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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Testerxnot Sheepherder
DeadHeads - Question Authority Crew
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 15:33:00 -
[661] - Quote
Tippia should just gtfo of this thread and go back to ganking defenseless hulks ingame. |

Whitehound
36
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 15:35:00 -
[662] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:well yeah... you have a game with essentially unlimited resources at your hands, all you have to worry about is time to make it (and in 0.0 tech moon terms just unlimited funds) cost as a balancing factor becomes moot Every single factor can become moot when you give it enough time. It is because time itself is a part of the balance and when you allow time to grow limitless then it will unbalance any other factor.
Cost remains a factor in balance. If it was not then we could change all bills of materials into 1 Tritanium. This is not going to work. To believe cost alone can solve any issues was the mistake. CCP keeps working on caps and not because they did not set the prices high enough, but because many of factors still need to be balanced. You would not want CCP to fix a balance issue by removing 99% of a ship's hull or by adding 10 times more DPS either. The risk for a change to throw the balance off the other end is too high. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6041
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 15:43:00 -
[663] - Quote
Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:Tippia should just gtfo of this thread and go back to ganking defenseless hulks ingame. GǪand you should learn what GÇ£go back toGÇ¥ means. You can't go back to doing something you've never done GÇö the word you're looking for is GÇ£startGÇ¥. Also, I see no reason why I should start ganking Hulks GÇö I don't have any of the BPOs to make it really profitable.
Whitehound wrote:Cost remains a factor in balance. GǪexcept that it's not used to balance ships, because it cannot be used that way for the reasons explained (the reasons you agree with and cannot argue). That's why CCP aren't using cost that way (which is why you haven't been able to show them doing it).
You're confusing balance and numbers. Cost is a factor in the latter, not the former. Balance is also a factor in the latter, both directly and indirectly through the mechanic of cost. Either way, the effect goes one way (even though it splits up), and not the other, so cost does not factor into the balance of the ship. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1509
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 15:46:00 -
[664] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Kengutsi Akira wrote:well yeah... you have a game with essentially unlimited resources at your hands, all you have to worry about is time to make it (and in 0.0 tech moon terms just unlimited funds) cost as a balancing factor becomes moot Every single factor can become moot when you give it enough time. It is because time itself is a part of the balance and when you allow time to grow limitless then it will unbalance any other factor. Cost remains a factor in balance. If it was not then we could change all bills of materials into 1 Tritanium. This is not going to work. To believe cost alone can solve any issues was the mistake. CCP keeps working on caps and not because they did not set the prices high enough, but because many of factors still need to be balanced. You would not want CCP to fix a balance issue by removing 99% of a ship's hull or by adding 10 times more DPS either. The risk for a change to throw the balance off the other end is too high.
Since ISK in game is virtually limitless for many, yes, I'd prefer they "balance" an unbalanced ship by fixing what is out of whack. Of course this verges into discussions of asymetrical balance which is far beyond the level of this thread currently.
EVE has proven time and again that people will pay exhorbitant fee's for even a slight advantage over their competition. Indeed the popularity of the Hulk despite its relatively minor performance advantages over other alternatives is a shining case of this. Look at any high priced Pirate faction or Navy issue ship, with advantages often as slim as 5% over competetive vessels, for further confirmation.
You will have a case for needing to buff the Hulk when sales drop off sharply in favor of cheaper alternatives, not before. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |

Sverige Pahis
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
985
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 15:53:00 -
[665] - Quote
Mining is already looking to be a lot more profitable now more than ever, stop begging for a buff and learn how to tank your ships. |

Testerxnot Sheepherder
DeadHeads - Question Authority Crew
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 15:53:00 -
[666] - Quote
Tippia wrote: You're confusing balance and numbers. Cost is a factor in the latter, not the former. Balance is also a factor in the latter, both directly and indirectly through the mechanic of cost. Either way, the effect goes one way (even though it splits up), and not the other, so cost does not factor into the balance of the ship.
Just gonna quote and leave this here, as proof to Tippias' superiority over all miners 'n' carebears. |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
613
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 15:54:00 -
[667] - Quote
Ignoring points and equivocating is not logical argumentation. As for trolling, I don't think it is a troll nor have I made that claim. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6041
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:03:00 -
[668] - Quote
Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:Just gonna quote and leave this here, as proof to Tippias' superiority over all miners 'n' carebears. That's some nice over-reaching you're doing there, but thank you for the flattery.
Unlike you, however, I don't believe that all miners and carebears are all that deluded about what affects balance and what does not. Some might be, and some of those have probably understood why it's not by now, courtesy of the discussion and Ranger 1's examples.
You've never been able to prove that I have ignored any arguments or equivocated over anything, you knowGǪ Maybe it's about time you do so or stop lying to everyone GÇö it's not a very nice thing to do, you know.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
613
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:06:00 -
[669] - Quote
Tippia wrote:You've never been able to prove that I have ignored any arguments or equivocated over anything, you knowGǪ Maybe it's about time you do so or stop lying to everyone GÇö it's not a very nice thing to do, you know.
 |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6041
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:08:00 -
[670] - Quote
Like I said. Lots of posts, zero proof of anything except your complete lack of proof. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
613
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:10:00 -
[671] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Like I said. Lots of posts, zero proof of anything except your complete lack of proof.
ROFL |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6041
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:13:00 -
[672] - Quote
Proving me more and more right, and yourself more and more wrong, every time you post. One would think you'd be a bit disturbed by this development.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
323
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:14:00 -
[673] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Tippia wrote:Like I said. Lots of posts, zero proof of anything except your complete lack of proof. ROFL Ah yes, the old ROFL evidenciary presentation.
Big on content, that. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
613
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:16:00 -
[674] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Proving me more and more right, and yourself more and more wrong, every time you post. One would think you'd be a bit disturbed by this development.
I'm enjoying abusing your need to get the last word in. So keep at it. |

Nydia Carver
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:16:00 -
[675] - Quote
Exhumers should be redesigned, more slots, power grid same line with tier 3 battleships. They should be able to fit 100 000 EHP tank. |

Plyn
Random Jedi Industries KRYSIS.
50
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:17:00 -
[676] - Quote
Tippia wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪso how many 1600mm plates do you usually fit your Iterons with? and when was the last time you spent over 200 mill on an iteron? i mean can you buy them from then please! Quite irrelevant. The point is, they're both the same kind of ship: a non-combat industrial-type ship meant for one thing and one thing only (and, just to repeat that: it's not combat). You can still squeeze 30k EHP out of a Hulk, and that's fairly respectable for what it is and what it's supposed to be doing. "They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space."
That says defense equipped in expectation of combat to me. Come2Nullsec |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
613
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:18:00 -
[677] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: Ah yes, the old ROFL evidenciary presentation.
Big on content, that.
Not intended to be evidence. Enjoy. |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
324
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:24:00 -
[678] - Quote
Nydia Carver wrote:Exhumers should be redesigned, more slots, power grid same line with tier 3 battleships. They should be able to fit 100 000 EHP tank. No they shouldn't. But for a second let's say they should.
How many destroyers could gank it with 100k EHP? Answer: About nine or ten. Let's call it 12 just for *****.
So twelve destroyers at a cost of 2M each FITTED (24M ISK total) still gank your Hulk. You, being ever so resourceful and butthurt that 24M just destroyed your 300M ISK hulk, then come back here and claim it should have, what? A million EHP?
This is ridiculous. The whole argument is a joke. You don't even give a justification, you just make a bunch of vomitous claims and an expectation that's based on unreasonable premises...
Do you want to mine AFK? Risk-free? Hmmm?
No. Just no. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6041
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:25:00 -
[679] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Not intended to be evidence. Enjoy. Of course not, largely because you have no evidence as you have long since proven.
Plyn wrote:"They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space."
That says defense equipped in expectation of combat to me. It says GÇ£better prepared to withstand attacksGÇ¥ to me, which is what it isGǪ if you turn that preparedness into readiness by equipping a tank. It doesn't really say that it's a combat vessel, just that it's a hardened ship. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
613
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:27:00 -
[680] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Not intended to be evidence. Enjoy. Of course not, largely because you have no evidence as you have long since proven.
Claims do not make facts. try again fish |
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Whitehound
37
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:27:00 -
[681] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:You will have a case for needing to buff the Hulk when sales drop off sharply in favor of cheaper alternatives, not before. I think this is where you are wrong. I am not saying that it needs a buff (or that it does not). All I ever said was that if it needs a change then it would need a better tank for all mining ships. The high cost of a Hulk do I see as the reason for the ganks. Players will gank a Freki when they see one for the same reason. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6041
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:31:00 -
[682] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Claims do not make facts. GǪand the fact is that in spite of repeated requests, you have remain unable to provide any proof that I have ignored arguments. You keep making the claim, but you can't turn it into fact by providing even the slightest shred of evidence. One would think that you would have jumped at the opportunity to prove me wrong by now, but for some reason, you just can't.
So yes, you've once again proven me right and yourself wrong. Once again, this is quite contrary to what one might expect. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:32:00 -
[683] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Tippia wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Not intended to be evidence. Enjoy. Of course not, largely because you have no evidence as you have long since proven. Claims do not make facts. try again fish Empty statements are devoid of facts. Yep. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:32:00 -
[684] - Quote
I want to get in the last word now. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:32:00 -
[685] - Quote
Do you really think the Hulk needs a buff? Based on what? He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:33:00 -
[686] - Quote
I bet you have lots of constructive things to say. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:33:00 -
[687] - Quote
Any time now. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
614
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:47:00 -
[688] - Quote
The only person who cares is you. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6042
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:50:00 -
[689] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:The only person who cares is you. Prove it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:51:00 -
[690] - Quote
Oxylan wrote:i cant understand why ship worth actualy 330mil cant stand to curple t1 fited derstroyers or even cant survive one tornado, crazy...
The same way it's not a combat ship, and the same way no other ship can mine anywhere near the amount of ore that it is capable of. |
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