corp/Alliance?
Sorry, nothing personal, I don't think the current state is optimal either, but just writing "Fix it!" without pointing out in which direction is a bit... meh.
Personally I'd favor option "6E":
6E. Flagged to Ronald McDonald who might come in and drop some BigMac(TM) if shot up...
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 22:58:00 -
[33]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 23/05/2008 23:01:03
Originally by: Dlardrageth Opposed!
First off .. you're obviously opposing this because of who i am and what alliance i'm in ... and NOT looking at the issue as it is being presented
Originally by: Dlardrageth Especially as not a clear alternative is given by OP. What is it now?
SECONDLY .. the original post was asking to RE-EXAMINE the policy ...
BUT since you brought it up ... I thought the idea of this forum was to bring up stuff the players of the game might think need changing ... IF i had to supply the fix too ... i would be a DEV ... i suggested a cpl of options i thought may be viable ... BUT maybe if you could look past your carebear tears AND READ the post correctly you would see that ...
Originally by: Dlardrageth 1. Flagged to all people on the killmail? (including victim, Concord and in low-sec some random trigger-happy trespasser?)
2. Flagged to the person with final blow only?
3. Flagged to victim and person with final blow?
4. Flagged to victim, all of his Corp/Alliance plus person with final blow plus all of his Corp/Alliance?
These are ALL viable options ...
Originally by: Dlardrageth Sorry, nothing personal, I don't think the current state is optimal either, but just writing "Fix it!" without pointing out in which direction is a bit... meh.
NOTED: 1 more to oppose ... please move on
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:02:00 -
[34]
Whats the difference , I thought I coverd this?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=778393
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: JVol Whats the difference , I thought I coverd this?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=778393
Well ... i guess the way I presented it got a little more attention ...
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:11:00 -
[36]
Since its obvios Im not getting ant responce on the original thread on this topic i'll ask here
If this was implemented, HOW would it negitively effect Eve, besides the can parisites having the approprate risk involved when stealing?
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Dlardrageth
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: The PitBoss Edited by: The PitBoss on 23/05/2008 23:01:03
Originally by: Dlardrageth Opposed!
First off .. you're obviously opposing this because of who i am and what alliance i'm in ... and NOT looking at the issue as it is being presented
Yeah, right. And write the other parts of the text because I'm so utterly bored, correct? If you would have cared to check, this one post you quoted is by far not the first of mine in this very sub-forum. Hate breaking the news to you, but neither you nor your alliance are that important to me by themselves, sorry.*shrug*
Back on the real topic, it's really nice you pulled almost a full-quote, but didn't bother to clarify what it is you want specifically. Believe me or not, if you were to point out in which direction the change should go, you might be more successful. And actually have my support instead of yet another post asking for clarification. That is... if you really want a specific change, of course...?
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Max Khaos
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:13:00 -
[38]
Support
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Profhet
Wraiths Reborn Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:13:00 -
[39]
definetely needs changing ____________________________
SIG GOES HERE |
VanillaChacolate
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:17:00 -
[40]
Should have been fixed long ago.
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Wayl4nder
Darwins Rejects
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:22:00 -
[41]
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dlardrageth ::snip:: what it is you want specifically ::snip::
Ok GENIUS ... WHAT exactly can you not GET from the title of the thread ??
[issue] Looting from MY kill SHOULD = looter flagged to ME
Originally by: Dlardrageth ... if you were to point out in which direction the change should go, you might be more successful. And actually have my support ...
AS STATED in the OP .... THE FIX: Looter should be flagged to EVERYONE on the kill mail ... AT THE VERY LEAST ... the looter should be flagged to the person laying the 'Final Blow'
AT this point i dont care about your support .. YOU'VE failed the internet .. PLEASE LEAVE ...
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:31:00 -
[43]
Originally by: JVol If this was implemented, HOW would it negitively effect Eve, besides the can parisites having the approprate risk involved when stealing?
It wouldn't negatively effect EVE ... its the basically the same concept the miner's were crying about a few years back ... its how we make isk AND some one can take advantage of our hard work with no repercussions.
NOW its a PVPer crying ... its how I / WE make money AND some one can take advantage of our hard work with no repercussions.
DID the can flagging hurt the game ?? ... NO actually made it a bit more challenging .. IMHO
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:32:00 -
[44]
Opposed because the OP has failed to outline both the present mechanics and the proposed change to the mechanics in clear terms.
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Lea Re
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:33:00 -
[45]
/signed
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Dlardrageth
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: The PitBoss [...] [issue] Looting from MY kill SHOULD = looter flagged to ME
!=
Quote: THE FIX: Looter should be flagged to EVERYONE on the kill mail ...[...]
!=
Quote: [...]AT THE VERY LEAST ... the looter should be flagged to the person laying the 'Final Blow'[...]
Just in case you did not get my point from the first post.
As I listed 4 realistic options (there are surely more) in my initial post, to clarify my position... I think either the option "becoming flagged to victim and person scoring final blow" or "becoming flagged to whole Corp/Alliance of victim and person to score final blow" would have my support ATM. Not the other ones. That easy.
On a side note I think making a specific suggestion instead of writing (in a few more words, granted): "Um, fix stuff! kkthxbb" has somewhat better chances at getting a fix. And - as I clearly stated - I don't like the current state either, I'd rather like to have a suggestion/issue which is not counter-productive. YMMV.
Quote:
AT this point i dont care about your support .. YOU'VE failed the internet .. PLEASE LEAVE ...
Oh right. Sure. If you say so, I'll surely do... not.
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Opposed because the OP has failed to outline both the present mechanics and the proposed change to the mechanics in clear terms.
Nice alt
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
CynoGirlx
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:58:00 -
[48]
The OP addressed a game mechanic that has long been broken and suggested that it be revised.
Agreed.
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Nikki Software
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:59:00 -
[49]
/signed
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AlaCasio
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:00:00 -
[50]
Always in favor of fixing a system that doesn't make sense with one that does make sense.
/signed
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Aurora Rose
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:02:00 -
[51]
Aye.
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Nauticcus
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:03:00 -
[52]
This one is obvious.
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Sworn Absent
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:28:00 -
[53]
OP, how do you see this combining with CCP's reimbursement policy where items that drop in a wreck dont get reimbursed. Do you think that this would need to change if the wreck became the belonging of the killer in a fight?
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Sabine Borgia
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:39:00 -
[54]
/signed |
The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sworn Absent OP, how do you see this combining with CCP's reimbursement policy where items that drop in a wreck dont get reimbursed. Do you think that this would need to change if the wreck became the belonging of the killer in a fight?
I've only been reimbursed ONCE in-game ... AND that was OVER 3.5 years ago. I forget the situation BUT was given my ship back BUT not the modules.
At the time I thought it was fair ... AND still do.
So are you asking .. IF i kill a person ... they get reimbursed the ship for what ever reason ... AND i get the loot drop ... should it get taken away from me??
TOO many IFs here ... i would guess it should be a case by case decision.
I have no clues on how many petitions AND follow up reimbursements ... so dont know how much it would bog the GMs down to use thier discretion.
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
romie kelso
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:13:00 -
[56]
shoot if i don't have to run a care bare toon im all down
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romierome
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:15:00 -
[57]
sorry this is my real self not romie kelso
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Opposed because the OP has failed to outline both the present mechanics and the proposed change to the mechanics in clear terms.
Nice alt
Nice ass.
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:09:00 -
[59]
Yea it makes sense. If you make the kill then the can should belong to you. And flag the same way cans flag now with jet cans or rat droppings.
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Why'dyou HitMe
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:12:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Why''dyou HitMe on 24/05/2008 04:12:15
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Opposed because the OP has failed to outline both the present mechanics and the proposed change to the mechanics in clear terms.
you're an idiot
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Kailiani
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:31:00 -
[61]
/signed only after insurance is removed from suicide gankers so actually they risk something trying to get that deadspace mod.
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:17:00 -
[62]
/EPICLY SIGNED
After a major fight in low security space, a bunch of newb players with names such as "renxng" and "w00woo" in newb ships started taking from our wrecks. This got annoying as we had lost ships and wanted to get the loot back to help the pilots that lost ships. We were unable to do so because they went to the wrecks before our GCC cane off and we were able to safely collect the said loot.
~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Conrad Rock
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:31:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Conrad Rock on 24/05/2008 05:33:48 Don't agree.
Pickpocketing is a crime of necessity, and the perpetrators don't deserve death.
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 06:33:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Conrad Rock Edited by: Conrad Rock on 24/05/2008 05:33:48 Don't agree.
Pickpocketing is a crime of necessity, and the perpetrators don't deserve death.
you cant just sit there and say that if someone took your wallet and you saw it, you wouldnt walk right up to them and kick the living **** out of them. ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Lilith Wolf
Temporary Stasis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 06:39:00 -
[65]
/signed
You guys opposing this, ever thought of what happens when Faction Warfare comes ?
Fighting in empire and every time you kill someone, your loot got stolen and you can do nothing about it.
Maybe we should change the name to LOOT THIEF AGE instead of EMPYREAN AGE.
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Aykiria
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:59:00 -
[66]
Cant see any negative impact on gameplay involved in letting either side of a conflict shoot parasites stealing from the remains of either sides ships (lets face it, they often start looting before the battle is even decided). Not only would it give the involved parties a chance to retaliate against thievery, but it would also prevent swarms of ships literally hugging targets currently involed in a fight (i am NOT proposing shooting inncent bystanders in any shape or form, but if they had to take a risk to grab the loot, fewer of those vultures would inhabit the movements of fighting people). Lets face it, if you start a fight in any major hub, theres upto half a dozen frigates/cruisers/haulers trying to get as close as possible to grab something, in the process making navigation a pain, if not impossible. The current situation can be compared with the following: two combatants are duking it out, while the fight is raging, a handful of random people just run straight into the fray, shoving the combatants and eachother around, trying to be as close as possible to grab something. As soon as one of the fighters gets the upper hand and wins, they rip the armor/weapons/clothes and whatever else of the corpse, without any reprecussion, BUT if the survivor of the fight does as much as scratch one of the scavengers, he gets struck down instantly by some kind of divine intervention. This neither sounds logic, nor does it make for an enjoyable game mechanic in my opinion.
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Conrad Rock
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.24 10:47:00 -
[67]
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Conrad Rock Edited by: Conrad Rock on 24/05/2008 05:33:48 Don't agree.
Pickpocketing is a crime of necessity, and the perpetrators don't deserve death.
you cant just sit there and say that if someone took your wallet and you saw it, you wouldnt walk right up to them and kick the living **** out of them.
You would be arrested and charged of aggravated assault in any civilized nation like Canada, US, Britain, France, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Australia, etc...
You are clearly wrong.
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Conrad Rock Don't agree.
Pickpocketing is a crime of necessity, and the perpetrators don't deserve death.
I'm NOT asking for death ... Criminal Flagging DOES NOT ALLOW POD KILLING
You ARE clearly wrong ....
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:36:00 -
[69]
No support... It's bad enough that concord condones players stealing from NPC alliances.
And regarding dual ownership: What if the original pilot's alt or friend loots the wreck, you're going to be allowed to shoot them? ---
Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice. |
Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:37:00 -
[70]
Originally by: The Jackhammer Hey BRAINIAC .. thats what this forum is for ... TRYING to create change where people feel the rules need to be 'adjusted' ...
We've been exposed to your 'insightful' opinion now ... so please run along to ANOTHER thread ...
NOTED: Thats 1 more vote against ..
CAPS does NOT make you SMART Though yeah, I guess I am a brainiac compared to... others
And I'll stay in this thread just to again point out the absurdity of wanting to have other people flagged to you for stealing the victims stuff faster than you could steal it. Yes when you blow up a wreck, the dropped loot still belong to the victim. When you take it, you steal it. When a third party take it, he steals it. Flags should go to anyone not the owner of the stuff (or his corp), not between competing thieves.
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:42:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab And regarding dual ownership: What if the original pilot's alt or friend loots the wreck, you're going to be allowed to shoot them?
Yes ... same as can looting.
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
Crimsonjade
B.D.S.M. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:10:00 -
[72]
This is long overdue. hard enough to catch someone at times, but to have someone else take the loot is aggravating as hell
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BC Hastings
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:12:00 -
[73]
Edited by: BC Hastings on 24/05/2008 13:14:32 As of right now this is a no risk profession. The objects being taken are being taken from a dead guy, no risk. There should be risk with the reward. The last no risk profession (Ore Theft) has risk now, this should be no different.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 San Matari.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:48:00 -
[74]
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Conrad Rock Edited by: Conrad Rock on 24/05/2008 05:33:48 Don't agree.
Pickpocketing is a crime of necessity, and the perpetrators don't deserve death.
you cant just sit there and say that if someone took your wallet and you saw it, you wouldnt walk right up to them and kick the living **** out of them.
Only that it isn't your wallet...
San Matari Official forums |
Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.05.24 15:42:00 -
[75]
It is in fact the wallet of some guy you just beat the crap out of. There is no real life analogy from the civilized world that matches the demand of this thread.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.05.24 16:02:00 -
[76]
Quote: 2. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND to the person who 'Layed the final blow'
Even though I enjoy it when the likes of Privateers have their loot stolen from under them, this notion seems fairly reasonable to me. Flagging to the original owner, while making sense, has virtually no practical ingame effect anyway, so this would add at least some risk to the pickpockets.
Make suicide ganking more difficult!
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 16:04:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Why'dyou HitMe Edited by: Why''dyou HitMe on 24/05/2008 04:12:15
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Opposed because the OP has failed to outline both the present mechanics and the proposed change to the mechanics in clear terms.
you're an idiot
Convincing argument you have there.
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Tusko Hopkins
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.24 16:53:00 -
[78]
I support this change.
First alternate to CSM.
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JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.24 22:16:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Sigul Siento It is in fact the wallet of some guy you just beat the crap out of. There is no real life analogy from the civilized world that matches the demand of this thread.
Oh really? No real life anology? Let me paint a quick picture then.. In RL, you see a very large angry man bristiling with guns all over him, including the red hot smoking gun in his hand, hes standing over the corps of one of 4 gentelman hes just had a 'disscussion' with and is going thru the pockets of the first guy, the one closest to him.
Do you decide to beat him to the second corps and start tearing thru the pockets? Not if self preservations high on your prioritys your not. Why? Because any moron can see the ovious threat here and KNOWs if they take this guys stuff, they will be laying next to the other 4.. Eve hasnt got that risk vs reward built in atm..
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PR0D AK71V
Mad Hamster Infestation
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Posted - 2008.05.24 22:36:00 -
[80]
/signed
make it flagable to attacker/victim and all will be good |
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Gwendion
No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.25 02:28:00 -
[81]
I whole heartily support this. 100% 101% even! Wait, thats not possible.. -----------------------------------
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.25 16:27:00 -
[82]
LOL You Are Joking Right?
Dude you are pirates using in game mechanics to get easy kills in high sec. You get to practice your craft while Concord looks the other way (for a fee). If you want the right to shoot neutrals that loot your kills I will give you the same advice that is given to Mission runners mad about loosing their salvage:
Get Out Of High Sec You Carebear!!
You want your cake and eat it too.
Following Priva-tear's gank squads around using their kill boards used to be a cottage industry. That is perhaps one reason the alliance took it down. Touche. Seems leadership back then was too proud to whine on forums about this issue. Instead the took steps to try and fix it on their own. So now the loot thieves have found new ways to follow you around. I applaud them for creating a new profession- Vultures
Pirates grief carebears in high sec with war decs to get easy kills and loot drops. Vultures grief pirates in high sec by legally taking the fruit of the kill before the pirate can claim it. Hmm sounds good to me.
If you are having trouble making isk from High Sec war decs you have options:
1. coordinate your gangs better and have a dedicated looter/salvager 2. move to low sec and kill everything (take a sec hit like other pirates do) 3. create an alt to make isk and pirate just for the pure fun of it instead of making isk from it. 4. choose a new profession all together as you SUCK at pirating.
Stop trying to make high sec into low sec or 0.0. Follow the advice you give carebears. 0.0 is the place where miners, ratters, mission runners and even Real Pirates make more isk and have game mechanics that support defending themselves and their spoils with no consequence.
STOP KILLING CAREBEARS. GROW A PAIR. MOVE TO 0.0!
Rant off/
Good Day
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.25 17:57:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Patri Andari LOL You Are Joking Right?
Dude you are pirates using in game mechanics to get easy kills in high sec. You get to practice your craft while Concord looks the other way (for a fee). If you want the right to shoot neutrals that loot your kills I will give you the same advice that is given to Mission runners mad about loosing their salvage:
Get Out Of High Sec You Carebear!!
You want your cake and eat it too.
Following Priva-tear's gank squads around using their kill boards used to be a cottage industry. That is perhaps one reason the alliance took it down. Touche. Seems leadership back then was too proud to whine on forums about this issue. Instead the took steps to try and fix it on their own. So now the loot thieves have found new ways to follow you around. I applaud them for creating a new profession- Vultures
Pirates grief carebears in high sec with war decs to get easy kills and loot drops. Vultures grief pirates in high sec by legally taking the fruit of the kill before the pirate can claim it. Hmm sounds good to me.
If you are having trouble making isk from High Sec war decs you have options:
1. coordinate your gangs better and have a dedicated looter/salvager 2. move to low sec and kill everything (take a sec hit like other pirates do) 3. create an alt to make isk and pirate just for the pure fun of it instead of making isk from it. 4. choose a new profession all together as you SUCK at pirating.
Stop trying to make high sec into low sec or 0.0. Follow the advice you give carebears. 0.0 is the place where miners, ratters, mission runners and even Real Pirates make more isk and have game mechanics that support defending themselves and their spoils with no consequence.
STOP KILLING CAREBEARS. GROW A PAIR. MOVE TO 0.0!
Rant off/
Good Day
Spoken like a TRUE douche bag ... being in privateers has NOTHING to do with this .. except giving you a point to base your useless banter on ...
You're kidding my right? ....
YOU SHOULD TALK ... hugging an NPC corp for WELL over a year .. grow some BALLS and post with your main ...
IF this is your main .. JUST grow some balls
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
ellie mayer
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:01:00 -
[84]
Thought he made a very good point myself......
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:11:00 -
[85]
Originally by: ellie mayer Thought he made a very good point myself......
cool you've shown us your other alt .. thankyou
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
ellie mayer
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:15:00 -
[86]
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: ellie mayer Thought he made a very good point myself......
cool you've shown us your other alt .. thankyou
Cool you just made a tit out of you're self, Not his alt....
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:17:00 -
[87]
Originally by: ellie mayer
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: ellie mayer Thought he made a very good point myself......
cool you've shown us your other alt .. thankyou
Cool you just made a tit out of you're self, Not his alt....
just keeping the thread in the public view so it gets the attention it needs ... you're dismissed
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
ellie mayer
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 18:20:00 -
[88]
Originally by: The PitBossjust keeping the thread in the public view so it gets the attention it needs ... you're dismissed[/quote
Well done, posting 2 mins after me has saved it from dropping to the 2nd page !!!
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The RedPlague
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:24:00 -
[89]
Edited by: The RedPlague on 25/05/2008 18:24:24
Originally by: ellie mayer just keeping the thread in the public view so it gets the attention it needs ... you're dismissed
Well done, posting 2 mins after me has saved it from dropping to the 2nd page !!!
JESUS .. contribute to the thread or STFU
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:37:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Patri Andari on 25/05/2008 18:44:39
Originally by: The PitBoss Venom and (Priva) Tears
Being in this Noob Corp has taught me a few things. I shall pass them on:
*Mining in high sec has lower risks and lower rewards than mining in 0.0
*Ratting in high sec has lower risks and lower rewards than ratting in 0.0
*Missioning, exploration, and POS ownership also follow this line of reasoning.
Should pirating in High sec, which has less risk, be as profitable while less stressful than pirating in 0.0 or low sec? I think not.
The only complaint I have seen to challenge mechanics similar to your whine is when high sec missioners complained about loosing their salvage to enterprising salvagers. The eve community seemed to beat the whiners in to submission with the very advice I gave you. Get out of high sec, kill them all and let God sort 'em out. Or stay in high sec and put up with loosing some of your loot. Either way just do not cry
You want Pirating in High sec to be as profitable as Pirating in 0.0 or low sec with minimal risk to security or loosing your booty. ( heh, I said booty)
Your Dec fees entitle you to kill in high sec and risk being killed without Concord interference. All the while Concord protects you from any unknown (read undeclared) enemies. Sweet deal. You also get the opportunity to make some isk if loot drops and you get there first. Your Dec fees do not give you the right to loot and salvage in peace and without competition. I think this is a good thing.
I was going to post some relevant maritime law to further enforce my position but, meh.
Thinking of writing a guide on how to create a griefer, err enterprising character quickly to use following empire pirates around and salvage/loot their kills. How to set OV, corp standings and some setups to be effective. Could inspire a corp like "Suddenly Ninjas" to pop up. Hell I may even start a business to sell Locator Agent services for cheap just to get them started.
Hmm...even if you loose several frigs or dessies in the process it just takes thieving one or two faction items to pay for the losses. I may be on to something here.
I never knew how much of a thorn this was in your side. Thanks for the inspiration, Muse
Patri
edit: Less sarcasm now, no really.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:46:00 -
[91]
Originally by: JVol
Oh really? No real life anology? Let me paint a quick picture then.. In RL, you see a very large angry man bristiling with guns all over him, including the red hot smoking gun in his hand, hes standing over the corps of one of 4 gentelman hes just had a 'disscussion' with and is going thru the pockets of the first guy, the one closest to him.
Do you decide to beat him to the second corps and start tearing thru the pockets? Not if self preservations high on your prioritys your not. Why? Because any moron can see the ovious threat here and KNOWs if they take this guys stuff, they will be laying next to the other 4.. Eve hasnt got that risk vs reward built in atm..
You are describing a situation where a rabid criminal has murdered several people and is about to steal their stuff. The killing was illegal, rooting through their pockets is illegal, and as a third party, rooting through the pockets of murder victims is illegal. Real life concord would want to tow you in for the stealing, and probably kill you for the murders if you were still armed and not in the mood for surrender. Transfer this to EVE and you would be concorded long before you had the chance to look through anybodys pocket. In real life, if you kill or disable someone "legally" in self defence or as a soldier in war, you still don't get any rights to his personal property.
Real life analogies are often flawed in comparison with games, as yours is, and also beside the point; a cheap tool for those who can't argue their point in the relevant context, which is that of the game world.
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.25 19:03:00 -
[92]
Originally by: The PitBoss .. grow some BALLS and post with your main ...
IF this is your main .. JUST grow some balls
Grow your own balls. Post with your industry, mining or research alt. We ALL know you have them. You certainly are not making any isk pirating.
BTW I may be in the market for a freighter BPC in the near future. Any referrals?
Patri
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Mjeh
STRONG POLITIK
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Posted - 2008.05.25 20:48:00 -
[93]
death to vultures
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:56:00 -
[94]
Once the devs sit down and talk about this it will change, no doubt in my mind. With faction warfare comming, carebears venturing out into spoon fed pvp, THEY are gonna want their loot. The same guys putting up lame, stereo typical responces "go to 0.0 to pvp" or "grief this and grief that" will be screaming their fool heads off for change. Ya know what?? THEY WILL GET IT TOO!! Dev's in the end ALWAYS lean to the carebear side, so worst case we'llneed to wait for the screams of carebears... can ya hear them? I can
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:24:00 -
[95]
/signed.
Must be extremely annoying in high-sec.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
AtomizerX
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:49:00 -
[96]
I can't say I support this issue, but I see where some of you are coming from. A player's wreck is his own, which is different from NPC wrecks. In order for the suggested mechanic to work you'd have to change ownership of a player's wreck to the attacker(s). I don't necessarily support that either, but I think it would make sense if that was the case for wrecks belonging to players who initiated aggression; if you are attacked first and destroyed your wreck should only belong to yourself.
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Arges
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 04:11:00 -
[97]
This really needs to be changed and this thread gets my full support.
Obviously, the wreck belongs primarily to the pilot of the ship but those who killed it in a legal situation should also have ownership rights to it. As it has been mentioned many times already, simply giving ownership status to the pilots on the killmail or to the one with the final blow would pretty much settle the issue. ------------------------------ Arges
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.26 04:37:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Patri Andari on 26/05/2008 04:40:37
Originally by: Cpt Branko /signed.
Must be extremely easy..err annoying in high-sec.
There. Fixed that for ya
Piracy in high sec should be either less rewarding than piracy in low or null sec or come with its own brand of hassles. There are fewer risks. If a few vultures picking at your carcasses is that hard to handle, try dodging gate guns while you loot. Then again I am sure you have already, did not like it and came to live in the luxury of high sec. Must say I am a bit surprised to see actual risk takers (read, Real Pirates) support this.
Do not seem to recall much of this support when missioners complained about loosing wrecks/salvage in a very similar fashion. But then again I guess birds of a feather YARR together.
Patri
edit: spaleing
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.26 06:38:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Patri Andari ...Piracy ...piracy ... Real Pirates......
ummm i dont think you GET what we're actually talking about here... It's NOT about piracy... It's about when you kill a wartarget and some noob comes up and takes **** from your epic battle.
"piracy" in highsec is can flipping, and suicide destroying. Each of which when they kill their victims they have another chr to scoop the loot. ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.26 07:32:00 -
[100]
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Patri Andari ...Piracy ...piracy ... Real Pirates......
ummm i dont think you GET what we're actually talking about here... It's NOT about piracy... It's about when you kill a wartarget and some noob comes up and takes **** from your epic battle.
"piracy" in highsec is can flipping, and suicide destroying. Each of which when they kill their victims they have another chr to scoop the loot.
OBJECTION!
It is certainly about piracy, high sec piracy. Something your corp does not engage in nor has need to since your kills and losses are almost exclusively in null or low sec. But just for you, I shall call it high sec war.
High sec war (fart)is mostly promulgated for 2 reasons: 1. Merc contracts to settle a score or hurt competitors or 2.... legalized piracy (sorry had to say the word). I have yet to see any true Mercenary characters championing this cause. No sir, this issue is being championed by those who wish the profits low sec piracy in the luxury of high sec.
Now that I think about it, it is perhaps you who is unenlightened if you do not see exactly what is going on here. Waring factions in 0.0 or low sec have no need for mechanics to establish their claim to loot and wrecks. They rule by the gun as they should. Podding is expected and cursed is anyone who dares to steal loot. In high sec the rules are different and they should be.
Any other group that wines to make high sec life similar to the benefits of 0.0 and you guys bring out the "STFU Carebear" or "Grow a pair and come to low/null sec" references. Just because this issue helps benefit a groups that do PVP in high sec instead of any other profession and it is okay?
The emperor has no clothes!
Patri
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.26 07:59:00 -
[101]
Originally by: The Jackhammer
Originally by: Piitaq Yeah its frustrating to see someone else steal your hard work, without being able to do anything about it!
I know just how you feel!
Problem is people just laugh when carebears get ripped off, but whines when PvPer does
Ohh the hypocracy
Difference being .. when a carebear gets his ore stolen ...
1. He can shoot the FLAGGED thief
2. HIS CORPMATES can shoot the FLAGGED thief
PVPers have NO repercussions ... they have to sit there AND watch thier work run off ..
Originally by: Dav Varan No.
Wreck belongs to Victim.
Grow a pair and PVP in low sec / null sec rather than high sec suicide ganking then you can shoot anyone who goes for the loot.
Concord should not support suicide gankers.
What about LEGAL war targets? ... I'm in no way supporting OR condemning suicide gankers ...
Originally by: Sigul Siento .... I haven't seen anywhere any rule saying that a war dec gives the dec'er rights to the property of the dec'ee ....
Hey BRAINIAC .. thats what this forum is for ... TRYING to create change where people feel the rules need to be 'adjusted' ...
We've been exposed to your 'insightful' opinion now ... so please run along to ANOTHER thread ...
NOTED: Thats 1 more vote against ..
There is a little point you are conveniently forgetting: if one of the friends in the same corporation of the target recover the loot, with your system it will get flagged to you and your corporation (we all know how can/wreck looting work). That will be surly wonderful for people suicide ganking in high sec, as the friends of the killers will have free targets if the corpmates of the original ship owners try to recover the loot. Not so wonderful for the target and friends.
So it is a clear no as it will primarily help high sec ganking, a profession that is already too much supported.
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:02:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Patri Andari
It is certainly about piracy, high sec piracy. Something your corp does not engage in nor has need to since your kills and losses are almost exclusively in null or low sec. But just for you, I shall call it high sec war.
Actually, we are at war and have had many war decs... and had the people we are at war with even send mercs after us.
And on the note of Low Sec Wars, The reason for the war dec in lowsec is generally so you dont lose sec status, so you can go to empire still. And when noobs come in and start looting wrecks of people you killed after a major battle, you can not just kill them... as they just keep coming like ants, while you're quickly making your way down to -5.
The killrights help solve this as you can kill them w/o losing any sec status!
and next time you begin to say stuff about a corp/alliance i hope you do your research next time.
ps... IT"S NOT PIRACY IF THERE IS A WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:05:00 -
[103]
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Patri Andari ...Piracy ...piracy ... Real Pirates......
ummm i dont think you GET what we're actually talking about here... It's NOT about piracy... It's about when you kill a wartarget and some noob comes up and takes **** from your epic battle.
"piracy" in highsec is can flipping, and suicide destroying. Each of which when they kill their victims they have another chr to scoop the loot.
I think you are missing some of the point of what you are suggesting. A change in wreck ownership will not influence only "legit wartarget" or other legal targets. It will influence all ownership rules, thus giving a further boost to high sec suicide ganking.
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:10:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I think you are missing some of the point of what you are suggesting. A change in wreck ownership will not influence only "legit wartarget" or other legal targets. It will influence all ownership rules, thus giving a further boost to high sec suicide ganking.
ok, so leme see if i get what you're saying
Person 1 suicide ganks person 2. With the new idea implimented, the wreck would be person 1's. Person 1 loses his ship, ummm well, he can't really do anything about people that take the loot can he... Can't exactly dock and get a new ship due to 15min GCC.... His alt hauler that is most likely sitting by him would have to scoop the wreck. and will prolly do so faster than anyone can get to the wreck and take it.
so i dont really see HOW it would giving a boost to suicide destroying... ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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dark'illuminati
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:21:00 -
[105]
Good idea, should have been implemented a long time ago. Fully agree. |
Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:45:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Patri Andari on 26/05/2008 08:51:26
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Patri Andari
It is certainly about piracy, high sec piracy. Something your corp does not engage in nor has need to since your kills and losses are almost exclusively in null or low sec. But just for you, I shall call it high sec war.
Actually, we are at war and have had many war decs... and had the people we are at war with even send mercs after us.
And on the note of Low Sec Wars, The reason for the war dec in lowsec is generally so you dont lose sec status, so you can go to empire still. And when noobs come in and start looting wrecks of people you killed after a major battle, you can not just kill them... as they just keep coming like ants, while you're quickly making your way down to -5.
The killrights help solve this as you can kill them w/o losing any sec status!
and next time you begin to say stuff about a corp/alliance i hope you do your research next time.
ps... IT"S NOT PIRACY IF THERE IS A WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I shall attempt to meet you where you are. You get benefits from declaring the war and those benefits give you certain privileges in high sec,(some you have enumerated above) but they also come with restrictions and hassles. It is after all different than low sec or null sec so this makes sense.
Congratulations! You have just paid Concord War fees!
Here is what you get:
1. the right to blow up war targets- In high sec 2. the right to pod war targets- In high sec 3. the right commit the above without interference from Concord or Sentry fire- In high sec 4. the right to commit the above without loss of security status - In high sec
Here is what you do not get:
1. the right to harm neutrals- In high sec 2. the right to use AOE weapons without consequence- In high sec 3. the right to free and unobstructed looting and salvaging of war target wrecks - In high sec
For these and other fine benefits we are sorry but you have to get your a** out of high sec or figure out a work around.
Thank you!
P.S. IT'S NOT CHEATING IF YOU DON'T GET CAUGHT!!!!? Or something like that.
edit: spaleing
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:53:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Patri Andari
For these and other fine benefits we are sorry but you have to get your ass out of high sec or figure out a work around.
this has nothing to do with the discussion about the proposed ideas. please refrain from posting such remarks.
Originally by: Patri Andari
1. the right to harm neutrals- In high sec
they souldnt be neutral if they take from your kill's wreck. that's exactly what this topic is about..... ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.05.26 09:04:00 -
[108]
Oh God some people are dense :-)
I love how you make PvE and PvP equal when it suits your cause.
NOT supported (there should be a not-supported checkbox and final score on each thread heading).
You are already commiting and aggressive act (be it with or without wardec) and you want more protection for yourself. Not going to happen. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Lt Angus
Wicked Crew
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:38:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka Oh God some people are dense :-)
I love how you make PvE and PvP equal when it suits your cause.
NOT supported (there should be a not-supported checkbox and final score on each thread heading).
You are already commiting and aggressive act (be it with or without wardec) and you want more protection for yourself. Not going to happen.
and you call them dense, re read the thread, might take a few times
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Temitten
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:41:00 -
[110]
It makes sense
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:01:00 -
[111]
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I think you are missing some of the point of what you are suggesting. A change in wreck ownership will not influence only "legit wartarget" or other legal targets. It will influence all ownership rules, thus giving a further boost to high sec suicide ganking.
ok, so leme see if i get what you're saying
Person 1 suicide ganks person 2. With the new idea implimented, the wreck would be person 1's. Person 1 loses his ship, ummm well, he can't really do anything about people that take the loot can he... Can't exactly dock and get a new ship due to 15min GCC.... His alt hauler that is most likely sitting by him would have to scoop the wreck. and will prolly do so faster than anyone can get to the wreck and take it.
so i dont really see HOW it would giving a boost to suicide destroying...
Very simple, and I think you are trolling or very naive if you don't see it:
Alt in hauler is in the same corp of the ganker, he loot the wreck, thje wreck belong to a member of his corporation, so he has no aggression timer toward anyone, including the corp of the original owner.
So even if the original owner was an escorted freighter or industrial the escort can't retaliate against the one scooping the loot.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:02:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 26/05/2008 12:03:37 duble post
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.26 15:15:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Alt in hauler is in the same corp of the ganker, he loot the wreck, thje wreck belong to a member of his corporation, so he has no aggression timer toward anyone, including the corp of the original owner.
So even if the original owner was an escorted freighter or industrial the escort can't retaliate against the one scooping the loot.
Solution was already proposed; dual ownership. Meaning, both the victim and the killer get kill rights when a third party scoops loot. A freighter scooping loot is technically the third party (everyone actually on the KM is blown up) and therefore gets flagged to the attackers (which were concorded) and the victim (which wasn't). If you give ownership ONLY to the people on the killmail, sucide gankers don't get to fire on third party stealing loot because, well, they're out of ships for the next 15 minutes, while the escort still can. So it doesn't help suiciders at all.
Who it does help are people fighting wars. I imagine it's a huge pain for them atm.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Dharden Vehr
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:31:00 -
[114]
I support the decision to have this issued addressed
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Tai Paktu
Mortis Incarnatus
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:59:00 -
[115]
This idea, I'm supporting it. ______
http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG |
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:11:00 -
[116]
Supportin dis
-- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
Aadi Grox
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:15:00 -
[117]
if you have ever pvped in high sec, then you want this
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:34:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: The PitBoss .. grow some BALLS and post with your main ...
IF this is your main .. JUST grow some balls
Grow your own balls. Post with your industry, mining or research alt. We ALL know you have them. You certainly are not making any isk pirating.
BTW I may be in the market for a freighter BPC in the near future. Any referrals?
Patri
Sorry, couldn't resist :x
Quote: Marchant LaCroix > go get yerself some Cajones mr rooker. * Rooker cuts off marchant's ******* with a spork Rooker > ok, now what? * Marchant LaCroix takes his cajones back and staples them in place. Marchant LaCroix > get yer own ya lazy begger.
-- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:04:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 26/05/2008 19:06:47
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Alt in hauler is in the same corp of the ganker, he loot the wreck, thje wreck belong to a member of his corporation, so he has no aggression timer toward anyone, including the corp of the original owner.
So even if the original owner was an escorted freighter or industrial the escort can't retaliate against the one scooping the loot.
Solution was already proposed; dual ownership. Meaning, both the victim and the killer get kill rights when a third party scoops loot. A freighter scooping loot is technically the third party (everyone actually on the KM is blown up) and therefore gets flagged to the attackers (which were concorded) and the victim (which wasn't). If you give ownership ONLY to the people on the killmail, sucide gankers don't get to fire on third party stealing loot because, well, they're out of ships for the next 15 minutes, while the escort still can. So it doesn't help suiciders at all.
Who it does help are people fighting wars. I imagine it's a huge pain for them atm.
I.E. redo completely ownership (currently there is no dual ownership), hope it work, get it so that if a people with ownership of a wreck take from it get aggressed to other people with ownership, make it select what is the right people the one taking the stuff is aggressed only against the right group, hope it all work flawless to make happy the people that want to wardec in empire.
No thanks, for that level of work we can have the drones redone so they work flawlessy or half of a big expansion.
This point in particular If you give ownership ONLY to the people on the killmail, sucide gankers don't get to fire on third party stealing loot because, well, they're out of ships for the next 15 minutes, while the escort still can. So it doesn't help suiciders at all is wrong from the start. What it will do to all the other wreck ownership rules? "My corpmate ship was destroyed I will recover the loot. What, I can't tractor it, I will have a aggression flag if I take from it? Opps I am not on the killmail."
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:26:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
It can seem nitpicking, but that is what the developers need to program before it can work, so clearing all those little problem will take ages of developement.
umm.. isnt that what sisi is for. so the programers can test and make it work before it hits TQ.
""My corpmate ship was destroyed I will recover the loot. What, I can't tractor it, I will have a aggression flag if I take from it? Opps I am not on the killmail.""
dual ownership.. he will be able to tractor it and the agression flag wont matter cause if suicided, the party on the km cant do ****, and if war dec... well they shouldn't be looting until the field is clear, so the other party wont be able to do anything anyways. ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.26 20:06:00 -
[121]
There exist solutions to the problem of loosing wartarget loot and wrecks to neutral parties in high sec already. High sec gankers have proven this. Have a dedicated player loot and salvage. An alt is perfect for this and it does not require rewriting the mechanics and programing of the game which further confuse the aggression rules. You have the advantage over the vulture in knowing where your camps are set up so you should be prepared to act first. It is a race and you have a head start.
Now of course it would be a lot easier for many to have a change like this. No one wants to devote a character slot for salvage and looting when it could be used in more fun and exciting ways. But it should not be easy especially in high sec empire. This game promotes teamwork and organization if nothing else. It should not be easy for a single player or even a group to achieve all its goals without coordination and tactics.
Any change in game mechanics that makes it more profitable to do something in high sec than it already is or than it is in 0.0 runs counter to the goals CCP seems to have for this game, i.e. encouraging players to move out to 0.0 for better returns. We do not need better ore, agents, complexes or looting rights in high sec.
In short, no need to muddy the waters with such a change. Put a low SP alt in a hauler or a dessie, give him some nav skills and all is good.
Patri
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 20:42:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Patri Andari There exist solutions to the problem of loosing wartarget loot and wrecks to neutral parties in high sec already. High sec gankers have proven this. Have a dedicated player loot and salvage. An alt is perfect for this and it does not require rewriting the mechanics and programing of the game which further confuse the aggression rules. You have the advantage over the vulture in knowing where your camps are set up so you should be prepared to act first. It is a race and you have a head start.
Now of course it would be a lot easier for many to have a change like this. No one wants to devote a character slot for salvage and looting when it could be used in more fun and exciting ways. But it should not be easy especially in high sec empire. This game promotes teamwork and organization if nothing else. It should not be easy for a single player or even a group to achieve all its goals without coordination and tactics.
Any change in game mechanics that makes it more profitable to do something in high sec than it already is or than it is in 0.0 runs counter to the goals CCP seems to have for this game, i.e. encouraging players to move out to 0.0 for better returns. We do not need better ore, agents, complexes or looting rights in high sec.
In short, no need to muddy the waters with such a change. Put a low SP alt in a hauler or a dessie, give him some nav skills and all is good.
Patri
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.26 22:25:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Patri Andari There exist solutions to the problem of loosing wartarget loot and wrecks to neutral parties in high sec already. High sec gankers have proven this. Have a dedicated player loot and salvage. An alt is perfect for this and it does not require rewriting the mechanics and programing of the game which further confuse the aggression rules. You have the advantage over the vulture in knowing where your camps are set up so you should be prepared to act first. It is a race and you have a head start.
Now of course it would be a lot easier for many to have a change like this. No one wants to devote a character slot for salvage and looting when it could be used in more fun and exciting ways. But it should not be easy especially in high sec empire. This game promotes teamwork and organization if nothing else. It should not be easy for a single player or even a group to achieve all its goals without coordination and tactics.
Any change in game mechanics that makes it more profitable to do something in high sec than it already is or than it is in 0.0 runs counter to the goals CCP seems to have for this game, i.e. encouraging players to move out to 0.0 for better returns. We do not need better ore, agents, complexes or looting rights in high sec.
In short, no need to muddy the waters with such a change. Put a low SP alt in a hauler or a dessie, give him some nav skills and all is good.
Patri
do you even think before you post or even re-read what you type? cause you are sounding like a total dumbass atm, and are promoting that EVERYONE who wants to have fun in Highsec to have an alt and to go to 00... ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.26 23:25:00 -
[124]
Originally by: aUTOKILL
do you even think before you post or even re-read what you type? cause you are sounding like a total dumbass atm,
Hardly a dumb ass. But I see logic is not everyones strong point. What I am and most of you seem not to be is Consistent.
Consistent:
1. in agreement or harmony; in accord; compatible deeds not consistent with his words 2. holding always to the same principles or practice consistent behavior
I do not think PVP should be shown favor in High sec over any other endeavor in EVE when it comes to being profitable.
Whether it be mining, missioning, ratting or even, dare I say it, PVP, the endeavor should not be as profitable to do in High sec as it is in 0.0. You know, the whole risk v. rewards thing.
Originally by: aUTOKILL
and are promoting that EVERYONE who wants to have fun in Highsec to have an alt and to go to 00...
See here is where your breakdown in consistency starts. Have all the fun you want. Blow things to high heaven, I do not care. It is the profit of your behavior that should not be improved.
I shall joust with windmills 1 more time before I tire:
Mining in high sec limits you to lower grade ore (less profits for less risk) Missioning in high sec limits you to lower levels of LP and pay (less profits for less risk) Ratting...etc.. (I hope you are getting this by now)
Then comes the golden child: PVP. It can be profitable and you can have fun doing it. But if you do it in High sec you have less risks. (I do hope you are still following as I have lowered the bar as much as I can). The race to secure loot from others while having no recourse other than speed is unique to High sec. It is one of the very few mechanisms (along with graduated war dec fees) that governs the profitability of PVP in high sec.
Giving flagging rights to the one who destroys a player's ship would create an imbalance IMHO and is a very slippery slope. Still a lil amazed to see pirates...err pvp'ers cry for special economic treatment IN HIGH SEC.
Patri
P.S. If you stay civil so shall I.
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.26 23:51:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: aUTOKILL
do you even think before you post or even re-read what you type? cause you are sounding like a total dumbass atm,
Hardly a dumb ass. But I see logic is not everyones strong point. What I am and most of you seem not to be is Consistent.
Consistent:
1. in agreement or harmony; in accord; compatible deeds not consistent with his words 2. holding always to the same principles or practice consistent behavior
I do not think PVP should be shown favor in High sec over any other endeavor in EVE when it comes to being profitable.
Whether it be mining, missioning, ratting or even, dare I say it, PVP, the endeavor should not be as profitable to do in High sec as it is in 0.0. You know, the whole risk v. rewards thing.
Originally by: aUTOKILL
and are promoting that EVERYONE who wants to have fun in Highsec to have an alt and to go to 00...
See here is where your breakdown in consistency starts. Have all the fun you want. Blow things to high heaven, I do not care. It is the profit of your behavior that should not be improved.
I shall joust with windmills 1 more time before I tire:
Mining in high sec limits you to lower grade ore (less profits for less risk) Missioning in high sec limits you to lower levels of LP and pay (less profits for less risk) Ratting...etc.. (I hope you are getting this by now)
Then comes the golden child: PVP. It can be profitable and you can have fun doing it. But if you do it in High sec you have less risks. (I do hope you are still following as I have lowered the bar as much as I can). The race to secure loot from others while having no recourse other than speed is unique to High sec. It is one of the very few mechanisms (along with graduated war dec fees) that governs the profitability of PVP in high sec.
Giving flagging rights to the one who destroys a player's ship would create an imbalance IMHO and is a very slippery slope. Still a lil amazed to see pirates...err pvp'ers cry for special economic treatment IN HIGH SEC.
Patri
P.S. If you stay civil so shall I.
Dude!! GTF off of the ' high sec' soap box. Maybe if you keep stateing over and over how 'real pvpers' just pvp in 0.0 and low sec this whole topic will just slink away ??
You keep saying the 'risk vs reward' line.. Like high sec has any less risk than low sec when talking about war decs or faction warfare? When 5 war targets have you scrambled,webbed and neuted, does it REALLY matter what sec the damn system is? No, your dead, did they work any less to nab you? NO. Did they risk LESS because of the systems sec? NO, My death in this secereo would be just as hard on my wallet regardless of the sec of the syatem. I was involved, they were involved, vultures shouldnt be involved, WITHOUT risk, and you KNOW it.
The OP NEVER said that this is JUST a high sec issue, its an EVE issue. Your same argument couldve been said to the guys who wanted jet cans to belong to them and have rights to those who steal, or mission runners who want the loot thats theirs.
....also, all your talk of profit in high sec, the current flagging system ISNT there to limit war decs profitability in high sec you ass, its just a broken system. How would it harm the game for the vultures to occasionally have some risk when STEALING? Its not like the proposed changes STOP them from being able to steal, just makes it how it should be, risky
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.27 00:09:00 -
[126]
Originally by: JVol vultures... risk when STEALING? Its not like the proposed changes STOP them from being able to steal, just makes it how it should be, risky
exactly! Right now, they dont have to risk anything and can get great rewards mr Patri Andari. So, where is the Risk v Reward for them? 0:1000000000m? You talk about the whole risk vs reward but as JVol said, When you are pvping, the risk is the same anywhere you go. The risk is possibly even GREATER in high sec as it is extremely EASY to get a new pvp ship. ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.27 00:41:00 -
[127]
Originally by: JVol You keep saying the 'risk vs reward' line.. Like high sec has any less risk than low sec when talking about war decs or faction warfare? When 5 war targets have you scrambled,webbed and neuted, does it REALLY matter what sec the damn system is?
With or without a war declaration, in 0.0 Blues not in your corp or alliance can and do come to your aid in this scenario. They can not in High sec or risk Concord reprisal and possible sec loss.
Originally by: JVol No, your dead, did they work any less to nab you? NO. Did they risk LESS because of the systems sec?
They worked less and had to risk less. Unless having to tank sentry fire in low sec or worrying about others not party to the war coming to your aid is not a big concern or risk.
Originally by: JVol Your same argument couldve been said to the guys who wanted jet cans to belong to them and have rights to those who steal, or mission runners who want the loot thats theirs.
The miner mined the ore from a rock and the mission runner killed an NPC enemy of the state for bounty. Neither person abscond the property from another player. Failed analogy
Originally by: JVol ....also, all your talk of profit in high sec, the current flagging system ISNT there to limit war decs profitability in high sec you ass, its just a broken system.
"Ass?" I'd ask the Devs why they made it this way but they may not have conversations with a barn yard animal like me. Neither of us can be in the developers mind as to why the system was made this way. The fact remains that it IS this way and it controls profits, albeit in a small way IMHO. Risk v. reward working as intended. (jab)
Originally by: JVol How would it harm the game for the vultures to occasionally have some risk when STEALING? Its not like the proposed changes STOP them from being able to steal, just makes it how it should be, risky
They are flagged right now. To the owner of the loot and his corp. Sure you would like to make this about increasing their risk. That is the shell game. If that were the true goal, why not ask for a sec loss for anyone that loots a player wreck unless he is part of the war? That would be a risk. Don't like that one eh? It is not about the risk the vultures take. It is about your refusal to overcome laziness. Get to the wreck first and profit moar or go somewhere and fight where this is not a concern. Infant.
Patri
P.S. I think I look good on this soap box.
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.05.27 03:47:00 -
[128]
Originally by: aUTOKILL Waaa, Waaa, what about them? Why do they get to play and I get gounded? Waa... (or something like that.)
As far as I can tell you are confusing two distinct issues. I suggest you start a new thread on the lack of risk for vultures. Point out in that thread how it's a huge fairness issue that they get so little risk and then make suggestions on how to change that. I would disagree with that opinion. I think being flagged to the wreck owner and his corp is enough risk for this behavior. But more importantly that is not the main issue addressed by the OP in this thread.
This post is about changing the mechanics so as to secure and perfect the shooter's claim to another player's wreck; therefore allowing him to legally shoot anyone who tries to claim jump. It therefore would confer a benefit that is not currently in the game at the moment and it ONLY enriches high sec warfare.
Hmmmm. So we are okay now with enriching activities done in high sec? If we get this change can we also get a few deposits of arkonor in .5?
Patri
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:10:00 -
[129]
We get it, some high sec 'pirate' corp dec'ed you and ruined you eve world.. WE GET IT!!
This isnt ONLY for high sec, it helps just as much in low sec. Combat happens where it happens. The cost of wars in low sec costs me no less than in high sec. Its about a fair change that should be looked at by the devs.. Arent you curious what they think anout this topic?
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Zeknichov
Dark Prophecy Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:23:00 -
[130]
/signed
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.27 06:16:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: aUTOKILL Waaa, Waaa, what about them? Why do they get to play and I get gounded? Waa... (or something like that.)
As far as I can tell you are confusing two distinct issues. I suggest you start a new thread on the lack of risk for vultures. Point out in that thread how it's a huge fairness issue that they get so little risk and then make suggestions on how to change that. I would disagree with that opinion. I think being flagged to the wreck owner and his corp is enough risk for this behavior. But more importantly that is not the main issue addressed by the OP in this thread.
This post is about changing the mechanics so as to secure and perfect the shooter's claim to another player's wreck; therefore allowing him to legally shoot anyone who tries to claim jump. It therefore would confer a benefit that is not currently in the game at the moment and it ONLY enriches high sec warfare.
Hmmmm. So we are okay now with enriching activities done in high sec? If we get this change can we also get a few deposits of arkonor in .5?
Patri
wtf seriously. it was not a whine i was just addressing things that you have mentioned and you are turning it into a giant *****fest.
This change is NOT ONLY FOR HIGHSEC BUT ALSO FOR LOWSEC WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOSE SECURITY STATUS TO STOP PEOPLE FROM TAKING THE LOOT THAT YOU RIGHTFULLY WORKED FOR.
"Oh, its enough to have them flagged by the corp and the person that lost the ship"
how is that enough? they ("vultures") can swipe the can and dock before you know what hit ya. It doesnt help very much for the person who died to get the aggro, BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE A SHIP TO DO **** ABOUT IT ANYMORE.
Have you ever been at war in lowsec or even highsec and have the **** taken from you because some ******* noob was sitting right by the wreck when you had to travel to it? OF CORSE YOU HAVENT YOU HAVE BEEN HUGGING A NOOB CORP FOR OVER A YEAR. GROW SOME ******* BALLS AND POST WITH YOUR MAIN. ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.27 06:20:00 -
[132]
Edited by: aUTOKILL on 27/05/2008 06:20:11 ok, searious question for you mr. Patri Andari.
Have you EVER had a highsec war or lowsec war. If yes, in that war did you actually fight, or station hug. ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:26:00 -
[133]
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Venkul Mul
It can seem nitpicking, but that is what the developers need to program before it can work, so clearing all those little problem will take ages of developement.
umm.. isnt that what sisi is for. so the programers can test and make it work before it hits TQ.
""My corpmate ship was destroyed I will recover the loot. What, I can't tractor it, I will have a aggression flag if I take from it? Opps I am not on the killmail.""
dual ownership.. he will be able to tractor it and the agression flag wont matter cause if suicided, the party on the km cant do ****, and if war dec... well they shouldn't be looting until the field is clear, so the other party wont be able to do anything anyways.
We can continue forever, but a last try:
Sisi and Chaos ecc. is there for testing and developing, yes, but the developers don't have infinite time and resources, so I will prefer if the large quantity of time needed to develop dual ownership was used to develope other things, included a better drone AI, you can think a problem influencing only people that do war dec in high sec is more important, for me it is very low in the developement list;
the escort of the killed ship being incapable of tractring the wreck mean that you are making more easy for third party people (friend of the killer or not) to stheal from the wreck while making more difficult for the escort to recover it, essentially shifting your proble (that depicted in the OP) from the attaccker to the defender. Not good.
But the main disagreement stay the first point here: too much time to develope a complex system (dual ownership) for a limited number of people (those that do hig sec war dec in busy systems). I am convinced that it is a question of taste so you feel that it is very important, so I dubt we will ever agree. Have fun.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.05.27 09:28:00 -
[134]
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: aUTOKILL Waaa, Waaa, what about them? Why do they get to play and I get gounded? Waa... (or something like that.)
As far as I can tell you are confusing two distinct issues. I suggest you start a new thread on the lack of risk for vultures. Point out in that thread how it's a huge fairness issue that they get so little risk and then make suggestions on how to change that. I would disagree with that opinion. I think being flagged to the wreck owner and his corp is enough risk for this behavior. But more importantly that is not the main issue addressed by the OP in this thread.
This post is about changing the mechanics so as to secure and perfect the shooter's claim to another player's wreck; therefore allowing him to legally shoot anyone who tries to claim jump. It therefore would confer a benefit that is not currently in the game at the moment and it ONLY enriches high sec warfare.
Hmmmm. So we are okay now with enriching activities done in high sec? If we get this change can we also get a few deposits of arkonor in .5?
Patri
wtf seriously. it was not a whine i was just addressing things that you have mentioned and you are turning it into a giant *****fest.
This change is NOT ONLY FOR HIGHSEC BUT ALSO FOR LOWSEC WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOSE SECURITY STATUS TO STOP PEOPLE FROM TAKING THE LOOT THAT YOU RIGHTFULLY WORKED FOR.
"Oh, its enough to have them flagged by the corp and the person that lost the ship"
how is that enough? they ("vultures") can swipe the can and dock before you know what hit ya. It doesnt help very much for the person who died to get the aggro, BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE A SHIP TO DO **** ABOUT IT ANYMORE.
Have you ever been at war in lowsec or even highsec and have the **** taken from you because some ******* noob was sitting right by the wreck when you had to travel to it? OF CORSE YOU HAVENT YOU HAVE BEEN HUGGING A NOOB CORP FOR OVER A YEAR. GROW SOME ******* BALLS AND POST WITH YOUR MAIN.
don't you get an aggro timer when taking other people loot ? means no docking for 15 minutes ? or am I confusing things here ? --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.27 10:49:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/05/2008 10:53:25 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/05/2008 10:52:46
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
don't you get an aggro timer when taking other people loot ? means no docking for 15 minutes ? or am I confusing things here ?
No, you don't.
You can scoop someone's loot and dock immediately - the only risk is that owner of the wreck (who's already out of a ship due to becoming a preety explosion and will definitely need more time to dock->get in ship->undock->warp to the scene then a vulture needs to scoop loot -> warp to station at 0 -> dock) has kill rights for the next 15 minutes.
Which you can just wait off in station if you wish.
Dual-ownership (with people on the KM + the victim and his corp all being owners on the wreck) insures that the victors after a fight can attack the vultures (and without a sec hit too, which is the issue for positive sec status people in low-sec wars) and fend them off.
Any comments about the defeated tractoring X or Y are totally moot, they're all dead or fled. You don't tractor wrecks while fighting.
The suicide gankers on killmail are all dead anyway so it doesn't help them in any way or form (while the escorts can still fire on thieves as they can now, hence dual ownership).
This will be increasingly important as FW hits. People wishing to avoid sec hits (or, in high-sec, concordokken) will have no way of protecting the loot from their kills in low-sec or high-sec. FW being one giant war, I expect that something will need to be done to make it possible for people to defend their loot (if the vultures want to salvage, fine).
While right now this is not a issue which affects a lot of players, with FW it suddenly will be.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Patri Andari
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 11:14:00 -
[136]
Bipolar, right? Are you taking your meds? First we have calm and introspective aUTOKILL:
Originally by: aUTOKILL
Originally by: Patri Andari
For these and other fine benefits we are sorry but you have to get your ass out of high sec or figure out a work around.
this has nothing to do with the discussion about the proposed ideas. please refrain from posting such remarks.
Then we have raging-lunatic-mockingbird-manBEARpig aUTOKILL:
Originally by: aUTOKILL wtf seriously....Have you ever been at war in lowsec or even highsec and have the **** taken from you because some ******* noob was sitting right by the wreck when you had to travel to it? OF CORSE YOU HAVENT YOU HAVE BEEN HUGGING A NOOB CORP FOR OVER A YEAR. GROW SOME ******* BALLS AND POST WITH YOUR MAIN. DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO!?
Added that last sentence for effect. It seems to fit the mood.
If it gets less profitable for one to make isk doing PVP as you go to higher and higher security systems it is a GOOD thing. Working as intended. It is supposed to be that way with all isk making endeavors. Vultures are opportunist. Not much different from suicide gankers but easier to defend against. Dedicated salvager/looter solves the problem.
Patri
p.s. I consider a "main" to be the character that makes the mountain of isk, not the one that bleeds the isk for PVP. That tough guy is not a very effective isk earner. As such, this char makes great isk and never complains about returns in high sec, low sec or 0.0. They are all great. So who is your "main"?
Oh, and please stay away from sharp objects when you are feeling manic.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 12:07:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/05/2008 12:08:57
Originally by: Patri Andari I consider a "main" to be the character that makes the mountain of isk, not the one that bleeds the isk for PVP.
Many 0.0 dwellers rat/etc with their mains for the ISK (or have their alliance supply them with ships).
Most low-sec pirates pirate for their ISK if they're any good. I know I'm sitting on a comfortable (bear in mind that my typical ship will have a loss cost of about 30-ish M and I don't lose them that often) 2.6B at the moment with roughly 150M in assets (I started piracy with a roughly 400M capital and 50M in assets).
Mercenaries probably make even better ISK then most.
Quote:
If it gets less profitable for one to make isk doing PVP as you go to higher and higher security systems it is a GOOD thing. Working as intended. It is supposed to be that way with all isk making endeavors.
Actually, it's rather the inverse (with profit from PvP, and profit from PvE in high-sec is preety damn big as well).
The least profitable PvP is apparently in 0.0; blobbing and so on (and big gang on gang fights or fleet fights) don't tend to make a lot of ISK due to significant losses on all sides of a fight.
Piracy is fairly profitable; but to get the best loot you need to have a very organized crew (catching blockade runners is a non-trivial task), you need to fly cost-effective, and you have fairly regular anti-pirate gangs (and other pirates) and so on and on trying to pick a fight which you have to deal with or run from.
Suicide ganking, on the other hand, is much more profitable in the same time frame. It exploits the stupidity of high-sec residents (who falsely believe they're safe in high-sec, even on autopilot with tons of ISK in untanked ships). Then again, most of the ISK and valuables are located in high-sec trade hubs and the systems connecting them.
At any rate, with FW hitting and fights happening all over, some way of protecting yourself from the vultures stealing loot (if they want to salvage, fine, 99% of people won't fit salvagers on a combat ship anyway) without getting concorded or losing security status IS necessary.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated Derek Knows Us
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 23:09:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Kane Rizzel on 27/05/2008 23:10:21
Originally by: Raffael Ramirez You keep what you kill..
Sounds allright
This
A Pirates Perspective
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aUTOKILL
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 23:26:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Kane Rizzel Edited by: Kane Rizzel on 27/05/2008 23:10:21
Originally by: Raffael Ramirez You keep what you kill..
Sounds allright
This
the necromonger way ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Cyberbite
Syrkos Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 23:39:00 -
[140]
This is definitely something that needs a change. Truthfully i don't care which way...as long as it's made equal all around...if you kill an npc and get 'rights' to it...i don't think a player kill should be any different...
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Kirex
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 23:41:00 -
[141]
Yes great idea. :)
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Fox Ogmo
Caritas.
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 23:44:00 -
[142]
Agreed; equal treatment of missioners' loot and pirates' loot.
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Professor Leech
Southern Light Entertainment Black Scope Project
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 00:31:00 -
[143]
This is another one of these ideas that people think is great but it's actually stupid.
When salvage was introduced you needed to loot the can (get flagged) and then salvage. I went around salvaging and had all sort of people running away from me. The flagging mechanic is a great method of terrorising new players and killing carebears who don't know any better. Thus flagging for salvaging isn't going to be of any benefit to the majority of players.
Privateers was the best concept ever introduced into eve and now it's members are reduced to whining about salvage.
Salvage is just that salvage from a wreck. It's a free for all. If you can't handle the competition give up salvaging.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 00:34:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Professor Leech Privateers was the best concept ever introduced into eve and now it's members are reduced to whining about salvage..
If you can look past who actually brought this subject up ... I KNOW you would see the light .. BUT you can't because you're shallow ... so ... move along
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
ceyriot
Induseng Enterprises R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 00:50:00 -
[145]
support, /signed, and all that lovely nonsense.
Faction Store - Killboard |
JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 00:57:00 -
[146]
Edited by: JVol on 28/05/2008 00:59:07
Originally by: Professor Leech This is another one of these ideas that people think is great but it's actually stupid.
When salvage was introduced you needed to loot the can (get flagged) and then salvage. I went around salvaging and had all sort of people running away from me. The flagging mechanic is a great method of terrorising new players and killing carebears who don't know any better. Thus flagging for salvaging isn't going to be of any benefit to the majority of players.
Privateers was the best concept ever introduced into eve and now it's members are reduced to whining about salvage.
Salvage is just that salvage from a wreck. It's a free for all. If you can't handle the competition give up salvaging.
I havent seen one person that was for this that was whining, quite the opposit. The op in this case isnt talking about salvage at all.
Since you brought it up tho.. Salvage should also be 'duel flagged' the original owner and the person who delt the final blow. T2 salvage is too valuable to just be 'free' to any person who gets there first to a wreck. Mission loot, keep it free t1 rigs should be cheap n plentyfull.
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Monkey Saturday
SAS Elite Ops Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 01:27:00 -
[147]
I have to go with no on this. The loot only belongs to the person who killed the ship when it is snuggly in their hold.
I've swiped too much good stuff in my time to want to change this
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 02:14:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Monkey Saturday I've swiped too much good stuff in my time to want to change this
Acknowledging its thievery is the FIRST step
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 02:31:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Allaria Kriss on 28/05/2008 02:32:28 Signed. As it is now, being around a high-sec fight in a cheap ship is a great chance for opportunistic profit - Grab the dead sucker's loot and warp off or dock to cool your jets somewhere. This is particularly common around Emperor Family Academy in Amarr, where there are often professional vultures that make careers out of this.
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Stephannus Calimben
Trill Crabulas Nihil-Obstat
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 02:39:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Stephannus Calimben on 28/05/2008 02:39:48 /signed
Pirates have enough odds stacked against us. At least give us some recourse against people pilfering the spoils of war.
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Ehranavaar
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 02:44:00 -
[151]
theft should have consequences.
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Spork Thalamus
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 02:50:00 -
[152]
I definitely agree that this should be reviewed. It seems obvious that the victor in a legal war dec kill should have a claim on the spoils.
But having a claim on loot from piracy (especially hi-sec suicide ganks) would be a bit of a stretch to justify.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 03:22:00 -
[153]
I approve of this message and/or service
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 04:28:00 -
[154]
Ok im gonna jinx it now by expressing supprt.
Been so long since i been in high sec i forget how bent this game mechanic is.
SKUNK
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Uncle Mo
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:18:00 -
[155]
Thumbs up. Being able to dock with a global is also the stupidist rule in EVE. --------------------------------------------- Official US ambassador to the UK.
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Faltryka
The Dark Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 05:50:00 -
[156]
Absolutely Agree. |
Yanik Olsen
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 07:11:00 -
[157]
/signed
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Laveaolous
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 08:41:00 -
[158]
/signed
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Waxau
The Fated Odyssey.
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 09:26:00 -
[159]
Hi Pitboss!
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Inertial
The Python Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 10:12:00 -
[160]
I agree, if you kill somone you should have rights to the spoils.
we are recruiting!
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Kwedaras
The Really Awesome Players
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 10:38:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Kwedaras on 28/05/2008 10:37:55 i support this!
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Hoggustus
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 12:56:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Hoggustus on 28/05/2008 12:58:36
Originally by: Ehranavaar theft should have consequences.
How can salvaging can be called theft? here's how I view it! In the first place the ship is mine since I paid for it, equip it, rig it, whatever... You blow my ship for whatever reason... the wreck is mine since it's the wreck of MY ship! yeah YOU blow it to have acces at my cargo (or simply for fun) you can even salvage MY wreck if you want. So if a third party come and salvage before you do it... he's not agressing you in any matter! so you should'nt have any reason to gain aggression right over him! The rightfull owner of the wreck is still me! even if you blow it up... it's not yours rightfully it's MINE! The agression right should be mine, even if i've been blown up!
This is the reason i don't give any support for this demand... and unfortunately... i think CCP have the same view!
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 14:31:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/05/2008 10:53:25 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/05/2008 10:52:46
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
don't you get an aggro timer when taking other people loot ? means no docking for 15 minutes ? or am I confusing things here ?
No, you don't.
You can scoop someone's loot and dock immediately - the only risk is that owner of the wreck (who's already out of a ship due to becoming a preety explosion and will definitely need more time to dock->get in ship->undock->warp to the scene then a vulture needs to scoop loot -> warp to station at 0 -> dock) has kill rights for the next 15 minutes.
Which you can just wait off in station if you wish.
Dual-ownership (with people on the KM + the victim and his corp all being owners on the wreck) insures that the victors after a fight can attack the vultures (and without a sec hit too, which is the issue for positive sec status people in low-sec wars) and fend them off.
Any comments about the defeated tractoring X or Y are totally moot, they're all dead or fled. You don't tractor wrecks while fighting.
The suicide gankers on killmail are all dead anyway so it doesn't help them in any way or form (while the escorts can still fire on thieves as they can now, hence dual ownership).
This will be increasingly important as FW hits. People wishing to avoid sec hits (or, in high-sec, concordokken) will have no way of protecting the loot from their kills in low-sec or high-sec. FW being one giant war, I expect that something will need to be done to make it possible for people to defend their loot (if the vultures want to salvage, fine).
While right now this is not a issue which affects a lot of players, with FW it suddenly will be.
Oh right. You could not loot the wreck of you victim in that case :-)
Well the solution then is simple. Make this a criminal flagged action with full consequences except a war dec is active between the looter and the owner of the wreck.
This will:
1. Prevent suicide gankers to profit in the first round 2. Make a fun game out of looting. Like you take somebodys can, you get popped and now all the things are in YOUR can. And somebody takes again and so on and so forth :-)
That would be fun :-))) Oh and no insurance in that case :-))
--- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
AbdullahAhmed
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 16:31:00 -
[164]
Signed and supported.
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IRONUTRR
Wraiths Reborn Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 20:01:00 -
[165]
You got my support
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Amarr Holymight
Bat Country Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 21:19:00 -
[166]
Well wardeccing has to have its pitfalls so no to this.
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winthrowe
Node Alpha Defense Research
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 22:15:00 -
[167]
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Xaryus
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 22:49:00 -
[168]
War doesnt give you ownership rights. Simple as that. Loot belongs to the victim until looted.
-- Everyone is someone elses wierdo. |
Lost Hamster
Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:28:00 -
[169]
No Support.
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 23:37:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Xaryus War doesnt give you ownership rights. Simple as that. Loot belongs to the victim until looted.
War shouldnt be the main point of this change, what about anti pirates? What about honorable one v ones? What about when you flip a gank and kill the gankers? All these are also reasons to support this change. Dont get me wrong, it should definatly include war targets as well... Point is, this doesnt just benifit 'pirates' or 'empire griefer war decs' or suicide gankers, its good for eve, period.
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Professor Leech
Southern Light Entertainment Black Scope Project
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Posted - 2008.05.29 00:16:00 -
[171]
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: Professor Leech Privateers was the best concept ever introduced into eve and now it's members are reduced to whining about salvage..
If you can look past who actually brought this subject up ... I KNOW you would see the light .. BUT you can't because you're shallow ... so ... move along
Reread what I wrote. I've have supported the privateers since day one and had a ball flying around killing all those red background stars on overview.
Everything that drops from a ship is salvage I don't view taking the loot or rig components as theft. Part of the challenge of being a 0.0/low sec pirate or high sec war dec corp is managing to nab the loot without getting killed.
High sec is full of opportunists looking for easy isk and they are your competition. Whining about them is just sad.
I support removing all can flagging. This might hurt the can flip pvpers but that's about all.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 02:17:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Professor Leech
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: Professor Leech Privateers was the best concept ever introduced into eve and now it's members are reduced to whining about salvage..
If you can look past who actually brought this subject up ... I KNOW you would see the light .. BUT you can't because you're shallow ... so ... move along
Reread what I wrote. I've have supported the privateers since day one and had a ball flying around killing all those red background stars on overview.
Everything that drops from a ship is salvage I don't view taking the loot or rig components as theft. Part of the challenge of being a 0.0/low sec pirate or high sec war dec corp is managing to nab the loot without getting killed.
High sec is full of opportunists looking for easy isk and they are your competition. Whining about them is just sad.
I support removing all can flagging. This might hurt the can flip pvpers but that's about all.
No..
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Professor Leech
Southern Light Entertainment Black Scope Project
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 03:39:00 -
[173]
Originally by: JVol No..
I find your reasoning to be unconvincing.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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The RedPlague
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 04:12:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Professor Leech Whining about them is just sad..
I find nothing in this thread that should remotely be considered whining ... except for your reasoning why this issue shouldnt be addressed.
Go OP
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 06:40:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Professor Leech
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: Professor Leech Privateers was the best concept ever introduced into eve and now it's members are reduced to whining about salvage..
If you can look past who actually brought this subject up ... I KNOW you would see the light .. BUT you can't because you're shallow ... so ... move along
Reread what I wrote. I've have supported the privateers since day one and had a ball flying around killing all those red background stars on overview.
Everything that drops from a ship is salvage I don't view taking the loot or rig components as theft. Part of the challenge of being a 0.0/low sec pirate or high sec war dec corp is managing to nab the loot without getting killed.
High sec is full of opportunists looking for easy isk and they are your competition. Whining about them is just sad.
I support removing all can flagging. This might hurt the can flip pvpers but that's about all.
I can only support this :-) Back to the days of old with no can ownership ...
Miners should get bigger anchorable cans, that's all that's needed ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Professor Leech
Southern Light Entertainment Black Scope Project
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 06:40:00 -
[176]
Originally by: The RedPlague
Originally by: Professor Leech Whining about them is just sad..
I find nothing in this thread that should remotely be considered whining ... except for your reasoning why this issue shouldnt be addressed.
Go OP
Well if people want to be flagged to every man and his dog don't blame me if you get blown up.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Manic Mole
VENOM72 Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 07:00:00 -
[177]
very yes on this ---[sig starts here]--- a proud member of Venom72 & Sylph. eveything i say is my personal feeling etc, etc, etc... |
Riwibb
Blackriver Industries Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 09:30:00 -
[178]
yupp
|
aUTOKILL
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 00:23:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Professor Leech
Originally by: The RedPlague
Originally by: Professor Leech Whining about them is just sad..
I find nothing in this thread that should remotely be considered whining ... except for your reasoning why this issue shouldnt be addressed.
Go OP
Well if people want to be flagged to every man and his dog don't blame me if you get blown up.
ok i wont ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
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Tellnan Matkiel
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 00:30:00 -
[180]
Agreed.
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 00:36:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Waxau Hi Pitboss!
Yo Wax ... Glad you can use a keyboard now ... that PENI$ reduction must have been a success
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 01:17:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Hoggustus Edited by: Hoggustus on 28/05/2008 13:07:06 Edited by: Hoggustus on 28/05/2008 12:58:36
Originally by: Ehranavaar theft should have consequences.
How can salvaging can be called theft? here's how I view it! In the first place the ship is mine since I paid for it, equip it, rig it, whatever... You blow my ship for whatever reason... the wreck is mine since it's the wreck of MY ship! yeah YOU blow it to have acces at my cargo (or simply for fun) you can even salvage MY wreck if you want. So if a third party come and salvage before you do it... he's not agressing you in any matter! so you should'nt have any reason to gain aggression right over him! The rightfull owner of the wreck is still me! even if you blow it up... it's not yours rightfully it's MINE! The agression right should be mine, even if i've been blown up! Unfortunatly, 90% of the time i'm a NPC! and i don't return to my wreck very often.
The fact that you get "yoinked" by a third party salvager get you ****ed real good. You then cry out loud so CCP bend rule to your advantage even if it does'nt make any sense logically!
This is the reason i don't give any support for this demand... and unfortunately... i think CCP have the same view!
(sorry for the many grammatical error... not my first language )
Simple answer.. the 'ship' is yours, when I blow it up, "I" just made the wreck, its mine..or should be. Same with mission wrecks as far as im concerned
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Captain Batou
Heretic Mercenary Heretic Nation
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 08:21:00 -
[183]
Yup, I think this would be a valid policy shift. All you little vermin that like swooping in like vultures on my, or anyone elses, kills and slavaging plexes while they're still being run should have to accept the risk for your thefts. If you wanna steal, you should be given the opportunity to show just how crafty you are. After all, a dumb thief is a dead one. Show me how smart you can be. Hey CCP, try nerfing an industrial ship next time. |
Demetri Slavic
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 17:21:00 -
[184]
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Helliott
Privateers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 17:42:00 -
[185]
/signed I hope ccp will change that!!!
Ingame: Helliott Corp: Nomadic Tribe Alliance: Privateer Alliance |
Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.06.01 06:55:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Frug on 01/06/2008 06:55:12 I would say yes IF you are at war with the target, and no if you're just suicide ganking or doing a criminal act.
A war target's loot should be yours.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Drago Vanguard
Vanguard Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.06.01 08:50:00 -
[187]
Loot snatching with impunity got old after my first kill.
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Calcyon Venthor
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 15:59:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Calcyon Venthor on 02/06/2008 16:02:57 *Please delete*
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Venthor Lorn
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 16:02:00 -
[189]
I don't pvp too much...usually it's unwilling too, lol. I understand the issue though. I'd be ****ed if someone was able to loot a level 4 I'd finished with no threat of repercussions.
Pvp just adds to the game, like it or not. How easy (i.e. boring) would the game be if we didn't have Pvpirates to add suspense and danger?
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nitra1000
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 13:41:00 -
[190]
/support
I killed 1.5billion isk yesterday when a corp came to try and kill me (lol).
How was i supposed to l00t the wrecks whislt i was still fighting
Do you know how much i spent on cap boosters and armor repair in that fight 20MILLION isk for 5 mins of pvp and i earn't nothing KILLING MACROS UNTIL MY WALLET RUNS OUT |
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Sevacant
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 04:09:00 -
[191]
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Brmble
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 09:25:00 -
[192]
Make it so both (killer and swooper) are flagged. ~ no not believin in urself ~ |
Dinique
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 10:09:00 -
[193]
Definately agree with this.
This is a huge pain in the ass in high sec. _____ The species has amused itself to death
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Daenarys Vae
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 10:11:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Spork Thalamus I definitely agree that this should be reviewed. It seems obvious that the victor in a legal war dec kill should have a claim on the spoils.
But having a claim on loot from piracy (especially hi-sec suicide ganks) would be a bit of a stretch to justify.
It doesn't apply. Take a moment to think before you post.
In a suicide gank everyone on the killmail is dead, and won't be able to deal with thieves in any case
|
Somatic Neuron
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 13:14:00 -
[195]
Should have been this way from the start. However, there should be a timer on it, say, the length of the agression timer, before it is free-for-all. ---------- |
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 23:28:00 -
[196]
Hey Mr. PvP man, play a song for me! I'm not blinky and there's nowhere I'm going to
Hey Mr. PvP man play a song for me! Just to watch those tears a'flowin', I'll come followin' you
Though you know that empire's ganking has you pickin' up no loot, Vanished from your wreck, Let me boldly lift it now but still you're warping My gumption amazes me, I'm branded on my feet, You had no one to meet At the unwatched wreck, perhaps you need a wingman?
Hey, Mr PvP man, play a song for me! Welcome to the world of weapon free PvP!
|
Simo98
|
Posted - 2008.06.06 07:30:00 -
[197]
simo98 votes yes on proposition (insert random number here)
|
Jaketh Ivanes
Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation
|
Posted - 2008.06.06 09:58:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 06/06/2008 10:00:07 EDIT: Crap, i need glasses
|
Akiba Penrose
PAK
|
Posted - 2008.06.06 10:25:00 -
[199]
- - Falcons |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.06.06 11:30:00 -
[200]
Yea, go for it. Consistency between pve and pvp is a good thing as far as it is possible.
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
|
|
Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2008.06.06 11:31:00 -
[201]
agreed. +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
|
Purvy
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.08 23:45:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Purvy on 08/06/2008 23:45:53 agreed
|
Madboy
Mentally Unstable Enterprises Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 03:21:00 -
[203]
Bloody oath I support the flagging idea.
To many times has this happened.
You and your mates risk your ships in battle. Only to watch the spoils be snapped up by someone else without any sort of repercussions.
Anyways, - Madboy
|
Frayen
Band of the Damned Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 08:11:00 -
[204]
A lot of good discussion here.
Originally by: Zealota FrayenÆs insults infuriate me, players should not be allowed to get away with this grotesque language. I am calmed by the fact you have an impending ban.
|
TimMc
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 09:01:00 -
[205]
I hate the vultures.
|
konjev
Enrave Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 10:15:00 -
[206]
great idea, no more loot gone to carebear bystanders w/o being able to do anything
|
Fifth Horseman
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 13:17:00 -
[207]
I broadly support this idea and wish I didn't have to type a message saying so just to give a thumbs up and if the CSM only ever achieves one thing in it's no doubt short lived existance let's hope this is it and yes I know how to use grammar and punctuation and no I didn't want to use any |
cptblood
Mentally Unstable Enterprises Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 17:47:00 -
[208]
|
supr3m3justic3
ACE'S OVER 8'S The Kano Organisation
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 18:53:00 -
[209]
Agreed....
|
Reggie Kray
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 19:16:00 -
[210]
agreed
|
|
Mori Felding
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 21:39:00 -
[211]
|
SencneS
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2008.06.10 02:09:00 -
[212]
I doubt this would make a difference.
High Sec:- Griefer A attacks Carebear A Carebear A dies Concord Show up and attack Griefer A Griefer B loots Carebear A's wreak. Griefer A dies Griefer B, since they are already aggroed to Griefer A loots Griefer A's loot as well.
Griefer B Warps off.
Low Sec:- Griefer A attacks Carebear A Carebear A dies Griefer B shows up and goes to loot Carebear A's wreak. Griefer A locks and attacks Griefer B Griefer B dies.
Griefer A loots Carebear A and Griefer B's wreaks. This is exactly what happens in Low Sec now anyway.
So I highly doubt it would make any difference to the game, you're just adding another layer of complexity to the mechanics.
|
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.06.10 19:56:00 -
[213]
I've been banned for the last fourteen days, so forgive me for not being here sooner.
Somewhere along the line, the discussion seemed to get off track, where people confused the words "loot" with "salvage" in the original post.
I read and re-read the posts here, and the OP seems to only be concerned with the looting of the ships killed (i.e. pulling stuff from jetcans) and not concerned with the random salvaging of the wrecks.
I lend my support to the rewriting of the rules, providing that they only affect jetcan looting, and not giving "salvage aggro". I would consider it very irritating if, after blowing up another Pilot's ship in highsec, I was unable to shoot any thieves that might be close by.
It seems unbalanced to me, and I vote yes.
|
lo'ming
Privateers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.11 00:26:00 -
[214]
supported --
|
Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.11 09:01:00 -
[215]
|
Chienka
Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 06:02:00 -
[216]
supportin dis |
Leilani Solaris
Auriga inc
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 19:03:00 -
[217]
Signed. It's so annoying when you risk your ship in a fight to get a bunch of 2 day old noobs in frigates buzzing around your target ready to loot as soon as the target dies.
|
Frecator Dementa
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 20:31:00 -
[218]
/not signed
those are not your mods, dirty, dirty pirates :P ----------------------- forum ate my post again |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 03:27:00 -
[219]
I'm going to support this ... adding it to the Agenda on Sunday as well. Only proviso I'd make is that there should be some kind of dual-ownership of wrecks (for the purpose of aggression-flagging) Both the gang mates of a destroyed ship AND the people on the killmail of the destroyed ship, should have ownership rights on the wreck in my opinion. Everyone of these people should be able to fire on a looter stealing from an involved wreck. Any which case adding it as an Issue to be raised and hopefully we get to discuss it with CCP.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 04:09:00 -
[220]
Jade has sufficiently summerized my feelings on the issue.
It's definatly a critical issue for those of us who PVP for a living. And it just makes sense tbh.. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
|
Okura's
interimo
|
Posted - 2008.06.14 12:04:00 -
[221]
Totally agree!
|
Jacqueri Calroszian
Lords Of Kaos
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 17:15:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Jacqueri Calroszian on 15/06/2008 17:24:02 Good argument, signed.
There do need to be changes in game mechanics involving looting and salvaging wrecks, and this is definitely one of them.
Of course, I think it should expand to salvaging wrecks not belonging to you as well, because - after all - it is 'stealing' in a sense and should be dealt with accordingly.
|
Dinamita Tona
Privateers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 18:29:00 -
[223]
Indeed
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 00:49:00 -
[224]
Success. Got it voted through the CSM and is on the agenda for Iceland. Well done chaps!
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
aUTOKILL
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 05:47:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Success. Got it voted through the CSM and is on the agenda for Iceland. Well done chaps!
yay ~~~~~~ doin it for the stats
|
Hey You
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 17:58:00 -
[226]
Originally by: The PitBoss Edited by: The PitBoss on 24/05/2008 14:39:10
I can't tell you how many times i've risked my ship in PVP and got the kill ... JUST to see my only REWARD get stolen by some 2 day alt with a faster ship.
The looter takes no risk to reap a HUGE reward at times ... IF it is just salvage .. why is the looter flagged to the person whose ship it was
PLEASE re-examine this policy
CURRENT GAME MECHANIC
Anyone who loots from the wreck of a Player Character is FLAGGED to the original pilot.
MY SUGGESTED FIXES
1. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND everyone on the kill mail.
2. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND to the person who 'Layed the final blow'
NOTABLE POINTS
1. BEFORE there were wrecks ... when you killed a Player Character's ship ... there were can drops ... IF you looted from them ... you were FLAGGED.
2. IF you kill a NPC and someone loots that wreck ... They become FLAGGED to you.
3. In cases happening against myself ... OVER 90% of the offenders were in NPC corps ... KNOWING I would have no recourse against them (ie. war dec)
Signed __________________________________
We Ride Together We Die Together We Few, We Happy Few... |
Morfane
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 21:21:00 -
[227]
I would like to thank this idea's detractors for blatantly showing their bias.
By ranting about the evils of shooting people in high-sec in any non-defensive manner, or saying you want to be able to continue looting with impunity, you show that your own petty wants outweigh your desire to improve this game. This has, in my most humble of opinions, firmly placed any reasonably unbiased opinion firmly on the dual-ownership side of this "debate".
Thank you!
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 16:22:00 -
[228]
This got discussed in an optional AOB slot at the conference: CCP didn't have time to do the background research to give a formal technical response but they did let me present the ISSUE and we had a good round table discussion of the pros and cons. It appeared that dual ownership is a no-go because of programming issues - but there was general support for flipping the ownership from the killed pilot (+ gang) to the killing pilot (+gang) as a reward for actually performing the kill (basically treating pvp wrecks like npc wrecks).
We don't have the formal minutes yet but I'm pretty sure we voted this as a high priority option and since its just a simple flip of ownership rather than new programming I'd be hopeful we'd see action on this within a decent timescale. I'll certainly be following up on the ISSUE during my term on the CSM.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Anaalys Fluuterby
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 17:20:00 -
[229]
Flag the thief to anyone, not just the corp who piloted the blown up ship.
1) That way you can shoot those that take from the can that are in NPC corps you can't counter-wardec. 2) Someone that wants to help the person blown up can retaliate in their name 3) Alliance mates in different corps can defend ore cans in High Sec 4) Give griefers a whole new profession; ganking gankers.
More Pew Pew all around.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
|
NCTaark
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 18:22:00 -
[230]
The frustration of not being able to keep what I kill because I can't tractor or protect my kills is EXTREMELY frustrating.
Taark
|
|
1072
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 04:58:00 -
[231]
totally agree
|
Tiodus
Gallente City of Certitude Coalition of the ExtraOrdinary
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 22:15:00 -
[232]
This should be implemented ASAP
Also, conspiracy theory coming up, on the house: CCP simply left things this way in order to build up negative tension between players ->more wars and fights->more stuff blown up->more gaming time when the players are patching together their inventory -------------------- /O\ Can't pvp /O\ -------------------- |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 22:27:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Tiodus This should be implemented ASAP
Also, conspiracy theory coming up, on the house: CCP simply left things this way in order to build up negative tension between players ->more wars and fights->more stuff blown up->more gaming time when the players are patching together their inventory
We made it a high priority issue. Fingers crossed
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Battlecheese
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.07.11 04:44:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Flag the thief to anyone, not just the corp who piloted the blown up ship.
1) That way you can shoot those that take from the can that are in NPC corps you can't counter-wardec. 2) Someone that wants to help the person blown up can retaliate in their name 3) Alliance mates in different corps can defend ore cans in High Sec 4) Give griefers a whole new profession; ganking gankers.
More Pew Pew all around.
Finally, the voice of reason. Pls ignore all of these other pvp wannabes.
|
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.07.14 20:11:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Jacqueri Calroszian Of course, I think it should expand to salvaging wrecks not belonging to you as well, because - after all - it is 'stealing' in a sense and should be dealt with accordingly.
I disagree with your opinion of the change you're proposing, but that's another discussion entirely.
Originally by: Jacqueri Calroszian Tchell Dahn, I don't think it's you or your corp that would be the ones that do the killing, I think you guys fall on the other side of the spectrum.
Hey, we kill things too! (Sometimes.)
We're Recruiting! |
Saori Rei
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 00:55:00 -
[236]
I agree with the OP
|
Plutonian
Plutonian Shore
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 01:22:00 -
[237]
I disagree with this proposal. The wreckage and surviving modules belong to the victim. If he or his friends are in no position to claim the wreck then they may console themselves with the (all too brief) kill-rights on the thief.
By what right does the ship's killer claim the surviving goods? Because he activated weapons? Got the killing blow? Or highest damage? Does this legally entitle him to the goods?
Law of the Jungle baby... if you make a kill but are unable to defend it from other predators, then you deserve to go hungry. Just like the savanna, Eve has its jackals.
It's not that I'm unsympathetic to those who lose loot during an Empire war. It sucks. But the proposals in this thread will open a can of worms. Saying a ship's killer has any legal right to the goods is opening a can of worms.
|
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 01:46:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Eternal Error on 15/07/2008 01:47:17 Agreed.
|
Calacheng
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 01:56:00 -
[239]
I agree with the salvage stealing to be aggro/killright flagged. There is no rational reasoning to let the scavengers to just come and take or extract anything from what we just killed and leave without any fear of revenge.
|
Hero Crane
Bilge Rats of Tortuga
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 02:07:00 -
[240]
Support 100% WHO'S...YOUR...HERO!!! |
|
Tzujeih
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 03:34:00 -
[241]
Thumbs down.
I'd support removing security status loss from stealing. But: 1) Looting a pilot's wreck should flag you for that pilot. 2) Looting a wreck that somebody else killed should not be a free flag for the killer.
|
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 20:39:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Calacheng I agree with the salvage stealing to be aggro/killright flagged. There is no rational reasoning to let the scavengers to just come and take or extract anything from what we just killed and leave without any fear of revenge.
Thank god that's not what the Original Post is about, eh? Nice of you to come out, though.
We're Recruiting! |
The PitBoss
Caldari Privateers
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 20:48:00 -
[243]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 15/07/2008 20:50:28
o/ ... OP here ... just waiting to hear what's going on with this [ISSUE]
Summary so far:
1. Thread Started 2. [ISSUE] discussed 3. [ISSUE] taken to CSM for vote of approval to bring to CCP 4. [ISSUE] taken To CCP 5. [ISSUE] made 'High Priority' by CCP/CSM 6. :: waiting for decision on [ISSUE] ::
WOW what a process ...
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
Anaalys Fluuterby
|
Posted - 2008.07.15 21:56:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Kehmor Edited by: Kehmor on 23/05/2008 21:11:00 It should have been this way from the start. At the very least make it flagged for both you and the opposing corp.
Dual ownership. Best answer.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
|
Arthmandar Valikari
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 01:11:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Arthmandar Valikari on 16/07/2008 01:11:53 I'm not much of a killer... I didn't even know this was how it worked.
Have to say, I agree completely.
Edit: then I read the guy above me who suggested dual ownership. Not sure about technical feasibility, but yeah, it is silly that the corpmates of the dead guy can't grab his loot without getting flagged.
Agree even more to the dual ownership suggestion. |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 17:05:00 -
[246]
o7 PitBoss,
From your original post...
Originally by: The PitBoss The looter takes no risk to reap a HUGE reward at times ... IF it is just salvage .. why is the looter flagged to the person whose ship it was
...any chance you could remove the "IF it is just salvage" part? I think it's confused more than a few people who are thinking that your request has something to do with Salvage Aggro.
Just a question from an interested party, for obvious reasons.
We're Recruiting! |
Zathrus
|
Posted - 2008.08.03 20:24:00 -
[247]
Agree. |
JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 02:49:00 -
[248]
What happend with this, it made it into the minutes of the csm, then seems to have died.. any news?
|
Serj Darek
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 06:22:00 -
[249]
Edited by: Serj Darek on 06/08/2008 06:22:06 The reason it should be like this is beacause: The person that is doing the killing is taking all the risk. Empire war or whatever, he's risking his ship and pod when attacking his wartargets or whatever.
So why the hell should a 10 day npc corp alt have the right to take the loot, with no risk or consequence?
First!
|
Aleus Stygian
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 06:52:00 -
[250]
Here we go.
|
|
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 09:12:00 -
[251]
To OP:
Not that I oppose your suggestion, but would not your proposed changes just mean that the looters would adapt to work in pairs, where the first pilot loots the wreck then jetcans the loot to the second pilot = instant CONCORD protection for second pilot, much like ore thiefs operate?
So that leaves you with the gratification of shooting one looter, but it does not save "your" loot. Basically you're back to square one.
Or do I miss something?
|
Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 09:24:00 -
[252]
Supporting it.
Its a bloody stupid mechanic the way it is. hand holding mission runners and ratters atm.
make wreck ownership dual at least! Vote against the nano nerf! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832371
|
Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 09:26:00 -
[253]
Originally by: van Uber To OP:
Not that I oppose your suggestion, but would not your proposed changes just mean that the looters would adapt to work in pairs, where the first pilot loots the wreck then jetcans the loot to the second pilot = instant CONCORD protection for second pilot, much like ore thiefs operate?
So that leaves you with the gratification of shooting one looter, but it does not save "your" loot. Basically you're back to square one.
Or do I miss something?
At least they can blast some pain into the first guy, have him lock as he approches etc.
make the sneaky little no risk shits work for it!
Vote against the nano nerf! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832371
|
Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 09:27:00 -
[254]
Edited by: Sorted on 06/08/2008 09:27:20 arse **** **** ****
is this profanity filter broken today?
EDIT: guess not....
carry on.
Vote against the nano nerf! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832371
|
Karentaki
Gallente Maximum Yarrage
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 10:52:00 -
[255]
Edited by: Karentaki on 06/08/2008 10:52:10
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 23/05/2008 12:06:25 Personally I don't think so. Strictly speaking, these 'spoils of battle' do not change ownership just because you blow their ships up. Think about it, how can you put a claim on something before you've grabbed it off the enemy carcass?
edit: grammar
QFT - Make loot in missions belong to the NPC faction you're killing rather than the mission runners. Please However, now you are just reading my signature... Or are you...
========= Sporks FTW |
Miss Xerox
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 14:27:00 -
[256]
Agreed.
Here's how it needs to be fixed:
People not involved with the kill, nor a part of the victim's corporation, should not be able to access the wreck. Period.
That'll solve both loot/salvage thieves, and suicide gangs because their scooping ship would have to be part of their corp (and as such a target).
|
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 15:01:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Miss Xerox Here's how it needs to be fixed:
People not involved with the kill, nor a part of the victim's corporation, should not be able to access the wreck. Period.
That'll solve both loot/salvage thieves, and suicide gangs because their scooping ship would have to be part of their corp (and as such a target).
Thank God that's not what The Pitboss has asked for, because salvage isn't theft. Get past that, and you'll do fine in EvE.
We're Recruiting! |
Sol'Kanar
NightCrew
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 16:10:00 -
[258]
Agree.
Stealing is fine, but the thief should be flagged to those responsible for the kill.
|
suicideisfree
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 19:21:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Sol'Kanar Agree.
Stealing is fine, but the thief should be flagged to those responsible for the kill.
Can thieves should be flagged TOO ALL for 5 minutes in my opinion. He stole stuff in plain view, he's a criminal!
|
Thorradin
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 23:58:00 -
[260]
It is pretty strange this doesn't happen.
|
|
JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.08.08 04:17:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
This got discussed in an optional AOB slot at the conference: CCP didn't have time to do the background research to give a formal technical response but they did let me present the ISSUE and we had a good round table discussion of the pros and cons. It appeared that dual ownership is a no-go because of programming issues - but there was general support for flipping the ownership from the killed pilot (+ gang) to the killing pilot (+gang) as a reward for actually performing the kill (basically treating pvp wrecks like npc wrecks).
We don't have the formal minutes yet but I'm pretty sure we voted this as a high priority option and since its just a simple flip of ownership rather than new programming I'd be hopeful we'd see action on this within a decent timescale. I'll certainly be following up on the ISSUE during my term on the CSM.
What happend..? It got ALMOST all the way to the finish line but seems to have gotten swept under the rug...
|
The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 18:59:00 -
[262]
Originally by: JVol What happend..? It got ALMOST all the way to the finish line but seems to have gotten swept under the rug...
Still waiting ... Can a CSM please comment on the status of this issue
|
Nova Satar
Exiled. Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 19:15:00 -
[263]
yes please look into this, the wreck and contents should be property of the person who caused it. |
Zerge Bacon
Ordos Humanitas
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 20:18:00 -
[264]
|
Imrys
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 20:22:00 -
[265]
I believe that when I get blown up the stuff in the wreck is mine not yours for blowing me up. NPC's are different altogether and you can't compare them to PC's. Just because you blow my ship up does not entitle you to loot my wreck. Looting my wreck should be another offense. The only time I think you should get rights to the wreck is when you are at war with the guy killed. |
Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 20:25:00 -
[266]
No, and it's a ridiculous suggestion.
The "loot" belongs to the guy you just killed, not you.
|
Somealt Ofmine
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 22:51:00 -
[267]
I'm guessing the OP didn't see the part where the devs have said they don't even like war decs as they now stand. It's just a wild hunch, but its a pretty good bet that making them more profitable ahead of some other changes to them being made isn't going to be too high on the developer priority list.
From the grumblings they've made about them, we're probably going to see a fairly serious revamp of how war decs work, and corps/alliances who do them as a profit making scheme are probably not going to like the outcome.
|
The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 06:39:00 -
[268]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 20/08/2008 06:46:51
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I'm guessing the OP didn't see the part ... :: CLIP ::
I'm guessing you didn't READ the part where I was asking a CSM rep to comment on the status of this issue ...
BASICALLY the time for debate is over ... we're already 9 PAGES into it AND it has run its course. For the 'johnny come latelys' .. you MISSED the bus .. you shoulda piped in BEFORE it was decided to bring it to CCP by the CSM (over 2 months ago)
|
Somealt Ofmine
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 13:59:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 20/08/2008 14:08:09
Originally by: The PitBoss Edited by: The PitBoss on 20/08/2008 06:54:06
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I'm guessing the OP didn't see the part ... :: CLIP ::
I'm guessing you didn't READ the part where I was asking a CSM rep to comment on the status of this issue ...
BASICALLY the time for debate is over ... we're already 9 PAGES into it AND it has run its course. For the 'johnny come latelys' .. you MISSED the bus .. you shoulda piped in BEFORE it was decided to bring it to CCP by the CSM (over 2 months ago)
BUT if you STILL insist on dragging out the discussion ... PLEASE go to page 1 AND read the original post BEFORE you make a comment SHOWING your complete ingnorance of the exact topic being discussed
Or else?... you'll war dec me? Grow up?
I read your post. As I said in my post, it looks like it's counter to what the devs have in mind for war decs already and probably has a snoball's chance in hell of being prioritized ahead of other chances that they want to make to them. My feedback, therefore, is that bringing it to them at this time is a waste of CSM bandwidth.
It's fine if you don't like my feedback, but posturing like I'm an ignorant ass who didn't read your post just because you don't like my feedback only makes you look like one.
Thanks for your reply. |
Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.08.20 14:39:00 -
[270]
How about coding something that does not allow NPC corp pilots to loot any PC wreck that they are not on the killmail for or any NPC wreck that they did not contribute damage to. This would solve a few issues.
Don't know if this is possible, but it is an idea that I have not seen mentioned in my scanning.
Slade
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Political Prisoner
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.08.20 20:46:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Political Prisoner on 20/08/2008 20:47:56
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine ... Worthless Input ...
CSM/CCP please update status
Respectfully,
Political Prisoner
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SysFin
|
Posted - 2008.09.27 19:59:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Somewhere along the line, the discussion seemed to get off track, where people confused the words "loot" with "salvage" in the original post.
I read and re-read the posts here, and the OP seems to only be concerned with the looting of the ships killed (i.e. pulling stuff from jetcans) and not concerned with the random salvaging of the wrecks.
I lend my support to the rewriting of the rules, providing that they only affect jetcan looting, and not giving "salvage aggro". I would consider it very irritating if, after blowing up another Pilot's ship in highsec, I was unable to shoot any thieves that might be close by.
It seems unbalanced to me, and I vote yes.
I agree 100%
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Natalia Duraldi
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.09.28 03:32:00 -
[273]
Edited by: Natalia Duraldi on 28/09/2008 03:32:21 approved...
also a question, if this issue is not implemented, would it be possible to prevent npc corp players from looting/salvaging pvp wrecks, because it is pretty ghey to not be able to wardec offenders
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Karrade Krise
|
Posted - 2008.09.28 06:25:00 -
[274]
I fully support the OP.
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Mara Devortex
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Posted - 2008.09.28 11:17:00 -
[275]
This thread is more about which vultures get to pick the bones..imho the loot should belong to the player who got killed..flag anyone taking it..
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Neesa Corrinne
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.28 14:35:00 -
[276]
More whines from people who never leave overpopulated empire and then complain that their mission was scanned down and looted.
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Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.29 12:50:00 -
[277]
I find this quite a difficult one to comment on. On the one hand, yes it's damned irritating when someone loots the wreck you just killed. On the other hand, this is EVE and for all of the restrictions we already have (and with good reason) it should be a sandbox, and a career of thieving from kills should be just as feasible as a career in can-flipping.
In addition, nothing anywhere says that PvPing should be profitable. Indeed when the question about rewards for FW came up, CCP replied 'PvP is its own reward'. That doesn't mean you can't make money via PvP, real pirates prove that all the time, but to expect it if you're not engaged in piracy is the wrong attitude.
It's a purely high-sec issue, because everywhere else, if someone steals from a kill you just made, you have the valid option of blowing them up as well. We fight over all sorts of things - the right to loot seems as good as any.
I think I'd cautiously support dual-ownership of dropped cargo (the 'contents' of a wreck). I'd not do it the way the OP suggests because it's overly complicated and would be a nightmare to code. A simple 'corp 1 is the ship's owner' and 'corp 2 is the corp of the member who most recently put a blow on the ship and is wardecced with corp 1' would be about as complicated as I'd be prepared to take it (which neatly avoids the loot from suicide ganks being flagged, as I don't think they should get any assistance against thieves). Visually indicating anything more complex (ownership is visible remember) would get silly. One corp name in white as currently, and one below in red or some other easy-to-distinguish colour, would seem good.
I have absolutely zero time for any notion that changes salvage rules, which is not what the OP brought up. Salvage belongs to no-one - first person with a salvager nearby wins - I see no reason to change this time-honoured practice endorsed by CCP time and time again. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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ellie mayer
|
Posted - 2008.09.30 12:39:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Mara Devortex This thread is more about which vultures get to pick the bones..imho the loot should belong to the player who got killed..flag anyone taking it..
This, the stuff belongs to the player killed and not the killer, as soon as there a wreck it a free for all with the winners being flagged to the owner of said wreck.
If you're tacklers are not fast enough to get the wreck as they should be close enough and fast enough then it you're problem and not anyone else's, train them properly and you'll get the rewards just don't whine about people not playing fair after you just killed someone !
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.07 06:53:00 -
[279]
WELL ... STILL WAITING ... hope a CSM could atleast comment on whats going on with this issue BEFORE the NEW CSM class rolls in ...
Thanks
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 11:24:00 -
[280]
Originally by: The PitBoss WELL ... STILL WAITING ... hope a CSM could atleast comment on whats going on with this issue BEFORE the NEW CSM class rolls in ...
Thanks
The new CSM won't be rolling in before late November. Don't worry.
We discussed this with CCP last weekend, so there should be an official minutes on this issue sometime soon. I have no idea when though.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.08 11:53:00 -
[281]
Originally by: LaVista Vista The new CSM won't be rolling in before late November. Don't worry.
We discussed this with CCP last weekend, so there should be an official minutes on this issue sometime soon. I have no idea when though.
Cool ... thanks
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Rubikahn
High Security POS Project
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 17:48:00 -
[282]
Signed.
...someone just warped in onto my Worlds Collide L4 and salvaged my wrecks. That sux... , he was laughing at me...
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:25:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 01/11/2008 18:30:47 And the results were.... unsurprisingly a big feck off from CCP who cant "see any compelling reason to listen to the CSM" LOLOLOLOLOLOL ______________________
2. 0101-01-0030 Wreck Flagging in PVP Jade Constantine explained that in high-sec wars, it often happens that 3rd parties steal loot from a conflict site. These players then only get flagged to the owner of the wreck, but not the person that killed the ship. Since the owner is not in a position to do anything about the theft. He proposed to set wrecks to dual ownership, so that both the killer and victim have rights to it, and anyone stealing gets flagged to both parties.
CCP Greyscale answered he believes that dual ownership is not easily implemented technically and that this game mechanic was discussed internally and found working as intended. CCP is also not convinced that changes to these mechanics will benefit gameplay.
Jade Constantine replied that he believed that dual ownership would lead to more opportunity for pvp as well as consequence to action in high-security space, and that he believed it is a bad idea that that loot theft is currently without consequence.
CCP Greyscale said that there is already consequence because the victim is allowed to shoot the thief.
CCP Hammer added that he feels CCP would be opening a can of worms if the system was changed to dual-ownership.
Dierdra Vaal and Tusko Hopkins noted that the owner of the wreck is usually in no position to deal out justice, and thus this constitutes no risk for the thief.
Omber Zombie suggested that instead of dual ownership, either the wreck could be flagged to the ownerÆs gang, who can then shoot thieves, or that it can be flagged to the killer for a limited time after which it reverts to the owner.
CCP Greyscale closed by saying that this issue needs further discussion within CCP and the CSM but that he currently did not see any compelling reasons that warrants immediate change.
_______________
A rare commendation from me for the CSM member who actualy shot down all of CCPs points in flames. Greyscale should have been pushed much harder after his "risk" point was crushed.
And for CCP, yes a standard whitewash, and another of the most popular player threads is discussed and duely ignored by the know it all divs.
Further evidence that CCP only tick the box of stuff they were doing anyway.
In one ear - Out the other.
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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night shiftstar
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 02:01:00 -
[284]
Originally by: The PitBoss Edited by: The PitBoss on 24/05/2008 14:39:10
(...)
CURRENT GAME MECHANIC
Anyone who loots from the wreck of a Player Character is FLAGGED to the original pilot.
MY SUGGESTED FIXES
1. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND everyone on the kill mail.
2. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND to the person who 'Layed the final blow'
(...)
2. IF you kill a NPC and someone loots that wreck ... They become FLAGGED to you.
NPC or player should b the same thing, for reality sake.
And should get flagged to their corps also!
Further more:
IN MISSIONS
if someone steps in with out being in ure gang, corp or alliance, after looting OR SALVAGING ure wrecks, should not only b flaged, but also get KILL RIGHTS !!!
Full Supporting This
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2008.11.09 07:35:00 -
[285]
i disagree with op.
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Mr Banzai
Caldari Rogue Squadron
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 00:51:00 -
[286]
/totally support
In Factional Warfare, we have to deal with ninja looters on a constant basis, there are always some vultures following us around and stealing whatever they can. And even being in low-sec, we can't afford to shoot them down unflagged, getting globaled and losing sec status isn't an option for militia pilots. And yeah, i'm in favor of option 1 - give wreck ownership/flag to everyone in killmail.
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Wyn Pharoh
Gallente Crystalline INC The Black Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 19:27:00 -
[287]
Despite flames sent towards Patri, his points are valid, and have summed up my negative on this position fairly well. This game mechanic is working as intended, no differently than are current salvaging rules. CCP has every reason to limit hisec profitability and get people to branch out into low/null sec. The risk/reward limitations are embedded into the philosophy if not the code of the eve environment, and to rewrite the code itself to further imbalance the game towards greater hisec profitability is not really in anyone's interest.
The established workaround to looting your kills first is to have a dedicated looter, no differently than for a mission runner that wants to 'defend' their own salvage. I say this, as someone that has lived in null sec, while supporting my gameplay, as well as my gtc's running missions, not to be confused with either the empire hugging camps, nor the vultures that profit from the works of others. Sure, it may not be the sexiest role to play, but does give the corp newb something to do besides suicide tackler. Move somewhere that you can shoot the offender, just like CCP has silently instructed the dedicated mission runner, unhappy that the 'safety' insured by Concord seems to cover the Ninja Salvagers that interrupt their bottomless bottom lines. Worried about sec hits? Move to 0.0 and fix that too. Let us not forget that there have been plenty of corps, dedicated to hisec wardec 'piracy', and can't imagine that CCP will ever make a move to make that any more profitable...Eve is harsh. Eve is unexpected. Eve just might make you think, and if thats not working out, you can join my 5yr old, he really enjoys his gnome warlock on WoW. Smash the State...and Have A Nice Day!!! |
ISpydeRI
|
Posted - 2008.11.11 00:48:00 -
[288]
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Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 15:12:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Le Skunk
And the results were.... unsurprisingly a big feck off from CCP who cant "see any compelling reason to listen to the CSM" LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Ahh, at least they haven't completely lost their senses at CCP, glad to see crap like this [ISSUE] shot down by "the man".
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:10:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Rubikahn Signed.
...someone just warped in onto my Worlds Collide L4 and salvaged my wrecks. That sux... , he was laughing at me...
Wow - have you read this thread? Salvaging has nothing to do with the aggro rules being discussed. It is simply in response to the ownership of the loot of a player made wreck, and NOT aggro in response to a salvaged ship.
Thus, your comment makes zero sense.
We're Recruiting! |
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Mihailo Great
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 03:54:00 -
[291]
If you want change, sometimes you have to force it. Need more people to dedicate themselves in getting rich by stealing loot and salvaging missioners wreck. With the missile nerf, perhaps missiosn won't be worth doing at all anymore, and that's when CCP will notice.
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Nnamuachs
Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:25:00 -
[292]
/signed
was recently in a couple wars.. had to pop the wrecks because of the scavenger frigs running around to steal the loot from my war targets. NPC wrecks belong to the player.. so why shouldnt another players wreck belong to that player if they killed them. On a realistic level, there is no difference between an NPC and a player. Fundamentally, sure.. but they're both targets you're allowed to shoot at.. the npc.. though not a "real" player his wreck would still belong to him and his corporation, which means regular players should just get flagged to that npc corp for stealing from them.
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Dred Silence
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Posted - 2008.11.14 16:33:00 -
[293]
Please fix this so I can blast anyone stealing from my wrecks. Also if they are salvaging from them as these are my scrap parts.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.14 20:53:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Dred Silence Please fix this so I can blast anyone stealing from my wrecks. Also if they are salvaging from them as these are my scrap parts.
Open a new vote, because those who voted before you did so for an entirely different reason. Otherwise, you negate the ability to make this vote count.
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AccesiViale
Vox de Lucis
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 04:12:00 -
[295]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 15/11/2008 04:14:00 I support dual ownership. So then you can unite in hate over the dbag who had nothing to do with the said loss, kill him together, become great friends, and share ice cream cones. |
Battlecheese
Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Strength in Numbers.
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 14:28:00 -
[296]
Edited by: Battlecheese on 15/11/2008 14:29:09 Guys, this whole idea is just crap, will be hard to implement, and will be complicated to use.
Simple solution: loot theft (ie, looting by anyone other than the pilot who was shot, or his corp) results in the looter becoming flashy to everyone for 15mins, and can't jump, dock for a brief period in accordance with standard aggro rules.
Edit: obviously, salvage remains free-for-all
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DEATHsyphon
Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 17:03:00 -
[297]
NOT SUPPORTED.
Sure on one hand I don't mind getting people go flashy red towards me so I can shoot them, but by doing so makes messes up some good things about not having you own the wreck, besides the only reason you have an issue with this is because your in highsec. -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you! |
night shiftstar
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 17:32:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Dred Silence Please fix this so I can blast anyone stealing from my wrecks. Also if they are salvaging from them as these are my scrap parts.
Open a new vote, because those who voted before you did so for an entirely different reason. Otherwise, you negate the ability to make this vote count.
nop, Iv voted for ownership of loot AND WRECKS, i dont see any diference! |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 18:41:00 -
[299]
Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 16/11/2008 18:42:54
Originally by: night shiftstar nop, Iv voted for ownership of loot AND WRECKS, i dont see any diference!
Then you didn't read the OP.
Originally by: The PitBoss MY SUGGESTED FIXES
1. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND everyone on the kill mail.
2. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND to the person who 'Layed the final blow'
NOTABLE POINTS
1. BEFORE there were wrecks ... when you killed a Player Character's ship ... there were can drops ... IF you looted from them ... you were FLAGGED.
2. IF you kill a NPC and someone loots that wreck ... They become FLAGGED to you.
3. In cases happening against myself ... OVER 90% of the offenders were in NPC corps ... KNOWING I would have no recourse against them (ie. war dec)
The PitBoss is looking for the aggro/ownership mechanic to be changed on looting, not salvaging. So thus, you did NOT, in fact, vote for both. In this thread, we're only voting to change the looting mechanic.
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Marconus Orion
Amarr Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:12:00 -
[300]
At first I was like, "Sure why not. Make the salvager flag to the person that killed the ship." but then I was like, "What next? A thread about people complaining of the person in the salvager came back in a neut domi and killed their super expensive mission boat."
Salvage as you kill. /me points to the maurauders. |
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DEATHsyphon
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 02:15:00 -
[301]
Edited by: DEATHsyphon on 17/11/2008 02:15:42
Originally by: The PitBoss MY SUGGESTED FIXES
1. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND everyone on the kill mail.
2. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND to the person who 'Layed the final blow'
NOTABLE POINTS
1. BEFORE there were wrecks ... when you killed a Player Character's ship ... there were can drops ... IF you looted from them ... you were FLAGGED.
2. IF you kill a NPC and someone loots that wreck ... They become FLAGGED to you.
3. In cases happening against myself ... OVER 90% of the offenders were in NPC corps ... KNOWING I would have no recourse against them (ie. war dec)
Seeing this quote does make me change my mind on the matter I skimmed through the thread and didn't see this until now but a change like that would be a good one and fair to both the killer and the killed. -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you! |
Odessima
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 04:04:00 -
[302]
Edited by: Odessima on 17/11/2008 04:05:17 Edited by: Odessima on 17/11/2008 04:05:03 The problem I see with the whole situation is the fact that, if the thief was in a non npc corp their corp could be war decced and you could take action against them without concord assisting them by shooting you. I would say that these pilots who no doubt have alts in player corps are actually hiding behind the fact that you cant War Dec NPC corps. It is really more of a High Sec issue because of that, Low security doesnt have Concord roaming about willing to pod you for looting the wreck of a legitamate fight. |
Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 08:40:00 -
[303]
the fact alone that PVP wreck and NPC wrecks aggro different are enough to warrant change imo.
Just like NPC wrecks... anyone can salvage. But the l00t belongs to those who killed him. I would say it should be aggrod to the person who laid the final blow. It at least gives the l00t theives a chance, since in of itself can be considered a "profession" albeit not high on the totem pole of people's views.
Still this needs fixed/changed |
Political Prisoner
Amarr Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:14:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Political Prisoner on 10/12/2008 22:20:03
Quote: 2. 0101-01-0030 Wreck Flagging in PVP Jade Constantine explained that in high-sec wars, it often happens that 3rd parties steal loot from a conflict site. These players then only get flagged to the owner of the wreck, but not the person that killed the ship. Since the owner is not in a position to do anything about the theft. He proposed to set wrecks to dual ownership, so that both the killer and victim have rights to it, and anyone stealing gets flagged to both parties.
CCP Greyscale answered he believes that dual ownership is not easily implemented technically and that this game mechanic was discussed internally and found working as intended. CCP is also not convinced that changes to these mechanics will benefit gameplay.
Jade Constantine replied that he believed that dual ownership would lead to more opportunity for pvp as well as consequence to action in high-security space, and that he believed it is a bad idea that that loot theft is currently without consequence.
CCP Greyscale said that there is already consequence because the victim is allowed to shoot the thief.
CCP Hammer added that he feels CCP would be opening a can of worms if the system was changed to dual-ownership.
Dierdra Vaal and Tusko Hopkins noted that the owner of the wreck is usually in no position to deal out justice, and thus this constitutes no risk for the thief.
Omber Zombie suggested that instead of dual ownership, either the wreck could be flagged to the ownerÆs gang, who can then shoot thieves, or that it can be flagged to the killer for a limited time after which it reverts to the owner.
CCP Greyscale closed by saying that this issue needs further discussion within CCP and the CSM but that he currently did not see any compelling reasons that warrants immediate change.
INTERPRETATION
We at CCP have bettering things to do than tweek game mechanics ... here are a few of them.
1. We're too busy worrying about our real life money going down like a 2 week noob in a Battleship
2. Ambulation is taking 90% of our resources. We NEED MORE FLUFF to steal players from that NEW hello kitty MMO.
3. We're devising new ways to take your real life money ... can we say 120 day time codes
4. The final 10% of our resources is going to fixing LAG
5. Our puppets in the form of CSM need a rallying cause ... so we'll dangle the carrot in the form of this issue through the second term.
6. We're still trying to push all this left over quafe from that marketing fiasco.
7. We can't work cuz we're still laughing about the price of those ship models and how many we ACTUALLY unloaded.
8. ISD sabatoged our computers after we closed them down
9. Our day traders are busy buying up NERF stock
10. We're losing workers to WOW and just dont have the man power to tweek our own game.
FEEL FREE TO ADD MORE
Respectfully,
Political Prisoner
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Rhaegor Stormborn
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 01:38:00 -
[305]
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Finawin
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 02:11:00 -
[306]
I agree entirely.
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Miyamoto Uroki
Katsu Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 13:42:00 -
[307]
True, so annoying if some ninja-looting bastard is stealing your hard earned loot.
Let me kill that bugger if he thinks it's a good idea to benefit from others work.
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Grigo
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 13:56:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Dav Varan No.
Grow a pair and PVP in low sec / null sec rather than high sec suicide ganking then you can shoot anyone who goes for the loot.
Concord should not support suicide gankers.
yeah i suport this :) |
JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 19:52:00 -
[309]
Now with the SEVERE penatlys for ganking anyone in low sec or hi sec, poping a vulture who just stole your hard earned loot isnt really an option anymore. Its still a case of ZERO risk for huge rewards to loot thieves as the current 'owner' of the wreck is well... usually in a pod. So.. to make sure im perfectly clear, this IS NOT about hi/low sec ganking, its about WAR, and the victors spoils. This should be a no brainer for ccp to implement. Who gives a rats ass about walking in a feakin station?? This IS a pvp game, work on pvp stuff, not fluff
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LoneRider
Minmatar Com-Star
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 20:22:00 -
[310]
Edited by: LoneRider on 11/12/2008 20:22:21 It should be like this by now (correct me if i'm wrong):
Suicide Ganker kills Industrial. Wreck is owned by victim. Corpmate from suicide gankers loot the wreck and get flagged for the victim's corp. Victim's corp mates kill looter.
Changing the System to dual ownership would mean:
Suicide Ganker kills industrial. Wreck is owned by suicide ganker as well as victim. suicide ganker's Corpmate may loot the wreck, will not get flagged, and will not get attackable for victim's corp. Defending their property would immediatelly flag the victim's corpmates and concord would kill them.
No, not really a good idea... needs changes concerning the victim / ganker thing.
|
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 20:33:00 -
[311]
Originally by: LoneRider Edited by: LoneRider on 11/12/2008 20:22:21 It should be like this by now (correct me if i'm wrong):
Suicide Ganker kills Industrial. Wreck is owned by victim. Corpmate from suicide gankers loot the wreck and get flagged for the victim's corp. Victim's corp mates kill looter.
Changing the System to dual ownership would mean:
Suicide Ganker kills industrial. Wreck is owned by suicide ganker as well as victim. suicide ganker's Corpmate may loot the wreck, will not get flagged, and will not get attackable for victim's corp. Defending their property would immediatelly flag the victim's corpmates and concord would kill them.
No, not really a good idea... needs changes concerning the victim / ganker thing.
This IS NOT about suicide ganking, its about WAR. Suicide Ganking has its 'regulations'and balance built into it, Huge sec hits and very fast concord responce. Keep on topic, again, this is about PVP, war, not high sec ganking. Whole different topic
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LoneRider
Minmatar Com-Star
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Posted - 2008.12.11 20:44:00 -
[312]
Originally by: JVol This IS NOT about suicide ganking, its about WAR. Suicide Ganking has its 'regulations'and balance built into it, Huge sec hits and very fast concord responce. Keep on topic, again, this is about PVP, war, not high sec ganking. Whole different topic
This is about a change in the game mechanics, and it WOULD have an impact on suicide gankers - no matter whether you want to hear it or not. You cannot fix it for war without having it affect the suicide gankers as well. So you keep thinking about the consequences outside your focus.
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.12.11 20:49:00 -
[313]
Originally by: LoneRider
Originally by: JVol This IS NOT about suicide ganking, its about WAR. Suicide Ganking has its 'regulations'and balance built into it, Huge sec hits and very fast concord responce. Keep on topic, again, this is about PVP, war, not high sec ganking. Whole different topic
This is about a change in the game mechanics, and it WOULD have an impact on suicide gankers - no matter whether you want to hear it or not. You cannot fix it for war without having it affect the suicide gankers as well. So you keep thinking about the consequences outside your focus.
I never suggested that the killers corp gets rights, just the killer.. So your suicide gank worries are not valid... killer would be in a pod, the 'deads'corpm8s could take vengance out on whoever takes loot in that case.. problem solved.. CCP, make it so.. GO!
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LoneRider
Minmatar Com-Star
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Posted - 2008.12.11 20:52:00 -
[314]
Edited by: LoneRider on 11/12/2008 20:54:45
Originally by: JVol I never suggested that the killers corp gets rights, just the killer.. So your suicide gank worries are not valid... killer would be in a pod, the 'deads'corpm8s could take vengance out on whoever takes loot in that case.. problem solved.. CCP, make it so.. GO!
OK, if it could be implemented like this, it would work. But "dual ownership" as mentioned in the starter post would mean that also corp mates would get "rights" - corp mates can have a look inside my cans without being flagged for anyone - And THAT would be a problem :)
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.12.11 20:57:00 -
[315]
Originally by: LoneRider
Originally by: JVol I never suggested that the killers corp gets rights, just the killer.. So your suicide gank worries are not valid... killer would be in a pod, the 'deads'corpm8s could take vengance out on whoever takes loot in that case.. problem solved.. CCP, make it so.. GO!
OK, if it could be implemented like this, it would work. But "dual ownership" as mentioned in the starter post would mean that also corp mates would get "rights" - corp mates can have a look inside my cans without being flagged for me - And THAT would be a problem :)
In any case it needs to be looked at, maybe if the 'killer' took a sec hit to make the kill, duel ownership wont apply.. If the killer killed you without taking a sec hit, war dec, or 0.0 youd get duel ownership. We have all killed targets in 0.0 to have vultures snag loot then jump the gate back into hi sec and laugh, how kool would it be to follow then in and have 15 min to kill their punk ass's?
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LoneRider
Minmatar Com-Star
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Posted - 2008.12.11 21:04:00 -
[316]
Originally by: JVol In any case it needs to be looked at, maybe if the 'killer' took a sec hit to make the kill, duel ownership wont apply.. If the killer killed you without taking a sec hit, war dec, or 0.0 youd get duel ownership. We have all killed targets in 0.0 to have vultures snag loot then jump the gate back into hi sec and laugh, how kool would it be to follow then in and have 15 min to kill their punk ass's?
Now that sounds like a deal :) With the sec. hit check it would be possible to make it effect only war and 0.0 - this way I would support it ;)
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Axel Vindislaga
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Posted - 2008.12.12 13:50:00 -
[317]
The whole concept of wreck ownerships should be trashed. Its rediculous. It really is and is a sad indictment on EVE ONLINE.
If you MUST have wreck ownership only the original owner should have any rights to the wreck and then only in high sec.
Alliances no matter how bloated with themselves should be reminded that they are just roaming gangs of pirates. The Original topic poster is trying to sound badass with the Corp name and alliance name and is crying about wreck rights... and stamping foot and demanding that game mechanics allow him to get revenge on a WHOLE CORP for a single players sweet Ninja abilities. I'd have thought the "hard core" PVP scene the most accepting of a lack of rules regarding this issue. Comon evolve become really badass and figure a way to stop the slavager
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Axel Vindislaga
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Posted - 2008.12.12 13:59:00 -
[318]
I don not support the concept of wreck ownership as the above post appears to indicate. I support the discussion and then removal of wreck ownership.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 21:40:00 -
[319]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 12/12/2008 21:42:44
Originally by: Axel Vindislaga The Original topic poster is trying to sound badass with the Corp name and alliance name
FIRST ... I'm trying to sound bad ass? AWESOME ...
Originally by: Axel Foley and is crying about wreck rights...
Crying ... NO ... Frustrated ... YES
Originally by: Axel Rose ... and stamping foot and demanding that game mechanics allow him to get revenge on a WHOLE CORP for a single players sweet Ninja abilities.
Demanding ... NO ... Requesting ... YES
Did you actually take the time to read the OP ... it has NOTHING to do about revenge on a whole corp ... its about being held accountable for your actions ... BTW there are no 'sweet' abilities to ninja .. ANY FOOL (as you obviously have shown) can hop in a rookie ship and leach off of someonelse's productivity.
Originally by: Axel Car I'd have thought the "hard core" PVP scene the most accepting of a lack of rules regarding this issue.
WRONG ... the 'hard-core' pvp'ers are the ones with the MOST cause to gripe ... because NOOB douche bags like yourself assume no risk and reap rewards from pvp in empire.
Originally by: Axel Badass Comon evolve become really badass and figure a way to stop the slavager
BADASS is obviously your word of the week ... and i'm not trying to stop salvagers ... I'm trying to stop loot thieves ... BIG DIFFERENCE
BTW: Thanks for voting thumbs up on the thread ... Dumb-Ass
Thank-You,
The Pitboss
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.15 14:34:00 -
[320]
Originally by: The PitBoss BADASS is obviously your word of the week ... and i'm not trying to stop salvagers ... I'm trying to stop loot thieves ... BIG DIFFERENCE
Thank you for clearing that up PitBoss - I know more than a significant number of people have voted for your idea thinking it was against Ninja Salvagers, without actually reading the post itself.
I've cast my vote in your favour, and am planning on running for CSM III, in which case I hope to make your idea a reality. IMHO, it's one of the 'really broken' things in the game.
We're Recruiting! |
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Raist Varis
Sensus Numinis The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.12.15 17:06:00 -
[321]
Signed.
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Darwin's Market
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Posted - 2008.12.16 03:45:00 -
[322]
Lonerider, SHUT UP.
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Shikagi Sitami
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Posted - 2008.12.16 04:03:00 -
[323]
Edited by: Shikagi Sitami on 16/12/2008 04:03:13 Agreed. When I pop a fool and some two day old clown comes along and so much as opens the wreck he should immediately flag (and there needs to be a lagtime before he even sees what's in the can. Current mechanics have them flagging twenty seconds after they've hit warp!) to everyone involved in the fight (victor and vanquished!) and their respective corps/alliances.
Right now the system is just plain broken.
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.12.16 06:43:00 -
[324]
Nope
- property doesn't belong to someone different until it actually changes hands.
- Until someone ELSE takes possesion, it is STILL the property of the original owner.
AK Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking.
Ethics, Honor and Respect. Without the first two, you can't buy the last one...
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.16 21:49:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: The PitBoss BADASS is obviously your word of the week ... and i'm not trying to stop salvagers ... I'm trying to stop loot thieves ... BIG DIFFERENCE
Thank you for clearing that up PitBoss - I know more than a significant number of people have voted for your idea thinking it was against Ninja Salvagers, without actually reading the post itself.
I've cast my vote in your favour, and am planning on running for CSM III, in which case I hope to make your idea a reality. IMHO, it's one of the 'really broken' things in the game.
If this is added to your platform when running for CSM III ... you will get my vote and help in your campaign run
Thank-You,
The Pitboss
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Axel Vindislaga
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Posted - 2008.12.17 12:27:00 -
[326]
I refered to these "Thieves" as "Salvagers" to show them in a different light. And the WHOLE POINT OF STEALING is that there is a HIGH REWARD for LOW RISK. *shakes head disbelivingly* Thats why people don't like it. Should Ore thievery cause a rule rewrite? My corp simply blew the ore thieves away when we had trouble with them. Also you whole idea rests on the "LAID FINAL BLOW" Idea. This is open to abuse aswell. A player can then zap an almost dead target milliseconds before your final salvo hits home. THEN WHAT EH? In the end its twisted scrap in space. Its anybodies to take unless they can defend the kill. Watch the discovery channel and see how nature works the rules. NO RULES. I have an idea. Make a FRIEND. Get the Friend to loot the wreck while you guard it. You have a brain you have options. IMMVO There should concord protection if you are destroyed in high sec space. Protection of YOUR Wreck if you some how come to Grief. New professions need encouragement. I see nothing more noble or grand about blasting an enemy to pieces than I do in "salvaging". Its all a game man. I think its funny that they get your loot and your goat.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.17 16:49:00 -
[327]
Originally by: The PitBoss If this is added to your platform when running for CSM III ... you will get my vote and help in your campaign run
It shall be there, and I appreciate your vote. Tell your friends.
We're Recruiting! |
Daemonspirit
Minmatar Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2008.12.18 04:59:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Nope
- property doesn't belong to someone different until it actually changes hands. - Until someone ELSE takes possesion, it is STILL the property of the original owner. AK
^-^ This.
No support, defend what you've destroyed or loose it. ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.12.18 07:05:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Nope
- property doesn't belong to someone different until it actually changes hands. - Until someone ELSE takes possesion, it is STILL the property of the original owner. AK
^-^ This.
No support, defend what you've destroyed or loose it.
You guys just dont get it do you? You CANT defend it because when vultures steal they arent flagged to you. They are flagged to the guys you just killed... THAT arent there anyways, or I wouldnt be worring about loot cause I'd still have war targets shooting me. Our option would to be to get concorded trying to kill them ?? They risk nothing, thats the problem. CCp needs to regognize the war targets loot is mine, not the first person to get to (unles his flashy red ass can get away from me).
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Axel Vindislaga
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Posted - 2008.12.18 16:34:00 -
[330]
"ps... IT"S NOT PIRACY IF THERE IS A WAR!"
This eloquent statement is the tiny thread that needs only to be plucked in order to unravel the entire argument in support of this idea.
I refute thusly.
"If it is war then profiteering is of no consequence."
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2008.12.18 19:40:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Axel Vindislaga I refered to these "Thieves" as "Salvagers" to show them in a different light. And the WHOLE POINT OF STEALING is that there is a HIGH REWARD for LOW RISK. *shakes head disbelivingly* Thats why people don't like it. Should Ore thievery cause a rule rewrite? My corp simply blew the ore thieves away when we had trouble with them. Also you whole idea rests on the "LAID FINAL BLOW" Idea. This is open to abuse aswell. A player can then zap an almost dead target milliseconds before your final salvo hits home. THEN WHAT EH? In the end its twisted scrap in space. Its anybodies to take unless they can defend the kill. Watch the discovery channel and see how nature works the rules. NO RULES. I have an idea. Make a FRIEND. Get the Friend to loot the wreck while you guard it. You have a brain you have options. IMMVO There should concord protection if you are destroyed in high sec space. Protection of YOUR Wreck if you some how come to Grief. New professions need encouragement. I see nothing more noble or grand about blasting an enemy to pieces than I do in "salvaging". Its all a game man. I think its funny that they get your loot and your goat.
It did cause a rule rewrite about three years back.
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Daemonspirit
Minmatar Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2008.12.18 20:11:00 -
[332]
Originally by: JVol
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Nope
- property doesn't belong to someone different until it actually changes hands. - Until someone ELSE takes possesion, it is STILL the property of the original owner. AK
^-^ This.
No support, defend what you've destroyed or loose it.
You guys just dont get it do you? You CANT defend it because when vultures steal they arent flagged to you. They are flagged to the guys you just killed... THAT arent there anyways, or I wouldnt be worring about loot cause I'd still have war targets shooting me. Our option would to be to get concorded trying to kill them ?? They risk nothing, thats the problem. CCp needs to regognize the war targets loot is mine, not the first person to get to (unles his flashy red ass can get away from me).
I do get what your saying. The loot belongs to the guy who's ship you just blew up. If you (or someone else gets it) thats stealing from the last person who had possesion.
If you can't get possession, you don't get ownership. ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.19 16:10:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Daemonspirit I do get what your saying. The loot belongs to the guy who's ship you just blew up. If you (or someone else gets it) thats stealing from the last person who had possesion.
If you can't get possession, you don't get ownership.
So, by your logic, do you think that CCP should make ALL loot drops the ownership of the guy who's ship you killed, INCLUDING NPC Pirates? Right now, if you shoot NPC's, the loot dropped belongs to the killer, and all we're asking for is the same for PvP kills. (If you don't agree yet, tell me why the two should be different.)
You know, if we do make everything the same, and NPC loot drops are owned by the first person to pick them up, then that means anytime I'm Ninja Salvaging in a Mission, I have the ability to loot EVERYTHING, without the fear that the Mission Runner has any ability to shoot.
Put the vote up for that one, my friend, and see what comes out of the woodwork.
We're Recruiting! |
Midnighter
The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.12.19 16:53:00 -
[334]
Edited by: Midnighter on 19/12/2008 16:58:42 Example as to why OP is wrong.
I walk down the street and shoot someone. I then take their wallet from theor corpse's pocket. It does not magically become MY wallet, it becomes murder & robbery.
EVE being an immersive game tries to use ownership laws that are simple to work with and that reflect a realistic dynamic.
Just because you broke it does not mean you paid for it.
Why are NPCs different? Well you're bounty hunting and EVE applies some cool old laws around in the days of cowboys and other cool stuff. In some jurisdictions, if you killed or brought in a known fellon you were given rights to their possessions (those not needing to be confiscated for being aquired illegally). Also see Privateering.
So, for being criminals, CONCORD is pretty much suspending the ownership rights of the pirates and gives those rights to the "bounty hunter" as a "reward".
Yay for six-gun justice! *** *** London Pub Meet 28/02/09 - Sign Up Now! *** *** |
SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.12.19 17:17:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Midnighter Why are NPCs different? Well you're bounty hunting and EVE applies some cool old laws around in the days of cowboys and other cool stuff. In some jurisdictions, if you killed or brought in a known fellon you were given rights to their possessions (those not needing to be confiscated for being aquired illegally). Also see Privateering.
More to the point, when shooing an NPC, the NPC's in their "Gang" are shooting at you anyway.
I would never support this and I feel it's the wrong fix.
People that support this and use NPC loot belongs to me argument have a more simple fix.
The loot remains that of the NPC, meaning if you steal from the loot can, you are agro to the Corp/alliance of the NPC.
There are two fixes:- 1) Fix it the wrong way, the way the OP suggests. You are on the hook for killing, not stealing. If you steal, then you're on the hook for both. 2) Change the NPC to always own the loot. This would be more correct, and logical.
Be careful of what you ask for, the profession of looting peoples cans in missions would be very profitable :)
Amarr for Life |
The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.23 03:38:00 -
[336]
Originally by: SencneS :: snip :: 1) Fix it the wrong way ... :: more snip ::
139 people in this thread seem to think otherwise ... I've NEVER said my way was the right way ... I'm not that ARROGANT.
I asked for the issue to be reviewed
BTW: Back in view
Thank-You,
The Pitboss
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.12.23 08:18:00 -
[337]
If I blow it up, then it's mine. Taking from it makes you my enemy. That is how Eve was always supposed to work (prior to 'wrecks' taking from the can dropped from a destroyed ship was theft and the attackers were free to shoot you).
Wrecks have broken the mechanic so that they can be 'ninja salvaged'... CCP merely needs to put ownership back in the hands of the vanquisher.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.23 14:05:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Mister Xerox Wrecks have broken the mechanic so that they can be 'ninja salvaged'... CCP merely needs to put ownership back in the hands of the vanquisher.
Read more. This thread has nothing to do about Ninja Salvaging.
We're Recruiting! |
WheatGrass
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.12.26 00:15:00 -
[339]
"To the victor belong the spoils." -1831 New York senator, William L. Marcy
The programmers have a tough job with this. Yet, it should be addressed and I am pleased that CCP has committed to doing so.
I propose that players who loot and salvage the property of others incur a substantial security hit. If they wish to behave lawlessly then let them Be lawless in low sec. Living in a society requires some restraint. Those who choose to not show restraint will move themselves ever nearer to banishment. Then pirates will have their day.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.28 00:34:00 -
[340]
Originally by: WheatGrass I propose that players who loot and salvage the property of others incur a substantial security hit. If they wish to behave lawlessly then let them Be lawless in low sec. Living in a society requires some restraint. Those who choose to not show restraint will move themselves ever nearer to banishment. Then pirates will have their day.
Read more. This thread has nothing to do about Ninja Salvaging. (Didn't I just say this?)
If you want to debate it further, please do it in this thread. Yes, I realize you've already posted there. Shame on you for cross-posting your opinions in The PitBoss' thread.
(You're wrong, by the way. Your salvage, and the salvage of all Mission Runners belongs to me.)
We're Recruiting! |
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.26 22:32:00 -
[341]
Just a friendly bump to bring it back into discussion
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.26 23:04:00 -
[342]
Originally by: The PitBoss Just a friendly bump to bring it back into discussion
Welcome back! I tried, but as you can see, people just decided to accept my argument, and went on their merry way.
We're Recruiting! |
Efrim Black
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.27 02:36:00 -
[343]
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: SencneS :: snip :: 1) Fix it the wrong way ... :: more snip ::
139 people in this thread seem to think otherwise ... out of 250,000 players.
Fix'd. No one cares. Fly a faster ship, or use a tractor beam. Better yet, maybe you should have your fights somewhere other than right outside a station.
When I see people dueling outside a station, I make it my personal mission to salvage and loot their wrecks. Just because it seems silly to me to fight in plain view of a lot of people who have no qualms about stealing your "hard work"
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Slave 775
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:55:00 -
[344]
Edited by: Slave 775 on 09/02/2009 09:59:30
Originally by: Efrim Black
Fix'd. No one cares. Fly a faster ship, or use a tractor beam. Better yet, maybe you should have your fights somewhere other than right outside a station.
When I see people dueling outside a station, I make it my personal mission to salvage and loot their wrecks. Just because it seems silly to me to fight in plain view of a lot of people who have no qualms about stealing your "hard work"
how about getting a clue about game mechanics ?
Centuries ago, the Bible warned of dangers posed by evil men described as ômaster[s] at evil ideasö and ôscheming to do bad.ö (Proverbs 24:8) PRIVATEERS Officialy nerfed by CCP 05/07 |
Ruri Dant
Onorata Societa
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Posted - 2009.02.09 13:01:00 -
[345]
the other day we killed this ship:
http://www.actisystem.net/onoratasocieta/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=697
some random noob kid in an NPC corp stole the loot while the guy popped. It is not fair that someone who is in a NPC noob corp for avoiding PVP (or other reasons) can profit WITHOUT NO RISK WHATSOEVER.
Pit boss i support you |
Yarik Mendel
Privateers
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Posted - 2009.02.09 13:53:00 -
[346]
Supported with all my lifeforce!
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Cataracts
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.09 08:59:00 -
[347]
Good idea.
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lucifers widow
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:10:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Ruri Dant the other day we killed this ship:
http://www.actisystem.net/onoratasocieta/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=697
some random noob kid in an NPC corp stole the loot while the guy popped. It is not fair that someone who is in a NPC noob corp for avoiding PVP (or other reasons) can profit WITHOUT NO RISK WHATSOEVER.
Pit boss i support you
Perhaps you should be asking you're tacklers why a random noob beat them to the loot ?
Or are they noob as well.
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Zenethalos
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:45:00 -
[349]
Supporting the pitboss on this one. If you kill a WT you should rights to the gear that was on their ship and any one not on the KM/in the corp should not be able to steal the gear without any form of danger.
As for why don't your tacklers just loot the wrecks. Have you ever been in a fleet fight your tacklers duty shouldnt be to run and scoop a wreck after every kill. A little while back we were in a fight and killed 5-6 ships when we were done we looked for the wrecks they were all looted and salvaged within 10-20 seconds of the fight coming to close. Every single one of the looters was in a noob corp.
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Khanoonian Singh
Ramshackle Industrial Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.10 00:30:00 -
[350]
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Terra Mikael
SRIUS BISNIS
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Posted - 2009.03.11 06:10:00 -
[351]
The griefing potential is endless...
I totally approve. ________________________________
Originally by: Korovyov You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.
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ToTheCore
Angels. Acid.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 23:13:00 -
[352]
Supported. I can't even begin to imagine how much loot I've lost to people that steal from the wreck while you're still fighting or aren't in range of the wreck. ---
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CrestoftheStars
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2009.03.18 23:38:00 -
[353]
well obviously they should get flagged. ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 15:29:00 -
[354]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 29/04/2009 15:31:52
OK new CSM Candidates
GET
TO
WORK
BTW: If you're gonna post to this thread (Thumbs up -or- Thumbs down) ... PLEASE take the time to read the original post: CLICKY
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Susan Morals
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Posted - 2009.04.29 16:15:00 -
[355]
Thank you for pointing out a problem with the wreck/loot mechanics, clearly NPC wrecks should belong the the NPCs.
Oh, I'm sorry, did you have a different point?
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Spiteful Soul
Method of Destruction Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 16:39:00 -
[356]
There should be risk in everything, even minimal. What risks are there in looting other peoples wrecks while in a NPC corp, getting suicide ganked?
100% support.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 16:52:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Susan Morals Oh, I'm sorry, did you have a different point?
Yeah .. you're a douche bag ...
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Susan Morals
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Posted - 2009.04.29 17:14:00 -
[358]
Edited by: Susan Morals on 29/04/2009 17:18:38
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: Susan Morals Oh, I'm sorry, did you have a different point?
Yeah .. you're a douche bag ...
Whoo! I just won 5 isk of a corpmate, I was sure that you wouldn't have a polite, logical response. Thank you.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 17:23:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Susan Morals Whoo! I just won 5 isk of a corpmate, I was sure that you wouldn't have a polite, logical response.
What do you expect when you TROLL ... i'll give you 5 isk to GO AWAY ...
BTW ... thanks for the bumps .. it warms my heart to see my post on the front page
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Lubomir Penev
interimo Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:40:00 -
[360]
Originally by: WheatGrass "To the victor belong the spoils." -1831 New York senator, William L. Marcy
The programmers have a tough job with this. Yet, it should be addressed and I am pleased that CCP has committed to doing so.
And yet no progress on this subject so far.... -- 20081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 20090317 : back under original ownership
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mazzilliu
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.29 19:14:00 -
[361]
the mazzilliu CSM campaign central <- girl <- hot <- pics |
Lee Dalton
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2009.04.29 20:58:00 -
[362]
*** You're only as good as your last fight. |
sukmanobov
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:53:00 -
[363]
100% support on this one.
I (or we) was the one who waited for the WT to undock, I (or we) was the one who shot the mofo after he agressed, I (or we) are the one who must pay for the damage to our ships.
Granted we can do level 4 Missions to get the money but after you have done 200.... Well after you have done that many come back and tell me you want to do another.
Once youv'e takin out the WT's capablitys to fight back so you can safely clear up the wrecks, You find that before you even looked at the wreck its gone and salvaged. We have all see the speed at which this can be done at 4-4 in jita, Navy in dodixie or BTT in rens, even EFA in amarr.
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Suki Natasa
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Posted - 2009.04.29 23:34:00 -
[364]
Edited by: Suki Natasa on 29/04/2009 23:35:03 So many replies... So few good arguments against this change.
Flagging the thief only to the corp of the ship that was destroyed is generally pointless. That guy just had his ship blown up. If he is lucky he is in a nearby station building another, if not he just woke up in a clone far, far away. His alliance mates are probably fighting for their lives while his ship is being looted. That means that as the game mechanic stands there is no risk to the thief.
Flagging noob alts in NPC corps will not stop loot theft any more than flagging can flippers does. What it will do is force the thieves to watch what is going on a bit closer. When they do make a mistake they will have their rookie ships destroyed. Since they are not really losing anything the risk vs rewards is still very low.
I would go a little bit further than what the OP has proposed. I would like to see the loot thief flagged to both alliances and have his docking rights suspended for a short time, just as if he had fired on someone. This does not stop people from looting but it would provide a reasonable amount of risk for the potential gain.
Maybe we would even see professional loot thieves flying well tanked ships. I am not against the idea of loot theft, just loot theft without risk.
/support
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.04.30 00:56:00 -
[365]
Yes.
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Dav Varan
|
Posted - 2009.04.30 17:28:00 -
[366]
Its not yours till you scoop it.
killin the enemy is only half the job
No vote to dumbing down PvP |
Dzil
Tritanium Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.04.30 17:57:00 -
[367]
Yep, I'll sign that.
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Lauren DeVinnie
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Posted - 2009.05.01 10:41:00 -
[368]
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AGreenLing
|
Posted - 2009.05.01 13:59:00 -
[369]
This makes no Sence why do many other proffessions like mining and missioning get this, but the PVP field is completely left out. I dont agree with how a 3 day old newb in a velator has as much right to the wreak as the person who killed the ship. It makes no sence and needs to be fixed, i agree with what Pitboss proposses for fixes.
Originally by: The PitBoss
CURRENT GAME MECHANIC
Anyone who loots from the wreck of a Player Character is FLAGGED to the original pilot.
MY SUGGESTED FIXES
1. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND everyone on the kill mail.
2. The wreck looter gets FLAGGED to the original pilot ... AND to the person who 'Layed the final blow'
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Radon Kadar
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Posted - 2009.05.01 17:45:00 -
[370]
FW fleets encounter this a lot and we are typically not set up to tank gate guns in low sec so there is nothing we can do about it.
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Chadstick
Smegnet Incorporated Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:10:00 -
[371]
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Nichola Kreed
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Posted - 2009.05.01 19:43:00 -
[372]
support
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Hexor V
I.M.M Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.02 05:38:00 -
[373]
Supported, there should always be risk with reward.
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Meeogi
Lone Star Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.03 10:35:00 -
[374]
This post is sooooo needed. A simple flagging will make it fair....Being able to sit in an NPC corp and loot battles like that ""without"" any risk...is bad form...and IMHO an exploit of the intended game. Wax on Wax off |
Shai 'Hulud
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.05.04 11:33:00 -
[375]
I could not agree more with this post. Frankly, whoever thought it was a good idea to implement the system this way should be fired.
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2009.05.05 20:53:00 -
[376]
/support
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
boardin
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:50:00 -
[377]
/signed and supported
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boardin
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.21 15:13:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Midnighter Edited by: Midnighter on 19/12/2008 16:58:42 Example as to why OP is wrong.
I walk down the street and shoot someone. I then take their wallet from theor corpse's pocket. It does not magically become MY wallet, it becomes murder & robbery.
If I walk down the street and shoot someone, and you walk up and try to take his wallet, I will shoot you. That's what we are talking about here. More than likely if someone see's a murder he is not going to run up and try to dry loot the corpse before the killer because the killer will just pop his ass.
But, you can't say the OP is wrong by applying real life situations. This is a game not RL.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.21 15:51:00 -
[379]
No. Fighting and then taking are TWO SEPARATE OFFENSES/AGGRESSIONS.
It's fine as it is now. Loot stealers should only be flagged to the true owner of the wreck, the victim, regardless on how many Privateers and their alts claim it should be different.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.21 15:57:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/05/2009 15:59:14 And I just have to add it's so hypocritical to see so many "pvp-ers" whining on how their "hard work" and their "time spent" goes poof! Carebears get laughed at for saying such things, but somehow it's different for these brave young hearts, eh?
The hypocrisy from you reaches new levels. Congratulations. And wow, look at all the privatears in this thread. Was an email sent out to come support this thread with mains AND alts?
lolprivatears
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spinarax
Method of Destruction Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:19:00 -
[381]
Edited by: spinarax on 21/05/2009 17:20:43 /supported
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/05/2009 16:10:32 And I just have to add it's so hypocritical to see so many "pvp-ers" whining on how their "hard work" and their "time spent" goes poof! Carebears get laughed at for saying such things, but somehow it's different for these brave young hearts, eh? The privatears' time and hard work IS valuable amirite? lulzprivatears
The hypocrisy from you reaches new levels. Congratulations. And wow, look at all the privatears in this thread. Was an email sent out to come support this thread with mains AND alts in full force?
lolprivatears
real-edit: It'd be nice to have thumbs down... I could use two-thumbs down for this thread right now.
priva-tears fuel my ship :)
post with your main nubcake
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Sacha Sinclair
Twilight Fleet Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:25:00 -
[382]
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Cookz Semarian
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Posted - 2009.05.21 19:03:00 -
[383]
Edited by: Cookz Semarian on 21/05/2009 19:04:40 i support The pitboss on this subject... i find there is no risk in it for the scavenger.
in nature the lions kill dont get eaten by the hyena befor the lion is satisfied and if they try they get killed....
Cookz
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Shiira Marvinitus
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Posted - 2009.05.21 20:17:00 -
[384]
Nothing to add to what's already said, apart from a thumbs up.
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Car Wars
Pigs In Space United Proletariat Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.21 23:28:00 -
[385]
get this done already please, thanks
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Terig
Minmatar Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Quantum Star Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.21 23:45:00 -
[386]
I agree -----------------
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.
-Kungen, the mages are on fire!! -What are you waiting for throw them at the boss for extra dps!
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NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 04:16:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/05/2009 16:10:32 And I just have to add it's so hypocritical to see so many "pvp-ers" whining on how their "hard work" and their "time spent" goes poof! Carebears get laughed at for saying such things, but somehow it's different for these brave young hearts, eh? The privatears' time and hard work IS valuable amirite? lulzprivatears
The hypocrisy from you reaches new levels. Congratulations. And wow, look at all the privatears in this thread. Was an email sent out to come support this thread with mains AND alts in full force?
lolprivatears
real-edit: It'd be nice to have thumbs down... I could use two-thumbs down for this thread right now.
priva-tears fuel my ship :)
No, it's Privaq*ueers, not privatears. And yes, as a matter of fact a mail was sent out about this. Other than that, I support this because it gives me a way to shoot bad people at high sec trade hubs (which I never leave), and inspire a greater volume of really angry, incoherent rants like the above.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.05.22 05:28:00 -
[388]
Agreed: Thief should be flagged to the destroyed pilot's entire corp, plus the corp of every pilot involved in destroying them.
Hell, let's just make it easy: Loot from a wreck = global countdown for EVERYONE if you are not Attacker or Target.
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Kailen Thorn
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 09:46:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/05/2009 16:10:32 And I just have to add it's so hypocritical to see so many "pvp-ers" whining on how their "hard work" and their "time spent" goes poof! Carebears get laughed at for saying such things, but somehow it's different for these brave young hearts, eh? The privatears' time and hard work IS valuable amirite? lulzprivatears
The hypocrisy from you reaches new levels. Congratulations. And wow, look at all the privatears in this thread. Was an email sent out to come support this thread with mains AND alts in full force?
lolprivatears
real-edit: It'd be nice to have thumbs down... I could use two-thumbs down for this thread right now.
priva-tears fuel my ship :)
lol, you sir, are a tool.
firstly carebears get laughed at cause they compain about everything and anything which remotely effects them. We are only asking for minors fixes which should have been sorted long ago.
Yes, our time and hard work is valuable for us to survive. We do very few other activities to gain money, and thus we need the loot to sell on and survive. From your awesome record there, 60 losses, between your ibis and your pod. I can see you awesome at what you do. Seem like one of those who steal stuff from our loot and make your money off our hard work.
Now go run along to somewhere else to cry and make me write more than what i planned to, oh yea, and grow some balls to post with your main, -.-
and i would like to say that i also /support this.
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oranjj
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.22 10:12:00 -
[390]
Flag the wrecks
/signed
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 11:46:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Kailen Thorn lol, you sir, are a tool.
But of course I am. I'm telling the truth. The truth hurt you. And that made me a tool. Amirite?
Quote: firstly carebears get laughed at cause they compain about everything and anything which remotely effects them. We are only asking for minors fixes which should have been sorted long ago.
Another case of "if I complain it's fair and not a whine. If you complain it's a whine and you should L2P and can i haz your stuffz noob?". [Yawn] But of course Privatears' whines are fair and never fueled by self interest. .
Quote: Yes, our time and hard work is valuable for us to survive. We do very few other activities to gain money, and thus we need the loot to sell on and survive. From your awesome record there, 60 losses, between your ibis and your pod. I can see you awesome at what you do. Seem like one of those who steal stuff from our loot and make your money off our hard work.
And yet another fine and fair post by a selfless privatear thinking about the "well-being" of the game as a whole and not just his interests... Not. When you grow older you'll understand (hopefully) to be consistent with yuour beliefs and understand that either everyone's time and hard work is important or none, but atleast you'll be consistent and be less hypocritical. But I'm thinking not. And yes, my alt is used to bust gate camps. Does it upset you that a bully is bullying you? I'm sowwy.
Quote: Now go run along to somewhere else to cry and make me write more than what i planned to, oh yea, and grow some balls to post with your main, -.-
Oh noes! You mean I don't have e-balls? I'd like to have a pair of e-balls. Where could I get some of those? Do Privatears have e-balls? So like, do you get all teh sexes with a pair of big e-balls? I'll tell you what. Why don't you post with your real main :). I mean your REAL MAIN self. No hiding behind avatars :). Name, address, number... You're not a coward, are you?
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Shan Dollean
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 12:49:00 -
[392]
/signed
If you want the loot I just liberated from a target - you should expect to have to fight for it. Simple as.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 15:37:00 -
[393]
Originally by: Matrix Skye .... SNIP ....
USELESS TROLL argument UNTIL you grow a set and post with your main
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 15:47:00 -
[394]
NO U!
Fake edit: This thread needs more teers. <== see what i did there?
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NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 17:05:00 -
[395]
Edited by: NickSuccorso on 22/05/2009 17:06:54
Quote: And yet another fine and fair post by a selfless privatear thinking about the "well-being" of the game as a whole and not just his interests... Not.
I don't pay for, play, or post with my accounts to make sure that you're having fun. Frankly, I'm pretty sure you must have fallen and broken your head since you're actually whining about people wanting to make it so they get the most fun out of the game they play and pay for.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 17:14:00 -
[396]
Originally by: NickSuccorso I don't pay for, play, or post with my accounts to make sure that you're having fun. Frankly, I'm pretty sure you must have fallen and broken your head since you're actually whining about people wanting to make it so they get the most fun out of the game they play and pay for.
Funny you should say this considering that when a carebear plays to play HIS style of game he's accused of being selfish/greedy/idiotic/[insert Privateer rant here] but when it's YOU well, that's just acceptable now isn't it . You're just hypocrites and I'm calling you out for what you are while having some fun at it. Don't get mad at me for telling you the truth. Quite frankly this thread needs moar teers. They fuel my ship. Don't hate the player, hate the game, 'bro'.
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NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 17:34:00 -
[397]
Quote: Funny you should say this considering that when a carebear plays to play HIS style of game he's accused of being selfish/greedy/idiotic/[insert Privateer rant here] but when it's YOU well, that's just acceptable now isn't it
When did I complain about other people wanting to maximize their own fun, broken head?
Quote: You're just hypocrites and I'm calling you out for what you are while having some fun at it. Don't get mad at me for telling you the truth. Quite frankly this thread needs moar teers. They fuel my ship. Don't hate the player, hate the game, 'bro'.
There you go again, lumping everyone into a single ready made mould. That's poor arguement technique, broken head.
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The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.22 17:46:00 -
[398]
Ha Ha ... Broken Head
Matrix Skye - State War Academy
OBVIOUSLY He's a douche bag alt that survives in-game by feeding off of someone else's hard work that needs to burn ...
Next argument for -or- against this ... we know your stance matrix .. please move on
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 18:11:00 -
[399]
Please dont call me broken head and then laugh at me . That makes me angry.
So back on topic, where can I find these illustrious e-balls? Are they part of a COSMOS event?
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 18:23:00 -
[400]
Originally by: NickSuccorso When did I complain about other people wanting to maximize their own fun, broken head?
You don't know much of your own history, Privatear. I suggest you ask around what Privatear was/has been all about.
Quote: There you go again, lumping everyone into a single ready made mould. That's poor arguement technique, broken head.
I'm lumping Privatears into one sigle mold. You're a Privatear. If you don't like or don't agree what Privatear stands for then perhaps you should look for another alliance? Otherwise don't get mad when your alliance is called for what they are.
And stop calling me 'broken head'. Seriously, it's making me angry.
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NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 18:40:00 -
[401]
Quote: You don't know much of your own history, Privatear. I suggest you ask around what Privatear was/has been all about.
No, that's an easy one. Legally sanctioned empire piracy, and disruption. Noobs at trade hubs etc. etc. etc.
Quote: I'm lumping Privatears into one sigle mold. You're a Privatear. If you don't like or don't agree what Privatear stands for then perhaps you should look for another alliance? Otherwise don't get mad when your alliance is called for what they are.
You're still using your flawed arguements. That's very poor form, and not in the spirit of lively discussion that's to be expected on this forum. Also, your trolling technique is not working either because you refuse to evolve the style of attack to fit the flow of discussion. That's just lazy. You need more practice.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 19:02:00 -
[402]
Playing the mature card now are we? :)
OK, let's see how long it lasts before your alliance degenerates it into a smack 'U n00b U quit!1!'. And explain to me why the current mechanic is 'broken'. If you agressed or attack someone why would that automatically make you the owner of their possesion? Just because you attack someone and managed to kill them doesn't mean you somehow legally own their stuff. Eve isn't a prize-fighting game like Counterstrike. Eve is more real in the sense that you can agress and you can steal from someone else. Loot isn't handed down to you because you dueled an opponent and won the tournament.
The possessions still belong to the victim UNTIL you steal them. But you HAVE TO STEAL IT FIRST. It's more realistic and it's what makes Eve so special and different from other MMOs. It's a cruel world even for the cruelest of the cruelest.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 19:07:00 -
[403]
I also would like to add that Eve is a vicious cycle where the predators also become prey. And it's more fun that way. You could be the baddest killhog out there, but then a low-down dirty scoundrel comes along and dogs you just like you dogged your prey. It's what Eve is all about. Sure you'll get mad when you get dogged. It's natural. And the scoundrel will laugh at you just as you laughed at your prey. And in the end no one likes to be dogged. But it's what Eve is all about :).
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NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 19:37:00 -
[404]
Edited by: NickSuccorso on 22/05/2009 19:42:46
Quote: If you agressed or attack someone why would that automatically make you the owner of their possesion?
No, the prize is up for grabs to anyone who can grab it. Nobody is saying that this shouldn't be the case. And if anyone does, than they're ******ed. What people are saying here is that they'd like some way to legally (per concord) attempt to discourage the vulture from the picking scraps. Is it reasonable that being a pvp loot thief has absolutely 0 risk and great rewards?
Quote: You should have friends there with you ready to steal the victim's loot. Not everyone in your gank squad need to put out DPS. You could have someone be the dedicated looter. In Eve you need to think of all sides of the angle and be prepared to be attacked in your weakest side.
That's a very valid point until you see that now I have to bring an extra guy along with my gang (putting another ship at risk for the vague possibility of him being able to serve his purpose in the gang), or sacrifice an existing part of my gangs dps/ewar/logistic etc in order to have him play space vaccuum (again putting someone in harm's way for the vague possibility of having him serve his purpose). Do you really expect that to become a valid profession in Eve? Do you really believe that this is a fair balance of risk and reward for the hunters, or the hunted?
EDIT:
Quote: I like to laugh and poke fun of you by stealing what you thought was your loot :). This, my friend, is what Eve is all about.
I would agree with you on this, except that you can not truthfully say that it is balanced game play. You need to be put at risk if you're going to pull from the wrecks of others in the scenario we're discussing. And no, being flagged to the victim doesn't always matter. Besides, the guy just lost his ship.
Loot stealing is really funny, I agree with you. It's just broken.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:01:00 -
[405]
Originally by: NickSuccorso No, the prize is up for grabs to anyone who can grab it. Nobody is saying that this shouldn't be the case. And if anyone does, than they're ******ed. What people are saying here is that they'd like some way to legally (per concord) attempt to discourage the vulture from the picking scraps. Is it reasonable that being a pvp loot thief has absolutely 0 risk and great rewards?
What you say here doesn't make much sense. You admit that the loot should be up for grabs but then you add that you'd like to discourage other players from picking it. You can't have it both ways because you're not the owner of the loot UNTIL YOU STEAL IT. But you MUST steal it first. Now if what you'd like is for any loot stealer (including the aggressor) to be blinky to everyone else including bi-standers this makes a little more sense. And then the aggressor is opening up himself to becoming a target himself for STEALING loot, which is a whole separate offense and rightfully so. This I could agree with.
Quote: That's a very valid point until you see that now I have to bring an extra guy along with my gang (putting another ship at risk for the vague possibility of him being able to serve his purpose in the gang), or sacrifice an existing part of my gangs dps/ewar/logistic etc in order to have him play space vaccuum (again putting someone in harm's way for the vague possibility of having him serve his purpose). Do you really expect that to become a valid profession in Eve? Do you really believe that this is a fair balance of risk and reward for the hunters, or the hunted?
You invalidate your point as soon as you lock yourself with the mentality that everyone in your gang NEEDS to physically engage in DPS/EWAR/etc. You're opening yourself up to loot thieves. When you pick up the loot that makes you a loot thief and you don't blink to anyone else BUT the owner of the wreck. So why would a bistander blink red to you if you haven't picked up the loot yourself? Like I said, I think it's better if ANY loot thief picks up the loot he can be aggressed by anyone.
Quote: I would agree with you on this, except that you can not truthfully say that it is balanced game play. You need to be put at risk if you're going to pull from the wrecks of others in the scenario we're discussing. And no, being flagged to the victim doesn't always matter. Besides, the guy just lost his ship.
But there IS risk to the loot stealer. He is being flagged to the rightful owner and his corp members. If the victim chooses to do so he and his corp members can hunt down the loot thief and engage him. Now I'd be willing to bet the victim would probably welcome loot stealers to steal his loot just to not give you the pleasure of taking it but that's a whole different story now :P. And it is a VALID MECHANIC. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't fair.
You have to look at combat and stealing as two separate actions. You can PVP someone either through a war, or whatever. And then you can also choose to steal their wreck, a totally separate action which will cause you to agress the true owner of the wreck.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:14:00 -
[406]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 22/05/2009 20:16:58
Originally by: The PitBoss NOTABLE POINTS
1. BEFORE there were wrecks ... when you killed a Player Character's ship ... there were can drops ... IF you looted from them ... you were FLAGGED.
2. IF you kill a NPC and someone loots that wreck ... They become FLAGGED to you.
3. In cases happening against myself ... OVER 90% of the offenders were in NPC corps ... KNOWING I would have no recourse against them (ie. war dec)
@ Matrix Skye:
Simple risk -VS- reward ...
As it stands the looter has NO risk in looting the ship AND reaps ALL rewards ....
What EXACTLY is so hard for you to understand ?
or are you bumping my topic with your flawed arguments out of the kindness of your heart ...
Like The Jackhammer stated ... your NO SUPPORT is noted .. please move to CAOD to continue your TROLLING
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:16:00 -
[407]
There IS RISK TO THE LOOTER.
What's so hard for you to understand about this?
The looter is being flagged to the owner of the wreck as it should be. It p***es you off that someone else is beating you to stealing the loot and therefore being flagged to the owner, but that is not a reason to ask CCP to change the mechanics in your favor. The system is fair as it is now.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:19:00 -
[408]
Originally by: The PitBoss @ Matrix Skye:
Simple risk -VS- reward ...
As it stands the looter has NO risk in looting the ship AND reaps ALL rewards ....
What EXACTLY is so hard for you to understand ?
or are you bumping my topic with your flawed arguments out of the kindness of your heart ...
Like The Jackhammer stated ... your NO SUPPORT is noted .. please move to CAOD to continue your TROLLING
And now we're back to personal attacks and insults. I knew Privatears wouldn't last long in a conversation. Your ADD gives you away every time . Anyway... NO U!
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The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:20:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Matrix Skye There IS RISK TO THE LOOTER.
What's so hard for you to understand about this.
Lets see ... IF you consider a POD a risk ... you should be playing Hello Kitty online ...
PLEANTY of time to loot and be on your merry way because the Original owner still has to get to a station ... dock up ... wait to jump in a ship ... undock and get back to the wreck.
HMMMMM ... sounds like a HUGE risk to the looter ...
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:23:00 -
[410]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 22/05/2009 20:27:41 Dont be idiotic, Mr. Jackhammer. If the victim happens to have a replacement ship in the system, OR FRIENDS nearby, as you yourself admit he should have, then he IS a threat.
Now if the victim CHOOSES not to persue that is a call for HIM to make, NOT YOU.
Now if your argument is that the victim doesn't have friends/corp or doesn't have PVP ships and that the thief is just taking advantage of the situation (the fact that the victim is careless/weak/nonPVPer), please explain to me how you yourself aren't taking advantage of that very same situation by attacking the victim.
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The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:26:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Matrix Skye Dont be idiotic, Mr. Jackhammer. If the victim happens to have a replacement ship in the system, OR FRIENDS nearby, as you yourself admit he should have, then he IS a threat.
Now if the victim CHOOSES not to persue that is a call for HIM to make, NOT YOU.
Go away already ...
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:28:00 -
[412]
Originally by: The Jackhammer Go away already ...
Answer the question:
Now if your argument is that the victim doesn't have friends/corp or doesn't have PVP ships and that the thief is just taking advantage of the situation (the fact that the victim is careless/weak/nonPVPer), please explain to me how you yourself aren't taking advantage of that very same situation by attacking the victim.
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NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:39:00 -
[413]
Quote: Now if your argument is that the victim doesn't have friends/corp or doesn't have PVP ships and that the thief is just taking advantage of the situation (the fact that the victim is careless/weak/nonPVPer), please explain to me how you yourself aren't taking advantage of that very same situation by attacking the victim.
We all agree with the point you're making already. We've been agreeing with it. The problem is that you're not arguing the point you think you are by posting this. What the supporters of this proposal are saying is that we want to have a stronger ability to balance the scales between risk and reward for people who act as vultures. I want you to still be able to loot "my" wreck from my kill. I think that it's a fine profession, in fact, if people want to do that. I just want to be able to point some revenge at you if you do. This isn't game breaking, there is precedence for this in the game's history that wasn't game breaking, this is a fair request.
Thanks for the chat on this, thanks for the trolling, and it's Priva*****s, not Privatears.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.22 21:30:00 -
[414]
You are going round and round in circles. I'll point out your flaw once again:
Privatears attack a target, you gank it and then some. Fair enough. Target could have had friends, corpies, bigger ship, etc. In the end it's the victim's fault for not defending back. With me so far? It's no excuse that he was alone or that he's just a miner. In your opinion the risk, although practically non-existent, IS THERE. Agree? That is the Privatears' defense, so you should agree with this so far.
Now, a "vulture" comes along and ALSO takes advantage of the victim's inability to come back and protect its loot. And your take on it is that THERE IS NO RISK? There is the SAME EXACT RISK that YOUR gank squad took, no more no less.
It's just you want to be able to attack the vulture because you feel the defenseless target that YOU YOURSELF attacked isn't able to defend itself. If that's the case, then might as well make it so that even if you're at war if you attack anyone in high sec, at war or not, you become flashy to everyone, meaning global timer for you. But of course you wouldn't agree with this because what you really want is just what benefits you and you alone.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 22:11:00 -
[415]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 22/05/2009 22:12:59
Originally by: Matrix Skye Privatears attack a target, you gank it and then some. Fair enough. Target could have had friends, corpies, bigger ship, etc. In the end it's the victim's fault for not defending back. With me so far? It's no excuse that he was alone or that he's just a miner. In your opinion the risk, although practically non-existent, IS THERE. Agree? That is the Privatears' defense, so you should agree with this so far.
Now, a "vulture" comes along and ALSO takes advantage of the victim's inability to come back and protect its loot. And your take on it is that THERE IS NO RISK? There is the SAME EXACT RISK that YOUR gank squad took, no more no less.
It's just you want to be able to attack the vulture because you feel the defenseless target that YOU YOURSELF attacked isn't able to defend itself. If that's the case, then might as well make it so that even if you're at war if you attack anyone in high sec, at war or not, you become flashy to everyone, meaning global timer for you. But of course you wouldn't agree with this because what you really want is just what benefits you and you alone.
AND that my friend shows the HUGE flaw in your argument.
You're centering this ISSUE about WHO proposed the change AND not the mechanic that is being talked about ...
Your 'NO Support' is duly STILL noted .. please leave the thread
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.05.22 23:01:00 -
[416]
Cleaned.
Please stay on topic and resist the urge to flame one another.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.23 03:50:00 -
[417]
Originally by: The PitBoss You're centering this ISSUE about WHO proposed the change AND not the mechanic that is being talked about ...
No, I'm pointing out the flaw as to why your reasoning is wrong. You claim the risk 'practically' is non-existant because the victim now has to dock and get another ship or call corpmates to defend his loot. But that is how EVE works. Theoretically, when you gank a miner in an asteroid field he COULD bring corpmates to defend him against your gank squad. Theoretically he can fit his barge with guns to fight you. Theoretically, he can come back in a PVP ship to fight you again. But PRACTICALLY that rarely happens. BUT THE RISK IS STILL THERE, isn't it? So now you come along and ask CCP to change a mechanic based on practical risk when your entire defense against you ganking noobs is that there is a theoretical risk.
When it suits you, you use theoretical risk to defend your position. And when it suits you, you'll use practical risk (or the real risk) when it suits you. This, my friend, is double standard.
Quote: Your 'NO Support' is duly STILL noted .. please leave the thread
Mr. Pitboss, you may be the boss of.... pits, I guess? But you're not the boss of me. You posted a thread in a public forum where it's open for debate, even for those that disagree with your views. Mr. Pitboss, you'll have learn to accept that if you want post your ideas here :)
You have a wonderful nite!
Sincerely,
Matrix Skye <3 <3 <3
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Zey Nadar
Stormwatch Galactic Enforcers of Serenity
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Posted - 2009.05.24 07:39:00 -
[418]
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spinarax
Method of Destruction Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.24 10:53:00 -
[419]
Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 23/05/2009 18:02:36
Originally by: The PitBoss You're centering this ISSUE about WHO proposed the change AND not the mechanic that is being talked about ...
No, I'm pointing out the flaw as to why your reasoning is wrong. You claim the risk 'practically' is non-existant because the victim now has to dock and get another ship or call corpmates to defend his loot. But that is how EVE works. Theoretically, when you gank a miner in an asteroid field he COULD bring corpmates to defend him against your gank squad. Theoretically he can fit his barge with guns to fight you. Theoretically, he can come back in a PVP ship to fight you again. But PRACTICALLY that rarely happens. BUT THE RISK IS STILL THERE, isn't it? So now you come along and ask CCP to change a mechanic based on practical risk when your entire defense against you ganking noobs is that there is a theoretical risk.
When it suits you, you use theoretical risk to defend your position. And when it suits you, you'll use practical risk (or the real risk) when it suits you. This, my friend, is double standard.
Quote: Your 'NO Support' is duly STILL noted .. please leave the thread
Mr. Pitboss, you may be the boss of.... pits, I guess? But you're not the boss of me. You posted a thread in a public forum where it's open for debate, even for those that disagree with your views. Mr. Pitboss, you'll have to learn to accept that if you want to post your ideas here :)
You have a wonderful nite!
Sincerely,
Matrix Skye <3 <3 <3
Dear Mr. Skye, it seems that your whole argument revolves around your hatred towards Privateers. That's sad.
BTW, this issues doesn't only effect us, FW for example could greatly benefit from these changes.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.24 12:59:00 -
[420]
Originally by: spinarax Dear Mr. Skye, it seems that your whole argument revolves around your hatred towards Privateers. That's sad.
BTW, this issues doesn't only effect us, FW for example could greatly benefit from these changes.
You're spinning the issue again. And you keep avoiding the question. You claim there is no risk to a loot stealer. So then allow me to ask you again.
What is the risk to a gang that catches a miner or missioner (whether it be a wartarget or out in lo sec) in an asteroid field or deadspace?
And compare your answer to this quesiton:
What is the risk to a loot stealer that steals loot from a wreck that doesn't belong to him?
If you answer these questions sincerely and honestly you'll notice that either for both you point out practical risk or for both you point out theoretical risk.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.24 17:12:00 -
[421]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 24/05/2009 17:16:35
Originally by: Matrix Skye What is the risk to a gang that catches a miner or missioner (whether it be a wartarget or out in lo sec) in an asteroid field or deadspace?
Break it down more ... because you're assuming we're in a gang ... 1v1
You attack a target you're at war with ... you've spent your time tracking them down ... you attack them ... you're running the risk of losing YOUR ship ...
Many a times I've attacked a target 1v1 and got in over my head and lost my ship
Originally by: Matrix Skye What is the risk to a loot stealer that steals loot from a wreck that doesn't belong to him?
In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ...
victim is in a pod
victor is in a ship
loot thief is a ship
What exactly is the loot thief's risk ....
Ah yeah now i see it ... he risks having his feelings hurt because i dont thank him for taking my reward for my hard work
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.24 18:16:00 -
[422]
Originally by: The PitBoss You attack a target you're at war with ... you've spent your time tracking them down ... you attack them ... you're running the risk of losing YOUR ship ...
Probing a target down does NOT put you in practical risk and you KNOW it. :). That's virtually non-existent risk. The only risk is you losing your time. Now IÆm not saying youÆre wrong. But what IÆm saying is if youÆre going to claim practical non-existent risk IS risk then stop saying that loot thieves have no risk, because they do :).
Quote: Many a times I've attacked a target 1v1 and got in over my head and lost my ship
Even assuming that you jump on a miner or mission-runner 1v1 YOU WILL HAVE the upper hand. If you donÆt then youÆre doing it wrong . Mission ship or mining ship RARELY has scrambler/disruptor. So if youÆre losing ships to them many times then wow, youÆre either full of lose or sh**. Choose one.
Quote: In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ...
victim is in a pod
victor is in a ship
loot thief is a ship
What exactly is the loot thief's risk ....
Ah yeah now i see it ... he risks having his feelings hurt because i dont thank him for taking my reward for my hard work
And here you just make it very clear that you have a problem with non-practical risk with loot thieves. But you donÆt have a problem with the non-practical virtually non-existent risk in you attacking a miner or mission runner. This is very hypocritical of you. Mind you Eve is a game where even if the risk is non-practical it still is valid no matter how improbable it is. For example gate camps. YouÆre familiar with these as you run them occasionally :). Sure, there is the risk that a war target will call for reinforcements and they will make it on time to save him from the impending doom of your gate camp. But practically that RARELY happens. Yet the risk is still there. Just because the victim chooses not to come back to defend HIS wreck (not YOURS) doesnÆt mean the risk isnÆt there. And you definitely canÆt get mad because the loot stealer got to the loot before you did. You can fix this problem easily, as said before; get a dedicated looter. Problem solved. If youÆre too lazy or too unmotivated to loot or assign a looter, then you donÆt deserve that loot anyway. Very simple.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.24 20:23:00 -
[423]
A thread about Salvaging is never complete without Matrix Skye white knighting for the Missionrunners of New Eden and misrepresenting the facts.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.24 20:34:00 -
[424]
Quote: But what IÆm saying is if youÆre going to claim practical non-existent risk IS risk then stop saying that loot thieves have no risk, because they do :).
There isn't enough risk for loot thieves. For all other actions in game that a player takes that involves another player, there is a fairly balanced risk that it'll blow up in their face. Loot thief empties the wreck and then can instantly dock or warp away without anyone doing anything, unless the original owner returns in time to reclaim the materials. We both know how likely this is. There are options for dealing with people's actions in everything else in Eve, why not this? I want MY spoils of war, and I want the bastard that stole from me to be flagged so I at least have the legal option to hand him his ass for mucking about with my fun. This is not too much to ask.
Quote: You can fix this problem easily, as said before; get a dedicated looter. Problem solved.
The only people that act as dedicated looters in pvp are the vultures that stumble upon an opportunity to take the spoils from someone else. No pvp gang worth a **** is ever going to assign a dedicated looter. Putting all the loot in one place to be destroyed? ******ed. Expecting anyone to accept that job, when there are actually fun things they could be doing? Really ******ed.
And what about jita, or similar high traffic systems? You think a dedicated looter is going to win more times than not against all the neutrals that swarm anything that moves, waiting for a wreck? You idea is a good one, and good strategy, but you can't honestly believe that this is an emergent profession in Eve's PVP gangs. If you tell me it is, you're blowing smoke up my ass. One person in a gang may be chosen to pick loot, but that's for after the pew pew is finished. Nobody but the criminally insane will choose such a narrow game play role that basically excludes them from anything fun. Join me again to chase our own tails?
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The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.24 21:17:00 -
[425]
Edited by: The Jackhammer on 24/05/2009 21:17:39
Originally by: The PitBoss In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ...
victim is in a pod
victor is in a ship
loot thief is a ship
What exactly is the loot thief's risk ....
THIS
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Solo Player
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Posted - 2009.05.25 12:50:00 -
[426]
This thread should have died months ago. Maybe someone needs to come up with a better/more balanced idea since obviously the OP's has not succeeded in raising enough support.
As it is, the current suggestion will likely imbalance the situation more than it is currently skewed. Imagine:
A young capsuleer encounters a deserted battlefield. Some wrecks have not been looted, possibly due to them not yielding anything worth taking for the veteran combatants. Short on .isk, the young capsuleer cannot resist the temptation.
A corporate pilot has barely survived an ambush by a rival corporation's roamer. The battle has cost him and he feels entitled to the loot the aggressor has left behind. Woe him, as a specialized human vulture in a fast ship has been waiting for this moment and will now quickly swoop in and ransack all the best loot on the field.
Suicide gankers have just ganked a mining op by a alliance friendly to you. One of their ilk has waited at a safe distance and is now coming in to collect the spoils of their efforts. You will not let this injustice stand and hurry over to deny them.
Neither the current system nor the one proposed here likely works out in all these situation to everyone's satisfaction.
Things to consider: - why should shooting a ship make you the legal new owner of the spoils? - why should stealing property automatically give anyone the right to kill you and your crew?
Consider this from the perspective of those that decide what is right and what isn't in Empire space: the Empires.
Maybe an Empire - would consider a ship's property forfeit under certain circumstances? - would give a capsuleer the exclusive right to salvage under certain other circumstances? - would not intervene at all in such trivial matters?
Discuss, but better: make a new thread.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.25 16:07:00 -
[427]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 25/05/2009 16:07:43
Originally by: Solo Player This thread should have died months ago. Maybe someone needs to come up with a better/more balanced idea since obviously the OP's has not succeeded in raising enough support.
:: SNIP ::
Don't try to NECRO my thread ... still plenty of discussion AND support going on here ...
ALOT more interest and activity than the majority out there
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.25 16:35:00 -
[428]
Originally by: The Jackhammer Edited by: The Jackhammer on 24/05/2009 21:17:39
Originally by: The PitBoss In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ...
victim is in a pod
victor is in a ship
loot thief is a ship
What exactly is the loot thief's risk ....
THIS
I'm sure that mission-running ship or mining ship had a real good chance at popping your PVP gank-squad |
The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.25 17:57:00 -
[429]
Edited by: The Jackhammer on 25/05/2009 18:00:03
Originally by: Matrix Skye I'm sure that mission-running ship or mining ship had a real good chance at popping your PVP gank-squad
Although I should be considered a weapon of mass destruction ...
One person does not constitute a 'Gank Squad'
Read the quote ... 3 different people in a field with 3 different agendas
Get over yourself
BTW its funny you're assuming that the person in the field is running a mission or mining ... Welcome to eve ... there are a few more reasons to be in a field ... but those you constantly state are the only ones that help your argument and make him look all soooo defenseless.
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Senyru Suru
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.25 19:11:00 -
[430]
Originally by: The PitBoss Don't try to NECRO my thread ... still plenty of discussion AND support going on here ...
wow - you guys have been discussing this for more than a year now - how long do this things usually take to be accepted or rejected?
it seems to be that at the moment, the game mechanic is skewed in favour of the looter - but equally, i think the suggested solutions on the front page put the favour far too much in the favour of the winner of a fight. if those were implmented, wouldn't it make it far more viable to suicide gank someone, then come back in another ship and sweep up all the loot because you know no one else would pinch it while you were getting in a new ship?
also, it doesn't seem realistic. if this were a real scenario, the loot and salvage would be available to anyone who turned up. it should be possible to play as a rouge type character, sneaking in and stealing the loot. equally, in a real scenario, if you'd just won the fight, then you'd be able to start shooting any looter that turned up, without fear of Concord intervention.
i liked the idea someone suggested about any player that loots from a player wreck loses their Concord protection for a short time. adds risk to the looter, but also doesn't just hand the loot to the winner of a fight on a silver plate. -- --- one day we're all gonna die, and then we'll see who's laughing! |
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Zerethano
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:42:00 -
[431]
absolutely valid! dual flagging to can owner AND destroyer of ship looks like valid solution.
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Cyber Blue
Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:57:00 -
[432]
I can see what these guys are trying to say to a point. However, I do not believe the solution is completely valid. If operating in High Sec it is a fact that CONCORD does not allow one to destroy another pilot's ship without them getting involved. Even if that person is a loot thief, you do not have the right to attack them without CONCORD intervention except in the case if it is your loot because you just got wacked bye someone. Blowing someone up does not mean you now own their stuff.
One crime does not allow another crime to be valid. It does seem though that the crime of stealing is somewhat being allowed without much risk. So, what is there to be done? How about all crimes in High Sec be considered felonies, so to speak, thus allowing all pilots to utilize citizen arrest for crimes (blowing up offenders ship).
Attacking someone, you flash red to all. Stealing from someone, you flash red to all. A War Dec nullifies all involvement from CONCORD and standard citizens. Meaning, if someone comes along and steals loot from the wreck of someone's war target, they in essence are making themselves war targets by getting involved in the dispute.
I guess what it boils down to is the policy does seem to need some re-examing to determine what is fair and balanced for everyone.
End of line... |
NickSuccorso
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:54:00 -
[433]
Quote: it should be possible to play as a rouge type character, sneaking in and stealing the loot.
Absolutely, but if you're gonna plan a robbery, you have to also plan your escape and how dangerous it becomes getting away from the scene also.
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Pigsie
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Posted - 2009.05.29 12:41:00 -
[434]
Edited by: Pigsie on 29/05/2009 12:41:21 This is crazy and unfair. Show us the flags!
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Raukho
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.05.29 12:45:00 -
[435]
agreed
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Donder Wolkje
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Posted - 2009.05.29 15:28:00 -
[436]
dual wreck ownership to the killer and the victims corp. YES!
And looting shouldnt be made impossible, but realistically risky business.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:46:00 -
[437]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:32:00 -
[438]
yar ill bite
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Carnelian X
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Posted - 2009.05.29 23:56:00 -
[439]
support
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Alexis Cato
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:23:00 -
[440]
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Merw
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.05.30 19:02:00 -
[441]
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Dictum Factum
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.31 02:06:00 -
[442]
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Gay Deceiver
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Posted - 2009.05.31 04:04:00 -
[443]
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Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.31 14:30:00 -
[444]
__
Recruiting
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Bret Caliaro
Catalyst Banking Leather Rose Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.31 14:31:00 -
[445]
Edited by: Bret Caliaro on 31/05/2009 14:35:59 supported
Edit:
It is annoying when you have a group of neutrels following the ship ur pvping against at 0m waiting to grab the loot with no repercussions. I was fighting a war in a mission hub and this was terrible with a swarm of neutrels hugged targets waiting just to swip the loot then sit there while you can't do anything. _________________________________________________
I'm a such a lazy Bast***, so I play smart not hard. |
ViRUS Pottage
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.31 15:47:00 -
[446]
Supported 100%
PVPers need more reward! _________
Originally by: CCP Taera
May I have your stuff?
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Pajama Sam
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:38:00 -
[447]
Supported.
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Dex Atherton
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Posted - 2009.06.01 05:39:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Zerethano absolutely valid! dual flagging to can owner AND destroyer of ship looks like valid solution.
Supporting dual flagging.
Also, this applies to Salvage rights as well, correct? Cause ninja salvaging is way out of wack with regard to risk/reward.
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Ris Dnalor
Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2009.06.01 07:34:00 -
[449]
I'd prefer if all space was made 0.0, CONCORD was deposed and tossed out on it's ear, and let the corporations defend themselves. Then if someone tried to nick your stuffs you could protect your own rights ;)
but in lieu of that, more flagging to allow people to fight over stuffs floating in space sounds good too.
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2009.06.01 11:43:00 -
[450]
Yeah... the wreck should not be owned only by the pod sitting there unable to do anything about looting... it should be owned by both the slain and the slayer. Grabbing from it should = a blinking status for both sides of the fight.
A 'targeted' wreck should not be salvageable by neutrals, either (just like a targeted ship cannot be boarded). This will prevent interlopers from snapping up your target, but not completely disable ninja-salvaging.
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Yorba
Gemini Technologies
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Posted - 2009.06.01 16:34:00 -
[451]
Supported!
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Unfamed II
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Posted - 2009.06.01 21:20:00 -
[452]
Supporting because that patriwhat(?) is such a huge ***got and deserves to lose an internet arguement.
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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Minkert
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Posted - 2009.06.02 00:58:00 -
[453]
/signed
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Kadere Isendre
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.06.02 03:13:00 -
[454]
Agreed - a pvper puts his own ship at risk to obtain the loot that his enemy drops - it is only fair that he may take revenge if someone else exploits his hard work. |
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.06.03 03:11:00 -
[455]
Supported. Should have been made consistent with the loot ownership regarding NPC wrecks in the first place (You blow it up, the loot is yours)
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Arwen Tyler
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Posted - 2009.06.03 06:49:00 -
[456]
How about flag this loot thief to EVERYONE, as he would be a thief and thus all would have a chance to dish out justice ?
Guess then the next question would be who the wreck belongs to, the origional owner of the stuff he stole or the person who destroyed him
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Serret Nevets
Pigs In Space United Proletariat Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.14 02:12:00 -
[457]
support |
Georgina Eldridge
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Posted - 2009.06.14 02:47:00 -
[458]
Yes. |
ChinaWillGrowLarger
Heretic Command
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Posted - 2009.06.14 10:06:00 -
[459]
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Shea Klant
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Posted - 2009.06.14 17:49:00 -
[460]
nope don't support this |
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Bad Harlequin
Raiders of the Open Stars
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Posted - 2009.06.14 19:34:00 -
[461]
Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 14/06/2009 19:36:55
Originally by: TEK9 /signed
I have no objection to anyone trying to steal my loot, I just want to be able to shoot them if they do.
Edit: The only downside i see concern about is rewarding suicide gankers. I don't think this helps them much. In fact, it may drive them nuts. So you're flagged to the suicide ganker... so you run away giggling with his loot while has to go get another ship. You wait out the timer, or come out with something that can kill him. Worst thing you can do to them imho
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Jeremey
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2009.06.15 02:45:00 -
[462]
Fully supported.
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Twilight Magester
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 07:34:00 -
[463]
makes sense /signed
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Dakron Argile
THE FINAL STAND Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 18:45:00 -
[464]
I'm in agreement with this. Nothing bothers me more, than some joker in a n00bship that's been playing a week and a half yoinking the loot off the guy in a T2 ship that I just killed - followed by him salvaging it.
I will say, however, that the flagging should only be for the person(s) on the killmail - not the whole corp/alliance of the person(s) on the killmail. That'd be a little much, I think. And, of course, the original owner of the ship would also have the rights to shoot along with his corp - that shouldn't change.
"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream by night." -E.A. Poe |
Laruant Wiggins
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.07.06 23:37:00 -
[465]
/signed
As someone new (5 days) and not planing on PVPing soon, if I steal your loot you should be able to shoot me without CONCORD getting involved. Not sure about Corp/Alliance flag though (knee jerk reaction - no).
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Velvet Sinner
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 01:15:00 -
[466]
Loot, yes.
Salvage, no. Salvage doesn't belong to anyone.
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Johncrab
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 22:40:00 -
[467]
Still waiting for this... Signed |
The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.11 07:59:00 -
[468]
Hi CCP .. remember me
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
khazid
Privateers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 17:42:00 -
[469]
/sign |
Cortex Reaver
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 20:10:00 -
[470]
Edited by: Cortex Reaver on 20/07/2009 20:14:21
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 23/05/2008 12:06:25 Personally I don't think so. Strictly speaking, these 'spoils of battle' do not change ownership just because you blow their ships up. Think about it, how can you put a claim on something before you've grabbed it off the enemy carcass?
edit: grammar
If I created the carcass what's in it is mine not yours.
This really is a very silly mechanic that needs fixing and I've been pirating low sec for the last few years until very recently and not even had the occasion to be annoyed by this yet but it's a given that it shouldn't work the way it does at present!
/Signed
-CR
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Belmarduk
Imperial Shipment
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 06:03:00 -
[471]
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 09:11:00 -
[472]
No
|
Rojo Ocho
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 14:07:00 -
[473]
Agreed
|
Sans Honore
Wirfadam Productions LTD
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 15:09:00 -
[474]
Strongly supported
|
U'los Riddick
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 16:10:00 -
[475]
Originally by: The PitBoss Edited by: The PitBoss on 24/05/2008 14:39:10
The looter takes no risk to reap a HUGE reward at times ... IF it is just salvage .. why is the looter flagged to the person whose ship it was
As I see it: How is this a problem? It's not salvage so the looter is flagged to owner of the property that is taken. If you targetted and fired on the person stealing surely your problems would be solved? NOTABLE POINTS: 1. You want more reward. Get it some other way...
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 16:38:00 -
[476]
Ridiculous.
You may have blown up a ship, but the modules inside the wreck are still not yours. If your loot alt isn't fast enough to scoop it up, that's your own fault.
And your reward is winning the battle. How about this instead, loot inside a ship's wreck is untouchable for 20 minutes after a battle, thus giving the loser 15mins to drop aggression and 5 minutes to pick up what crap survived. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Armoured C
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 16:51:00 -
[477]
totally supported
ooh hiya boss :)
support stop selling alliance tourney places post
Armoured C forum extrodinare |
The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 19:43:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Awesome Possum ... And your reward is winning the battle ...
You gotta be the type of TOOL that opts for the 'VERBAL' tip (ie. great job!) when you go out to the restaurant/bar .. RATHER .. than the CASH tip ...
'VERBAL' tips don't pay the bills
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
|
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 19:49:00 -
[479]
Originally by: The Jackhammer
Originally by: Awesome Possum ... And your reward is winning the battle ...
You gotta be the type of TOOL that opts for the 'VERBAL' tip (ie. great job!) when you go out to the restaurant/bar .. RATHER .. than the CASH tip ...
'VERBAL' tips don't pay the bills
Damn straight, gratuities are for above par service. I'm not paying someone's wages for vanilla waitressing, that's the restaurant's job.
If you/they don't like it, get a job that pays more than $2/hr. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
The Jackhammer
Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 21:47:00 -
[480]
Originally by: Awesome Possum Damn straight, gratuities are for above par service. I'm not paying someone's wages for vanilla waitressing, that's the restaurant's job.
If you/they don't like it, get a job that pays more than $2/hr.
Thats just showing how ignorant you are ...
1. You've obviously never had to work for tips (ie. someone elses generosity)
2. If you can't afford to tip .. stay your cheap ass home.
3. Servers/bartenders have to pay taxes on what they sell REGUARDLESS of wether you tip or not
4. As for working a 2$/hr job ... if they took away tipping that wage would drastically go up ... along with meals/drinks AND you couldn't afford to go out in the first place ... which obviously you can't do .. so save the headache .. SEE #2
... Back to the topic
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
|
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Sombra Escarlate
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:35:00 -
[481]
Edited by: Sombra Escarlate on 02/08/2009 09:36:43 its theft that should have concequences for the offender i agree with the offender being flagged to the killed and the pilots on the kill mail and also getting a timer so they cant dock or jump for 60 seconds \o/
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Trinity Nova
Amarr Unaccompanied Souls
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 11:04:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Awesome Possum Ridiculous. You may have blown up a ship, but the modules inside the wreck are still not yours. If your loot alt isn't fast enough to scoop it up, that's your own fault.
Hey warfighter take a break you don't have to be a r3tard every time you make a post. Solo Blog
Solo Corp
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:34:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Sombra Escarlate Edited by: Sombra Escarlate on 02/08/2009 09:36:43 its theft that should have concequences for the offender i agree with the offender being flagged to the killed and the pilots on the kill mail and also getting a timer so they cant dock or jump for 60 seconds \o/
Stealing loot should flag one for _ALL_ players in system, cause you know stealing loot is wrong.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:41:00 -
[484]
Originally by: The Jackhammer
'VERBAL' tips don't pay the bills
Wars don't pay the bills. I think that's simple logic.
CCP has already stated that they aren't going to change this, in case people didn't notice.
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Xorth Adimus
The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:02:00 -
[485]
I agree on the npc corp issue it is an alt abuse imo and I would go further.
Anyone not in corp taking from your wreck should be flagged in any system including 0.0 as an agressive act, Ie they can't jump immediatly.
Killrights should not be given in 0.0 as is correct however an eve mail should sent to the owner so you can find and shame/ kill the little ****.
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sukmanobov
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 10:57:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon How about coding something that does not allow NPC corp pilots to loot any PC wreck that they are not on the killmail for or any NPC wreck that they did not contribute damage to. This would solve a few issues.
Don't know if this is possible, but it is an idea that I have not seen mentioned in my scanning.
Slade
They would just move to a player corp.
they would also just rotate corps to keep from being decced. Main + Alt = 6 possible corps tha gotta be over 1bill to dec all six :( --------------------------------
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Dark Threat
|
Posted - 2009.08.03 15:28:00 -
[487]
AGREE!
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Silmaire
Privateers
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 01:50:00 -
[488]
/agreed
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Eato
Wrath of Fenris
|
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:32:00 -
[489]
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.08.05 01:54:00 -
[490]
Originally by: The Jackhammer
Originally by: Awesome Possum Damn straight, gratuities are for above par service. I'm not paying someone's wages for vanilla waitressing, that's the restaurant's job.
If you/they don't like it, get a job that pays more than $2/hr.
Thats just showing how ignorant you are ...
1. You've obviously never had to work for tips (ie. someone elses generosity)
2. If you can't afford to tip .. stay your cheap ass home.
3. Servers/bartenders have to pay taxes on what they sell REGUARDLESS of wether you tip or not
4. As for working a 2$/hr job ... if they took away tipping that wage would drastically go up ... along with meals/drinks AND you couldn't afford to go out in the first place ... which obviously you can't do .. so save the headache .. SEE #2
... Back to the topic
Yay thread derailment!
Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. I'm fully aware of whiny waitstaff arguments for tipping.
1. You're right, because I prefer to be paid what I'm worth, not have to rely on the pity of people I'm hauling food and drinks to.
2. I can afford to tip, and I do tip a minimum of 20%.. for those who earn it with superior service. And you know what? If you consistently go to a restaurant, and consistently tip great service, and blow off bad service... people catch on.
3. They have to admit to the tips first before they can pay taxes on 'em. How many waiters can you name that only claim tips that are paper trailed via credit cards? I can name... well every waiter friend I've ever had.
4. Insults get you no where in a debate. You're ugly, obviously you're all about mandatory gratuities and cashing out, since pretty waiters get tipped more often and in higher amounts. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
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Pawus Deco
Scalar Tech
|
Posted - 2009.08.11 19:40:00 -
[491]
/signed
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Epegi Givo
Araja clan
|
Posted - 2009.08.12 06:38:00 -
[492]
Most people will say "Hey, if you kill someone IRL, all their stuff wouldn't go to you, it would go to his family (Which a corp is as close as pod-pilots come to families).
However, this isn't RL. This is internet spaceships. Yes, the current mechanic is dumb.
yes, this idea is a great improvement. ------------------------------------- My other alt is a Ferrari
Binary Translator |
Lilith Wolf
Temporary Stasis
|
Posted - 2009.08.21 09:52:00 -
[493]
Edited by: Lilith Wolf on 21/08/2009 09:52:44
How about we get a statement from CCP ? This bull**** has been in the Game for far to long.
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Pherusa Plumosa
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.08.22 00:12:00 -
[494]
+1 __________________________________________________
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zombiedeadhead
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.08.22 06:01:00 -
[495]
Signed.
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Audi Amarr
Privateers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.23 12:25:00 -
[496]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 23/05/2008 12:06:25 Personally I don't think so. Strictly speaking, these 'spoils of battle' do not change ownership just because you blow their ships up. Think about it, how can you put a claim on something before you've grabbed it off the enemy carcass?
edit: grammar
Shut it ^
Agreed on both topics posted: If you loot the ship, you should be Flagged by Everyone on the Killmail, lets keep it fair. This should also flag you and start an Aggression countdown not allowing you to run and Dock right away.
CCP youÆre playing too hard for the Carebare, we also play and have rights. Consider this on your next Nerf/Decision plz.
"To Punish and Enslave - The True Amarr Way"
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Dalwin
|
Posted - 2009.08.23 17:19:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Skogen Gump I definitely support this. Whilst I agree there should be some moderation in what you can actually do, wreck looting is a punishment-less crime at the moment.
For example, in Frarn there is a rogue looter who steals items from LVL4 missions, apparently by scanning them down. How can this be fair to the person running the mission?
Someone suggested that it makes sense that you can't 'claim' something you've just killed, but I'm sure you could call it in terms of Salvage rights - perhaps this could be a voluntary thing ? you can opt to let anyone loot your wrecks, or that it only be members of you gang/corp/alliance ?
Anyway - I strongly support this, it's incredibly frustrating to have your loot pinched.
I agree with the OP fully, but also like your idea about being able to waive your loot rights. It is pretty common that I am mining in and area where I leave behind a bunch of npc wrecks that I have no intention of picking up.
I'd just as soon give them to someone else, or even just open them to all comers.
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Dalwin
|
Posted - 2009.08.23 17:24:00 -
[498]
Edited by: Dalwin on 23/08/2009 17:25:53
Originally by: Sigul Siento Edited by: Sigul Siento on 23/05/2008 13:18:13
Originally by: The Jackhammer
Then why is it when someone loots from an NPC wreck i've risked my ship to kill is FLAGGED to me ...
PLEASE ... TELL me the difference ...
/support
The DIFFERENCE, is that NPC's are there to provide pve. It would be meaningless if dead NPC's should have the lootrights to their own wrecks.
But why should you get rights to the loot of someone you just attacked? It would make no sense if the game mechanics were to say that the wreckage/loot of a player ship blown up as a result of unprovoked aggression were to belong to the aggressor.
The system is fine as it is.
Your reply would make more sense if the looter were at least in the original victim's corp or possibly even alliance.
The complaint here is that a unrelated 3rd party is able to safely steal from a wreck to which he clearly has no right at all.
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Yakov Draken
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.08.23 21:16:00 -
[499]
Edited by: Yakov Draken on 23/08/2009 21:16:09 Supported
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Mace Gando
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 20:38:00 -
[500]
i totally agree happened to me when i pirated all the time
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Berdoff Manard
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 22:31:00 -
[501]
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Berdoff Manard
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 22:31:00 -
[502]
oops I forgot the checkbox
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.30 00:17:00 -
[503]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 30/08/2009 00:20:38 If you ever stepped foot into low sec, 0.0 or wormhole space, then you would be able to shoot them if you wanted.
Have you guys ever tried those areas of the game?
EDIT: On another note, it is your own fault anyways. You normally have 20 people there for the one kill and alts not in privateers to remote rep you guys, so between the 30+ people you have there to loot the wreck it is snatched up my some other guy, then good for that other guy for actually dragging and dropping faster.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.08.30 03:42:00 -
[504]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 30/08/2009 03:46:21
Originally by: Marlona Sky Have you guys ever tried those areas of the game?
Why when we can take ships from you guys without having to travel: CLICKY
1 year 3 months / 17 pages of replies / this thread ... Funny you didn't have anything constructive to say UNTIL our war dec went active
BTW: Fail attempt on making this a Privateer issue rather than a game mechanic issue ...
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.08.30 15:15:00 -
[505]
Originally by: The PitBoss Edited by: The PitBoss on 30/08/2009 03:46:21
Originally by: Marlona Sky Have you guys ever tried those areas of the game?
Why when we can take ships from you guys without having to travel: CLICKY
1 year 3 months / 17 pages of replies / this thread ... Funny you didn't have anything constructive to say UNTIL our war dec went active
BTW: Fail attempt on making this a Privateer issue rather than a game mechanic issue ...
My appologies on not using kid gloves on this thread. I was simply being blunt on the facts. Let me rephrase in a more loving and less offensive way so no parties that read this do not get @#$%hurt over it.
Like in all games, the mechanics of the game have to have a balance to them. Pro's and Con's if you will.
Empire war decs have the leasure of being able to eliminate most peoples involvment in your combat because they can't shoot or they will be Concorded you see? Thus for those parties not involved in the war dec are very limited in what they can do outside of just watching the fight. They can assist one of the parties and become flagged and be a part of the fight, or they can try thier luck and see if they can 'steal' from a wreck of one of the victims of the battle. I am sure there are some other ways but back to my point.
By stealing, they are flagged to the owner of the wreck and the corp the owner is part of, provided it is not a npc corp. This can be done by simply dragging and dropping the items from the wreck to thier own cargo bay. Just like the attacker can do.
By your suggestion, they would become flagged not only to the owners corporation but to those involved in killing said person as well. This would throw off the balance of high sec war decs. Your suggestion would gear this mechanic more towards "Hello Kitty" style game play or like when two WoW players drop a flag and duel. Extremely boring.
The current mechanic works fine. If you want the loot, simply be faster at stealing. After all, they are stealing from the owner of the wreck, not you. There is no major issue (if any) at all.
No support.
BTW: 1 year 3 months / 17 pages of replies / this thread ... Privateers have war deced TRI well more than just this one time. I promise you it is coincidence that I replied during one of your alliances war decs on us. I was compeled to be blunt about the fact of that out of all the people who could have stolen the loot from the privateers side they are complaining about neutral parties stealing before them. So enough of the kill mail linking, spinning of words, desperate attempts to turn attention away from the fact that because someone was able to drag and drop faster than you, you want a game mechanic changed.
I hope this reply was more affectionate and loving and no feeling were hurt in the process. I you still feel that you need to link more killboards, or discuss your war decs, no one is stoping you from starting a thread on COAD.
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Slave 775
Privateers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 13:31:00 -
[506]
Edited by: Slave 775 on 04/09/2009 13:31:00
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 01/09/2009 12:41:18
By your suggestion, they would become flagged not only to the owners corporation but to those involved in killing said person as well. This would throw off the balance of high sec war decs. Your suggestion would gear this mechanic more towards "Hello Kitty" style game play or like when two WoW players drop a flag and duel. Extremely boring.
Please excuse my harsh words, if your responce was ironic or sarcastic and i didn't notice it.
But this is by far the dumbest thing i saw in this whole thread. Not thinking much lately aren't we ?
Centuries ago, the Bible warned of dangers posed by evil men described as master[s] at evil ideas and scheming to do bad. (Proverbs 24:8) PRIVATEERS Officialy nerfed by CCP 05/07 |
Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 14:01:00 -
[507]
Edited by: Tiny Tove on 04/09/2009 14:04:20 This is about dual pvp wreck ownership yes? Yes. Good. Support that. It would be a great step forward, with no drawbacks.
Edit: No, it's about parallel or multiple wreck ownership. Still Supported!
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 15:15:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Slave 775 Edited by: Slave 775 on 04/09/2009 13:31:00
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 01/09/2009 12:41:18
By your suggestion, they would become flagged not only to the owners corporation but to those involved in killing said person as well. This would throw off the balance of high sec war decs. Your suggestion would gear this mechanic more towards "Hello Kitty" style game play or like when two WoW players drop a flag and duel. Extremely boring.
Please excuse my harsh words, if your responce was ironic or sarcastic and i didn't notice it.
But this is by far the dumbest thing i saw in this whole thread. Not thinking much lately aren't we ?
Nice informative reply.
I am simply saying because some one steals faster than you, you want a game mechanic change implimented.
That is the OP's argument correct? I mean take away all the sugar coating and fluff and that is what is left. Correct me if I am wrong.
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Sanguis Fluibant
The Guiding Greg Social and Best Friend Club
|
Posted - 2009.09.05 20:09:00 -
[509]
/signed
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ElCholo
Privateers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.09.21 23:54:00 -
[510]
I support this cause / post.
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Gideon Kross
PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:20:00 -
[511]
Can't believe I'm actually agreeing with a Privateer...
I Support the concept, and I think I have a thoery on how it could be coded (post to appear soonÖ).
Good Stuff PB.
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
|
Posted - 2009.09.22 20:23:00 -
[512]
this looks like an opportunity to say Tallywackers! + LDS @ Bclnc
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Xelius Dax
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.09.23 04:13:00 -
[513]
I support this request.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:28:00 -
[514]
Just a little bump
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
De'Veldrin
Special Projects Executive
|
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:41:00 -
[515]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 30/10/2009 20:47:10
Originally by: Audi Amarr CCP youÆre playing too hard for the Carebare, we also play and have rights. Consider this on your next Nerf/Decision plz.
Actually, you don't have rights. You have the priviledge, granted by CCP, to log in. That's all any of us has. You may leave your sense of self-entitlement at the door.
Edit: I went back and read the OP for this thread. It's been kikcing around a while now.
I'd support a dual flagging mechanic. --Vel
In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d. |
Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel.
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 02:52:00 -
[516]
it should be like this:
Kill someone in a way that does NOT incur GCC (0.0, wartarget, they aggressed you first) = loot is yours
Kill them in a way that DOES incur GCC = wreck it theirs, and if someone ninjas the loot they are flagged to the victim.
That seems fair to me, and ostensibly as a pirate it would be to my "disadvantage" ;)
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Biku Edwuan
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 11:43:00 -
[517]
+1
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MS5
|
Posted - 2009.10.31 14:59:00 -
[518]
/support
|
Komi Toran
|
Posted - 2009.11.02 06:53:00 -
[519]
Fully support bringing PvP loot ownership in line with PvE loot ownership...
...it's just that I think the loot should still "belong" to the thing that was killed in both cases, not the thing doing the killing. That way, in one action you'd remove the one game mechanic that two groups of whiners like to point at to support their whines (yes, I'm grouping the people in support of this change in with those who complain about ninja salvaging).
As has been stated, if you want to be able to shoot the person taking from the wrecks of ships you killed, it's time to come out from under CONCORD's skirt and fight in lowsec/0.0.
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Slave 775
Ministry of Punishment Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 23:19:00 -
[520]
Just had loot stolen again.
now CCP may i ask how difficult it was to make:
Cans belonge to the one who drops it. NPC Wrecks belonge to the one who started the Mission. Make a wreck flag free for all (and if you get concorded because of a suicide run, make the suicideganker wreck free for all)
Must be difficult to programm a solution to our problem.
Centuries ago, the Bible warned of dangers posed by evil men described as master[s] at evil ideas and scheming to do bad. (Proverbs 24:8) PRIVATEERS Officialy nerfed by CCP 05/07 |
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Berendas
Monolithic.
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 23:24:00 -
[521]
Supported, its fine if people can take from my kill, just let me shoot them for it
|
flakeys
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.02.17 19:00:00 -
[522]
Signed
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S'Way
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.02.17 19:01:00 -
[523]
Signed |
Shodai
|
Posted - 2010.02.17 19:06:00 -
[524]
Agree
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Jerid Verges
|
Posted - 2010.02.17 20:48:00 -
[525]
Not supported.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2010.02.17 22:02:00 -
[526]
Edited by: CyberGh0st on 17/02/2010 22:07:53
Not signed, it is like ninja salvaging, rogue looters have their place, just be faster or just kill them ...
If you are talking about highsec and crying about how suicide ganking is too hard, then LOL.
And for Empire Wars, I think everything is balanced.
Go to lowsec, 0.0 or wormhole space if you want to shoot rogue looters, just as missioners have to go to lowsec to avoid or shoot ninja salvagers.
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.02.17 22:35:00 -
[527]
This idea is truly hilarious, everything the carebear ninja salvage moaners said about the hypocrisy of pvpers is true. What a load of total ****, I hope all you who supported this idea DIAF (in game).
Honestly quite pathetic hypocrisy.
Is this actually a very good troll ? --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.02.17 22:40:00 -
[528]
Originally by: Berendas Supported, its fine if people can take from my kill, just let me shoot them for it
Try pvping somewhere other than hisec then --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Jugger Takashi
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.19 01:11:00 -
[529]
Fix this, or remove it on everything, and my alts will make sure a missioneer never sees another bit of loot again, ever.....
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Slimy Worm
Vivicide Vivisection.
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Posted - 2010.02.19 09:20:00 -
[530]
Originally by: CyberGh0st Edited by: CyberGh0st on 17/02/2010 22:20:18
Not supported!
This proposal is just as carebear as proposing loot rights on salvage. Ninja salvaging has it's place, just as rogue looters have their place, just be faster or kill them ...
If you are talking about highsec, then tough luck, it is highsec, you can't shoot rogue looters just as you can't shoot ninja salvagers When stealing loot you get flagged to the owner of the wreck, he can shoot you, and that is how it should be.
Go to lowsec, 0.0 or wormhole space if you want to shoot rogue looters, just as missioners have to go to lowsec to avoid or shoot ninja salvagers.
What's up with all these carebear PvP'ers in EVE these days, it seems they want everything for free, like insurance on suicide ganks, and can't handle someone stealing their stuff ...
Quoted.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.19 10:35:00 -
[531]
To add to this, what the OP is proposing is removing one of the drawbacks of highsec PvP ( and at the same time nerfing a mini profession, the rogue looter ), and therefore detracting from lowsec, 0.0, wormhole space and factional warfare pvp.
War decs in highsec are about having a way to destroy your enemy without being able to hide in highsec, it is not about getting loot imho.
It is very much comparable to people wanting Arena's and/or instanced PvP and/or duels in EVE, detracting from the other more pure forms of PvP which make EVE unique.
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
Slade Hoo
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.19 13:56:00 -
[532]
/signed ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
Snypar Australis
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:07:00 -
[533]
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RP McMurphy
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.19 21:55:00 -
[534]
Edited by: RP McMurphy on 19/02/2010 21:55:24 i agree!
Lock wrecks for x minutes/seconds (maybe 30secs or smth?) to owners corp and last hit pilot's corp. Most of the pew pew happens at stations and gates, where even flagged looters would simply dock or jump..
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 09:11:00 -
[535]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 20/02/2010 09:11:19 THE WRECK BELONGS TO THE PERSON WHO WAS FLYING IT AND THE CORP THEY ARE IN! HOW MANY TIMES IN HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS DOES IT NEED TO BE SAID TO YOU?
This game mechanic is working as intended.
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Rvlxnx
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Posted - 2010.02.20 19:58:00 -
[536]
Ahhh ye, i will have to say i do not agree, if these things were to be changed for fairness sake then it should also be changed when i (we = others like me ) go into low sec for better npc loots and get PK'd just for being there.
i may not be a pirate but if these things were changed where would a pirates life be at or where would the opportunities go for those who may be considering a life of piracy?
being a pirate as we all know is the ultimate freedom so to speak, live it, love it, dream it, soar angelic, i have often heard this in local: "if you are under war dec it is not a good idea to be running missions",.... for example....; and if you are a pirate and complaining about someone ganking your stuff,.. well... its all in the life of the life.
Have Fun, Good Luck, Fly Well, Fly Safe.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.21 17:46:00 -
[537]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 21/02/2010 17:48:45
Originally by: Marlona Sky THE WRECK BELONGS TO THE PERSON WHO WAS FLYING IT AND THE CORP THEY ARE IN! HOW MANY TIMES IN HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS DOES IT NEED TO BE SAID TO YOU?
This game mechanic is working as intended.
I just like bumping this thread every now and then SOLELY because i know it gets your panties in a bunch ...
enjoy
BTW: Is your alliance relevant anymore ? ... just sayin'
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.02.22 04:19:00 -
[538]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 22/02/2010 04:19:28
Originally by: The PitBoss I just like bumping this thread every now and then SOLELY because i know it gets your panties in a bunch ...
enjoy
BTW: Is your alliance relevant anymore ? ... just sayin'
I'm honored you feel that way about me.
BTW: Has your alliance ever been relevant? ... just sayin'
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.22 22:01:00 -
[539]
Originally by: Marlona Sky BTW: Has your alliance ever been relevant? ... just sayin'
So relevant that CCP NERFed us specifically ... ahhh how soon they forget ... mining must have fried your brain ...
BTW: Friendly bump
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Mrs Management
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Posted - 2010.02.23 11:19:00 -
[540]
Wreck is owned by the "final blow"
60 sec timer then open season.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.02.23 11:24:00 -
[541]
Originally by: Mrs Management Wreck is owned by the "final blow"
60 sec timer then open season.
That would just encourage whoever is attacking to fit high rof guns and stuff.
This is just a Privateers, "We camp Jita 4-4 and are tired of seeing people loot the stuff we kill and now we are mad!" thread. Let this ret@rded idea flush down the toilet instead or necroing it every time it falls off the top 10 pages of assembly hall.
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.06 15:53:00 -
[542]
Bump to the top for the new CSM to see
Hi Marlona
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
tezza22
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Posted - 2010.05.06 16:23:00 -
[543]
i agree 100% mate ur kill ur loot
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Xa'leb
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Posted - 2010.05.06 16:23:00 -
[544]
Agree with The PitBoss. It's just a bit frustrating.
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Julis Caesar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.06 16:53:00 -
[545]
Agree fully with PitBoss
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Lord Molly
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Posted - 2010.05.06 16:54:00 -
[546]
i think there should be a 30 second invul timer like when you undock or jump a gate and in that 30 seconds only people on the killmail can loot from the wreck
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darkdecyple
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:02:00 -
[547]
Scoop my loot, I get to shoot. That sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
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Oni Tweak
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:05:00 -
[548]
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Aviator Girl
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:07:00 -
[549]
Pretty much this.
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 20/02/2010 09:11:19 THE WRECK BELONGS TO THE PERSON WHO WAS FLYING IT AND THE CORP THEY ARE IN! HOW MANY TIMES IN HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS DOES IT NEED TO BE SAID TO YOU?
This game mechanic is working as intended.
The looter is flagged to the person who owns the wreck and thats the person who was flying the ship.
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Scapa
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:14:00 -
[550]
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Lani Sun
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:17:00 -
[551]
NOT SUPPORTED...Couldnt say it better myself so heres a repost.
Originally by: Patri Andari LOL You Are Joking Right?
Dude you are pirates using in game mechanics to get easy kills in high sec. You get to practice your craft while Concord looks the other way (for a fee). If you want the right to shoot neutrals that loot your kills I will give you the same advice that is given to Mission runners mad about loosing their salvage:
Get Out Of High Sec You Carebear!!
You want your cake and eat it too.
Following Priva-tear's gank squads around using their kill boards used to be a cottage industry. That is perhaps one reason the alliance took it down. Touche. Seems leadership back then was too proud to whine on forums about this issue. Instead the took steps to try and fix it on their own. So now the loot thieves have found new ways to follow you around. I applaud them for creating a new profession- Vultures
Pirates grief carebears in high sec with war decs to get easy kills and loot drops. Vultures grief pirates in high sec by legally taking the fruit of the kill before the pirate can claim it. Hmm sounds good to me.
If you are having trouble making isk from High Sec war decs you have options:
1. coordinate your gangs better and have a dedicated looter/salvager 2. move to low sec and kill everything (take a sec hit like other pirates do) 3. create an alt to make isk and pirate just for the pure fun of it instead of making isk from it. 4. choose a new profession all together as you SUCK at pirating.
Stop trying to make high sec into low sec or 0.0. Follow the advice you give carebears. 0.0 is the place where miners, ratters, mission runners and even Real Pirates make more isk and have game mechanics that support defending themselves and their spoils with no consequence.
STOP KILLING CAREBEARS. GROW A PAIR. MOVE TO 0.0!
Rant off/
Good Day
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Yusei Fudo
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:49:00 -
[552]
I agree, the current game mechanics are rough and need to be looked at again. That way it is a even playing field out in the space.
/support
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Balatar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
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Posted - 2010.05.06 18:51:00 -
[553]
Couldn't agree more - the only people who could possible object to this are those no risk losers that wait for the PvPers to do their work for them.
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RedFiber
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Posted - 2010.05.06 19:28:00 -
[554]
support big time!
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nautix
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Posted - 2010.05.06 19:30:00 -
[555]
I fully support this idea. (and not just because The Pit Boss is my mighty leader)
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.06 20:20:00 -
[556]
Supported!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Jin'Mei Caste
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.05.06 20:26:00 -
[557]
with out a dout looting should be flagged to all partys involved.. but maybe to all corp mates as well as kill mail partys...
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Baasima
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.06 21:02:00 -
[558]
/support
Tired of badgers sitting outside jita
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Sindri Muirin
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Posted - 2010.05.06 21:03:00 -
[559]
I support
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General PilotSlayer
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Posted - 2010.05.06 21:30:00 -
[560]
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Chico Treveller
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Posted - 2010.05.06 22:13:00 -
[561]
100% Agreed
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Marlona Sky
D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.05.06 22:22:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Baasima /support
Tired of badgers sitting outside jita
Leave Jita? v0v
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Rico Felix
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Posted - 2010.05.06 22:34:00 -
[563]
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Lmagno
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Posted - 2010.05.06 23:07:00 -
[564]
I¦m with you 100% Supported
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Amrikan
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Posted - 2010.05.06 23:26:00 -
[565]
EVE law is ******ed and needs reform badly. If my fleet kills a guy under a legal declaration of war, then you're damn right that the loot is ours, even for those of us that didn't land the killing blow.
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Jaror
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Posted - 2010.05.06 23:34:00 -
[566]
I totally suport pit boss on this should have been fixed long time ago this wont effect any one who dosnt try to steal loot
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RebelRogue
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Posted - 2010.05.07 01:52:00 -
[567]
Kill the loot gankers!!! Support
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GazaUnit
Ministry of Death Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.07 02:35:00 -
[568]
Supported
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Syris Anu
Evolutionary Pressure
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Posted - 2010.05.07 14:48:00 -
[569]
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Wiimus Prime
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
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Posted - 2010.05.08 02:06:00 -
[570]
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NovaWelther
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Posted - 2010.05.08 13:14:00 -
[571]
/support
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Decon Ko
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Posted - 2010.05.08 16:00:00 -
[572]
"1. BEFORE there were wrecks ... when you killed a Player Character's ship ... there were can drops ... IF you looted from them ... you were FLAGGED."
this won me, don't see why they would change how that works (not the -adding a wreck- part obviously). --
This: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1248088 |
Octavia Ceasar
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Posted - 2010.05.10 12:32:00 -
[573]
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Kiithnaras
Lethal Injection. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:13:00 -
[574]
/signed, sealed, and sent
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RedFiber
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Posted - 2010.06.29 02:49:00 -
[575]
100% support
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Imapimp Youdaho
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Posted - 2010.06.29 02:49:00 -
[576]
Support
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Sard Caid
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.06.29 04:24:00 -
[577]
+1
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Tharill daSai
Humanum Erectum Axiom Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.29 04:55:00 -
[578]
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.06.29 13:40:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Dav Varan No.
Wreck belongs to Victim.
Grow a pair and PVP in low sec / null sec rather than high sec suicide ganking then you can shoot anyone who goes for the loot.
Concord should not support suicide gankers.
Pretty much this, pvp is full of risks, this is just another of those risks.
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Jennifer Celeste
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Posted - 2010.06.29 18:14:00 -
[580]
Originally by: The PitBoss PPL TAKING FROM MAH PVP WRECKS ARE BAD MEN
bro...stop pvping on the jita undock. |
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Ilik Tanikalot
Black Rebel Rifter Club
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Posted - 2010.06.29 21:19:00 -
[581]
Edited by: Ilik Tanikalot on 29/06/2010 21:19:25 Edited by: Ilik Tanikalot on 29/06/2010 21:19:04 Supported.
Btw, this is not something about people grabbing the loot and running for the hills. It is about them being basically invincible, beside a suicide kill. ****ed mechanic.
Edit: Page 20 ... sniper.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.29 22:06:00 -
[582]
Originally by: Balatar Couldn't agree more - the only people who could possible object to this are those no risk losers that wait for the PvPers to do their work for them.
You mean like the hi sec dwelling pirate corps that war-dec hi sec industrial corps for easy to no risk? The hypocrisy you guys spew is astounding. Do you even think one step ahead of what the crap you say?
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust
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Posted - 2010.06.30 00:09:00 -
[583]
yes
Quote: CCP Mindstar > Sorry - I've completely messed all that up. lets try again
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Bfoster
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.06.30 20:38:00 -
[584]
Yup.. Wreck should belong to the killer, not the victim.. ------------------
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Ori Blake
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Posted - 2010.06.30 22:14:00 -
[585]
Not supported unless the original person wrecked is immune. A problem is that suppose the guy who gets ganked wants to get his stuff back? He's flagged for stealing from his own wreck since he doesn't own it. While he may be wardecced, he may also be in a 1v1, or lost his ship from a pirate.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.07.01 09:00:00 -
[586]
I will support this if at the same time, they remove the ability to remote anything to someone outside your alliance/corp. NPC corps do not count.
Then, and only then would war decs in high sec be better.
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General Escobar
Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2010.07.05 18:09:00 -
[587]
Wreck should "belong" to both, victim and killer! both should get aggro to a 3rd party that is looting the wreck! and considering that the killer is the only one left on grid with a ship and a cargohold in that ship, hes most likely the only one of the two (victim and killer) that can take the loot!
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Loi Shaini
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.07.06 03:57:00 -
[588]
LOL - the griefer gets griefed and has a whine?
It's game mechanics boyo, suck it up and HTFU!!
Sad panda is sad for you
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Clovermite
Kamikaze Fleet Command Kamikaze Project
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Posted - 2010.07.06 05:07:00 -
[589]
I'm in support of this, only on the condition that it is legal war targets only.
I agree that suicide gankers, while operating perfectly within intended game mechanics, should not get rights to the loot.
So I'll hold off checking the box thingy until the OP gets edited to say "legal war targets only."
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.07.06 10:55:00 -
[590]
Not supported. Even if a two day alt is flagged to you, it still means zero risk to the person flying the alt, as losing that alt just means he has to try again or perhaps two two day alts around next time. |
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.06 12:28:00 -
[591]
This change would make a lot of sense. Think about it. In real life when an aggressor kills someone all the victim's properties now legally belong to the aggressor. It is actually the police's job to defend and make sure that the aggressor can now pick up what now legally belongs to him.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.07.06 17:20:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Marlona Sky I will support this if at the same time, they remove the ability to remote anything to someone outside your alliance/corp. NPC corps do not count.
Then, and only then would war decs in high sec be better.
This. Also, Marlona Sky for king of badgers.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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SammyullJackson
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Posted - 2010.07.06 17:50:00 -
[593]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 This change would make a lot of sense. Think about it. In real life when an aggressor kills someone all the victim's properties now legally belong to the aggressor. It is actually the police's job to defend and make sure that the aggressor can now pick up what now legally belongs to him.
Umm... what?
In real life, when an aggressor kills someone, they go to jail...
Unless you're talking about self-defense or something... in which all the victims' property belongs to the family of the deceased.
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Xorv
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Posted - 2010.07.06 21:12:00 -
[594]
Makes sense in regard to Wardecs, which are not criminal.
But would add corp members of the victim as players not flagged for looting, to prevent a good idea for wardecs to be abused in other situations.
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Epegi Givo
Amarr The Fimbriani Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:07:00 -
[595]
Edited by: Epegi Givo on 07/07/2010 00:09:36 Edited by: Epegi Givo on 07/07/2010 00:07:51 Agreed 100%
Pretty much anything where someone can damage you and you have no way to protect against is stupid IMHO.
I killed the guy, I took heavy armor damage to do so and need the money to pay for it.
Also there is everyone saying "Go to lowsec".
Guess what? I tried going to lowsec, and very quickly got multi-BS ganked. In high-sec I can actually get a fair fight with someone of equal size to me, much more fun that way.
This, coupled with PitBoss' earlier thread of Neutral RRepping would fox high-sec PvP for me almost entirely.
Edit: Apparently I already supported this thread earlier on. __________________________
My other alt is A Ferrari |
Loi Shaini
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:17:00 -
[596]
Edited by: Loi Shaini on 07/07/2010 00:20:45 But some of us make a very tidy living off the wrecks of the victim of gankers. They (the gankers) don't like it for obvious reasons, but it's seriously fun to do.
But the really clever part is that with the game mechanics, I can reroll an industrial flying alt every day (no sec status hit you see) perfectly legally - so you'll never know if that empty speed fitted hauler sitting on the inbound path to a gate or on the undock to a station, is gonna snatch ya loot right from under your nose.
Nothing like ruining someone's day when they see that all that hard work goes to nothing as their juicy target ends up in someone else's hold.
Now those are very sweet tears to suck on.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.07.07 03:14:00 -
[597]
I dont know why people are going to support this, it wont change. CCP has said before the wreck belongs to the victim and no one else, and who ever gets there first gets the spoils of war. And they already get flagged to that player who owns the wreck and the entire corp they belong to.
sooooo......
Move along now, nothing to see here.
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