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Massive Supercarrier nerf intentional?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Obsidian Hawk Free Galactic Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:13:00 - [1531] We are getting off the topic here people we need to stick to the facts. 1. even with +2 drones per level motherships still suck and cant kill dreads. It needs to be +3 drones per level 2. they are too cheap at 5 billion Motherships need to be at least 10 billion -16 billion. If you want to reduce the cost, reduce the cost to build the clone vat. . personally all i need to do is sell my thanatos and moros and i could buy one easily. 3. WHAT ABOUT THE BUILDERS AND TEH PEOPLE TRYING TO SELL THEM CURRENTLY?? you are not only giving the pilots of these great vessels the shaft, you are giving the builders the shaft too. Everytime someone tries to sell a mothership there are 10 posts of 5 billion bids and Zymurgist coming in to delete these posts. 4. How are you going to reimburse players for spendign the 18-20 billion 5. How are you going to prevent docking games? /fake edit, page 50 its a threadnaught now REMEMBER VOICE YOUR OPINIONS HERE ALSO CSM THREAD oh and when you hit post in there remember to click the support box.
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:19:00 - [1532] 50 pages, no explanation. ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:26:00 - [1533] Originally by: Chicken Breasts Dreads are and always will be the mainstay dps and body of a cap fleet and are worlds more efficient per ISK. Don't try and word it like the "anti-capital dps" role is solely covered by supercaps. Supercaps are just going to do it better per ship (hopefully). I didn't try to word it like anything. Dreads will STILL be more a more efficient platform for massive amounts of DPS. That the supercarrier is being changed to a much more expensive and more mobile anti-cap dps platform testifies to CCPs believing that there is a NEED for such a ship. But of course, the professional game designers, the ones who have access to much more information about the state of the game are wrong--they always are--especially when they get in the way of you owning a supercarrier as part of "look at my epeen" club. Quote: It's 8 total ships in the entire game. Give me a break. So what. Its an entire TIER of ships that are priced out to almost EVERYONE in the game. Because we really need 8 ships meant to fill particular roles, that less than 1% of eve can actually afford to buy. In any case, the top 4 ships of the tier remain protected, as do all of the available trophy ships that you are more than free to buy and fly around if you really need to shove your "epeen" in people's faces. Quote: No, they are changing it so that the ship includes something more than being rare and shiny so it may very well be worth the money/risk to actually use them. So now you're saying that its not in the essence that they're big, exclusive, and shiny? In any event, CCP is actually redfining the role of these ships in such a way as to make your characterization baseless. That might be how YOU want them to be changed, but as of this moment, that isn't how they're actually being changed. Quote: Yet you lump guardian vexors and titans in the same category only a few lines up. Only because, according to you and your ilk, these ships have exclusivity in their essence, and they're worthless to you without it. Thus I tell you to buy a Titan or a guardian vexor--these remain bastions of exclusivity. My sig don't fracking work.
Tesha	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:31:00 - [1534] lol the ammount for crying here is just awsome, sweet sweet supercap pilot tears mmmh.. I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, dont listen to the "i wanna solo in my supercap" idiots, go ccp!
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:38:00 - [1535] Originally by: Tesha I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, dont listen to the "i wanna solo in my supercap" idiots, go ccp! Going by that logic you should shut up. Since the only people backing the changes are the people who you described yourself. Sweet delicious irony. Tastes 150% more nutritious than Supercap tears. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Serena Ku Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:51:00 - [1536] Originally by: Tesha lol the ammount for crying here is just awsome, sweet sweet supercap pilot tears mmmh.. I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, dont listen to the "i wanna solo in my supercap" idiots, go ccp! Wow, your ignorance and/or stupidity is astonishing.
Obsidian Hawk Free Galactic Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.18 06:22:00 - [1537] Originally by: Serena Ku Originally by: Tesha lol the ammount for crying here is just awsome, sweet sweet supercap pilot tears mmmh.. I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, I want to be in a cap battle with soo many fighter bombers on the field I cant log into EvE until after the battle is over only to find that im in my new clone cause soo many citidel torps were going all over the place causing desyncs and node crashes. Wow, your ignorance and/or stupidity is astonishing. Fixed.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.11.18 06:43:00 - [1538] Edited by: Karlemgne on 18/11/2009 06:43:18 Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Originally by: Serena Ku Originally by: Tesha lol the ammount for crying here is just awsome, sweet sweet supercap pilot tears mmmh.. I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, I want to be in a cap battle with soo many fighter bombers on the field I cant log into EvE until after the battle is over only to find that im in my new clone cause soo many citidel torps were going all over the place causing desyncs and node crashes. Wow, your ignorance and/or stupidity is astonishing. Fixed. Oh, now its about lag issues caused by fighter bombers? Yet, I'm sure, you remain steadfastly opposed to the new "nerf" restricting the number of FBs deployable by supercarriers. You guys really need to get together, pick an argument and stick to it, instead of changing your tune every 15 minutes. My sig don't fracking work.
Chicken Breasts	Posted - 2009.11.18 07:11:00 - [1539] Originally by: Karlemgne I didn't try to word it like anything. Dreads will STILL be more a more efficient platform for massive amounts of DPS. That the supercarrier is being changed to a much more expensive and more mobile anti-cap dps platform testifies to CCPs believing that there is a NEED for such a ship. There really is no "need" for supercarriers. Just like there really is no need for T2, T3, faction or uniques. Yet they exist to give the game variety, flavor and ships to strive for at different levels of one's eve carrier. Just because you don't care to fly the ships (very) loosely labeled as "endgame" doesn't mean their placement on that level isn't important to others. You stick to small gang low-sec roaming and that's perfectly fine. Quote: But of course, the professional game designers, the ones who have access to much more information about the state of the game are wrong--they always are--especially when they get in the way of you owning a supercarrier as part of "look at my epeen" club. Still on about the epeen thing, eh? And yes, game designers are often wrong (as are the players). Especially when said game designers (like Nozh) clearly don't play the game and have numbers and spreadsheets but no "real" knowledge of the game. Quote: Because we really need 8 ships meant to fill particular roles, that less than 1% of eve can actually afford to buy. See, I might almost believe you when you say you aren't trying to word it so it looks like SCs/dreads are in some special role dreads can't fill and "poorer" people (you know, not in my "ilk") will be missing out on having that role filled, if it weren't for you saying lines like this. Quote: In any case, the top 4 ships of the tier remain protected, as do all of the available trophy ships that you are more than free to buy and fly around if you really need to shove your "epeen" in people's faces. Sorry, but a guardian vexor or any other "trophy" ship doesn't do that well in combat. I actually own zero pure trophy ships. Titans are NOT trophies in the same sense as a guardian vexor so stop grouping them together. Quote: So now you're saying that its not in the essence that they're big, exclusive, and shiny? In any event, CCP is actually redfining the role of these ships in such a way as to make your characterization baseless. That might be how YOU want them to be changed, but as of this moment, that isn't how they're actually being changed. Read what I said again. It really was quite clear. Quote: Only because, according to you and your ilk, these ships have exclusivity in their essence, and they're worthless to you without it. Thus I tell you to buy a Titan or a guardian vexor--these remain bastions of exclusivity. Again, you don't seem to get the point. Nor did I ever say SCs were worthless to me without their currently level of "Exclusivity". In fact that is the least of my concerns when it comes to Nozh's changes. P.S. Who exactly is "my ilk", anyways?
Obsidian Hawk Free Galactic Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.18 07:49:00 - [1540] Originally by: Karlemgne Edited by: Karlemgne on 18/11/2009 06:43:18 [ Oh, now its about lag issues caused by fighter bombers? Yet, I'm sure, you remain steadfastly opposed to the new "nerf" restricting the number of FBs deployable by supercarriers. You guys really need to get together, pick an argument and stick to it, instead of changing your tune every 15 minutes. The restriction on motherships does not just apply to fighter bombers. It also applies to regular fighters, and applies to regular drones. A mothership has extreme versitility based on the 20 drone amount. example is 20 sentries shooting as a pos, or 20 repair drones in groups of 5 going around around an doing logistics. heres what woudl happen. 1 nyx atm is about 20 billion with fittings, that woudl be 20 drones. With the proposed changes you could get ~ 4 nyxes for the same price and have 45 + drones out on the field instead. By this logic you have over 2x the amount of the drones on the field doing many more server calls for targets and firing and tracking. Thats why i brought up the lag issue. when you have more elements on the field it brings more stress to the servers in processing them.

R0ze Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.18 11:31:00 - [1541] Originally by: Karlemgne And they're changing that so the essence of the ship is an anti-cap dps platform. And that's what this whine thread is about.. Noone can't see where after the last changes the ANTI-Capital role has been squeesed in.. as they can't kill a single capital instead a new role has appeared "station huggers".. If you wanted some new role a T2 carrier as people suggestted would be much better choice. Originally by: Karlemgne If you want a shiny epeen go buy yourself a Titan.. The funny thing is I have one.. and its even worthless (except you can only play a mobile POS-module now) than a MS (but thats another thread again).
Severion Atarkos	Posted - 2009.11.18 13:23:00 - [1542] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Wow, overreaction much? Sheesh. I'm going to laugh my ass off when CCP decides the changes aren't a good idea and revert to original idea. You people act like this is the permanent change. Yet its still half a month away. It will be indeed hilarious you knee-jerking people. lol lol and finally: lol --Isaac how cute he actually has faith CCP would do something that makes sense
fairimear Gallente Esto Perpetua	Posted - 2009.11.18 15:30:00 - [1543] 50 pages even with ccp stealth editing and another day with no update. feeling disheartened now much *Bringing a type of class to PL.*
Eniy Oh Gallente United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.11.18 15:40:00 - [1544] I hope the silence on CCP's part means they're behind the scenes frantically trying to fix this. Otherwise I'm gonna call it: MS nerf "best" nerf! --- The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane
Kelly O'Connor Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.11.18 16:46:00 - [1545] Please can we have a response CCP, lots of points (some good and some not) being raised here. Its really not much to ask to get a reply? You are editing out posts for fun so its not as if you dont come here :P Kelly
Caroline Nikon	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:13:00 - [1546] Originally by: Eniy Oh I hope the silence on CCP's part means they're behind the scenes frantically trying to fix this. Otherwise I'm gonna call it: MS nerf "best" nerf! pff no way. MS nerf is no match to the massive naglfar nerf!
Digital Gaidin	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:13:00 - [1547] Where have they said that Supercarriers can dock at any station? My understanding was that the initial change required a very expensive module installed at a station in 0.0 that is player owned? This would allow alliance pilots a place to park their ship (station-wise) while keeping the docking locations relatively few (possibly one per major alliance?). Completely agree regarding station hugging at THOSE stations... but there just seems to be too much emo-raging without enough up-to-date feedback to justify it. Just a guess though... if you'd like to know what they are thinking right now, being civil might get you a lot closer to that information rather than whining, yelling, screaming, throwing a tantrum, emo-raging, threatening to quit, calling the developers idiots, etc.
Aqua Tarkus ZER0. IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:26:00 - [1548] Edited by: Aqua Tarkus on 18/11/2009 17:27:38 Originally by: Digital Gaidin ...a very expensive module... This would allow alliance pilots a place to park their ship (station-wise) while keeping the docking locations relatively few (possibly one per major alliance?). Been there didn't work last time: "2-3 titans for a whole eve-universe" (c) btw currently on SiSi docking was removed at NPC stations like those which are in FD- but I'm not sure about outposts. Nevertheless it will be terrible idea to let them dock at all. And yeah +1 fighter bonus instead of previous +2 while we suggesting to leave at +3. Who needs our feedback anyways :(
McFly C0LDFIRE	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:33:00 - [1549] Edited by: McFly on 18/11/2009 17:36:34 Originally by: Digital Gaidin Where have they said that Supercarriers can dock at any station? They didn't specify, Nozh's last post simply said.. Originally by: CCP Nozh Super Carrier Changes: * Can dock at stations page 28 post 823 CCP Nozh Post Also the outpost upgrade was completely hypothetical as a possibility post dominion. Reference Abathur's Fanfest Presentation on Game Design. The Real reasons for this thread being what it is... - No information from CCP besides short non-specific posts - Entirely too much speculation due to the lack of facts from CCP. - No Update in the last 3 SiSi Patches for us to use to find out for ourselves... - Still no Devblog which was promised to clear things up... - No explanation as to why CCP Nohz announced these changes with... -- very little information -- barely any testing time before release -- and no SiSi update to reflect what's been posted by Nozh. Eve is loaded with having to details of everything you are doing. Yet in this fairly significant change we've yet to recieve any detailed information from Nozh or Abathur as to WTF is going on? 52 pages (including removed posts) and 13 days til dominion... Starting to remind me of The Quantum Rise Blaster Threadnaught....
Digital Gaidin	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:37:00 - [1550] Lets assume that docking can ONLY occur at player owned stations. Lets also assume that for one reason or another, ALL player owned stations can have supercarriers dock. Docking games would suck but infrastructure hubs would be hit instead at all these locations. Unless the hubs can be placed at stations, this requires the defenders to leave the stations (or simply assign fighters but that happens anyways). Killing these behemoths becomes near impossible but their usefulness in defending is mitigated. Where will they die? Trying to evac after a station has fallen. NPC-0.0 and LowSec when an alliance has been ousted from their space. In combat against Dreadnought/Carrier fleets. If they can dock in NPC-0.0 and LowSec, rant away :) -------- If these changes go through they'll be a helluva lot more common... but not being "super capitals" so much anymore and more of a "tier 2 carrier", that's not so bad. Dreadnought fights when mom's come onto the field now usually end up with the moms running ASAP as their tanks start to be melted by focused fire. It'll be nice finding reasons and motivation to keep these ships on the field for some good fights. I look forward to how this will play out. I also hope to pilot a Wyvern one day without having to setup a holding character (my primary motivation for only flying Chimera's right now... Skills being secondary... ISK being a distant tertiary)

Viceroy Defilus Amarr Solar Nexus.	Posted - 2009.11.18 18:23:00 - [1551] STOP! I have the best suggestion: 1 fighter-bomber per Supermegahappycarrier It can use gates and can dock It can launch fighters while docked at a station It can turn into a robot pos with fricken lasers It costs 100mil It can jump anywhere in EVE land 5000% bonus to mining It has a magic-reactor that turns everything into Dyspro You can use it to save the game Where do i send my app to become a dev?
Viceroy Defilus Amarr Solar Nexus.	Posted - 2009.11.18 18:29:00 - [1552] Actually to not troll ccp: - 12bil MOM - 20 FBs - They need to due absolutely rediculous amount of DPS to caps (like you should **** your pants when u see it on the field) None of this lollygagging about close fights with Dreads - No Docking unless extremely expensive Station upgrades in 0.0 thats it. Game over.. don't think about it anymore.
Digital Gaidin	Posted - 2009.11.18 18:38:00 - [1553] Originally by: Viceroy Defilus Actually to not troll ccp: - 12bil MOM - 20 FBs - They need to due absolutely rediculous amount of DPS to caps (like you should **** your pants when u see it on the field) None of this lollygagging about close fights with Dreads - No Docking unless extremely expensive Station upgrades in 0.0 thats it. Game over.. don't think about it anymore. Well, if I'm to **** my pants when I see one of them, what happens when I see 25 of them cyno in together? Dreadnoughts do a ridiculous amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS. These ships with 15 FB (20 with 5x DCU's but no one will EVER do that) do roughly double... assuming of course the fighter bombers are properly implemented (few bugs I'm sure you'll figure out regarding target sig radius and target speed). You are still talking about taking awhile to kill a properly tanked capital ship even with a few supercarriers on the field, but that is preferable to bringing an "I PWN YOU ALL" fleet when 25 IT supercarriers jump in, your 50 man capital gang lags for 2 minutes and when everyone starts getting frames again while waking up in pods/stations.
RoCkEt X Hostile.	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:06:00 - [1554] Originally by: Digital Gaidin Dreadnoughts do a ridiculous amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS. lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure. [.-H-.] Hostile.
Darknesss NibbleTek	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:16:00 - [1555] Originally by: Drachenlord Seriously... the Cost Reduction is fine... It ONLY effects the people who have bought them recently... or just want to hop on that bandwagon to get some money back... In the real world, as I said, you don't get your money back if an investment fails.. simple... Giving them their money back, fine I can deal with that... But anyone that claims that this hurts the people who produce these ships for sale is trying to obfuscate the fact that demand will very likely increase and potentially netting them more profit. Hopefully CCP will remember to reduce the build time to compensate. Since when was buying a Mothership an investment? If I want to invest i'll buy stocks and shares. When I buy an Aston Martin I expect an Aston Martin.
The Internets	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:17:00 - [1556] Originally by: RoCkEt X Originally by: Digital Gaidin Dreadnoughts do a ridiculous amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS. lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure. Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?). Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max. 10000 > 2500, right?
Minmatar citizen4561451	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:26:00 - [1557] Originally by: The Internets Originally by: RoCkEt X Originally by: Digital Gaidin Dreadnoughts do a ridiculous amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS. lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure. Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?). Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max. 10000 > 2500, right? simple math escapes these whiny idiots. They cant see through their blood-soaked eyes and see that the Moms are gunna be better not worse.
SolarKnight Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:27:00 - [1558] Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451 Originally by: The Internets Originally by: RoCkEt X Originally by: Digital Gaidin Dreadnoughts do a ridiculous amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS. lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure. Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?). Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max. 10000 > 2500, right? simple math escapes these whiny idiots. They cant see through their blood-soaked eyes and see that the Moms are gunna be better not worse. Except with only 10 or 15 drones, they still wont be breaking the tank of any dreads, which is their supposed new role... The Light in the Darkness
Ai Mei	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:30:00 - [1559] Dont feed the Minmatar Citizen troll, If he couldnt even spend 30 seconds to come up with proper forum alt name then he doesnt deserved to be fed, or give good feed back.
Aequitas Veritas Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:50:00 - [1560] Im actually starting to fear that theyll keep the FB's the way they are so that the new "supercarriers" wont make normal carriers obsolete. By giving them the ability to only hit supercaps for normal damage and barely do more damage than reg caps to normal ones, they make sure that fighters / carriers still have a role... "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin



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