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URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.15 22:08:00 -
[2761]
You are correct, you don't have any economic insight..If you did, you would know and understand exactly what I am saying.
I do know about the economy.. real and eve.. I work for a manufacturer who produces goods sold around the world.
I am a manufacturer in EvE as well as in real life.. I produce ships, modules and buy and sell on the market. I know what it takes to make items and sell them.
Eve has a base of raw materials. A base of components required to make larger components. And then larger player usable items made sometimes from raw material and other times from those components made from raw material.
You are asking me to trust the fox in the hen house. And that is something no logical person can do.
These numbers are cut and dry. If you input x to output y and there is giant gap between something smells. This is a virtual enron we are talking about.
This is 4 years, I do not believe CCP is so dumb as to miss this for that long.
As someone who deals in numbers and dollars in the hundreds of millions. I just don't buy it.
CCP is a business, if you don't think they would do something to help increase their sales figures. You are just being naive.
 Quote:
A tragic situation exists precisely when virtue does not triumph but when it is still felt that man is nobler than the forces which destroy him. - George Orwell
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Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 22:44:00 -
[2762]
Originally by: URUS FORGE
You are correct, you don't have any economic insight..If you did, you would know and understand exactly what I am saying.
I do know about the economy.. real and eve.. I work for a manufacturer who produces goods sold around the world.
I am a manufacturer in EvE as well as in real life.. I produce ships, modules and buy and sell on the market. I know what it takes to make items and sell them.
Eve has a base of raw materials. A base of components required to make larger components. And then larger player usable items made sometimes from raw material and other times from those components made from raw material.
You are asking me to trust the fox in the hen house. And that is something no logical person can do.
These numbers are cut and dry. If you input x to output y and there is giant gap between something smells. This is a virtual enron we are talking about.
This is 4 years, I do not believe CCP is so dumb as to miss this for that long.
As someone who deals in numbers and dollars in the hundreds of millions. I just don't buy it.
CCP is a business, if you don't think they would do something to help increase their sales figures. You are just being naive.
So this is it is it...your last argument. This is the best you can do...Say I dont understand economics. This is your basis for all you're saying in all your posts..that I don't understand economics.
Look good Sir, I said I'm not an economist.. I'm a programmer, nor do I know how CCP's economist does his work, what data is available to him and how it is available to him nor do I know what he/they use to analyse the market, nor do you.
Do I understand economics? Yes I do, you don't need to be an economist to be able to.
You fail again, again, again, again, again and yet again to be realistic, account for all the variables, the differences between reaction, production, transactions, trades and the system they are all in, and how that data is processed. You just don't have a foot to stand on, and the best you can come up with..is saying I don't understand economics, coming from what you started with .. I would normally be surprised, but you're just another one of those people who want things to be bad..for CCP to be the villain.
There is no fox in the hen house..and it certainly has nothing to do with logic. I mean where are you getting these analogies?? If the hen house is EVE or even the EVE Market, then the fox built the bloody thing to begin with..wha...you..this...look this is needlessly absurd.
"These numbers" the hell do you mean "these numbers"..WHAT numbers??, you're pulling these "numbers" out of thin air.
"If you input x to output y" - I ask for the 6th of 7th time that you please explain how CCP processes data in EVE..You can't just slap a vague silly example onto it without knowing how it works to begin with. You are assuming again that you can see that sort of thing to begin with in an easy way.
Originally by: URUS FORGE
This is 4 years, I do not believe CCP is so dumb as to miss this for that long.
You really can't read can you, or you just don't get it...EVE is FULL of errors, loopholes and faulty code just like ANY system is. There is currently plenty more loopholes in EVE, it's just a matter of time before the next one is discovered.
If you're going to harp on the idea that I don't understand economics, then I say it's a good thing this exploit was a coding problem, and since I'm a programmer I will further add that it's *YOU* who has no idea what you're dealing with. I really didn't want to say that, but if this is a battle of "whos more professionally qualified to talk about the POS exploit", I have you beat by far.
Last but not least..of course CCP does things to increase it's sales figures, every company in the world does. If you think that equates to something like the POS exploit, you're being stupid, cause the POS exploit did nothing of the sort.
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URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.16 00:56:00 -
[2763]
I was simply agreeing with you on your lack of understanding the basics of economics.
CCP has an economists: Yes
Definition of economist: Someone who studies the underlying economic factors and trends. In a real world the outcome that information could be used to slow it down, speed it up..etc..etc.
EvEs most basic economic materials: Isk, Minerals, Ice, Blueprints and of course the players themselves who build, mine and sell.
This so-called "exploit" involved moon goo.. I think we can agree on that.
You claim you understand a POS.. so you may know what a years worth of moon mining can produce if you had it fueled 365 days and someone was there maintaining it all the time. These are the basic economic numbers I am talking about
The Fuel is the input
The MMs are the output
Now it is the economists responsability to know how much raw material exists in the game as to predict an outcome of fast, slow, neutral economy.. and provide possible advice on how to structure certian items as to keep the wheels turning so to speak.
Without these basic numbers.. well any thing you come up with as an economist is basically a crock!
So now imagine for a moment this 'exploit' in practice.. billions of materials produced by "several" pos's and sold or used for whatever. We are talking massive quantities flowing for free.
No suddenly it drys up.. and just like a real world economy. It responds by raising the prices of every item that was produced by the specific materials in question. Jita was wiped out in a day of all existing inventory and then the prices skyrocketed.
If you were someone who traded GTCs.. the isk you get for 1 GTC can't buy as much. Which means you might buy a 2nd ..
Now who would you say sees the most benefit from prices being driven up and more GTC sales? hmm gee is it you? nooo me? nooo CCP? ding ding ding ding
I understand that there are coding problems with any game.. Here is the game I worked on in 2004.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/heavy-gear-forever
CCP touts these things around pretty strong.. the "crack" economist.. there amazing dev team.. Well this aint so amazing.
So I have to believe now
That CCPs coders and economist missed this for 4 years.. I am also lead to believe that no one reported this in 4 years... when about a half dozen people in this thread have claimed to have reported it repeatedly.
Sorry I don't buy it.. it's like driving a car for 4 years and not noticing that it had a flat tire all that time. I just can not believe there is no involvement from CCP on this one.
Quote:
A tragic situation exists precisely when virtue does not triumph but when it is still felt that man is nobler than the forces which destroy him. - George Orwell
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Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 08:58:00 -
[2764]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 16/01/2009 09:03:42
Originally by: URUS FORGE
Sorry I don't buy it.. it's like driving a car for 4 years and not noticing that it had a flat tire all that time. I just can not believe there is no involvement from CCP on this one.
Then no amount of information, argument or reasoning can convince you otherwise..you don't care about the variables the proves you wrong, you don't care about data format, you don't care how coding works, you don't care about all the things that have to happen for this sort of thing to even have a slight chance of detection, you don't care about how things work in reality..you only care about how things work according to your head, and such I'm done with this conversation. Goodday Sir
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Rutger Centemus
Joint Empire Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.16 13:01:00 -
[2765]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: URUS FORGE
Cadela, thank you for your post.
CCP did not report this, this was reported on a 3rd party site. CCP only took action after it became a big topic by players.
No problem, now onto your reply:
Not sure what site that was..SHC?
I mean I didn't know about it till it was something plastered on the Eve-O site by CCP. So are you saying CCP should be better and more paranoid forum surfers than me? I mean..why is it they should know better than me in figuring these things out?
If no one reports the incident..how would they know?
Not sure what you mean by "CCP only took action after it became a big topic by players". From information currently available, The Kugu-thread came after the thread on SHC, which is predated by a thread on the German Eve-O - site. These threads are all after the banning of (some of the) accounts involved in the exploit. |
Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 13:11:00 -
[2766]
Originally by: Rutger Centemus
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: URUS FORGE
Cadela, thank you for your post.
CCP did not report this, this was reported on a 3rd party site. CCP only took action after it became a big topic by players.
No problem, now onto your reply:
Not sure what site that was..SHC?
I mean I didn't know about it till it was something plastered on the Eve-O site by CCP. So are you saying CCP should be better and more paranoid forum surfers than me? I mean..why is it they should know better than me in figuring these things out?
If no one reports the incident..how would they know?
Not sure what you mean by "CCP only took action after it became a big topic by players". From information currently available, The Kugu-thread came after the thread on SHC, which is predated by a thread on the German Eve-O - site. These threads are all after the banning of (some of the) accounts involved in the exploit.
Ah, sorry my mistake then..I don't honestly know how the information came about. Like I said earlier, I first learned about it when it was plastered on the EVE-O site by CCP. Mr. Urus Forge is the one you have to ask for clarification on whatever it was he said.
The point was that they can't just know out of thin air without it being reported somehow. |
PJRiddick
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Posted - 2009.01.16 13:30:00 -
[2767]
Just a quick question for yo all,....
have any of you seen any prices with in the market that have fallen or risen majorly scence the exploit has been found and CCP did there thing?
Im just wondering,...I realy havent seen much of a rise/drop in prices in mods/fittings/ships. Im not sure if the availablility has changed any but then i really havent taken notice to that but then i am close to the oursoulart area and i ususally go there if i need anything that i cant find local.
Scence the bust sofar i have put together two ships and except for the normal rise/fall of th emarket,..i really havent seen much of a flux in the market.
>>>Just staying active in the discussion<<<
>R<
Peace to you all,..-10 degrees this morning at 4 am in morgantown west virginia!,...
later
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URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.16 14:12:00 -
[2768]
yep nothing smells here.. now that what 8 posts where deleted?
Quote:
A tragic situation exists precisely when virtue does not triumph but when it is still felt that man is nobler than the forces which destroy him. - George Orwell
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Lone Gunman
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:37:00 -
[2769]
Originally by: PJRid****
Just a quick question for yo all,....
have any of you seen any prices with in the market that have fallen or risen majorly scence the exploit has been found and CCP did there thing?
Im just wondering,...I realy havent seen much of a rise/drop in prices in mods/fittings/ships. Im not sure if the availablility has changed any but then i really havent taken notice to that but then i am close to the oursoulart area and i ususally go there if i need anything that i cant find local.
Scence the bust sofar i have put together two ships and except for the normal rise/fall of th emarket,..i really havent seen much of a flux in the market.
>>>Just staying active in the discussion<<<
>R<
Peace to you all,..-10 degrees this morning at 4 am in morgantown west virginia!,...
later
Are you kidding, Dysprosium the base component for Ferrogel the most exploited Advanced material was already on the rise when the ban hammer hit and has now doubled since November. The Advanced materials Fermonic Condensates , Ferrogel and Hypersynaptic Fibers which require Dysprosium have now doubled since the exploit was announced. It now cost 63% more to build Tech 2 Cruisers than it did this time last month. The ship producers are not making as much profit as they were before that is why you as not seeing much of a rise in prices although they have gone up an average of about 15 to 20 percent.
Alchemy has been a complete and utter failure as predicted.
I am in Los Angeles California and today it will get up to 80 Deg F, 27 C. I think I will go to the beach.
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Billy Blanco
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:50:00 -
[2770]
Edited by: Billy Blanco on 16/01/2009 18:50:49
Dunno about you but I'm waiting for the POS exploit drama bomb about to hit **********'s forum.
Edit - Wtf! that forum's name is filtered?
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Lone Gunman
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:06:00 -
[2771]
HA! Using the "K" word on these forums will get you banned for life. Besides they has been talking about it for weeks.
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URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:42:00 -
[2772]
and Lone Gunman..
as someone who is obviously well informed on what it takes to manufacture..
Would you agree that people will buy/trade more GTCs now that prices are up?
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Lone Gunman
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Posted - 2009.01.16 22:17:00 -
[2773]
Edited by: Lone Gunman on 16/01/2009 22:17:50
Yes, as ISK prices for GTCÆs rise there will be more people willing to convert disposable income for GTCÆs and trade for ISK. But because of the economy there will be a lot less people making GTCÆs available for trade than there are people who are able to come up with the 700m ISK for a 60 day time card and therefore feel they can play for ôfreeö.
So as things stand now I can only see prices getting higher. Especially if the player base continues to grow and the economy continues to languish as they appears to be doing.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.17 01:43:00 -
[2774]
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 17/01/2009 01:43:12
Well, a second alliance has been exposed:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975191
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URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.17 06:13:00 -
[2775]
Hmm drugs too eh? not surprised.. I am betting this goes deeper than even this.
Lone.. I think GTC sales will increase.. and my theory is that was the intended outcome. Create the expliot..flood the market.. then crush it, creating a huge need for what was once plentiful.
In either event .. it seems those who play within the rules.. get the short end of the stick. |
Mecinea Lua
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Posted - 2009.01.17 07:41:00 -
[2776]
Originally by: PJRid****
Just a quick question for yo all,....
have any of you seen any prices with in the market that have fallen or risen majorly scence the exploit has been found and CCP did there thing?
Im just wondering,...I realy havent seen much of a rise/drop in prices in mods/fittings/ships. Im not sure if the availablility has changed any but then i really havent taken notice to that but then i am close to the oursoulart area and i ususally go there if i need anything that i cant find local.
Scence the bust sofar i have put together two ships and except for the normal rise/fall of th emarket,..i really havent seen much of a flux in the market.
>>>Just staying active in the discussion<<<
>R<
Peace to you all,..-10 degrees this morning at 4 am in morgantown west virginia!,...
later
It has not really yet been long enough probably to have the market work itself out.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.01.17 07:44:00 -
[2777]
Originally by: Lone Gunman
Originally by: PJRid****
Just a quick question for yo all,....
have any of you seen any prices with in the market that have fallen or risen majorly scence the exploit has been found and CCP did there thing?
Im just wondering,...I realy havent seen much of a rise/drop in prices in mods/fittings/ships. Im not sure if the availablility has changed any but then i really havent taken notice to that but then i am close to the oursoulart area and i ususally go there if i need anything that i cant find local.
Scence the bust sofar i have put together two ships and except for the normal rise/fall of th emarket,..i really havent seen much of a flux in the market.
>>>Just staying active in the discussion<<<
>R<
Peace to you all,..-10 degrees this morning at 4 am in morgantown west virginia!,...
later
Are you kidding, Dysprosium the base component for Ferrogel the most exploited Advanced material was already on the rise when the ban hammer hit and has now doubled since November. The Advanced materials Fermonic Condensates , Ferrogel and Hypersynaptic Fibers which require Dysprosium have now doubled since the exploit was announced. It now cost 63% more to build Tech 2 Cruisers than it did this time last month. The ship producers are not making as much profit as they were before that is why you as not seeing much of a rise in prices although they have gone up an average of about 15 to 20 percent.
Alchemy has been a complete and utter failure as predicted.
I am in Los Angeles California and today it will get up to 80 Deg F, 27 C. I think I will go to the beach.
I figured up the cost to build a Purifier at present costs using a 9 run invented BPC. Let's just say its not pretty. At present cost just material cost is just below 3 times the cost that you can find them on the market.
Now some had the old materials stockpiled, those who had bought it from the market and not been banned or had it removed. Once those materials run out, the cost of any t2 ship will rise again towards what they once were. How much they'll rise will depend on how many BPOs were lost in the bannings. It may affect some models more heavilty than others.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.17 14:11:00 -
[2778]
Check this admitted participant..who explaines the exploit further down.
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=21936
Trying to find it, but I found another person who is band..basically saying he saw POSs owned by some of the largest corps/alliances.. pretty much doing the same thing.
I will post it when I find it again..
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URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.17 17:44:00 -
[2779]
People claiming one major corp having the exact starbase setup required to achieve this exploit.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=945053 |
Rutger Centemus
Joint Empire Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.17 18:57:00 -
[2780]
Originally by: URUS FORGE
People claiming one major corp having the exact starbase setup required to achieve this exploit.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=945053
Some people can be thick, but you, dear sir, take the cake...
Also: l2link? |
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URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.17 21:24:00 -
[2781]
Edited by: URUS FORGE on 17/01/2009 21:26:34
So it is now thick to post a link with possibly relevant information? If you knew me better, you would know.. that I don't want what I am finding to be true.
I would rather find that other corps big & small play within the rules with minor exceptions. When one looks at low/nosec.. the common concensus is that not much goes on there without the monster corps and alliances knowing about it.
I would say that thick..
* Is believing that CCP misses anything for 4 years.
* That an economist would miss an exploit involving the fundamental pieces which make up the EvE economy.
* That the largest corps/alliances were completely unaware of this considering the odd nature of this POS set up.
So either CCP, Their economists, and the major corp alliances are either incompetents for missing this
or
They are super genius for being able to keep it quiet this long.
Barring any new information.. I'd say masterful piece of work!
No matter what side of the fence you fall on.. a poster on any EvE forum has as much if not more credability than CCPs statements. |
Mikhalio
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:20:00 -
[2782]
Just posting to say the Pos exploit, for an economist was impossible to predict in much the same way subprime bubbled along totally undetected in federal data reports.
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URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.18 02:31:00 -
[2783]
ok you say that.. but please go into detail. Because per CCP in the interview about this exploit.. they on one hand claim to be able to see imbalances.. but saaaay that with the billions traded it was hard to see at 1st.
CCP says this is "like" a dupe exploit..
Now I can buy that "at 1st" they might miss this .. but this is 4 years.. and multi trillions.
Cause to me an economists of any worth would be looking at these specific interchanges regularly to make assesments as to how certian economic sectors might be to hot or to cold.
So the only way you could be correct is if the economist never looked at the balance of moon mining consumption and production in the last 3 years.
The imbalance being the obvious lack of fuel used vs material produced.
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PJRiddick
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Posted - 2009.01.18 12:08:00 -
[2784]
It seems to me that the expolit did nthing but keep the proces down for people. With the people that were using the exploit however it tended to flood the market with goods and kept the prices on an over all down.
Im not old enuf >in game< to realy get into manufacturing, at present im jsut able to hold my head above water as it is financially. If ican get out to run some missions with out getting shot at bo other players sometimes is a miracle,...but thats eve isnt it!
I spose that manufacturing is a different story all together.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
7:06 AM Sunday morning and 33 degrees in morgantown WVA. I live in an old mining company house out back of town,...renovated and kind of nice,...had frozen water pipes yesterday,...but alls good now
Fly safe
>R< |
Darth Shenron
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Posted - 2009.01.18 12:10:00 -
[2785]
Originally by: Lone Gunman
Originally by: PJRid****
Just a quick question for yo all,....
have any of you seen any prices with in the market that have fallen or risen majorly scence the exploit has been found and CCP did there thing?
Im just wondering,...I realy havent seen much of a rise/drop in prices in mods/fittings/ships. Im not sure if the availablility has changed any but then i really havent taken notice to that but then i am close to the oursoulart area and i ususally go there if i need anything that i cant find local
Scence the bust sofar i have put together two ships and except for the normal rise/fall of th emarket,..i really havent seen much of a flux in the market.
>>>Just staying active in the discussion<<<
>R<
Peace to you all,..-10 degrees this morning at 4 am in morgantown west virginia!,...
later
Are you kidding, Dysprosium the base component for Ferrogel the most exploited Advanced material was already on the rise when the ban hammer hit and has now doubled since November. The Advanced materials Fermonic Condensates , Ferrogel and Hypersynaptic Fibers which require Dysprosium have now doubled since the exploit was announced. It now cost 63% more to build Tech 2 Cruisers than it did this time last month. The ship producers are not making as much profit as they were before that is why you as not seeing much of a rise in prices although they have gone up an average of about 15 to 20 percent.
Alchemy has been a complete and utter failure as predicted.
------------------------------------------------------------
Not supprising really, should have based it on normal minerals. thus raising there prices,( That would please the miners). A mix of 3 minerals to make product A 3 other minerals to make product B, A +B = Tech II componant ( keep the pew pew brigade happy).
job done 
I'm in england. Wheres my umbrella |
Droog 1
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Posted - 2009.01.18 12:41:00 -
[2786]
Edited by: Droog 1 on 18/01/2009 12:41:29
Originally by: URUS FORGE
No matter what side of the fence you fall on.. a poster on any EvE forum has as much if not more credability than CCPs statements.
No they don't. YOU choose to believe someone who was banned for exploiting and not CCP.
That's your problem not CCPs.
To me you are the only poster with low credibility. It's your choice to think that this has been going on for 4 years and it's your choice to believe something you read on the internet as gospel. It's your choice to believe that this is a CCP conspiracy to sell more GTCs. You can believe whatever you want but don't expect others to subscribe to your brand of paranoia, lies, and half baked assumptions.
You can speculate all you want and come up with all sorts of scenarios in your mind until CCP give us more details and then we can all point a finger at you and laugh and tell you that you were wrong. Unfortunately, because you have already proved that you hold cheaters and exploiters in higher reverance than CCP you will not be satisfied with anything CCP says and will continue to pay CCP to play their game while believing the company to be corrupt.
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Rutger Centemus
Joint Empire Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.18 13:58:00 -
[2787]
Edited by: Rutger Centemus on 18/01/2009 13:59:13
Originally by: URUS FORGE
So it is now thick to post a link with possibly relevant information? If you knew me better, you would know.. that I don't want what I am finding to be true.
URUS, I think Droog1 much more aptly worded most of my opinions and concerns.
FWIW: that thread was one of the more obvious flamebaits on the matter. A member of Goonswarm and some other people (hostile to BoB or alts) posting they saw 'something' with POS' in BOB's territory. You / your character might have been around for some years. You might be a 38-year old handling 'hundreds of millions in real life'. If you can't see a post such as that for what it is, I'm happy that you're certainly no employee of mine.
Extrapolating the expected value over the (possible) 4 year - period that it was around? Check some old info on prices, quantities and production-bottlenecks from before invention. As an older character into production you would probably know that the major bottleneck for t2 prior to invention wasn't the moonmaterials, but the amount of BPO's in production.
The "the economist didn't see it !!11eleven" - remark? Yeah, if you know what to look for, it's easy to find things out. Sometimes, information-overload can be much more complicating or even damaging as having not enough info. I'm not 100% sure what the Doc's tasks with CCP are, but if a system isn't set-up for tracking each and every single change in a DB, especially one as broad and deep as Eve, it will be very hard to find out what's going on. Especially for someone that's for whatever reason already running late on several of his 'quarterly' reports . Again - if that even were his, or anyone elses task - not sure on that.
By the by, a small tip when linking to other URL's (other posts / threads / sites etc.): click the 'link' button (5th from the link) first, and copy the link into there, after which you can name the link. Just copy-pasting the URL directly into a post won't give a working link. Have fun, knock yourself out.
Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.01.18 15:37:00 -
[2788]
Originally by: Mikhalio
Just posting to say the Pos exploit, for an economist was impossible to predict in much the same way subprime bubbled along totally undetected in federal data reports.
Since there were many respectable people warning for exactly this credit-crises based on fantasy prices for houses and that they warned about exactly that scenario which we now experience - do you mean that the pos exploit should have been discovered by ccp on their own and much earlier?
If not for the whistleblower I wonder how long the exploit would have been gone undetected.
Anyway ... any news from the investigation? |
URUS FORGE
Caldari
THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.01.18 19:25:00 -
[2789]
I have not chosen to believe anyone.. I have chosen to try and find out what has happend. I would say that I have pointed out what is 'most likely' based on the information at hand.
It could be a x major corp pointing fingers at y corp and y corp denying it.. I can only go by all the pieces of the puzzle. Putting one in.. taking one out.. and seeing what is most likely. All of the major corps have had their hands caught in the cookie jar at some point. So again.. I am left with 'who do I believe?'
I do not believe CCP anymore than I believe a poster on a forum.. maybe that didn't come across in the wording as well as it should have. My meaning simply was that CCPs cred is absolutely at question here. And if you look at the pieces I have found.. and you believe CCP to be intelligent people.. then it is very hard to think they missed this for 4 years. I think we both know it would take at least 3 years to have the skills to hold a POS in low/nosec.
The pieces of what I have posted.. could just as easily be the truth as what ccp has told us.. which is far to little in my opinion.
I will hold my ground on a few points.. as long as CCP is playing this game vs. its own customers I will not trust them! It is an unfair advantage to have a member of CCP in anyones corp. I will not budge from that belief.
I will also hold my ground on the economists missing this problem. MM is a fundamental part of builing T2 in EvE. We are talking about something as basic as trit here. I will give missing it for a short time.. but much beyond 2yrs of missing this? I will go back to the 2 options.. a)involved in exploit or b)not qualified for the job
This guy should have had spreadsheet after spreadsheet of fuel consumption vs production.
I will give that there is much conspiracy here and little fact.. but CCP has forced players to find their own answers. So we have to choose what to believe! |
Kel'Tor
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:05:00 -
[2790]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
We have discovered an exploit involving starbases that made it possible for some players to gain an unfair advantage over others.
...unfair?
I have read a post of a banned dude stating his alliance made 3000 billions in 4years, calculated that is 2bills/day.
Considering I make 200mills at most per day....10 times my income in 4years is not unfair ... I feel now like I lived in a swamp while others were affording titans and were building outposts....
In my point of view there is a limit where fairness ends and obliteration begins...
While I do not regret the advantage the exploiters had until now over everyone else, I do wonder what you will be finding out in about 4years from now?
Maybe I speak only for myself, but fairness is 90% of the gameplay...why should we pay and play when others cheat, don't pay and play.
Not that life is fair in any way but let the eve dream be!
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