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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
MMXMMX Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:49:00 - [1621] Edited by: MMXMMX on 12/12/2008 16:50:47 It would not surprise me if the isk sellers have something to do with this to . Its a great way to get fast isk and sel it . I could be wrong :)
Blackmarketbaby	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:01:00 - [1622] Edited by: Blackmarketbaby on 12/12/2008 17:02:11 Originally by: MMXMMX Edited by: MMXMMX on 12/12/2008 16:50:47 It would not surprise me if the isk sellers have something to do with this to . Its a great way to get fast isk and sel it . I could be wrong :) you could be very correct - and it could mean alot of real money, thats why this ain't about just using a bug in the game - it could be about ccp-staff and players alike generating real money (our money) for themselfs and letting the world of eve be totally unfair. only banning acounts is like letting real-life robbers keep their loot after just taking their guns away, they should be in prison.
Inmaculada Divinity	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:09:00 - [1623] How the devs will fix the items that were produced by the exploit; delete * from assets; delete * from market; drop table bpos
Carter VanSandt Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:10:00 - [1624] I would just like to know the extent of actual damage. How much of the current market is inflated with non-existant supplies, and what impact this has upon T2 ship production. I would also like to know who was involved, the list of the people banned and the names of corporations / alliances for accountability. Simply coming out with a notice saying "Ok, everything's fixed now, carry on" won't cut it. The potential economic damage is too far reaching. _______________________________________________ I SURVIVED FERROGATE 2008!
Avaleric Amarr SC Special Circumstances	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:13:00 - [1625] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 12/12/2008 07:31:24 Originally by: Avaleric I have read all your posts here; mostly you being abusive towards those of different opinion, and quite unprovoked. Tells us all about your mindset and capabilities... You are entitled to have your opinion, no matter how wrong it is. But as soon as you decide to share it in a forum, be prepared to have it repudiated. If you can't bear having your flawed arguments dissected and ridicularized for their inconsistencies, then just abstain yourself from writing. Now if you have anything to say about the subject at hand, please share your priceless ideas. I am quite sure they will be amusing. "One should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Vinnie Jones, Snatch - Ignorance is bliss...
Inmaculada Divinity	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:14:00 - [1626] Originally by: Owin Forsyth Originally by: SemiCharmed Yeah yeah this is all fine and dandy but why don't you take macro miners this seriously? I guess weÆll have to wait for someone to go to one of those other sites that have forums and state that he was a Macro Miner with 10 accounts and he made 100 trillion ISK. And then proceed to tell how even corp mates reported him over and over and nothing was ever done except that the oneÆs reporting had their petitions closed with nothing more than a canned response. It seems that only scandals get any attention these days. So, make Macro Mining a scandal somehow and they'll finally pay attention. A macro would make no where near this amount of isk, not even 1/100th of the value - and each macro pays for their account. As they are paying subscribers and don't make a massive impact on the economy (ie, nowhere near this scale) it is more cost effective and profitable to let them continue. If you were to ban all macros (impossible, but lets say there was a switch and they could be turned off) in addition to this loophole being closed the entire marketplace and production of EVE would grind to a halt. No moon exploit + No macros = Nothing on the market It's simply not cost effective, efficient, profitable or in anyone's interest to shut down all the macros.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:14:00 - [1627] Originally by: Andrue That's their fault for being stupid then. Unlike you who spend the same time in a forum, right? I have to point that you are the stupidest of the lot, sorry. Quote: If you were having fun for the last <however long it has been going on> then you got your money's worth. If you weren't having fun prior to this going public then you were a fool for wasting your money it in the first place. This incident might have soured the game going forward - in that case cancel your sub. But it's silly to claim that it has somehow invalidated what happened before. Put another way:You still have memories of the good times in Eve. If you don't think there'll be any more then quit. But don't let a bunch of emoraging idiots taint your memories. They are your memories - hang on to them. Emoraging idiots like those who make posts calling people "emogaring idiots"? There is an option to quitting you know. You can make CCP life's hell untill they fix waht needs to be fixed or are out of business. And to me this is far more fullfilling than quitting. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Karc Thule	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:15:00 - [1628] Consider you are leading a large corp and you discover or hear about an exploit. At first you are doubtful, then excited, then wary. An exploit with this much power would allow a corp to carve out space ungoverned. On one hand, you weigh an egregious crime that would lose you everything if discovered. On the other, you feel the pressure of rival corps bearing down on you. Will they use this exploit? You wonder how long you could hold against such overwhelming odds... Where does your greatest risk lie? Can you afford to fall behind your equals knowing the price for righteousness is as heavy as the price for sin? In the past couple of days I have often wondered how I would decide. Is it right for CCP to punish those who took advantage? Is it just to convict a criminal when they did nothing to police his neighbors? If they build an environment where fitness is a product of strength and greed and through neglect allow such a commanding flaw to go unnoticed, perhaps the crime is in the breeding. Survival is not an exploit. In truth, I can't say I have an answer to the conflicting responsibilities here. Who is more culpable, the man who eats the fruit or the god who builds no fences? Let the question be theoretical. You can use the exploit that would save your corp or you can choose law and watch other powers rise around you. It would be an interesting vote.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:16:00 - [1629] Originally by: Avaleric "One should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Vinnie Jones, Snatch Those who need to quote others are without ideas themselves. I have to admit your quote fits you well, though. Self-knowledge is enlightening. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Inmaculada Divinity	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:24:00 - [1630] The mass banning was a knee jerk reaction and badly implemented. Lets just look; This has been going on for 4 years, another 4 weeks won't make much of a difference. In those 4 weeks, CCP could have looked at the economy, the impact, the effect of closing this and analyzed the consequences. We may now well be faced with a market and production collapse. As someone mentioned previously in RL governments have nationalised banks and other financial institutions - this might need to be a possibility here. If the sudden flow of these resources is withdrawn it will cause chaos. There needs to be a regulated and steady decrease until the player base is able to fill the void the mass ban has created.

Julian Lynq	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:25:00 - [1631] Originally by: Inmaculada Divinity How the devs will fix the items that were produced by the exploit; delete * from assets; delete * from market; drop table bpos get list of most active cheating/exploiting accounts in eve: SELECT Ac.Name FROM Accounts Ac INNER JOIN Characters Ch ON Ch.AccountID = Ac.ID INNER JOIN CharactersXCorporations XC ON XC.CharacterID = Ch.ID INNER JOIN CorporationsXAlliances XA ON XA.CorporationID = XC.CorporationID INNER JOIN Alliances Al ON Al.ID = XA.AllianceID WHERE ( Al.Ticker = 'BOB' )
szaiboT	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:32:00 - [1632] Originally by: Inmaculada Divinity The mass banning was a knee jerk reaction and badly implemented. Lets just look; This has been going on for 4 years, another 4 weeks won't make much of a difference. In those 4 weeks, CCP could have looked at the economy, the impact, the effect of closing this and analyzed the consequences. We may now well be faced with a market and production collapse. As someone mentioned previously in RL governments have nationalised banks and other financial institutions - this might need to be a possibility here. If the sudden flow of these resources is withdrawn it will cause chaos. There needs to be a regulated and steady decrease until the player base is able to fill the void the mass ban has created. Maybe even put some flavor into it. Instead of saying it was exploit, put a story there was an alien attack as those corporations where doing reasearch and explorations that angered them. Can you imagine the number of post and speculations that would be then ? I guess only 1/10 or less would be about the economy
Mistress Kali	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:32:00 - [1633] I love this deus ex machina tinkering - stops the game from being predictable
Kerfira	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:33:00 - [1634] Originally by: Inmaculada Divinity We may now well be faced with a market and production collapse. As someone mentioned previously in RL governments have nationalised banks and other financial institutions - this might need to be a possibility here. And so what if T2 items go up in price? That's not worthy of attention from CCP's side as T2 items are NOT a necessity for people to live (or fight)! The RL comparison is utterly ridiculous.... This is at most a major hiccup in EVE history... Nothing more.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:37:00 - [1635] Heres an idea: This meeting coming up. Broadcast it in real-time through an Eve channel or make an un-abridged recording of the meeting. Hows that for transparency? Shame CCP would never do that There was even talk of French toast But there was none to be had
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:37:00 - [1636] I heard a rumour that we are going to rollback to 4 years ago. Confirmation?
PJRiddick	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:38:00 - [1637] You all reolize that scence these people have been banned, or there accounts have been banned,...they will just start another account/toon,...and its game on just as if nothing happened. CCP is going to have to be real careful here. If they bann them,...there has got to be some way to see if these people STAY BANNED, MAC number addressing maybe? An IP is far too easy to change. >R<
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:42:00 - [1638] Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar I heard a rumour that we are going to rollback to 4 years ago. Confirmation? Confirming this. I heard that from reliable source. Alas those sources demanded anonymity (NDA stuff) so I can't tell you who it is. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Inmaculada Divinity	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:42:00 - [1639] Here's the external link by someone involved if you care to read: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=21936 It does appear this has been going on for 4 years. CCP must have known about it, how could they not know about it? The banned player states he's not paid for EVE in 4 years!!! So while every other pleb has had to pay using real money, or work their asses off for isk to cover a GTC these guys just sat back and bathed in money. I wonder if CCP would like to refund me, and every other player for my monthly subscriptions? This has been allowed to continue because EVE wouldn't exist, wouldn't function without it properly. It also gave all us plebs something to look up to, to work towards. Quite frankly this sucks on a massive and epic scale, and it's an utter failure from CCP. Depending on their responses to this, I may or may not continue with my subscriptions on the basis I've been robbed month in, month out. Your explanations better be good CCP, or you're going to lose a lot of players. This is nothing short of theft, and fraud. Seeing as ISK can be traded for GTC's, and GTC's can be paid for with cash it'll be interesting to see the real world consequences of this.
SemiCharmed Shaolin Legacy	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:43:00 - [1640] Originally by: Inmaculada Divinity Originally by: Owin Forsyth Originally by: SemiCharmed Yeah yeah this is all fine and dandy but why don't you take macro miners this seriously? I guess weÆll have to wait for someone to go to one of those other sites that have forums and state that he was a Macro Miner with 10 accounts and he made 100 trillion ISK. And then proceed to tell how even corp mates reported him over and over and nothing was ever done except that the oneÆs reporting had their petitions closed with nothing more than a canned response. It seems that only scandals get any attention these days. So, make Macro Mining a scandal somehow and they'll finally pay attention. A macro would make no where near this amount of isk, not even 1/100th of the value - and each macro pays for their account. As they are paying subscribers and don't make a massive impact on the economy (ie, nowhere near this scale) it is more cost effective and profitable to let them continue. If you were to ban all macros (impossible, but lets say there was a switch and they could be turned off) in addition to this loophole being closed the entire marketplace and production of EVE would grind to a halt. No moon exploit + No macros = Nothing on the market It's simply not cost effective, efficient, profitable or in anyone's interest to shut down all the macros. And eve would be a hell of alot more interesting and i would sure as hell take more pride in every kill i get knowing it will make a huge impact on the person that just lost his ship with very little but expencive gear on the market... These days "i just lost my titan... Ohh welll" buys 2 more new ones and fits them out - i would be glad to say you dont see this everyday, but infact... you do... -------------------------------------------- Remember Kids, Only YOU Can Prevent Fourm fires.

TehPhil Caldari Community for Justice Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:43:00 - [1641] Originally by: PJRid**** CCP is going to have to be real careful here. If they bann them,...there has got to be some way to see if these people STAY BANNED, MAC number addressing maybe? An IP is far too easy to change. >R< Ah right changing their Network cards will be an incredible task for them -- Everybody Panic!
Inmaculada Divinity	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:44:00 - [1642] Originally by: PJRid**** You all reolize that scence these people have been banned, or there accounts have been banned,...they will just start another account/toon,...and its game on just as if nothing happened. CCP is going to have to be real careful here. If they bann them,...there has got to be some way to see if these people STAY BANNED, MAC number addressing maybe? An IP is far too easy to change. >R< You can spoof a mac easily enough, even some routers have the option to do so. Nothing can really be done about it, if they want to come back then they will. The only thing that can be done now is to fix the bug and somehow calm the playerbase
Garok Nor Blueprint Haus	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:46:00 - [1643] Rabble Rabble Rabble... we should all quit and join that other Space Empire Building MMO.... Oh wait....... ------------------------------------------------- Items posted by me are in no way a reflection of the policies and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance. {though they maybe really ought to be}
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:48:00 - [1644] Originally by: TehPhil Originally by: PJRid**** CCP is going to have to be real careful here. If they bann them,...there has got to be some way to see if these people STAY BANNED, MAC number addressing maybe? An IP is far too easy to change. >R< Ah right changing their Network cards will be an incredible task for them Dont even need to do that, modifying the MAC isn't hard. The only way CCP can ensure banning someone is to throttle everything coming from his ISP and that obvious isn't a good idea There was even talk of French toast But there was none to be had
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:48:00 - [1645] Originally by: Garok Nor Rabble Rabble Rabble... we should all quit and join that other Space Empire Building MMO.... Oh wait....... What, World of Warcraft? :O
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:48:00 - [1646] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: TehPhil Originally by: PJRid**** CCP is going to have to be real careful here. If they bann them,...there has got to be some way to see if these people STAY BANNED, MAC number addressing maybe? An IP is far too easy to change. >R< Ah right changing their Network cards will be an incredible task for them Dont even need to do that, modifying the MAC isn't hard. The only way CCP can ensure banning someone is to throttle everything coming from his ISP and that obvious isn't a good idea Right, because people can't change ISP.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:49:00 - [1647] Originally by: Garok Nor Rabble Rabble Rabble... we should all quit and join that other Space Empire Building MMO.... Oh wait....... Jumpgate Evolution? Super VGA Planets (they just released a new version) There was even talk of French toast But there was none to be had
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:49:00 - [1648] Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: TehPhil Originally by: PJRid** CCP is going to have to be real careful here. If they bann them,...there has got to be some way to see if these people STAY BANNED, MAC number addressing maybe? An IP is far too easy to change. >R< Ah right changing their Network cards will be an incredible task for them Dont even need to do that, modifying the MAC isn't hard. The only way CCP can ensure banning someone is to throttle everything coming from his ISP and that obvious isn't a good idea** Right, because people can't change ISP. There was even talk of French toast But there was none to be had
Kaastosti	Posted - 2008.12.12 18:00:00 - [1649] I'm currently working to get my own POS up and running... but don't want to do anything that's going to get me banned. What was it they exploited? Then at least I know whether or not I'm about to enter the danger zone ;)
FirstWolf Gallente Telis Fleet Yard	Posted - 2008.12.12 18:07:00 - [1650] CCP... Thanks for stopping the exploit and crushing those that where cheating. You do good work. Now for the ranting children that have nothing but hate here are a few words for you. When has the ranting at CCP ever solved anything. really?!? To what end? Really what wrong has been done to you that you need to come and complain to CCP that they fixed an exploit!! These people around the world are working hard so you can play a game. A GAME not build you a house or feed your family. And it is 15 bucks a month. WOW has more issues and it is 15 bucks + a fracking 40 buck expansion every year or so. CCP owes you nothing, no explanations no lists of who, NOTHING! When did CCP rip you off? Never!! They strive to do the best they can for all of us. Get over it! The involved parties where stomped on by CCP. I love the game and I donÆt care who made isk or what they did with it. All I care is that it is fixed and we move on. There is plenty of pew pew left and now people and corps without unlimited funds to crush >:) Thank you CCP for all of your work to make such a wonderful game that so many enjoy everyday! And Thanks to all the players that make the game and the forums fun with good help and intelligent discussion. Steve



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