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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Felysta Sandorn
Celestial Apocalypse The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:40:00 -
[1741]
CAST YOUR VOTES FOR OR AGAINST THIS NANO NERF NOW:
Vote for it HERE.
Vote against it HERE.
.: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
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Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:43:00 -
[1742]
I don't think I can get the font size to go big enough to properly express the letters: WTF are you doing CCP?!?!
Where to start.... this is F'ed up beyond all recognition in so many ways. About the only thing you managed to get right was the fact that some speed tanks ARE too powerful. You got that part, and then proceeded to hump the bunk on EVERYTHING else. I guess I'll go with the two most messed up examples of CCP logic:
#1: You have a problem with a few ships, with certain modifiers, going faster than was intended. So, in a carefully (NOT) thought-out response, instead of addressing the issues and slightly modifying the most problematic ship types and a few implants, you instead nerf EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE in sight. Way to use the scalpel instead of the sledgehammer there CCP..... The sarcasm is supposed to be overwhelming at this point if no one has caught it....
#2: You say speed is a problem, and to address it you are nerfing EVERYTHING is sight that has to do with making ships go faster. One of the WORST ideas to come down the pipes in a long time... but whatever. But, WAIT, it gets better!!! You didn't think the CCP devs were going to stop with just entry level idiocy did you?!?! No, they had to go full-bore to Neolithic, mind-blowing, world-class, idiocy! The devs are telling us that: ôSpeed is such a problem you see, that we need to make all of these massive nerfs across the board, and while we are at it, in the same patch that we are going to take care of this ugly speed problem, we will nerf those horrid webbers too!!ö
*blink*blink*
Yeah. It took me a minute on that part too. Speed is SUCH a problem that CCP is proceeding DIRECTLY to nerf the webbers..... That must be some gold class ganja they are passing out up there at CCP HQ....
Epic CCP. Epic. Just when I thought the stuff coming out of the "balance" department wasn't going to be entertaining anymore...
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Shamharoth
Gallente Beach Boys BeachBoys
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:46:00 -
[1743]
I, for one, welcome our new Caldari Militia whine overlords :D
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:50:00 -
[1744]
Originally by: Demus DaVet
However, they seem to have no problem disregarding the invested ISK of nano fitting players and what's more the very real dollars or euros these players have invested in months' training for command ship bonuses and implants.
This is such a hollow arguement. The price of rare modules is based on their effectiveness, and time invested in "nano" skills is no different to time invested in any other skill.
The ISK price is high because of the huge advantage given, not the other way around.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:50:00 -
[1745]
Edited by: Viper ****zIe on 26/07/2008 11:49:56
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Vagabond: High: nothing Med: 10mn microwarpdrive Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
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burek
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:51:00 -
[1746]
Edited by: burek on 26/07/2008 11:51:55 Going a few years back, missiles were nerfed and new skills added for people to WASTE more time skilling to crawl back to a workable level. And now we're going back to the spam missiles, collect bacon era?
What ****es me off most about this is the "5 hours to come up with this brilliance, hoho look how cool we are", the condescending tones which make it clear without a doubt that these devs play (if they even play) as those dumbasses somewhere in bumfk land where the only pvp they get is when a call goes out "zomg, 3 hostiles in that system, get your drakes and yeeeeehaw!", and the fact that they laugh off the stupid amount of isk players have spent on perfecting their gameplay.
Now I've been burned before and managed to leave a sinking ship just before it happened, like selling of t2 BPOs before every ****** in the universe started being able to build everything, training up for amarr months ago as CCP caving in to stupidity was to be expected but I'm getting a bit tired of it tbh. Staying ahead of nerfs is annoying and exhausting.
And yes, I'm pretty sure eventually the whines will start about megapulse ships, "ludicrous" amounts of armour, trimarks, slaves. Where does it stop? For me personally will be right there.
FK the noobs, seriously. Does everything have to be vanilla.
Oh, if you really want to put every god damn fker on a level playing field you should nerf capitals back into the stone age. Amount of isk put into ships SHOULD make a difference otherwise what the god damn fk is the point? |
kOZMIC sNIPER
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:51:00 -
[1747]
Nazh just admit it, instead of talking about a real solutions you guys where busy going down on each other. When the rest of the devs came to work to figure out what you guys came up with,within those five hours. You guys were put on the spot! You were pressured into making these dumb suggestions. We will all forgive you and we will back you with CCP. We will make sure you don't get fired, just come out of the cloest and we can move past this incident. Tell us what really happen in that meeting room. |
Shamharoth
Gallente Beach Boys BeachBoys
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:51:00 -
[1748]
MY VAGABOND IS FITTED WITH THE FOLLOWING:
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Otellus
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:52:00 -
[1749]
Edited by: Otellus on 26/07/2008 11:53:37
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: Lt Angus Edited by: Lt Angus on 25/07/2008 11:12:17
Originally by: Zaskarr In before nano*** QQ. Ah, too late.. CCP, don't get discouraged by all the whining you'll read here. These changes are needed, no matter what a vocal minority shout here. Protip to all: first read the blog, THEN poast!
not sure why nano users would cry, sure they going slower but the change looks to make speed fits a proper ship fit with 50% webs, vagabond seems untouched by the changes
The only reasons I can figure out is that: they will not disengage as fast as they used. They will not run to the gates as fast as they used and missile boats will hit them, when until now they were pretty much immune. In the end the odds of actually a fight happens will sky rocket.
No the chance of a fight actually happening will drop. Because instead of that 15 man nanogang jumping into your 30 man fleet and nanoing off the gate before engaging, they will instead go the other way since they dont want to lose 5 ships on jumpin.
Secondly, the comments about HACs outrunning interceptors is bullshit. A simple T2 fitted crow, stiletto or claw will outrun practically any run of the mill HAC, including vagabonds. Even if the ceptor doesn't fit rigs.
A crow with only 2 T2 overdrives and a nanofiber and a T2 MWD will do 6628ms. Estimated cost, about 20 million.
A vagbond with 2 T2 overdrives, 2 nanofibers, 2 Polycarb Is and a T2 MWD will do 6092ms. Add a third overdrive and it will only just surpass the crow at 6754ms. At that time it will cost a rough 200 million. And the only benefit it has over a crow is that its sturdier, because its DPS will be beyond pathetic. The crow will align considerably faster 3.9 sec than the vaga 6.2 seconds.
If a ship costs 10 times more, only to really be a more sturdy tackler and only marginally faster, is that really overpowered?
And of course, the vagabond is by far the fastest HAC out there. What if we take a faster interceptor. Lets look at a claw. A claw with 2 T2 nanofibers, 2 T2 overdrives and a T2 MWD does 7641ms. It aligns in 3.8 seconds. In speedterms its far better than a vagabond. A malediction does 6784ms also faster than a vagabond. These interceptors cost only 20m each.
So where is the big problem. Plenty of interceptors will go faster than vagas based on a simple T2 fit, and at only 1/10th of the cost of said vaga. And the vaga will run out of cap a lot sooner than the ceptors as well.
If the real problem is vagabonds doing 15kms, then nerf the special modules that allow them to reach that speed. Nerf snakes, nerf Gisti MWDs. But stay away from the ships doing 4-6kms.
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Dendo Ordoss
Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:52:00 -
[1750]
Originally by: Malachon Draco A few points:
- People who say that it was possible to go on 0.0 roams before nanos, so it should be possible after. You are mistaken. 0.0 has changed. You will be surrounded by defenders using jumpportals and wiped out in your small gang if you jump through the next gate. Its not that nanogangs don't use scouts, its that nanogangs can go through small gatecamps without being slowed down enough for a big blob to catch them.
- That is not just a matter of getting to warp faster. A nanogang will typically be able to jump into a 10-15 man gatecamp and run off without losses if they just run off. Nanogangs don't kill anything while running off, but they can run through smaller gatecamps. That is important because otherwise the only alternative becomes to log off or cloak (unless you want to Leeroy and die horribly).
- Not being able to be hit while doing 5kms is not that much of a problem, since you won't be hitting anything yourself either. Its almost like a cloak, except there are counters to nanoing, but not to cloaking.
- Do not base your game changes on EFT, or even Sisi. Sisi is not Tranquility, you don't have to deal with motherships, titans, jumpbridge networks on Sisi. All of those affect the environment in which nanos are used, and are part of why nanos are needed to keep small gang warfare outside of camping a bloody gate for 3 hours viable.
- If you make changes, make them gradually. Why would you change 15 things at the same time? Make 1 or 2 changes, then see if the result is what you want. If you change 15 things at the same time, and you **** up, then you still don't know which of the 15 things was 'too much'.
- If nanos are no longer viable, it will make less fights happen. People are not gonna keep coming in small gangs if they get blobbed time after time and forced to logoff. If you would give normal ships just a bit more ability to fight back when attacked by nanos, that would not have the same effect as reducing the speed of nanoships.
- Why don't you add a new type of T2 ammo that does less damage but has superior tracking? You have the T2 ammo that does more damage but has 75% penalty on tracking. Add another type of T2 ammo that has say a 50% bonus on tracking. Then as long as people carry that they have a shot at even hitting those 10kms vagas.
CCP, please read this post and understand what he's saying. this is one of the best posts in this thread
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NoX PL
Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:55:00 -
[1751]
Why you are nerfing high speed in every aspect? I was perfecting speed and nano ships for a long time and now i see that time spend on this would be a waste of time. I would understand little changes but this is insane.
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Z3r0n
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:56:00 -
[1752]
Originally by: Sylthi
#1: You have a problem with a few ships, with certain modifiers, going faster than was intended. So, in a carefully (NOT) thought-out response, instead of addressing the issues and slightly modifying the most problematic ship types and a few implants, you instead nerf EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE in sight. Way to use the scalpel instead of the sledgehammer there CCP..... The sarcasm is supposed to be overwhelming at this point if no one has caught it....
#2: You say speed is a problem, and to address it you are nerfing EVERYTHING is sight that has to do with making ships go faster. One of the WORST ideas to come down the pipes in a long time... but whatever. But, WAIT, it gets better!!! You didn't think the CCP devs were going to stop with just entry level idiocy did you?!?! No, they had to go full-bore to Neolithic, mind-blowing, world-class, idiocy! The devs are telling us that: ôSpeed is such a problem you see, that we need to make all of these massive nerfs across the board, and while we are at it, in the same patch that we are going to take care of this ugly speed problem, we will nerf those horrid webbers too!!ö
Imo CCP is trying to nerf the speeds on EVERYTHING because thex want to reduce the speed of all ships.... that sorta makes sense wouldn't you agree? I really don't see the problem... CCP said their engine is broken when the speeds go above "ludicrous" level so they try and scale all the speeds down a bit. I don't understand why everyone is whining so much just because all ships are going slower including nanos, missile boats, blaster boats and even haulers with an MWD... so instead of charging a BS flying 1,3km/s in your blaster boat doing 3km/s you now will charge him flying 2,2km/s but he will also only be able to fly 800m/s so you will still catch up.
Currently Training: ePeen Compensation Rank (19) |
Christopher Multsanti
Darwin With Attitude Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:57:00 -
[1753]
I cannot be bothered to sift through all the carebear tears to find people that are actually posting sense, so if this has been mention already, sorry.
I like the dev blog, excellent changes and about time to. But you must now look at the rapier, it is overpowered because nanoness is over powered, so you must look at nerfing the rapier. Must!!
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Lt Angus
Caldari Lt Angus Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:57:00 -
[1754]
Originally by: Dendo Ordoss
Originally by: Malachon Draco A few points:
- People who say that it was possible to go on 0.0 roams before nanos, so it should be possible after. You are mistaken. 0.0 has changed. You will be surrounded by defenders using jumpportals and wiped out in your small gang if you jump through the next gate. Its not that nanogangs don't use scouts, its that nanogangs can go through small gatecamps without being slowed down enough for a big blob to catch them.
- That is not just a matter of getting to warp faster. A nanogang will typically be able to jump into a 10-15 man gatecamp and run off without losses if they just run off. Nanogangs don't kill anything while running off, but they can run through smaller gatecamps. That is important because otherwise the only alternative becomes to log off or cloak (unless you want to Leeroy and die horribly).
- Not being able to be hit while doing 5kms is not that much of a problem, since you won't be hitting anything yourself either. Its almost like a cloak, except there are counters to nanoing, but not to cloaking.
- Do not base your game changes on EFT, or even Sisi. Sisi is not Tranquility, you don't have to deal with motherships, titans, jumpbridge networks on Sisi. All of those affect the environment in which nanos are used, and are part of why nanos are needed to keep small gang warfare outside of camping a bloody gate for 3 hours viable.
- If you make changes, make them gradually. Why would you change 15 things at the same time? Make 1 or 2 changes, then see if the result is what you want. If you change 15 things at the same time, and you **** up, then you still don't know which of the 15 things was 'too much'.
- If nanos are no longer viable, it will make less fights happen. People are not gonna keep coming in small gangs if they get blobbed time after time and forced to logoff. If you would give normal ships just a bit more ability to fight back when attacked by nanos, that would not have the same effect as reducing the speed of nanoships.
- Why don't you add a new type of T2 ammo that does less damage but has superior tracking? You have the T2 ammo that does more damage but has 75% penalty on tracking. Add another type of T2 ammo that has say a 50% bonus on tracking. Then as long as people carry that they have a shot at even hitting those 10kms vagas.
CCP, please read this post and understand what he's saying. this is one of the best posts in this thread
Especially the tracking ammo idea
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Lt Angus
Caldari Lt Angus Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.26 11:59:00 -
[1755]
Originally by: Christopher Multsanti I cannot be bothered to sift through all the carebear tears to find people that are actually posting sense, so if this has been mention already, sorry.
I like the dev blog, excellent changes and about time to. But you must now look at the rapier, it is overpowered because nanoness is over powered, so you must look at nerfing the rapier. Must!!
you want to nerf the new worst recon even more
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
kOZMIC sNIPER
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:01:00 -
[1756]
That is because he really didn't read the blog. He doesn't know how to read! He only knows F1 F2 F3. He flys his Hulk a little to much! |
Christopher Multsanti
Darwin With Attitude Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:03:00 -
[1757]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: Christopher Multsanti I cannot be bothered to sift through all the carebear tears to find people that are actually posting sense, so if this has been mention already, sorry.
I like the dev blog, excellent changes and about time to. But you must now look at the rapier, it is overpowered because nanoness is over powered, so you must look at nerfing the rapier. Must!!
you want to nerf the new worst recon even more
That why no gang ever undocks unless it had at least 5 rapiers, yeah your right they are the worst.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr xPlaguex
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:11:00 -
[1758]
I like the changes...its more logical this way. Kind of...how it is meant to be. smaller ships evading larger ships by superior speed/size and agility. I like it and this will give a new game experience to me. More tactical...more unpredictable, more rock, paper, scissors...its the eve-stlye I wish i could go to sisi and test it today.
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kOZMIC sNIPER
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:12:00 -
[1759]
Sounds like he is mad because they trys and counters nano gangs with his nano ship. then he gets webbed down because he sucks and didn't kill the rapiers. It isn't our fault that you suck dude. PLZ log to character selection go to the low Left hand corner and terminate character. It will take about 10 hours I think but you will feel alot better. Then make a WoW account and you can play there and when you die, you don't loose anything! Game sounds like you style. |
Christopher Multsanti
Darwin With Attitude Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:13:00 -
[1760]
On another point. When these proposed changed do get implemented then you may have a problem CCP. Eve is far more populated than it was before nanoships became the in thing.
0.0 is crowded, gangs are larger. We need more space in Eve, drone regions and new low sec don't cut it. We need A LOT more 0.0 space. People need to spread out invade and take over new regions.
This would help to counter a lot of the uber blobs that could form up quickly to detroy someones crappy little 20 man slow assed gang.
This really needs me to take the time to write a long thought out post, but I am hungover and this is all I can manage.
CCP give us more space!!!!
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Rastelle
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:14:00 -
[1761]
TBH there are 4 problems here
1) Everything in the blog is ........ well pants tbh, i disagree with it all, but i do have an idea or 2 :-
2) Ship speed, All ships need a maximum top speed, once reached the ship cannot go any faster("due to possiable hull breaches" for the RP fans out there). this is good as once you are at the top/max speed it opens up slot often used for speed mods to be used for something else etc (damage mod anyone ) so snakes or other speed related implants still have there uses.
3) MWD's, i my view they are wrong atm, i believe they should not ramp speed of any ship up as fast as they do, maybe reduce there thrust alittle. this is good as smaller/lighter ships such as intercepter would still be able to get to full speed reasonably quick, but something heavy would take a while.
4) AB's, again in my view they are wrong atm. i believe they should give a massave initial speed boost, but have a short duration, with a long'ish cool down. good for heavy things, not soo good for smaller
These idears, may/may not work for alot of people but they are a decent trade off, and i believe dedicated setup's will still work, and counters will still work, but it opens up more potiential
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kOZMIC sNIPER
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:14:00 -
[1762]
CCP ban chris because he just is writing stupid shit in the fourms! |
Rhamnousia
Caldari Pelennor Swarm Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:14:00 -
[1763]
Originally by: Xyleya snip
10MN MWD II: 500% Acceleration Control LvL 5: + 25% = 625% Rogue MY-1: + 3% = 643.75% Zor's Custom Navigation Hyperlink: +5% = 675.93%
snip
actually, the 10MN MWD II gives 550% base before skill. with acceleration control lvl 4 it yields 660%. with overheating it yields 990%.
i did not take any implant into the equation. These numbers are live on TQ as of this post.
your math is a little off, IIRC. ---------------------- What happens in Pelennor stays in Pelennor.
Forever Pelennor |
Christopher Multsanti
Darwin With Attitude Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:15:00 -
[1764]
Originally by: kOZMIC sNIPER Sounds like he is mad because they trys and counters nano gangs with his nano ship. then he gets webbed down because he sucks and didn't kill the rapiers. It isn't our fault that you suck dude. PLZ log to character selection go to the low Left hand corner and terminate character. It will take about 10 hours I think but you will feel alot better. Then make a WoW account and you can play there and when you die, you don't loose anything! Game sounds like you style.
Thanks for the advice, but I already have a WOW account. But you are right I do suck.
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Demus DaVet
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:15:00 -
[1765]
Originally by: Drumul Oaselor
the real question is not how expensive your ship fittings are, it's whether or not ships should be allowed to be impervious to all damage, even for 1,5 minutes, through an imbalanced game mechanic
You're still replying w/o answering the original question, you do understand that. Yes, I do find it logical that my Ferrari will outrun and outclass your Opel Tigra even both are in the same class of autmobiles (two seaters, sport cars, you name it). if price has no role here... I really don't know what will.
As for your 'real' question you do take out of context that the only thing a vaga or an inty at ludicrous invulnerable speed can do is tackle and maybe web. For intys, that is the purpose of their existence and for vagas it's the only reason worth flying the ship for. It can also be easily countered with a neut or a domi web.
On the other hand, I do not understand why missiles should the end of all weapons, that hits everything always for maximum specialized dmg.
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Lt Angus
Caldari Lt Angus Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:15:00 -
[1766]
Originally by: Rhamnousia
Originally by: Xyleya snip
10MN MWD II: 500% Acceleration Control LvL 5: + 25% = 625% Rogue MY-1: + 3% = 643.75% Zor's Custom Navigation Hyperlink: +5% = 675.93%
snip
actually, the 10MN MWD II gives 550% base before skill. with acceleration control lvl 4 it yields 660%. with overheating it yields 990%.
i did not take any implant into the equation. These numbers are live on TQ as of this post.
your math is a little off, IIRC.
those are the post nerf stats
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Cutesmile
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:16:00 -
[1767]
Edited by: Cutesmile on 26/07/2008 12:17:42
Originally by: Slade Hoo I like the changes...its more logical this way. Kind of...how it is meant to be. smaller ships evading larger ships by superior speed/size and agility. I like it and this will give a new game experience to me. More tactical...more unpredictable, more rock, paper, scissors...its the eve-stlye I wish i could go to sisi and test it today.
I will like those changes when ur slave set nerfed and 1600 plates stacking too. Oops i forgot ur optimal and tracking speed. Pls CCP make the amarr ships lesser optimal like a blaster mega. And u will never hit a ship what flying 15km off range, because your speed sux and the webs cant hold them.
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Christopher Multsanti
Darwin With Attitude Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:16:00 -
[1768]
Originally by: kOZMIC sNIPER CCP ban chris because he just is writing stupid shit in the fourms!
Lunas? Angmar? Nath?
come on tell me who you are.
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Dray
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:16:00 -
[1769]
Originally by: Cur Ahahaha!! Thanks for making my day nano****** and please continue your outpour of emotion.
Don't give an inch Nozh. A greater variety of ships and setups will hopefully soon return to the battlefield then warp off or log when they realize they havent got the numbers or just sit staring at a static screen while lags wins the day
Fixed that post for you.
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kOZMIC sNIPER
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Posted - 2008.07.26 12:17:00 -
[1770]
Titans should go up in price too because they wont miss many roaming gangs unless Orange S. is flying it. I mean if you camp choke points with large bubbles just what for the roaming bs gang to jump in. Log on five titans and BOOM! Where can I sign up another account for all this fun? |
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