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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Vrenth
Gallente Lightning Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.11 11:09:00 -
[1]
They were not particularly overpowered before this nerf, seeing as 90% of ships could speed tank them, bringing their dps down to that of equal or lower levels than traditional fighters. The only issues I saw with them having that many fighters was the visual lag created when missile effects were turned on and 20 of those bombs exploded at the same time.
With current figures, they are doing about 40-50% less dps. This brings them down to just above dreadnought damage. Judging their weapon systems are not only destructible, and it is easily shaved off by moving fast or being small... I'd say this nerf was poorly implemented or completely pointless.
If this ties in with motherships being the ship that eventually fills the field with the level of drones that the supercarrier used to field.. then I am okay with that, but the fighter bomber damage needs to dramatically increase. Losing the ability to field 20+ fighter/utility drones, I would say it needs to be raised to it's previous level, if not higher to maintain it's utility.
What this nerf has essentially done is taken away it's role and turned it in to a giant flying chunk of HP... which is only a slight improvement on the previously useless "mothership"
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The Kan
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.11 12:21:00 -
[2]
yay \o/ back to useless paperweight
why field a ship so expensive just to do slightly above dread damage?
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.11.11 12:25:00 -
[3]
>:|
Not cool CCP.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.11 12:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Serena Ku on 11/11/2009 12:32:13 Indeed, in fact all of the latest sisi supercapitals are practically worthless. I hope this is some sick joke on CCP's part than an actual nerf consideration.
If these changes comes into play, I'll finally seriously consider quitting eve (that's how bad it is).
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.11 12:33:00 -
[5]
wellcome to titans world :-) I think ccps intention is just to nerf supercaps so no1 flies them and correct the "error" ccp did, to introduce them.
Well I dont belive it was an error and nerfing them to obvilion w/o counting countless of hours ppl worked to build them (not every1 has moon miners) is a bad thing ________________________________________________
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matrix666
Gallente X.S. Industries Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.11 13:00:00 -
[6]
Can we get a comment from ccp as to this being a mistake or are they getting nerfed to to 10 fighters please?
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.11.11 13:29:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 11/11/2009 13:29:56
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
If this doesn't change back I, too, will be selling a wyvern
I asked a GM in sisi about this as I also logged in and was suprised the Nyx only could launch 10. His response was it is a bug and would be fixed at the next downtime.
We can breathe guys... it's ok.
from: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180138&page=14#392
not directly from CCP but it makes sense cause this being intentional would just be ridiculous, so chillax
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.11 14:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Amy Wang Edited by: Amy Wang on 11/11/2009 13:29:56
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
If this doesn't change back I, too, will be selling a wyvern
I asked a GM in sisi about this as I also logged in and was suprised the Nyx only could launch 10. His response was it is a bug and would be fixed at the next downtime.
We can breathe guys... it's ok.
from: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180138&page=14#392
not directly from CCP but it makes sense cause this being intentional would just be ridiculous, so chillax
Yes, that was me who asked. But this was before I noticed the description also was changed so I guess I am getting paranoid.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.11.11 14:16:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 11/11/2009 14:21:13 yes, I concur
Quote:
Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Capital Energy and Armor transfer range per level 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level Can fit Projected Electronic Counter Measures Can deploy 1 additional Fighter or Drone per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Also note the bandwidth changed from 12500 to 7500 allowing for a maximum of 15 drones/fighters (lvl 5 plus 5 DCUs nobody will fit anyway).
If this is intentional it makes no sense whatsoever, before moms were just overpriced carriers in essence, then they got the boost to make them worthwhile and now this nerf brings them back to overpriced carrier level??
Maybe the idea is to reduce lag by reducing the drone number, that would make sense kinda (although just making the compact-citadel-torp explosion less lag inducing would have dont that trick already lol).
But only if they add a 20% damage and hp bonus to drones/fighters/fighter-bombers per level!
That would actually at the same time reduce the impact smartbombs have on fighter-bombers which is probably a good side effect. And if the fighter-bay sizes stay it will also solve the problem with too little space for spares.
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.11 15:30:00 -
[10]
Please do continue crying.
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.11.11 15:41:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 11/11/2009 15:41:08
Originally by: Mkiaki Please do continue crying.
1. Post with your main. 2. Post useful stuff. 3. If you're a main, then you being in the noob corp is just another proof that you're insanely jealous of the supercap pilots.
---- I'm not a mothership pilot, but if they do slightly more damage than a dread, I can't find a use for them anymore.
edit: spelling
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Mynas Atoch
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:36:00 -
[12]
I just don't get it. Huge, mean looking, expensive to build .. a one time decision for a pilot to get into them and be stuck there unable to change ship. So why nerf them this badly? Their days of virtual invincibility is gone .. no one is going to conquer a quarter of null sec with four of them ever again no matter what you do. It looked for a few weeks like you had given them a role in the game again .. and now you back out? This change is ridiculous and uncalled for. Please reverse it.
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NightHawk VenGarden
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: NightHawk VenGarden on 11/11/2009 16:40:58
Originally by: Mynas Atoch I just don't get it. Huge, mean looking, expensive to build .. a one time decision for a pilot to get into them and be stuck there unable to change ship. So why nerf them this badly? Their days of virtual invincibility is gone .. no one is going to conquer a quarter of null sec with four of them ever again no matter what you do. It looked for a few weeks like you had given them a role in the game again .. and now you back out? This change is ridiculous and uncalled for. Please reverse it.
....quoting Mynas...something i never thought possible.
CCP, are you kidding? So now MOMS = Carriers in terms of fighter deployment for 10x's the price?
And fitting DCU's is a joke, a mom or a carrier without it's high-slots to remote repair in the new 'OMG EHP' age is insane.
This is just stupid CCP, people have been buying up moms everywhere and that alone should show you that even though they will have to do it with care, they want to fight with moms.....now you nerf them without announcement and without giving them a chance? This is ridiculous. |
James Damar
Caldari H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:44:00 -
[14]
Thanks for making me care less that I lost mine CCP. |
Sith8
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch I just don't get it. Huge, mean looking, expensive to build .. a one time decision for a pilot to get into them and be stuck there unable to change ship. So why nerf them this badly? Their days of virtual invincibility is gone .. no one is going to conquer a quarter of null sec with four of them ever again no matter what you do. It looked for a few weeks like you had given them a role in the game again .. and now you back out? This change is ridiculous and uncalled for. Please reverse it.
Quoting Minas
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:52:00 -
[16]
Time to start shopping a new MMO.
Eve had a good run ______________________________
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seliana tanis
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous Time to start shopping a new MMO.
Eve had a good run
Perpetum online looks pretty good manny.
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Ian Logalus
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:09:00 -
[18]
Ooh god let this really be a bug... 10 fighters or drones on a mom... wtf :X 18b down the drain for a regular carrier with double dps :X
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Lialem
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:12:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lialem on 11/11/2009 17:13:31 Rofl. and why should we believe you OP?
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LordMordred
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:33:00 -
[20]
Not some random error then this:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
CCP, sorry but for first time ever I think I'm going to publicly shout at you to PULL YOUR HEAD, OUT OF YOUR ARSE.
This is insane. Reverse or upgrade with a 20% everything per level bonus for fighter bombers.
You gave these ships purpose for being again... now... ??? Maybe some friends are right in their attitude that Eve had a good run while it lasted not sure I'm there yet depends on your official reply.
-----
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:36:00 -
[21]
No. just No.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
no pants
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: LordMordred Not some random error then this:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
CCP, sorry but for first time ever I think I'm going to publicly shout at you to PULL YOUR HEAD, OUT OF YOUR ARSE.
This is insane. Reverse or upgrade with a 20% everything per level bonus for fighter bombers.
You gave these ships purpose for being again... now... ??? Maybe some friends are right in their attitude that Eve had a good run while it lasted not sure I'm there yet depends on your official reply.
someone hasnt read the thread :)
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mineswallower
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:20:00 -
[23]
Sigh, I thought I would have a reason to actually use a Nyx again.
CCP, why dont you try listening to your game designers, who have actually played the game at this level and know about this stuff, rather than just running round screwing up the first decent change you have made in game play in about 3 years? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:20:00 -
[24]
Wow. I have a hard time believing that this was unintentional or a bug since the ship attribute changed, the description changed, and the bandwidth changed. That said...
I was looking at getting a Mom/Supercarrier in Dominion. TBH, it was about the only thing left that really interested me. With this change, I think I will finally be done with Eve... I will be very interested in seeing what happens.
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Areille
Amarr Black Hawk Down Syndrome
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: seliana tanis
Originally by: Manfred Sideous Time to start shopping a new MMO.
Eve had a good run
Perpetum online looks pretty good manny.
I had never heard of that game. Looks really really good :o
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:26:00 -
[26]
CCP can you allow supercapitals to dock 1 time so they can be reprocessed. Because its alot of isk to be tied up in useless ships. This really is a serious request not a troll. It seems that you are not interested in giving players who invest lots of time in training and isk investment any true reward for said effort. So let us reprocess them and use the isk elsewhere because they are useless. I really get the impression that you are afraid to let anyone or anything stand out.
Carrier = 1 bil
Supercarrier = 13-15 bil
Shouldnt the supercarrier be like 10 times more lethal and tough?
Titan = 60 billion
10 min refire on superweapon and 2.5 times dps on guns than a dread. Seriously are you kidding. I really wish I could ram my corps titan and moms in your hindquarters atm. At least that would be a pleasurable use and satify my urge to smite you! ______________________________
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:49:00 -
[27]
It makes no sence to me to tune th dps down. One might argue that allainces could bring 25 moms to dominate battlefields, but the next day a smart fc has asquad of stealthbombers declawing those moms, or some snipehacs taking out bombers.
Their dps has a counterpart, but what good are they if they do no more dps then a dread? -
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Sniperpirate
Minmatar Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:55:00 -
[28]
The MS was broken, first you change the name into something meaningless, I can bear with this, even though it is a cheat into creating another ship class.
Then you nerf the drones, which is the only damage output the ship has? First i thought 20 fighter bombers no supplementary drones. This is a joke but i could find some small reason to do this. But now 10 drones only, might as well use a carrier cos its cheaper and does the same job.
The titan doomsday wasn't overpowered to being with, only dumb pilots die to it. If your aligned you can warp out with no to minimal losses. The AOE was taken out to be replaced with Single Target, i dont like the move but its liveable just. Next you change the timer from 5 mins to 10 mins, I thought the whole point of dominion was non stop PVP not a lag fest which is what your creating, every time a titan fires off its super weapon.
---------------------
Memer Of The Xetic Alliance/Immensea Federation
The Good Ol Days ^^
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Elmo Pug ([email protected])
http://www.magic-night.net/waaa.jpg |
Nemisis666
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:02:00 -
[29]
Oh sweet, more idling for my Mothership pilot. It's not like I've been waiting for a year to find a justification to field the thing and die horribly in a blaze of glory.
Nemi.
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Kell Braugh
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:29:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kell Braugh on 11/11/2009 19:31:00 Price and performance is not a linear equation, especially in eve where people will spend 100000% (2mil vs 2BIL) more isk for 20% more performance. (Look at deadspace Boosters/Reps if need an example)
edit: Although I agree that supercarriers should pwn, using the price argument is fallacy - In essence, any combat related activity involving damage has been 'speed nerfed' to just take 6 times longer with a predetermined outcome coined balance by CCP. |
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CurlUpAndDie
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:35:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous Time to start shopping a new MMO.
Eve had a good run
My same feeling. I've been sticking around to see if Dominion is going to bring back life to this game..guess not... ___________________________
[center] Please resize sig to a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Tobruk
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:38:00 -
[32]
this is so, so stupid. why ccp? ----------------------------------------------
Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
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Bobbechk
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:48:00 -
[33]
horrible.....
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Thaeus
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:54:00 -
[34]
Yeah, worthless. If this isn't a bug... I'll go put my Beta app in for Star Trek online. Oh **** IT'S A TARP! |
Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:58:00 -
[35]
this has to be a joke......
the whole point in boosting moms was to make them worth their cost and now they're being nerfed again.
so basically against sub caps they're now equal to carrier against capitals they're slightly better than dreads
tbh if this doesn't change i got a nyx for sale.... at least i can use the ISK to cyno jam my station system for a few months.....
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Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:14:00 -
[36]
I'll take my post here, since this seems to be what's needed.
There is no respect in making a change like this. Bad enough it was decided that such glorious ships were down graded to a sub class level at the start, but now the decision to take us all from behind while we were smiling.
I've been an Aeon pilot for a long time. I've held onto the ship through tick and thin. For the past few years I've trained one character to use that ship to the best of it's abilities, just like so many others here posting. I know what they are capable of, and with this change you are reducing them to nothing all over again.
If it's an isk sink you were in need of CCP, then you just pulled the wool over a lot of peoples eyes here with this. Imagine how many Mothership's have been sold in the past few weeks since the original announcement was posted about them being "FIXED". Well, all those people just sank their isks into an area of the game which will never be used again as it stands.
Sincerely, Dri Kulsane
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Vuk Lau
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:28:00 -
[37]
I will just say two words - WTF?
Seriously guys stop focking nerfing supercaps. Removing DD - ok I can live with it, but nerfing initially crappy supercarriers, and not to mention castrating titans and then nerfing them to hell is utterly stupid.
So please stop doing that, or no one will fly them which means they will not die at all. Dont blame playerbase for not following CCP vision of only 5 titans in total in New Eden.
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Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:30:00 -
[38]
anyone else remember CCPs brilliant idea for "fixing" carriers where by they could only field 5 fighters unless assigned?
i guess that idea worked out so well they decided an even more severe "fix" for supercarriers was needed.
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JiMeiNi
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:35:00 -
[39]
Omg
CCP do something right for a change u stupid fekkin morons!!!!!
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Traderjohn
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:41:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Traderjohn on 11/11/2009 20:41:20 This is pointless. You set a role for a mothership / Super carrier. Then you destroy its role by only allowing 10 drones. Why do people train up carrier 5 then? Might aswell fly a normal carrier.
Pritty pointless role now
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:42:00 -
[41]
seriouspost if you're some random dude developer who's never flown a mothership you need to back away slowly and let someone who actually has a clue what he's doing handle this
ok peace out~
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Thaeus
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:42:00 -
[42]
Yeah as I've said not worth my time. I've had this Wyvern for almost 2 years now, through the worst of it (on my alt) waiting for a chance when it made sense to use it because it was actually a formidable weapon. Now it's nothing but an embarrassing waste of time and isk that will never get used other than to ferry a few BS's around. Oh **** IT'S A TARP! |
Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:46:00 -
[43]
I think constructive criticism is more valid than calling CCP and their families ******ed.
Having said that, I'm wondering if we could get CCP's rationality behind this change so that we could have a decent dialogue.
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Murkelost
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:49:00 -
[44]
I am not surprised of another nerf, however this seems way out of league.
CCP has done alot of nerfs in previous history which has not been to satisfying for the gameplay, and they don't seem to learn that nerfing is a poor way of trying to fix things.
Improve and balance should be the way
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MakkAnzy
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:52:00 -
[45]
You get us all excited about being able to use our motherships again. Then you sneak in the nerf on the test server a few weeks before the launch. I await the official response on this issue.
I just wanted CCP to know that the ship is yet again pointless to even deploy with the nerf in place. |
Thaeus
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:55:00 -
[46]
I agree with you. However, the nerfing went too far as it stands. Bad enough titans got ransacked (which I can live with tbh) but Moms? They were always crappy (specially the Wyvern) and rarely got fielded when there was any amount of risk involved... now we won't see them at all. Oh **** IT'S A TARP! |
Genevieve Mitsuda
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:00:00 -
[47]
+1 Supercarrier pilot who now firmly believes he flies an overpriced (by 15 times) carrier. |
Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:06:00 -
[48]
Your mom's overpriced... ya know what I'm sayin?
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Mundem Pashdale
FLYING SP3GH3TTI MONSTERZ
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:09:00 -
[49]
Oh dear lord...
I've not played for about six months beyond logging on for skills and to keep my invention business ticking over, but when I saw the 'supercarriers' I thought that it might be worth playing the game again; looked kinda fun and exciting, you know? As it stands my accounts (only two of them ) run out in December and ZOMG if this is true you can sodding forget the idea that I'll renew them
And no, I don't pay ISK for them
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:13:00 -
[50]
Originally by: The Mittani seriouspost if you're some random dude developer who's never flown a mothership you need to back away slowly and let someone who actually has a clue what he's doing handle this
ok peace out~
this has to be like a 1st of me to agree with a goon. but he is right
also just looked on the test server carrier can do the same amount of drones 10 carrier lvl 5 carrier can atlest fit 1 warfare link module carrier can triage mod ok euthanasia mode not two worried about that
the only thing a super carrier has now is it is immune to ew and projected eccm so for the 15b aprox they cost i can do more in a carrier then i can in the super carrier if i lose it i can get 14 more for the same price.
ccp please change this back as it is a mega nerf to the super carrier. 01101111 01100110 01100110 01100010 01100101 01100001 01110100 00100000 01100011 01110010 01100101 01100001 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 |
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Jerai Timelsin
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:15:00 -
[51]
Originally by: The Mittani seriouspost if you're some random dude developer who's never flown a mothership you need to back away slowly and let someone who actually has a clue what he's doing handle this
ok peace out~
I never, EVER thought I'd agree with you, but I do. This 'nerf' is tragic, and a real let down after all the excitment
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MacArvid
Gallente M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:21:00 -
[52]
Naa this is ok, i got my mom on a logged off alt for a year waiting for a patch that would make me use my ship. I was happy a month ago when i thought i could use my mom ...sry super carrier for x-mas. But it seems like i got ****ed up again.
pls ccp rethink and give me some love
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m3rb3aSt
Minmatar Advanced Component Research Enterprise GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:26:00 -
[53]
I dont own a supercarrier but I was planning on buying one
Now... not so much :(
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Qris
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:36:00 -
[54]
Somebody at CCP sat down and thought long and hard about this change.
CCP needs to fire that person.
Probably the same idiot that thought remote DDs were a valuable addition to the game.
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Seth Rock
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:41:00 -
[55]
I reply from ccp would be nice, having said that. If this is intended then you should REALLY think about this one ccp _________________________________________
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Drave McClay
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:45:00 -
[56]
cancelling my subscription the second this goes through
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Yunnan Gold
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:54:00 -
[57]
Congrats to ccp if they just pulled the old bait and switch o/\o
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 21:59:00 -
[58]
If there's any truth in this, I can only state that I'm very disappointed in CCP. BattleDB.com moderator
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Gorfob
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:08:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Gorfob on 11/11/2009 22:09:01 Ahahaha.
Good work CCP.
*throws mothership pilots a bone*
*bone is laced with poison*
*is CCP*
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jm24
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:10:00 -
[60]
Thanks for making my decision whether or not to buy a mothership easy
Let them dock in player owned stations only, give them a damage bonus to the fighters to prevent drone swarm lag.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:15:00 -
[61]
waiting to see this confirmed as intentional and not a bug or a slip
(then if its intentional I'm going postal woooot)
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Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:18:00 -
[62]
You found a way to make what is shaping up to be a horrendous expansion even worse. Good job. Beefing up Motherships was one of the few things you had gotten right in this expansion so far and it would be a shame if you have decided to nerf them instead. -----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No.
-DB Preacher |
Salam Farooj
INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION 2009
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:18:00 -
[63]
CCP, Hellllooooo, Anyone there? This is a pretty substantial change, we going to get any kind of comment?
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mineswallower
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:28:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Salam Farooj CCP, Hellllooooo, Anyone there? This is a pretty substantial change, we going to get any kind of comment?
I think they are all either: 1) Too drunk down the local bar 2) All off sick with food poisining from the manky shark meat dish 3) Too embarrased to show their face on a forum that they ask for feedback on.
Take your pick. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:32:00 -
[65]
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Christos Hendez
Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 22:33:00 -
[66]
Originally by: seliana tanis
Originally by: Manfred Sideous Time to start shopping a new MMO.
Eve had a good run
Perpetum online looks pretty good manny.
Worse graphics than Eve pre-trinity... plz...
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CynoNet Two
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:35:00 -
[67]
This thread is now about how every titan has also had its damage 'bonus' halved to 100% per level, giving them dps comparable to a dreadnought. The Avatar lost its cap use bonus too, just in case any amarr titan pilots out there were enjoying using their own gang bonus too much.
Of course none of the outstanding issues with shield gang bonuses, Levi CPU or terrible Ragnarok fleet bonus.
According to my calendar April 1st is still several months away. I'm confused.
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SXYGeeK
Gallente do you Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:37:00 -
[68]
The change has some merrits, It will reduce the number of fighters on the field which will have an effect on lag (need for speed) It will focus the supercarrier on the role of anti-cap with its Fighter Bombers
However, to compensate for the reduced numbers I think a bonus to the fighter bomber damage output per carrier skill level is in order. perhaps even to fighters as well (though that could make them over powered when assigned)
that beeing said, I still hate it :( -We So SeXy |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:43:00 -
[69]
Signatures for you folks.
Credits go to the original designer (Atrisha), who was kind enough to update the sigs for '09. --
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Serena Ku
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 22:44:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Drave McClay cancelling my subscription the second this goes through
CCP say bye bye to your income
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Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: SXYGeeK The change has some merrits, It will reduce the number of fighters on the field which will have an effect on lag (need for speed) It will focus the supercarrier on the role of anti-cap with its Fighter Bombers
However, to compensate for the reduced numbers I think a bonus to the fighter bomber damage output per carrier skill level is in order. perhaps even to fighters as well (though that could make them over powered when assigned)
that being said, I still hate it :(
I see no rational explanation as to why this has been changed on the test forums. There's no reason to consider merit's regarding something which to our currently knowledge NERF's what is. None of what you've said gives reason to half the damage of these already extremely limited ships offensively.
So have at it CCP, give us a reason why you have change these ships on the test server. Or do you want to wait until another 50/100/1000 players ask you the same question???
Short of hearing or is there some other issues preventing you from posting something constructive here?
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Susy Assulu
Caldari Atomic Mexicans
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:48:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Susy Assulu on 11/11/2009 22:56:14 Edited by: Susy Assulu on 11/11/2009 22:55:21 Looks like the dps of super caps took quite a hit :| Not sure why :(
Originally by: CynoNet Two This thread is now about how every titan has also had its damage 'bonus' halved to 100% per level, giving them dps comparable to a dreadnought. The Avatar lost its cap use bonus too, just in case any amarr titan pilots out there were enjoying using their own gang bonus too much.
Sauce:
Quote: Amarr Titan Skill Bonuses: 100% bonus to Capital Energy Turret damage per level 7.5% bonus to gang members' capacitor recharge rate per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit Judgement Super Weapon Can fit Jump Portal Generator Can fit Clone Vat Bay Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
FAIL.
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Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Hellstrome Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:51:00 -
[73]
You guys is stupid. I try new goon artistic singosng write:
*make good big change* *prenerf pre release* *troll player to laugh much at forum whine* (*also eat much puke making shark*) *is CCP*
Did I make poem rite?
(I felt this thread needed some hydra reloaded inspired troll)
But anyhow, what Ive said is pretty true - CCP suggests awesome changes (projectiles, sov, titan, SC, etc), then pre nerfs them 4 weeks before the deadline. Pretty good tactics - stops people from shouting OP, gives devs some whinage to laugh at, and is generally typical of how CCP likes to run its game: get everyone freaking excited, and then **** them over for another 2 years.
\O/ CCP, I SALUTE YOU!
(P.S, I know they'll fix it in 2-3 days due to all the people whining, but being on a thread where goons cries on a AAA shoulder is just too epic. Plus I like to **** poast - sue me.. ***gots.) =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 22:51:00 -
[74]
Originally by: SXYGeeK The change has some merrits, It will reduce the number of fighters on the field which will have an effect on lag (need for speed) It will focus the supercarrier on the role of anti-cap with its Fighter Bombers
Nerfing drone deployment on motherships will do very little to reduce lag because of the relatively low numbers (are we seriously expecting to see dozens and dozens of motherships on grid at once?), and hanging game balance for the sake of the servers is of limited value since the servers are much more stable than they were 2 years ago (the last time a fighter nerf was proposed).
If this genuinely is a lag issue then its still a very strange decision.
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Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:55:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch I just don't get it. Huge, mean looking, expensive to build .. a one time decision for a pilot to get into them and be stuck there unable to change ship. So why nerf them this badly? Their days of virtual invincibility is gone .. no one is going to conquer a quarter of null sec with four of them ever again no matter what you do. It looked for a few weeks like you had given them a role in the game again .. and now you back out? This change is ridiculous and uncalled for. Please reverse it.
Actaly agree with you here!
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:55:00 -
[76]
Can someone confirm that Fighter-Bomber attributes are the same?
If this change also doubles the DPS of FBs, then maybe. Still, I'd much rather have 20 FBs than 10 FBx2s. --
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mineswallower
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:56:00 -
[77]
Edited by: mineswallower on 11/11/2009 22:56:14
Originally by: Mashashige ...but being on a thread where goons cries on a AAA shoulder is just too epic...
Must be a first for everything, I loled too.
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SXYGeeK
Gallente do you Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:56:00 -
[78]
I'm just playing devil's advocate as we have no other response here... It realy don't please me either. -We So SeXy |
Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:00:00 -
[79]
Originally by: SXYGeeK I'm just playing devil's advocate as we have no other response here... It realy don't please me either.
I understood what you were hoping to do. Perhaps after CCP grow a pair and respond, we can have a constructive discussion and voice both sides
Should there be like a hundred GOONS already after posting here, seeing as we've already had a few??? Come on...do your FOFOFOF thing and get everyone else who cares about these issues to step up and post.
Never thought I'd hear myself click that on a keyboard
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Zach Morter
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:00:00 -
[80]
Please do not implement this nerf its just making the mothership basically useless again. I mean you paying 16+ bil for something that does just as much DPS as a dread now but just with extra HP.
Nice 1 CCP you did it again.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:05:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Mashashige You guys is stupid. I try new goon artistic singosng write:
*make good big change* *prenerf pre release* *troll player to laugh much at forum whine* (*also eat much puke making shark*) *is CCP*
Did I make poem rite?
(I felt this thread needed some hydra reloaded inspired troll)
But anyhow, what Ive said is pretty true - CCP suggests awesome changes (projectiles, sov, titan, SC, etc), then pre nerfs them 4 weeks before the deadline. Pretty good tactics - stops people from shouting OP, gives devs some whinage to laugh at, and is generally typical of how CCP likes to run its game: get everyone freaking excited, and then **** them over for another 2 years.
\O/ CCP, I SALUTE YOU!
(P.S, I know they'll fix it in 2-3 days due to all the people whining, but being on a thread where goons cries on a AAA shoulder is just too epic. Plus I like to **** poast - sue me.. ***gots.)
If there was some way to hurt CCP in game AAA & Goons would be blue atm forming some **** up to feck CCP up! ______________________________
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:05:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Dri Kulsane
Originally by: SXYGeeK I'm just playing devil's advocate as we have no other response here... It realy don't please me either.
I understood what you were hoping to do. Perhaps after CCP grow a pair and respond, we can have a constructive discussion and voice both sides
Should there be like a hundred GOONS already after posting here, seeing as we've already had a few??? Come on...do your FOFOFOF thing and get everyone else who cares about these issues to step up and post.
Never thought I'd hear myself click that on a keyboard
i mentioned this to capswarm but most of them think supercaps are dumb and hate the old guard players in supercaps
the most irksome thing about this **** is that all of these are unannounced stealth nerfs. where's the competent capital dev team that had things sewn up around fanfest? who are these people, and what are they doing to break all the thus-far good and settled changes?
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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CynoNet Two
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:05:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Can someone confirm that Fighter-Bomber attributes are the same?
If this change also doubles the DPS of FBs, then maybe. Still, I'd much rather have 20 FBs than 10 FBx2s.
Max skilled bombers seem to be 4,800dps right now. Here is my math in case I made any mistakes:
3600 damage / 15 sec RoF = 240dps per bomber 10 x bomber = 2,400 dps Fighter Bombers level V = 100% bonus = 4,800dps.
That can go up somewhat with the Nyx and DCU, but honestly that is abymsal for a supercap.
Originally by: SXYGeeK The change has some merrits, It will reduce the number of fighters on the field which will have an effect on lag (need for speed) It will focus the supercarrier on the role of anti-cap with its Fighter Bombers
Except that no one enables drone models or icons during large fleet battles, and if they do its just client-side lag so it's their problem.
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Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:08:00 -
[84]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Dri Kulsane
Originally by: SXYGeeK I'm just playing devil's advocate as we have no other response here... It realy don't please me either.
I understood what you were hoping to do. Perhaps after CCP grow a pair and respond, we can have a constructive discussion and voice both sides
Should there be like a hundred GOONS already after posting here, seeing as we've already had a few??? Come on...do your FOFOFOF thing and get everyone else who cares about these issues to step up and post.
Never thought I'd hear myself click that on a keyboard
i mentioned this to capswarm but most of them think supercaps are dumb and hate the old guard players in supercaps
the most irksome thing about this **** is that all of these are unannounced stealth nerfs. where's the competent capital dev team that had things sewn up around fanfest? who are these people, and what are they doing to break all the thus-far good and settled changes?
Thanks for spreading the word regarding this thread anyway mate!
-Dri
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Droewa
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:09:00 -
[85]
CCP, please defend your position and give good reason for the changes. With the amount of feed back here it seems needed. I for one see no good reason for the changes, please do tell. Sig removed, inappropriate content. Signature graphics may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to EVE Online. All content must be in good taste ~Saint |
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 23:10:00 -
[86]
Originally by: CynoNet Two
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Can someone confirm that Fighter-Bomber attributes are the same?
If this change also doubles the DPS of FBs, then maybe. Still, I'd much rather have 20 FBs than 10 FBx2s.
Max skilled bombers seem to be 4,800dps right now. Here is my math in case I made any mistakes:
3600 damage / 15 sec RoF = 240dps per bomber 10 x bomber = 2,400 dps Fighter Bombers level V = 100% bonus = 4,800dps.
That can go up somewhat with the Nyx and DCU, but honestly that is abymsal for a supercap.
Originally by: SXYGeeK The change has some merrits, It will reduce the number of fighters on the field which will have an effect on lag (need for speed) It will focus the supercarrier on the role of anti-cap with its Fighter Bombers
Except that no one enables drone models or icons during large fleet battles, and if they do its just client-side lag so it's their problem.
Considering a Phoenix and Nag does 8k DPS yeah its horribad.
CCP let us reprocess our supers and build some dreads about it. ______________________________
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:11:00 -
[87]
I don't understand this nerfing at all. Even before this change super carriers weren't all that. This makes the ship even more worthless.
So much for making super carriers something people want to fly and sacrifice a character for.
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Teck7
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:12:00 -
[88]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Dri Kulsane
Originally by: SXYGeeK I'm just playing devil's advocate as we have no other response here... It realy don't please me either.
I understood what you were hoping to do. Perhaps after CCP grow a pair and respond, we can have a constructive discussion and voice both sides
Should there be like a hundred GOONS already after posting here, seeing as we've already had a few??? Come on...do your FOFOFOF thing and get everyone else who cares about these issues to step up and post.
Never thought I'd hear myself click that on a keyboard
i mentioned this to capswarm but most of them think supercaps are dumb and hate the old guard players in supercaps
the most irksome thing about this **** is that all of these are unannounced stealth nerfs. where's the competent capital dev team that had things sewn up around fanfest? who are these people, and what are they doing to break all the thus-far good and settled changes?
Worse still is this is more lazy CCP programming at its finest, issue with fighter bombers generating lag? no time to code a fix? nerf fighter deployment!
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:13:00 -
[89]
Originally by: CynoNet Two Edited by: CynoNet Two on 11/11/2009 23:08:27 Max skilled bombers seem to be 4,800dps right now. Here is my math in case I made any mistakes:
3600 damage / 15 sec RoF = 240dps per bomber 10 x bomber = 2,400 dps Fighter Bombers level V = 100% bonus = 4,800dps.
Yup, that about halves the DPS of a mothership compared to what the original changes were supposed to be.
This means that a mothership will have about the same DPS as a dread with long-range guns, still with the disadvantages that drones have (travel time, vulnerability to smartbombs, limited "ammunition" etc). Compared to a dread with the new short-range guns? No contest. The dread will win easily.
Also, this means that a mothership will no longer be able to break the tank (except just barely in some cases) of any decently tanked dreadnought fitted with a single local rep.
So much for it being the ultimate anti-capital weapon.
Nope. Not cool. Fix this before it goes live.
--
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:20:00 -
[90]
I didn't check this on Sisi. Is this for real and not just a massive troll? If troll, epic job.
If real: Jesus Christ, what in your right mind made you think this would be a wise decision?
This would be so horrendously ****ed up that I can't even think of a sentence to describe it properly. You'd have basically "reinvented" a shipclass that was on the fringe of uselessness since its birth only to make a hundred percent sure, that it stays that way while being on a seemingly balanced path before.
I can't wrap my head around this. Just in awe in front of "THE STUPID", if true.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:26:00 -
[91]
CCP, we're waiting for a clear answer. I hope this is clear how many people will most likely unsub several accounts and/or sell off and quit eve entirely.
This is not a laughing matter CCP, we need answers.
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Crimsonjade
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:29:00 -
[92]
Dear CCP:
WTF!
your's cordially
Crimsonjade
ps:>.< just about to build a SC and this.
FREE MONGO PECK CCP |
Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 23:34:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 11/11/2009 23:35:21
So Supercarriers:
Can't dock Can't insure, and possibly won't receive any base insurance upon destruction Can't deploy more fighters than a carrier Can't triage like a regular carrier Can't break a dread tank with 10-15 fighter bombers Cost 15 billion + fittings + fighters Can't tank on their own and require a fleet of triage carriers to be used, but yet -> Don't offer incentive's to group play by giving gang bonuses or special abilities like portaling
Maybe I'm missing what they are "super" at, other than frustrating to any pilot that wants to fly them.
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Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Hellstrome Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 23:34:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Serena Ku CCP, we're waiting for a clear answer. I hope this is clear how many people will most likely unsub several accounts and/or sell off and quit eve entirely.
This is not a laughing matter CCP, we need answers.
Get that stick out of your ass. Its ****ing around 23:30 in iceland and over 18:30 atlanta office time - I doubt anybody is even checking the forums other than the shanghai office, and they have to deal with all the rants and whines from the farmers that got banned and now cant feed their 20 kids family.
Anyhow, if all the SC players leave the game it will just make it a better place - too many forum whining bitter old vets and too little people with actual input. Although this change is horrendessly stupid and CCP general seems to be a bunch of orangotangs making random lines of code on a type writer, atleast I get to laugh at all those tears. LET THEM STREAM, OH PLEASE DO. CRY HARDER. HARRRRDDDERRRR WEEEEPPP HHHAAARRRDDDERRRR OHHH YEEAAAHHH YYYOUUR MYYY DIIIRRTTTYYY LIITTTLEE CRRRRYYBBBABBYYYY.
OMG I think I better change to another pair of underwear...
=======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 23:44:00 -
[95]
Although im still confident that this is either a mistake, or part of a plan to reduce serverside lag during large fleet fights, i will sell my super carrier and character and close the account, if they dont fix this.
Its the only reason i have that account.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:50:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n Although im still confident that this is either a mistake, or part of a plan to reduce serverside lag during large fleet fights, i will sell my super carrier and character and close the account, if they dont fix this.
Its the only reason i have that account.
Except that MOM's wont be worth crap neither will super cap charecters
______________________________
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:51:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Mashashige
Originally by: Serena Ku CCP, we're waiting for a clear answer. I hope this is clear how many people will most likely unsub several accounts and/or sell off and quit eve entirely.
This is not a laughing matter CCP, we need answers.
Get that stick out of your ass. Its ****ing around 23:30 in iceland and over 18:30 atlanta office time - I doubt anybody is even checking the forums other than the shanghai office, and they have to deal with all the rants and whines from the farmers that got banned and now cant feed their 20 kids family.
Anyhow, if all the SC players leave the game it will just make it a better place - too many forum whining bitter old vets and too little people with actual input. Although this change is horrendessly stupid and CCP general seems to be a bunch of orangotangs making random lines of code on a type writer, atleast I get to laugh at all those tears. LET THEM STREAM, OH PLEASE DO. CRY HARDER. HARRRRDDDERRRR WEEEEPPP HHHAAARRRDDDERRRR OHHH YEEAAAHHH YYYOUUR MYYY DIIIRRTTTYYY LIITTTLEE CRRRRYYBBBABBYYYY.
OMG I think I better change to another pair of underwear...
GTFO of the thread you iblis flying nub
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Not1k
Amarr Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:54:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Soleil Fournier Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 11/11/2009 23:35:21
So Supercarriers:
Can't dock Can't insure, and possibly won't receive any base insurance upon destruction Can't deploy more fighters than a carrier Can't triage like a regular carrier Can't break a dread tank with 10-15 fighter bombers Cost 15 billion + fittings + fighters Can't tank on their own and require a fleet of triage carriers to be used, but yet -> Don't offer incentive's to group play by giving gang bonuses or special abilities like portaling
Maybe I'm missing what they are "super" at, other than frustrating to any pilot that wants to fly them.
Looks like ill be closing my alt account training for aeon... Better spend those 20b on smth like faction ships
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.11.11 23:55:00 -
[99]
Heh you guys are such baww. They obviously didnt mean to do this. Even if they did... with the intentions of making there less drones. Thusly the dronebay for motherships becomes much more full of spares.
What we might get...
20% drone dmg/hp per level
Carrier lvl 5 would mean 10 drones. or 10 fighters. Equivalent to the same 20 fighters. Yet uber tanks on the fighters. Which would be a good boost. Currently fighters and fighterbombers suffer from being easily killed at pretty expensive costs.
Furthermore. Do you seriously want 20 citadel explosions going off constantly. My retinas are burning enough. 10 citadel explosions going off would be 50% less retina burn. Sure sure 99% of people have them turned off anyway. Meh.
Moreover; Factor in Drone Control units. Carriers fit them. You get 1 extra drone. With this change. Drone control units practically mean 2 extra drones for motherships.
It actually somewhat boosts the usage of drone control units on motherships. Which currently I hope is non-existent but extremely sad if someone actually is using them on their mothership.
Also. Any ship bonuses dont translate over for assigned fighters. So assigning them. You lose the hp and damage from those fighters. You better get those motherships on the frontline. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Fergus Blakra
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:02:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Drave McClay cancelling my subscription the second this goes through
Guess I will take a second look at WOW if this will be enacted
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:02:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 12/11/2009 00:03:23 Considering they changed the bonus, the item description, and the supercarrier bandwidth I highly doubt it is a bug.
Curious about the spin that will be put on this one.
And my alt definitely won't continue skilling for a supercarrier.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:03:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Jason Edwards Heh you guys are such baww. They obviously didnt mean to do this. Even if they did... with the intentions of making there less drones. Thusly the dronebay for motherships becomes much more full of spares.
What we might get...
20% drone dmg/hp per level
Carrier lvl 5 would mean 10 drones. or 10 fighters. Equivalent to the same 20 fighters. Yet uber tanks on the fighters. Which would be a good boost. Currently fighters and fighterbombers suffer from being easily killed at pretty expensive costs.
Furthermore. Do you seriously want 20 citadel explosions going off constantly. My retinas are burning enough. 10 citadel explosions going off would be 50% less retina burn. Sure sure 99% of people have them turned off anyway. Meh.
Moreover; Factor in Drone Control units. Carriers fit them. You get 1 extra drone. With this change. Drone control units practically mean 2 extra drones for motherships.
It actually somewhat boosts the usage of drone control units on motherships. Which currently I hope is non-existent but extremely sad if someone actually is using them on their mothership.
Also. Any ship bonuses dont translate over for assigned fighters. So assigning them. You lose the hp and damage from those fighters. You better get those motherships on the frontline.
Well obviously this is what i expect, and it will be great this way. But tbh, i dont really trust CCP that much..
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c0rn1
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:03:00 -
[103]
Edited by: c0rn1 on 12/11/2009 00:03:19 Since you're waving around with your nerfing stick already, I got some further suggestions:
=> Move all lvl 4 missions into 0.0 => LvL 3 to lowsec => capital ships can only be build in 0.0 => capital ship components only in lowsec => invention will only be possible in 0.0 => t2 production is only allowed in lowsec => remove all secondary abilities of all ships immediately => half the range of all recon ships => Remove the carriers ability to launch an additional fighter per level => Set Triage mode to 30 minutes => Remove one weapon highslot of all dreadnoughts => Remove all Supercarriers and titans from the game and payout the platinum insurance => Compensate for all months a mothership/titan account was being paid seperately => more to come ...
cheers
c0rn1
P.S.: You start to give me reasons to drop this game and even being able to never touch it again since you start to think we are flies and being addicted to what is going to become a pile of crap. x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ... |
TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:03:00 -
[104]
LOUD NOISES
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glassmanipulator
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:05:00 -
[105]
Sometimes I really hate you ccp.
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Zephyrante
Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:08:00 -
[106]
I see a clear patern here: CCP: " We gona boost moms, calling them supercarriers" super means better than a carrier ok, more ehp ok, incresing base jump ok, fighterbombers to make them ussefull agains Caps, ok
You made the guys having a mom happy, you made the guys wanting a mom build one or buy one.
Now you cut the drones to half, waaaay to go, cutting the dps in half, ill stick with my non-super-carrier then.
PS: Hope this is just a bug/mistake/test feature.
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Gimora
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:15:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Zephyrante I see a clear patern here: CCP: " We gona boost moms, calling them supercarriers" super means better than a carrier ok, more ehp ok, incresing base jump ok, fighterbombers to make them ussefull agains Caps, ok
You made the guys having a mom happy, you made the guys wanting a mom build one or buy one.
Now you cut the drones to half, waaaay to go, cutting the dps in half, ill stick with my non-super-carrier then.
PS: Hope this is just a bug/mistake/test feature.
]And for once i actaly saw ccp do somthing that createt NO COMPLAINTS!
Until you didd this!
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Skags
Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:36:00 -
[108]
I never post in these forums are hardly read but this is an epic FUBAR. I have been training my but off and building parts and trying to get my NYX finished and then my CEO sais hey skags read this and pull the box of tissues out. Why would you guys do this to so many players who have been saving and grinding for isk and skills and get them all excited then like a fat kid at a candy store kick them out. Not sure what you guys were smoking when you came up with this goofy idea but man can you guys stop bogarting and send me some. Anyways thanks for the great Christmas gift besides being stressed and upset about or economy and upcoming medical bill changes oh and everything else that is crashing around us. TY for destroying my most enjoyed escape from reality.
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Nyx Spire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:49:00 -
[109]
WTB a Nyx ;) fully fitted or not... not willing to pay the ridiculous 13+ bill price tag for this heap of ****. as i am after it for nostalgic reasons if you feel like selling your Nyx send me a mail in game we will chat... i am obviously not going to offer you 1x trint for it ether / but the price is debatable if your looking to reprocess your Nyx in the up and coming months. not looking for a nyx for resale value. could also use the alt. i am trinity born, i never knew what a nyx was. nyx has always been a favourite female toon name in rp. eventually when i reach the end game on nyx and or quit EVE id love to be able to logoffski in a nyx as her eternal coffin.
message me if your serious about getting rid of this **** and gaining back even a remote slither reimbursement
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Alex Under
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:56:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous Time to start shopping a new MMO.
Eve had a good run
Yup, I think that's what I'll be doing for the next few weeks. I like how CCP just tried to sneak this change without telling anyone prior to the changes, in the hopes that no one will notice them. Typical CCP
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Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.12 01:29:00 -
[111]
WTS Nyx,
Can be reprocessed into 10 carriers or used to build a titan.
Seriously, whats the point of a mothership if you cant use the 15-25 drones.
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Zitha
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Posted - 2009.11.12 01:45:00 -
[112]
What a pile of *hitty changes going on in sisi atm with supercapitals, seriously wtf?
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Gorbon
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 01:45:00 -
[113]
:( I was looking forward to motherships having a useful role.
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Cefte
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 01:57:00 -
[114]
So, instead of supercarriers, can we start calling them subcaps?
At least now we won't have to worry about DBRB telling all subcaps to warp to the gate.
(because no-one will be flying them seriously what the **** CCP)
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 01:58:00 -
[115]
Edited by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf on 12/11/2009 01:58:10 WELP
LAME |
Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.12 02:03:00 -
[116]
CCP... please HTFU and don't put these silly nerfs in TQ.
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Cain m
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.12 02:10:00 -
[117]
If you ever see a mothership firing FBs, you should already have had effects off TBH. In any case, moms do not need a nerf. If you don't like being instapopped by a mom in your CN fit CNR, htfu tfb.
Originally by: YouDoNotOwnSalvage You do not in any way shape or form own salvage.
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Ariel Dawn
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 02:14:00 -
[118]
Good riddance to people saying that they're quitting EVE because of something on the TEST server that hasn't had any word from Devs regarding the changes. Kneejerk reactions are amazing.
Perhaps they're trying to address the issue that 20+ fighter bombers cause ridiculous lag, and they're TESTING it on the TEST server.
What if its a buff that they haven't fully implemented yet? 10 fighters with the damage/ehp of 20?
But no, THE SKY IS FALLING.
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Stabbington III
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Posted - 2009.11.12 02:24:00 -
[119]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Dri Kulsane
Originally by: SXYGeeK I'm just playing devil's advocate as we have no other response here... It realy don't please me either.
I understood what you were hoping to do. Perhaps after CCP grow a pair and respond, we can have a constructive discussion and voice both sides
Should there be like a hundred GOONS already after posting here, seeing as we've already had a few??? Come on...do your FOFOFOF thing and get everyone else who cares about these issues to step up and post.
Never thought I'd hear myself click that on a keyboard
i mentioned this to capswarm but most of them think supercaps are dumb and hate the old guard players in supercaps
the most irksome thing about this **** is that all of these are unannounced stealth nerfs. where's the competent capital dev team that had things sewn up around fanfest? who are these people, and what are they doing to break all the thus-far good and settled changes?
I thought motherships/supercarriers were stupid until they announced the intention to make them decent and then released them to the test server in a useful form.
A 4000 dps mothership is not useful in the least, especially with stealth bombers, zealots, pulse apocs, smartbombs, really anything being able to go to town on their dps. This is what I get for being excited about a ship...
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Sea Gate
Caldari Sea Gate Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.12 02:29:00 -
[120]
Hopefully it doesn't stay
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Lowbridge
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 03:31:00 -
[121]
come on CCP any comment on this???
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dracice
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 04:07:00 -
[122]
not that I do not share your concerns guys, even as a non ms pilot I still like to see them in action.
however, this is a test server, and nothing is final until dominion is released, they are reworkin things everyday and numbers.
I am CONFIDENT, these will not be the final numbers for the super carriers, no matter what comes, it will not be left useless like this.
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Xynosura
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 04:48:00 -
[123]
Originally by: dracice not that I do not share your concerns guys, even as a non ms pilot I still like to see them in action.
however, this is a test server, and nothing is final until dominion is released, they are reworkin things everyday and numbers.
I am CONFIDENT, these will not be the final numbers for the super carriers, no matter what comes, it will not be left useless like this.
Well, to be fair the way CCP neglected the Titans for several years concerns us about the current proposed experimental changes. If they went into effect, it just may well be another few years for it to be sorted once again.
For this reason many of us are rightfully concerned and would not like to see our investments into this war machine lay to waste. |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 04:50:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 12/11/2009 04:51:07
Originally by: Agmar Edited by: Agmar on 11/11/2009 20:47:22 I think constructive criticism is more valid than calling CCP and their families ******ed.
Having said that, I'm wondering if we could get CCP's rationality behind this change so that we could have a decent dialogue.
Edit- I'd have to assume that they'd only do this to reduce server load, and they'll be adding in a massive damage bonus per level or a role bonus. Similar to when they nerfed NPC RoF and increased volley damage... right? RIGHT?!?
Jesus, at least one sane, non-whiny and level-headed reply ^^ You, dear sir, are my hero for today.
Yes I agree, some explanation would be nice.
Personally I don't think a supercarrier should deal double or 2.5 times the damage of a dread. 10k+ dps is uncalled-for, but it should at least be 50% more than a dread.
-edit- Why don't people reply to the supercarrier-feedback thread?
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
kossaw
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 04:52:00 -
[125]
Edited by: kossaw on 12/11/2009 04:53:35 It's really simple Abathur...
Just tell us it was a typo and we can all relax
because frankly this change sux
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Sea Gate
Caldari Sea Gate Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.12 05:12:00 -
[126]
Originally by: kossaw Edited by: kossaw on 12/11/2009 04:53:35 It's really simple Abathur...
Just tell us it was a typo and we can all relax
because frankly this change sux
Can't be a typo, its in the description and they shrunk the drone bay.
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Chris Rittenhouse
Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 06:05:00 -
[127]
What the hell were you thinking? I wanted to fly a supercarrier and had the means to and skills to. If this change is real, honestly, **** that and **** you ccp. Way to ruin something almost worth flying.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 06:31:00 -
[128]
Ummm What happened to MOtherships... I mean Super carriers Being Useful or even Super, not they are just a tough skinned carrier.... Whats the Point? Huge Isk sink.... No Benefits?
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Raeyn
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 06:54:00 -
[129]
Nice one CCP. You are going to cost me more isk in cosmoline to keep my Hel from rusting away from no use.
I really hope this is an error in the database and you are working to fix it.
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 07:22:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 12/11/2009 04:59:35 Personally I don't think a supercarrier should deal double or 2.5 times the damage of a dread. 10k+ dps is uncalled-for, but it should at least be 50% more than a dread.
Dread DPS (short range guns): ~8000 Mothership DPS: 9600 (Nyx, 12000)
This is 20% (non-Nyx) to 50% (Nyx) more DPS than a dread.
However, if these new changes go in effect, the result will be:
Mothership DPS: 4800 (Nyx, 6000)
The motherships will now do 40% LESS DPS than a dread, with the Nyx lucking out at only doing 25% less DPS.
Unlike dreads, motherships have a primary weapon system that can be easily destroyed (smartbombs, shooting the darn FBs etc). Their weapon system has limited range (in effect, since FBs can't be delegated, short range fighting is the only viable option for any fight where DPS needs to be maximized). Their weapon system is not instant-damage (sharing that characteristic with Phoenixes).
Like dreads, motherships have a single purpose. Dreads are high-DPS anti-structure ships, with a secondary role of shooting capital ships. They are inherently unable to kill anything smaller with any degree of success. Motherships on the other hand are pure anti-capital ships. They have the wrong weapon system to shoot structures effectively (Fighters and FBs cannot get close enough to a POS to shoot it, not sure about TCU and other structures though) and against subcapitals, their performance drops hideously - they may be able to kill battleships at short range fairly easily, but this can be countered easily by rotating snipe spots and/or simply shooting the FBs.
Unlike carriers, motherships are NOT designed to be versatile support ships. Let's face it, a carrier has abysmal DPS (the same DPS as a close-range BS) but is able to make up for it with their RRing capabilities, triage function etc. Yes, a mothership can use RR as well, but is far less suited for the task, by not being able to perform it any better than a normal carrier, for ten times the cost.
Bottom line here, CCP. Motherships in the presented form were fine. They were underutilized before, the change was going to bring them back to the frontlines. With this nerf, there's ONCE AGAIN no reason to bring out a mothership. They do less DPS than a dread (which is far more expendable, easier to build, easier to replace, easier to get out of) and are not much better than a standard carrier.
And no, I will not buy into the "10 drones with twice the DPS is better" argument. I've trained carrier 5 for a reason. I want my full 20 FBs, because it's frakking awesome! --
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Thaeus
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.12 07:34:00 -
[131]
You know I can even live with a nerf to how many FIGHTER BOMBERS can be deployed as long as the 20 NORMAL figthers can still be deployed. If you want a Supercarrier to be ANTI CAP give it the damn boost it needs to be ANTI-CAP. 10 fighters doesn't do squat to even a carrier and 10 40% less damage bombers don't do crap either. Oh **** IT'S A TARP! |
Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 07:41:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Chris Rittenhouse What the hell were you thinking? I wanted to fly a supercarrier and had the means to and skills to. If this change is real, honestly, **** that and **** you ccp. Way to ruin something almost worth flying.
aaaahahaha keep crying you baby
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FlashSpawn
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 07:44:00 -
[133]
CCP To Whom it may concern:
I have had a NYX BPO sitting in a station for the past 1.5 years doing nothing really, until you told us of the great new changes to MOM's, 2 or so months ago.
I am not much of an industrialist and have built some carriers when they first came out but that is about it. So I think to myself hey lets build some NYX's and sell them as people are now wanting them big time.
So 2 months ago I dig in and spend:
15B ISK on component BPO's 3B ISK on a POS and capital arrays 3B ISK on 4 freighters for my alts to carry the stuff. 24B ISK on 2 lots of minerals for the Nyx's as you need to be building the next comps while the first is in build. 20B ISK Nyx BPO I already own.
That is a investment of 65B ISK of my own ISK, my ISK not anyone else's MINE!
With this change EVE will go back to how it was before, no one will fly them, so no one will buy them.
I have 3 people in my queue, ready to buy them, but now I am just waiting for them to turn around and say they don't want them now.
What am I to do with 65B ISK investment and possibly 3 Nyx's in my possession?? You made statements that changed things in EVE and now you renege on them!
Quite frankly I am getting a little tired of this sort of stupid half baked ideas that you thrust upon us at times.
I have 9 accounts with you CCP and 24 individual chars and have been playing this game for over 4 years, how about treating us players with the respect that we deserve? At the end of the day we are the ones helping you to make your product.
CCP please have a talk to some people in your company that do play in 0.0 with caps and the like and see what they think of this idea? Your guys have made mistakes before and you have corrected them as well (Carrier/Fighter nerf), so please do the same again here.
Thanks
FlashSpawn
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Sworn Absent
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 08:32:00 -
[134]
Originally by: FlashSpawn CCP To Whom it may concern:
I have had a NYX BPO sitting in a station for the past 1.5 years doing nothing really, until you told us of the great new changes to MOM's, 2 or so months ago.
I am not much of an industrialist and have built some carriers when they first came out but that is about it. So I think to myself hey lets build some NYX's and sell them as people are now wanting them big time.
So 2 months ago I dig in and spend:
15B ISK on component BPO's 3B ISK on a POS and capital arrays 3B ISK on 4 freighters for my alts to carry the stuff. 24B ISK on 2 lots of minerals for the Nyx's as you need to be building the next comps while the first is in build. 20B ISK Nyx BPO I already own.
That is a investment of 65B ISK of my own ISK, my ISK not anyone else's MINE!
With this change EVE will go back to how it was before, no one will fly them, so no one will buy them.
I have 3 people in my queue, ready to buy them, but now I am just waiting for them to turn around and say they don't want them now.
What am I to do with 65B ISK investment and possibly 3 Nyx's in my possession?? You made statements that changed things in EVE and now you renege on them!
Quite frankly I am getting a little tired of this sort of stupid half baked ideas that you thrust upon us at times.
I have 9 accounts with you CCP and 24 individual chars and have been playing this game for over 4 years, how about treating us players with the respect that we deserve? At the end of the day we are the ones helping you to make your product.
CCP please have a talk to some people in your company that do play in 0.0 with caps and the like and see what they think of this idea? Your guys have made mistakes before and you have corrected them as well (Carrier/Fighter nerf), so please do the same again here.
Thanks
FlashSpawn
So what you're saying is that you invested on speculation rather than hard facts, and it didn't work out for you? Sounds like your own stupidity is the problem....
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Mynas Atoch
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 08:51:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 12/11/2009 08:52:24 Can we have one little buff to balance this nerf .. a reprocessing module for POS that can take a supercap with a reasonable efficiency? Please? That will sort most of the complaints in one go and let a lot of older players disinvest emotionally from this issue. You win, we win, everyone is happy and we all get on with our lives.
And no, I'm not joking.
Myn
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Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 08:52:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Gimora Edited by: Gimora on 12/11/2009 00:30:29 And for once i ccp actaly didd somthing that createt NO COMPLAINTS!
Until you didd this!
Credit where credit is due, CCP's team did come up with some fantastic changes. Now lets face it, no self respecting 0.0 pilot who has been piloting a mothership before would agree to what has now been added to the test server. Whoever is responsible for testing this new amendment out, perhaps they could step forward and help us to understand where he or she is going with this?
As for all of you who are posting here in this thread, commenting about those who have said they will cancel their subscriptions because of this. You seem to fail at understanding why people are posting here If we voice of concern over something which is being tested, and not yet confirmed, at least there is a better chance that it will be reversed. We all sit quiet, then it'll just be assumed we're good with it and they'll move onto the next issue.
So please, continue informing CCP if you are upset about this issue. Let them know that this will have an effect on peoples game play. Let them know if you have had enough of this ridiculous carry on. But, please don't don't bother posting here complaining about someone doing so.
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King Dave
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 08:53:00 -
[137]
Yay, inactive mom alt. Staying inactive..
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HeliosGal
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 08:55:00 -
[138]
only other option is to give a dps boost to the fighter bombers themselves. Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 09:01:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 12/11/2009 08:52:24 Can we have one little buff to balance this nerf .. a reprocessing module for POS that can take a supercap with a reasonable efficiency? Please? That will sort most of the complaints in one go and let a lot of older players disinvest emotionally from this issue. You win, we win, everyone is happy and we all get on with our lives.
And no, I'm not joking.
Myn
But Mynas, I like my half arsed bestower Even more so, I like the fact that someone has put the time into developing them in a useful way.
Greetings from Finland btw o/
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mineswallower
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 09:06:00 -
[140]
Originally by: dracice not that I do not share your concerns guys, even as a non ms pilot I still like to see them in action.
however, this is a test server, and nothing is final until dominion is released, they are reworkin things everyday and numbers.
I am CONFIDENT, these will not be the final numbers for the super carriers, no matter what comes, it will not be left useless like this.
And thats the reason for this thread, so that they dont make just such a suicidal stealth nerf, and think that the unsuspecting eve community is dumb and wont see it for what it is.
HTFU CCP, get Noah on here to hold his hands up to this mess please
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 09:14:00 -
[141]
Honestly is the At least telling us why you did it to much to ask....
CCP: Hey So guys we are gonna Change the Name Make it Cooler, Then Add A New Fighter for you. Which will Allow the New Mothership to be a Cap killer not a Pos Decoration..... And then we are gonna take half them away... No reason just thought it would be fun.
NotsoSuper-carrier Pilot: *Picks Up Gun Hits Self Destruct then shoots himself in the face*
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Chagaline
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 09:28:00 -
[142]
/Signed by angry/sad SC pilot =(
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 09:37:00 -
[143]
Protest!
Don't know who to vote for? Find out with CSM matchmaker!
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Gneeznow
Minmatar Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2009.11.12 09:39:00 -
[144]
cancelling my ten accounts and all my friends and their ten accounts and then cancelling my life in RL if this goes through
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Deathbarrage
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 09:43:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Tarron Sarek Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 12/11/2009 04:59:35 Personally I don't think a supercarrier should deal double or 2.5 times the damage of a dread. 10k+ dps is uncalled-for, but it should at least be 50% more than a dread.
Dread DPS (short range guns): ~8000 Mothership DPS: 9600 (Nyx, 12000)
This is 20% (non-Nyx) to 50% (Nyx) more DPS than a dread.
However, if these new changes go in effect, the result will be:
Mothership DPS: 4800 (Nyx, 6000)
The motherships will now do 40% LESS DPS than a dread, with the Nyx lucking out at only doing 25% less DPS.
Unlike dreads, motherships have a primary weapon system that can be easily destroyed (smartbombs, shooting the darn FBs etc). Their weapon system has limited range (in effect, since FBs can't be delegated, short range fighting is the only viable option for any fight where DPS needs to be maximized). Their weapon system is not instant-damage (sharing that characteristic with Phoenixes).
Like dreads, motherships have a single purpose. Dreads are high-DPS anti-structure ships, with a secondary role of shooting capital ships. They are inherently unable to kill anything smaller with any degree of success. Motherships on the other hand are pure anti-capital ships. They have the wrong weapon system to shoot structures effectively (Fighters and FBs cannot get close enough to a POS to shoot it, not sure about TCU and other structures though) and against subcapitals, their performance drops hideously - they may be able to kill battleships at short range fairly easily, but this can be countered easily by rotating snipe spots and/or simply shooting the FBs.
Unlike carriers, motherships are NOT designed to be versatile support ships. Let's face it, a carrier has abysmal DPS (the same DPS as a close-range BS) but is able to make up for it with their RRing capabilities, triage function etc. Yes, a mothership can use RR as well, but is far less suited for the task, by not being able to perform it any better than a normal carrier, for ten times the cost.
Bottom line here, CCP. Motherships in the presented form were fine. They were underutilized before, the change was going to bring them back to the frontlines. With this nerf, there's ONCE AGAIN no reason to bring out a mothership. They do less DPS than a dread (which is far more expendable, easier to build, easier to replace, easier to get out of) and are not much better than a standard carrier.
And no, I will not buy into the "10 drones with twice the DPS is better" argument. I've trained carrier 5 for a reason. I want my full 20 FBs, because it's frakking awesome!
please show me a revelation pulse fit or whatever that does 8k dps =/
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Enosh Kerrim
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 10:17:00 -
[146]
many thx CCP we just sunk 100b isk . WTF is the reason for that
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 10:29:00 -
[147]
I've always liked the Nyx, but never wanted to get one as they weren't really useful. Then you guys introduced fighter/bombers and Motherships, or Supercarriers, where actually worth fighting. Then you go and pull this ****. They now have a fraction of the DPS of a Dread at 10 times the cost. Way to go and **** up CCP. I'm happy I waited to buy my Nyx, cuz now, not only are they useless, they are more useless than before you introduced fighter/bombers.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:19:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
please show me a revelation pulse fit or whatever that does 8k dps =/
They're changing the damage figures on sisi FYI.
Don't know who to vote for? Find out with CSM matchmaker!
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:32:00 -
[149]
i may hate capitals-online but this is just one of those facepalm-ideas - putting the gist back into logistics |
IAmPrimary
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:42:00 -
[150]
Would be nice to see a comment from CCP...
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2009.11.12 12:34:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Deathbarrage
please show me a revelation pulse fit or whatever that does 8k dps =/
They're changing the damage figures on sisi FYI.
ah srry didn't know that, can't check it since I'm a mac user and the new sisi mac client crashes on login
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Mendolorian Girl
Caldari Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 13:01:00 -
[152]
I wasn't too concerned about this because deep down I don't think CCP are *this* dumb. But their silence is now becoming more than a little unnerving. Come on, say something already!
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Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.12 13:12:00 -
[153]
CCP lost his mind finally lol.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.11.12 13:36:00 -
[154]
It is confusing. The supercapital rebalancing has so far probably eaten up at least 100 manhours developer time (guess) and thousands of manhours playtesting + feedback by players.
The dust settled a bit, signaling the new supercarriers landed where they were supposed to be. A complete revamp, removing all fleet support roles (Warfare Links, Triage mode, Clone Vat bay) and converting them into frontline ships that actually see intentional pvp. Essentially, big bricks of HP and anti-capital DPS.
And now the DPS get halved, trashing all the rebalancing efforts that actually made them into ships players were once again (and first for a very long time) eager to get into? Do. not. understand.
Personally I'd vote for an additional bonus of 100%/level to drone/fighter HP and damage, giving supercarriers 10 drones/fighters that behave like 20 with a slight nerf to fighter delegation (because that bonus probably can't be kept) and a slight buff to users of Drone Control Units. If this gets spinned as a "need for speed" issue.
|
Silent Lamb
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:23:00 -
[155]
For the very few people who know who my main is, they'll be shocked to see me post with any toon, but this really is quite a shock to me that CCP hasn't voiced anything yet.
seriously? wtf? what is it? what gives? I heart my mothership, and this is really ****ing me off.
seriously, wtf?
answer already CCP!!!!!!!!!! |
acompton
Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:30:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Gneeznow cancelling my ten accounts and all my friends and their ten accounts and then cancelling my life in RL if this goes through
I too will be cancelling Gneeznows accounts
Also glad I didnt buy that Wyvern...
|
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:35:00 -
[157]
Don't worry, they halved Titan gun bonuses on Sisi too.
|
Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Hellstrome Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:52:00 -
[158]
Well, its official - CCP just released a dev blog explaining the changes to super caps, and the stats there are the same as in SiSi atm. So basically, the titan/SC changes are final, and were gonna see the half damage titans and the 10 drone SCs come december 1.
Source: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=709 =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
|
CCP Nozh
C C P
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:57:00 -
[159]
Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh Nozh Game Designer CCP Games |
|
Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:02:00 -
[160]
Character imprisonment is a bit harsh with this much flexibility removed and such a tight role.
|
|
Tyler
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:02:00 -
[161]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
You need to lose your job; sooner rather then later tbh.
|
SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:03:00 -
[162]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
So then keep the fighters at 20 and just limit the bombers then, don't fix what isn't broken! The Light in the Darkness
|
Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:05:00 -
[163]
This is ****. **** off CCP. I hope somebody loses their job over this bull****. this is just wretched.
|
MAX MEXX
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:06:00 -
[164]
Dear CCP dude, go find a new jobb.
|
SauliusV
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:07:00 -
[165]
pretty horrible....
Why not do separate class/that is a gimped mom and call it supercarrier, and leave mom as they were supposed to be. With 20 bobmers and etc then...
|
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:12:00 -
[166]
this is terrible. You are terrible.
This Patch will be the end. |
Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:12:00 -
[167]
Condolences to my fellow Super-capital colleagues. You are almost as shafted as us Titan pilots.
|
sg3s
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:17:00 -
[168]
Listening to players? Please, listen to yourselves, you'd ruin the game within seconds. CCP is doing their job trying to keep things balanced.
You whiners are unbelievable :-/
|
Arthur Pewty
Nail Remover Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:18:00 -
[169]
Isn't the instant loss in value of 10B a bit harsh upon existing Mothership owners?
Will the BPO cost come down as well, to reflect their new build cost?
Arthur Pewty
|
Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:18:00 -
[170]
what about the fact that you just cut in half all other drone DPS, which is what motherships will still spend 95% of their time using because no one is going to risk fighters/fighterbombers while smartbombing carriers are still being deployed.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
|
El1sha
Quam Singulari Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:19:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Kraken Kill this is terrible. You are terrible.
This Patch will be the end.
^ this tbh..
|
Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:20:00 -
[172]
My last finals are comming up next summer. This F..up ****e will give me an excuse to cansel my 4 accounts that runs out in december.. More beer for me.. less beer for CCP..
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Evlyna
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:20:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Evlyna on 12/11/2009 15:25:25
Originally by: CCP Nozh What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. ... ... nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage...
That's really funny stuff. It's an Anti-Capital ship that will be more effective against moving targets. I'll have to remember that one.
Because clearly, Titans, other moms and dreads are having a lot of fun speedtanking each others right??
Look ma, I'm doing 88m/s, that Supercarrier will do **** damage against me.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:21:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Dramaticus what about the fact that you just cut in half all other drone DPS, which is what motherships will still spend 95% of their time using because no one is going to risk fighters/fighterbombers while smartbombing carriers are still being deployed.
Also who is going to give up highslots from neuts, smartbombs, and RR to fit DCUs. CCP fails at understanding their own game.
No point even argue with the troll talking about balance.
|
Hurricane Carter
0ccam's Razor Varangians.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:21:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Hurricane Carter on 12/11/2009 15:22:19 Copy pasted from my post on Scrapheap:
Its nice that we can now get 5-6 billion isk coffins for our pilots... but that being side its just utter SHEIT right now.
10 fighters is the same as a max skilled carrier pilot, which a LOT of carrier pilots have. What is the advantage right now between having a supercarrier and a bunch of carriers ?
Carriers can be insured Supercarriers can not
carriers can dock suppercarriers can not
Carriers have 1.5odd K DPS (guessing with max skills in regards to what CCP Said at fanfest) Supercarriers can do 5-6k now
Quick Excell warrioring states: Supercarrier: 5Bil cost to build (Proper ME level etc etc etc 400 mil to fit
Carrier: 600 mil mineral cost 250 to fit 350 mil insurance cost 700 mil insurance payout
Lose 1 supercarrier: 5400 million isk loss (5.4 bil) before you reach that amount on carriers (if we say your carrier isn't going to live through the first insurance cycle thus does not need to be reinsured)
Carrier 10 is a 5bil loss * carrier 11 a 5.5 Bil loss *
*= Cumulative loss
so you can effectively lose 10 carriers before you lose 1 mom's worth
Now consider those 10 carriers when RR'ng can tank a lot more single DPS then the supercarrier can, have about 15k DPS as opposed to the single supercarrier's 5-6k DPS and...
ye
why the **** fly/build a supercarrier anyways
|
Dratic
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:21:00 -
[176]
This is ridiculous. Super caps survive by having neuts and smartbombs in their high slots. There are tons of hics around so the electronic warfare immunity means nothing for serious engagements. Drone control units even if they were massively buffed wouldn't place them over something which could realistically save the ship except for now i'm guessing that'll be Ctrl + Q .
Less than 3 weeks from release this is the wrong time to mess with something like this.
|
NightHawk VenGarden
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:22:00 -
[177]
Edited by: NightHawk VenGarden on 12/11/2009 15:26:07
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
Don't need to commit? Have you ever flown a mothership? FFS, Have you ever flown even a carrier? Their very presence on a battlefield is a commitment to win or die as hostiles will spam bubbles via dictors or god forbid they bring in a heavy dictor(150m isk can tackle anything...****ing stupid).
This ships are large, their align times are huge....there is an eternity in which to catch them and hold them down for a LOT longer then the 10 min siege cycle. We are not overlooking anything, we actually play the game. You are clearly overlooking the fact that half the end-game pilots in eve spent the past couple of weeks laying out large amounts of isk in order to purchase these things which will now be a laugh. WTF is wrong with you?
Thank you for ****ing your customers.
-7 accounts. ---
"We're evil men in the gardens of paradise." - Col. Saul Tigh. |
Nooto
Caldari Dragon Clan Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:26:00 -
[178]
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Capital Shield and Armor transfer range per level 5% bonus to deployed Fighter and Fighter Bomber damage per level Can fit Projected Electronic Counter Measures Can deploy 1 additional Fighter or Drone per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
ccp you suck BEWARE!!!
All text above this sig represents my personal opinion. This in no way reflects the views of my corporation or alliance |
Ruby Lionheart
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:26:00 -
[179]
First time i actaly canceld my accounts to.
-4 accounts
|
App Rentoo
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:28:00 -
[180]
Edited by: App Rentoo on 12/11/2009 15:33:39
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
You clearly have no clue about game mechanics, with the way supercarriers need ages to align, and the high amount of HICs around, a supercarrier will be just as commited to a battle as a dread will, except they cant even kill the freaking hics after your idiotic nerf. Carefully considering whether I should just cancel my 7 accounts, because the lack of understanding about your own game mechanics shown by CCP is just stunning. ---------------------------------------------- Caldari State corp standing services.
|
|
Kaar
Rionnag Alba
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:28:00 -
[181]
I dunno how this game has survived so long with such clueless devs shaping a game they dont understand.
---
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Fylin Manslayer
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:29:00 -
[182]
Really terrible idea - these ships SHOULD be hard to get and give really big benefits to those that have them. Soon people will field lots of them and carriers will start to get overlooked by bigger alliances.
I do wonder how much you guys actually play the game before you make these decisions. I was very excited about how my Aeon would be able to be used much more but now it isn't looking anywhere near as attractive.
I have also lost a lot of ISK if I wanted to sell.
|
Tyler
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:29:00 -
[183]
Clearly Seleene has been lockde up in some sort of dungeon, there's no way he would ever implement such a change.....
|
Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:30:00 -
[184]
Dude why would you kill the NYX? The ship is gona be crap man what the hell. You know people have worked their ass off to save for that ship and now your gona make it a peace of junk. Thank you for destroying 3 years of hard work. -----------------------------------------------
|
Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:30:00 -
[185]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
Ah, so you're the 'special' child who's been out playing around with the big boys toys. Perhaps you should go home and check with mummy and daddy about what you're trying to do. I was of the understanding that a well respected and former player regarding super capitals was dealing with this. You know, shoving something this size up someone's back side without as much as a please and thank you isn't polite.
You're talking about a reduced cost for building these ships, but what about all those which have existed for years and all those while are currently in build?
When will we be receiving the refund?
You seem to be the most closed minded Developer I have ever come across, I'd expect something better from a company I've worked with and respected for near 7 years. You cannot and will not remove 40% of what these ships are without cutting a piece of the community away. Mothership's have been an already limited platform since they were created, what you've done is **** us ya ungrateful jump start!
I'll be expecting my forum ban in the mail, since I'm not going to let this one go!
|
sg3s
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:33:00 -
[186]
Hmmmmm, OK, lets try this. How would you guys like it if supercarriers go back to what they are now, except the HP boost that can stay or titans are gonna have a fun time.
So no fighter bombers, high costs, but +3 fighters per lvl etc.
Would that be better?
Nerfs that offset buffs aren't especially bad.
|
Kaeser
Caldari DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:33:00 -
[187]
Did the IQ at CCP drop inline with the drop in the value of the local currency ?
Why is CCP trying so hard to kill it's own game ? To free more resources for Dust ?
Oh well...guess I can lose the three accounts being held for supercaps. Thank god I'm not one of the poor sods who had actually gone out and bought a mothership or titan prior to waiting to see what CCP would do.
Thank you CCP for saving me some RL dollars and some ingame ISK.
|
Saimedai
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:33:00 -
[188]
Just dropped 40b on a worthless mothership/character/officer mods in the hopes of them being worth having. Thanks CCP!
|
Mynas Atoch
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:33:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 12/11/2009 15:34:36 And THIS dear friends is why a man with a spreadsheet should not be given a job to 'balance' something only the most experienced players in the game fly.
Nozh If you are SO confident that your decision is right, give us the option to reprocess them into components at our nearest empire hangar as part of the startup for Dominion and let us decide for ourselves.
Myn
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Umberto Tann
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:34:00 -
[190]
TERRIBLE IDEA, ther goes my hard work to gain one. this is really ridulous. Not gonna repeat what others, should be enough. FAIL
|
|
iudex
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:34:00 -
[191]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
Why are you doing this ? Eve economy is growing, there is not a shortage of building materials, also there are enough miners to supply the demand for ore and enough new logistic tools (e.g. jump freighters) to make the building process easy. You are effectively devaluating the ships for all people who already own or hold a MS. Now the ship they have is suddenly worth 40% less. Think of all the manufacturers that have built them before your announcement and now have them in stock and can sell them without a huge loss. And there's no need to reduce the price, I don't think the isk is the problem, as other mentioned above, the main issue is the lack of dockablity (req. of an extra character/clone). Please don't bring down the price, and then nerf the ship, to make it's performance match the (new) price again.
At least please don't touch the MS BPO prices. People bought MS BPOs as investments to make copies or research them, there is a solid market for that, BPCs are traded on a daily basis. If you "adjust" BPO prices as well, it's like deleting someone's isk. _____________________________________________________ My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00 |
Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:35:00 -
[192]
Originally by: NightHawk VenGarden We are not overlooking anything, we actually play the game. WTF is wrong with you?
Thank you for ****ing your customers.
Quotin' cause is true.
This expansion CAN'T suck more (well it could, but then you would have pulled an NGE), mad props CCP!
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Ridjeck Thome
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:36:00 -
[193]
wait, so not only do I get stuck with a 10bnisk+ loss - just becuase you cant be bothered to invent a mini-version of the mom...I now have to fly a coffin for one of my characters that even MORE worthless then it was before...
if you really think this is going to make moms more popular, you are deluded.
DONT impost a 10bn loss on us MOM pilots that have been stuck with this ship and promised an improvement.
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:36:00 -
[194]
This is pretty ridiculous tbh. I thought the purpose of these changes was to encourage people to use and lose supercaps more often. The original changes kinda did this (as much as you can encourage someone to risk billions without making them damn near invincible).
But this recent change actually ruins the other changes you made. So, you removed the oversized smartbomb style DD, i think we can all agree that was a good idea. But who is going to field a titan in battle now? With motherships offering the dps of a good dread, and the remote repping power of a NON-triaged carrier, it doesn't really seem worth the risk to deploy one to keep a titan alive. You could just drop a dread and a carrier in its place and get a MUCH more effective rep out of the deal.
With motherships out of the picture, titans have to rely on themselves, and the regular capfleet in order to shed the dps incoming to them, this just isn't going to be enough. They lost their anti-cap buddies.
So here we are, with Motherships now called something stupid, now minus a triage mod, and minus some damage. The only thing you've actually ADDED is an HP boost, which seem kind of ridiculous when everything else actually discourages the pilot to field it.
You wanted people to use and lose them more? Well you ****ed that one up. Things are gonna be no different, these coffins will hardly see the light of day. Only now, when someone is fortunate enough to catch one jumping to a pos, they're going to need to drop 50 or so dreads straight away in order to kill it before it just slowboats into shields from the cyno (HP boost and bumping changes ftw). Well done, you just managed to achieve the exact opposite of what you set out to do... lmao
tl;dr - gay.
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mineswallower
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:39:00 -
[195]
I am speachless.
CCP try to push a slient nerf through and fail CCP ignore the thread and fail CCP try to justify the change and fail
Upshot is CCP fail
1 - I would like a 10b refund on my Nyx please, as your so inept, I am sure some ebay isk seller can do you a good deal, apparently your more interested in rl trading than building a workable game
2 - I would like to swap all those level 5 skills that I have for motherships, to something useful, like consumer relations, or diplomacy skills
3 - I would like you to go and appolagise to all the devs that have actually played this game and are opposed to these nerfs
4 - Try getting the famous balancing wand out, give it a wave and see which hole it ends up sticking out of.
So come on then, ban me, like I give a **** anymore
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:42:00 -
[196]
so how do people who spent 15b on the ships just prior to the patch ment to live with them only being worth 5b? Please undo this crap. |
xttz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:44:00 -
[197]
I never thought I'd say this but... bring back Seleene.
Nozh can return to making coffee, cleaning the desks or whatever he did before.
|
Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:44:00 -
[198]
Every one QUICK selfdestruct your motership!
This wil give you more insurance isk, then the cost of them after dominon!
This blow's just canceld 4 accounts
|
Arzal
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:45:00 -
[199]
This is the most stupid thing iv heard, why make them so cheap? surely they should be a super cap? not the next dreadnaught, or RMR carrier? congrats you have gone a total circle.
secondly why nerf them already, they were only good agaisnt caps, everything else could just move and speed tank them.
noone will use them, they will use dreads, easy to replace, easyer on lag. everything in their favour. you have totally ruined a perfectly good concept.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:46:00 -
[200]
Honestly CCP, I consider myself a patient person, but what do you think your player base will do if you keep kicking them with multiple nerfs all at once. I was patient. I was willing to accept your crappy upgrade system; I was willing to put up with a new Sov system that still revolved around shooting stationary things in space; I was even willing to put up with the unnecessary 10 minute cool down time on the new DDs. Then you come with these latest nerfs on titan turret damage and it started to get under my skin and then you ****ing needlessly nerf supercarriers which a lot of people took time to train for and purchase(thankfully I have only bought the fitting, not the carrier) and then you just kick them right in the balls while their down. I honestly don't know what to say to this. You guys are the most clues bunch of morons that I have ever met. You literally know nothing of how your game works. I'm just lost for words as to the magnitude of stupidity with this decision. Decisions like this(alienating the long term memberbase) is what kills MMOs. Congratulations CCP, you have just won the biggest collective dumbass of the year award.
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Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:46:00 -
[201]
Originally by: xttz I never thought I'd say this but... bring back Seleene.
Nozh can return to making coffee, cleaning the desks or whatever he did before.
Quoting because we really need someone like Seleene to be assigned to this!!!
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Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:48:00 -
[202]
I think the most interesting thing that Nozh said that every post I've read is glossing over is the fact that DCU's are broken and are being rebalanced.... and he's right.
The last time I fit a DCU was in 2006. If this mod becomes useful, this might not be a horrible thing.
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:48:00 -
[203]
I demand a compensation of 20b isk for my two Aeons from CCP before these changes hit the live server.
This is not open for debate. I invested the isk and gamemechanic changes take them, so it is no market fluctuation.
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Soldur
Helljumpers
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:50:00 -
[204]
ha the changes are great people are just emo raging because the just lost out on about 10-15b isk for those that already have moms....haha fail
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Ne0tr0n
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:50:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Ne0tr0n on 12/11/2009 15:50:36 wtf how stupid can you be ccp? wtf is wrong with you nerfing moms this hard stupid idiots
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Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:51:00 -
[206]
Currently, there is zero reason to use a Super-Carrier over a Dreadnaught. It is still a much cheaper and effective Anti-Capital. Instant damage, fully insurable and can dock.
You guys are so clueless.
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dj crap
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:51:00 -
[207]
Edited by: dj crap on 12/11/2009 15:53:44 Just submitted a stuck petition....
-----------
Hi,
I fly a Nyx, I am stuck in this ship which in 3 weeks time, your fail devs are making worthless.
Please can you move me to a station so that I can reprocess it?
If not, please can you print it off, walk round the corner and stick this petition up Nozh ***
Fondest regards
DJ
-----------
Lol, I get a response!
Hello,
I'm afraid you are not meant to be able to reprocess motherships. If you are unhappy with the changes you can post about it on the forums as we in the GM team do not handle game design decisions.
Best Regards, GM Sparkle
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Commander Diaz
Caldari GreenSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:52:00 -
[208]
I dont really mind ccp nerfing stuff into oblivion.. but its not very nice when they tell you they are buffing it and get you all excited and then nerf it just at the last minute. Hurts my feelings
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kapten sortebil
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:53:00 -
[209]
Why change a perfectly good concept?
The first dominon changes where damn nice!
Not a single person complained about it!
Why whuld you change somthing that was not BROKEN?
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:53:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Agmar I think the most interesting thing that Nozh said that every post I've read is glossing over is the fact that DCU's are broken and are being rebalanced.... and he's right.
The last time I fit a DCU was in 2006. If this mod becomes useful, this might not be a horrible thing.
The numbers he quoted with a full rack of DCUs was still barely as much as a dread, when the SC hull alone costs 3 times as much as a fitted dread(which can be insured) and you can't dock. Not to mention your damage is extremely reliant on not have your F/Bs smartbombed by your enemies carrier blob. This turns SC into glorified carriers that can't dock and serve no real purpose.
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Tyler
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:54:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Dri Kulsane Edited by: Dri Kulsane on 12/11/2009 15:48:05
Originally by: xttz I never thought I'd say this but... bring back Seleene.
Nozh can return to making coffee, cleaning the desks or whatever he did before.
Too true if it's so!!!
I was under the impression that sel was on this....
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:55:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Odda Every one QUICK selfdestruct your motership!
This wil give you more insurance isk, then the cost of them after dominon!
Just thought about the same. Scary thing is, with default insurance between 5.6 and 6.3b isk, this could actually work.
BPOs on sisi haven't been updated though.
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Glassback
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:55:00 -
[213]
See, before I had something to aim for.
Something I could work towards for the next 4 months, take pleasure in flying, get my heart pumping when in combat and FEEL pain when it gets blown up.
Now, well its more EvE Vanilla.
CCP, I call Shenanigans.
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Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:55:00 -
[214]
Originally by: kapten sortebil Why change a perfectly good concept?
The first dominon changes where damn nice!
Not a single person complained about it!
Why whuld you change somthing that was not BROKEN?
If no one complains, it must be nerfed, C/D?
CCP lacks logic. They need some serious competition so we can leave this failboat.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 15:57:00 -
[215]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
Abathur and Hammerhead had this all sewn up nicely at Fanfest. The capital ships panel was broadly hailed as a success and the players were excited about the upcoming changes.
Now you've created chaos where previously there was a surprisingly high degree of order and unanimity, for EVE at least. With your clumsy PR move there, you also just wiped out the wealth of everyone planning and investing in MS builds, or who was planning on selling one pre-patch.
Don't like the changes? Sell your MS! Oh wait, Nozh told everyone they'll be cut in value by 40%, even though that's not been finalized. Good luck selling one now!
I don't know who you are or why you're messing with what was one of the few uncontroversially good aspects of Dominion. But you should back off these changes ASAP. You should also gain a basic understanding of economics/public relations, given how much chaos your lil post there just created.
I don't even fly a supercap, and GS isn't exactly a supercap heavy alliance, but your pro-move stealth nerf and followup nightmare post is infuriating in and of itself. In fact, I'm so annoyed, I'm dropping my posting gimmick to point out how monumentally poorly judged this is.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:58:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Misanth on 12/11/2009 16:04:54 Can you confirm that the base value of the ship is changed too? It might actually be worth stripping it down and blowing it up for insurance money before Dominion hits.
Don't get me wrong, the xMom's looks like great RR 0.0-fleet ships, but who the **** wants that, except carebearing spacehogging ***s like the NC. This is The Most single stupid change in EVE, ever, and only time I seriously considered to sell off ships/characters. What. The. ****. Seriously. Not everyone wants to do thousands-of-player-lagfests-in-0.0 and own space for cheap production.
I bought mine for logistic reasons, but the 20 drones, combined with highslots (multiple neuts) is a necessity for self-defence. If damage is an issue, how about removing the FB's instead of killing off a whole shiptype?
Normally I back up CCP when ****storm hits, but this time I'm gonna call you out for what you are: idiots, with no clue, that just adds toys you like rather than thinking about consequences. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
NightHawk VenGarden
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:05:00 -
[217]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
Abathur and Hammerhead had this all sewn up nicely at Fanfest. The capital ships panel was broadly hailed as a success and the players were excited about the upcoming changes.
Now you've created chaos where previously there was a surprisingly high degree of order and unanimity, for EVE at least. With your clumsy PR move there, you also just wiped out the wealth of everyone planning and investing in MS builds, or who was planning on selling one pre-patch.
Don't like the changes? Sell your MS! Oh wait, Nozh told everyone they'll be cut in value by 40%, even though that's not been finalized. Good luck selling one now!
I don't know who you are or why you're messing with what was one of the few uncontroversially good aspects of Dominion. But you should back off these changes ASAP. You should also gain a basic understanding of economics/public relations, given how much chaos your lil post there just created.
I don't even fly a supercap, and GS isn't exactly a supercap heavy alliance, but your pro-move stealth nerf and followup nightmare post is infuriating in and of itself. In fact, I'm so annoyed, I'm dropping my posting gimmick to point out how monumentally poorly judged this is.
I would make another post...but this post sums up my thoughts better then I can at the moment as I'm so furious I cannot see straight.
Therefore, I will simply quote this post and use the opportunity to yet again say CCP, WTF ARE YOU THINKING? ---
"We're evil men in the gardens of paradise." - Col. Saul Tigh. |
SigmaPi
Vitharr's Vengeance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:07:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Agmar I think the most interesting thing that Nozh said that every post I've read is glossing over is the fact that DCU's are broken and are being rebalanced.... and he's right.
The last time I fit a DCU was in 2006. If this mod becomes useful, this might not be a horrible thing.
They are only broken in-so-far as they don't give an extra drone when active now (on sisi). --------------------- SigmaPi
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Minmatar citizen4561451
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:07:00 -
[219]
if even HALF the people here complaining about the change, and subsequently threatening to cancel their accounts, actually followed through on their threats...CCP would have something to be worried about.
the problem is, this happens before EVERYmajor patch. Some huge change hits and people cry. Remember the ship HP buff? how about Nano-nerf? Now Moms are being changed in a way adverse to what you all might want, and here we are, a thread full of whiney babies.
You dont like it, dont play....but as far as I can see, 9k DPS out of a mothership is pretty beefy. Quit your raging and either take it like a man/woman...or quit like you say you will. |
Misanth
Reaper Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:12:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Dratic This is ridiculous. Super caps survive by having neuts and smartbombs in their high slots. There are tons of hics around so the electronic warfare immunity means nothing for serious engagements. Drone control units even if they were massively buffed wouldn't place them over something which could realistically save the ship except for now i'm guessing that'll be Ctrl + Q .
Less than 3 weeks from release this is the wrong time to mess with something like this.
..that's the more sensible version of what I just wrote (and re-wrote 3 times).
Just to put things into perspective for non-xMom-pilots: with FB lv4 skill and rest skills maxed out on SiSi, my Aeon kills a Thanatos with 20 FB faster then I can kill a non-fitted/naked Abaddon that orbits me at 20km range. That's a very simple explantion of why you need neuts, Fighters, and regular drones.
It can't get more simple than that. If damage really is an issue, how about removing the ****ing FB's instead of nerfing a whole shiptype so you can introduce a new toy (that wasn't even necessary to add)? - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
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NightHawk VenGarden
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:13:00 -
[221]
Another thought....
just consider how bad you're 'effing' things up here CCP.
Mittens up there is all ::serious postin':: whereas I(who never posts basicly) am trying to get a forum ban over this.
That's a pretty serious swap-over guys....jus sayin' ---
"We're evil men in the gardens of paradise." - Col. Saul Tigh. |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:13:00 -
[222]
lol drone control units - putting the gist back into logistics |
Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:13:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Adam Ridgway on 12/11/2009 16:14:04 Why bother, they won't ever read it.
This is CCP: - Hype, hype, PR & more hype. - Talk about how much they like their player base and interacting with it (all PR for the media)... CSM, fanfest, test server, feedback, & all that jazz. - In the last moment change things because they feel like it according to some fuzzy logic and spreedsheets and **** their customers.
I'll tell you something, people invest a lot of time in this game, and a lot of it feels more like work than straight fun, but everyone understands that's part of the game and no one whines. But you can't play with your customers like that and making them waste time and money, hyping and utterlly lying. I'm not a MOM pilot, neihter titan, was consdiering to save for a MOM eventually, also was coming interested in getting back to teh grindfest which is 0.0, but I don't have the time for this *******s anymore and your ******ed game design.
Mad props again CCP. You don't deserve the success you got with EVE, if it wasn't because is pretty much unique in its core concept you would be ****ed up because you're worthless when it comes to balance, development, and listening to your player base.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:15:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Agmar You are correct, and I agree completely with you. DCU's as they are now, are absolutely worthless. If Nozh says that they're being changed, and boosted, say to allow a per level bonus... they may not be horrible. Allowing 1-2 extra drones per level of whatever skill that is could allow for this change to be not worthless.
However, the rationality behind this change seems to be flawed. It is as if someone arbitrarily picked a mod that no one used and decided it needed to be balanced. I'd have preferred that they spend their time on nos/neuts, but w/e.
They are only being fixed insofar as they don't actually let you use an extra drone on sisi atm. Other than that they are staying as is, based on Nozh's post(using his estimated DPS).
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:15:00 -
[225]
Yeah, this change should have been announced first.
Would have save the developers and players thousands of hours of balancing, testing and giving feedback.
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SteelHelix
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:15:00 -
[226]
Personally I am a big fan of launching 20 drones but I can kind of understand why you want to limit the amount of Fighter Bombers on the field so instead of limiting the number of drones a SC can launch why not instead limit it by the bandwidth it has available. I mean a FB uses 500mBit/s while everything else is 25mBit/s and lower so setting the Super Carriers available bandwidth to 5000mBit/s will still allow 20 of everything but FB's which will be limited to 10 due to bandwidth. This will also require modifying the Drone Control Unit to not only +1 drone number but also add 500mBit/s Bandwidth.
So in summary:
- Reduce available bandwidth on SC to 5000
- Change the Drone Control unit bonus to +1 drone and +500mBit/s bandwidth
- Change the SC drone bonus back to +3 per level
This will have the main effect of allowing a lvl 5 carrier character to still fly 20 fighters or drones but only 10 Fighter Bombers because of the bandwidth limitation.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:17:00 -
[227]
Edited by: The Mittani on 12/11/2009 16:17:46 Another seriouspost: What on earth is going on in your dev environment when you assign a team of random devs to re-do the already completed/settled work of a previous team?
The primary reason why the nullsec playerbase is even vaguely considering the Dominion sov changes in a positive light is because the known architects of the design was /one of us/. Someone we know understands the game and all the things that can go wrong with it. When Soundwave or Abathur mouth off about sov, we can at least know that they understand where we're coming from.
Similarly: the supercapital changes were, until now, designed by someone who flew the damn things extensively, logged many hours pvping in them, and lost a titan to boot. Abathur has cred on supercapital changes. Who are you, Nozh? How many hours have you logged in a supercap? Where does your team's credibility on these new, unasked-for supercapital changes come from?
Leave nullsec and capital changes to devs who actually have some shred of credibility/experience in design.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
|
Mendolorian Girl
Caldari Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:17:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Mendolorian Girl on 12/11/2009 16:17:39
Originally by: The Mittani Abathur and Hammerhead had this all sewn up nicely at Fanfest. The capital ships panel was broadly hailed as a success and the players were excited about the upcoming changes.
Now you've created chaos where previously there was a surprisingly high degree of order and unanimity, for EVE at least. With your clumsy PR move there, you also just wiped out the wealth of everyone planning and investing in MS builds, or who was planning on selling one pre-patch.
Don't like the changes? Sell your MS! Oh wait, Nozh told everyone they'll be cut in value by 40%, even though that's not been finalized. Good luck selling one now!
I don't know who you are or why you're messing with what was one of the few uncontroversially good aspects of Dominion. But you should back off these changes ASAP. You should also gain a basic understanding of economics/public relations, given how much chaos your lil post there just created.
I don't even fly a supercap, and GS isn't exactly a supercap heavy alliance, but your pro-move stealth nerf and followup nightmare post is infuriating in and of itself. In fact, I'm so annoyed, I'm dropping my posting gimmick to point out how monumentally poorly judged this is.
I hate that I'm about to say this, but I couldn't agree with The Mittani more. A well thought out and intelligent post.
You'll have to excuse me, I now have to go shower in bleach.
//edit - crap, he did it again.. another sensible answer :(
|
The Kan
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:17:00 -
[229]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
W T F
|
kapten sortebil
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:18:00 -
[230]
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 12/11/2009 16:17:46 Another seriouspost: What on earth is going on in your dev environment when you assign a team of random devs to re-do the already completed/settled work of a previous team?
The primary reason why the nullsec playerbase is even vaguely considering the Dominion sov changes in a positive light is because the known architects of the design was /one of us/. Someone we know understands the game and all the things that can go wrong with it. When Soundwave or Abathur mouth off about sov, we can at least know that they understand where we're coming from.
Similarly: the supercapital changes were, until now, designed by someone who flew the damn things extensively, logged many hours pvping in them, and lost a titan to boot. Abathur has cred on supercapital changes. Who are you, Nozh? How many hours have you logged in a supercap? Where does your team's credibility on these new, unasked-for supercapital changes come from?
Leave nullsec and capital changes to devs who actually have some shred of credibility/experience in design.
Actaly agreeing with Mittani
|
|
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:20:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Kraken Kill on 12/11/2009 16:25:54
Originally by: NightHawk VenGarden
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
Abathur and Hammerhead had this all sewn up nicely at Fanfest. The capital ships panel was broadly hailed as a success and the players were excited about the upcoming changes.
Now you've created chaos where previously there was a surprisingly high degree of order and unanimity, for EVE at least. With your clumsy PR move there, you also just wiped out the wealth of everyone planning and investing in MS builds, or who was planning on selling one pre-patch.
Don't like the changes? Sell your MS! Oh wait, Nozh told everyone they'll be cut in value by 40%, even though that's not been finalized. Good luck selling one now!
I don't know who you are or why you're messing with what was one of the few uncontroversially good aspects of Dominion. But you should back off these changes ASAP. You should also gain a basic understanding of economics/public relations, given how much chaos your lil post there just created.
I don't even fly a supercap, and GS isn't exactly a supercap heavy alliance, but your pro-move stealth nerf and followup nightmare post is infuriating in and of itself. In fact, I'm so annoyed, I'm dropping my posting gimmick to point out how monumentally poorly judged this is.
I would make another post...but this post sums up my thoughts better then I can at the moment as I'm so furious I cannot see straight.
Therefore, I will simply quote this post and use the opportunity to yet again say CCP, WTF ARE YOU THINKING?
|
Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:21:00 -
[232]
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 12/11/2009 16:17:46 Another seriouspost: What on earth is going on in your dev environment when you assign a team of random devs to re-do the already completed/settled work of a previous team?
The primary reason why the nullsec playerbase is even vaguely considering the Dominion sov changes in a positive light is because the known architects of the design was /one of us/. Someone we know understands the game and all the things that can go wrong with it. When Soundwave or Abathur mouth off about sov, we can at least know that they understand where we're coming from.
Similarly: the supercapital changes were, until now, designed by someone who flew the damn things extensively, logged many hours pvping in them, and lost a titan to boot. Abathur has cred on supercapital changes. Who are you, Nozh? How many hours have you logged in a supercap? Where does your team's credibility on these new, unasked-for supercapital changes come from?
Leave nullsec and capital changes to devs who actually have some shred of credibility/experience in design.
Empty quoting this.
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Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:22:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Agmar on 12/11/2009 16:22:29 ITT mittens hero-posting
/me prepares to mobilize Petition Legion...
|
mineswallower
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 16:22:00 -
[234]
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 12/11/2009 16:17:46 Another seriouspost: What on earth is going on in your dev environment when you assign a team of random devs to re-do the already completed/settled work of a previous team?
The primary reason why the nullsec playerbase is even vaguely considering the Dominion sov changes in a positive light is because the known architects of the design was /one of us/. Someone we know understands the game and all the things that can go wrong with it. When Soundwave or Abathur mouth off about sov, we can at least know that they understand where we're coming from.
Similarly: the supercapital changes were, until now, designed by someone who flew the damn things extensively, logged many hours pvping in them, and lost a titan to boot. Abathur has cred on supercapital changes. Who are you, Nozh? How many hours have you logged in a supercap? Where does your team's credibility on these new, unasked-for supercapital changes come from?
Leave nullsec and capital changes to devs who actually have some shred of credibility/experience in design.
there is something deeply wrong with CCP when they drive me to the point of agreeing with the mittani who is also prasing the virtues of seleene! This is so f***ed up!
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Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:26:00 -
[235]
good post Mittens
CCP - I fail to see how any commercial body can treat their customers like this. Basically all youve done to MS pilots (and I'm not one) is a giant pump and dump.
Have a look at the market you compete in, lots of very tempting competitors have just been launched or will be soon. I know at least 3 orders that have gone in for SWTOR since Nozh's post.
Just do us all a favour and take Nozh out of the balance team, he clearly hasnt got a clue.
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SigmaPi
Vitharr's Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:28:00 -
[236]
Originally by: mineswallower
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 12/11/2009 16:17:46 Another seriouspost: What on earth is going on in your dev environment when you assign a team of random devs to re-do the already completed/settled work of a previous team?
The primary reason why the nullsec playerbase is even vaguely considering the Dominion sov changes in a positive light is because the known architects of the design was /one of us/. Someone we know understands the game and all the things that can go wrong with it. When Soundwave or Abathur mouth off about sov, we can at least know that they understand where we're coming from.
Similarly: the supercapital changes were, until now, designed by someone who flew the damn things extensively, logged many hours pvping in them, and lost a titan to boot. Abathur has cred on supercapital changes. Who are you, Nozh? How many hours have you logged in a supercap? Where does your team's credibility on these new, unasked-for supercapital changes come from?
Leave nullsec and capital changes to devs who actually have some shred of credibility/experience in design.
there is something deeply wrong with CCP when they drive me to the point of agreeing with the mittani who is also prasing the virtues of seleene! This is so f***ed up!
I lol'd... and I agree 100%. --------------------- SigmaPi
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Angel HUN
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:29:00 -
[237]
Mittens, we were both at that panel. I agree with you entirely. I walked out of that panel excited... Now its just wtf.
Yes. IT agreeing with you.
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:30:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Umberto Tann
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451 if even HALF the people here complaining about the change, and subsequently threatening to cancel their accounts, actually followed through on their threats...CCP would have something to be worried about.
the problem is, this happens before EVERYmajor patch. Some huge change hits and people cry. Remember the ship HP buff? how about Nano-nerf? Now Moms are being changed in a way adverse to what you all might want, and here we are, a thread full of whiney babies.
You dont like it, dont play....but as far as I can see, 9k DPS out of a mothership is pretty beefy. Quit your raging and either take it like a man/woman...or quit like you say you will.
Losing 2/3rds of a multi billion costing ship, and i should take it like a man? This is not like a nano nerf.
do you want a refund on your battleships when the trit prices plummet too? things change. CCP isng going to "refund" people who spent the old price on the ship. At the time you bought your ship, you pid what it was worth in that market. Now you're upset because someone is going to be able to buy the same ship for less. Boy I hope you dont go to your supermarket and cry that you were 2 weeks late to the sales week...
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:30:00 -
[239]
Originally by: SteelHelix Personally I am a big fan of launching 20 drones but I can kind of understand why you want to limit the amount of Fighter Bombers on the field so instead of limiting the number of drones a SC can launch why not instead limit it by the bandwidth it has available. I mean a FB uses 500mBit/s while everything else is 25mBit/s and lower so setting the Super Carriers available bandwidth to 5000mBit/s will still allow 20 of everything but FB's which will be limited to 10 due to bandwidth. This will also require modifying the Drone Control Unit to not only +1 drone number but also add 500mBit/s Bandwidth.
So in summary:
- Reduce available bandwidth on SC to 5000
- Change the Drone Control unit bonus to +1 drone and +500mBit/s bandwidth
- Change the SC drone bonus back to +3 per level
This will have the main effect of allowing a lvl 5 carrier character to still fly 20 fighters or drones but only 10 Fighter Bombers because of the bandwidth limitation.
This I can live with and is reasonable.. 20 FB is all fairness quite alot of DPS. But as I have said earlier.. reducing the cost???? I feel shafted for quite a few ISK
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:33:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
Originally by: Umberto Tann
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451 if even HALF the people here complaining about the change, and subsequently threatening to cancel their accounts, actually followed through on their threats...CCP would have something to be worried about.
the problem is, this happens before EVERYmajor patch. Some huge change hits and people cry. Remember the ship HP buff? how about Nano-nerf? Now Moms are being changed in a way adverse to what you all might want, and here we are, a thread full of whiney babies.
You dont like it, dont play....but as far as I can see, 9k DPS out of a mothership is pretty beefy. Quit your raging and either take it like a man/woman...or quit like you say you will.
Losing 2/3rds of a multi billion costing ship, and i should take it like a man? This is not like a nano nerf.
do you want a refund on your battleships when the trit prices plummet too? things change. CCP isng going to "refund" people who spent the old price on the ship. At the time you bought your ship, you pid what it was worth in that market. Now you're upset because someone is going to be able to buy the same ship for less. Boy I hope you dont go to your supermarket and cry that you were 2 weeks late to the sales week...
Go back under your bridge troll.
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starliight
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:34:00 -
[241]
Gj ccp way to totaly trash sc's so now unless we have fighter bombers out we do EXACTLY the same dps as a carrier...it just costs 10x the price for it. and thats assuming you can even get fb's on field or an assault frig isnt just insta poping them every time you you try to launch them or assuming that the target dosent have a smart bomb......wich it will, so remind me again why sc's will ever see the field becase i really dont think they ever will in a fleet engagement.
If the feed back from this thread isnt enought for you ccp to see your horrible mistake here than i think you need to realvualte how many accounts will close over this
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CCP StevieSG
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:34:00 -
[242]
Hello everyone. While we appreciate that this thread is generating quite a bit of feedback we would ask that your responses be polite and respectful. Please note that any posts which break the forum rules may result in a warning or ban. Thank you. |
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Enosh Kerrim
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:36:00 -
[243]
cant find the right words..... oh wait **** Off CCP
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:36:00 -
[244]
nice of you to repond to this thread with subtle threats about banning
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Angel HUN
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:37:00 -
[245]
It would be nice to have someone say, the devs that actually hosted the FF panel, respond as to why these changes are going in. That panel was pretty much the highlight of FF. It was incredibly constructive, and very exciting. What happened.
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New ones
Caldari Koln united
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:42:00 -
[246]
Hope some one getts fired for this.
13 bil is a ****load of isk, now you are just gona nerf it?
To zero?
The changes you had 1 week ago where perfect! not a single player complained about it!
You just upsett a ****load of players.
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Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Hellstrome Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:42:00 -
[247]
Edited by: Mashashige on 12/11/2009 16:43:38
Originally by: CCP StevieSG Hello everyone. While we appreciate that this thread is generating quite a bit of feedback we would ask that your responses be polite and respectful. Please note that any posts which break the forum rules may result in a warning or ban. Thank you.
Two questions love:
1. Since Moms are shiit now, can you be my special "mom"? (think about it in a stalker type sexual deviant voice)
2. Since you guys obviously knew this was going to come, wouldn't have been easier to announce it first before trying to stealth nerf? Or maybe not trying to quiet the fires by s silly 10 lines p. bad PR/whatever post? Or maybe thinking about the changes you make instead of doing **** on a limb and then rolling them back after all hell breaks lose and you have a 50 page whine threadnought? (we all know you'll roll them back btw ).
Regardless, atleast its never around dull around here eh?
Edit: You removed my troll?!?!?!? bastards. =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
Nikita Alterana
Gallente Clearly Compensating Da Orkz
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:43:00 -
[248]
Originally by: CCP StevieSG Hello everyone. While we appreciate that this thread is generating quite a bit of feedback we would ask that your responses be polite and respectful. Please note that any posts which break the forum rules may result in a warning or ban. Thank you.
lol at CCP throwing Stevie at the thread for damage control. __________________________________________________ All Glory to the Goat Gods! |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:44:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
do you want a refund on your battleships when the trit prices plummet too? things change. CCP isng going to "refund" people who spent the old price on the ship. At the time you bought your ship, you pid what it was worth in that market. Now you're upset because someone is going to be able to buy the same ship for less. Boy I hope you dont go to your supermarket and cry that you were 2 weeks late to the sales week...
Nice troll, but a little applied logic makes you look very silly indeed.
You see, trit prices fluctuate due to supply and demand, it is sold for what the player believes is a fair price for his mining efforts, and ties in with the player driven sandbox environment. This change however has nothing to do with the sandbox, nothing to do with the players... It is simply CCP doing something, for some reason which no-one can quite figure out.
I seem to remember CCP unplugging snake implants from peoples heads in the nano nerf, because the nature of the changes directly affected their usefullness. It's not entirely unreasonable to expect the same this time around. I'd wager that there are far fewer supercap pilots to reimburse now, than there were snake pilots back then.
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karttoon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:45:00 -
[250]
Oh god. I was called a troll when I previously suggested that CCP had no clue what they were attempting to change with Dominion, and still didn't have things figured out beyond conceptual ideas before fan fest. If you want to make a gimped version of the MS, then release a new capital hull at the costs you posted.
With all of these last minute off the top of your head design changes, how the hell do you expect to release completely new game mechanics in 2 weeks and not expect everything to break horribly? Have you even figured out how to do this yet?
CCP Management: If by this time your team hasn't figured out essentials like the new supercapital mechanics, or painfully analyzed and tested the new sovereignty mechanics, you need to accept your failure to plan properly and delay the implementation date of this patch. Your staff has evidently dropped the ball here, and letting them proceed with significant changes like this half-assed will probably be the second most embarrassing thing your company has done. Stop putting people in charge of making critical decisions on mechanics changes that do not have a clue how your our is played.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:46:00 -
[251]
Hello everyone,
Before you all start getting on Stevie's back over her post let me just clarify that you are well within your rights to use this thread to post constructive feedback. Posting flaming or trolling comments is not in keeping with the forum rules and any such posts may result in a warning or ban.
No one is saying not to express your opinion or provide feedback, but please do it within the rules of this forum. Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:46:00 -
[252]
Originally by: kapten sortebil
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 12/11/2009 16:17:46 Another seriouspost: What on earth is going on in your dev environment when you assign a team of random devs to re-do the already completed/settled work of a previous team?
The primary reason why the nullsec playerbase is even vaguely considering the Dominion sov changes in a positive light is because the known architects of the design was /one of us/. Someone we know understands the game and all the things that can go wrong with it. When Soundwave or Abathur mouth off about sov, we can at least know that they understand where we're coming from.
Similarly: the supercapital changes were, until now, designed by someone who flew the damn things extensively, logged many hours pvping in them, and lost a titan to boot. Abathur has cred on supercapital changes. Who are you, Nozh? How many hours have you logged in a supercap? Where does your team's credibility on these new, unasked-for supercapital changes come from?
Leave nullsec and capital changes to devs who actually have some shred of credibility/experience in design.
Actaly agreeing with Mittani
Also actually agreeing with Mittani, what has this world come to??
CCP, please stop letting developers who don't even play the game make major balance changes. The fact that you think DCUs on a carrier/mothership are in any way a good idea would be hilarious if not for the fact that you seem to be determined to balance motherships around such a stupid fitting choice. -----------
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Angel HUN
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:47:00 -
[253]
Originally by: karttoon Oh god. I was called a troll when I previously suggested that CCP had no clue what they were attempting to change with Dominion, and still didn't have things figured out beyond conceptual ideas before fan fest. If you want to make a gimped version of the MS, then release a new capital hull at the costs you posted.
With all of these last minute off the top of your head design changes, how the hell do you expect to release completely new game mechanics in 2 weeks and not expect everything to break horribly? Have you even figured out how to do this yet?
CCP Management: If by this time your team hasn't figured out essentials like the new supercapital mechanics, or painfully analyzed and tested the new sovereignty mechanics, you need to accept your failure to plan properly and delay the implementation date of this patch. Your staff has evidently dropped the ball here, and letting them proceed with significant changes like this half-assed will probably be the second most embarrassing thing your company has done. Stop putting people in charge of making critical decisions on mechanics changes that do not have a clue how your our is played.
Agreeing with Mittani was bad enough.. But well, Nice post Karttoon.
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Julia Logalus
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:47:00 -
[254]
If this won't be changed back to the way abathur was heading with the proper change to isk worth spending on the ship and not docking witha ship that can only do same DPS as a carrier why even bother at all? I just wasted 14 bil isk in buying a mom which is currently in production. This means if the changes go on like this I will have bought a ship which could have been 40% of the current cost, is totally useless in terms of combat and last but not least I will be stuck in it.
So thinking about this I am shafted in multiple ways for being prepared for the next patch.
So in short: If this doesn't change back at least 75% towards the way Abathur announced this it will be -5 accounts for me. I qill quit this game over this in a blink. What the F are you thinking disregarding all the work that Abathur did so far where players were so excited about and actually brought players back to play the game again... Go think!
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:49:00 -
[255]
You know what really gets me CCP. I really do love EvE. I've been playing for a bit over 3 years and I'm probably one of the youngest pilots(not alt) that this effects. No matter what else is out I always have eve that is my primary game. FFS CoD: MW2 came out on Teusday. I went to the midnight release but I still spent more time on eve than on MW2 this week. If changes like this keep rolling out, I'm not sure how much more I can take before I say **** it. I'd like to think I'd stick around but all this crap is getting a bit tiresome.
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Ridjeck Thome
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:55:00 -
[256]
Can I ask CCP to let us know when the changes are final please?.
This will allow me (hopefully) to self-destruct my mothership and get the basic 40% insurance back (more than the new mini-mom cost I bet).
I'll then be able to cancel my mom account and move the character onto another account and run level 4s in empire!
win all round eh?
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:55:00 -
[257]
I was going to leave this thread alone, but with Stevie's post, napalm just got tossed on it. This thread is going to get completely out of hand now, an entirely predictable outcome.
If you are CCP employee reading this, do not dismiss the thread due to the rage involved. Why?
NozH's post made every MS pilot immediately lose approximately 4-5 billion isk in net worth on the current market. If you believe that the pilots impacted by this will be capable of replying to this thread with graphs, charts, hard numbers or 'rational discussion', well... perhaps you should investigate basic human psychology some.
An average MS costs ~14b in mineral cost on the market, if a pilot is lucky enough to have one build at cost by an alliance rather than paying a premium on the open market. Let's ballpark MS cost and say 15b to account for a mix of 'at cost' and 'premium' buyers.
So their 15b ship is now predicted by the market to be worth 9b (15b cut by 40%) in about two weeks. 6 billion isk vanished with one poorly-thought out CCP NozH post.
Therefore, when you ask yourselves, 'Why are these players so angry, posting with such rage, and uniting with their sworn enemies over this issue', consider that for 6 billion lost isk, you could buy about 20 PLEX cards.
You'd be ****ed, too, if someone just robbed you of 300 bucks.
Ciao, thread!
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:56:00 -
[258]
Originally by: karttoon Edited by: karttoon on 12/11/2009 16:52:50 Oh god. I was called a troll when I previously suggested that CCP had no clue what they were attempting to change with Dominion, and still didn't have things figured out beyond conceptual ideas before fan fest. If you want to make a gimped version of the MS, then release a new capital hull at the costs you posted.
With all of these last minute off the top of your head design changes, how the hell do you expect to release completely new game mechanics in 2 weeks and not expect everything to break horribly? Have you even figured out how to do this yet?
CCP Management: If by this time your team hasn't figured out essentials like the new supercapital mechanics, or painfully analyzed and tested the new sovereignty mechanics, you need to accept your failure to plan properly and delay the implementation date of this patch. Your staff has evidently dropped the ball here, and letting them proceed with significant changes like this half-assed will probably be the second most embarrassing thing your company has done. Stop putting people in charge of making critical decisions on mechanics changes that do not have a clue how our game is played.
Tbh, I thought you were trolling before, but it appears that you couldn't be more right.
P.S. who could blame me for thinking a Goon was trolling.
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Shaak Ti
Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:58:00 -
[259]
Fix broken stuff and leave motherships as they are. If you want to create a 5 billion isk supercarrier then design new ships and release them, we never have enough ships in EVE. But stop touching stuff that works and is fun, nobody complained about current motherships.
CCP, you are making people who are building/buying the current motherships VERY disapointed. You are simply wiping out 10b isk(actual motherships = 15b) off the people pokets. Remember that 1b worth ~30Ç with current prices if we talk in PLEXs and some people just bought you ~300Ç in PLEXs to own a mothership.
Please, NO.
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:58:00 -
[260]
Originally by: sg3s Hmmmmm, OK, lets try this. How would you guys like it if supercarriers go back to what they are now, except the HP boost that can stay or titans are gonna have a fun time.
So no fighter bombers, high costs, but +3 fighters per lvl etc.
Would that be better?
Nerfs that offset buffs aren't especially bad.
I'd prefer the xMoms in it's present shape over the combined changes (+hp, introduction of fighter bombers, cheaper build, 10 drones etc).
Motherships were supposed to get a 'buff' since they were considered weak in their current state. The new state is gonna make them weaker. Now you go figure where that puts them? I bought mine primarily for logistic purposes, but let's break it down in different regards;
Logistic? It's no buffs, clone vat is gone, 10 drones, everything makes it worse. Combat? Introduction of more damage, that actually deals less damage then regular drones/fighters vs all non-caps. High slots that already are too few are supposed to try squeeze in DCU's? The ship is worse off. Jumpwise? Dockwise? Same as before. Vulnerability to tackle? ALOT worse off, and this was one of the major weaknesses that needed a buff in the first place..
The only thing that is better now is that the HP buff and cheap price means that certain big spaceholding alliances can spam these and have a huge RR ewar immune RR setup camping systems. Blob boost!
So yeah, I'd rather keep them as they are over these changes. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
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Fleur D'oranger
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Posted - 2009.11.12 16:59:00 -
[261]
You know, I've been playing MMOs about 10 years now and if I had an isk for every emorage "ima quit with my 20 accounts" post I've ever seen, I could own a fleet of these.
This isn't going to ruin the game. It effects, what? 1% of the player base, if that?
This doesn't ruin the ship. It does make it less of a solo pwnmobile, but then there aren't supposed to be any of those.
As I see it, these changes are right in line with the overall direction of Dominion, which is to reduce the gap between the haves and the have nots which has become so polarized that the end-game is getting stagnant.
If Dominion does what the devs envision, which is to reduce the amount of mega-power-block blob fests and instigate more frequent, smaller scale conflicts between powers who only hold a constellation or two, these are still going to be very powerful in that kind of theater. A half-dozen of them RRing each other while camping a Sov marker is going to be pretty damn tough for a local power to counter.
If you speculated on buying one before the changes were final, you gambled on being the first in your block, and lost. Boo-Hoo. If you don't like the way the class is being repositioned, Leeroy yours against the enemy of your choice, collect your insurance, and get on with life.
CCP has always been a fire..aim..aim..aim..aim..aim. kind of organization. Yeah, there are blunders that have to get fixed, but year after year, the game keeps getting better, and the player base keeps getting bigger. Outside of WoW, no other MMO in existance can make either of those claims.
Take your meds, get some fresh air or God forbid a little exercise, and you'll feel better. The sky is not falling.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:00:00 -
[262]
So we should just all petition now to get our moms/scs docked to reprocess them? Thats the least they can do
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Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Hellstrome Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:01:00 -
[263]
Wait what? How is using a joke CCP Claw used in the freaking alliance tourneys vs thousands, in a sarcastic manner, consider a bad post that needs to be deleted?
Dude, you guys are fascists!!!!!
p.s dont taze me bro? =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
ViRUS Pottage
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:01:00 -
[264]
Very stupid change.
To people complaining that they bought a SC/Training for SC/Bought a new account for SC, then it's your own fault.
Things change, just because it's on the test server, doesn't mean it will get to TQ, so it's your fault for trying to buy 1 early.
But still, very stupid change CCP. ___________
Originally by: CCP Taera May I have your stuff?
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Sea Gate
Caldari Sea Gate Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:02:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Julia Logalus it will be -5 accounts for me. I qill quit this game over this in a blink.
3 accounts for me, 4 on a friend, 2 on my brothers
Not a threat, just eve is heading in a direction that is no longer fun. And a year of training +16b down the drain is not fun.
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Glassback
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:04:00 -
[266]
What an utter load of crap. *******s to these ****ing changes, ccp you awfull ****s.
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Jula fo'machid
Atlas Holdings Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:04:00 -
[267]
This is totally out of control Now!
Serious!!
Create a new Ship class instead if you want a middle role super Caps.. you canÆt just change a ship to more than half its value and think everyone will be fine with it!
Then why donÆt you just change all Dreadnoughts to a Battleship while youÆre on it?
You apparently donÆt want to manage EVE anymore it seems, as if you continue like this, many Players will quit this badly handled Game regarding recent changes.
This must END Now!
Jula FoÆmachid
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Pradege D'Hallur
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:05:00 -
[268]
Just when you thought the patch could not get an worse...........
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Shaak Ti
Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:05:00 -
[269]
Star Wars Galaxies syndrome in my EVE
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:06:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Pradege D'Hallur Just when you thought the patch could not get an worse...........
indeed
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:06:00 -
[271]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
That we all know, and no one dispute that fact. But dont forget who pays your paycheck.
But when thats said.. you intentionally got you custumers all excited about this much needed buff, and people reacted accordingly.. used isk on getting the ships, getting the skills in order, and praiseing you guys for actually going forward with a buff that was much needed.. and 2 weeks before release you cut those very people off by the knees.. Keep the build cost up as it is now, and reduce fighterbombers to 10, but keep 20 fighters for sup-cap work. I think most can accpet that.
And all talk about DCU.. I'd would never use a DCU on a carrier, let alone a "supercarrier". You need those slots for RR and neuts. Not some silly module like a drone control unit.
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Corvac
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:07:00 -
[272]
Confirming that my 7 accounts are now canceled.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:08:00 -
[273]
I'm really shaking my head over this one CCP. Your customers loved the changes to motherships (cept the name change) I for one began piling away isk right after my dread got BBQed by two of them on Singularity.
This was exactly what the Eve endgame needed. A high risk ship capable of big payoff if deployed correctly against enemy capitals. I don't think Ive read one person complaining about the changes since they were announced.
What is wrong with you CCP? Is it so hard for you to listen to your customers and give them what they want?
Motherships were part of the silver lining on the huge turd that the Dominion expansion is becoming. Had I already bought my MS, I really think I would cancel my accounts and write off Eve as a lost cause over this one.
Colonies and Capitals |
Chagaline
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:09:00 -
[274]
Fleur D'oranger your just not very bright sorry.
you try losing 10billion just with a silly lil nerf. as i said before, marked mechanics can cause that, fair enough, but not freakin game mechanics. I spend most of my time in eve last 1+ to get this Mom, and i do nothing else, and now i just lose 10 bill....cmon..
not even to mention how useless the ship will be, and how far away it is what they talkedabout innitially=(
and yes im also closing my 4 accounts, 100%.
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Tremolo Taak
Faction Fighters INC
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:11:00 -
[275]
It would be funny if CCP acctually took some time, sat down, and played their own game. Feels like this new buff was something they just said at fanfest to get ppl happy. Now when it comes down to it, its just "nah cant do that, too mutch load on the servers". Well, then ban all the f-ing macro's that should relese some load. Dont pull back what seemd to be one of the better patches in this game. ---Never confse the size of your paypacket with the size of your talent--- |
Miza Eshkel
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:12:00 -
[276]
Edited by: Miza Eshkel on 12/11/2009 17:13:52
Originally by: CCP Navigator Posting flaming or trolling comments is allowed, go go go
Mother****ers deleted my post, it was not a flame, it was my ****ing opinion, moron.
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Jade Gunsmith
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:13:00 -
[277]
This would be a great time for someone from Community to run around the office, find Nozh and tell him it might be a really good idea to clarify his post before it gets out of hand.
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Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:13:00 -
[278]
10 pages and 1 GM/DEV answer.
btw, if you think this was Seleene's doing, you're dumber than the actual Dev that did.
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Mr Bright
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:14:00 -
[279]
Hahahaha CCP gj gj... "CCP announces mothership buff - Tons of players buy motherships." "CCP announces _HUGE_ Mothership nerf and ****'s over everyone that bought motherships."
Talk about a slap in the face.
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Seth Rock
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:15:00 -
[280]
You've obviously never ****in played the game if you think this is a good change. I was actually excited about the changes but this is just stupid. Don't "fix" what wasn't broke and was going to be a good change for motherships.
I detect a goon/pl/it/-a-/all of eve threadnaught inbound. You should REALLY consult with people who have actually played the game before you go and make retarted changes like this. _________________________________________
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The Kan
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:16:00 -
[281]
ccp it's not funny, you deleted my previous post? lmao
anyway, im not gonna quit my 4 acc's, no point in doing that because I LOVE THIS GAME but honestly, you screwing up TOO MUTCH.
you want constructive feedback? ways to improve?
ROLL THIS CRAP BACK
there. you cant have better feedback than this.
now, fire this moron who came up with this... now!!
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mtoneill
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:17:00 -
[282]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions Thank you.
Too funny. I think ultimately the community makes all the decisions? Isn't that what customers do?
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Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:18:00 -
[283]
Originally by: mtoneill
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions Thank you.
Too funny. I think ultimately the community makes all the decisions? Isn't that what customers do?
He's talking about Stevie and himself. Don't blame the CCP Community people. Blame Nozh. He wants to kill Smurfs.
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Lialem
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:19:00 -
[284]
You can ****ing assign fighter bombers to your ceptors, with almost no risk to lose the mothership, why you whine??????? Can you assign a dread???????????
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:21:00 -
[285]
You can assign fighters, not bombers unless that has changed. The Light in the Darkness
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1Of9
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:22:00 -
[286]
CCP here's some feedback:
FIRE THIS GUY WHO CAME UP WITH THIS also ROLLBACK
do this 2 simple steps, problem fixed.
costumers happy again
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:22:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Soi Mala on 12/11/2009 17:23:20
Originally by: lialem You can ****ing assign fighter bombers to your ceptors, with almost no risk to lose the mothership, why you whine??????? Can you assign a dread???????????
You're gonna need at least 3 more question marks before i take your post seriously.
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Knocturnal
I.M.M Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:22:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Lialem You can ****ing assign fighter bombers to your ceptors, with almost no risk to lose the mothership, why you whine??????? Can you assign a dread???????????
Carriers can do this aswell.. why get a SC then... Just to sit with it at a post? Signature removed for inappropriate language. Zymurgist. |
Lord Helghast
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:23:00 -
[289]
i love the fact they say "but you can assign with the carrier/sc" ya, but u can also smart bomb the damn fighters and leave the sc as a 15b ISK hunk of metal, i mean really this seems odd, to equate less than a dread you have to drop all its highs for dcu's and leave 0 for anything else? Wow this supercarriers sounding less super and more like the old MOM, and the cost reduction is really a b*tch slap to all those people that listened and watched the capital discussions with the devs and all the talk and watch on ccp that did drop ~15b on a SC because they were meant to be very nice and useful and worth the cost, only to have CCP decide to backpedal their usefulness to a ship we'll probably never see in usage and drop the cost so that those that did buy based on what was known are now screwed out of billions in isk
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Pedron Niaal
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:23:00 -
[290]
I can only support my preposters, there are not enough ships in this game yet, so why not create one for your "new capital killer ship".
Motherships are the biggest ships before you fly a Titan, so its quite the last step to "Endgame". Now you reduce their value to nearly nothing in the case of long-term training and long-term Asset acquiring.
Before players decide to go for a certain ship it needs lots of time, so people who started half a year ago to train for it, to know it will be worth it are now paying in ISK and training time.
The changes you had on SISI were quite interesting and in combination with Titan Changes improving the game, even if lots of people have to adapt. This way now, its totally changing a ships role, which was called "Mothership". Now it is not a "Supercarrier", its just a larger dread which is mobile (as you still need some time to kill the enemy capital you wont move for 10 minutes either, which is a siege cycle).
Maybe rethink what you have planned for an addon before you change another thing completely - see sov changes etc.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:23:00 -
[291]
CCP I cannot stress enough how much you are messing up with Dominion. I am pleading as someone that loves this game and would like to stay in it for years to come to re-think these decisions. Please push back the release of Dominion for more testing and more thought. I am seriously contemplating why I should continue to play this game any longer. It would be fair to say that I am not the only one. I am trying to keep my cool and be constructive but this is really testing my limits. I wish CCP was a publicly traded company because I would organize the players to create a fund to buy enough market shares to oust the people that are ruining this game. Perhaps I am left with canceling my subscriptions and just move onto to a new MMO and hope ill have better luck there.
I promise you you will regret that you are inept at listening to your customers. Ball is in your court CCP your in a game of chicken with your subscriber base once the gaming community deems Eve as terrible its all over. Im not swerving so ball is in your court. ______________________________
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:24:00 -
[292]
Building my mothership now feels like a massive waste of time. And I cannot even refine it anymore I seriously hope someone just ****ed up there and that this is not intentional. Why even bother flying anything else but a frickin dread that is as much fun and skill as using a toaster
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14Day Trail
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:25:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous CCP I cannot stress enough how much you are messing up with Dominion. I am pleading as someone that loves this game and would like to stay in it for years to come to re-think these decisions. Please push back the release of Dominion for more testing and more thought. I am seriously contemplating why I should continue to play this game any longer. It would be fair to say that I am not the only one. I am trying to keep my cool and be constructive but this is really testing my limits. I wish CCP was a publicly traded company because I would organize the players to create a fund to buy enough market shares to oust the people that are ruining this game. Perhaps I am left with canceling my subscriptions and just move onto to a new MMO and hope ill have better luck there.
I promise you you will regret that you are inept at listening to your customers. Ball is in your court CCP your in a game of chicken with your subscriber base once the gaming community deems Eve as terrible its all over. Im not swerving so ball is in your court.
+1
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Mr Bright
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:25:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Kel Arkir Building my mothership now feels like a massive waste of time. And I cannot even refine it anymore I seriously hope someone just ****ed up there and that this is not intentional. Why even bother flying anything else but a frickin dread that is as much fun and skill as using a toaster
Dont be knocking on toasters, they require some pretty hefty timing bro.
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Jessica Maresh
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:25:00 -
[295]
To the nubcakes who are saying "WHY YOU WHINE ETC ETC???" why dont you be quiet, and perharps understand why ms pilots are ****ed about this.
Its because of the time and investment currently needed to get one, Not only has it taken years of training isk gathering etc. So you see, This is basically CCP saying:
"Ok we listen to the bears who cry and the supercap wannabes and nerf it"
CCP, why do you need to change motherships? seriously, Not only do you nerf the titan (yes it is a nerf, you wanna get rid of blobs or not?) now you nerf motherships (no im not calling it a supercarrier).
Im sure you have your reasons, just please, consider OTHER options rather than reducing the amount of fighters, there are alot of good ideas here. Dont shun them out.
/me rant over.
ahhh that felt better
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Cuisinar
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:25:00 -
[296]
stupid ccp!! stupid
cancel this changes before it's too late.
you dont really have a clue how hard is it to build this ships do you? not everyone have acess to moongoo to pay for them, some people actually have to WORK hard to get one, to be stuck in the damn coffin, since they cant put it somewhere completly safe, cant dock, cant do crap and now cant even use it because *loool* drone units *loool*
get real!!
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Saimedai
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:26:00 -
[297]
You guys are seriously bad at public relations. Might want to work on that.
See... Constructive.
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Knocturnal
I.M.M Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:27:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Pedron Niaal I can only support my preposters, there are not enough ships in this game yet, so why not create one for your "new capital killer ship".
Motherships are the biggest ships before you fly a Titan, so its quite the last step to "Endgame". Now you reduce their value to nearly nothing in the case of long-term training and long-term Asset acquiring.
Before players decide to go for a certain ship it needs lots of time, so people who started half a year ago to train for it, to know it will be worth it are now paying in ISK and training time.
The changes you had on SISI were quite interesting and in combination with Titan Changes improving the game, even if lots of people have to adapt. This way now, its totally changing a ships role, which was called "Mothership". Now it is not a "Supercarrier", its just a larger dread which is mobile (as you still need some time to kill the enemy capital you wont move for 10 minutes either, which is a siege cycle).
Maybe rethink what you have planned for an addon before you change another thing completely - see sov changes etc.
Seems like nothing of this matters to ccp ... as long as they can rip of the $$ of people they do ever ******ed thing they can think off with this game. Signature removed for inappropriate language. Zymurgist. |
Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:27:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous CCP I cannot stress enough how much you are messing up with Dominion. I am pleading as someone that loves this game and would like to stay in it for years to come to re-think these decisions. Please push back the release of Dominion for more testing and more thought. I am seriously contemplating why I should continue to play this game any longer. It would be fair to say that I am not the only one. I am trying to keep my cool and be constructive but this is really testing my limits. I wish CCP was a publicly traded company because I would organize the players to create a fund to buy enough market shares to oust the people that are ruining this game. Perhaps I am left with canceling my subscriptions and just move onto to a new MMO and hope ill have better luck there.
I promise you you will regret that you are inept at listening to your customers. Ball is in your court CCP your in a game of chicken with your subscriber base once the gaming community deems Eve as terrible its all over. Im not swerving so ball is in your court.
+2
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:28:00 -
[300]
Nozh's excuse for the nerf was they wanted a ship to kill MOVING capitals. I sense a slight flaw with idea as during a capital fight...get this...NO ONE IS ****ING MOVING. If you actually played your game you would realize that the role you're trying to fill doesn't exist.
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Starxplorer
Gallente The Circle Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:28:00 -
[301]
CCP this is a alt. i got this char to fly my mothership and i been doing so for ALLMOST 2 years.
problem is, i BARELY play at all because this ship is useless as it is today.
what you want to do is simply forcing me to SELF DESTRUCT before dominion because no way in hell im going to keep paying a account TO BE OFFLINE because some stupid ass dev came up with a brain emorage.
remove this changes!!!!
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nianra
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:31:00 -
[302]
I don't fly capitals, i cannot fly them :) but anyways.
I do believe that Titans are now much less useful as they are not even able to kill stupid people, they will have only a few kills in their entire existence and those kills will most likely not be as expensive as the titan itself in the first place. It could've happened if Motherships (Let's all protest against that "Supercapital" name) would acutally be used against titans. Wich is obviously not going to be the case.
btw: while reading this post it increased by one page :p
anyways i wonder what will happen if the patch gets delayed, i am sure alot of alliances planned an invasion in December :p
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:31:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Soi Mala
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
do you want a refund on your battleships when the trit prices plummet too? things change. CCP isng going to "refund" people who spent the old price on the ship. At the time you bought your ship, you pid what it was worth in that market. Now you're upset because someone is going to be able to buy the same ship for less. Boy I hope you dont go to your supermarket and cry that you were 2 weeks late to the sales week...
Nice troll, but a little applied logic makes you look very silly indeed.
You see, trit prices fluctuate due to supply and demand, it is sold for what the player believes is a fair price for his mining efforts, and ties in with the player driven sandbox environment. This change however has nothing to do with the sandbox, nothing to do with the players... It is simply CCP doing something, for some reason which no-one can quite figure out.
I seem to remember CCP unplugging snake implants from peoples heads in the nano nerf, because the nature of the changes directly affected their usefullness. It's not entirely unreasonable to expect the same this time around. I'd wager that there are far fewer supercap pilots to reimburse now, than there were snake pilots back then.
except the prices fluctuated because ccp directly boosted the spwan rate of veldspar.
and OH GOD what has ccp done, almost everyone agreeing with mittens. (or perhaps even more surprising, mittens seriously posting)
if anything keep super carriers as initially proposed, and wait for whine threads about them being over powered.
if anything think of poor chribba, he will only be able to use 10 mining drones
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Buxaroo
Gallente The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:31:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 12/11/2009 15:34:36 And THIS dear friends is why a man with a spreadsheet should not be given a job to 'balance' something only the most experienced players in the game fly.
Nozh If you are SO confident that your decision is right, give us the option to reprocess them into components at our nearest empire hangar as part of the startup for Dominion and let us decide for ourselves.
Myn
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I want my ****ing 2 months of game play back from grinding to get the mothership after going on test server making me decide that the ship was ACTUALLY worth flying. I want to dock BEFORE patch day and reprocess the piece of **** ship. Or, I want to be able to DOCK and INSURE the piece of **** ship and SELF DESTRUCT it so I can at least get my isk back that I just wasted for nothing.
See, I came to this game after SOE anal ****d Star Wars Galaxies with the NGE and I posted on the forums that if they didn't change the game to where it was I would quit and never look back. And I did. Well right now I am in the same position as I was then. Once I make a decision, I don't look back. Never. Either give us mothership pilots, and ESPECIALLY those who bought one AFTER the initial test server buff, a way to get our isk back. There is NO excuse to massively **** us in the ass like this. I have been the biggest CCP fanboy sense I came to this game. But that has all changed with this **** up you call Dominion.
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The Kan
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:31:00 -
[305]
CCP 1 more thing:
if you keep this changes, mark my words: I WILL SELF DESTRUCT. i do not want to keep paying a account to be OFFLINE all the time, day and night.
i simply refuse to do that anymore.
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Skags
Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:32:00 -
[306]
This make me feel almost as good as the medical reform in the USLike obama attacking almost 66% of his voting base with this reform you guys have attacked an up and coming player base that would bring some more fun to this game and slapped them all.
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:38:00 -
[307]
Funny sidenote, in an all out escape situation, the survivability due to no 20 heavy ECM drones at disposal is even lower than it is *now* even with the HP boost.
Hell, for a long time I thought Fighterbombers are not assignable so Motherships are actually forced to engage in battle and you know, maybe loose it.........
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nilie
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:39:00 -
[308]
Originally by: The Kan CCP 1 more thing:
if you keep this changes, mark my words: I WILL SELF DESTRUCT. i do not want to keep paying a account to be OFFLINE all the time, day and night.
i simply refuse to do that anymore.
same
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Angel HUN
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:39:00 -
[309]
Let them dock.
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Ryan Coolness
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:41:00 -
[310]
Still hoping they come to their senses, also feels odd to agree with mittens and kartoon, but these are strange days :P
Anyway provided CCP actually go through with this, the very least they can do is to run a script and give every mom/sc owner the difference in captial components between the current TQ and the new build costs available over the "redeem item" function.
The mechanics for that are in place, it can be easily done, so if they chose to do not even that we probably have to assume they just want to mock mom/sc owners and cheat them out of their considerable investment.
The signal this will send is a pretty bad one, part of fun in eve is working to achieve something be it material or skill wise and if CCP does not reimburse mom/sc owners when they devalue the thing they worked hard to achieve they send a pretty clear signal that working to achive anything in eve is pointless as it will prolly just get devalued at a whim anyway.
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Lialem
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:41:00 -
[311]
We will get supercarrier docking facilities noob, they WILL be able to dock, just not in outposts. Rofl at all those ignorant flamers.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:42:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Angel HUN Let them dock.
Wasnt enough time to work that into the expansion. Which is another reason im pleading for dominion to be pushed back. I can link video clips of the whole excellence vs expedience approach CCP touted during fanfest. Yet here they are contradicting themselves with clear expedience with there action on the sov system and supercapitals. ______________________________
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Angel HUN
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:46:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous
Originally by: Angel HUN Let them dock.
Wasnt enough time to work that into the expansion. Which is another reason im pleading for dominion to be pushed back. I can link video clips of the whole excellence vs expedience approach CCP touted during fanfest. Yet here they are contradicting themselves with clear expedience with there action on the sov system and supercapitals.
I was there :-)
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:46:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Fleur D'oranger You know, I've been playing MMOs about 10 years now and if I had an isk for every emorage "ima quit with my 20 accounts" post I've ever seen, I could own a fleet of these.
This isn't going to ruin the game. It effects, what? 1% of the player base, if that?
This doesn't ruin the ship. It does make it less of a solo pwnmobile, but then there aren't supposed to be any of those.
As I see it, these changes are right in line with the overall direction of Dominion, which is to reduce the gap between the haves and the have nots which has become so polarized that the end-game is getting stagnant.
If Dominion does what the devs envision, which is to reduce the amount of mega-power-block blob fests and instigate more frequent, smaller scale conflicts between powers who only hold a constellation or two, these are still going to be very powerful in that kind of theater. A half-dozen of them RRing each other while camping a Sov marker is going to be pretty damn tough for a local power to counter.
If you speculated on buying one before the changes were final, you gambled on being the first in your block, and lost. Boo-Hoo. If you don't like the way the class is being repositioned, Leeroy yours against the enemy of your choice, collect your insurance, and get on with life.
CCP has always been a fire..aim..aim..aim..aim..aim. kind of organization. Yeah, there are blunders that have to get fixed, but year after year, the game keeps getting better, and the player base keeps getting bigger. Outside of WoW, no other MMO in existance can make either of those claims.
Take your meds, get some fresh air or God forbid a little exercise, and you'll feel better. The sky is not falling.
Please stop posting on subjects you clearly have no ****ing clue about. Seriously.
Screw the damn fighter changes that are being made to the ships, they are terrible, but still a lot more usefull than they have ever been. The problem lies within the cost reduction. CCP are trying to get popular by reducing cost of these ships, so that more people can buy and fly them. This is terrible because a) a SC is "special", its not supposed to be in the hands of everyone, and b) people who already own a SC have instantly lost 5-6b.
Try to look a bit further than the tip of your own nose. Thank you.
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Sternin Mantur
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:47:00 -
[315]
PLEASE, someone already fire the guy that is coming up with all this brilliant ideas, and f*ucking hire someone that actually plays the game and knows what spending 15B in a ship is. Also, if he knows this is a game, and not a JOB (to maintain sov), it would be appreciated. THANK YOU.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:47:00 -
[316]
I still want to know how CCP came to the conclusion that S-Carriers were OPed. There was nothing posted about the being OPed after the super cap tests, yet here we are with **** getting nerfed again with no reason.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:47:00 -
[317]
I really feel sorry for you guys and I'm starting to get ****ed off, because CCP is so lazy, that they refuse to make new ships for new roles. Instead they thought it was a better idea to trick their customers to come look at the cute bunnies in the van and instead of having bunnies they jump on them and **** them with a razorblade dildo. Why would they be upset about it?
I love you CCP, but if you were a human, you would have to be put down because your brain doesn't have enough power to keep the body alive.
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:48:00 -
[318]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 12/11/2009 17:54:57
Ok here is my constructive feedback:
This ship is a "supercapital." They thus far have been 16+ billion isk + fittings + fighters which tend to get destroyed and must be replaced. I have invested 30 billion into my ship, and my character has sat at a pos for the last year and a half waiting for the ship to be worthwhile.
Are you going to make up for all the hard work I put into this ship based on your promises to fix it, to improve it and make it better? Are you going to reimburse me?
You have never hit a ship with the nerf bat harder than right now. And for what? Motherships are incapable of combat on live. And this change makes them incapable of combat going forword.
I cannot believe that you have done this change and I'm about to leave eve over it because this is too crushing. Capital combat is what I love to do. And I spent so much time and energy into this ship waiting for the day I could take it out on the field. Now that day won't ever come, and the money I've invested into it is just gone.
You must reconsider. Revert the changes and at least let us play with them on live. If they're overpowered (which they won't be due to the inability to tank anything) nerf em. But for gosh sakes let us have our chance and see!
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:55:00 -
[319]
I buy titan skill books and 2 weeks later massive boost to moms. I then buy a mom and 4 weeks later a massive nerf to moms.
The reduction in build cost is another kick in the face after we were told it was just going to be the removal of the clone vat bay comps. Instead they are going to be worth under a third of what they are now? Thats ridiculous.
Pro tip CCP, no one uses DCUs because they suck and the highs are needed for things like smarties and neuts, unless you start making DCUs to be +5 fighters/bombers each then they still wont get used as you sacrifice too much for them.
Current self destruct payout for Aeon is just over 5.1b.....
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Soldur
Helljumpers
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:55:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk Nozh's excuse for the nerf was they wanted a ship to kill MOVING capitals. I sense a slight flaw with idea as during a capital fight...get this...NO ONE IS ****ING MOVING. If you actually played your game you would realize that the role you're trying to fill doesn't exist.
LOL sadly this is true the servers cant handle it
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Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:56:00 -
[321]
If a MOM is that cheep there will be fleets of 50 MOMs that with Remote reps will tank ANYTHING. Think of a 50 MOM fleet walking through EVE killing all it wants, you wouldnt be able to counter it. EVE 0.0 would die and with it the playerbase -----------------------------------------------
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Shmak DatAsh
Malus Exitium Consortium.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:57:00 -
[322]
I did it cuz Kneto told me to...
Bu srsly! Dont fix wat isnt broken.. fo rizzle!!
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Shiftless
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:57:00 -
[323]
Welp... I was working on a Wyvern. I mean a week ago MS/SC were really nice. Finally useful. Now? With the loss of fighters/fighter-bombers and the associated DPS it just isn't worth it. 5bn or 16bn doesn't matter, they are utterly worthless (still).
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:57:00 -
[324]
If I was Morsus Mihi I'd just, instead of putting 40bil (approx) into a Titan, just bouild 8 supercarriers instead. Spam them to all your Carrier 4+ pilots, and you can field 50 xMoms with 4mil+ hp each. Put some twenty large t2 bubbles on the gates and you have done everything CCP is trying to avoid with these changes;
Cheaper xMoms, ewar immunity, hp buff, it's all promoting blobtactics - and the new sov mechanics is (again) promoting the spaceholding 0.0 blobs that don't try to attack.
I know it's all cool with endgame goals and so, but isn't all these changes to titans to try counter the 'fortress 0.0'? So, you make the xMoms into the new titans (but worse for smaller entities)? WTF is up with the blob and stationary-pvp love? Roaming PvP, aggressive and attacking PvP, shouldn't that be the department that gets love?
Then prices for xMoms need to go up. Then damage should be primary over self-defence (even tho I hate saying that, I don't want mine more vulnerable, but it does make sense). And all the talk about the new x-specific bays (fuel bay, ore bay, etc), shouldn't it be damn easy to make an xMom have a FB-bay that gets max 10, Fighter max 20, and rest drones have a limited amount so the pilot can chose their preferred regular drone setup (diversity)?
I claim here that we'll see NC field more than 50 xMoms in home systems before February. And I claim here that they'll soon be nerfed after that so they get even worse for everyone that isn't blobbing. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Ryan Powers
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:58:00 -
[325]
Nothing "super" about these changes. :[
This may not reach the ridiculous number of pages the sov response thread got, but it's going to be all the 0.0 entities agreeing it's more terrible than Atlas' ability to tackle something.
I'm mainly curious as to the content of the conversation that led to this decision.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:59:00 -
[326]
Now that I'm past the initial rage at CCP for reversing one of the few good things Dominion was bringing, here is some real constructive feedback.
There might be a place in the game for a 5b capital killer but it should not come at the cost of the 15b mothership class.
So do this: Create this 5b ship that is in between Carriers and Motherships. Call them supercarriers. This ship should be able to dock anywhere like a carrier. It should not be fully insurable.
Leave motherships alone and continue to call them motherships. If anything, buff them further and make them more expensive.
Colonies and Capitals |
Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:00:00 -
[327]
Edited by: Jack Sparroxx on 12/11/2009 18:03:45 actually .. this is one thing people have forgotten to talk about.
This is a thought up exsample.
Reducing the cost for a "supercarrier" to lets say 5billion isk will be one of the most game breaking things ever in this game. 5billion is AFFORDBLE for lost of individuals.. Lets scale it up to Alliance lvl. PL could probably afford 50 AEON's no biggie, and god knows they have enough renters in fountain to feed them minerals.
50 AEONS, with +4mill effective armor hitpoint when you use slaves. Thats is 500fightbombers worth of damage plus 200MILLION armor hitpoints.. they are EWAR imune, so they cant be jammed, which mean they can RR armor and cap to each other til the end of days and not give a f.. It will be way more then 200million hitpoint you need to break.. and with 500 fighter bombers, try and dig up a cap fleet that can break that and survive at the same time.
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Kythren
Jelly Baby Corporation Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:02:00 -
[328]
so this is going to be like on every other mmo? people complaining on forums about a stupid decision and devs only give them three posts, one which contains a forum moderator ranting about peoples anger and one from a dev trying to cover the moderators back?
seriously i'm impressed.
on topic: ive seen a lot of people being eager to get a mothership, and along with carrier support they might actually be a good alternative to rr-bs blobbing enemy capitals. but hey that would mean you will need LESS people doing pvp and therefore also less subscriptions. its only "understandable"(its in " because it actually isn't) that ccp does this change, who would want less $$$ in an economic crisis which got your country to run out of money? did you actually buy shares of Iceland already, i bet you could.
PS: to stevieg: images not related to eve in signatures and then there is the part about "personal opinion" i haven't seen that image, but the person would most likely posted it because it actually IS his personal opinion? seriously, how boring can your job be... no u! |
Sir JoJo
Minmatar x13
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:03:00 -
[329]
im just putting my 2 cent, LOL @ all the whine, looks like some great changes, to both moms and titan, looking forward to see suppercarriers getting a real role, as anti capital whit no siege,
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DOARota
Gallente BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:04:00 -
[330]
1)Lure a former SC pilot into the design team. 2)Create several changes within the titan/mothership classes to render them useful. 3)Convince the player base to fight through lag on sisi to test them and offer feedback. 4)Insert brutal nerf with no player feedback/testing and call it final. This is a flowchart of failure, no? I work with alot of people in r/l and this sounds all too familiar. 1)You brought in an outsider with extensive knowledge of how supercaps work. 2) He made changes that really helped the ship classes and excited the player base. 3)The guy who used to do this job emoraged and pulled rank to completely destroy his success.In a final blow he not only reversed the changes but actually made the 2 ship classes markedly worse, just as a warning not to **** on his patch of grass again.
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:06:00 -
[331]
I'd also like to point out what others are saying:
You put a super carrier on the field, HICs will be all over them. They're just as committed as dreadnoughts but with the downside that they're going to be higher on the priority list.
Where's the benefit to flying a "super" carrier? I do slightly more damage - but still can't break a dread tank on my own - AND require a lot more "special" attention from the fleet in the form of a whole lot of triage carriers, which means less dedicated elsewhere, just so the super carrier pilot can have fun in his big ship.
This is an epic fail CCP, just truly epic fail.
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:07:00 -
[332]
Dont forget that more people in moms = more people needing extra accounts = more subs = more money to CCP
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:10:00 -
[333]
So CCP was like, "Hey, in Dominion, you won't have to do POS warfare to take space!" and we were all like, "Hell yeah!" until it turned out that it would cost more to hold a system than they're worth.
Then CCP was like, "Hey, in Dominion, motherships will be SUPERCARRIERS and they'll have FIGHTER BOMBERS and they'll be able to TEAR UP DREADNOUGHTS and maybe you'll even be able to dock them and *gasp* fly other ships!" and we were like, "HELL YEAH!" until we found out that they were still going to be flying coffins that can't hand out bonuses, can't dock, can't do enough DPS to justify their cost and generally can't do anything that another ship can do for a lot less isk. Oh, and speaking of ISK, if you already have one, good luck selling it.
If you want to fly a supercarrier, you will almost certainly have to buy or train an alt to do so. That will be all that character can ever does, because you can't dock and you won't be deploying the supercarrier very often (ie, almost never) If you do buy a character to fly a supercarrier, you will probably pay more for the character than you do for the ship. Well, maybe not, since it looks like there will be a lot of cheap supercarrier-capable characters on the market pretty soon.
There's still a way to salvage this, though. Boost fighter bomber damage. Actually, if you boost their damage so that supercarriers can still put about as much pain as they could before the nerf, it would actually be a really nice net boost, since it would mean that you'd be able to carry more fighters and fighter bombers. The drop in build-cost sucks for manufacturers and speculators, but speculators probably deserve whatever happens to them (ie, the smart/lucky ones prosper and the rest don't) and manufacturers would probably come out ahead in the end, since they'd be able to sell more ships to more people. Either way, this is a really bad time to make such radical changes. The smart thing to do would have been to go ahead and release the supercarriers as they were before this change and then see how they shake out in practice. And equally smart thing to do would have been to make the change on Sisi, announce that you did it and to say, "We have some ideas about supercarriers that we want to try out, so we're going to do an event on Sisi to see if the changes work." The dumb thing to do is pretty much exactly what you've done.
TL;DR: In Dominion, you CAN hold 0.0 space, but why would you? You CAN own a supercarrier, but why would you? You CAN keep playing, but why would you?
I, too, had an alt that I was hoping would one day be able to fly a supercarrier. Oh well. You know, I really hate to play the, "I'll quit" card, but CCP really needs to play the, "Keep playing because" card.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:11:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Sir JoJo im just putting my 2 cent, LOL @ all the whine, looks like some great changes, to both moms and titan, looking forward to see suppercarriers getting a real role, as anti capital whit no siege,
The 'role' that Nozh applied to them doesn't exist do tho current game mechanics and server load, hence they now have no role. Thanks for confirming your lack of knowledge troll.
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Lord Eremet
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:15:00 -
[335]
CCP, if you want to throw the mom pilots a bone here who just saw their investments diminish by at least 40%... let them petition to get docked in a station of their choosing where they can reprocess the ship with no loss and make carriers of the building blocks instead.
I don't own a mom* myself so the "nerf" don't affect me, but I like the thinking of making them cheaper and more usefull then they are today. After the whining died down I predict we will see more, not less, moms on the battlefield within a half year after dominion.
Those who threaten to quit the game now will then simply reactivate or sell their chars to players who will actually (gasp) use them!
*=supercarriers are kinda silly name
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xXxSatsujinxXx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:16:00 -
[336]
Originally by: DOARota
1)Lure a former SC pilot into the design team. 2)Create several changes within the titan/mothership classes to render them useful. 3)Convince the player base to fight through lag on sisi to test them and offer feedback. 4)Insert brutal nerf with no player feedback/testing and call it final. This is a flowchart of failure, no? 1)You brought in an outsider with extensive knowledge of how supercaps work. 2) He made changes that really helped the ship classes and excited the player base. 3)The guy who used to do this job emoraged and pulled rank to completely destroy his success.In a final blow he not only reversed the changes but actually made the 2 ship classes markedly worse, just as a warning not to **** on his patch of grass again.
Good god. That post pwned so hard even i felt the burn.
+1
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Doomed Predator
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:23:00 -
[337]
Seriously, why in the hell did you do this? What was so horribly overpowered about the old mothership changes that you had to make them basicaly useless 2 weeks before (supposedly) deploying the expansion. Thank god I'm not a mothership pilot.
The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Zarazaa
Scarlet Blood
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:27:00 -
[338]
This is simply sweet, compared to the initial Supercarrier lol boost, hope you stick to it CCP..
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:27:00 -
[339]
You know if dreads didn't already fill the anti-capital/structure roll so much better for a fraction of the cost(even new moms cost 4-5 times that of a dread), and if carriers didn't fill the logistics roll better for 1/8-1/10 of the cost people might actually fly these. In their current form there's no reason to fly moms over regular capitals. At least now on TQ moms offer higher EHP and more drones over a carrier. With these changes you get a ship that becomes a glorified carrier, which is better of swapped for a dread for a fraction of the cost.
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:28:00 -
[340]
Edited by: sue denim on 12/11/2009 18:29:47 Man way to really **** people off ;p Seriously did you just make the last changes to screw with people cause that'd be hilarious :P Bring em up and smash em down!
edit: if you honestly wanted constructive criticism you probably shouldn't have made changes and then told everyone about them and make them seem pretty much final and then just like ninja in changes and not say anything about it till someone finds out. You couldn't seriously be expecting constructive criticism after doing something like that I mean come on :P That's like hand tailored for creating emorage ^^
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Buxaroo
Gallente The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:28:00 -
[341]
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 12/11/2009 16:17:46 Another seriouspost: What on earth is going on in your dev environment when you assign a team of random devs to re-do the already completed/settled work of a previous team?
The primary reason why the nullsec playerbase is even vaguely considering the Dominion sov changes in a positive light is because the known architects of the design was /one of us/. Someone we know understands the game and all the things that can go wrong with it. When Soundwave or Abathur mouth off about sov, we can at least know that they understand where we're coming from.
Similarly: the supercapital changes were, until now, designed by someone who flew the damn things extensively, logged many hours pvping in them, and lost a titan to boot. Abathur has cred on supercapital changes. Who are you, Nozh? How many hours have you logged in a supercap? Where does your team's credibility on these new, unasked-for supercapital changes come from?
Leave nullsec and capital changes to devs who actually have some shred of credibility/experience in design.
Can you see what you are doing here CCP? I am quoting AND agreeing with Mittens. This idea of changing the MS to what you are proposing is WORSE than the failed talk about nerfing carriers 2 years ago because one dev thought they were "uber maxed out dps machines". When in fact ANY carrier pilot can tell you that all it takes is a few BS to kill you.
And you want us to fit Drone Control Units as a replacement? Are you nuts? Just because DCU's are worthless now doesn't mean you should try to encourage them. A MS without neutralizers and smartbombs is a DEAD MS in most fights. It doesn't matter that we should have to have out own support fleet to take care of enemy support fleet, because all tyou need is 100 BS shooting at you to die in a minute while the enemy is throwing 30 interdictors at you to keep you pinned down. Don't believe me? The other day we had a fleet fight against our enemies and we ended up having to kill 30 dictors in the span of 30 minutes.
OK, so you helped with the MS production to half of what it costs now. That doesn't help in the slightest, especially after only a couple of weeks ago you said that the only change to MS production was that you were getting rid of the clone bay thus resulting in a 1 bil savings. That's a lot, but nothing most can't handle. So a LOT of us have been scrambling to hurry up and get a mothership before patch day because regardless of cost savings building it, MS weren't going to be built like before because of new sov mechanics.
This is far worse than the nano nerf, far worse than the initial carrier nerf that was talked about 2 years ago.
And I will reiterate: give those who are in MS now the ability to dock and insure so that we may undock and self destruct to get our isk back or let us dock to reprocess so that we can build carriers and dreads sense those are more worthwhile. And I am dead serious about quitting this game because once I make a decision I don't turn back. I did it to Star Wars Galaxies 1 day after the NGE hit and I n-e-v-e-r looked back. And I was more emotionaly tied to that game because it was my first MMO and I was a huge Star Wars fan. I want to play this game, but you just effectively consigned my alt to set in a POS until the ship is self destructed.
NO ONE IS GOING TO PUT A MOTHERSHIP ONTO THE FIELD. NO ONE IS GOING TO RISK A 6 BILLION (really sad dontcha think) SHIP ON THE FIELD IF IT CAN't PROPERLY DEFEND ITSELF.
In other words, motherships have come FULL circle to where they were, and with half the worth. Congrats CCP, you ****ed off one of your most fervent fanbois.
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Succubine
Caldari Succubine Dynasty Technologies
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:30:00 -
[342]
Edited by: Succubine on 12/11/2009 18:35:47 Titans and Supercarriers are fine now. The rare, expensive and deadly toys they were meant to be.
Well done CCP.
Edit: Originally by: Buxaroo And you want us to fit Drone Control Units as a replacement? Are you nuts? Just because DCU's are worthless now doesn't mean you should try to encourage them. A MS without neutralizers and smartbombs is a DEAD MS in most fights.
They make a module powerful again, expect you to come with support and you still complain about balance? Perhaps they want you to make decisions and trade-offs instead of standard solo-killing-machine fit.
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Jana Tanaka
Caldari Tanaka Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:30:00 -
[343]
This is insane.
1st Economic Impact Supercapital Production is the most capital intensive and longest term form of investment possible in EVE. Break evens are reached after years and production cycles are counted in months. The logistics and prerequisites involved are insane. A major cut of production costs without balancing production times or compensating producers for already installed jobs is simply unjust. Such an action would be equivalent to just randomly deleting a few billion out of someones account. Its destroying a players invested time, efforts and ambitions on a whim. I will not even start to ramble about the potential impact of the Sov Changes on supercapital production or the effects on individual Mothership Owners. This intention contradicts every claim CCP has about providing a real economy and a sandbox environment. Its not a sandbox, its Kindergarden again.
2nd Reasoning It is unclear to me, why this last round of changes to supercapitals are seen as required. Its even more unclear to me, why such changes were announced 2 weeks before release. The prior Changes were the result of an intensive process of collaboration between players and devs, over the course of weeks. They have been found to be good, save some minor tweaks. What are the reasons for this change ?
Disclaimer I am neither involved in supercap production nor do I own one or planned to own one.
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:33:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Succubine Titans and Supercarriers are fine now. The rare, expensive and deadly toys they were meant to be.
Well done CCP.
actually they're cheaper then ever and less deadly o_0 what have you been reading?
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Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:34:00 -
[345]
what an absolute load of crap.... you're nerfing supercarriers to be almost useless again.
and to top it all off you're reducing the build cost so much that those of us with them currently can't even sell the ones we have for anywhere near the ISK we put into it.
if this rolls out i will certianly be letting my supercap char account go deactivated and i'm sure i'm not the only one. but then again we all know CCP puts more care and attension into getting new players into the game than looking after the existing player base.
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Ghengis Khan
Minmatar tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:34:00 -
[346]
great job ccp for (once more) screwing your own customers.
how many moms are fielded in game or currently in production? 500? - you just terminated 3 trn. isk, stole it from us because your brainless devs cant come up with something constructive.
You definately have NO CLUE about your own game.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:34:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Succubine Titans and Supercarriers are fine now. The rare, expensive and deadly toys they were meant to be.
Well done CCP.
Trolls should stay away from serious discussions.
If CCPs goal is to make Moms and Titans rare by making them so crappy that no one flies them, then that means that they are really as incompetent as I believe they are.
On a side note, where are Stoffer and Seleene. You know the devs that have actually been in large scale capital warfare. Prolly said they wouldn't touch the stupid ****ing topic with a 10 foot pole.
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Barqs
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:36:00 -
[348]
This is complete bull****, Who the heck wants a 6-8b isk freaking ship thats bearly better then a damn 700m carrier. CCP do you even play this damn game? Of corse its better then a dread it costs 6x as much................................. Barqs-
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:37:00 -
[349]
CCP Guy: Ok lets spend a month testing these new changes and get the players involved to see how they feel.
QA GUY: Ok player report is in and its looking good and the testing has gone well.
CCP Guy: Ok now we have spent a month play testing all these changes lets completely scrap it all and do this instead.
And people thought banks were badly run
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Jamyl TashMurkon
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:37:00 -
[350]
I too, whine about yet unannounced changes on the TEST server.
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Minh Linh
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:37:00 -
[351]
Who decided this? Are you completely nuts?
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:39:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Jamyl TashMurkon I too, whine about yet unannounced changes on the TEST server.
In before T2 ammo comment The Light in the Darkness
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Murdoch Morf
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:41:00 -
[353]
Congratulations ccp, for making the biggest ****up in eve's history.. Wild applaus from this side..
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:42:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 12/11/2009 18:43:19 The only way I see this working is if the DCU's added 2 fighters/bombers each. Since I'm guessing you don't want normal carriers putting out 20 fighters by themselves, that means that the super carrier bonus should be 2 fighters per level instead.
That means 20 fighter bombers at level 5 carrier + level 5 adv drone interfacing.
Can't we come to a compromise on this and put the super carrier drone bonus per level at 2?
This still doesn't address that I have invested 2 years of training to max out my skills and 30 billion isk into a ship now worth 5 billion, and spent a year and a half sitting in a pos based off your PROMISE to *improve* them not nerf them. But at least I wouldn't be completely worthless post patch.
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Banlish
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:42:00 -
[355]
Edited by: Banlish on 12/11/2009 18:41:53
Remember this 'often' forgotten game mechanic.
You can file a petition to have your mothership OR titan to be put into a station so you can put insurance on it. As long as you request a station with a 50% refinery you 'could' technically 'oops' it and get all your parts/minerals back.
OR
You could platinum insure it and go outside and hit the red button for a bigger payout then just self destructing without insurance.
Just saying....
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:42:00 -
[356]
Isn't this still a major buff from current Tranquility? Significantly more EHP, anti-capital, and accessibility at the trade off of reduced defense against smaller ships (and since this ship isn't supposed to be used solo, right?). At 5-6b, they're a decent jump ISK wise from Dreadnoughts and are quite a bit more rugged, are they not?
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Ka'lorn Font'a
Amarr Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:43:00 -
[357]
Account: Cancelled
Don't believe I'm finding myself agreeing with Mittens, but it's true.
Abathur/Seleene's propositions - that were tested by the playerbase actually made me look at getting one of these ships. I actually went ahead and brought it, because - hey, after 6(?) weeks of testing the propositions, no Development Team would be stupid enough to then completely re-do them (in such a way as they are complete and utter ****) 3 weeks before an expansion?
Right?
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Minh Linh
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:44:00 -
[358]
Originally by: The Internets Isn't this still a major buff from current Tranquility? Significantly more EHP, anti-capital, and accessibility at the trade off of reduced defense against smaller ships (and since this ship isn't supposed to be used solo, right?). At 5-6b, they're a decent jump ISK wise from Dreadnoughts and are quite a bit more rugged, are they not?
you mean buying a ship for 6 bn isk that is barely better than a carrier for 700 mil isk?
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Darekish
Caldari Ascent of Ages Art of Defiance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:45:00 -
[359]
This is a VERY poor decision, MS's looked to be changing for the better and offered a real reason to use them in fleet action, now due to this last moment change they will once again become the best way yet invented by CCP to make its players pay for an account that they then never use.
This is VERY DISAPOINTING and an example of truly poor community relations as everything posted by CCP about the MOM/supercarrier change until this (and which had generated a generally positive responce) is now effectivly worthless.
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:46:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Murdoch Morf Congratulations ccp, for making the biggest ****up in eve's history.. Wild applaus from this side..
no that's boot.ini :P
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Shas Shadow
Caldari 3LITE. Emergence.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:46:00 -
[361]
Originally by: The Internets Isn't this still a major buff from current Tranquility? Significantly more EHP, anti-capital, and accessibility at the trade off of reduced defense against smaller ships (and since this ship isn't supposed to be used solo, right?). At 5-6b, they're a decent jump ISK wise from Dreadnoughts and are quite a bit more rugged, are they not?
Lol you are supposed to be against this change xD
Caldari FTW lol |
Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:47:00 -
[362]
I'd also like to point out the condescending nature in which these changes were introduced. They were snuck onto the test server without so much as a peep from CCP, assuming that we were to mental deficient to notice that they had changed something. Lo and behold one of the players found the nerf and shouted on the forums. CCP then waits 2 days to respond despite an overwhelming call for answers(note they didn't even inform all of their GMs about the changes). When CCP finally responds we get a single post with some bull**** story about how they tried to move Moms into a role shooting moving capitals. Not only does that situation not exist on TQ, they performed better in that role before. So despite any prompting from the player base...let me rephrase. With positive opinions of the current situations with Moms, CCP nerfs them. After the bull **** story, which I'm offended you'd have me believe that you want a ship to shoot capitals that are moving during a capital fleet fight, you have no response to all the people who cry bull**** except to threaten to ban them. Congratulations CCP for such amazing PR.
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Ne0tr0n
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:47:00 -
[363]
good job ccp.... listening to your fellow player base... good job
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:52:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Minh Linh
Originally by: The Internets Isn't this still a major buff from current Tranquility? Significantly more EHP, anti-capital, and accessibility at the trade off of reduced defense against smaller ships (and since this ship isn't supposed to be used solo, right?). At 5-6b, they're a decent jump ISK wise from Dreadnoughts and are quite a bit more rugged, are they not?
you mean buying a ship for 6 bn isk that is barely better than a carrier for 700 mil isk?
You mean like buying a 10b invul over a 350m faction one for a relatively small gain? You mean like paying 500m+ for the faction version of a BS for that extra low slot or launcher? etc.
I'd say 10x the EHP, Ewar immunity and a completely exclusive weapon system aren't bad things to have, as well as being significantly more accessible now price-wise. Follows suite with the rest of EVE, and they are still better despite these nerfs compared to live.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:53:00 -
[365]
/me gets the feeling CCP doesnt like the guys in 0.0 space.
If your going to do this (and a hope not) then you better allow them to dock at stations or give everyone a week of full insurance so they can self destruct.
Please stop listening to the guys in empire for 0.0 changes they dont have to live out here, your making 0.0 less and less attractive, were about 1 step away from concord being put out in 0.0 to look after the 2 day old noob that is wandering around.
Put the DD back to its original stats Put the "Mothership" back to its original stats (and name) and please listen to the 0.0 guys on 0.0 matters, we like our big over powered ships that cost a fortune and its not like they are a threat to mission runners.....
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:56:00 -
[366]
Oh the humanity! The tears of the epeen waving 0.0 elite taste so sweet.
Rain, rain tears of the supercapital pilots. I want to swim in an ocean of your tears!
Good job CCP. :P My sig don't fracking work. |
Shigsy
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:56:00 -
[367]
Hahahah wat.
CCP does it again. Last year or so, I've kept my accounts subbed for my endgame. It was gonna be an aeon. Due to my recent little amount of playtime, it took me alot longer than expected to get my endgame, but the recent devblogs urged me on. I thought that mom's were gonna spike in price due to their usefulness post patch. I got the isk, bought my aeon, few weeks later, lost most of it and am now the owner of a useless ship that's worth ****all.
Congrats ccp, go kill yourself irl (ingame)
Join "C&P" ingame! |
Kublai Khan
Caldari Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:56:00 -
[368]
Might end up not being so bad for everyone else but the poor sods who already own a mothership which just lost 10bn value...
and why are you doing this when you said somewhere else that you needed another ship to use the name "mothership", why not change this ship into whatever youre thinking with that and make a new supercarrier?
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Biologic
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:56:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Sir JoJo im just putting my 2 cent, LOL @ all the whine, looks like some great changes, to both moms and titan, looking forward to see suppercarriers getting a real role, as anti capital whit no siege,
u say that but..
how many people own dreads ? kk
now how many people own motherships ??
i think they still wont have a role because no c u n t will use them.. even if they cost 6 bill.
so the nerf is dumb..
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karttoon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:57:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Mr Kidd Wow, there's several dozen accounts slated for cancellation in this thread alone. I, uh, don't want to take advantage of your pain....but....um....can I have dibs on all your stuffs?
Yes. For every 1 billion isk you send me, I'll send you double until I am out of ISK and I can cancel my accounts. I'll do the same with items.
Unfortunately, if you send me a mothership, I will only send you 1/3 of one back in return.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:03:00 -
[371]
I am one of those guys who have a MS in the cooker atm. Therefore I am seriously ****ed of course.
Furthermore there will be one of my chars rendered pretty much useless in the very near future and you can't explain the logic behind this change no matter what. The previous posters in this thread have said over and over again why this change makes the xCarrier fit a special role there is absolutely no need for.
Additionally: LolDCU.
I am seriously and really angry atm which makes me wonder why I feel anger over internet-spaceships. I should probably just take a break.
Suggestion for the future to CCP: Get someone who has a clue of public relations in charge of the planning and announcement of gamechanges.
And last point (and an obvious one): Fire the ***got who came up with this ****.
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karttoon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:03:00 -
[372]
Damn that was stupid of me. I should have been like CCP and told you that after you sent one over.
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Salam Farooj
INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION 2009
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:04:00 -
[373]
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Minh Linh
Originally by: The Internets Isn't this still a major buff from current Tranquility? Significantly more EHP, anti-capital, and accessibility at the trade off of reduced defense against smaller ships (and since this ship isn't supposed to be used solo, right?). At 5-6b, they're a decent jump ISK wise from Dreadnoughts and are quite a bit more rugged, are they not?
you mean buying a ship for 6 bn isk that is barely better than a carrier for 700 mil isk?
You mean like buying a 10b invul over a 350m faction one for a relatively small gain? You mean like paying 500m+ for the faction version of a BS for that extra low slot or launcher? etc.
I'd say 10x the EHP, Ewar immunity and a completely exclusive weapon system aren't bad things to have, as well as being significantly more accessible now price-wise. Follows suite with the rest of EVE, and they are still better despite these nerfs compared to live.
Because you routinely see 0.0 BS gangs of Rattlesnake's and Bhalgorn's rocking A Type EANM's and Estamel's Invulns.
Even if they are still better than compared to live, they still aren't good enough to be used in actual combat. The DevFailPost pigeon-holed them into a role that doesn't exist in the real game. Wow, shoot at just above short range dread level against moving cap ships, you know all 10 of those carriers that escorted the 130 Dreads.
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Herar Domain
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:05:00 -
[374]
Come on CCP that can't be serious -.-' At first they say they want to boost the Motherships that they are used more,now they exactly do the opposite of what was their aim.
This pre-nerf is really depressing
I hope CCP will think again about that case again -.-'
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Darknesss
NibbleTek
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:05:00 -
[375]
CCP dont be ridiculous... I have to say if this is indeed true, im absolutely disgusted, motherships have NEVER BEEN overpowered. Now you want to make it a ridiculously pointless piece of **** and put me about 15b isk out of pocket?
If you have any common sense you wont make these changes.
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Banlish
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:06:00 -
[376]
This is EXTREMELY poor management/listening by CCP. I'm a fan boy like no other (7 accounts) and I've grinned and soldiered on trying my best to look for the silver lining in these endless stream of 'nerfs' that keep hitting players like kidney shots. But this is just wrong. There are only 400+ of the things in the game atm, and at most you might see 5 to 10 at max on the field at once, just what server side lag are you trying to fix?
The reasons the ships are now junk are listed all over this thread by other posters, but you slapped them HARD in the face with this nerf. I have at least 14 people off the top of my head in corp that were saving, grinding, towards a mom. Now? I'll be surprised if even 1 keeps on his path. Listen to your players, and other 1. roll this expansion back so it's worth while and put in place correctly (seriously we'd respect you MORE for it..) or 2. Give Mom's back their basic abilities that you've stripped away and tons of players were EXCITED about.
Think about it.
1. Push through patch too early, enrage players and screw over tons of people (might I add before a few 'new' Sci-Fi MMO's are hitting shelves) or 2. Roll back MOM nerf OR push expansion back to a date where all the correct items can be put in and worked CORRECTLY. (Wow, no one gets paid for the expansion anyway, so why bullhead it through?. We *gasp* might have a deep respect for you for actually having the b@lls to admit it's not ready as is....(
Just saying...
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:07:00 -
[377]
Wtt Wyvern for some kind of comment/feedback from CCP Devs. Projected value of the "super"carrier currently being on par with the quality of CCP's responses so far.
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:08:00 -
[378]
I for one am glad I spent 16b on my moms hull when I could of waited a month and got one for 6b and then used 10b for GTCs, thanks for stealing nearly 2 years worth of game time from me.
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Alex Under
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:08:00 -
[379]
EVE Players, hear me out.
Perhaps should all support CCP in these upcoming supercap changes and let them see the error of their ways when they have to 'really nerf' them again in 3-4 months when alliances start fielding 50+ Mothership fleets that been HP buffed, are setup for Remote Rep tanking and can't forget also immune to EWAR. That's roughly 500 Million armor hitpoints combined. And so what if these new Motherships can only field 10 Fighter Bombers, that is still 500x Fighter Bombers worth of damage. Now think of that 50+ Mothership fleet flying through EVE killing all it wants, there would hardly be no counter for it. After all, CCP is dropping down the cost to 5-6 billion for a Mothership, alliances can start really building them in bulk now. I mean, what's 5-6 billion to a player these days? Run some plexes, mine some asteroids and whatever else you need to make up, just buy a few GTCs and sell them for isk and there you have enough isk for a Mothership.
So let's embrace these changes so that we may see CCP fall flat on their faces when these events starts happening, because I predict it will. Give it 3-4 months before alliances start fielding 50+ mothership fleets.
/Signed Alex Under [HAVOC CEO]
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:09:00 -
[380]
Poor show, suddenly announcing a vastly reduced build cost when people have been scrambling to start masses of build jobs over the last few weeks, timed to finish before sov 4 protection runs out. That's hundreds of billions of isk down the drain, representing a monumental amount of player time and cash spent on PLEX. I don't think you appreciate the degree of ill-feeling this is going to cause.
It is also generally agreed that DCUs are at present a total joke - no-one is going to want to sacrifice survivability on such an expensive ship, even after the proposed build cost reduction. At the very least their bonus should be tripled if you want people to consider using them.
This was one aspect of the expansion that was almost universally agreed to be a good thing. Why change it at such short notice? What was wrong with the previous iteration? --- 34.4:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:09:00 -
[381]
Originally by: CCP Navigator constructive
glad to see you are capable of spelling that.
i started doubting
1) sov: no matter how you spin it it's still a fresh isk sink and a HUGE one to boot. if you decide to ram up your GTC income, just say so. all the noble robin-hood'ery of making null-sec accessible for the little guy is a charade considering the steep costs, the 750,000m¦ hubs and the remaining few entry systems. there was a time when you made sense; null sec had to be made easier so there'd be more pewpew. good times...
2) moms: everything said, really. all that's left is mentioning the explosion radius bonus of 7.5% to prove your acting. sure, a weapon against only caps... mhmm
3) T2 component reshuffle : i hear you hired an economist who should be able to fly and produce T2 by now. after all these years, i'm sure he's had a go at a complex reaction aswell, because i doubt tritanium can keep a newbie interest for all those quarters. i don't see his influence at all; the problem got shoved around yet the bottleneck is going to be even worse: limited to one moon mineral instead of two and there's no alchemy to replace it.
4) projectile boost : let's continue the arms race! there would have been nothing wrong with nerfing amarr a bit. taking back one/two of the boosts, like tracking, would not have been a sign a weakness - apparently your biggest fear. the world has changed since the little skirmishes got nerf along with speed.
and then there was the probing stuff noah was talking about at the pvp round table. he did sound like these little pivot substractions necessary to move probes in as you make them "smaller" were in in place on your internal servers? along with the dozen of other probing bugs. no matter how valid i'm sure those bug reports are being added to the noise statistic. sry hunter, you sold your department really well and i think you came across as a capable organizer. but your bug hunters are just ****. there's a reason so many countries got rid of general conscription and just went for "professional" armies.
honestly guys, the SWG comparisons may just seem trolls to you but there's just way more truth to it than what would be considered a healthy dosage. NO YOU! ...are not being constructive - just doing "something" doesn't qualify - putting the gist back into logistics |
Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:10:00 -
[382]
Edited by: Obsidian Hawk on 12/11/2009 19:12:03 Dear CCP Dev, GM, and anyone else who reads the forums.
Here is my constructive feed back.
In one post you have singhandedly destroyed the role and purpose of anyone ever to fly or pay for a mother ship. Changing the costs from 16 bill to 5 bill and then saying it will have junk dps? No! Bad, no cookies and beer for the dev team.
This is probably the worst thing you could do to those ships, it removes their roles and purpose in the game.
What you need to do at BARE MINIMUM is to RESTORE them to 3 drones per level AND just do a LIMIT on how many fighter bombers a mothership can use. say limit it to 10 bombers and 5 fighters. This is a nerf but not a lorana bobbit nerf, oh and boost the cost back up to 10 billion to make sure those who already paid the 18-20 billion for motherships dont complain as much.
Change the drone bandwidth not the ship!
Angrily Obsidian Hawk
//edit
Navigator, Stevie, and the others, you need to remember when you see 13 pages of hate that maybe, just maybe people dont like the changes and you should not do them. Hate can be interpreted as feedback as oh wow we did something really bad and a lot of people who pay good money dont like us for it.
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stylo11
Gallente Quam Singulari Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:12:00 -
[383]
CCP,
I have to ask, what are you doing? I can not honestly see the good side of this change other than reduceing a bit of lag. (That i cannot see being an issue anyway due to the LACK of SuperCarriers that would be on the field at any one time.
So yeah, again what are you doing? Fair enough if you want to premote teamwork instead of 'soloing' supercarriers. BUT, this will not help in anyway. The only time you are gonna get solo'ing SuperCarriers is if someone is feeling Rambo. Now, you still gonna have someone like that post patch anyway. So, effectivly you are only getting rid of a game mechanic that you gave people hope with that the game might have a bit of livelyness back to it. If you want proof of that, just have a look at the forums and all the motership sales.
As mentioned by others. No one in there right mind is gonna fit drone control units to there SuperCarriers, and no one ever has, no matter what way the ship ever was, fitted them. The high slots for reps, neuts, remote ecm ect. Something that has always been in them slots.
If your mind never will be changed on bringing back 20 fighters, for whatever reason. Then please, oh please, consider a damage bonous/level - as it has been done in previous times when reduceing drone numbers.
Just consider what you are doing. Please.
Stylo |
Emily Elderburry
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:12:00 -
[384]
CCP, I own a Nyx and an Aeon that I bought this past August. I was quite happy as flying them was my goal for 2 years. Then I see this:
"Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn." Tells me that I've lost around 18-20 BILLION ISK and a 1.5 years of isk making because of this change.
Do you plan to offer compensation to current MS pilots?
If my isk goes down the drain because of CCP's plans, I feel that the last 1.5 years of wasted isk making and my money used to fund my MS holding toons + my mains is in vain and a complete waste of time. I am planning to quit EvE and cancel my accounts if this change goes through.
Nyx Pilot account - will be canceled Aeon Pilot account - will be canceled Nyx holding alt account - will be canceled Aeon Pilot Holding account - will be canceled
CCP: Please think about what you are doing.
Best regards, Emily
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TiaConda
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:13:00 -
[385]
OMG
CCP u freakin GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
WTH!!!! NUBLETS THE LOT OF YOU!!!! i h8 u sooooooooooooooooo much right now FFS
"parks mothership on alt to die logged off in low sec'
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ArmyOfMe
Exotic Dancers Club
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:17:00 -
[386]
,,|,,
crappy move ccp, this expantion had so much potensial and u manage to **** up like this.
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Jana Tanaka
Caldari Tanaka Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:18:00 -
[387]
Edited by: Jana Tanaka on 12/11/2009 19:18:37 Ups, did not see that post, so I could not include it into my earlier comment:
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. ... Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn. ... The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare. ... -Nozh
a) Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts. Sure... the enemies hictors and dictors will be after the Dreadnaughts first, because these can not be pointed otherwise... oh.. wait...
c) Have to be stationary Hmm... right.. Fleet tactics of today are based around maneuverability of the Capital Assets, dealing instant damage while being able to move warp freely would be overpowered.. wait.. If the intention is to prevent motherships from assigning fighters and do some safespot hopping, its balantly ignoring the fact, that they cannot outwarp dictors. *shrugs*
The reasons given seem to ignore the nature of todays capital battlefield.
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:18:00 -
[388]
Edited by: The Internets on 12/11/2009 19:18:54
Originally by: Salam Farooj
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Minh Linh
Originally by: The Internets Isn't this still a major buff from current Tranquility? Significantly more EHP, anti-capital, and accessibility at the trade off of reduced defense against smaller ships (and since this ship isn't supposed to be used solo, right?). At 5-6b, they're a decent jump ISK wise from Dreadnoughts and are quite a bit more rugged, are they not?
you mean buying a ship for 6 bn isk that is barely better than a carrier for 700 mil isk?
You mean like buying a 10b invul over a 350m faction one for a relatively small gain? You mean like paying 500m+ for the faction version of a BS for that extra low slot or launcher? etc.
I'd say 10x the EHP, Ewar immunity and a completely exclusive weapon system aren't bad things to have, as well as being significantly more accessible now price-wise. Follows suite with the rest of EVE, and they are still better despite these nerfs compared to live.
Because you routinely see 0.0 BS gangs of Rattlesnake's and Bhalgorn's rocking A Type EANM's and Estamel's Invulns.
Even if they are still better than compared to live, they still aren't good enough to be used in actual combat. The DevFailPost pigeon-holed them into a role that doesn't exist in the real game. Wow, shoot at just above short range dread level against moving cap ships, you know all 10 of those carriers that escorted the 130 Dreads.
You occasionally see a faction BS here or there, because that player chose to spend a significant amount more ISK for a small edge. Same goes for supercarriers, it's an option that few players chose to make, a slight edge for a big investment.
And frankly, people threatening to 'cancel accounts' and whatnot are a part of such a small minority that they probably laugh at CCP. Think about it this way, multiple thousands of new players suddenly see that the awesome capital ships they've been dreaming of got significantly more affordable, versus the couple hundred who are now singing CRAWLING IN MY SKIN, THESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL.
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The Kan
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:20:00 -
[389]
THIS IS RE-TAR-DED
get this rolled back ccp, and while you at it, FIRE THE GUY THAT CAME UP WITH THIS!
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:20:00 -
[390]
I just wonder based on what have theese changes been made? Like have there been any objections from playerbase about the ship class being unbalanced (taking in note the changes innitially given in Dominiona and test days) compared to for example the titan doomsday mechanics?
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Domoso
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:22:00 -
[391]
Edited by: Domoso on 12/11/2009 19:25:11 I get it! I get it! The sov & SC changes aren't meant to make the game "better". With the tears overflowing in this thread I finally get CCP's motivations in order to open up nullsec. It's to **** off the older players so much so they quit, alliances collapse under their own weight, nullsec is then vacated open to the newer players to move in. Wow! Who could have thought that instead of introducing aspects of the game which would provide some virtual "natural" disaster in the form of something like supernovas to wipe out whole systems of assets, CCP is introducing mechanics so horrific, so disastrous that in effect they result in the same outcome.
Wow! All I can say is I have a new respect for CCP.....you devious game designers you. Dev = Devious? And the way CCP throws it in the Community's face in essence saying "We don't need you! You don't tell us what to do! We tell you what to do and you'll enjoy it or else!". Ruthless man, real ruthless. That's the way to put your customers in their place! Man, I've got wood just thinking how ball-sy that is.
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John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:22:00 -
[392]
So you say the 14+ bill that I spent on a mothership has basically just halved in value?!?! Are you going to refund me the difference or just tell me tough ****, deal with it? I accepted the loss I would take because of the clone vats but this is not fair.
I am so angry now. I spent years of time to reach this level, I spent hours of game time to get this ship, months of training time, hundreds of dollars only for you now to tell me you want to destroy it. I want my ISK back if you go through with this.
You have a great game and great potential but you guys insist on ****ing it up. We as a community have made plenty of posts to help build this game and you just decide this is how you will do it and don't care otherwise. Why is there a CSM, wtf do they really mean to you? It's just a great marketing drive to say to new players, come play here, we have the community working with us. You don't care what the community thinks.
Get EVE players to design your game cause you people clearly have no intention of bettering it.
Disgusted is what comes to mind.
JZ
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:23:00 -
[393]
You have to run a whole seperate account for a supercap and you can only fly the 1 ship with it, why anyone would want to pay a sub just to be able to fly a mom now is a mystery.
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Shigsy
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:23:00 -
[394]
Posting again cause you know... rofl :ccp:
Join "C&P" ingame! |
Cyno911
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:27:00 -
[395]
Just found out there is no " cancel becus of upcoming patch " selection when i canceld my subs, can you add that ccp?
And just bring back the things you had 1 week ago, and make EVERY ONE happy again. Now you are just making bad PR.
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Cuisinar
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:28:00 -
[396]
wait guys!!! wait!!!!! i got it...
ccp > ok guys, we need to fix supercaps. any ideas? guyz > yeah , hp buff, fighter bombs and let's talk to the player base. player base > damn about time ccp > ok let's do all the other way around and f*** the player base pretty good player base > X_x
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Mordrid
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:28:00 -
[397]
CCP are morons who have no concept of this game. Way to go idiots.
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Ripper666
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:31:00 -
[398]
Mordrid is a Moron Who has no concept of this game, this nerf is Proper Ghey, way to go Idiots...? |
the plague
Scoopex Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:33:00 -
[399]
I'm generally very supporting of CCP and its design decisions. Even when I disagree with a particular decision, I can almost always see where the devs were coming from, even if I would have chosen another path. But this is just asinine.
I'm almost always on your side, CCP, but even I have to wonder if there isn't some truth to the charge that the devs no longer play the game or even know what's going on.
The Mothership has always been one of the coolest ships in the game, but one rarely seen or used because it was huge waste of ISK. Worse than a waste of ISK, it was little more than a very expensive target. But finally, after years of neglect, this class of ships was finally going to be made into a weapon fearsome enough to justify the extreme price and inability to dock. After testing the new Supercarrier design several times on SISI over the last few weeks, I was still unconvinced the ship was effective enough as it remains one of the few ships in the game that can have its primary weapons taken away from it quite easily. But still, it was still a move in the right direction.
And then someone decided to nerf the damn thing back into uselessness before we even got to use it! This has got to be some kind of new record.
Really CCP, you need to get it into your heads that many players see cap warfare as EVE's endgame. They won't spend years and years paying for accounts, training up characters, and painstakingly building up in-game assets just to fly the same old ships as the noobs. People want an endgame! It is not unreasonable or "unbalanced" for players who have invested years in your game to demand rewards commensurate with that kind of investment. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that this habit of nerfing and pre-nerfing everything in the damn game into oblivion is beyond old. A lot of us are to the point where we're questioning whether it's really worth the time, energy and in-game currency to invest in anything in this game because it will likely just get snatched away at some point on the whim of some dev.
Come on CCP, you're supposed to be giving seasoned players more reasons to stick with EVE and keep playing. Instead, your intent seems to be to nerf every worthwhile investment in the game into complete uselessness. But if you're not real damn careful, you're going to end up nerfing EVE into uselessness.
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Derkan
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:35:00 -
[400]
LoL, and we have 3 ms's in the cooker just cause of the inital changes. U just had to slap us in the face, didn't u.
However, as my feelings towards the carrier changes are bad, I can live with the isk loss. It's the function of the supercapitals that matter most. And this joke of a nerf does not even come close to what you've done with the mobile jump por.. I mean the titan nerf.
The inital Titan changes were promising and I actually had high hopes for the ship. But now, the current changes on sisi are a complete utter joke..
You need to compromise with your member base CCP. We play the game because we enjoy it and want to continue enjoying it. We do not want to see a SWG plague happening to this great game.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:37:00 -
[401]
Originally by: John Zorg So you say the 14+ bill that I spent on a mothership has basically just halved in value?!?! Are you going to refund me the difference or just tell me tough ****, deal with it? I accepted the loss I would take because of the clone vats but this is not fair.
I am so angry now. I spent years of time to reach this level, I spent hours of game time to get this ship, months of training time, hundreds of dollars only for you now to tell me you want to destroy it. I want my ISK back if you go through with this.
QFT
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Shad0wsFury
Helljumpers
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:37:00 -
[402]
These emo tears are delicious.
You guys are almost like America's conservative "tea baggers" who are fighting against liberal policy because it hurts YOU directly in the pocketbook.
Think about the changes, and how they will impact EVE as a whole.
5-6b supercarriers will make them fairly affordable, and when working en-masse, can do things that dreads cannot because they are mobile (if slow), and are immune to Ewar (other than HICs). What will we see in a few months? Likely we'll see supercarrier wings that can hit and run, fight aligned, put out frightening dps, respond and retreat and do a number of other things. They won't completely replace dreads, but they could come damn close (just imagine if dreads could fight aligned and put out siege dps...).
All I see in this topic are "I have a mom" whiners, and I don't blame them, tbh. What's important though is how this will impact the game as a whole and not how it's going to hurt a VERY small percentage of the EVE population.
I for one think the changes will be good, allowing for supercarriers to be more attainable for the average player not part of a superpower willing to subsidize one (or build one for cost even), and will add a new layer to capital warfare, something that any capital pilot will tell you can get VERY boring.
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Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:39:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Shad0wsFury immune to Ewar (other than HICs)
And Neuts.
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Sano Seichiro
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:40:00 -
[404]
Edited by: Sano Seichiro on 12/11/2009 19:40:55 Lol guys, I think you did not understand one thing, CCP DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR FEEDBACK. they change the game and that all. Don't waste time whining there.
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:40:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Shad0wsFury These emo tears are delicious.
You guys are almost like America's conservative "tea baggers" who are fighting against liberal policy because it hurts YOU directly in the pocketbook.
Think about the changes, and how they will impact EVE as a whole.
5-6b supercarriers will make them fairly affordable, and when working en-masse, can do things that dreads cannot because they are mobile (if slow), and are immune to Ewar (other than HICs). What will we see in a few months? Likely we'll see supercarrier wings that can hit and run, fight aligned, put out frightening dps, respond and retreat and do a number of other things. They won't completely replace dreads, but they could come damn close (just imagine if dreads could fight aligned and put out siege dps...).
All I see in this topic are "I have a mom" whiners, and I don't blame them, tbh. What's important though is how this will impact the game as a whole and not how it's going to hurt a VERY small percentage of the EVE population.
I for one think the changes will be good, allowing for supercarriers to be more attainable for the average player not part of a superpower willing to subsidize one (or build one for cost even), and will add a new layer to capital warfare, something that any capital pilot will tell you can get VERY boring.
Good thing that just like dreads/carriers you can dock them, allowing you to not have to use a garage account to stay in it permanently...no...wait...
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:42:00 -
[406]
I wouldnt even care about the price change if the damage was the same but you could expect to see alliance mom fleets for sure then.
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Ghengis Khan
Minmatar tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:44:00 -
[407]
Deleting posts won't solve this problem, CCP
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Darknesss
NibbleTek
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:45:00 -
[408]
Originally by: CCP StevieSG Hello everyone. While we appreciate that this thread is generating quite a bit of feedback we would ask that your responses be polite and respectful. Please note that any posts which break the forum rules may result in a warning or ban. Thank you.
Were these changes in any way shape or form polite and respectful? No.
Do you have any idea how long it takes the average player to save up 10-15b isk? No.
The funny thing is, if these changes were to take place, i'd probably profit massively from 3rd party trades along with Chribba, but still im absolutely 100% against it. Seleene appeared to be doing some good for supercapitals, they are and should be VALUABLE and POWERFUL ships capable of alot more than their much cheaper and smaller counterparts. CCP continue to astonish me at how out of touch they are with the common player.
You as a company are so incredibly heavy handed when it comes to patches its insane. You dont just change things or tweak things, you shift game play completely and instantly. You need to put alot more thought into ships BEFORE you release them, you arent costing people just isk, its real life time and real life cash... essentially its damn near to fraud as hilarious as that sounds. If i sold someone an Aston Martin for ú150k take their money and say oops sorry we just decided we're going to give you this 1 ltr Vauxhall Corsa I dont think the person would be very happy, infact I think there would be physical violence.
Dark
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Dratic
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:45:00 -
[409]
Originally by: the plague I'm generally very supporting of CCP and its design decisions. Even when I disagree with a particular decision, I can almost always see where the devs were coming from, even if I would have chosen another path. But this is just asinine.
I'm almost always on your side, CCP, but even I have to wonder if there isn't some truth to the charge that the devs no longer play the game or even know what's going on.
The Mothership has always been one of the coolest ships in the game, but one rarely seen or used because it was huge waste of ISK. Worse than a waste of ISK, it was little more than a very expensive target. But finally, after years of neglect, this class of ships was finally going to be made into a weapon fearsome enough to justify the extreme price and inability to dock. After testing the new Supercarrier design several times on SISI over the last few weeks, I was still unconvinced the ship was effective enough as it remains one of the few ships in the game that can have its primary weapons taken away from it quite easily. But still, it was still a move in the right direction.
And then someone decided to nerf the damn thing back into uselessness before we even got to use it! This has got to be some kind of new record.
Really CCP, you need to get it into your heads that many players see cap warfare as EVE's endgame. They won't spend years and years paying for accounts, training up characters, and painstakingly building up in-game assets just to fly the same old ships as the noobs. People want an endgame! It is not unreasonable or "unbalanced" for players who have invested years in your game to demand rewards commensurate with that kind of investment. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that this habit of nerfing and pre-nerfing everything in the damn game into oblivion is beyond old. A lot of us are to the point where we're questioning whether it's really worth the time, energy and in-game currency to invest in anything in this game because it will likely just get snatched away at some point on the whim of some dev.
Come on CCP, you're supposed to be giving seasoned players more reasons to stick with EVE and keep playing. Instead, your intent seems to be to nerf every worthwhile investment in the game into complete uselessness. But if you're not real damn careful, you're going to end up nerfing EVE into uselessness.
This. The number of things ccp has nerfed when i think about it is just staggering. It appears every part of the pvp game has been effected. I haven't been playin the 6 years the vets have but since i started. Damps got nerfed, Drones got nerfed, Nos got nerfed, speed got nerfed, cyno effect removed, ecm got nerfed, missles nerfed, scanner button nerfed, whats next ccp? As with another post, why should people invest any time in your game you'll only take it away from them.
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Emily Elderburry
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:46:00 -
[410]
SINCE YOU DELETED MY POST I'll POST IT AGAIN.
This sums it all up; +1 to the plague
Originally by: the plague I'm generally very supporting of CCP and its design decisions. Even when I disagree with a particular decision, I can almost always see where the devs were coming from, even if I would have chosen another path. But this is just asinine.
I'm almost always on your side, CCP, but even I have to wonder if there isn't some truth to the charge that the devs no longer play the game or even know what's going on.
The Mothership has always been one of the coolest ships in the game, but one rarely seen or used because it was huge waste of ISK. Worse than a waste of ISK, it was little more than a very expensive target. But finally, after years of neglect, this class of ships was finally going to be made into a weapon fearsome enough to justify the extreme price and inability to dock. After testing the new Supercarrier design several times on SISI over the last few weeks, I was still unconvinced the ship was effective enough as it remains one of the few ships in the game that can have its primary weapons taken away from it quite easily. But still, it was still a move in the right direction.
And then someone decided to nerf the damn thing back into uselessness before we even got to use it! This has got to be some kind of new record.
Really CCP, you need to get it into your heads that many players see cap warfare as EVE's endgame. They won't spend years and years paying for accounts, training up characters, and painstakingly building up in-game assets just to fly the same old ships as the noobs. People want an endgame! It is not unreasonable or "unbalanced" for players who have invested years in your game to demand rewards commensurate with that kind of investment. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that this habit of nerfing and pre-nerfing everything in the damn game into oblivion is beyond old. A lot of us are to the point where we're questioning whether it's really worth the time, energy and in-game currency to invest in anything in this game because it will likely just get snatched away at some point on the whim of some dev.
Come on CCP, you're supposed to be giving seasoned players more reasons to stick with EVE and keep playing. Instead, your intent seems to be to nerf every worthwhile investment in the game into complete uselessness. But if you're not real damn careful, you're going to end up nerfing EVE into uselessness.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:46:00 -
[411]
Despite all the rage, this isn't actually a bad change for prospective supercarrier pilots: if I had an extra character that was capable of flying momships/supercarriers, I'd be more inclined to buy one with new prices/capabilities, not less. After taking cost into account this isn't really a nerf at all (imho, I could easily be wrong of course).
Of course, everyone who currently has one is going to be extremely ticked off: weaker ship, loss of (effective) isk, other people having an easier time getting into the same toys (thus making them feel less special to those already in them). Honestly I'm surprised the tears aren't even more extreme,
Despite that, you (CCP) should not reimburse people for the patch change because it would break with practice in the past and add a certain unfair inconsistency: people aren't reimbursed when their ships are nerfed, for their trit when veld spawn rate increased, for their rigs on sub-BS ships when rig sizes were changed (and overall that probably whiped out tremendously more value than this change), etc. To reimburse for value changes based on nerfs/buffs for one specific time while generally not doing so would be pretty uncool.
However, you're going to hear louder and more vociferous complaints, and more of them on this one than other similar changes: because it effects a smaller group of people to a greater degree each.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:48:00 -
[412]
Originally by: Arcanim Al'Seif
Originally by: Shad0wsFury These emo tears are delicious.
Good thing that just like dreads/carriers you can dock them, allowing you to not have to use a garage account to stay in it permanently...no...wait...
]
Let's see. 50 people per alliance, $14.95 per account, plenty of alliances that's a good bit of coin, but this change is about 'balance'.
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VinceNoir
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:48:00 -
[413]
Being a mothership pilot myself, I find this a completely unacceptable change. You took the most highly praised change that was planned for Dominion and completely destroyed it. I did not invest my time to make 16b isk and finally get a Nyx just to have a Dev who has probably never experienced flying one himself to wave his hand and cut the price tag in half.
The changes that were announced at Fanfest were widely accepted as great changes to the game. Motherships were FINALLY going to be worth the price that so many of us paid for them. Now this Dev team is scrapping it to make a change that will just **** off every mothership pilot in this game. I suggest you fire the Dev who proposed this and revert back to the changes announced at Fanfest.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:51:00 -
[414]
What CCP doesnt realize enough imho is that these arent just the whines of some too-rich-for-their-own-good vets.
These people are (with the exception of the odd carebear that will not use the thing in combat anyway) often leaders in their respective communities and a good chunk of these ships are community projects even, a lot of combined effort and resources went into these ships and the means of building them, just removing this from the game without any form of reimbursement is a slap in the face to the very people that make this sandbox roll.
Do you really want to do that? Reimbursing the cost difference between now and then on ships and prolly BPOs (they are getting cheaper I assume?) is the least you should offer and you should offer it fast to appease the rightfully engraged.
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Mr Bright
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:53:00 -
[415]
is it just me or is everyone agreeing with each other for once?:D
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Kkhaarn
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:55:00 -
[416]
Looks like you can kiss this mom pilot good bye. Gonna unsub the account and get rid of the Wyvern. What a waste.
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:56:00 -
[417]
I like this change.
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dracice
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:58:00 -
[418]
i think currently w ith the amount of people who can afford motherships and replace them easily even at current prices. ccp forsees motherships online.
i forsee pandemic legion or IT alliance with like 50-100ms gangs, what kind of numbers could break that spider tank?
currently lets say with hp boost and a nice fit you have a 30m hp super carrier, imagine 20 of them spider tanking with carrier backup or triage backup.
the kinds of numbers people are gonna have to bring to beat that will again break the servers.
and then with 12k dps each? pwning dreads left right n centre.
the way i see it, they are not dreads yet there dps is almost up to a dread. second they have immunity to e-warfare, third huge HP over a dread, by itself a super carrier could probably kill 5-10 dreads before it died, but since i havent looked at actual maths and calculated it thats a guess based on the HP boost buffer.
thats the positive side still out of this whole thing.
the negetive of course is the value in isk players lose however that happens all the time etc etc, and well why is it different in this case?
theres still tech 2 bpos out there which others CANNOT get, an unfair advantage on what the devs want to be a level playing field.
another negetive is the 10 fighter/bomber thing. the more fighters or bombers you deployed the more an enemy have to do to kill your dps, id say give the super carrier a bonus to buff the HP on their fighters/bombers by like 20% per level. making them the equivelent of 20 in actual total HP.
because face it ccp if you are reading this, if you make their dps so easily destroyed (lol fighter HP) and LOL BOMBER HP and only 10 of them, what do they do when there damage on the field is destroyed? Press the start button on the stop watch and see how long it takes for their hp to melt while they are useless?
or give a mothership the ability to construct a fighter or bomber inside it like in starcraft :)
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:00:00 -
[419]
Originally by: Mr Bright is it just me or is everyone agreeing with each other for once?:D
we've pretty much all been agreeing with each other since the Dominion dev post last Friday. when IT Alliance dudes are empty quoting Atlas dudes who are empty quoting AAA dudes who are agreeing with The Mittani, something is seriously wrong and its not us.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Shigsy
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:00:00 -
[420]
Delete posts quicker, thread is still growing
Join "C&P" ingame! |
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:03:00 -
[421]
Edited by: Kel Arkir on 12/11/2009 20:03:42 Edited by: Kel Arkir on 12/11/2009 20:03:18 Just thinking about it, an idea formed in my mind to strip our motherships from fitting and commit ritual suicide to get atleast some isk back sunk into those useless pieces of scrapmetal.
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Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:03:00 -
[422]
GENIOUS, IT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.
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Chagaline
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:04:00 -
[423]
change this **** back to the original planned changes, everythig else is frakin bull!!
no way in hell you can justify a silly 10 bill loss like that, not all mom pilots are rich fawks=(
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Domoso
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:04:00 -
[424]
Quote: Damps got nerfed, Drones got nerfed, Nos got nerfed, speed got nerfed, cyno effect removed, ecm got nerfed, missles nerfed, scanner button nerfed, whats next ccp?
Looks like CCP's in it to nerf their player base.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:04:00 -
[425]
Originally by: Shigsy Delete posts quicker, thread is still growing
More posts to point out the stupidity of CCP nerfing what isn't broken.
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Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:05:00 -
[426]
This is a petition to make sure these changes dont happen.
Sign the petition! Everyone call out to your corps, call out your friends, hell call ginger magician if you think it will help. the 50 page csm petition got our directional scanners to 1.3 seconds, why cant we at least get 2.5 drones per level!
ok that was a joke but still. Sign the petition.
EVE HAS SPOKEN!
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casai
Caldari North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:05:00 -
[427]
Oh yer btw titans and there siege turrets with Target painter drones can one shot a fighter bomber soo u can loose all your fb in like 60 sec
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Ryan Powers
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:06:00 -
[428]
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Mr Bright is it just me or is everyone agreeing with each other for once?:D
we've pretty much all been agreeing with each other since the Dominion dev post last Friday. when IT Alliance dudes are empty quoting Atlas dudes who are empty quoting AAA dudes who are agreeing with The Mittani, something is seriously wrong and its not us.
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Qwertzl
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:06:00 -
[429]
CCP, this makes absolutely no sence at all.
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Jaron Terrkin
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:06:00 -
[430]
CCP can t be serious in that nerf...I belive it s a joke IT HAS TO BE A JOKE AAAAAAAAAAAAHHH
AHHHH
DON T DO THAT CCP -.-''
I promise i will cry....
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:11:00 -
[431]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Before you all start getting on Stevie's back over her post let me just clarify that you are well within your rights to use this thread to post constructive feedback. Posting flaming or trolling comments is not in keeping with the forum rules and any such posts may result in a warning or ban.
No one is saying not to express your opinion or provide feedback, but please do it within the rules of this forum. Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
OMG What a fail post, Heres my feedback, if these changes go live -4 accounts after 2 fanfests and úúúú's invested in skills and time am am sick of the BS Sort your crap out and stop been total fail.
P.S this years Fan fest was crap BTW
---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:12:00 -
[432]
Thank you CCP. I finally know what to do with the money I am saving for the Aeon. Faction ship market here i come.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:12:00 -
[433]
It's been 9 pages and no Dev has come back to say why Moms got nerfed. I wonder if that's because they just don't have one, except maybe to pad their wallets.
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Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:13:00 -
[434]
i was stockpiling mins to build a supercarrier, and was getting pretty close on the highends and midends. Now i am pretty close to having the minerals to build the future ones, but i'm really not interested.
thanks anyways ccp, keep up the terrible decision making
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Kalter Rouge
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:13:00 -
[435]
Ohh no. Wasn't the reason for boosting the supercarrier to get a ship who can counter that mass of capital ships on our field today? Whats the reason for nerfing that (suitable imho) boost?
Sorry for bad english.
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Ranko
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:18:00 -
[436]
So, whats the insurance value on the Nyx?
I may be detonating mine right before the patch, if these changes go ahead.
Thanks for making the Moms, even more nerfed then they are now.
10 times the cost of a carrier, for 2 times the bonuses, way to go CCP.
Pathetic, really pathetic CCP, your customers are up in arms about these proposed changes and yet you do not respond to them, answer their questions. Remind me please, how do you as a company stay in business.... ---
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:21:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Ranko Remind me please, how do you as a company stay in business....
because no one who threatens to cancel their accounts actually follow through
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Kkhaarn
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:23:00 -
[438]
I've been fartin' around with moms on SiSi for a few days now. Even damage fit on this maxed out character (Literally, most stuff at 5 on drones, engineering, ect ect) I was unable to "solo" a well tanked dread in siege. If they want an ANTI-CAP role, BUFF THE MOMS don't NERF them. But, as it's being shown by so many of their post deletions, they don't care, they won't care, and all they want is your money, be it isk or RL cash. I've never seen an MMO where the creators ignore critisim and don't even bother take it to heart how many older players they are ****ing off.
TBH this is a worse idea than charging 0.0 alliances both arms, both legs and their left peanut to maintain sov in a system for 30 days.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:23:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Ranko So, whats the insurance value on the Nyx?
I may be detonating mine right before the patch, if these changes go ahead.
That would be dumb: assuming there are enough available mothership alts to absorb the number being sold they should still go for 7-8bil with new prices, and thats a lowball guess.
They will be more worth flying for the (new and lower) isk after patch, and you still have value of minerals, value of bpc (almost 1bil), logistics, difficulty of building without sov4, etc. No sense in self destructing (but go and do it if you want, no one is stopping you).
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:23:00 -
[440]
I think By Dominion they Mean Unity, By in which their Patch will United all of 0.0 in a hate of the new patch....
This Change is not only unnecessary, it completely destroys hundreds of trillions in Invested Assets. Each Mothership/Super Carrier Pilot Just lost 10 Bil for their Ship 6-10 bil for their storage alt, 8-20 bil on their fittings (for a Over Sized meat Shield that had its claws clipped and teeth capped.)
All yall in Highsec that like the changes cause it will make them Much MUCH MUCH more common should really understand what that means. Imagine if they lowered the cost of CNR's to 300mil (though it would never happen just cause of the highsec tears) Or if they Spawned 100 more State Ravens. Rarity is Value, A reduction in Rarity means a reduction in value. Next titans will be 15 bil and all those titan pilots that spent 40-70 getting the ships and years of training will be all for nothing.
I mean do people really forget that a handful of AF's can kill all of a SC/MS pilots FB's in well quick time. Once they die then its fighters (if we have room), those will die quicker, then its drones and well now theres not super threat. With 20, the time to catch a kill all of them was decent enough that if you could maintain reasonable dps even if people were hunting your fb's. By decreasing them to 10, you made it so our Dps is 100% easier to destroy.
If youve ever flown Caps you'd know that when your fighters/fb's start dieing you pull em back thats a huge isk sink to let someone just pop all of them!
If Damage was the worry, Reduce the Fb's Damage output dont Cut the number of drones. 10 ECM drones is nowhere near as effective as 20, 10 Neut drones is nowhere near as effective as 20, and so on, and these arent even damage drones, then you must consider Rep drones, 10 vs 20. The Biggest attraction to the MS/SC was the 20 drones in space at one time. Yes, we all understand the huge hp boost and we thank you for it cause now we dont die the minute the dread gang looks at us. But you originally stated that you wanted the MS/SC to be a dps class ship, and we were all sure you understood the difference between straight dps and drone dps, and how drone dps can be dealt with quickly and leaves a ship defenseless one it has been dealt with.
So what i ask and im sure everyone prolly would agree with is Give MS/SC's back their mas 20 drones/fighters in space, and tone the Fb's Damage down alittle before ganking 10 of our babies right from us. Reason being if at the moment 20 fb's is Over powering, understandable, but 20 fighters isnt OP, 20 Heavies isnt OP, 20 Mediums, smalls, neuts, ecm, rep, tracking,dampening, sentries, webbing drones arent op. But by making all of them 10 you relegate the MS/SC to being a regular carrier with a new fighter that is ok at killing caps but will be targeted by small support, and a nice tank. So Cap Fc's will fly them so they dont do down when target calling starts but more than likely will be dual boxing as to be helpful with a dread alt.
20 Drones/Fighters = Ms/SC it is their Identity, and the reason a majority of people liked them.
Yes the Price change sucks from a personal standpoint but the problem i see comes from the straight deletion of eve Currency, as i said if there are 200 ms pilots in eve (not hard to believe with moms) thats 2 trillion isk in assets that just Disappears over patch day. Now since CCP stated that there were around 250 titans in Eve lets assume the number of MS doubles that. so 500 Now we are looking at 5 trillion isk lost, and thats if the loss is only 10 bil. Seeing as for the longest time they were priced at 18bil and your saying that the cost will be 5-6 that means it would be a loss of 12-13bil per ship, not to mention training time and the alts. At that loss rate it would be 6 tril to 6.5 tril in straight isk removed from the game due to value reduction.
But im Ranting There be my 2 cents
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ArmagedonLT
Amarr Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:24:00 -
[441]
wow, just f'ing wow.. Finding that moms are getting boosted, buying it and then finding that they're getting nerfed to **** and reduced in price! HELL YEAH, WAY TO GO CCP
Nice mothership! We will nerf it! Not so nice supercarrier! We will nerf it anyway!
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PreD eve
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:26:00 -
[442]
Edited by: PreD eve on 12/11/2009 20:27:02
I have a dream that one day i'll fly a mothership supercarrier
Now CCP have broken my dream...
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Kkhaarn
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:28:00 -
[443]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
Originally by: Ranko Remind me please, how do you as a company stay in business....
because no one who threatens to cancel their accounts actually follow through
Meh, they can consolidate accounts and pay less in the long run, leaving one account on a main account until the day hell freezes over and CCP actually does something right? Just a thought.
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Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:29:00 -
[444]
A petition signed by everyone in eve works more effectively than everyone QQ'ing.
Let your voices be heard, sign the petition,
Call your corp mates Send out the alliance mails Someone find Dark Shikari!
Please everyone think of chribba, whith this nerf, he wont be able to have his 10 alts with 20 mining drones each mining veldspar for the universe!!
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Rosur
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:31:00 -
[445]
Think CCP should just make supercarriers its own ship type(ship price inbetween dread price and mothership price) which can use Fighter Bombers and cant use fighters. Motherships can use Fighter bombers but they take the place of 2 fighters. Carriers stay the same.
Please resize your sig to less than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:33:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk It's been 9 pages and no Dev has come back to say why Moms got nerfed. I wonder if that's because they just don't have one, except maybe to pad their wallets.
how does nerfing something help pad their wallets? god you're a friggin idiot
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apolloedv
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:33:00 -
[447]
TIME FOR SELFDESTRUCT THE MoMs
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MacArvid
Gallente M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:34:00 -
[448]
Cheaper moms....well that might be a good idea.....to bad u **** up every mom pilot that allready got one. Its not like its 100 mil or so its about 10 bill per ship.
I do hope that u guys will give existing pilots isk back or maybe il wake up with 2 more moms in my hangar.
I spent over a year gathering isk to get that mom. They i discovered that i didnt get a ship worth 15 bil. So i stored that ship on another account for that day a patch would come so it actully be worth flying it. A month a go it came WOOHOO i will take my mom out. Then u do this **** to me.
PS anyone wants to buy a Nyx...12 bil DS
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:35:00 -
[449]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Before you all start getting on Stevie's back over her post let me just clarify that you are well within your rights to use this thread to post constructive feedback. Posting flaming or trolling comments is not in keeping with the forum rules and any such posts may result in a warning or ban.
No one is saying not to express your opinion or provide feedback, but please do it within the rules of this forum. Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
Im not sure if im Right here but i think What Navi is saying is the CCP "Community" Team doesnt make Game design Decisions and therefore wont comment on them directly.... But i could be wrong.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:40:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk It's been 9 pages and no Dev has come back to say why Moms got nerfed. I wonder if that's because they just don't have one, except maybe to pad their wallets.
how does nerfing something help pad their wallets? god you're a friggin idiot
If you need twice as many for the same effect, that's twice as many holding accounts. Guess what, each of those accounts. Way to do math, dumbass. Now shut the **** up and post some where where your low IQ fits in troll.
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Quadratko
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:41:00 -
[451]
Even w/o any other changes - the ship called as 'supercarrier' is already nature's error.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:46:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Rosur Think CCP should just make supercarriers its own ship type(ship price inbetween dread price and mothership price) which can use Fighter Bombers and cant use fighters. Motherships can use Fighter bombers but they take the place of 2 fighters. Carriers stay the same.
That won't work. It requires effort and would be an exciting addition to the game, so it really isn't an option. I know we ***** about people wanting to add ships to the game when there isn't a clear role for them, but it doesn't seem to be the case here. The only reasons this wasn't done, that I can think of, is it required effort or CCP decided that the new MS was overpowered regardless of the fact, that people wheren't whining about it.
@CCP: You might want to re-evaluate your policy of making radical and un-announced changes to publicly available and tested designs so close to release. It just negates all the previous hard work and testing you and the players have done, causes a lot of waste in time, effort and resources and creates a lot of bad will against you.
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:50:00 -
[453]
ARGH IM SO MAD I JUST DROVE MY TRUCK INTO A TREE AND SPIT ON THE SIDEWALK OVER THIS!!!!!
Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:53:00 -
[454]
CCP might just be looking for a way to kill supercaps in a slow and painfull way..
Get it over with and remove them from the game if that indeed is your plan. And those that have them.. give them a nice chunk of isk
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meanato
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:55:00 -
[455]
super carriers or mom's should be a ho sh** when on the field, the dreads and the titans need to feel a cold shiver down their spines, with the 20 fighterbombers this was the case, now we have 10... 15 if you gimp fit it the feeling is not so much
i love my s/c but I feel that if this is the way its going then you wont see s/c on the field you will just see tons of titans.
if this change stay's then most people will dock them ( if we can ) insure then explode them. killing off yet another ship class i.e assault frigs to name one.
then ccp will come out next year and say " new s/c boost" you can now control 3 fighters per lvl and everyone will be like woooooo shiny. and forget about this post lol.
at the end of the day they need to change it back as they can see how much it has, well for lack of a better saying " unleashed the emo is all of us" and they can see how much this is getting to us. i hope that ccp will comment soon as this is getting a lil stupid. as this thread is getting bigger by the minuet and they seem to think that stfu is a good option, please ccp give US SOME FEED BACK thanks
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karnor hulltanker
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:01:00 -
[456]
THANKS A LOT CCP
YOU HAVE FINALLY GIVEN ME THE MOTIVATION TO GET RID OF THIS LIFE DRAIN CALLED EVE \0/
I have worked painfully hard past few months to make billions of isk and bought
Parking Char + Mods + Slaves + (oh yes!) a Nyx
and also paid top $ (grand total of around 30 bil) for all that, just to get kicked in the crotch.
Anyways, this aint an emo-rage quit scenario, I have always thought about quitting EVE and getting back to RL (im sure like many of you) but never got around to doing it. BUT....this...this is the final nail and if it goes thru I'm sure in the end I won't regret it
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Rebnott Valeri
Scoopex
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:01:00 -
[457]
So CCP, how are you going to reimburse current owners of a Mothership/Supercarrier?
The first ideas about reducing the costs was about 2 bil or something, not 9 bil!
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:06:00 -
[458]
Originally by: Ranko So, whats the insurance value on the Nyx?
You could always look into that suggestion that was made earlier: petition to get it moved to a station for some bogus reason (wanting to insure it), then accidentally hit the recycle/refine button instead…
I'm willing to bet that you'd get more from the parts than the insurance. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:06:00 -
[459]
if by 'drone control units are currently broken' you mean that you're buffing them to give +3 or +5 drones/fighters per level, then this is just about salvagable. It would still be a pointless and silly change and would just mean every supercarrier pilot throwing 2 or 3 DCUs on their ship, but at least we could undo the bulk of the damage this nonsense will cause.
If not you're all dumb as hell and can't even be trusted to make drawings with the orange crayons let alone responsible for design decision on a major MMO.
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Dani Leone
Gallente How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:07:00 -
[460]
Well, it's hardly unprecedented for CCP to do the dirty and pre-nerf pre-patch, but considering the actual excitement in the playerbase at the thought of moms being useful (death machines like they always should have been) and the sov changes (looked fun enough for me to even try and persuade my old ally to have a go) I am actually surprised at this turnaround.
The fact that the now removed changes had been on sisi for weeks and even lazy gets like me loaded up sisi and went and enjoyed a little play with the new toys, and it being obvious that production was ramping up on TQ and trade in MS and pilots increasing.
To then drop this in, with no actual testing, no desire for feedback, just a 'suck on this' attitude from Nozh (I'm increasingly convinced Nozh is a shared troll account who is run out whenever unpopular/******ed changes are made).
Followed up with a 'humorous' troll post from Navi telling us that our feedback is unwanted/needed/wont be listened to anyway, so please all be polite in our comments (that aren't worth reading or responding to anyway).
Just what are you really doing guys? When I see the mittani unmasked as someone who actually cares about the game and making serious posts, with pilots from all the other major and most minor alliances agreeing with him fully, I'm wondering if I've somehow slipped across a polycosmic boundary.
From a long term player, who came back from a lengthy break just a few weeks back, in anticipation of this patch, I have to ask, why on earth are you doing your level best to disappoint us?
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:07:00 -
[461]
Once upon a time, there was a MMO developer named CCP. It was a small organization, who had the incredible vision to make one of the most epic sandbox games in the world. In fact, you could say that it is the most in depth game ever created, and you'd be right. But something began to go wrong, because the senior CCP members with this vision slowly started to filter out, and the newbies began to run the company. Over time, the vision changed, and here we are today, playing a game run by a massive company for profit rather than fun. I wish we still had competent devs in charge of balancing my EvE, but maybe they're on CCP's new A project, DUST, a new console title. I can only hope that DUST turns out to be epic, and that epicness justifies giving my EvE the Bteam devs.
To be more specific CCP, you need to fire some people. Balance is not about changing things around till they work, it's not about creating new ship classes to cover your mistakes, it's about looking at each ship individually, with regard to the way the game is played, then looking forward to the future, and trying to give us a balance of stats. There was once a time when you were in contact with the people who really played this game, and balanced it based on what they said. Now that's gone. CCP and EvE are 2 separate communities now, and I don't think there's any going back. You'd have to get ingame with your dev characters and fly around talking to people or something. Ya, no chance of that.
Once, you would have fixed your existing stuff before trying to create new stuff. Now, you either leave the existing broken stuff alone in favor of new shiny stuff, or you replace the broken stuff with new shiny stuff. You need a wakeup call, and I think that this patch may be it for you. The problem is, by the time most game developers finally come around and realize that they've well and truly ****ed their game over, it's too late.
If this goes through, I'll prolly be retiring. Not because I own a mothership, but because every single patch in the past 2-3 years has been about adding new stuff to attract more players. You've not tried to keep your existing ones. Fix the game for us loyal customers, or good luck getting new people to play. It's not that this 1 nerf is the end of the game. It's the unending stream of incompetence we see from you CCP that makes us want to find something else. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:09:00 -
[462]
Originally by: karnor hulltanker THANKS A LOT CCP
YOU HAVE FINALLY GIVEN ME THE MOTIVATION TO GET RID OF THIS LIFE DRAIN CALLED EVE \0/
I have worked painfully hard past few months to make billions of isk and bought
Parking Char + Mods + Slaves + (oh yes!) a Nyx
and also paid top $ (grand total of around 30 bil) for all that, just to get kicked in the crotch.
Anyways, this aint an emo-rage quit scenario, I have always thought about quitting EVE and getting back to RL (im sure like many of you) but never got around to doing it. BUT....this...this is the final nail and if it goes thru I'm sure in the end I won't regret it
PLease sir, may you relocate your stuff's into a contract designated to me? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Sha Kharn
Minmatar Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:12:00 -
[463]
lol chill guys this Nozh guy is either joking or a little ******ed. Im sure its just a joke.
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Murixo
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:12:00 -
[464]
Originally by: karnor hulltanker THANKS A LOT CCP
YOU HAVE FINALLY GIVEN ME THE MOTIVATION TO GET RID OF THIS LIFE DRAIN CALLED EVE \0/
I have worked painfully hard past few months to make billions of isk and bought
Parking Char + Mods + Slaves + (oh yes!) a Nyx
and also paid top $ (grand total of around 30 bil) for all that, just to get kicked in the crotch.
I did exactly that but with a Wyvern! What a bunch of fail changes. Also the face that Stevie and Navigator felt the need to post as they did (back on p. 10?) should be telling the devs something of the popularity of this idea.
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Adam C
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:14:00 -
[465]
Looking forward to finally being able to afford a mother-ship. -- So I can self-destruct it.
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:15:00 -
[466]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
Intentional.
I think you missed the definition of intentional. You must be confused or something.
ûadjective 1. done with intention or on purpose; intended: an intentional insult.
You couldnt on purpose make something do 1/3 the damage for no reason when pretty much everyone agreed that it was pretty damn balanced.
Quote: Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
So anyone with a mothership now or in the near future. Automatically loses billions of isk. Because you say so?
Quote: What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost
1. You had an anti-capital ship/role. The motherships were balanced well. You just nerfed them. They certainly wont be used as anti-capital now because sov 4 invulnerability is disappearing relative to this? LAUGH. 2. Also wtf is a mothership "fitted for damage" Are you creating some new modules that bonus drone damage? 3. "additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost" . Wait 40% cheaper and how much of a hitpoint boost? Or do you speak of the previous hp boost? If that's it? HAAAAH talk about a ship that'd never be used.
Quote: The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
So fighter bombers are going to become assignable? Because before they were not assignable. Meaning they DID need to be commited to a battle. Immune to ewar is meaningless when dictors and hictors are so common.
Quote: By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
Tell me. As you have access to those magic snapshots. How many motherships have drone control units fit?
Also the factor that you just epically nerfed the number of all the other drones. That's just stupid.
As a carrier pilot who dabbles with motherships on sisi. I can assure you. These changes are terrible.
Also. In b4 warning/ban from forum for giving my opinion on the forum. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:15:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat Once upon a time, there was a MMO developer named CCP. It was a small organization, who had the incredible vision to make one of the most epic sandbox games in the world. In fact, you could say that it is the most in depth game ever created, and you'd be right. But something began to go wrong, because the senior CCP members with this vision slowly started to filter out, and the newbies began to run the company. Over time, the vision changed, and here we are today, playing a game run by a massive company for profit rather than fun. I wish we still had competent devs in charge of balancing my EvE, but maybe they're on CCP's new A project, DUST, a new console title. I can only hope that DUST turns out to be epic, and that epicness justifies giving my EvE the Bteam devs.
To be more specific CCP, you need to fire some people. Balance is not about changing things around till they work, it's not about creating new ship classes to cover your mistakes, it's about looking at each ship individually, with regard to the way the game is played, then looking forward to the future, and trying to give us a balance of stats. There was once a time when you were in contact with the people who really played this game, and balanced it based on what they said. Now that's gone. CCP and EvE are 2 separate communities now, and I don't think there's any going back. You'd have to get ingame with your dev characters and fly around talking to people or something. Ya, no chance of that.
Once, you would have fixed your existing stuff before trying to create new stuff. Now, you either leave the existing broken stuff alone in favor of new shiny stuff, or you replace the broken stuff with new shiny stuff. You need a wakeup call, and I think that this patch may be it for you. The problem is, by the time most game developers finally come around and realize that they've well and truly ****ed their game over, it's too late.
If this goes through, I'll prolly be retiring. Not because I own a mothership, but because every single patch in the past 2-3 years has been about adding new stuff to attract more players. You've not tried to keep your existing ones. Fix the game for us loyal customers, or good luck getting new people to play. It's not that this 1 nerf is the end of the game. It's the unending stream of incompetence we see from you CCP that makes us want to find something else.
This is an excellent post and sums up my feelings pretty effectively.
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Peraxx
Peraxx Lottery Corp.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:17:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat Once upon a time, there was a MMO developer named CCP. It was a small organization, who had the incredible vision to make one of the most epic sandbox games in the world. In fact, you could say that it is the most in depth game ever created, and you'd be right. But something began to go wrong, because the senior CCP members with this vision slowly started to filter out, and the newbies began to run the company. Over time, the vision changed, and here we are today, playing a game run by a massive company for profit rather than fun. I wish we still had competent devs in charge of balancing my EvE, but maybe they're on CCP's new A project, DUST, a new console title. I can only hope that DUST turns out to be epic, and that epicness justifies giving my EvE the Bteam devs.
To be more specific CCP, you need to fire some people. Balance is not about changing things around till they work, it's not about creating new ship classes to cover your mistakes, it's about looking at each ship individually, with regard to the way the game is played, then looking forward to the future, and trying to give us a balance of stats. There was once a time when you were in contact with the people who really played this game, and balanced it based on what they said. Now that's gone. CCP and EvE are 2 separate communities now, and I don't think there's any going back. You'd have to get ingame with your dev characters and fly around talking to people or something. Ya, no chance of that.
Once, you would have fixed your existing stuff before trying to create new stuff. Now, you either leave the existing broken stuff alone in favor of new shiny stuff, or you replace the broken stuff with new shiny stuff. You need a wakeup call, and I think that this patch may be it for you. The problem is, by the time most game developers finally come around and realize that they've well and truly ****ed their game over, it's too late.
If this goes through, I'll prolly be retiring. Not because I own a mothership, but because every single patch in the past 2-3 years has been about adding new stuff to attract more players. You've not tried to keep your existing ones. Fix the game for us loyal customers, or good luck getting new people to play. It's not that this 1 nerf is the end of the game. It's the unending stream of incompetence we see from you CCP that makes us want to find something else.
This is an excellent post and sums up my feelings pretty effectively.
Quoting this for truth.
Linkage |
Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:18:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat Once upon a time, there was a MMO developer named CCP. It was a small organization, who had the incredible vision to make one of the most epic sandbox games in the world. In fact, you could say that it is the most in depth game ever created, and you'd be right. But something began to go wrong, because the senior CCP members with this vision slowly started to filter out, and the newbies began to run the company. Over time, the vision changed, and here we are today, playing a game run by a massive company for profit rather than fun. I wish we still had competent devs in charge of balancing my EvE, but maybe they're on CCP's new A project, DUST, a new console title. I can only hope that DUST turns out to be epic, and that epicness justifies giving my EvE the Bteam devs.
To be more specific CCP, you need to fire some people. Balance is not about changing things around till they work, it's not about creating new ship classes to cover your mistakes, it's about looking at each ship individually, with regard to the way the game is played, then looking forward to the future, and trying to give us a balance of stats. There was once a time when you were in contact with the people who really played this game, and balanced it based on what they said. Now that's gone. CCP and EvE are 2 separate communities now, and I don't think there's any going back. You'd have to get ingame with your dev characters and fly around talking to people or something. Ya, no chance of that.
Once, you would have fixed your existing stuff before trying to create new stuff. Now, you either leave the existing broken stuff alone in favor of new shiny stuff, or you replace the broken stuff with new shiny stuff. You need a wakeup call, and I think that this patch may be it for you. The problem is, by the time most game developers finally come around and realize that they've well and truly ****ed their game over, it's too late.
If this goes through, I'll prolly be retiring. Not because I own a mothership, but because every single patch in the past 2-3 years has been about adding new stuff to attract more players. You've not tried to keep your existing ones. Fix the game for us loyal customers, or good luck getting new people to play. It's not that this 1 nerf is the end of the game. It's the unending stream of incompetence we see from you CCP that makes us want to find something else.
QTF.
Not even funny CCP, you don't have any respect for your customers.
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Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:18:00 -
[470]
paging John Smedley to this thread...paging John Smedley to this thread.
Putting aside the monumentally poor way this has been handled (are you sure Nozh isnt Smedley in disguise?) you should sit back and take a good long think about what your paying customers are telling you CCP. For the most part MS pilots have been in the game for a long time and have more than one account. These pilots know the game and have invested significant sums of real money paying to play.
Do you genuinely think an appropriate way to treat your customers is to take 10Bn or so in assets off them and leave them with an almost worthless ship??
Im actually genuinely interested whether you think this represents equitable treatment of your customer base?
I also wonder how Seleene feels now, talk about having the rug pulled from underneath you...way to motivate your staff guys.
Take 5 mins - someone find the number for Sony Interactive Entertainment and talk to them about the consequences of ignoring their customer base...or Google the NGE, it might prove illuminating.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:21:00 -
[471]
More pages without any response from CCP as to why these ships were nerfed. Keep on ignoring the problem. I'm sure if you don't look at the thread with your ****ed off customer base then they will just stop complaining. amirite?
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DeTox MinRohim
Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:22:00 -
[472]
------ This sig space is Read-only ! omgalink - Online Skillsheet |
Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:26:00 -
[473]
as a long time owner of a nyx i feel for all the people who bought them after CCP told us they were getting a boost. hell t2 fitted nyx were selling for 20bil on the forums a few weeks back and today we're being told they're not even going to be worth half that.
Real low CCP.... real low.
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Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:27:00 -
[474]
has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
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Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:28:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
No because its not a good thing. ----------------------------------------------- Vader Wills It!
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:29:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
A few suspected troll alts but otherwise none. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:29:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
I believe I did see one or two a few pages or so ago, that mythical creature did however get trampled under the tidal-wave of hate.
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tikki
T-Wrecks Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:29:00 -
[478]
adding my name to this petition thread!
Obviously as a mom owner I'm not happy at the imminent loss my hard earned isk but also....
What exactly is the purpose of a super carrier, I just don't get the logic. Either make it a genuine offensive weapon (as it was with the fighter bombers) or make it a "super" support craft, which I would think actually makes more sense anyway. My mom and it's pilot will now serve no purpose, very sad indeed
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:32:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Ragel Tropxe (are you sure Nozh isnt Smedley in disguise?)
I've seen both Nozh and Smedley, and I'm going to guess "no" on that one…
…but maybe some kind of close cousin? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Cain Negestor
Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:35:00 -
[480]
Sooo seeing as i wont use my Hel with these changes at all besides trophy (as i have done for....uhm since i had it), can i get the option to keep it at pre-Dominion state just to prove i actually had it from before Failminion and that i actually paid the 16 bil+?
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:36:00 -
[481]
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
A decent number. The vast majority of people posting here are pretty ******ed considering that despite the 'nerf', they're still getting boosted significantly, and furthermore that the devblog that they said they were working on in regards to this change has not been posted yet, likely explaining what their plans are.
Keep in mind this is the change from current live to Dominion:
Pros: 10x EHP Build cost slashed to 5-6b New weapon system (and significantly more DPS in an anti-capital role)
Cons: Reduced defense/offense against smaller ships Removal of modules nobody used on a mothership
It's a pretty MASSIVE buff compared to live. CCP clearly doesn't want Moms/Titans (who got a weapon nerf as well) flying around blowing up capitals solo, which they would have been able to do quite easily.
Frankly they'll probably reduce Titan production costs as well with the removal of an AoE DDD.
I'd like to again recommend waiting for the official devblog on the changes, but feel free to cancel your accounts.
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Umbrellaface
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:37:00 -
[482]
It amazes me time and time again that so many CCP employees are clueless about their own game!
Once upon a time I petitioned about remote repair mechanics. Everyone who has flown a logistics ship or remote repair battleship knows that repairing someone does not prevent you from jumping through a gate. CCP told me time and time again that repairing does, in fact, prevent you from jumping. I tested myself. I asked others. Everyone except CCP agreed: you can jump as long as you don't use some sort of aggressive module (gun, launcher, nos, neut, smartbomb, target painter, etc). I petitioned more. I was referred to outdated guides which had no info about remote repair mechanics. I petitioned more. CCP claimed they did their own testing and were unable to jump but wouldn't provide any sort of proof whatsoever of their claims. Yeah, right.
Then they release information about Dominion. EVERYONE rejoices that sov warfare is going to become less painful. Perhaps people are split on some of the issues like removing doomsdays. Most people like that 0.0 would become more accessible for the fledgling sov-holder under the new mechanics. So then CCP decides that they aren't going to use some sort of non-linear system for sov/upgrades. The costs become prohibitive for small aliances and the costs become enormous for large alliances. But you benefit a lot with all of the promised cool upgrades, right? No. The upgrades blow. Rage ensues on forum. CCP realizes they had no clue (do they even do any math before they release these figures?) and adjusts the initial figures.
People were so excited about supercarriers when they were first envisioned: Finally that mothership that has been parked in a POS on an alt could be used. Fighter bombers, wow those are cool and they do huge damage versus other capital ships. They're still expensive and still tie up a character but at least they are worth flying! You see some reward for that risk! Then we get this wonderful supercarrier information--people that already own them are getting screwed by the reduced base cost. People that want to fly them are disenchanted by seeing that they are now, once again, a slightly glorified carrier.
I understand that things won't always be perfect upon release but how can CCP time and time again be so out of touch with their own game? Whether it's a mechanic that the GMs are clueless about or whether it's a potential feature that's totally off base--leave it to CCP to botch it.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:37:00 -
[483]
april fools was 7 months ago CCP. keep up guys!
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:39:00 -
[484]
The changes did occur on the 11.11.
This time marks the begin of the carnival season.
So it might be indeed a joke.
Sad thing is - and the high ranks of CCP should really worry about that - that most of the playerbase could absolutely believe CCP doing such crap for real (me inculding).
A lot of people lost faith in CCP and they don't trust the devs any more that they can make good game design decisions.
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:46:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Gnulpie The changes did occur on the 11.11.
This time marks the begin of the carnival season.
So it might be indeed a joke.
Sad thing is - and the high ranks of CCP should really worry about that - that most of the playerbase could absolutely believe CCP doing such crap for real (me inculding).
A lot of people lost faith in CCP and they don't trust the devs any more that they can make good game design decisions.
By most of the playerbase you mean the 0.002% of people who fly these ships, right?
But no, obviously CCP loves to pull fast ones on people for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL, right? Clearly they did this for fun, and don't have any long term plans that will result in rebalancings such as this prior in order to pave the way! They have no clue what they're doing, despite being pretty successful for the past 6+ years of this game. The random stupid idiots know better! Post more, because we are the armchair developers!
Bunch of morons the lot of you. Calm down instead of FROTHING AT THE MOUTH RAGE RARARA.
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Ridjeck Thome
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:46:00 -
[486]
Edited by: Ridjeck Thome on 12/11/2009 21:46:23 WTG CCP - fire and forget.......
Give the bombshell and leave us paying customers wondering WTH is going on. Dont play the 'but we've gone home lark' on us - any sane company would be ab le to give the ENTIRE STORY - including Nozh's fabled 'dev blog soon' (tm, CCP 2004-2009), when yuo drop something as crappy as this on us. If you want, you can go to the next level and try texting us all these things and taking the phone off the hook...
Mind you, good luck explaining why Ive lost 10+bn isk and invested all that time in training a mothership pilot alt. Star Wars: The Old Republic is on its way from the shop (ordered tonight). Do you REALLY think that people will invest a character to sit trapped permanently in these planned 'crappycarriers?'
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:47:00 -
[487]
C/D: Ninja nerfing a ship that just received what was considered a good and fair boost then fabricating some 'shooting moving capitals. lol.' role to try to bull**** your way through player outrage is pro PR.
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:48:00 -
[488]
Originally by: The Internets
Pros: Build cost slashed to 5-6b
WRONG it is game breaking. Affordeble EWAR immune rampaging herds of RR AEON's is what we will see in 6 months and the nerf bat will be swong agian.. I cant think of any likely scenarios thay would be able to break a lets say 50man AEON fleet
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:49:00 -
[489]
Originally by: The Internets .....
Either a bad troll, or you're exceedingly ******ed. Or maybe you haven't been playing for long, it's ok. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:51:00 -
[490]
Edited by: Graalum on 12/11/2009 21:54:51
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
A decent number. The vast majority of people posting here are pretty ******ed considering that despite the 'nerf', they're still getting boosted significantly, and furthermore that the devblog that they said they were working on in regards to this change has not been posted yet, likely explaining what their plans are.
Don't you think 2 weeks before patch is a bit late to be making massive changes to something that had previously been a settled issue, that most people were excited about?
Quote: Keep in mind this is the change from current live to Dominion:
Pros: 10x EHP Build cost slashed to 5-6b New weapon system (and significantly more DPS in an anti-capital role)
keep in minds that according to ccp stats there are on average 400 of these logged in at once, so there are probably several thousand in existence (unless i saw the stats wrong), the value of these existant ships is being changed radically and without warning or explanation.
The new weapon system is of limted value, since capital on capital engagements are a once a month type event (if not less frequent), the rest of the time these ships are no better than carriers. Furthermore, the stats being tossed around by the dev in question involves the fitting of several modules (DCU's lol) that noone has fitted in years, and in doing so is a nerf to the survivability of these ships.
Quote: Cons: Reduced defense/offense against smaller ships Removal of modules nobody used on a mothership
It's a pretty MASSIVE buff compared to live. CCP clearly doesn't want Moms/Titans (who got a weapon nerf as well) flying around blowing up capitals solo, which they would have been able to do quite easily.
In most cases, i think that live motherships are superior to test, with the rare exception of cap fights. And in that case, what are you going to fly, the fully insurable, instant damage dread, or the giant easily neutralized brick?
Quote: Frankly they'll probably reduce Titan production costs as well with the removal of an AoE DDD.
and this would be an equally stupid idea. The answer to overnerfing a ship is not to kill the price of all the ones already in existence, its to boost them so that they are worth the investment people *already* made.
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Gnulpie The changes did occur on the 11.11.
This time marks the begin of the carnival season.
So it might be indeed a joke.
Sad thing is - and the high ranks of CCP should really worry about that - that most of the playerbase could absolutely believe CCP doing such crap for real (me inculding).
A lot of people lost faith in CCP and they don't trust the devs any more that they can make good game design decisions.
By most of the playerbase you mean the 0.002% of people who fly these ships, right?
But no, obviously CCP loves to pull fast ones on people for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL, right? Clearly they did this for fun, and don't have any long term plans that will result in rebalancings such as this prior in order to pave the way! They have no clue what they're doing, despite being pretty successful for the past 6+ years of this game. The random stupid idiots know better! Post more, because we are the armchair developers!
Bunch of morons the lot of you. Calm down instead of FROTHING AT THE MOUTH RAGE RARARA.
lol you must not have been playing this game for long, most or all the current problems with this game are because of decisions ccp made despite player rage. They have very little credibility to work with at this point.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:55:00 -
[491]
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Gnulpie The changes did occur on the 11.11.
This time marks the begin of the carnival season.
So it might be indeed a joke.
Sad thing is - and the high ranks of CCP should really worry about that - that most of the playerbase could absolutely believe CCP doing such crap for real (me inculding).
A lot of people lost faith in CCP and they don't trust the devs any more that they can make good game design decisions.
By most of the playerbase you mean the 0.002% of people who fly these ships, right?
But no, obviously CCP loves to pull fast ones on people for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL, right? Clearly they did this for fun, and don't have any long term plans that will result in rebalancings such as this prior in order to pave the way! They have no clue what they're doing, despite being pretty successful for the past 6+ years of this game. The random stupid idiots know better! Post more, because we are the armchair developers!
Bunch of morons the lot of you. Calm down instead of FROTHING AT THE MOUTH RAGE RARARA.
Hi, Mr.Troll. Nice to see you. Let me ask you a question. Do your mommy and daddy know that your using their computer? No. Well maybe you should get off and leave the discussion to the grown ups. Thank you.
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Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Hellstrome Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:57:00 -
[492]
How can CCP prevent ****-storms like this from happening again?
After searching deep within my heart, I have found the one answer to answer them all!
FREE MITNAL!
Yes, bring back consumer relations - bring back GMs/dev/etc that had people skills and had the community liking them. Get decent GMs + procedures so that petitioning will actually be something players do and not ***** about. Spend less time on the bling and more time on real content - as much as we like all the CCP songs/movies/etc, id rather see actual real changes to gameplay over a 5 minute laugh. Same for game design - Id rather see the game mechanics changes take precedence over making star or planets or whatever look better. Eve was fine even when it looked like pixelated ****s floating in space.
TL;DR for you CCP guys - People skills + warm attitude + making the players feel they are actually worth something more than 15$ a month >>>>>>>> anything else. And you guys seem to have forgotten that. "Family business" my ass - more like big ass conglomerate who doesn't give a ****.
Oh well, atleast we always have bioware. =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:57:00 -
[493]
what if.... carrier level added +1 and DCU added +2 or +3? - putting the gist back into logistics |
The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:58:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
Originally by: The Internets .....
Either a bad troll, or you're exceedingly ******ed. Or maybe you haven't been playing for long, it's ok.
I'm not a part of the group of children screaming that their toys have been taken away before any concrete explanation (re. the devblog) has been offered.
Newsflash, supercarriers are receiving large buffs compared to their current live incarnations. The fact that they're not as amazing as you thought they were previously does not invalidate this fact.
And a 5-6b production cost doesn't mean that everyone and their dog will be flying one. They're still incapable of docking and require solid logistics to produce. Plus should fleets of these appear, they're bound to run into eachother and cause very expensive fleet fights. The same thing was said about battleships years ago when EVE was new.
And I'm not trolling, you people are overreacting. CCP has not yet provided their reasoning or justification for these changes but have said they will do so. Knee-jerk reactions and threats of account cancellation are idiotic when you're in the dark still and have absolutely no idea about the bigger picture.
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Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:01:00 -
[495]
Edited by: Grekken on 12/11/2009 22:03:35 Edited by: Grekken on 12/11/2009 22:02:36 Locked. Spam.
Test Server Feedback is not the place for this. Jita Park Speaker's Corner would be more appropriate if you wish to bring this up with the CSM.
WTF IS THIS BULL S***. He locked the thred for the Petition.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1213351&page=11 ----------------------------------------------- Vader Wills It!
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:01:00 -
[496]
The Petition thread has been locked as Spam... .. .........
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Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:02:00 -
[497]
Edited by: Graalum on 12/11/2009 22:06:00 Linkage
this is the test server feedback forum. You are getting feedback from players, it is not spam.
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
Originally by: The Internets .....
Either a bad troll, or you're exceedingly ******ed. Or maybe you haven't been playing for long, it's ok.
I'm not a part of the group of children screaming that their toys have been taken away before any concrete explanation (re. the devblog) has been offered.
most of the peopel responding in this thread do not have motherships.
Quote: Newsflash, supercarriers are receiving large buffs compared to their current live incarnations. The fact that they're not as amazing as you thought they were previously does not invalidate this fact.
there are also receiving very strong nerfs as well.
Quote: And a 5-6b production cost doesn't mean that everyone and their dog will be flying one. They're still incapable of docking and require solid logistics to produce. Plus should fleets of these appear, they're bound to run into eachother and cause very expensive fleet fights. The same thing was said about battleships years ago when EVE was new.
Noone will want these because they can't dock and they have no role that isn't already being done better by another ship.
Quote: And I'm not trolling, you people are overreacting. CCP has not yet provided their reasoning or justification for these changes but have said they will do so. Knee-jerk reactions and threats of account cancellation are idiotic when you're in the dark still and have absolutely no idea about the bigger picture.
If ccp had brains they would make an announcement about the changes when they make the changes, not wait for player rage.
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:03:00 -
[498]
LOL.
I guess that CCP dude dont have a degree in PR
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BANDIT BACKDOOR
Minmatar Minmatar Gay Slave Right League
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:05:00 -
[499]
Originally by: Grekken Edited by: Grekken on 12/11/2009 22:02:36 Locked. Spam.
Test Server Feedback is not the place for this. Jita Park Speaker's Corner would be more appropriate if you wish to bring this up with the CSM.
WTF IS THIS BULL S***. He locked the thred for the Petition.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1213351&page=11
He could have just moved to jita park - but ofc he locks it. HES THE Z-MAN!!!!! Most hated of all :P
Looks like CCP is trying to silence any dissent - they did the same when we *****ed about the moderation in C&P ruining the forum, and they'll do it again any time they dont like what we have to say. Pretty sleek move CCP, its sure to quiet down the **** storm!!!
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:06:00 -
[500]
theres also the little problem that fighterbombers wont do full damage to a sieged dread
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
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Seneram
Caldari B'haxed Productions The Dominium
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:06:00 -
[501]
Oh come on they locked the damn thread?!?!?! I was about to sign it for the damn cause and that i have been skilling to become a Mom eventually a titan pilot.. That is all down the drain now i am actually thinking about quitting eve, Just about five days ago i said "Ill quit eve the day hell freezes over" And i gotta say... I feel quite cold ATM... Did hell freeze over? ------------------------------------------------- PewPew |
The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:08:00 -
[502]
Edited by: The Internets on 12/11/2009 22:08:31
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Hi, Mr.Troll. Nice to see you. Let me ask you a question. Do your mommy and daddy know that your using their computer? No. Well maybe you should get off and leave the discussion to the grown ups. Thank you.
Since you must be illiterate, I am advocating that the doomsayers in this thread wait for CCP's official devblog explaining their reasoning comes out before declaring the end of the world, since the nerdrage in this thread at this moment in time is based off of incredibly little information.
What if CCP just wants to set some specific roles to capitals because they're planning on introducing T2 caps in the next expansion? Making supercarriers a mobile anti-capital platform while a mothership replacement is being designed? Etc? The thing is you don't know, so calm down and wait for a real answer. You people are the ones kicking and screaming; who are the children here?
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matrix666
Gallente X.S. Industries Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:11:00 -
[503]
Edited by: matrix666 on 12/11/2009 22:11:45 Surely a petion is customer feedback? FOR STUFF ON THE TEST SERVER THIS MUST BE THE BEST PLACE! And yes i did recently buy a Nyx on another accounts for the patch! Re-fund on the 8 billion isk my ship will loose, do i petion for it?
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Caylle
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:11:00 -
[504]
I love the new changes! Halving the production costs and doubling the HP is brilliant. I do think that they should have the same traits as carriers though, being able to delegate fighters and bombers and being able to use triage being the most important.
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Tinator
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:11:00 -
[505]
Originally by: The Internets Edited by: The Internets on 12/11/2009 22:08:31
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Hi, Mr.Troll. Nice to see you. Let me ask you a question. Do your mommy and daddy know that your using their computer? No. Well maybe you should get off and leave the discussion to the grown ups. Thank you.
Since you must be illiterate, I am advocating that the doomsayers in this thread wait for CCP's official devblog explaining their reasoning comes out before declaring the end of the world, since the nerdrage in this thread at this moment in time is based off of incredibly little information.
What if CCP just wants to set some specific roles to capitals because they're planning on introducing T2 caps in the next expansion? Making supercarriers a mobile anti-capital platform while a mothership replacement is being designed? Etc? The thing is you don't know, so calm down and wait for a real answer. You people are the ones kicking and screaming; who are the children here?
I believe you are dismissing the fact that most people writing here are ones who own a mothership currently/have on being built, and who are about to lose a fairly significant amount of ISK because of it... ?
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:12:00 -
[506]
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
A decent number. The vast majority of people posting here are pretty ******ed considering that despite the 'nerf', they're still getting boosted significantly, and furthermore that the devblog that they said they were working on in regards to this change has not been posted yet, likely explaining what their plans are.
Keep in mind this is the change from current live to Dominion:
Pros: 10x EHP Build cost slashed to 5-6b New weapon system (and significantly more DPS in an anti-capital role)
Cons: Reduced defense/offense against smaller ships Removal of modules nobody used on a mothership
It's a pretty MASSIVE buff compared to live. CCP clearly doesn't want Moms/Titans (who got a weapon nerf as well) flying around blowing up capitals solo, which they would have been able to do quite easily.
This is actually a pretty good point if true. I've done well on patch speculation, took losses on patch speculation, and when it comes down to it, if this is true all the people buying/building new ones on the announced changes were basically doing patch speculation on a huge scale and made the wrong bet; which is just an inevitable risk to speculating on patches.
Still hurts for people who had them before that and will feel less special flying them now that they will be more common, though, even if their ship is improving relative to TQ (assuming you are right in saying that, I honestly don't know). And since people's expectations were up they'll still be annoyed, ofc.
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Neily
The Circle
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:12:00 -
[507]
2 YEARS OF WORK, YES I HARD WORK TO HAVE THAT SHIP
Not only the cost of the SHIP+WASTE OF SKILLS+COST OF SKILLS+PAYING A ACCOUNT ALL MONTHS TO BE DOCK IN SPACE
I WANT MY MONEY BACK
I¦M STARTING TO BE TIRED OF THIS
WAKE UP CCP !!! AND I HOPE THIS IS ONLY A BUG AND NOT TRUE
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Lith Erivi
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:14:00 -
[508]
As a wyvern pilot I actually like these changes, however, I do not like the fact that billions of isk I spent is magically going poof because CCP said so. As things stand I can self destruct my current wyvern and buy a new one in dominion with BASE INSURANCE COST.
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:17:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Tinator
Originally by: The Internets Edited by: The Internets on 12/11/2009 22:08:31
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Hi, Mr.Troll. Nice to see you. Let me ask you a question. Do your mommy and daddy know that your using their computer? No. Well maybe you should get off and leave the discussion to the grown ups. Thank you.
Since you must be illiterate, I am advocating that the doomsayers in this thread wait for CCP's official devblog explaining their reasoning comes out before declaring the end of the world, since the nerdrage in this thread at this moment in time is based off of incredibly little information.
What if CCP just wants to set some specific roles to capitals because they're planning on introducing T2 caps in the next expansion? Making supercarriers a mobile anti-capital platform while a mothership replacement is being designed? Etc? The thing is you don't know, so calm down and wait for a real answer. You people are the ones kicking and screaming; who are the children here?
I believe you are dismissing the fact that most people writing here are ones who own a mothership currently/have on being built, and who are about to lose a fairly significant amount of ISK because of it... ?
While the fact is unfortunate, and likely a large cause of a lot of the anguish in this thread, CCP has to make changes time to time. The speed and snake nerfs caused myself to lose ~30b worth of investments that I couldn't unload in time, and at the time I was pretty angry myself. But in the long run it was for the good of the game and addressed the largest 'issue' EVE had at the time.
Sometimes you have to cut down a few trees to clear the land for new buildings, right?
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:17:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider what if.... carrier level added +1 and DCU added +2 or +3?
Smartbomb, Neut, Remote Rep, Remote ECM Burst, Cloak
What are, 'things far more useful in a supercarrier highslot' for 1000.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
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Mangold
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:20:00 -
[511]
I'd really like to know why they make this change and why they present it like this.
I don't own a MS, been planning to get one but have been very reluctant to get one as I couldn't really see a use that justified the cost. Guess I should be happy that I didn't get one.
To be honest, I've spent 6.5 years on this game and it may be a good time to move on to something else.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:21:00 -
[512]
Originally by: The Internets Edited by: The Internets on 12/11/2009 22:08:31
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Hi, Mr.Troll. Nice to see you. Let me ask you a question. Do your mommy and daddy know that your using their computer? No. Well maybe you should get off and leave the discussion to the grown ups. Thank you.
Since you must be illiterate, I am advocating that the doomsayers in this thread wait for CCP's official devblog explaining their reasoning comes out before declaring the end of the world, since the nerdrage in this thread at this moment in time is based off of incredibly little information.
What if CCP just wants to set some specific roles to capitals because they're planning on introducing T2 caps in the next expansion? Making supercarriers a mobile anti-capital platform while a mothership replacement is being designed? Etc? The thing is you don't know, so calm down and wait for a real answer. You people are the ones kicking and screaming; who are the children here?
Apart from the fact that your information is based on no facts whatsoever, you blatantly ignore the fact that CCP should have posted a dev blog about this before the change; you blatantly ignore that CCP didn't respond for 2 days after a player discovered the change on Sisi; you blatantly ignore the fact that CCPs one response was condescending and uninformative; you blatantly ignore that after that one horrible response the only other post by CCP personnel was to threaten bans. Not to mention the ignorance of your own posts(based on no information at all, and offering no reason as to why Moms were nerfed), they are written in such a way as to enflame the people that are rightfully angry at CCPs lack of communication. This, sir, makes you a troll. Now leave m alone and hide under your bridge.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:22:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Lith Erivi As a wyvern pilot I actually like these changes, however, I do not like the fact that billions of isk I spent is magically going poof because CCP said so. As things stand I can self destruct my current wyvern and buy a new one in dominion with BASE INSURANCE COST.
Assuming mineral prices don't go up you'd come out roughly on par, maybe a little loss, if you did that and bought minerals for new one.
Then consider value of bpc, of logistics/danger of building it without sov 4, etc., it'll end up more valuable than current insurance.
Lowest price will go (assuming bpo price not lowered) medium term is 7bil/each or so (thats mineral prices + about 1bil for the bpc, assuming no significant profit for builder, lol); highest (assuming minerals prices don't shoot up) is 10bil. When the tremendous amount of insurance fraud going on raises mineral prices (it will), might even go higher (might, thats the high-end estimate).
tl;dr -- its not worth self-destructing.
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Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:22:00 -
[514]
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Tinator
Originally by: The Internets Edited by: The Internets on 12/11/2009 22:08:31
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Hi, Mr.Troll. Nice to see you. Let me ask you a question. Do your mommy and daddy know that your using their computer? No. Well maybe you should get off and leave the discussion to the grown ups. Thank you.
Since you must be illiterate, I am advocating that the doomsayers in this thread wait for CCP's official devblog explaining their reasoning comes out before declaring the end of the world, since the nerdrage in this thread at this moment in time is based off of incredibly little information.
What if CCP just wants to set some specific roles to capitals because they're planning on introducing T2 caps in the next expansion? Making supercarriers a mobile anti-capital platform while a mothership replacement is being designed? Etc? The thing is you don't know, so calm down and wait for a real answer. You people are the ones kicking and screaming; who are the children here?
I believe you are dismissing the fact that most people writing here are ones who own a mothership currently/have on being built, and who are about to lose a fairly significant amount of ISK because of it... ?
While the fact is unfortunate, and likely a large cause of a lot of the anguish in this thread, CCP has to make changes time to time. The speed and snake nerfs caused myself to lose ~30b worth of investments that I couldn't unload in time, and at the time I was pretty angry myself. But in the long run it was for the good of the game and addressed the largest 'issue' EVE had at the time.
Sometimes you have to cut down a few trees to clear the land for new buildings, right?
eve is a much worse game for the nerfs of speed, it completely killed skirmish warfare and much of small gang pvp.
The change in mineral costs and the cut to present owners because of it aside, these changes are very underwhelming
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Kesper North
Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:24:00 -
[515]
CCP, this is a good example of "how not to do it" as far as community relations goes. Locking the petition thread just makes us angrier. Even the lock message itself was very poorly phrased, a thinly veiled "go cry some more, maybe the CSM will do something about it in six months" was a very poor choice. A more appropriate response would be to address our concerns, particularly as regards the amount of isk every supercap owner just lost. Or even say that you were aware of our concerns, that you were listening, and that a response would be forthcoming.
Locking the thread and telling us to take it up with the CSM? Unacceptable.
-- Killed me? Read about it in my blog! Northern Lights: Solo PVP in EVE Online
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:24:00 -
[516]
Originally by: Mahke
Pros: 10x EHP Build cost slashed to 5-6b New weapon system (and significantly more DPS in an anti-capital role)
A 5-6b isk ship that still can't dock and thus requires a parking alt or a special POS array and a heck of a lot of trust, loses most of the random utility mods (that nobody used anyways, to be fair), requires a Shoot Me beacon to build, and does marginally more anti-capital DPS than a sieged dread while having that DPS vulnerable to a lot of things (since if you fit a DCU ... LOL!).
It may be a buff, but it's really not that much of one compared to what existed before, and I doubt the pros outweigh the cons this time around. At the very least let them dock now, since there is no good reason for them not to. CCP felt the need to sneak this in after months of talking and planning and doing what they should, so they obviously feel this nerf is so important that they have to keep us little players from screwing up what they and CCP had built
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:25:00 -
[517]
I have scene many nerfs and they bring a few alliances together, this is the 1st nerf that I have scene all the major alliance join force as one voice öwhat are you onö
I mean get real think about it here are payers that have worked hard and now to have 2/3 of there isk gone because you think it is a good idea to do so. Why on earth do you think this? come on reply tell me/us how can you take 10b in value and just laugh in the face of your customers. You can't say your not laughing at us, due to your low replies and stealth nerfs, I mean if you want us to stay with your company and give you our cash then I think you should be replying to us.
You keep talking about working with the players and then you go and do stuff to show you really don't want to work with us.
Come on ccp get your finger out and start to talk with us the player the one who have stayed and will likely stay with you.
You want feedback, you want our help then tell us what your ideas are not just this crap ôthis is what we are doingö.
Now tell me what are you going to give the players that have spent the time and isk to get these ships.
What you have given them with this patch
new fighter-bombers less drones/fighters/fighter-bombers more hp made us think they yes they will be of use then made the useless removed vat bay, warfare link, triaged removed
Btw what is the play out on insurance on a mother ship.
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:26:00 -
[518]
Quote:
I don't know who you are or why you're messing with what was one of the few uncontroversially good aspects of Dominion. But you should back off these changes ASAP. You should also gain a basic understanding of economics/public relations, given how much chaos your lil post there just created.
Don't think I could ever be in 100% agreement with a Mittani post.
Dominion overall looks a brutal abortion. Flat, unimaginative, boring pseudochanges on one side, nasty screwup on the other (and I don't even plan to ever fly a MS).
This looks like a good Mythic Entertrainment patch (ie they generally managed to deliver much worse ones than the equivalent of Dominion. Yeah hard to believe but they did).
But about EvE: hey, keep going like this and...
... in some years EvE will end up as just another irrecuperable fail EA MMO. Gifted as bonus pack with FIFA 2015. Maybe EA will add antialias support, they love flashy games that suck.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Tactile Trader
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:28:00 -
[519]
What the **** is this ****?
7200 DPS?
No ****ting way, First, as soon as the target starts to move you can cut off a lot of that damage DPS Second, bombers don't hit subcaps for ****. Third, bombers wont hit carriers for **** once they turn on their smartbombs and the bombers are recalled Fourth, fighter DPS is now comparable to a carrier, a fully insurable carrier Fifth, Remote ECM Burst is terrible, don't try to bring it up as an argument Sixth, Drone contrlol units, speaks for itself. Seventh, the Moros' drone bonus puts out similar DPS with 5 Gardes as opposed to the SC's 10. Eighth, Fighters die very easily, Bombers with 2x base HP will still get eaten alive by a competent enemy.
I came back to eve to get my endgame ship and a couple of Faction BS, to mess with, **** it I'm off again :/
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:34:00 -
[520]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1213455&page=1
the /sign thread in the Jita's Corner
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Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:34:00 -
[521]
Edited by: Grekken on 12/11/2009 22:34:43 Second thread locked ............. WTF over
"Locked for reopening a locked thread.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us"
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1213450&page=2 ----------------------------------------------- Vader Wills It!
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Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:36:00 -
[522]
Edited by: Mhorbaine on 12/11/2009 22:36:30 linki but someone above beat my flood control
sign up since they fcked the initial thread over... thanks shigsy for startin it :)
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:37:00 -
[523]
I hear Star Trek will be out in february
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:37:00 -
[524]
Confirming that protesting changes on the test server does not belong on test server forums. Keep this up CCP. Excellent PR.
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Ari Xali
Caldari Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:39:00 -
[525]
No, No, No!
CCP, Listen to the guys that actually play the game. This is a seriously bad idea.
Plz. Stop. Think. Look.
go back to the drawing board, cos this ain't gonna work. Roughnecks Forever! |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:45:00 -
[526]
I'll just state that I'm furious about these changes, and even more so after learning that current mothership pilots are to lose 10 bil worth of value. I want to make this clear so that everyone understands that despite the civil tone I'll exhibit in the rest of the post, what I really want to do is to rage and scream like most other posters.
In regards to DPS,
Motherships may be able to reach 7200 DPS, but this is with a full rack of DCUs. Any competent carrier or mothership pilot knows that your highslots are FAR better suited to modules that will keep you or your fleetmates alive than more DPS. That still leaves them at 7200 DPS.
Even so, assuming we fit for max DPS (which is pretty stupid), a dread will still out-DPS us by far. A naglfar, for instance, using T2 gear and faction ammo, can do 6.1k DPS, and that's using today's figures. With the new short-range weaponry, it wouldn't be hard to fit a dread for 12k DPS.
The argument that dreads cannot hit moving targets is invalid. Dreads can, and will hit a moving target. Their DPS may be reduced, and under many circumstances, the dread will not hit squat. Still, a blob of sufficient size will ensure that there's always a few dreads that will land good hits.
Even so, during a capital fight, capitals do not move. Doing so would ensure that capitals will drift out of remote repair range of each others. Friendly dreadnoughts would also be left behind, which is very much unsatisfactory. It may be the case that the capital battlefield will change massively as Dominion is deployed, but I doubt we'll see many changes to how we fight capitals vs capitals.
The argument that motherships do not need to commit is also invalid. With the amount of dictors and hictors, any capital that is deployed on a battlefield is committed. I will, however, concede that dreads need to commit harder than motherships and untriaged carriers.
This leaves us with the simple fact that in terms of being anti-capitals, motherships do not perform better than dreads. In fact, they may perform worse, especially as their main DPS are in the form of drones that take time to reach their target, are not instant DPS, can be easily elimiated, and are in short supply. A dread on the other hand, does not risk losing its primary weapon system until it's destroyed.
So, for the anti-capital role we have the following:
Dreads - Relatively cheap, expendable. Can be insured. 4k-8k DPS for common setups. Motherships - Relatively expensive. Cannot be insured. 4.8k-6k DPS. Weaponsystem can easily be destroyed (smartbombs, stealthbombers, guns etc). Titans - Expensive. Cannot be insured. ~5-10k DPS for common setups. Also has a single shot high-damage weapon, equivalent of 5k DPS.
As we've concluded, dreads will still be the ultimate anti-capital ships, especially as they're between 3 times (new mom cost) and 22 times (titan cost) cheaper than the other ships. In terms of cost of losing an insured ship, they're between 10 (new mom cost) and 88 (titan cost) times as cheap, seeing as supercapitals can't be insured. Dreads will do roughly the same DPS as a titan or mothership, and they're far easier to get into in terms of skills.
What role does that leave titans and motherships now?
Oh, and the cost reduction in building a mothership... that only serves to insult everyone of the pilots and corporations who have grinded isk for these ships in the past. Motherships were status symbols, something that you'd grind for and be proud of your achievement for. What these changes will do is to negate all this hard work, done by some of CCP's most loyal customers, and telling them that two thirds of their work was for nothing.
CCP, if you want a ship that has 10 FBs each, costs 5-6 bil and is accessible to more players, how about introducing the first T2 capitals. Make supercarriers the T2 equivalents of the T1 carriers, and leave our motherships alone. I'd like Abathur's proposal back, please.
--
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LordMordred
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:45:00 -
[527]
NO.
This is insane. You finally fixed them after years of waiting... they were finally special again and a force to dealt with. They were still cost restrictive enough to prevent mass proliferation. I'm a little bit to caught up in my internet spaceship rage to keep posting with out saying something I'll regret. So I'll just leave it at bloody that. -----
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Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:46:00 -
[528]
Wow CCP deleted my post for saying they locked the MkII thread ........ thats mature ----------------------------------------------- Vader Wills It!
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IronGoldenEagle
The New Era Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:47:00 -
[529]
I was definitley training and saving for one but now I guess I'll just stick with my carrier. Way to lower my standards CCP. Also it's really a shame how this has shafted so many players and ruined what would have been an overall positive change.
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:48:00 -
[530]
Warning this thread contains tears, emo quit threats, and much desire to stamp feet and shout.
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:49:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Mkiaki Warning this thread contains tears, emo quit threats, and much desire to stamp feet and shout.
and troll alts.
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Yosser Hughes
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:50:00 -
[532]
Edited by: Yosser Hughes on 12/11/2009 22:50:45
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600 -Nozh
What the hell, have you no idea how missiles work at all? With a 3500 explosion radius, supercarriers will be doing %50 damage to dreads. Why bother buying a supercarrier at all when a cheaper, insurable dreadnought will do more damage in capital fights?
Put that Abathur dude back in charge, he seemed to know what the **** he was doing.
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Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:51:00 -
[533]
hmm so by linking something link this is against the policy...
even tho its a thread relevant to the discussion?
on a side note, i hear what ppl have been saying about the fb's bein powerful etc but as someone pointed out earlier (i think it was mittens) why dont they just alter the bandwidth on the mom so that it has the bandwidth to launch 10x fighterbombers OR 20x fighters/drones etc... think they even gave numbers (5000?) and how that could be altered in the DCU i.e. bandwith +500 +1 drone controllable or something
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:52:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Yosser Hughes Edited by: Yosser Hughes on 12/11/2009 22:50:45
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600 -Nozh
What the hell, have you no idea how missiles work at all? With a 3500 explosion radius, supercarriers will be doing %50 damage to dreads. Why bother buying a supercarrier at all when a cheaper, insurable dreadnought will do more damage in capital fights?
Put that Abathur dude back in charge, he seemed to know what the **** he was doing.
Goons know what they are talking about.
Wait...what...a serious Goon. You done ****ed up big time CCP.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:53:00 -
[535]
Originally by: Yosser Hughes Edited by: Yosser Hughes on 12/11/2009 22:50:45
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600 -Nozh
What the hell, have you no idea how missiles work at all? With a 3500 explosion radius, supercarriers will be doing %50 damage to dreads. Why bother buying a supercarrier at all when a cheaper, insurable dreadnought will do more damage in capital fights?
Put that Abathur dude back in charge, he seemed to know what the **** he was doing.
maybe we're supposed to use Bellicoses to target paint ships and objects that are immune to target painting
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Terracian SHcorp
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:54:00 -
[536]
Edited by: Terracian SHcorp on 12/11/2009 22:56:26 Locked Mk3 thread after just 4 signatures...How Pathetic is CCP not letting us voice our displeasure to something that obviously has alot of people who pay good money to play EVE, show how these intended changes will be for the worse, not the better. Wether they dont want to admit to doing something wrong and cant find a way out to save there face OR they just dont care, I bet if alot of the people who are posting on these threads (inculding the 3 petition threads that have been locked now also) just stopped playing EVE and found another game to play, would they admit to it then? Maybe thats what they need a good swift kick in the *** like i got when I was a kid and I did something stupid and didnt own up to it.
maybe we should build a New Berlin Wall between CCP and its players..
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:56:00 -
[537]
if i'm honest, i'm running out of things to do in eve, and skills to train that i want to use. the MS changes gave me motive to use them, rather than sit it on a garage style alt. now i'll simply train bombers skill to lvl 1, jump in ship, load in new bomber drones, and jump out, and log it out with the alt again.
i havnt used my momship in 6-8 months, and i'm now no more likely to do so in the future.
bravo CCP.
jan 24th marks the end of my 5th year in eve. dont make it my last now :)
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:56:00 -
[538]
Originally by: Terracian SHcorp Locked Mk3 thread after just 4 signatures...How Pathetic is CCP not letting us voice our displeasure to something that obviously has alot of people who pay good money to play EVE, show how these intended changes will be for the worse, not the better. Wether they dont want to admit to doing something wrong and cant find a way out to save there face OR they just dont care, I bet if alot of the people who are posting on these threads (inculding the 3 petition threads that have been locked now also) just stopped playing EVE and found another game to play, would they admit to it then? Maybe thats what they need a good swift kick in the *** like i got when I was a kid and I did something stupid and didnt own up to it.
Carefull they will delete your post for eaying that ----------------------------------------------- Vader Wills It!
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Tactile Trader
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:56:00 -
[539]
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Yosser Hughes Edited by: Yosser Hughes on 12/11/2009 22:50:45
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600 -Nozh
What the hell, have you no idea how missiles work at all? With a 3500 explosion radius, supercarriers will be doing %50 damage to dreads. Why bother buying a supercarrier at all when a cheaper, insurable dreadnought will do more damage in capital fights?
Put that Abathur dude back in charge, he seemed to know what the **** he was doing.
maybe we're supposed to use Bellicoses to target paint ships and objects that are immune to target painting
Sounds about right for CCP...
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Guterro d'Tefiane
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:59:00 -
[540]
I find it hard to believe that these changes are going through. It is impossible to make everyone happy. Whenever something is changed in game, some people will benefit and some will suffer. That is just how a game like this works, and I accept it. So you can change the stats on the ship, increase the HP, reduce the number of fighters, etc.
As a supercarrier pilot myself, I am not happy with all these changes, but I can adopt and deal with them. But to change the build cost by such a huge margin? That is ridiculous. All the minerals used to build the ship just disappeared for no reason. Every supercarrier pilot should just reprocess their ship before the patch. What is the point anymore?
It is one thing to make these kinds of changes to a ship worth 100 mil, it is something different to do it to a ship worth 15 bil. I spent two years saving and planning for a Nyx. That was what made the game worth playing for me, and I doubt I am the only one. If it only took me a few months, I probably wouldn't care as much, but that is not the case.
I know there aren't that many players in this game who actually have a supercarrier, but this change isn't just about them. Because if you can and will do something like this, what is to prevent you from making similar changes in the future to other parts of the game? Six months from now, you guys can just randomly decide that the build cost of titans will go down by 50%, and all those minerals used will disappear leaving people having spent billions on nothing.
So the question I really have is this:
Why should I plan and work for years for something that you will change at the last minute and leave me with not much to show for? Isn't EVE all about long term goals? If this is how the game is going to be, I should just go play wow and get my new set of gear every 3 months.
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Seneram
Caldari B'haxed Productions The Dominium
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:00:00 -
[541]
OUT THE GUY THAT KNOW WTF HE IS DOING BACK IN!!! I hate the bull**** that CCP came out with, Both on Moms and titans. I dont fly either ATM but i was just about to start flying a mom... Untill this came out!!! ------------------------------------------------- PewPew |
Shade Millith
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:00:00 -
[542]
Edited by: Shade Millith on 12/11/2009 23:01:08 Grats CCP I'm not even a cap pilot, but I can see these changes are just stupid. --------------------------------------------
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Major Raditz
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:00:00 -
[543]
Star Trek Online in Feb and Perpetuum Online after that. I think this is the beginning of the end for eve. She has had a good run but I think too many bad decisions have tainted the game. I haven't seen such an outcry since warp to 0 was introduced.
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Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:03:00 -
[544]
Seeing as how the main petition here was locked, Everyone pleas give GOOD, RESPECTFUL, and PROPER feedback.
We all agree, the drone control nerf is way over the top period. We want +3 drones per level back plus we want the cost to be back to about 15 billion.
If this is what you want then say exactly that here, less flaming and more of the same feed back will cause the reverting of motherships.
Also, on the csm forum we have a new petition going to support this movement to restore motherships to their epic glory.
Guys, I know a lot of you, we are better posters than this, SIGN the petition and give proper feed back.
WE WANT OUR MOTHERSHIPS BACK!
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Sooshie
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:04:00 -
[545]
This characters account is purely for mothership and a holder character as well.. If they pull this crap off goodbye 2x subs CCP. I think many other players would pretty much do the same.
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Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:04:00 -
[546]
Edited by: Grekken on 12/11/2009 23:04:43 This was posted in CAOD then locked! -------------------------------------------------- Edited by: DJ Obsidian on 12/11/2009 19:53:55
Petition here Petition forum
Rant / flame here / constructive feed back here Rant forum
Now with compitent linking
Locked for Off Topic for CAOD.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us
---------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------- Vader Wills It!
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:09:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
I will be pro change for this. I will actually buy an Aeon post patch if its around 6bil, because it a viable upgrade compared to a Carrier.
At 6bil, you get a Carrier, with more HP, more highslots and an EWAR immunity. Local Tank is better as well. Well worth the cost, can boost a fleet of them in true spider tank way (as carriers are intended). EVE is a game of diminishing returns, you pay a premium to get smaller upgrades.
All you need to do is view it like a upgraded Carrier, not the pwnmobile you had in mind.
It is a SUPPORT and it is a LOGISTIC ship. Why in New Eden should its DPS matter one bit?
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Sooshie
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:10:00 -
[548]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
I dont think the Devs ever play this game and know how the players use these ships or how useless such fittings are because all drone control units do is get 20 billion isk of super capital ship killed. I think we need devs to re-think this whole thing with "real world" thinking of how things are actually done in the in-game environment.
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Guterro d'Tefiane
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:10:00 -
[549]
And for those people who keep saying that this is just another nerf. It is not.
When heavy dictors got introduced, motherships went from 30+ bil to around 15 bil, but the build cost never changed. So why change it now?
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Random Womble
Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:11:00 -
[550]
Ok the cost nerf is harsh on current MS pilots i will agree there
However other than that some of the complaints are ironic.
For example early on one guy complaining that you will get for the cost of 10 carriers something that does realistically ignoring DCUs 3-4x the DPS of a carrier with fighter bombers to large targets and the same DPS with fighters VS others, has a lot more hitpoints, the added bonus of EW immunity and while that may not mean much now for warping because of HICs the fact that you cant be jammed is pretty useful these days even tho ECM ships got nerfed. You also still have the remote ECM burst which is not the worst piece of kit ever for trying to deal with those pesky hics (if in low sec).
Where as before you basically got a carrier that did 2x the damage for 30x the price with not that much more HP ok you still had the EW immunity then ect so in a realistic comparison your looking at
Before: 30x price 2x DPS 2x HP
After 10x Price 3-4x DPS Not sure what HP is at not not been on SiSi in a little while but still considerably boosted over TQ stats i assume
Bear in mind 10x cost does not mean 10x stats 10 tier 3 cruisers cost same as 10 tier 1 BS 10 tier 3 frigs cost same as 10 tier 1 cruisers yet in both cases DPS is roughly doubled hp roughly 5x so these changes are in proportion to that infact a little better. and yes i know those numbers are not completely relevant here but they are a good example of other similar situations.
Alternatively you could compare MS/SCs (your choice i will keep using MS for ages myself) to dreads at which point you get about the same firepower but constant DPS over any range, better sub cap damage ability, spider tanking vs purely local in siege (dread out of siege is irrelavent), the ability to reposition while doing DPS and actually leave if things look like they will turn nasty, utility high slots to fit neuts/smarties/whatever and also the ECM burst to jam tacklers (in low sec or if weirdly not bubbled in 0.0), more buffer hitpoints and a variety of other things such as being able to lock more than 2 targets at once. Only things a dread actually really gets over the new MS is 1/5th cost and more damage to POSs.
Oh and with the EW immunity dont underestimate the value of not being webbable.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:12:00 -
[551]
Originally by: Yosser Hughes
Originally by: CCP Nozh Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
What the hell, have you no idea how missiles work at all? With a 3500 explosion radius, supercarriers will be doing %50 damage to dreads.
Just for the record, based on those numbers you get:
Damage vs. Thanatos at no speed = ~3050. Damage vs. Thanatos at full speed = ~1350.
Damage vs. Moros at no speed = ~1800. Damage vs. Moros at full speed = ~800. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Acerbits
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:13:00 -
[552]
MAKE NPC SUEPRCARRIER BPO SELLER GIVE ME A REFUND ON MY SUPERCARRIER BPO, IT'S NOW A 16.65BILLION ISK WORTHLESS PIECE OF **** THAT I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RECOUP MY INVESTMENT WITH!!!
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Emily Elderburry
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:13:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
I will be pro change for this. I will actually buy an Aeon post patch if its around 6bil, because it a viable upgrade compared to a Carrier.
At 6bil, you get a Carrier, with more HP, more highslots and an EWAR immunity. Local Tank is better as well. Well worth the cost, can boost a fleet of them in true spider tank way (as carriers are intended). EVE is a game of diminishing returns, you pay a premium to get smaller upgrades.
All you need to do is view it like a upgraded Carrier, not the pwnmobile you had in mind.
It is a SUPPORT and it is a LOGISTIC ship. Why in New Eden should its DPS matter one bit?
One of the main issues is that players who already have purchased MS/Supercarriers will essentially be shafted 8-10 billion isk if the patch is released.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:14:00 -
[554]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
I will be pro change for this. I will actually buy an Aeon post patch if its around 6bil, because it a viable upgrade compared to a Carrier.
At 6bil, you get a Carrier, with more HP, more highslots and an EWAR immunity. Local Tank is better as well. Well worth the cost, can boost a fleet of them in true spider tank way (as carriers are intended). EVE is a game of diminishing returns, you pay a premium to get smaller upgrades.
All you need to do is view it like a upgraded Carrier, not the pwnmobile you had in mind.
It is a SUPPORT and it is a LOGISTIC ship. Why in New Eden should its DPS matter one bit?
So you're willing to pay 9b for a holding alt, $15 a month for an account for the holding alt in addition to the 5-6b for the actual ship, which I may add is a glorified carrier. It offers no real benefit over dreads for capital killing or carriers for logistics.
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:14:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Yosser Hughes Edited by: Yosser Hughes on 12/11/2009 22:50:45
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600 -Nozh
What the hell, have you no idea how missiles work at all? With a 3500 explosion radius, supercarriers will be doing %50 damage to dreads. Why bother buying a supercarrier at all when a cheaper, insurable dreadnought will do more damage in capital fights?
Put that Abathur dude back in charge, he seemed to know what the **** he was doing.
I totally missed the part with the explosion radius. Good catch. This further reinforces my belief that this change is flawed.
--
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:15:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Originally by: Graalum has there even been a single pro-change post in this thread?
I will be pro change for this. I will actually buy an Aeon post patch if its around 6bil, because it a viable upgrade compared to a Carrier.
At 6bil, you get a Carrier, with more HP, more highslots and an EWAR immunity. Local Tank is better as well. Well worth the cost, can boost a fleet of them in true spider tank way (as carriers are intended). EVE is a game of diminishing returns, you pay a premium to get smaller upgrades.
All you need to do is view it like a upgraded Carrier, not the pwnmobile you had in mind.
It is a SUPPORT and it is a LOGISTIC ship. Why in New Eden should its DPS matter one bit?
1 - CCP wants motherships/titans to be anti-cap ships. 2 - if you can get an aeon, so can half of eve. supercaps arent supposed to be commonplace. 3 - supercarrier isnt an 'upgrade' its an entirely new level/concept of ship. 4 - SC's now have no advantage over carriers if trying to kill a HIC/HAC or w/e. can only launch 10 fighters. 5 - stuff.
go figure
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:17:00 -
[557]
I like how they wanted moms to be the new anti capital ship and then made them do less dps than dreads lol.
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Protheroe
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:18:00 -
[558]
Originally by: CCP Reputational risk
Reputational risk is the risk that CCP will suffer loss of revenue due to negative publicity. Such negative publicity may result from operational decisions, or lack thereof, or from events arising within CCP’s online virtual worlds. In this respect, it should be noted that the Company’s main source of revenue is subscription fees, collected from a large number of private individuals. These individuals form a user community that is highly demanding and interactive. Damage to the Company’s reputation may cause these individuals to terminate their subscriptions in large numbers. In this case, future earnings would be adversely affected.
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Tebis
BlackTalon Mining Corp G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:18:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Artemis Rose It is a SUPPORT and it is a LOGISTIC ship. Why in New Eden should its DPS matter one bit?
Uh the whole point of super carrier was to give it a different role... It was to be an anti-capital ship and no longer a support/logistics ship.. hence the removal of triage module
I don't like the titan or supercarrier changes .. to me it lacks a defined role and just tries to one up dreads and carriers respectively .. pointless
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Mynchko Atoch
Atoch Family Holdings
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:20:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Sha Kharn lol chill guys this Nozh guy is either joking or a little ******ed. Im sure its just a joke.
I think HE is the joke. One would think from his comment about fitting Moms for damage that he had never actually flown one in serious combat. Probably looks well balanced on his f'ing spreadsheet though. Shame you can't fly spreadsheets into a laggy system with 120 hostiles waiting for you. Why they would pwn!
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Sooshie
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:21:00 -
[561]
Originally by: Protheroe
Originally by: CCP Reputational risk
Reputational risk is the risk that CCP will suffer loss of revenue due to negative publicity. Such negative publicity may result from operational decisions, or lack thereof, or from events arising within CCPÆs online virtual worlds. In this respect, it should be noted that the CompanyÆs main source of revenue is subscription fees, collected from a large number of private individuals. These individuals form a user community that is highly demanding and interactive. Damage to the CompanyÆs reputation may cause these individuals to terminate their subscriptions in large numbers. In this case, future earnings would be adversely affected.
They dont care about negative publicity their advertisements for eve are all over illegal torrent sites.
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Loki Farseer
F9X Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:26:00 -
[562]
Guys.. might want to watch it. CCP's past way of dealing with "X is still better" has been to Nerf-bat the h3ll out of X. CCP has said they are making changes to carriers next
This actually could get worse... or better depending.
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:27:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Loki Farseer Guys.. might want to watch it. CCP's past way of dealing with "X is still better" has been to Nerf-bat the h3ll out of X. CCP has said they are making changes to carriers next
This actually could get worse... or better depending.
This guy has it.. it's allll goood
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Valentina Valentia
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:37:00 -
[564]
Edited by: Valentina Valentia on 12/11/2009 23:39:36 EVERYONE CALM DOWN!!!... DO YOU HEAR ME, CALM DOWN!!!... *slaps self*... ok, I am better now.
Suggestion to nerf-batting... we all will just fly shuttles and freighters, everyone... nothing else, think of it - PVP would be fun as bumper-cars, Mining, would be great, the belts would be full all the time, not just at restart. Hauling would be easy, with unlimited ISK loads all the way into 0.0 with no issues... we could get around so far it wouldn't be funny in shuttles, to do vital missions for courier services and such...
I SAY WE ALL GO SHUTTLE/FREIGHTER! CCP could never nerf us again!
*walks away from podium and pushes "trash it" on Wyvern and Fighters/Bombers in hangar and proceeds to the bar for a cold case of wiskey, hold the ice*
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Myndpyre Ryche
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:38:00 -
[565]
I categorically disagree with the proposed changes that Nozh has outlined. The very fact that he has signed off on these changes, shows just how out of touch with the reality of the end-game that he has become.
If CCP wishes to go the same path that SWG did to cause their customer exodus, as well as the infamous Anarchy Online 12.6 patch that caused their massive player departure, by all means, continue to show the behavior patterns and irrational decision making that this designer is imposing upon the game.
As constructive and as respectful as I can, CCP needs to honestly review it's current stock of designers and reaffirm that this is the direction and the quality of work that the company wants, as well as the way that the company wants to treat its most loyal and enduring customers.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:39:00 -
[566]
I'd lay money on the fact that CCP ignores this thread. Posts their dev blog on 'rebalancing' the non-broken S-Carriers. Then ignores the massive forum thread complaining about the dev blog and basically says FU players. We are CCP and we don't give a **** about our old players so long as there are plenty of new players coming in.
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Metelus Aquila
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:45:00 -
[567]
I myself am not a capital pilot, but i have been in enough capital fights to know that what CCP has done to the Supercarrier is turn it into a gloified POS pounder. Anything that moves can easily tank something firing citidel torps.
I was finally considering going capital with my ships as i could see that the SC's finally had purpose in the game, but in light of this i think i will stick to my sub-capital choices, they are cheaper, i get insurance cover and in groups will quite happily take out one of these so called 'upgraded' supercarriers (or a 6bil ship with a bullseye on it)
CCP really need to wake up and listen to what the people with the in game knowledge and experience have to say instead of slapping us in the face like this.
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:48:00 -
[568]
They're not ignoring it, they're still deleting posts they don't like. Like alot of posts. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:52:00 -
[569]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 12/11/2009 23:55:51 Edited by: Le Skunk on 12/11/2009 23:52:54
Originally by: Emily Elderburry
One of the main issues is that players who already have purchased MS/Supercarriers will essentially be shafted 8-10 billion isk if the patch is released.
Thems the breaks kid. Prices of items go up and down depending on game balancing.
* My tech three ships took a nose dive in price once CCP meddled with the costs to produce. * My pirate BS however, Increased in price when CCP announced the boosts. * My snake implant set nosedived when CCP (guess the dev) meddled with speed. * Your MS takes a nosedive if this change goes through * Some of my large tech II rigs i was producing took a beating when they release medium and small rigs (i have many cruiser hulls with tech II large rigs in also)
Thats life.
Just goes to show - nobodys safe and
Dont Buy what you cant afford to Get Nerfed (o)
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:52:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk I'd lay money on the fact that CCP ignores this thread. Posts their dev blog on 'rebalancing' the non-broken S-Carriers. Then ignores the massive forum thread complaining about the dev blog and basically says FU players. We are CCP and we don't give a **** about our old players so long as there are plenty of new players coming in.
Unfortunately signed. I am a classic case of a fanboy. But this is just ... I am out of words for that one.
I am signing out for the night, because I am not in the state of mind to state my thoughts on this on a neutral and constructive level. It's just sad, really.
I'll get the char into the thing. Log off afterwards and prolly unsub to lurk and wait for better days in the faint hope that they are coming.
G'Night guys.
P.S.: Yes, this is a BAAAWWWW-Post.
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Grekken
Caldari Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:53:00 -
[571]
Yeah they jsut deleted ANOTHER post of mine just because I called em out.... F it im off to play COD ----------------------------------------------- Vader Wills It!
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SXYGeeK
Gallente do you Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:54:00 -
[572]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 12/11/2009 23:23:09
Originally by: Yosser Hughes
Originally by: CCP Nozh Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
What the hell, have you no idea how missiles work at all? With a 3500 explosion radius, supercarriers will be doing %50 damage to dreads.
Just for the record, based on those numbers you get:
Damage vs. Thanatos at no speed = ~3050 (so 6099 max DPS w/ Nozh's mystery fit, 7600 from Nyx) Damage vs. Thanatos at full speed = ~1350 (so 2700 / 3375 DPS).
Damage vs. Moros at no speed = ~1800 (3600 / 4500 DPS). Damage vs. Moros at full speed = ~800 (1600 / 2000 DPS).
do your calculations factor in the "damage reduction factor" ? it is the magic number after all. -We So SeXy |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:01:00 -
[573]
Originally by: Sinc hmm i really hope ccp think about some reinbushment for everyone who owns these ships or have them in build allready. There is a lot building them right up to dominion hits .. who now have to sell them for less then buildcost, because you suddenly changes everything.
Changes on SISI are labled every 10 seconds as NOT FINAL
CHANGES ARE NOT FINAL SO DONT BUILD EXPECTING THEM TO BE
You were speculating despite the warnings and now you have lost out. Bad luck. Prices can go down as well us up.
SKUNK (o)
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Protheroe
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:04:00 -
[574]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat They're not ignoring it, they're still deleting posts they don't like. Like alot of posts.
Credit where credit is due though, they aren't above censoring their own statements as well. |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:05:00 -
[575]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 13/11/2009 00:06:19
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Sinc hmm i really hope ccp think about some reinbushment for everyone who owns these ships or have them in build allready. There is a lot building them right up to dominion hits .. who now have to sell them for less then buildcost, because you suddenly changes everything.
Changes on SISI are labled every 10 seconds as NOT FINAL
CHANGES ARE NOT FINAL SO DONT BUILD EXPECTING THEM TO BE
You were speculating despite the warnings and now you have lost out. Bad luck. Prices can go down as well us up.
SKUNK
Your logic does not equate for people that would have been building them anyway had the boost announcement never gone ahead. What about those people who weren't "Speculating" but were just doing what they had been doing all this time since they started building supercaps?
What happens for all the people with build jobs now that end after dominion? Do they get refunded the unneeded materials post dominion or do the minerals simply go off into the abyss? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Xolax Castle
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:07:00 -
[576]
WOW, been away since COD came out and now MOMS are being nerfed... Personally I don't think this change is going to be going into action. I thought that just the Titan was broken and the MOMS were fine??? I know that CCP will do the right thing here and change it back. Or it will be a little awkward next time they have a fanfest... Because I am pretty sure most of the people that go to fanfest are your big time players and big time players own supercaps...
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:17:00 -
[577]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:19:45 Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:18:49
Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 13/11/2009 00:06:19
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Sinc hmm i really hope ccp think about some reinbushment for everyone who owns these ships or have them in build allready. There is a lot building them right up to dominion hits .. who now have to sell them for less then buildcost, because you suddenly changes everything.
Changes on SISI are labled every 10 seconds as NOT FINAL
CHANGES ARE NOT FINAL SO DONT BUILD EXPECTING THEM TO BE
You were speculating despite the warnings and now you have lost out. Bad luck. Prices can go down as well us up.
SKUNK
Your logic does not equate for people that would have been building them anyway had the boost announcement never gone ahead. What about those people who weren't "Speculating" but were just doing what they had been doing all this time since they started building supercaps?
What happens for all the people with build jobs now that end after dominion? Do they get refunded the unneeded materials post dominion or do the minerals simply go off into the abyss?
Why should they?
-->DONT FLY WHAT YOU CANT AFFORD TO LOSE
Rule 1 of eve. All you capital pilots should know this.
There is a long line of ships, modules, skills, and implants losing value (or indeed gaining value) due to changes in the game. This is known to pretty much every player, and especially players old enough to fly capital ships.
When invention came out - T2 BPO holders lost a fortune. Were you threatening to leave then? Or have you been hapily and greedily snapping up cheap tech 2 items.
I didn't get any isk back when medium and small rigs came out for example. I have cruiser sat in my bay with large tech 2 rigs fitted. If these MOM whiners are getting money back - I want my money back to!
SKUNK (o)
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Royaldo
Gallente The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:18:00 -
[578]
I feel really sorry for the people who have invested in these ships.
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Loki Farseer
F9X Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:19:00 -
[579]
I'm going on record that if this stands... it's going to get worse cause they will Nerf-Bat the Dreads and Carriers to make this look good. ><
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cBOLTSON
Caldari Point of No Return Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:19:00 -
[580]
If anyone from CCP - Or the player community is reading this , please hear me out [So to speak...]
I AM NOT a supercap pilot, I DO NOT own anything to do with supercap production. I have only been playing 8 months or so.
To me 'PERSONALLY' these changes dont really mean a great deal. Now before you flame me please let me finish.....
CCP - What I see here is that you are screwing your hardcore long term playerbase / customer base. This same customer base pays your wages and you wouldn't be here today if it was not for them.
THAT TO ME MAKES YOU UNTRUSTWORTH AS A BUISNESS PARTNER.
Please reconsider what you are doing. Just going on the ammout of attention this has attracted should make you see the error of your ways.
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:19:00 -
[581]
Originally by: Royaldo I feel really sorry for the people who have invested in these ships.
They're just ships lol, you sound as if you're talking to a bereaved relative ---
I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :( |
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:22:00 -
[582]
Quote: What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role
Isn't that exactly what it was on SISI, up until a few days ago?
Originally by: CCP Nozh which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets
"Explosion Velocity: 45"
???
Quote: nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage
My nyx can move 80 m/s while it kills things, YES!
Quote: The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts
You're right, your supercap player base is dumb and overlooking this fact. Oh, and taking multiple billions worth of mostly uninsurable super cap onto the field isn't a commitment, nor is having a dedicated account/character + pos to keep it.
Originally by: CCP Nozh There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
Innapropriate language removed. Zymurgist ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:22:00 -
[583]
so is CCP gonna reimburse me the 6 billion isk difference? I finally built one specifically for the new role and loved the looks of it....now you completely nerf it to be worthless again and on top of that are reducing build cost by 50% and expect us to praise you? anybody got a link to the new Star Trek Online game? I think it's time to leave EVE and find a new game. |
IronGoldenEagle
The New Era Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:22:00 -
[584]
Guys, Obey! OBEY! These changes are good for us...these changes are good for us... Don't voice your concerns or annoyance or you get the gas!
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:22:00 -
[585]
yes ive seen that a lot of my posts have vanished, the changes do need to be adjusted quite a bit Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:24:00 -
[586]
Meh, meant to say it's no biggie - FOTMs come, FOTMs go, at least way it'll force players to become more creative. Should make for some interesting choices on the battlefield!
Adapt or die, right? ---
I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :( |
Ikoma Sunblazer
Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:26:00 -
[587]
HOLY **** THEY GOT MODS ON STANDBY MY POSTD GOT DELETED QUICKFAST
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Zhentor
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:27:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Battle Tested so is CCP gonna reimburse me the 6 billion isk difference? I finally built one specifically for the new role and loved the looks of it....now you completely nerf it to be worthless again and on top of that are reducing build cost by 50% and expect us to praise you? anybody got a link to the new Star Trek Online game? I think it's time to leave EVE and find a new game.
This. I had one coming out a week ago. Now the price drops by half? And no mention of any sort of coverage for those who started jobs with half of the information that was going to be supplied? This is ridiculous.
Maybe ~6 years is just too long for a single MMO to last.
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Terracian SHcorp
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:28:00 -
[589]
Edited by: Terracian SHcorp on 13/11/2009 00:29:38 Its a good thing they cant delete my posts everywhere else showing my opinion about this thread not allowing negative opinions of CCP's Iron hand, trying to stop people from voicing there opinions...
These new changes are going to cost them in the long run and I hope they realize it before its too late and EVE is a thing of the past, put in the minds of many as a game they used to play, especially after 7 years of hard work and real money for myself anyways...
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:30:00 -
[590]
On the bright side carrier futures are looking very rosy, buy now ---
I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :( |
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:31:00 -
[591]
Originally by: Terracian SHcorp Edited by: Terracian SHcorp on 13/11/2009 00:29:38 Its a good thing they cant delete my posts everywhere else showing my opinion about this thread not allowing negative opinions of CCP's Iron hand, trying to stop people from voicing there opinions...
These new changes are going to cost them in the long run and I hope they realize it before its too late and EVE is a thing of the past, put in the minds of many as a game they used to play, especially after 7 years of hard work and real money for myself anyways...
exactly.....EVE "was" a great game....on to a new one I suppose |
HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:32:00 -
[592]
the thing i love long term is that nerfs usually become buffs again at some point if changes go to far once it goes live, ccp has quickly changed things before the best protest everyone can do is disucss it before hand but if the changes to thro as is just park youre motherships if they suddenly stop being used all over ccp will very quickly make additional chnages Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:33:00 -
[593]
Originally by: HeliosGal the thing i love long term is that nerfs usually become buffs again at some point if changes go to far once it goes live, ccp has quickly changed things before the best protest everyone can do is disucss it before hand but if the changes to thro as is just park youre motherships if they suddenly stop being used all over ccp will very quickly make additional chnages
Exactly, take the rough with the smooth. I for one, however, don't want to stop my roaring trade in tissues being sold to people raging on here so they can wipe their spittle-flecked chops. ---
I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :( |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:35:00 -
[594]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:36:13
Originally by: Battle Tested so is CCP gonna reimburse me the 6 billion isk difference? I finally built one specifically for the new role and loved the looks of it....now you completely nerf it to be worthless again and on top of that are reducing build cost by 50% and expect us to praise you? anybody got a link to the new Star Trek Online game? I think it's time to leave EVE and find a new game.
Hang on
You got a ship built because of what it was like ON THE TEST SERVER
The very same test server which is well known to be for the testing of POSSIBLE new game features
You looked at the thread outlining the changes which was PLASTERED WITH DISCLAIMERS SAYING PROPOSED CHANGES WERE NOT FINAL
So you speculated, and lost out. Bad luck. Markets go down as well as up.
Now you are going to play star trek online (tee hee) because some more non final changes have been announced.
This is what you are telling us? And we should be upset to see you leave because?
SKUNK (o)
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Terracian SHcorp
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:35:00 -
[595]
and if we all self distruct them the day before Dominion goes live for a better payout, Will CCP then deney our insurance too??
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:36:00 -
[596]
Hey if any of you are quitting over this i'd happily give your assets a home.
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Tebis
BlackTalon Mining Corp G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:36:00 -
[597]
eh most of the rage is over how this was presented to the community rather than the actual nerf.. it was pretty terrible PR
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Ele Snow
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:37:00 -
[598]
This is crazy, after all the testing and positive feedback someone randomly steps in and hits people who have worked for years to be able to afford a mothership in the teeth.
Not committed to a fight? have you ever been in a large 0.0 battle? both sides caps are normally bubbled for the entire fight. have you heard of hics? you bring a mothership to a fight and you are committed for the duration, win or die.
And as for cutting the build cost of something so expensive by so much, its insane. If you wanted to completely change the ship why not introduce a new class, hell use the old carrier models. But for the love of god don't **** over every mom pilot like this. I sold everything it took me years to accumulate to afford one and now you've made it a ****ty ship and screwed me out of 10b
Thanks CCP, guess its time for a new game.
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:39:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Ele Snow This is crazy, after all the testing and positive feedback someone randomly steps in and hits people who have worked for years to be able to afford a mothership in the teeth.
Not committed to a fight? have you ever been in a large 0.0 battle? both sides caps are normally bubbled for the entire fight. have you heard of hics? you bring a mothership to a fight and you are committed for the duration, win or die.
And as for cutting the build cost of something so expensive by so much, its insane. If you wanted to completely change the ship why not introduce a new class, hell use the old carrier models. But for the love of god don't **** over every mom pilot like this. I sold everything it took me years to accumulate to afford one and now you've made it a ****ty ship and screwed me out of 10b
Thanks CCP, guess its time for a new game.
A tissue for you, madam ---
I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :( |
FlashSpawn
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:39:00 -
[600]
CCP:
2 weeks ago I put a Nyx into build, it cost me 12.5B in minerals to build the comps.
Through no fault of mine at all or market movement or speculation, I can now only sell the ship for 6B tops? So I have lost 6B+ though no fault of mine, is that fair? Can you comment on this?
Flash
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:41:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Tebis eh most of the rage is over how this was presented to the community rather than the actual nerf.. it was pretty terrible PR
If youve played the game long enough to afford and be able to fly a super cap - you will be no strange to CCPs woefull PR. So dont act all shocked and melodramatic.
You will also remember, however, CCP Zuluparks "proposed carrier nerf" which never hit the game due to massive whinage from capital pilots.
Given the time between then and now, and the skill training times and isk costs of the MOM, I suspect its THE VERY SAME WHINERS WHO CRUSHED CCP ZULUPARK THAT ARE TRYING TO SQUASH CCP NOZH.
Im giving 2 to 1 on, that CCP back down again on this one. You wait and see
SKUNK
(o)
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Iguny
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:41:00 -
[602]
Edited by: Iguny on 13/11/2009 00:41:43
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Quote: What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role
Isn't that exactly what it was on SISI, up until a few days ago?
Originally by: CCP Nozh which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets
"Explosion Velocity: 45"
???
Quote: nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage
My nyx can move 80 m/s while it kills things, YES!
Quote: The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts
You're right, your supercap player base is dumb and overlooking this fact. Oh, and taking multiple billions worth of mostly uninsurable super cap onto the field isn't a commitment, nor is having a dedicated account/character + pos to keep it.
Originally by: CCP Nozh There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
Innapropriate language removed. Zymurgist
This man is speakin truth!
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Quote: What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role
Isn't that exactly what it was on SISI, up until a few days ago?
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:42:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Ikoma Sunblazer HOLY **** THEY GOT MODS ON STANDBY MY POSTD GOT DELETED QUICKFAST
Ikoma Sunblazer, danger2society
Seriously though, as waaaaaaaaaaah/raaaaaage as many of the posts are, the amount of deletion that is going on is unwarranted (let us read the tears CCP // let people who just lost 10b express their frustration).
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:43:00 -
[604]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 13/11/2009 00:43:52
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:36:13
Originally by: Battle Tested so is CCP gonna reimburse me the 6 billion isk difference? I finally built one specifically for the new role and loved the looks of it....now you completely nerf it to be worthless again and on top of that are reducing build cost by 50% and expect us to praise you? anybody got a link to the new Star Trek Online game? I think it's time to leave EVE and find a new game.
Hang on
You got a ship built because of what it was like ON THE TEST SERVER
The very same test server which is well known to be for the testing of POSSIBLE new game features
You looked at the thread outlining the changes which was PLASTERED WITH DISCLAIMERS SAYING PROPOSED CHANGES WERE NOT FINAL
So you speculated, and lost out. Bad luck. Markets go down as well as up.
Now you are going to play star trek online (tee hee) because some more non final changes have been announced.
This is what you are telling us? And we should be upset to see you leave because?
SKUNK
There was a devblog showing their intentions with the motherships. The now prenerf design had been on sisi for months with little to no remarks for any changes and now 2 weeks before dominion hits ccp turns around 180¦ changing the whole class. There is speculating and there is being prepared, changing the 2nd most expensive shipclass by such a margin 2 weeks before dominion hits is so ridicolous it was impossible to see coming. -
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Cold Burn
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:44:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:36:13
Originally by: Battle Tested so is CCP gonna reimburse me the 6 billion isk difference? I finally built one specifically for the new role and loved the looks of it....now you completely nerf it to be worthless again and on top of that are reducing build cost by 50% and expect us to praise you? anybody got a link to the new Star Trek Online game? I think it's time to leave EVE and find a new game.
Hang on
You got a ship built because of what it was like ON THE TEST SERVER
The very same test server which is well known to be for the testing of POSSIBLE new game features
You looked at the thread outlining the changes which was PLASTERED WITH DISCLAIMERS SAYING PROPOSED CHANGES WERE NOT FINAL
So you speculated, and lost out. Bad luck. Markets go down as well as up.
Now you are going to play star trek online (tee hee) because some more non final changes have been announced.
This is what you are telling us? And we should be upset to see you leave because?
SKUNK
The Dev Blog
That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
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RedSplat
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:47:00 -
[606]
I'm voicing dissent with CCP with regard to game development, PR and doubting those responsible for this slice of hell play EVE.
Perhaps you should delete this post.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:48:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Battle Tested exactly.....EVE "was" a great game....on to a new one I suppose
who wouldve thought...an NC pilot bitter because his blob of supercaps wont be as powerful as they once were...
If this is all we had to do to get the NC to cancel their accounts, then I'm ALL for it.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:48:00 -
[608]
Originally by: Le Skunk You will also remember, however, CCP Zuluparks "proposed carrier nerf" which never hit the game due to massive whinage from capital pilots.
I'm still of the mind that the whole escapade was a massive CCP troll just to see what would happen. For this change however I can see logical argument fom both sides and its also hard to not feel sympathy for players who bought and trained all the high ranks level 5 skills needed to fly the current mothership.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:49:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Cold Burn
The Dev Blog
That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
Another thing to add is the extend of planning and work that goes into building supercaps. Acquiring all the minerals compression, logistics etc etc is a weeks long process. When dominion hits all supercap production arrays are offlined, meaning the supercaps still in build terminated. This forced ppl to either start buildjobs early to have their ship get ready before dominion hits (weeks before dominion for supercarriers) or wait til after dominion without having sov4.
CCP must have known and expected this, they also must know about the many ppl now having supercaps in build unable to safe their money on this 180¦ change. Its a F.Off decision made by ccp that really stings. -
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Tillakna
Gallente Rim Collection RC Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:49:00 -
[610]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Hang on
You got a ship built because of what it was like ON THE TEST SERVER
The very same test server which is well known to be for the testing of POSSIBLE new game features
You looked at the thread outlining the changes which was PLASTERED WITH DISCLAIMERS SAYING PROPOSED CHANGES WERE NOT FINAL
So you speculated, and lost out. Bad luck. Markets go down as well as up.
Now you are going to play star trek online (tee hee) because some more non final changes have been announced.
This is what you are telling us? And we should be upset to see you leave because?
SKUNK
You speak without clear insight of the depth of the situation and how it came about.
The sudden change was unwarranted after CCP explained the intended roles and had the proposed changes on Sisi for weeks with direct feedback with CCP on site in the Test server.
We asked CCP and worked around what they proposed, then came the rapidfire changes and no communication (as of yet).
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:50:00 -
[611]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
Reading this it makes me think...
Specially on this part:
Quote: Explosion Radius: 3500
and this
Quote: provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots.
What do you mean? Targetpainters?
Isnt that a EW module? And what happens with EW modules and remote sensorboosters when you put your carrier in triage or dread in siege?
Thats correct!!
You cant remote rep, remote boost or use EW on them, if I`m not greatly mistaken.
So your ship that you are calling a capital killer, will only deal about 50% of that DPS when attacking dreads in siege. Wich is where you will find dreads most of the time. Great one CCP!
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Thesiuss
Oberon Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:51:00 -
[612]
Wow amazing.
I sold my nyx several months ago and recently sold the pilot, and I see now I'm better for it.
I feel so sorry for this hammer that's about to hit all the MS pilots. But with the drop in the build cost as stated before the MS will truely be the new BS for fleets. You'll defaintly have ALOT more MS flying about therefor negating any reduction in lag with the nerf to the number of fighters that can be controlled.
It all just seems poorly thought out and rushed. It may be best to delay the new patch to more fully explore the implitcations of these changes.
Just my 2 cents.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:51:00 -
[613]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:52:06 Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:51:07
Originally by: Cold Burn
The Dev Blog
That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
Quote: CCP Abathurs first post:
Please use this thread to discuss all things Supercarrier related. Bear in mind that the numbers on the test server are subject to (and probably will) change more than once in the coming weeks.
It clearly states numbers MAY CHANGE from what is on the test server. In fact it says they PROBABLY WILL change. In fact it even goes further to say they probably will change MORE THEN ONCE.
How more explicit can they get? If you took a gamble and lost, bad luck. Be more prudent in future.
Quote:
We wanted to get this information out sooner rather than later to ensure time for proper feedback and balancing.
I do fail to see however that if they felt the need to put the information out three months early to ensure proper testing, feedback and balacing - why they now suddenly only need two weeks to achieve the proper testing, feedback and balancing for the new setups
SKUNK (o)
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:53:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Originally by: Cold Burn
The Dev Blog
That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
Another thing to add is the extend of planning and work that goes into building supercaps. Acquiring all the minerals compression, logistics etc etc is a weeks long process. When dominion hits all supercap production arrays are offlined, meaning the supercaps still in build terminated. This forced ppl to either start buildjobs early to have their ship get ready before dominion hits (weeks before dominion for supercarriers) or wait til after dominion without having sov4.
CCP must have known and expected this, they also must know about the many ppl now having supercaps in build unable to safe their money on this 180¦ change. Its a F.Off decision made by ccp that really stings.
exactly, they stated in stone "THIS IS THE NEW MOTHERSHIP CHANGES" not this is a test to see if we like it. they told us that this is the new mothership and even changed it's name to supercarrier, posted all specs, took praise from the community and then turned around and slapped us in the face. |
Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:53:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Cold Burn That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
Theres makeing tweeks to how things work and stuff but to totaly change a ship when there was no need is what people are mad at Thay had a working ship the changes thay had allready made were fine other than maybe a tweek here or there but to half the price of the ship + half its DPS and make it 100% easyer to kill of its DPS is just madness (yes this is sparta) I think you might be a bit mad if you had just lost bill's in isk and loads of wasted time as well.
or maybe you think your time is worthless? if you do then i will give you a job no prob.
---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
Tillakna
Gallente Rim Collection RC Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:55:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Le Skunk
I do fail to see however that if they felt the need to put the information out three months early to ensure proper testing, feedback and balacing - why they now suddenly only need two weeks to achieve the proper testing, feedback and balancing for the new setups
SKUNK
Exactly
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Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:57:00 -
[617]
Base cost of a Nyx is 15.8b.
Base insurance will pay out 6.32b.
I'm sure if the current changes are still what CCP wish to go with the day before Dominion, I won't be the only one considering self-destructing.
Not a whine from me, if that's the way they want SC to be, then their use will drop to nil.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:02:00 -
[618]
ill make it easy for you guys to understand.
these changes cause a loss of fighterbomber DPS against virtually all situations in which capitals will be used, and a 50% drop in supercarrier DPS when using non-fighterbomber drones.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:05:00 -
[619]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 01:06:37
Originally by: Battle Tested
exactly, they stated in stone "THIS IS THE NEW MOTHERSHIP CHANGES" not this is a test to see if we like it. they told us that this is the new mothership and even changed it's name to supercarrier, posted all specs, took praise from the community and then turned around and slapped us in the face.
This is what is written in that blog
Quote:
Motherships no more...
Perhaps no ships in EVE symbolize the majesty of the game more than the Nyx, Wyvern, Aeon and Hel. Featured in dozens of player-made movies, official trailers and screenshots, it is a sad testimony that their presence has not been a factor on the capital battlefields of EVE for quite some time. The simple fact is that this class of ship now stays mostly parked on trained alts and is rarely used as they are nothing more than expensive targets for hungry legions of Dread pilots.
No more.
Motherships are being reclassified as Supercarriers. The name of æMothership' has long caused confusion as to what the intended role of these ships was supposed to be but we are finally putting that to rest. This refocusing will see these ships go through a few changes. Gone will be:
+ The ability for Supercarriers to fit Triage modules.
+ The ability for Supercarriers to fit Clone Vat Bays.
+ The ability for Supercarriers to fit one additional Warfare Link per level.
One side effect of this change is that the build cost for Supercarriers will go down slightly as they will no longer require the Capital Clone Vat Bay components.
What are they getting? In addition to receiving their own hit point boost, Supercarriers are going to get new teeth in the form of the deadly new Fighter Bombers they can launch. Fighter Bombers have exactly one purpose: to destroy capital ships and look very cool while doing so. Here is the Gallente version:
Fighter Bombers will be unique to the Supercarrier class, launching specialized torpedoes capable of inflicting immense damage against other capital ships. We are still looking at a few other ideas that will help Supercarriers do their jobs more effectively and you may see those popping up on SiSi in the coming weeks.
One more thing - the Hel is getting rid of its current repair bonuses and trading them in for bonuses that enhance the endurance of its Fighters and Fighter Bombers. I guess the Flight Deck Chiefs on Hels like duct taping spare bits of armor onto their strike craft or something...
Where does this contradict the MOM in its new proposed state?
Hit point boost, Fighter Bomber capability, No more triage/clone bay, drop in build price (albeit erroneously quantified as "slightly"). Its all there
SKUNK
(o)
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:17:00 -
[620]
If the by nozh posted changes go through im likely selfdestructing my sc, banking 6b and using achimera and phoenix instead - not to mention subcaps.. -
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:19:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists If the by nozh posted changes go through im likely selfdestructing my sc, banking 6b and using achimera and phoenix instead - not to mention subcaps..
phoenixes are also currently getting ****ed in the ass fyi
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Silver Wizard
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:23:00 -
[622]
Seriously, what the ****?!
I have a character that has trained NOTHING but skills related to a NYX since creation(2005). In a game that uses REAL TIME for skill training you guys need to seriously consider how much of peoples real time you are throwing away with such changes.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:25:00 -
[623]
Originally by: Le Skunk
It clearly states numbers MAY CHANGE from what is on the test server. In fact it says they PROBABLY WILL change. In fact it even goes further to say they probably will change MORE THEN ONCE.
How more explicit can they get? If you took a gamble and lost, bad luck. Be more prudent in future.
SKUNK
Generally, when a product is universally well received during testing, you can expect the final product to be released as it was tested.
Colonies and Capitals |
Tillakna
Gallente Rim Collection RC Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:28:00 -
[624]
Originally by: Silver Wizard Seriously, what the ****?!
I have a character that has trained NOTHING but skills related to a NYX since creation(2005). In a game that uses REAL TIME for skill training you guys need to seriously consider how much of peoples real time you are throwing away with such changes.
Yep, same here. have a supercarrier (mothership) alt just to fly a Nyx... now I'll just sell it off or even biomass it out of disgust and cancel that account subscription.
The change is just bad for both sides in my view; less happy paying customers, less income for CCP.
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Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:33:00 -
[625]
Originally by: "Nyx Spire"
the difference here is phenomenal
one go into each mother ship file, delete description lines "3 fighters per lvl" change to 1 fighter per lvl, then go further down in file find drone control bandwidth line adjust lower. further down in file find class skill lines of code that relates to description and adjust them to 1 extra drone per lvl. make sure no misstacks and save
VS
go into each fighter bomber file scroll down to drone band width and delete push number 62.5 and save
leave drone bandwidth at 625 so 25 fighters can be fielded but up FB bandwidth to 62 so only ten can be fielded.
now pay me my weekly wage so you can get your subscriptions back from all the people that just cancelled
just cross posting this from the other thread as it smacks of winsauce
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Terracian SHcorp
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:34:00 -
[626]
And it wont be just the MS acct, because you know that person has more than one acct of course, so 2 or 3 or 6 accts per person maybe, and then it will be too late for CCP to say" Opps, were sry, we didnt mean to do that" , because we will all be playing something else....
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Aurelius Valentius
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:44:00 -
[627]
I recently checked this thread out, then I went on SiSi and then I came back here...what is the big deal?
The new mothership or supercarrier is fine... it has alot of EHP, it's big and slow and impressive as it goes by, and it's got a great jump engine (now it can even go in High-Sec and use Jump-Gates!) and it can hold tones of ships... so it's slots got nerfed, so it's drones got nerfed, so it's many other things got nerfed... I like it, so... like me, Fly the "New Mother(F)Ships" they are even easier to train to and come in a couple of paint schemes:
The New Amarr Super-Carrier-Ark... Get one now, only 55B and rising, I love mine, you will too... just wait til they see you coming in null sec!!!
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Oslo
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:46:00 -
[628]
Perfect.... Saved up for a MOM and finally bought one 4 months ago and now its going to be completely useless plus I can't sell it to start saving for something better like the next MOMs or a Titan. Excellent work CCP... let me tell you, I'm feeling so excited to pay my next subscription for my multiple accounts. Congrats on failing at customer satisfaction!!!!!!!!
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Sallah Rallah
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:52:00 -
[629]
I do wonder who stands to benefit from this; if it was to be not the end result. Is it possible someone will buy up supercaps as the fire-sales ensue following the disgust and lack of official comments or responses? Could someone feeling confident in knowing that the nerfs life span is not long to live and end up with a few supercaps for cheap just before dominion? Who could do such a thing I wonder...
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GB Immensea
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:57:00 -
[630]
Originally by: Aurelius Valentius I recently checked this thread out, then I went on SiSi and then I came back here...what is the big deal?
The new mothership or supercarrier is fine... it has alot of EHP, it's big and slow and impressive as it goes by, and it's got a great jump engine (now it can even go in High-Sec and use Jump-Gates!) and it can hold tones of ships... so it's slots got nerfed, so it's drones got nerfed, so it's many other things got nerfed... I like it, so... like me, Fly the "New Mother(F)Ships" they are even easier to train to and come in a couple of paint schemes:
The New Amarr Super-Carrier-Ark... Get one now, only 55B and rising, I love mine, you will too... just wait til they see you coming in null sec!!!
I lol'd
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:58:00 -
[631]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 13/11/2009 01:58:38 Nozh, recipe for not ****ing up motherships and making your DCUs better:
return prices to pre-nozh rofllulf*cked levels keep +1 drone per lvl add 20% drone dmg/hp per lvl make DCUs give +1 drone AND +7.5% drone dmg per lvl (dmg bonus stacking penalized) take pre-nozh rofllulf*cked compact torp stats and reduce torp damage slightly.
With a 10% reduction in base F/B dps, you'd see approx. 23.2%/38.3% increase over pre-nozh f/b SC with 2/3 DCUs, respectively. Given the huge implications of using up high slots for more damage, I'd say this is about right.
P.S. they will also be useful on carriers for...whenever people actually use carriers for dps.
Bing! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Erovicious
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:04:00 -
[632]
Official request for refund on the investment we've made on building a Nyx. With almost double the "new" price invested in the current hull in the oven, we've been bent over w/out even going to dinner first. No one is going to touch our product now for anything resembling the money we've invested in it.
CCP - there is epic fail, then there is this. This is going to require new terminology. Pretty sure I know something that would suit but would probably get me forum banned.
Thanks CCP, just remove the isk from our wallets next time and save yourself the time of writing an 'expansion'.
*Ero*
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Voight Kampf
OEG GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:06:00 -
[633]
CCP should give MS pilots a chance to dock their MSs before Dominion so they can reprocess them and build new ones of reduced cost. Still don't understand where this changes will take eve =/
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Sephiroth CloneIIV
Doomheim. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:11:00 -
[634]
I think the change of having different fighters (bombers) with this new carrier could make it more different then normal carriers, and interesting (less lag having a few more powerful drones then lots of weaker).
Though to make things balanced and fair, the super carrier should be powerful close to its cost, and have a ballance of different roles for cap ships.
Carrier: can easly kill anything small and big (but taking a while for big things when compared with others), can remotely fight things
Dread: Good for seiging stationary and other caps, has extream dificulty hiting anything smaller then battleship, has to be in same area as what its fighting
Super carrier: tones more killing power (10X) of larger ships when compared with normal carrier, mabey bombers have moderate range with attack so can't be smartbombed (though has trouble hiting anything smaller then battleship). Can fight remotely
Titan: like a dread but bigger, super attack
So.. each one be better at some tasks then others, and have a reason for using one over the other depending on situation and ways to counter each one.
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:15:00 -
[635]
I think the best approach may be to split the bonuses for fighters vs fighter bombs. Have 3 fighters per level like normal, but then 1 fighter bomber per level. Either that, or make the fighter bomber bandwidth twice as high as a regular fighter.
While it means supercarriers won't have the huge amount of DPS through fighter bombers that people were expecting, they will still retain their regular fighter DPS. ----------------------------------------------------
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Armadaus Baldwin
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:16:00 -
[636]
Edited by: Armadaus Baldwin on 13/11/2009 02:17:57
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
You're (CCP) not smart.
Brilliant way of saying "FU" to those who already have them, while making them more useless than before. Bloody awesome.
In honor of 02-05-09, and our new Goon Overlords.
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:18:00 -
[637]
Theres plenty of patchs were Pilots have recieved compensation for nurfs (slot 6/7 implants the last i can remember) I would suggest that the same is done with this patch, where any pilot that is in a MoM during the patch recieves the Mineral difference of the new/old moms at the station their clone is set.
yes this will upset Market mineral costs for a while, becuase its litrially Trillions of isk in minerals, but the other option that you look like going with is to simply remove those trillions of isk worth of effort/time completely from the game.
You realise this Nurf creates the highest chance of CCP emplyees being Assualted at the next fanfest right, of any patch previously implimented? This isnt a Patch thats shafting new players, or mid age players, this a a nurf that is directly effecting the players that have played the game longest, and invested the most time/isk into their Goals.
I honestly believe there are going to be dozens of Emo Pilots with enough simmering rage next fanfest, to risk whatever Icelands court systems can throw at them, simply to vent their frustration of So much time/effort/isk being wasted.
I can't believe how far CCP/Customer relations has fallen in the last few years.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:23:00 -
[638]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Quote: nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage
My nyx can move 80 m/s while it kills things, YES!
Stationary = Sieged. C'mon
Quote: You're right, your supercap player base is dumb and overlooking this fact. Oh, and taking multiple billions worth of mostly uninsurable super cap onto the field isn't a commitment, nor is having a dedicated account/character + pos to keep it.
If I remember correctly, there will be an 0.0 outpost upgrade that will allow supercapitals to dock. Even if that is not the case, you need (cyno) alts to be a capital pilot anyhow, and you could train a holder alt quicker than you can make your Carrier pilot goes from lvl 4s to lvl 5s in relevant skills. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Nobuko Satoishi
Amarr MOTHER-CORP Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:28:00 -
[639]
So dissapointed that ive spent the last 3 years perfecting my toons for caps / super caps to have the endgame taken away, CCP have you ever seen Blizzard remove the lv50/60/70 raids from the game, and they have 7-8 million subscribers to your half a million?
The changes you advertised by turning motherships into carriers got people excited, they thought they were good, they thought that in all the c**p you were throwing at them there was one saving grace and that was the mothership / supercarrier changes.
Man id hate to be ur kids at christmas "Here you go little jhonny ive got you an electric ferarri for your present... oh wait only kidding you get an old cardboard box to play with - HAHA"
Seriously please listen to your paying customers Sony thought they could change their game however they wanted to, guess what happened?? people dont play it anymore and they had the whole StarWars franchise to keep people.
This game is epic, the concept at least, dont over dramatise your changes, make small modifications and let the game evolve, thats what your meant to do, not play god. Infact remembering what your lead dev's told the channel 4 programme about how games were getting to the point where they were as important to people as real life (ie people fighting legal battles over second life IP and winning the litigation) whilst sitting in some lagoon somewhere in iceland saying "yes we have a the CSM who help us avoid the greek god syndrome that other MMO's have" and guess what here you are with your zeus hat on, locking threads, removing peoples perfectly valid opinions and sticking your head into the sand or putting your fingers in your ears and saying "LA LA LA LA LA IF I KEEP SINGING I CANT HEAR YOU" like 5 year olds.
Now go sit in the corner till you've thought about what you've done and when ur ready to make a mends for your thoughtless actions and roll back the epic fail your suggesting then maybe you can come and play with the other game dev houses again.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:32:00 -
[640]
"With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have, and it's not a mistake we're going to make again."
"[The mistake was] to not just think we know the right direction without bringing the fans into the mix. We made the cardinal sin of not listening, but assuming and we were wrong."
— John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment _______ Local is fine, period.
CCP devs, you nerfed shield resists by 8.3% but armor by 7.1% (The old Explo/EM "10 points" Nerf). When will you correct this inconsistency ? |
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Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:36:00 -
[641]
Originally by: CCP Navigator H
No one is saying not to express your opinion or provide feedback, but please do it within the rules of this forum. Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
So why have the CSM, why hire players to developer/gm posisitions so often, why even have us pay. It's your world, we're quite content to let you live there alone if you think we should have no say.
Talk about a ******ed PR department.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
toxicvega
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:40:00 -
[642]
Well if they decide to allow 20 drones/fighters and 10FBs with increased damage/HP I will be just fine.
We actually got lucky, sold off the last one we hade just as the Boost reports were comming in and cleared a nice bit of change. We decided to hold off on the next few till after the patch. Looks like we made the right choice.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:42:00 -
[643]
Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 13/11/2009 02:39:33
Originally by: CCP Navigator H
No one is saying not to express your opinion or provide feedback, but please do it within the rules of this forum. Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
So why have the CSM, why hire players to developer/gm posisitions so often, why even have us pay. It's your world, we're quite content to let you live there alone if you think we should have no say.
Talk about a ******ed PR department.
You guys ****ed up, don't blame us for calling you out on your mistake. You guys think this has no impact on us? This is our money, our invested time, our invested will, and determination that allow you guys to have a job. We have every right in the world to tell you exactly what we think, and to ban us over it is just another step towards a downward sprial to the realm of SWG and all the other failed MMO's.
So let me suggest something, kindly stfu and let your bosses make those stupid post that cost them their members and just be the lowly peon employee of theirs that you need to be.
The cool thing about tux and hammer is, they actually cared and listened.
Community is the name of the Division that Navigator and Stevie work for in CCP. Calm down. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:44:00 -
[644]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 13/11/2009 02:46:04
Originally by: toxicvega Well if they decide to allow 20 drones/fighters and 10FBs with increased damage/HP I will be just fine.
Don't forget that nozh made explosion radius on f/b torps about double the sig rad of a dread. Over 2x what it was before. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:48:00 -
[645]
Originally by: Artemis Rose If I remember correctly, there will be an 0.0 outpost upgrade that will allow supercapitals to dock.
you remember wrong.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Zhentor
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:49:00 -
[646]
"With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have, and it's not a mistake we're going to make again."
"[The mistake was] to not just think we know the right direction without bringing the fans into the mix. We made the cardinal sin of not listening, but assuming and we were wrong."
ù John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment
I think that this quote is particularly applicable, and should be repeated often.
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:52:00 -
[647]
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Roemy Schneider what if.... carrier level added +1 and DCU added +2 or +3?
Smartbomb, Neut, Remote Rep, Remote ECM Burst, Cloak
What are, 'things far more useful in a supercarrier highslot' for 1000.
That's why, even if DCU's would add +5 drones per ADU-level, they would still be 'useless'. After a few different tackle-scenarios it gets painfully obvious that two neuts is too few, you need at least three. RR is a nobrainer, I know some POS-huggers live without cloak and alot of people dislike the ECM burst. So let's pretend you just fit three neuts, a smartbomb and two RR in high.. where the hell is my highslot for even a single DCU? It gets even worse if you'd try to squeeze in cloak and ECM bursts.
It just doesn't matter how much boost the DCU gets, it's never gonna be useful enough. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Blaststar Revenge
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Posted - 2009.11.13 02:55:00 -
[648]
And still no reply from CCP ?
I was hoping that after 9 hours sleep I would have at least seen some sort official reply.
Oh, well. 3 accounts removed from automatic billing cycle.
I find it quite disturbing that they can implement changes to the game and yet seem to have no appreciation for the effects that those changes bring about in a non Sisi environment. It seems too many devs think they know how the game is played as opposed to how it is actually played and how people want to play it. Why on earth they would want to change a proposal that had no negative feedback and only praise for it is beyond me.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:08:00 -
[649]
Christmas is approaching. Other MMOs are coming out with awesome expansions. Take LOTRO for example: a huge new area, lot's of new endgame content, new and innovative things like the skirmish system. You see lot's of excitement on the forums, people can't wait to play this and count the days for release.
What do we get here ? Few weeks ago an announcement, that MS will regain some of the glory they once had as majestic ships. People rejoiced, made plans in the future, the MS manufactories got into gear, pre-orders were made, resources gathered, skills polished. And then this. A slap in the face as a Christmas present for the most loyal customers, in a time where the amount of players is stagnating or even declining for more than half a year now (proof: 2nd graph). But not only they burst the recently created hopes and expectations, no, on top of that they devaluate the current MS, making all that hundreds of hours, that people invested to get the current MS waste and void, to add insult to injury. Very nice customers relations that is (not).
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:18:00 -
[650]
sounds like ccps usual customer relations efforts they make lots of changes markets go bonkers and then they pull it back and billions are lost love it Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:30:00 -
[651]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 13/11/2009 03:32:25 Ok, after a bit of math, it looks like when CCP Nozh called them anti-capital ships, he in fact meant anti-supercapital. Because the paper DPS do not hold up against normal capitals. As the mythbusters would say: "reality makes for a poor special effects crew". In this spirit, let's do a reality check:
Supercarriers with 3500m explosion radius (ER) on their fighter bombers: - Aeon, Nyx, Wyvern Supercarriers with 2187.5m explosion radius (ER) on their fighter bombers: - Hel (carrier skill 5)
Target 1: Naglfar with 3x Lg CDFE I, In Siege, 1886m sig, 0m/s velocity: - Damage applied, 3500m ER: 53.88% (DPS: 4800 -> 2586.24)(Nyx: 6000 -> 3232.8) - Damage applied, 2187m ER: 86.21% (DPS: 4800 -> 4138.08)
Target 2: Naglfar with 3x Lg CDFE I, Full Thrust, 1886m sig, 106m/s velocity: - Damage applied, 3500m ER: 19.69% (DPS: 4800 -> 945.12)(Nyx: 6000 -> 1181.4) - Damage applied, 2187m ER: 33.03% (DPS: 4800 -> 1585.44)
Target 3: Nidhoggur, Standstill, 2865m sig, 0m/s velocity: - Damage applied, 3500m ER: 81.8% (DPS: 4800 -> 3926.4)(Nyx: 6000 -> 4908) - Damage applied, 2187m ER: 100% (DPS: 4800)
Target 4: Nidhoggur, Full Thrust, 2865m sig, 112.5m/s velocity: - Damage applied, 3500m ER: 29.19% (DPS: 4800 -> 1401.12)(Nyx: 6000 -> 1751.4) - Damage applied, 2187m ER: 48.97% (DPS: 4800 -> 2350.56)
Target 5: Hel, Standstill or Full Thrust: - Damage applied, 3500m ER: 100% - Damage applied, 2187m ER: 100%
Target 6: Ragnarok, Standstill or Full Thrust, With or Without -37.5% sig bonus: - Damage applied, 3500m ER: 100% - Damage applied, 2187m ER: 100%
CONCLUSION: The rebalancing of supercarriers set out to increase their survivability on today's capital battlefield and make them useful again, providing incentive to actually use these ships for something else than fighter delegation from within forcefields.
With the most recent change, the survivability that the changes by Abathur and Hammerhead provided is still intact.
They are, however, no longer useful. Their self-defence ability against sub-capital attackers got halved, creating problems to fend off a single decently fitted HIC or passive PVE Drake. Additionally, they absolutely fail to apply their already mediocre paper DPS against anything other than the broad side of a barn door. The goal set out in your latest posting Nozh, to create an anti-capital platform against moving targets, has not been reached. It has in fact been missed by an unbelievably large margin, with an effective DPS output between an overloaded Gank-BC and Gank-BS.
Practically every dreadnought outdamages these supercarriers in every conceivable halfway realistically scenario.
With the removal of nearly every special module the old motherships could fit, and this bad of an implementation of these ship's new role, this current version of them has to be considered even more useless than the motherships currently on TQ. This has nothing to do with /rage, /wrist or /emoragequit - while I have a dedicated account that I intended to skill into a Hel (because I like the ship model tbh) I haven't bought it yet - but is a pure, clean and innocent mathematical fact. Numbers don't lie.
[Edit] Missile Damage formula used: latest version of Stafen's formula, http://www.eve-search.com/thread/901280/page/3
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:40:00 -
[652]
in essense they have been cut off and rendered unable to mate and procreate. Well i think ccp wants titans and motherships out of game completley. So now its the return of carrier-dread blobs Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Ronha Ottrit
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:50:00 -
[653]
My super-cap alt accounts have been canceled. Saved me some money ccp, guess that is a good thing that came out of these changes. Thanks.
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Spetey II
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:53:00 -
[654]
who is gonna reimburse all the isk the mom pilots will loose to this ****?
its kinda ******* up that the ship will be that freaking cheap in 1 day.. ^^
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Taladool
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:56:00 -
[655]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Christmas is approaching. Other MMOs are coming out with awesome expansions. Take LOTRO for example: a huge new area, lot's of new endgame content, new and innovative things like the skirmish system. You see lot's of excitement on the forums, people can't wait to play this and count the days for release.
What do we get here ? Few weeks ago an announcement, that MS will regain some of the glory they once had as majestic ships. People rejoiced, made plans in the future, the MS manufactories got into gear, pre-orders were made, resources gathered, skills polished. And then this. A slap in the face as a Christmas present for the most loyal customers, in a time where the amount of players is stagnating or even declining for more than half a year now (proof: 2nd graph). But not only they burst the recently created hopes and expectations, no, on top of that they devaluate the current MS, making all that hundreds of hours, that people invested to get the current MS waste and void, to add insult to injury. Very nice customers relations that is (not).
Did you miss the large announcement where CCP banned over 6000 RMT 23/7 accounts in one go? I am all for stating your opinion's about how this change effects you, but at least back your facts up with solid evidence.
Past that, SISI is not TQ, anything you see on SISI is subject to change, and if you guys can't handle that its to bad.
Like it or not its CCP's game, and you pay to access it, if you don't like it, you know where the door is.
and lets review the Facts here,
Super Carrier has a bad name, check Super Carrier has 2x the dmg then before, check Super Carrier has 10x the EHP, check Super Carrier does 1.7 dreads worth of DPS without siege, check Super Carrier is about 1/2 the price of motherships, check
Im sorry but this looks pretty good to me considering they are completely useless on TQ unless you just like 13 to 20 bil isk assets for epeen. Or belt ratting with 25 fighters.
You seen stats that Might be used on TQ and pull exactly what CCP tells you time and time again not to do, you guys pull a crystal ball, and say its on SISI it has to be on TQ.
Now with the current stats I would consider buying a super carrier, were as before i would never waste the isk on a monthership..
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Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:57:00 -
[656]
EVERYONE CALM DOWN
Have you not been listening to what i have been saying,
FLAMING AND RANTING WONT WORK, you need to say what you want have changed about them and back up your reasoning.
Motherships are super capitals, they need are defined in their roles currently and a large command and control ship that allows the use of 15-25 fighters as support. They provide important logistics too such as clone vat bays and triage for pos's.
CCP do the right thing, make super carriers motherships again with fighter bombers.
IF ANYTHING!!!!!!!! change the fighter bomber bandwidth to limit the amount of fighter bombers that can be used.
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Aurelius Valentius
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.13 03:59:00 -
[657]
I vote for Jump-Freighter blobs and shuttles for BvB (Bump v Bump) as the new blob warfare ship of choice, with a much needed capacitor nerf first of course... that huge cap is way OP in the current TQ, and also add in Pod-Raging... with a suitable Pod Thruster Effect nerf... all that pod-thruster induced lag is a killer.
Over all, Shuttles and Freighters... what else does EVE need? reall? I mean... they are the perfect ships... you can't not fly them right... and they are cool looking... and the skills are so much like drivers education to fly, just basic skills and then your on the jump-routes.
Moms are a pointless waste of time, just as any module-possible ship, for each slot there is a great chance that someone will put something in it that's wrong, the answer, eliminate slots... they are evil, then any drones, and then guns, and then ammo, and finally it's a ease to open up low-null... in a non-violent Eden, we could all just sing a new song:
"I LOVE YOU, YOU LOVE ME, WE'RE JUST A BIG FAMILY... *shoots self in head and slumps to the floor*
...and I was planning on getting into an Aeon... WAS... now it's an Ark for sure, I hear they are handy during floods and end-of-the-world situations...
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Dammo
Universal Exports Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:01:00 -
[658]
Deer CCP, I have been playing this great game for over 3 years, seen many bad and good things. But as a long term customer can you please allow IT alliance (BoB) to be devs again? Because they did a better job then your current devs........
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Spetey II
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:02:00 -
[659]
Originally by: Taladool
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Christmas is approaching. Other MMOs are coming out with awesome expansions. Take LOTRO for example: a huge new area, lot's of new endgame content, new and innovative things like the skirmish system. You see lot's of excitement on the forums, people can't wait to play this and count the days for release.
What do we get here ? Few weeks ago an announcement, that MS will regain some of the glory they once had as majestic ships. People rejoiced, made plans in the future, the MS manufactories got into gear, pre-orders were made, resources gathered, skills polished. And then this. A slap in the face as a Christmas present for the most loyal customers, in a time where the amount of players is stagnating or even declining for more than half a year now (proof: 2nd graph). But not only they burst the recently created hopes and expectations, no, on top of that they devaluate the current MS, making all that hundreds of hours, that people invested to get the current MS waste and void, to add insult to injury. Very nice customers relations that is (not).
Did you miss the large announcement where CCP banned over 6000 RMT 23/7 accounts in one go? I am all for stating your opinion's about how this change effects you, but at least back your facts up with solid evidence.
Past that, SISI is not TQ, anything you see on SISI is subject to change, and if you guys can't handle that its to bad.
Like it or not its CCP's game, and you pay to access it, if you don't like it, you know where the door is.
and lets review the Facts here,
Super Carrier has a bad name, check Super Carrier has 2x the dmg then before, check Super Carrier has 10x the EHP, check Super Carrier does 1.7 dreads worth of DPS without siege, check Super Carrier is about 1/2 the price of motherships, check
Im sorry but this looks pretty good to me considering they are completely useless on TQ unless you just like 13 to 20 bil isk assets for epeen. Or belt ratting with 25 fighters.
You seen stats that Might be used on TQ and pull exactly what CCP tells you time and time again not to do, you guys pull a crystal ball, and say its on SISI it has to be on TQ.
Now with the current stats I would consider buying a super carrier, were as before i would never waste the isk on a monthership..
for the ppl who do waste isk on a mothership and worked there ass of for it they should be reimbursed... alot of time will go lost where we PAYED for, nice to spend money to a game wich will be trashed of they go ahead with it
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Taladool
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:04:00 -
[660]
Originally by: Mioelnir Very well done list of math proofs regarding dps.
thank you very much for doing all the math, its very useful, now CCP can take constructive feedback like this and use it, to help balance the difference, this is much better then the WHAA!! that 2/3s of this post is giving.
However in relation to this:
Quote: They are, however, no longer useful. Their self-defence ability against sub-capital attackers got halved, creating problems to fend off a single decently fitted HIC or passive PVE Drake. Additionally, they absolutely fail to apply their already mediocre paper DPS against anything other than the broad side of a barn door. The goal set out in your latest posting Nozh, to create an anti-capital platform against moving targets, has not been reached. It has in fact been missed by an unbelievably large margin, with an effective DPS output between an overloaded Gank-BC and Gank-BS.
Ok lets be honest, THIS IS A FLEET SHIP, ITS NOT A WTFBBQSOLOPWNANDBURN SHIP, your self defense is your ability to absorb huge amounts of dmg while waiting on your fleet to offer support for you. You are not supposed to be able to solo a supper carrier, or any capital ship for that matter, thats why fleets have Capitals > BS > [hics/hac/logisctics] -- inside the box would be your anti support, and support ships, those are they guys that protect you from the big mean enemy fleets. If your corp and or alliance cant field a support fleet, guess what, you shouldn't be fielding a super carrier...
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Ariel Dawn
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:05:00 -
[661]
Originally by: Nobuko Satoishi Edited by: Nobuko Satoishi on 13/11/2009 02:38:01 So dissapointed that ive spent the last 3 years perfecting my toons for caps / super caps to have the endgame taken away, CCP have you ever seen Blizzard remove the lv50/60/70 raids from the game, and they have 7-8 million subscribers to your half a million?
They're gaining 10x the EHP, a new weapon system, and reduction in cost at the trade off of being worse against smaller ships. Not the godlike anti-everything ships they were on Sisi, but I'd say still significantly more powerful than their live versions, right?
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:07:00 -
[662]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
EVERYONE CALM DOWN
Have you not been listening to what i have been saying,
FLAMING AND RANTING WONT WORK, you need to say what you want have changed about them and back up your reasoning.
Motherships are super capitals, they need are defined in their roles currently and a large command and control ship that allows the use of 15-25 fighters as support. They provide important logistics too such as clone vat bays and triage for pos's.
CCP do the right thing, make super carriers motherships again with fighter bombers.
IF ANYTHING!!!!!!!! change the fighter bomber bandwidth to limit the amount of fighter bombers that can be used.
Except that you cant use command modules clonevat bay or triage on the super carrier. So I will continue to rage. Dominion is gonna be the biggest pile of turd exspansion. Alliances wont give up space so nothing changes in 0.0 because the upgrades arent anywhere good enough to make alliances need less space. Titans with 10min ROF and 100% dmg bonus is a joke. You wont see a titan on the field at all unless its a complete turkey shoot. Supercarriers are pitiful when a dread can out dps them. This exspansion is horrible yes ive thought objectively about it its horrible.
CCP GDIAF ______________________________
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Bulldug
Starlight Enterprise RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:07:00 -
[663]
Im not a ms pilot but this is just epic fail at public relations. It's this kind of bad buisness conduct that are compromising honesty and integrity of CCP. |
Taladool
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:09:00 -
[664]
Originally by: Taladool
Originally by: Mioelnir Very well done list of math proofs regarding dps.
thank you very much for doing all the math, its very useful, now CCP can take constructive feedback like this and use it, to help balance the difference, this is much better then the WHAA!! that 2/3s of this post is giving.
However in relation to this:
Quote: They are, however, no longer useful. Their self-defence ability against sub-capital attackers got halved, creating problems to fend off a single decently fitted HIC or passive PVE Drake. Additionally, they absolutely fail to apply their already mediocre paper DPS against anything other than the broad side of a barn door. The goal set out in your latest posting Nozh, to create an anti-capital platform against moving targets, has not been reached. It has in fact been missed by an unbelievably large margin, with an effective DPS output between an overloaded Gank-BC and Gank-BS.
Ok lets be honest, THIS IS A FLEET SHIP, ITS NOT A WTFBBQSOLOPWNANDBURN SHIP, your self defense is your ability to absorb huge amounts of dmg while waiting on your fleet to offer support for you. You are not supposed to be able to solo a supper carrier, or any capital ship for that matter, thats why fleets have Capitals > BS > [hics/hac/logisctics] -- inside the box would be your anti support, and support ships, those are they guys that protect you from the big mean enemy fleets. If your corp and or alliance cant field a support fleet, guess what, you shouldn't be fielding a super carrier...
How was that related to my post... lol, anyway, I have no issues with that mate... :)
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dracice
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:10:00 -
[665]
keep posting guys, get these changes reversed or lessen impact.
so basically its a useless logistics ship and a useless dps ship.
cool!
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:15:00 -
[666]
Originally by: Taladool Ok lets be honest, THIS IS A FLEET SHIP, ITS NOT A WTFBBQSOLOPWNANDBURN SHIP, your self defense is your ability to absorb huge amounts of dmg while waiting on your fleet to offer support for you. You are not supposed to be able to solo a supper carrier, or any capital ship for that matter, thats why fleets have Capitals > BS > [hics/hac/logisctics] -- inside the box would be your anti support, and support ships, those are they guys that protect you from the big mean enemy fleets. If your corp and or alliance cant field a support fleet, guess what, you shouldn't be fielding a super carrier...
True. Supercarriers should require a coordinated effort to keep them safe. But imho, they should also require a coordinated effort to be taken down. Two HICs with cap injectors and one other ship providing some support (can range from an Itty 5 dropping cap boosters to a logistic ship) should put a supercarrier in trouble.
A single HIC accidentally stumbling upon a supercarrier should however not. This should lead to a race between the supercarrier killing the HIC and escaping and fast arriving backup for the HIC to expand the attack into a coordinated effort, where both sides have a realistic chance of success.
Additionally, the requirement for a fleet to support you should also provide a benefit for the fleet that is protecting you. Something worth the hassle. The newest supercarriers do not do that. A dread provides better DPS and the lack of mandatory support makes up for the less static HP.
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Natasha Coutah
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:16:00 -
[667]
I doube the Devs aka CCP will read this small post. I personally am not complaining about any of there changes however i am one of those who just completed there mothership prior to dominion based on the fact that the 1b isk saved that they said was not worth trying to build a 112b isk ship in a non immune system after the upgrade.
My issue is because they are further making it cheeper those of us who did spend the isk to buy the 3rd most expensive thing ingame OP-Titan-MoM and as easy as they can write there script for the system to check who has sov and to give them the sov modules they can problobly take this into concideration.
Write a script that says somthing along the lines of while doing maintance of your Supercarrier you found documents that a employee who built is was embessiling money from the project After turning these into Concord the accounts were siezed and you were rewarded 5b isk because thats all that was left in the Accounts after the assailent spent 3 years on a beach somewhere.
But somthing like that just like when you get a ship back form a petition they make somthing up somthing should happen to refund some up us who did actually build the things ourselves prior to you cutting the cost so much.
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Taladool
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:18:00 -
[668]
Edited by: Taladool on 13/11/2009 04:22:37 Edited by: Taladool on 13/11/2009 04:20:44
Originally by: Bulldug Im not a ms pilot but this is just epic fail at public relations. It's this kind of bad business conduct that are compromising honesty and integrity of CCP.
How is this bad PR, these are the test server forums. Its the test server, CCP says flat out that anything you see on SISI is subject to change, and not to take everything on sisi as fact. That's not bad PR, they told you before you logged on if you bothered to read the test server forums rules, that everything on sisi is subject to change.
Originally by: dracice keep posting guys, get these changes reversed or lessen impact.
so basically its a useless logistics ship and a useless dps ship.
cool!
How is it useless? Its a hell of a lot better then on TQ, unlike dreads you will survive a dooms day or 20 dreads for more then 15 seconds. EWar immunity, no siege for 1.7 dreads worth of dps to other capitals? Hardly useless.
Originally by: Mioelnir
True. Supercarriers should require a coordinated effort to keep them safe. But imho, they should also require a coordinated effort to be taken down. Two HICs with cap injectors and one other ship providing some support (can range from an Itty 5 dropping cap boosters to a logistic ship) should put a supercarrier in trouble.
A single HIC accidentally stumbling upon a supercarrier should however not. This should lead to a race between the supercarrier killing the HIC and escaping and fast arriving backup for the HIC to expand the attack into a coordinated effort, where both sides have a realistic chance of success.
Additionally, the requirement for a fleet to support you should also provide a benefit for the fleet that is protecting you. Something worth the hassle. The newest supercarriers do not do that. A dread provides better DPS and the lack of mandatory support makes up for the less static HP.
The issue I have with this, is you shouldn't be alone in a super carrier in the first place. there should never be an issue where you don't have fleet support for your ship.
And if somehow you manage to get caught with your pants down, you deserve to die.
and to the comment on dreads doing more dmg, sure but a supercarrier can tank quite a few DD's where as a dread can't, and because the supercarrier hull is only 6 bil or so, your getting it for the cost of 3 dreads, which imo isn't that big a deal to me.
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hom3gr0wn
Caldari Arkons of Myth Aequitas Infinitas
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:23:00 -
[669]
So.. What new game is everyone going to move on to? I hear Pong is doing great things these days..
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starliight
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:28:00 -
[670]
Never in all my years of gaming have i seen anything like this. Not only are the developers unwilling to comment on changes that obviously have ther player base up in arms they are actualy PROHIBITING us from voicing our opinions by locking every single thread that involves a request for a reversal of these changes, i know you will see this post ccp and when you do i hope you take a second to think about what you are doing here. Not only are you going to drive away subscribers by these horrific changes but you are going to drive away an equal ammount if not more of us by this blatent disrepect for our opinions and your unwilingness to accept any feed back other than your drastically skewed point of view. All i can hope is that at some point in the hundreads of posts that are flying arround right now you realize you may have made the wrong decision, or even fess up to what you have done and give your player base a resonable explanation. their has to be some logic behin what you are doing(ill be damned if i know what it is) so tell us let us know what you are planning so all the emorage and misguided frustration can be put to rest and we can get down to some real answeres and fixes for this problem.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:40:00 -
[671]
Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 13/11/2009 04:42:20
Originally by: Taladool
Did you miss the large announcement where CCP banned over 6000 RMT 23/7 accounts in one go? I am all for stating your opinion's about how this change effects you, but at least back your facts up with solid evidence.
That's quite a stupid comment. I said that the number is stagnating for more than half a year now, which you can see on the graph. It's a constant decline over a long period, even when you blind out the 6000k accounts in one go, you have a stagnation at best. Also it was not fact or evidence for the change (which is quite a ******ed assumption, since the "change" happened this week, not half a year ago) but a description of the current state of game, in which that change takes place.
Quote:
Super Carrier has 2x the dmg then before, check
This proves that you obviously have no clue what you are talking about, since the precision (quality) of DPS is completely different, unless you are fighting super-caps or stationary objects (which will be the case in less than 10% of the average fights). Not going to waste my time on the rest of your post.
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:46:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Spetey II who is gonna reimburse all the isk the mom pilots will loose to this ****?
its kinda ******* up that the ship will be that freaking cheap in 1 day.. ^^
Nobody as you gamble with some TESTSERVER data which are allways developed as "nothink is fix and all might be changed till release". You bet and lost for this game-round ;).
Same might happen to all moonmin-gambler.
If sig radius of f/b is to big for caps ... take TargetPainter with you
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Taladool
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:48:00 -
[673]
Edited by: Taladool on 13/11/2009 04:51:22
Originally by: starliight Never in all my years of gaming have i seen anything like this. Not only are the developers unwilling to comment on changes that obviously have ther player base up in arms they are actualy PROHIBITING us from voicing our opinions by locking every single thread that involves a request for a reversal of these changes, I know you will see this post ccp and when you do i hope you take a second to think about what you are doing here.
Not only are you going to drive away subscribers by these horrific changes but you are going to drive away an equal amount if not more of us by this blatant disrespect for our opinions and your unwillingness to accept any feed back other than your drastically skewed point of view.
All i can hope is that at some point in the hundreds of posts that are flying around right now you realize you may have made the wrong decision, or even fess up to what you have done and give your player base a reasonable explanation.
Their has to be some logic behind what you are doing(ill be damned if i know what it is) so tell us let us know what you are planning so all the emorage and misguided frustration can be put to rest and we can get down to some real answers and fixes for this problem.
The other posts are locked because they are counter productive, there is no reason to post anywhere but in this thread.
They do have logic behind the reasons for this, they believe it was to overpowered. Regardless of how ccp feels about it, the players showed the disrespect long before CCP stopped replying, right after the change was announced in this thread as intentional, people started to bad mouth, and demand the messenger be fired for this change. TBH with the supposed age range in this game, a lot of adults are acting like kids and emoraging like little brats who didn't get there candy before they ate dinner, tbh I spank my kids for this, If I was ccp, I would be handing out temp bans on the forms
Read the posts following these and tell me how you would reply
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1212602&page=5#140
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1212602&page=8#232
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1212602&page=9#246
And for the love of god fix your wall-o-text
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 13/11/2009 04:42:20
Originally by: Taladool
did you miss...
That's quite a stupid comment. I said that the number is stagnating for more than half a year now, which you can see on the graph. It's a constant decline over a long period, even when you blind out the 6000k accounts in one go, you have a stagnation at best. Also it was not fact or evidence for the change (which is quite a ******ed assumption, since the "change" happened this week, not half a year ago) but a description of the current state of game, in which that change takes place.
OK, Ill admit my mistake there, my bad. Taladool
Quote:
Super Carrier has 2x the dmg then before, check
This proves that you obviously have no clue what you are talking about, since the precision (quality) of DPS is completely different, unless you are fighting super-caps or stationary objects (which will be the case in less than 10% of the average fights). Not going to waste my time on the rest of your post.
On this point they are called target painters, I'm sorry your supercarrier has to have a support fleet.
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Taladool
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:54:00 -
[674]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Spetey II who is gonna reimburse all the isk the mom pilots will loose to this ****?
its kinda ******* up that the ship will be that freaking cheap in 1 day.. ^^
Nobody as you gamble with some TESTSERVER data which are allways developed as "nothink is fix and all might be changed till release". You bet and lost for this game-round ;).
Same might happen to all moonmin-gambler.
If sig radius of f/b is to big for caps ... take TargetPainter with you
Target Painter for the win !!
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.13 04:58:00 -
[675]
"This results in a tremendous increase in damage, as well as a greatly increased rate of defensive self-sustenance. Due to the ionic field created by the siege module, remote effects like warp scrambling et al. will not affect the ship while in siege mode."
Just thought I'd remind you that E-war modules don't work on sieged dreads. Which is where the fighter bombers would be most useful (carriers spamming smartbombs and whatnot generally having a negative effect on the health of drones of all kinds). Target painting consequently does not constitute a solution to the problem.
Arca
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:07:00 -
[676]
LOL. The use TP argument is priceless. Anyone who believes a TP will be useful is clueless to capital combat. Your targets in a capital engagement are dreads, which siege. One of the by products of siege is EWar immunity which means no TP and S-Carriers will still not hit for full damage.
It certainly makes a ton of sense to make a anti capital ship whos weapon system can't hit even capitals for full damage.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:12:00 -
[677]
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk LOL. The use TP argument is priceless. Anyone who believes a TP will be useful is clueless to capital combat. Your targets in a capital engagement are dreads, which siege. One of the by products of siege is EWar immunity which means no TP and S-Carriers will still not hit for full damage.
It certainly makes a ton of sense to make a anti capital ship whos weapon system can't hit even capitals for full damage.
I have this amazing, amazing feeling Nozh can be counted as one of the people expecting SCs to have TP support. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Mataki Onimareu
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:12:00 -
[678]
Edited by: Mataki Onimareu on 13/11/2009 05:14:02 I hate to post on Test Server stuff, but this is garbage. CCP is not looking at the normal Fighter and Drone damage we are losing.
I say third the Fighter Bomber DPS, and give the +3 Drone bonus back. Problem solved.
I think CCP will fix this, atleast I hope. Remember the assigned Fighters nerf?
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:14:00 -
[679]
man wots with the people saying whining and ranting and emoraging will get you nowhere, but it clearly has before so I don't get where they're coming from :P
Actually I saw a quote once, don't remember from where but it said something like humans were on top of the food chain cause we whine the best :P
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waferzankko
The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:16:00 -
[680]
oh my 17b e***** is now only a 7b e***** :C
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SamtheDog
EVIL ALTS Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:21:00 -
[681]
Incredibly dissapointing. Though I can say I pay with my 4 accounts through PLEX cards and keep my CC off my accounts now. I used to pay be the year for eve, but lately it's come to the point that the game wasn't worth paying cash for. Game money is good enough. There are very few things I'd be happy to pay for on the net, EVE was one for awhile, but now it's come to this and PLEX is your friend. No biggie on my part, but rather greatly disapointing that their dev team has lost touch with reality as the SWG game by SONY was ruined.
We can only wait and see and hope that with the self-destruction of ships (I own 2 MS's currently) being shown on the stats, if you get more isk self-destructing, then do it and adapt. CCP won't change, the devs may not care and what started as a great idea gets taken over by bureaucracy and as the inevitable conclusion with too many people, things go downhill as they try to appease to the lowest common denominator.
The history of other MMO's are testament to this fact, and EVE though it can learn from the past, will not.
Sam "Never underestimate greed or stupidity...you can always see it emerge in the end" |
PCaBoo
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:23:00 -
[682]
It's a sad trend. Game developers are focusing solely on console gaming, so they can make the big money. Sure they'll release some stuff for pc gamers, but they're all half-assed, unfinished garbage. Such as L4D, COD:MW2, OFP2, and soon to be, Eve-O.
Oh well.
________________________________ Stop nerfing everything! |
SteelHelix
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:24:00 -
[683]
Alright I am seeing a lot comparisons using the MS as a single ship vs another single ship and what I'm not seeing is a situation in which say there are 2-3 MS w/10-15 carriers/dreads and 40-60 support ships going up against say a gang with a single Titan, 10 Carriers/dread, and 60-80 support ships. If you don't agree with numbers for the gangs then change them and post up your opinion but saying that a single MS will now have issues killing a single dread or carrier is pointless because I'm pretty sure that single dread/carrier will NOT kill or even scratch the MS until it calls in it's gang mates and that MS pilot better be doing the same thing.
Personally I think in the above mentioned gang setting it would be a very close run thing and it would depend on how the gangs met and who was called primary and when.
I don't like the fact that the MS can't launch 20 drones/fighters anymore and I'd like to see the game updated so that it can continue to launch them but maybe because of bandwidth only be able to launch 10 FB's unless DCU's are fitted. But, other then that I think the DPS change was a good idea as a MS with 20 FB's will destroy a dread so I can only imagine what would happen if an Alliance dropped just 5 of them with carrier support for reps on a dread fleet killing a structure such as the new Sov stuff, and thats even if the Dreads have a BS support fleet because I'm pretty sure fighters still love to eat BS's for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Anyways those are my thoughts on this and people who are just *****ing but not offering solutions to fix it are useless. So please be constructive with your criticism and actually talk about how and why something should be changed not just its crap and that CCP should do something else nothing defining
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:26:00 -
[684]
Originally by: Mataki Onimareu Edited by: Mataki Onimareu on 13/11/2009 05:14:02 I hate to post on Test Server stuff, but this is garbage. CCP is not looking at the normal Fighter and Drone damage we are losing.
I say third the Fighter Bomber DPS, and give the +3 Drone bonus back. Problem solved.
I think CCP will fix this, atleast I hope. Remember the assigned Fighters nerf?
didn't no you could tp caps when sieged cause they're immune to e-war :S not sure on this at all, can they or can't they? And either way seriously something the size of a fighter bomber would have trouble hitting a stationary CAPITAL ship? for real :P? I mean I know it's a game and everything and **** doesn't have to make sense but hahahaha
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:33:00 -
[685]
i think the louder the whinage the more balanced ccp usually has it, and yes support ships are now more important. So all in all a good change ccp Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Warrio
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:35:00 -
[686]
This sure is a big thread about a test server. I'm guessing you're all really nervous about the 21st of December 2012 as well? - |
Zarlis
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:37:00 -
[687]
Not a cap pilot so cant comment on the details but this is a pretty **** way to deal with your long term players. I guess your hoping this thread runs out off steam because there is only 400 or so mothership pilots in the game. Well you deserve a 100 pages like you got for that sov blog as well a well as a bunch of negative articles on the like of massively.com
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:42:00 -
[688]
Originally by: HeliosGal i think the louder the whinage the more balanced ccp usually has it, and yes support ships are now more important. So all in all a good change ccp
LOL. Yes nerf nullsec PvP and boost highsec missions. This makes perfect sense.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:48:00 -
[689]
Originally by: HeliosGal i think the louder the whinage the more balanced
However much I don't want to invoke the SWG NGE (it seems to me to be akin to Godwin's Law if you mention it ...) - that philosophy worked out well for Sony, right?
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mishkof
Caldari Hmmzor.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:08:00 -
[690]
Cost decrease - Will be better in the long run. Also, MS are PVP endgame content. When purchasing you take a big risk with regards to nerfing. Same thing for all end game content, for example T2 BPO's, anyone who has ever bought one knows that a possible nerf always goas through their mind. It still doas suck hard though for anyone who literally just bought one.
Less fighters - Good for lag I guess?
HP boost - Very good.
Total Dmg - Meh, with the cost decrease it would be a little silly if they got a monster HP boost, plus a monster Dmg boost. 25 Bombers as opposed to its current maximum DPS package of 25 fighters is a masive dmg boost.
In the end I think this thread is mostly full of ragers who tried to get the next I-Win button. You should have waited until after the patch to buy....anything for that matter, What you did was "speculation" as far as I am concerned. You dont buy on TQ simply based upon what is available on the test server and not consider it speculation, and if you are crying because you got burned on speculation then you are simply a whiner.
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Rezaa
Pandemonium Technologies
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:09:00 -
[691]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
In this you are quite wrong. This "comunity" dictates the viability of the game as a whole. And with out a viable comunity to support CCP you will be left with making your "decisions" for an empty house. So under the assumption you want the game to remain viable you WILL IN FACT tailor the game to keep people happy.
Does this decision efect the population en mass?? No of course not. There's not many people flying super caps compaired to non cap players.
However that does not justify that statment!!
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Taladool
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:13:00 -
[692]
Originally by: SteelHelix Alright I am seeing a lot comparisons using the MS as a single ship vs another single ship and what I'm not seeing is a situation in which say there are 2-3 MS w/10-15 carriers/dreads and 40-60 support ships going up against say a gang with a single Titan, 10 Carriers/dread, and 60-80 support ships. If you don't agree with numbers for the gangs then change them and post up your opinion but saying that a single MS will now have issues killing a single dread or carrier is pointless because I'm pretty sure that single dread/carrier will NOT kill or even scratch the MS until it calls in it's gang mates and that MS pilot better be doing the same thing.
Personally I think in the above mentioned gang setting it would be a very close run thing and it would depend on how the gangs met and who was called primary and when.
I don't like the fact that the MS can't launch 20 drones/fighters anymore and I'd like to see the game updated so that it can continue to launch them but maybe because of bandwidth only be able to launch 10 FB's unless DCU's are fitted. But, other then that I think the DPS change was a good idea as a MS with 20 FB's will destroy a dread so I can only imagine what would happen if an Alliance dropped just 5 of them with carrier support for reps on a dread fleet killing a structure such as the new Sov stuff, and thats even if the Dreads have a BS support fleet because I'm pretty sure fighters still love to eat BS's for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Anyways those are my thoughts on this and people who are just *****ing but not offering solutions to fix it are useless. So please be constructive with your criticism and actually talk about how and why something should be changed not just its crap and that CCP should do something else nothing defining
This to be honest, people need to stop *****ing and start being constructive in there posting.
Past that, I will say, I did not consider the fact that TP's dont work on dreads in siege. However again it is very important that you post, constructive posts, that make sense and argue your case, this is the only way to get CCP to fix your ships the way the majority wants them.
Another thing to consider is this is a fleet ship its one of many ships in a fleet, and requires support.
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glassmanipulator
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:16:00 -
[693]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
-Nozh
How can you do this ??? Don't you realize how much ISK and effort people have put into getting these ships ??? Way to slap your long standing customers in the face. I am disgusted at you Nozh, and ccp for letting this get so fubared..
God forbid you have to make 4 new models and actually introduce a new class of ship. So lazy and worthless.
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Liam Fremen
Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:23:00 -
[694]
I have no words :)
Super Carriers were pretty nice while they were Carriers with uber fighters, lot of dmg, lot of effective hp, cost 15x of a carrier.
Now we have something that cost 7x a carrier, without a real advantage of having it in the field, a dread make a better job, no-one care of shooting moving targets while the main objective in a cap fight is to remove as many enemy dreads as possible.
If ccp want a ship that cost 7 billions and make a better work then a carrier, just make a new class of ship and make the actual motherships that cost 17b something that worth the price.
-- Systematic-Chaos, Executor |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:24:00 -
[695]
Originally by: SXYGeeK
Originally by: Tippia Damage vs. Thanatos at no speed = ~3050 (so 6099 max DPS w/ Nozh's mystery fit, 7600 from Nyx) Damage vs. Thanatos at full speed = ~1350 (so 2700 / 3375 DPS).
Damage vs. Moros at no speed = ~1800 (3600 / 4500 DPS). Damage vs. Moros at full speed = ~800 (1600 / 2000 DPS).
do your calculations factor in the "damage reduction factor" ? it is the magic number after all.
Yes. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Anile8er
Solstice Systems Development Concourse Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:26:00 -
[696]
Edited by: Anile8er on 13/11/2009 06:28:43 This change is bull$hit. If these are gonna be the changes, CCP should grant the ship the ability to dock and should comp owners either with ISK or by placing the building materials that wouldn't be used any longer but have already been used in their current ship in a station of their choice...
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Miss Steely
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:36:00 -
[697]
IS ANY OF THIS GETTING THRU TO YOU CCP ??
TIME FOR SOME DAMAGE CONTROL
ps. i really wonder what wud have happened if these chages were releases before/at the fanfest
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Warrio
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 06:40:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Rezaa
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
In this you are quite wrong. This "comunity" dictates the viability of the game as a whole. And with out a viable comunity to support CCP you will be left with making your "decisions" for an empty house. So under the assumption you want the game to remain viable you WILL IN FACT tailor the game to keep people happy.
Does this decision efect the population en mass?? No of course not. There's not many people flying super caps compaired to non cap players.
However that does not justify that statment!!
You massive ******. He said Community (capital C) meaning the team that works with the community i.e. forum mods. Admittedly he would have been less ambiguous if he had said "Forum moderators do not make design decisions" alas, he didn't.
Stop trying to find something to get offended by. - |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 07:01:00 -
[699]
Looking forward to my cheap MOM here :)
Thanks CCP for bringing capitals to the masses.
Three cheers for CCP
HIP HIP
SKUNK (o)
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Silver Tongues
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Posted - 2009.11.13 07:11:00 -
[700]
Ahh, this is fun. I get to see people complain about a buff, because the buff isn't big enough for them.
Hmm...Maybe I'm missing something. Do Super Carriers still get to use regular drones? What about Fighters? If the answer is yes to those 2 questions, then I have no clue why people are complaining.
But this is the EVE Forum, I should come to expect people crying. At least be glad you're not getting "buffed" by having everything else in the game nerfed!
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 07:20:00 -
[701]
Originally by: Silver Tongues Ahh, this is fun. I get to see people complain about a buff, because the buff isn't big enough for them.
Hmm...Maybe I'm missing something. Do Super Carriers still get to use regular drones? What about Fighters? If the answer is yes to those 2 questions, then I have no clue why people are complaining.
But this is the EVE Forum, I should come to expect people crying. At least be glad you're not getting "buffed" by having everything else in the game nerfed!
only being able to launch 10 drones... of whatever size they are is a nerf sweetheart. go figure.
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Dusteater
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2009.11.13 07:34:00 -
[702]
..so let's make a summary.
2007, Players: RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE mom is weak /emo 2008, Players: RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE mom is weak /emo 2009, Players: RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE mom /emo, CCP: we'll fix it!
Fastforward to autumn: * Blog comes out about intentions (gives moms reasons to be on the battlefield, new capital-killing intended role, removing some logistic tools to reflect this). Fighterbombers promised as a new combat utility (and in this blog, the "new bays" are mentioned as well, to reflect how it can be used as tool to control drones). * Extensive testing goes on SiSi. HP boost, FB introduction, Triage removed, Vat Bay removed, Warfare bonus gone. FB's in this state has a hard time killing a regular BS orbitting at a non-propulsion mod speed, it's clear they're great against capitals tho. - All in all, both survivability, and damage bonuses, at the cost of logistic tools.
Fastforward to winter, few weeks before expansion release: * FB's are now made weak even against stationary capitals, in addition to the weaknesses they share with regular Fighters (lag issues, smartbomb vulnerable, etc). In this state a regular sniping dread does around same damage vs an average capital, as a xMom. A higher dps dread will outperform the xMom in its new role (!). * xMom's loses alot of both selfdefence, as well as utility, and damage, by reduced amount of total drones fielded. * Extremely cheap production. * To compensate for this, DCU changes are promised (but even if they are made five times as good as on TQ, it's still too weak, especially in conjunction with the now useless FB's). - All in all, for everyone that won't field whole fleets of xMoms, they're alot weaker. Worse self-defence, worse damage, worse logistic tools, overall drop in utility, only gain is the extra buffer.
If we ignore the fact that xMom's just dropped to about half value, if we ignore the fact that they'll be spammed and bloating the big capital fights (and subsequently make 0.0 harder for smaller entities, as well as xMom-fleets countering the reason to the removal of AoE-DD). If we ignore that they still have their old weaknesses (extremely easy to tackle for few dictors, e-war immunity doesn't help vs neuts, can't dock, etc)..
..we'll end up with a ship that after years of hopeful boosts, end up in a state that actually makes them worse then the recent years. The irony is, that the 'new strength' of the xMom is the big-blob-RR role. I.e. a logistic, rather then the intented and promised capital killing one.
So basicly, we're giving up damage and utility, for extra health, cheaper hull and the introduction of a drone that in most essence won't be favoured over Fighters, except very specific occations? Congrats CCP, you've just made the Carrier 2.0!
I ignored the isk-loss- (for BPO holders, and previous buyers/builders) argument, for the sake of speculation/risk taking etc.. but those people won't be very happy either for obvious reasons.
If someone is in doubt why people emo about these potential changes, this summary should cover most of it.
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Zach Morter
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Posted - 2009.11.13 07:37:00 -
[703]
If you really do implement these changes CCP consider my 4 subscriptions canceled. With this new reduction in cost you just made me lose 12bil which is alot of isk. Thanks CCP for screwing over your most loyal customers again.
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Monti Reagan
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.11.13 07:49:00 -
[704]
CCP why don't you listen to the people who've been paying for and playing your game so long, remember, your loyal customers? Many of these same long-time loyal customers are the ones who fly supercapitals. This to me seems like such a gross affront and betrayal of existing and previous customers to favor new members it's absurd. If you truly intend on following through with this very unreasonable change, either allow motherships currently built to retain pre-patch stats or allow us to reprocess them as Mynas said so we can recover our lost isk.
This is shameful behavior.
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Blafam
Subspace Freelancers
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Posted - 2009.11.13 08:19:00 -
[705]
so my 20bn isk mom is now worth 6bn? Wow, thank you, you *****s. You *******s just cost me 14 billion.
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hankey
Minmatar The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.11.13 08:21:00 -
[706]
Well, it is time to put my 2c in this rage feedback.
Some people know me as supercapital (MS) builder from my service. I'm building motherships for more than a year and when 1st Dominion news hit my ears with the sounds of price change (remember 1st of all you cut prices by removing Clone Vat bay from blueprints) it was okay price change was about 10%, it was bearable. And i kept silence about it.
But now, you are going to change complete class of SUPER CARRIERS (remember, you given them this name with introduction of Fighter bombers) and you said that It'll be ship which can do much damage (there was 20 figher bombers in plan) and cost it's price. With the change of price Super Carrier class ships and cutting number of active fighter bombers (if thats true) You can simply wipe out that word "Super" from class name. It really looks like you want people be close to WoW or other MMORPG which don't have much effort loss after loss in battle.
Also with such change you don't even care about people who already owns such "super" carriers. Their ISK loss will be around 5-6b (so like you said just like build cost in future) I have to agree with Mittani's and Darknesss's posts: it's fraud. And since you probable don't want to seed so much ISK's into the game after patch as reimbursment to the pilots who own this ship (tbh it's very hard to determine who is owner for this ship when it's stored in CSMA) I've to suggest you together with such change double number of existing MS ingame (for those who is sitting in the ship, will get it seeded to the medical clone location station without fit, for those who store them in the CSMA will find there 2 ships instead of 1 (since they should lost some components in building, they gonna loose some volume too))
-- Keeper
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The Kan
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 08:38:00 -
[707]
CCP is not right you deleted my posts and other people's post.
We have the right to speak, we have the righ of speech and by deleted our posts entirly, we are denying us of that right.
Even if it is words you dont want to ear.
In short, i dont agree with this changes, i am 100% agaisnt them, the best best constructive feedback i can tell you right about now is that you must reverse this changes.
If you wont reverse them i will self destruct before dominion because i dont want to keep paying 2 more years for a account i simply dont use due to the ship been a piece of junk.
I prefer to collect the insurance while i can
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Alxea
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Posted - 2009.11.13 08:40:00 -
[708]
Stop nerfing the fing drone boats. Oh why do you hate drones so much ccp? I been there for the myrm and eos nerf, been there for the drone tracking nerf, the ishkur nerf, and now the super carrier nerf. WTF ccp? Do you not want people to use drone boats.
Whats the point of flying them if they keep on getting nerfed? I'm about to quit flying gallente because I'm sick of my primary weapon constently getting nerfed, a weapon system thats destroyable must need the hardest nerfs cus it must be overpowered when smart bombs can blow up your dps. WTF!?(TM)
Admit you hate drones ccp, how about you make all weapon systems targetable in the game? Or give drones a hp boost. Cus the constent nerf hate to the weakest dps weapon system in the game is just getting ******ed.
Carrier DPS 1750? with fighters, Super Carrier DPS 6000 DPS? with fighter bombers, Dreads 7000 DPS, Titans 10000 DPS with guns and 10000 DPS with DD total being 20000 DPS. What is wrong with this picture? WTF is up with that "shirt". Super carriers are sipose to be anti capital ships. 6000 DPS doesn't do crap to a dreads tank, dreads and carriers can tank over 10000 DPS average 15000 DPS and max about 20000 DPS. So how can a super carrier be "SUPER" or anti capital when it can't even do more dps then a dreads or carriers tank???
I don't get the huge nerf hate going around for the 2+ years I been in the game for drones. Drones are not that powerful. Mostly because they can't use damage mods. All gunboats and missile boats can out damage any drone boat dedicated to drones only.
A dedicated drone user DOES NOT use guns or have gun skills. Its silly that I can do 3 times the dps with guns that a drone boat can do dps wise. They don't need to be nerfed, they need a huge boost. To be in line with all other ships DPS. So whats the roll of a super carrier now? To tickle the enemy to death and die a epicly slow death?
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Nyx STeeLGamers
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.13 08:45:00 -
[709]
In a nutshell: please roll back this crazy nerf. I'm displeased to a threshold.
If you want to float another low cost capital ship in space and name it super carrier be my guest but for goodness's sake don't break the game for thousands of players who spent so many hours making 18 to 20 billion ISK to buy a mothership. Just because some whimsical development lead in your team decided the mothership class would become too powerful for it's cost you shouldn't fix the problem by reducing the cost by almost half and nerfing yhr freaking ship. Increase the cost instead. Let players pay the price they want to pay to fly a ship that's second to a Titan. If you want a super carrier, design a new bunch of ship. But please don't break the game for so many people. It's not fun for them. Please don't forget that this is at the end a game, a means of fun for people. If you treat it like anything less and make it less fun, you will hurt your own payhecks. Nothing in this world lasts forever. This game, EVE Online, too won't last forever. Please let the dedicated players who spent weeks to months collecting isk in excitement of the ubber motherships to not leave and hate their experience. You will be responsible for their frustration. You will have broken their games. And if you are bent on not changing your dev minds, then at the very least refund all mothership pilots with amounts of ISK equavalent to the price in billions you reduce on the ships. Otherwise you will have essentially thieved from all pre-Dominion mothership pilots. As such, I am heavily dissappointed in tour ability to value player sentiment. I like a fun game, not a frustrating development roller coaster of broken promises and petty sweet dreams of ubber ships that were never to be. This mothership boost that existed on SISI had been a cold joke. I would never play with this much hate for the devs and the game developer as I am building upon hearing of these changes. Adios.
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 08:50:00 -
[710]
Originally by: Alxea Titans 10000 DPS with guns and 10000 DPS with DD total being 20000 DPS.
Incorrect. At the same time that they nerfed xMoms, they also nerfed titans.
The DD was changed earlier from 5mins to 10 mins, giving it an average DPS of 5k. In this recent change, titans lost their 200% Per level damage bonus, and will now only do 100% per level. This brings them to roughly 5k DPS. This comparable to that of a dread. --
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LordMordred
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 08:52:00 -
[711]
Everything about this is ******ed and insane beyond belief
I'm going to disregard the market impact and focus just on the pilot issue
Reducing the build cost will send proliferation threw the roof. We'll be seeing fleets of these things roaming the skies. The part that sucks about that: They're supposed to expensive and unique ships. Not your run of the mill ship. You decreasing their "specialness" to a point that's almost ******ed. This wouldn't have been so bad at the old build cost because the commitment required to put on the field would still be very high in terms of isk. And their DPS was high enough that these things would literally be ripping each other asunder. Losses would be high and the price would be high. This = GOOD. Proliferation = Bad CCP, head out of arse please.
The DPS Nerf by itself makes them pointless. Expensive ship = Unique ship. These are the roaming beasts of the sky and their presence should be felt. The cost and training invested here CAN NOT be understated. There are many who were looking forward to flying them in combat for the first time. And those of us who have had one since they were actually usable on the battlefield that have waited YEARS with it wasting away on a character to see their special ship, the goal they worked to achieve to finally be worth something again. And CCP suited both parties with their first plan quite well. Hopes were high... people were drinking... smiles on faces. Then... some guy who must be flying a spreadsheet who has no idea how the game actually functions in reality and implication of tactics comes along and makes arbitrary and pointless changes that resign the ship to slightly better but still completely worthless?
Then there is the market and builder issues: I'll just sum it up rather than completely disregard. You have made a change with out any warning, just a shotgun from the hip ill-thought through change to the cost and value of the ship that everyone thought was just fine and going live. You may not see how WRONG and hurtful that is to do... but you dropped this like an atom bomb with out so much as a "Surrender or Face Complete Destruction" letter.
And on a personal note it pains me to say that I have for the first time ever seriously given consideration to yanking myself away from this game. Why? Because I thought it had become clear that I was wrong and that CCP do still understand their own game and aren't on a course to self destruction because they were keeping their ranks filled with experience players as the main driving points for their ideas. Well this has me doubting my lack of doubt. -----
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sdchew
Gallente Jazz Associates
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:02:00 -
[712]
CCP, a couple of points from a long time EVE Player who has 5 accounts.
Firstly, What was the point of having hundreds of us, waiting hours in the SIS Queue, to get onto SIS to test the Supercarriers and provide feedback; only to have you undo all the hours upon hours of testing by implementing this change?
Secondly, I thought CCP hired an economist to ensure that game design changes did not cause problems to the economy? I last recalled it posted somewhere that there was about 400+ MOMs in TQ now. With this one change (15 bil build cost -> 6 bil), you have effectively eliminated over 4 Trillion ISK from the economy. I also recall that over daily trade with a ISK value of just over 1 Trillion occurs each day on the market. Congrates, you just destroyed 10 years of economic work.
Third, at 5-6 bil per super carrier, it is dirt cheap for most alliances. 1 Titan cost about 50-60 bil and most large alliances field 2-3 Titans in a medium size engagement. Put 10-20 Supercarriers in a spider tank gang and it will be virtually impossible to put down due to EW immunity and high EHP (huge buffer tank, perfect for remote rep gangs). No need for any DCU either. 100-200 Sentries/Fighters/Fighter Drones with WTFP0WNBBQ anything. I strongly suspect EW immunity will be next on the nerf bat's target list once people start screaming that spidertanking supercarriers gang are immpossible to kill.
Next, supercapitals (Titans/Moms) have been a major investment in time and ISK for the majority of its current owners. For peeps like myself, who have been in game for 6+ years, we seen it all but this is absolutely the worst thought out idea ever. You are hurting the people who have stuck out with you. If you value the opinion of the guys who been with you since the beginning, listen up!
In addition, I can only imagine the riot which would have occurred if you had announced it at Fanfest a few weeks ago.
Lastly, for the guys who bought PLEXes/GTC for RL Cash so that you could sell them for ISKies and raise the funds to buy your MOM/SC;Well, you should have spent the money on hookers. At least it was clear who was doing the screwing and who is getting screwed.
PS: If this goes thru, I want an option to reprocess my Mom.
The day that EVE is truly bug-free, the EVE Gate will probably go super nova and kill us all. |
Orny
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:07:00 -
[713]
I take ALL of yr stafff, plz contract to me!
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Dani Leone
Gallente How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:14:00 -
[714]
Originally by: Orny I take ALL of yr stafff, plz contract to me!
I think you're missing the part where they can't dock so can't contract their MS to anyone ;P
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Ghengis Khan
Minmatar tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:20:00 -
[715]
23 pages already, with the deleted posts we maybe had 30.
I still cannot believe why you screw the hard work on devs who actually play the game. Yet, you terminate their achievements and come up with such a terrible plan, 2 weeks before a major patch comes out by someone announced who clearly has no clue of how the game works.
I hope you ask yourself why all these ppl are rabbling - not because you did something awesome that everyone is excited about, no you ****ed up the community once more with ninja nerfs that turn out to be 180¦ change from what we expected.
GOOD JOB, GDIABigF...inF
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Business Bunny
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:22:00 -
[716]
I like these changes I can now consider getting a mom.
Also for all people that are going to rage quit.
CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF?
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Zeoliter
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:26:00 -
[717]
I'll just remove the pimp fitting and leeroy my Wyvern first opportunity after Dominion hits. Then I'll merge this char into another account, stop training on it and cancel that account.
Losing money is the only way to get through to CCP it seems.
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Jeremey
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:34:00 -
[718]
I have warned you people and you didn't listen. Now suffer.
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SamtheDog
EVIL ALTS Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:35:00 -
[719]
Originally by: Zeoliter I'll just remove the pimp fitting and leeroy my Wyvern first opportunity after Dominion hits. Then I'll merge this char into another account, stop training on it and cancel that account.
Losing money is the only way to get through to CCP it seems.
I guess CCP's CEO 'dream' of 600k accounts just got torpedoed by one of his GM's...brilliant
Sam "Never underestimate greed or stupidity...you can always see it emerge in the end" |
Nyx Spire
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:43:00 -
[720]
In reading all these threads & holy crap its hard to keep up
A light bulb dinged in my grey matter
How about you split every single mother ship BPO into two everyone that holds a mother ship bpo or BPC spawns a a T2 carrier bpo or bpc right next to it.
the T2 carriers is like a normal carrier except geared towards damage & not so much logistics'. break the mold a bit here make the build costs mostly t1 cap build costs of a normal carrier up them a bit to be inline with this supposed SC changes. then add some T2 mat requirements just a hand full say the cost of t2 requirements it takes to make a t2 BS.
So you now have a t2 carrier adjust the texture mess with the high slots let this t2 carrier use fighter bombers and basically keep the stat's your proposing for the MoM/SC. give it immunity to EWAR without needing siege or triage. Make it dockable... Except give these ships a 15 minute docking timer were they can still take damage. consider it the time it takes for a tug boat to drag your huge HULL into the dry dock. heck make the t2 carriers slightly faster on the flat so to negate some damage.
Now take the MoM/SC and kit it out I mean pimp it hard. torps shouldn't be hitting other torps and killing them in turn nurfin the damage. you add a new weapon to the game but seriously haven't given the numbers play time, not to mention signature and explosion velocity issues. only hard adjusting the new numbers is going to make these viable. so run the mom up another couple of percent damage wise on FB's leave it with its 25 drone control. but adjust the FB bandwidth. kit the MOM out up. remote ecm to a jam. its reactivation timer is enough to bore it owner to death before getting off a second shot. maybe even give the mom full 8 high slots and allow it to have two launcher hard points across each faction. so player can choose a touch more dps, a DCU or nut. settle the cost roughly around were it was yeah drop the cost a bit due to lack of clone and triage. Make MoM dockable but with a 20 minute waiting period for tug boat.
So now you have a solidly happy player base if you must give everyone thats got a MoM this new T2 carrier without fittings in their clone station. now watch and see what happens you keep your dev's happy. you keep ccp happy. you keep your players happy
T2 carriers 15% fighter/FB damage per lvl 5% resistances per lvl 2% velocity per lvl 1 extra fighter per lvl 200% drone control range 15 minute dock timer immune to EWAR
Said race faction and ancestry have decided to shell out the inside of the logistic forward base carrier in line with SC to maximise its potential damage out put. dropping the logistical command centre like fittings and construction to make a mobile skirmisher with fighter like bombers. a massive portion of the carrier was striped of triage hard points to make way for additional bomber refitting. the massive drop in weight and excessive room has allowed engineers ways to maximise the polymers in the ships construction for better resistance this drop in weight along with the lack of command bulking has allowed mechanic's new ways of tweaking the astronautics of these behemoths making them faster in their top end. which has also resulted in the ships immunity to EWAR as the sensors and vulnerable ships computers can now be shielded from such forms of attack and stream lined.
MOM/SC 60% bonus Fighter/FB d per lvl 99% reduct remote ECM 3 drones per lvl 200% drone control range Immune EWAR interdiction null 20min dock timer
creo drone came up with it first but others soon followed. striping the guts of a MoM to make way for FB combined with sleeper tech to breech enemy lines. taking these mobile bases and turning them into flag ships to be feared dropping the logistic and command mods for more fire power and a bigger drone bay these ships are now formed a new class of their own "The super carrier" skipping through enemy lines to hit fast on structures & other caps. They only fear HIC's & TITANS.
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Guterro d'Tefiane
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:44:00 -
[721]
"Perhaps no ships in EVE symbolize the majesty of the game more than the Nyx, Wyvern, Aeon and Hel."
"One side effect of this change is that the build cost for Supercarriers will go down slightly as they will no longer require the Capital Clone Vat Bay components."
"In addition to receiving their own hit point boost, Supercarriers are going to get new teeth in the form of the deadly new Fighter Bombers they can launch. Fighter Bombers have exactly one purpose: to destroy capital ships and look very cool while doing so."
"We are still looking at a few other ideas that will help Supercarriers do their jobs more effectively and you may see those popping up on SiSi in the coming weeks."
Straight from the dev blog two months ago. Exactly how many of these things were delivered? I guess the HP boost hasn't been removed yet. How do you expect players to not be upset over this. The nerfs suck, but the way you did it is far worse.
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Vidtorin
Caldari Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:49:00 -
[722]
When CCP released the patch notes about changing the mom to a super carrier, at first i wasn't too happy, but then i read on and actually started to tingle inside. Fighter bombers. These awesome little things that can kill caps quick. I got so excited, I even thought about using my Nyx again. As i read on and on, it became more interesting. With titans and their new toy, SC got a hp buff. Even better. These two aspects alone, the fighter bombers, which only SC could use and the hp buff, meant me and a lot of other SC pilots might actually consider putting their SC on the field again.
Right Now, why should we bother? All they are going is a big pile of hp that can't do anything apart from look nice (unless it's the wyvern :P)
Limiting one of the special things that makes a SC unique, the use of 20 drones, i just think is actually one of the most stupidest things i've ever heard. You got me all excited CCP for using my mommy again, now it just may as well gather dust.
Get it back to 20 CCP other wise you will find people screaming titans are too over powerful, nothing can kill that. ohh wait, isn't that what we were going to use the SC for? Titan kill dread, mom kill titan, dread kill carrier etc etc. YOu really messed this one up.
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:54:00 -
[723]
Second on I can haz stuffz?
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Enigma Crysis
PsyTech Ltd
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:58:00 -
[724]
@forumpolitics: As a non-capital-pilot i must agree its not very kind of ccp to ignore the critics even if they are ragecritics... or locking threads because of /signed "spam". Lol?! What shall they do? Should they all post the same over and over again like the topicstarter? Oh wait: they are already posting their opinions here.
Seriously. Ppl are telling you what they think.. they are in rage and you just ignore him ... tons of sites with emo-posts with no word of ccp but "give constructive feedback". Actually i cant really find any dev who was able to counter ppl posts with constructive feedback yet which leads me to this. They dont read it.
@coming changes: SC will have a role but at what costs? There will be lots of SCblobs done in the near future by the big allies who can easily efford tons of them instead of using dreads to counter-blob. With the big hp boost it will be a mess. With EW-imunity without triage/siege they are even better than dreads anyway.. why should they use dreads again? Shooting Pos? Oh wait, there is also a change with the explosion radius... Didnt ccp actually want to stop blobbing? This is imho a blob-boost.
Ships getting nerfed and get cheaper. Ok. But around 40%? Well i dont care when its a 1billion isk ship.. but a MOM? This is more than a slap into the face. Im glad i dont have one. Sry to say but looks like in the end ccp will do it anyway. Only listening to ccpfanboys.
"There are no critics."
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Douglas Pearce
Music Martinis and Misanthropy
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:11:00 -
[725]
Edited by: Douglas Pearce on 13/11/2009 10:12:08 Not a supercap pilot, and not particularly interested in locking one of my alts in one either. Also, the nerd tears in this thread are hillarious. OMGGGG YOU KILLED MY MODERSHIPPP, OMG I'M CLOSING ALL MY ACCOUNTS!! You weren't flying Your e-peen pile of **** before anyway.
I do have to say though that the way this went through looks terrible. And I think the process goes like this :
CCP can't think of a way to make a meaningful ship out of it, so they give what the crowd wants. Looaaads and loooads of dps.
Crowd is nearly instapopping other capitals and is thrilled. Both ccp and crowed are very ****ed up.
CCP realises what they have done, probably checks out on how many MSs are being built around 0.0 , and freaks out.
So they do the worst thing they could do. Not sure if the nerf is bad*, though reducing an existing ship's value to the 1/3rd of its price, that people have grinded money, bought GTCs, worked their ass off to build just before these changes, that is not fun. If they wanted MSs to be another class, then wth man, either make new ships for supercarriers, taking another class and changing the name to an awful one was an unbelievably stupid idea anyway, and then apply your changes to the old mothership, or make a way for people to get refunded for whatever is that the reduced price will be, so even if someone doesn't like it anymore, he has a means to get his money back and invest it into something else.
* it may feel AWEEEESOSOOEMEMEMEMEM being able to solo two carriers or dreads in less than a minute, however, its also seriously ****ed up. You realise that with the old specs we would eventually be having 50 man SC fleets with an army of fighter bombers instapopping anything on grid. Carriers and dreads would probably turn to be the non-viable case of the past. But no, you didn't criticize them on that, they gave you your kewl tons of dps and you were "uuu yea baby", instead of demanding of them and titans to become what they should be and what their role is in any sci-fi setup.
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Cuisinar
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:14:00 -
[726]
any answer from ccp yet? or is this zulupark all over again? silenceeeeeeeeeee
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Sofia Swift
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:17:00 -
[727]
Originally by: sdchew
CCP, a couple of points from a long time EVE Player who has 5 accounts.
Firstly, What was the point of having hundreds of us, waiting hours in the SIS Queue, to get onto SIS to test the Supercarriers and provide feedback; only to have you undo all the hours upon hours of testing by implementing this change?
Secondly, I thought CCP hired an economist to ensure that game design changes did not cause problems to the economy? I last recalled it posted somewhere that there was about 400+ MOMs in TQ now. With this one change (15 bil build cost -> 6 bil), you have effectively eliminated over 4 Trillion ISK from the economy. I also recall that daily trade with a ISK value of just over 1 Trillion occurs each day on the market. Congrates, you just destroyed 10 years of economic work.
Ask CCP Nozh... he's the one that keeps screwing this game up I think.. Can one person really have so much control ??
What this DEV and CCP is doing/let happen is so ridiculous it makes me wanna throw up into my own face. I think someone higher up should be able to influence this.. Maybe the man himself..
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:21:00 -
[728]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Before you all start getting on Stevie's back over her post let me just clarify that you are well within your rights to use this thread to post constructive feedback. Posting flaming or trolling comments is not in keeping with the forum rules and any such posts may result in a warning or ban.
No one is saying not to express your opinion or provide feedback, but please do it within the rules of this forum. Please also note that the Community team do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Thank you.
well can you go get the **** that put this together and get him to explane wtf was going through his brain cell
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Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:26:00 -
[729]
Edited by: Lynn de''Marco on 13/11/2009 10:27:27 I wonder how long until there is "****** finds out about the supercarrier nerf" parodys on youtube.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:39:00 -
[730]
As for the speculation on anything related to Dominion, you all knew from the start nothing is set in stone. They say so on SiSi constantly, just about any of the blogs or any info we get is explained that its all in flux. For anybody who took up the rush to buy them pre-Dominion, you got burned speculating, you have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself. You are capital pilots right, you should have been around for more than a few expansions and all the last minute changes that go into them.
If I bought a Cerberus/Hulk early 2007, I would have paid A LOT more for it than its worth now. The game is constantly changing and you should all know better that if you buy it, its not a static good that will always be worth X. You paid for it when you did, when it was worth what it was. Nobody forced you to buy one.
They are not DPS ships, they really never should be. The days of solo camping the Tama gate in Nyx are long gone, and good riddance to that. Even if CCP plans to have them fill an anti-capital role, the only ship you could possibly damage would be Sieged Dreads due to the other capitals fitting smart bombs. Its best just to disregard it and enjoy the expanded capabilities of the Super Carrier.
At the price point of 5-6 billion ISK, they make a fantastic upgrade from a normal Carrier. More slots/HP/CAP and the added bonus of being EWAR immune. If anybody who is crying now realizes that they are in fact.. CARRIERS will realize that double the amount of drones is worth nowhere near 10 billion ISK.
TL:DR
The reduced costs makes it worth them to field them solely as better versions of Carriers. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
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kapten sortebil
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:42:00 -
[731]
UNdo this crap now.
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w0rmy
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:42:00 -
[732]
Hey look on the bright side...
Atleast they have allowed us to keep our boot.ini this time
Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
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Uzume Ame
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:42:00 -
[733]
An other terrible change brought to you by sisipi.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:49:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 13/11/2009 10:27:27 Why xMom changes are horribad for non-capital pilots
A corpmate asked this simple question "You say the reduced build cost will result in swarms of these ships; why would that happen if they are useless?"
I'd like to answer that.
A single xMom is no better than a dreadnought for capital killing, and arguably worse than a carrier for remote repping. The result is that deploying a single xMom or even a pair, in a group of capitals only results in it being a big. juicy target. This is currently the case with motherships and a big reason for why we don't see motherships deployed in combat.
The originally proposed changes were to fix this. A HP boost would give them enough buffer to survive long enough, and a huge boost in DPS would ensure that they'd be the best ship around to kill capitals. The high pricepoint would still ensure that these ships were the exclusive domain of players who'd spent a lot of time not only training for the skills but also to grind the ISK to purchase or build one.
With the latest iteration, xMoms will no longer be the best ships for anti-capital work. This role still remains with dreads. We're again back to where motherships were before, albeit with arguably more DPS (previous posts have indicated that xMoms will in fact NOT gain more DPS, in fact they may inflict LESS dps than their current forms against normal capitals).
So, why is this worse than before?
The pricereduction.
Even if we disregard the fact that CCP effectively insults everyone who's ever grinded the ISK to buy or build a mothership in the past, many players who have dedicated years worth of playing to get what should rightfully be considered an "end-game" ship, this is an incredibly horribad change.
The problem is that while an xMom is just a big target when flying solo, in groups they are absolutely devastating. Just imagine a group of 40 Aeons, each fitted with 5 Capital Remote Armor Repairers. A single Aeon is able to add anywhere between 10 and 15k DPS worth of tank to the spidertank web. This means 400-600k DPS tank to any single one of these xMoms. Couple this with anywhere from 10 to 30 million EHP on these beasts, and you have an unbeatable blob.
Do I even need to mention that unlike carriers, you can not break the spidertank of these things. They cannot be jammed, dampened or disrupted. Their RR web is invulnerable.
At any time that a blob like this is deployed, fleet warfare is eliminated. You will not be able to deploy a battleship - they'll die in seconds, normal capitals will die like flies, and the only way to counter it is by deploying a blob like this just as big.
Does anyone think that alliances such as AAA, Atlas, PL, Goons, IT, Morsus Mihi etc will NOT be able to field 40-man xMom fleets within a year of this change if it goes into effect? This will further prevent smaller alliances from achieving anything in 0.0.
What will happen then?
Obviously these blobs are too powerful. The result is that they need to be nerfed. xMoms will take the brunt of these nerfs. In the end, we'll be worse off than when we started, because not only will xMoms once again have been nerfed into oblivion. Judging by the past history of CCP nerfs and changes, they will have ruined 0.0 warfare for maybe up to two years before this is fixed.
Pandora's box
This is a clear case of Pandora's Box. Once you open the box, it cannot be closed. You cannot put the genie back into the bottle. With the huge proliferation that this will result in, you can never change motherships back to what they used to be.
In effect, you may end up killing eve.
QFT .... had a discussion to sell or self destruct our titans if we get 60 bil a piece through selling thats 24 moms HVC alone can add to our fleet. Afterall titans will jus be JB machines so might as well. CCP wanna open pandora's box? Do ya? ______________________________
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Enigma Crysis
PsyTech Ltd
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:49:00 -
[735]
Originally by: w0rmy Hey look on the bright side...
Atleast they have allowed us to keep our boot.ini this time
the patch isnt done on tq so far
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w0rmy
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:50:00 -
[736]
Edited by: w0rmy on 13/11/2009 10:50:07
Originally by: Artemis Rose As for the speculation on anything related to Dominion, you all knew from the start nothing is set in stone. They say so on SiSi constantly, just about any of the blogs or any info we get is explained that its all in flux. For anybody who took up the rush to buy them pre-Dominion, you got burned speculating, you have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself. You are capital pilots right, you should have been around for more than a few expansions and all the last minute changes that go into them.
If I bought a Cerberus/Hulk early 2007, I would have paid A LOT more for it than its worth now. The game is constantly changing and you should all know better that if you buy it, its not a static good that will always be worth X. You paid for it when you did, when it was worth what it was. Nobody forced you to buy one.
They are not DPS ships, they really never should be. The days of solo camping the Tama gate in Nyx are long gone, and good riddance to that. Even if CCP plans to have them fill an anti-capital role, the only ship you could possibly damage would be Sieged Dreads due to the other capitals fitting smart bombs. Its best just to disregard it and enjoy the expanded capabilities of the Super Carrier.
At the price point of 5-6 billion ISK, they make a fantastic upgrade from a normal Carrier. More slots/HP/CAP and the added bonus of being EWAR immune. If anybody who is crying now realizes that they are in fact.. CARRIERS will realize that double the amount of drones is worth nowhere near 10 billion ISK.
TL:DR
The reduced costs makes it worth them to field them solely as better versions of Carriers.
You sound intelligent enough to be a dev!!
CCP Hire this guy!!
PS: CCP, that was a joke btw.
Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
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Ghost448
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:54:00 -
[737]
INTERVENTION: CCP, pls don't do EVE easier to play!
Wins&Loses in EVE need to be RLY EPIC!!!!
SAFE THE MOM'S!!!! It's a Loch Ness among the caps(for me and many hard-playing pilots), let it be! I rly need to hear stories about mega-supa-cap fights and take part in !!!EPIC!!! EVE battles, i don't wanna see mom blobs every CTA. Or it will become usual and casual
mom > 18+bil
DELIVER more cruelty and hardcore in game - that's why EVE always on ppl minds.
ps sry for bad english
I LOVE EVE
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Glassback
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:02:00 -
[738]
Lots of sane, constructive posts.
All going to waste because.....
Originally by: CCP Navigator Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Quoting for the eternal embarrassment of CCP and the spirit of EVE. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:05:00 -
[739]
Originally by: Artemis Rose They are not DPS ships, they really never should be. The days of solo camping the Tama gate in Nyx are long gone, and good riddance to that. Even if CCP plans to have them fill an anti-capital role, the only ship you could possibly damage would be Sieged Dreads due to the other capitals fitting smart bombs. Its best just to disregard it and enjoy the expanded capabilities of the Super Carrier.
…well, yes, not with these changes they won't.
Against sieged dreads, these "anti-cap" Moms will see themselves outdamaged by a two or three battleships ( again). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
fuze
Gallente Quam Singulari Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:12:00 -
[740]
Knowing CCP they will back down anyway. They are way to scared to tick off their customers too much. With a bloody good reason.
This nerf reduces the mom to a tier 2 carrier and there is nothing super about it anymore. Like nerfing the Black Ops BS into a Field Recon ship.
If you want to have tier 2 carriers its fine but keep the mom special. Pherhaps the Art dept can slap on some other paint on the carrier current models and be done with that and presto tier 2 carriers.
Similar with the Titan. With current nerfs its like it becomes a tier 2 dreadnaught. Did it get a build cost cut, number of high slots nerfed or have its DEATHRAY removed?
And what Mittens said. Who they .... put this guy into charge and .... is he doing to mess up this game.
If I'm in the game sitting in a Dreadnaught in siege I want to .... my pants when I see a mom on the field and pray he won't send his bomber fighters my way.
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ropnes
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:20:00 -
[741]
Originally by: Uzume Ame An other terrible change brought to you by sisipi.
Get with the times
Activision are the bad guys now
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Han Grit
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:24:00 -
[742]
Edited by: Han Grit on 13/11/2009 11:24:06 I have no idea why my post was deleted, I didnt insult anyone, just expressed my opinion about the proposed changes. Trying again, don't delete my post this time thanks..
Changing the price from 15b isk to 5b isk is too harsh for people who currently own a mothership. There have been nerfs in the past but this is just too big. Insta-removing 10b isk from each mothership pilot, money they probably spent months to raise, wtf.
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Fogy
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:26:00 -
[743]
This stupidity doesnt deserve any constructive critisism. Go make som cofe, grab a rag and go to Seleenes office, give him the cofe, wash his desk, get down on your knees and beg him to fix your god damn mess.
There is a nyx in construction due in 9 days. im supose to pay 18 bill isk for it. isk i have grinded and struggled to get for a ****ing long time. How ever me and the producer sorts things out with this, one or bouth of us getts ****ed up the ass over this stupidity! not only will I be left with a useless ship. i'll loos BILLIONS of isk in the process. THANK YOU FOR WASTING MY TIME AND MONNEY.
This is the first time in 5 years im considering leaving EVE for good. bye bye 4 subscriptions. I know i wont be the only one.
Fogy.
Norwegian Wood, for hire!
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I'm Down
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:32:00 -
[744]
Everyone is missing the major issue. The damage can be dealt with in a variety of ways. What is really the main blow and final nail in the coffin is the sudden drop in price of Moms... Err super carriers.
It is absolutely uncalled for and idiotic to make this change. 13 bil is already too easy of a number to come across in game these days. Dropping it lower is totally devaluing the role of motherships all together. It's disenfranchising all those people who've spent so much more on the ship.
Keep in mind, this isn't t2 where prices and builds fluctuate. This is a t1 ship where mineral cost is/was never supposed to change. T2 is the supply/demand market, t1 is the more stable market of effort.
Because the price has irrationally dropped, killing the damage on a mothership without any means of getting out of the ship at or near 0 loss is forcing players to either hold onto the ship in it's weakened state while being unhappy with it, or forcing them to take an unexpected loss.
I actually accept the change in damage for the most part, I totally deplore the price drop.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:33:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Fogy This is the first time in 5 years im considering leaving EVE for good. bye bye 4 subscriptions. I know i wont be the only one.
Fogy.
Hate to admit it, but that's exactly how I feel after the "proposed changes" with the supercapitals after all the whining and dining have been done.
Signed up to beta test some new Sci-Fi MMOs out there...
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:34:00 -
[746]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 13/11/2009 11:35:30
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 13/11/2009 10:27:27 Well thoughtout post Pandora's box
This is a clear case of Pandora's Box. Once you open the box, it cannot be closed. You cannot put the genie back into the bottle. With the huge proliferation that this will result in, you can never change motherships back to what they used to be.
In effect, you may end up killing eve.
Nothing more needs to be said tbh. Too low cost = way too many of these ships. Make a new class without ewar immunity at 6bn that can use a few FB's, cause i suspect you want to give more/new ppl something "big" to aim for. "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Maria Dalin
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:35:00 -
[747]
Well, Hopefully someone within CCP reads this and realizes what they are about to do with the game. Im one of them luckey few that have bought 2 ms's within the last 4 weeks, so ill lose like what? 30b? on this insane crap. Really wish someone within CCP would grow a pair of balls and acctually comment on this..
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Willy Nerfalot
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:40:00 -
[748]
Id like to start off by saying i understand how you all feel, but since something similar happened to me, and i was told to 'adapt or die', i cant do that.
Count yourself lucky you only have skillpoints in one ship type wiped out. Me, I lost millions of sp for an entire race when the blaster ships got nerfed into uselessness as a side effect of nerfing nano (which gallente werent even good at).
So, erm, adapt or die yourselves?
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Fogy
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:41:00 -
[749]
NERF NOZH! NOT OUR MOMS!
Norwegian Wood, for hire!
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1Of9
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:51:00 -
[750]
Originally by: Fogy NERF NOZH! NOT OUR MOMS!
thiz.
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:57:00 -
[751]
Originally by: Fogy NERF NOZH! NOT OUR MOMS!
Looks like my 16b ship is just going to be used for moving other ships around.
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:08:00 -
[752]
Originally by: Fogy This stupidity doesnt deserve any constructive critisism. Go make som cofe, grab a rag and go to Seleenes office, give him the cofe, wash his desk, get down on your knees and beg him to fix your god damn mess.
There is a nyx in construction due in 9 days. im supose to pay 18 bill isk for it. isk i have grinded and struggled to get for a ****ing long time. How ever me and the producer sorts things out with this, one or bouth of us getts ****ed up the ass over this stupidity! not only will I be left with a useless ship. i'll loos BILLIONS of isk in the process. THANK YOU FOR WASTING MY TIME AND MONNEY.
This is the first time in 5 years im considering leaving EVE for good. bye bye 4 subscriptions. I know i wont be the only one.
Fogy.
I know exactly how you feel, I personally worked my a$$ off to get an Aeon upon the announcement. I sold all 5 of my capital ships (revelation, archon, nidhoggur, naglfar, chimera), carebear'd my a$$ off, liqudated a ton of assets to be able to purchase the mothersip package. I logged on this afternoon with excitement because construction completion was only 4 hours away to get spammed by everyone that my Aeon was just turned into a 5 billion isk archon that i spent 12+ billion to build.
Talk about a slap in the face from CCP after years of hard work, skill training, and money on account subscription. I can just imagine how the long time mothership pilots feel after getting their hopes up that that they were gonna get to actually dust off their pride and joy and actually be able to use them for the first time in a year, instead they too just lost at least 7 billion in equity just on the hull and have to cancel their subscription on that holding account again. Reguardless if i "jumped the gun" and built the aeon based on sisi testing and what ccp said was the new mothership stats, I still purchased the build package for 12+ bill and didnt care that after dominion it was gonna be worth 1b less in build cost, I was OK with that, but 7 billion isk loss in one click of the button from the devs without any warning, this isnt a "tweak" this is a complete "WE JUST SCREWED YOU HARDCORE WITHOUT ANY LUBE" change. Is CCP gonna reimburse all Mothership pilots?
And furthermore, I have seen nearly a whole day go by without any feedback from the devs, WTF is with that? The closest thing we have seen as far as a response goes is deleting posts/threads where the customer base has spoken and CCP has refused to listen aside from the occasional "be costructive or risk being banned" response. Sisi testing had nothing but popular feedback on the supercarrier/titan changes, aside from the occasional guy who has never flown capitals much less even been in a fleet engagement because he doesnt wanna lose his mission running raven in 0.0. CCP should listen to the pilots who actually use capitals and engage in fleet combat against 300 other comptetent pilots instead of listening to people who do a capital free for all test on sisi to get their rocks off. Both the supercarrier and titan were right on line with their new roles and your feedback thread on them shows that the majority of true 0.0 fleet combat pilots agreed with those changes and were ready to accept them as they were....sure a few minor tweaks here and there to get them perfect or to get out any small glitches were needed....but to completely nerf them back to being a basic carrier with dread damage is just ignorant, especially considering the fact that there is so much isk invested by each of these pilots to have them.
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Amy Wang
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 12:08:00 -
[753]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
If I bought a Cerberus/Hulk early 2007, I would have paid A LOT more for it than its worth now.
the build costs did not change, you can reprocess the ship now and get the same in components back as in 2007, so you lost nothing those component prices might have changed, true, but that is market fluctuations, the mom/sc cost change is a complete deliberate decision by CCP
also you could use the Cerb and Hulk in all those years quite well, moms were broken for the past years and not worth to be logged on just gathering dust
and lastly, the numbers involved make it it complete different ballgame, did multiple people work hard over a long time to allow you affording your hulk or cerb? guess not or you really fail at isk making lol
frankly I am not too fuzzed about the dps changes, the ships are still better off then before the "fix" (if you want to call it that lol), it is not the promised buff that was dangled in front of our faces though which is quite disappointing
But then, adding injustice to the insult: the build cost change
There has to be some kind of reimbursement, otherwise why should people work for anything in the game at all if it can just get taken away from them in a completely arbitrary so called "design decision" ?
if I want meaningless accomplishments that dont last I play a single player game and save the 45Ç/month for 3 accounts, sounds like a good idea more and more tbh
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Jen Khai
Black Hawk Down Syndrome
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:17:00 -
[754]
RAAAGE lol
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ST0NE MONKEY
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 12:20:00 -
[755]
The way CCP will see this is that Titans/Moms(soon to be super carriers) are way out of the reach of new players and might be putting them off turning their trial accounts into paying accounts. Some SC pilots might have spent years earning the isk for their pride and joy but a lot of them will have their ships and accounts paid for by their alliances with PLEX cards bought via isk. in business terms as far as the board members at CCP will be concerned PLEX cards might hamper RMT but they also let a lot of players play for free. It's the same with the exorbitant sov costs in Dominion and the NPC corp tax. less isk in the game will result in fewer people playing via PLEX cards. It's all about the numbers, if 1,000 old characters quit but they get 10,000 new players that's a net gain of 9,000 cash playing accounts. You might think this is a game but it's a business so it's all about the real money.
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Mashashige
Minmatar Eternal Perseverance Hellstrome Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:23:00 -
[756]
So I've been keeping track of this whine thread among thousands of others regarding dominion, and trying my best not to leave a stone untrolled.
And all I ever really get from it is this:
"OI OI OI YOI, MY MOM GOT NERFED, I LOST 17BILLION, MY ***** IS SMALL AND INADEQUATE, PLEASE SEND ME ADS FOR ***** ENLARGEMENT PILLS/TREATMENTS, OH PLEASE!!! I PROMISE I WILL CLOSE MY 100 BILLIONGAZILLIONTRAFILION ACO****S, AND ALL MY FRIENDS WILL CLOSE THEIRS, AND EVE WILL DIE CAUSE OF ONE (bad) NERF. SO FIX IT OR I WILL OMGWTFBBQRAGEQUIT!"
Having said that, CCP does need to work on costumer relations/ PR/ Support - but in the end, you'll all stay in eve, or go play WoW for 6 months, get bored, and came back again. Were all addicted, so stfu and htfu!
\O/ NOZH IS THE GRIEFERS GOD BTW! =======================================
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
AIRB
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 12:24:00 -
[757]
Thank u CCP for making it so easy for me to justify the decision to stop subbing my accts.
Predicting CEO comedy fanfest 2010 video...
'Hokay guys....100k member accts'.
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Guggstdu
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:25:00 -
[758]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1213726
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:28:00 -
[759]
Well I sold a few chars Id been training for years to buy my mom so Ive lost literally a few years work as well as the money paying for those subs for that time purely on what seems like a whim.
----------------------------------------------- Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Varia Hellfire
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:39:00 -
[760]
D00minion
|
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Latino lover
Minmatar Razboinici Luminii
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:39:00 -
[761]
Nice to see that CCP FAILED at EVE Online ... I think this is the only mmo where the players are better then the Game Masters lol
--
In GIGI we trust !! |
RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:43:00 -
[762]
..Stupid forum...
well as to the capabilities I'll leave that to others - now production ... ummm ME0 12Bil to 7.3Bil Approx cost [Aeon] no Clone Vat bay usage so now we have lost the ability to jump into them ?
-- 3 Titans Lottery EB | Capital |
Nyx STeeLGamers
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:50:00 -
[763]
When your devs changed the Helios hull I was ****ed. Just because you wanted to make everything logically sound you killed the looks of one of the best looking ships in eve, the old helios. I should have realized then that your dev(s) don't care about player sentiment and think eve is something that was broken before the change of the Helios hull. Well let me share with you that whoever changed the Helios hull f--u--c--k--e--d up good. You disregarded player sentiment and messed with what they loved. Now you take that to a whole new higher level by this sad nerf of yours. Really, this is a game about players having fun, even if it's dark fun, but you have been f---ing it up.
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Muadd Dibb
Caldari Calimae Logistics Foundation Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:52:00 -
[764]
CCP
Might I ask what are you trying to prove by dropping the costs of MOM's
There are alot of chars who have spent months years on getting to this stage in there EvE online experience and in one patch you blow all of that out of the water. Some of the patches and nerfs have had there complaints but they have gone very quickly because they were quite small in the whole experience
Logically I welcome this as it will give newer chars more chance of getting in one but at what cost?
On a balance ratio to put costs down will make it easier to build and sell thus more MOM's on the field. Yet you are not taking into consideration your base of chars already.
Yes EvE is a constantly changing game as that is why you designed it but its based on chars creating your game within your so called sandbox
I dont think its right you should just come in with your big bat and whack all mom pilots into detonating there possibly wasted isk
You may have reasons behind this IE a new superclass vessel that you may bring out on a new patch or at the time of this idea your were all drunk on punch and pie but dropping a bat of this magnitude must be hard on EvE's players who have fought hard and played long to be in one (or saved enought isk to buy a char blah blah).
tbh I dont have a Nyx or a Hel etc but you need to know it is not just affecting them
my 2cents thanks
FLY Safe
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Han Grit
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:52:00 -
[765]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Battle Tested I personally worked my a$$ off to get an Aeon upon the announcement. I sold all 5 of my capital ships (revelation, archon, nidhoggur, naglfar, chimera), carebear'd my a$$ off, liqudated a ton of assets to be able to purchase the mothersip package. I logged on this afternoon with excitement because construction completion was only 4 hours away to get spammed by everyone that my Aeon was just turned into a 5 billion isk archon that i spent 12+ billion to build.
owned lol
haha
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Jallem Sims
Minmatar Alternative Mode
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:54:00 -
[766]
its a little too easy for people to knock the complaints of those that have worked hard to get what they set there sights on so many months ago. i am trying to think of what its like.... basically anyone thats brought a mom in the last few months, or even before you mentioned the orignal concept everyone got so happy about, has just had ccp hack their account.
why hack? how else can you explain the sudden loss in assets this build cost has resulted in. yeah, so 12-14bil for a mom 2 months back, took maybe a year to build that kind of isk.... 12-14bil... for those that aren't the top end corp directors, that kind of isk is not so common. You could potentially make it by ruuing plex's for a month in a secure location... but thats still a months work.
the stuff i could buy with 12bil... thats why this is a issue! only thing i can think of worse is your account been hacked and all your assets removed....
i don't fly caps, but i feel for those that have worked hard for their mom and now SC. Never mind the dps change... the total value of assests just dropped by more isk than i have ever had at one time in my 3 yrs of playing! |
Rewt ed
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:57:00 -
[767]
i think this dev is a spy for blizzard is gonna do what happened to bob to ccp.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:01:00 -
[768]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Please also note that Community Managers do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Fixed that slight typo for you that seems to have added extra grief in this thread.
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:29:00 -
[769]
All these hours next to Abathur in a Mothership. All these months, discussion mothership and titan tactics, talking about how motherships would be after the introduction of HIDs and how to make them useful again.
Then finding out Abathur works for CCP and is making supercap changes.
To see Nozh **** it all up in 5 minutes.
Priceless. Now put him back in his cage.
Ta.
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Nova Tiempo
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:33:00 -
[770]
I do have to say that having seen all this, I am extrely glad that my mothership was due to start cooking after dominion due to possible sov losses in capital shipyard areas.
I'd already bought a nice set of officer cap rechargers, smartys etc to fit - those can just be re jitaised now.
The main thing that galls me is that my indy alt spent, oh I dunno, at least 6 months training up the tree of basic requirements to be a mothership parking alt. Also, the sheer pain of existing mom pilots must be excruciating, and would guess alot of them will unfit, of load drones and self destruct to get back some precious isk.
I suppose at least now I'll be able to feild a pair of thanatos's at a battle. Though at this point, Im just hoping the other dominion features will perk my interest back up.
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Han Grit
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:34:00 -
[771]
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr All these months, discussion mothership and titan tactics
And then finally deciding to just warp to the gate.
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Soldur
Helljumpers
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:37:00 -
[772]
sucks for you guys that currently are building moms or have one already. The sad part is though that if you do intend on ever your your mom for combat then it'll be alot easier for you to replace it when it dies.
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Del Girl
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:47:00 -
[773]
Originally by: CCP Weirdfish
Sums it up :)
There is already a thread open disusing the supercarrier changes here.
Please do not start duplicate threads.
Give us some explanation then, its not much to ask for one of your staff to type a response to the hundreds of posts that are all generally sharing the same view :(
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Tebis
BlackTalon Mining Corp G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:52:00 -
[774]
The one thing I don't understand is that this seems to completely take away from their intended role. Anti-capital warfare
Sure you can still have 10 fighter bombers but with the explosion radius figured in they don't outdamage dreads .. the numbers have been put up
So the only real role for these is to go with the standard carrier fit (minus a triage module), fit buffer with the massive eHP boost, and RR
Also if you consider Nozh's "dps fit" supercarrier with nothing but DCUs vs a standard smart bomb/neut/rr fit .. with all things being equal (numbers.. proper capital support.. etc) the SC with DCUs is at a distinct disadvantage because the standard fit SC can eliminate its dps (smart bombs + support helping) and help keep its support alive with RR, while the dps fit will have to sit there and tank it and hope his support can kill off the bombers fast enough
am I wrong?
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Jazuz Krist
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:55:00 -
[775]
to all the people whining and quitting can I have your stuff?
I like how you all make fun of peoples sad stories about how they lost x amount of isk or got scammed by some dastardly person and you all have a big laugh about it and say they got owned, and they should never trust anyone in eve.
well least of all you should trust the ones who make the game the way it is.
so stop crying, grow up, and enjoy a taste of your own medicine, dont like it now do ya?
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Master Arrow
Trinity Capital Endeavors Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:03:00 -
[776]
Originally by: Jazuz Krist to all the people whining and quitting can I have your stuff?
I like how you all make fun of peoples sad stories about how they lost x amount of isk or got scammed by some dastardly person and you all have a big laugh about it and say they got owned, and they should never trust anyone in eve.
well least of all you should trust the ones who make the game the way it is.
so stop crying, grow up, and enjoy a taste of your own medicine, dont like it now do ya?
being scammed in Jita by a contract is a whole lot different than being scammed by CCP Devs for 10 billion isk |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:17:00 -
[777]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
I'm not impacted the least, but I'm still saying something is retarded when I see it. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Miss Spomo
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:24:00 -
[778]
from the guy who nerfed nano... i really hope this time u get hit by a bus ...
and yes ban me iam an alt morons haha in y0 ass
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Duncan Hines
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:27:00 -
[779]
As with most people here I am completely against these changes. Like most people that have Motherships, I slaved away to make the isk needed to buy one. No one is complaining about these ships being overpowered and yet someone feels the need to change them??? I have to agree if this change goes through my only recourse will be to cancel my subscription and move on.
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gnome blood
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:31:00 -
[780]
Why do people whine about spending money based on Sisi stats and rumors?
It¦s not final until it¦s on TQ.
If you spent 20 bill based on the test-server, you deserve every laugh and smirk.
For those that have these ships from before; So what? This happens all the time. No investment in Eve has ever been safe from nerfs or buffs. This isn¦t different in any way.
No matter how you spin this, it¦s a buff to the moms as they are on TQ at the moment. Is it enough for people to risk them in fights? Who gives a ****? If you weren¦t using it, you hadn¦t the balls or support to use them anyway. No change there.
Their ability to solo is the only real change from the last iteration on Sisi. It¦s probably not the last change to them on Sisi either.
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:35:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Jazuz Krist to all the people whining and quitting can I have your stuff?
I like how you all make fun of peoples sad stories about how they lost x amount of isk or got scammed by some dastardly person and you all have a big laugh about it and say they got owned, and they should never trust anyone in eve.
well least of all you should trust the ones who make the game the way it is.
so stop crying, grow up, and enjoy a taste of your own medicine, dont like it now do ya?
Quoting the truth.
You guys are filling my mission running heart with joy, you girls cry harder then a guy who's been scammed in Jita.
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Uzume Ame
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:36:00 -
[782]
Nozh is a shared trolling gamebalance account, unpopular decissions are announced by him for damage control measures.
This patch = terribad, CCP devs = terribad. First they announce the ****up of system upgrades & upkeep, they are clueless: lvl4 rewards for much more risk. Also they "rebalance" moongoo to swap two bottlenecks (Dyspro/Prom) by one which will be even stronger (Technetium). Then they 're-rebalance' supercaps from soemthing unoriginal and crappy to soemthing compelttly worthless, in addition they **** MS pilots scamming them for 10 bill. (more than 300 bucks vallue, you must be proud of it CCP).
CCP, so clueless, it's hard to make things worse. At this pace you will pull a NGE soon, gratz!
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Miss Spomo
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:38:00 -
[783]
Originally by: Mkiaki
Originally by: Jazuz Krist to all the people whining and quitting can I have your stuff?
I like how you all make fun of peoples sad stories about how they lost x amount of isk or got scammed by some dastardly person and you all have a big laugh about it and say they got owned, and they should never trust anyone in eve.
well least of all you should trust the ones who make the game the way it is.
so stop crying, grow up, and enjoy a taste of your own medicine, dont like it now do ya?
Quoting the truth.
You guys are filling my mission running heart with joy, you girls cry harder then a guy who's been scammed in Jita.
aww poor lil*** got scamed awww, dont be mad dude
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:39:00 -
[784]
Originally by: gnome blood No matter how you spin this, it¦s a buff to the moms as they are on TQ at the moment.
Could you enlighten us where is that buff?
The whole problem about this is the 180 degree turns CCP make and not even sticking to their own initial plans / promises / announcements ..
Also if the changes are not intended and will never land on TQ why not a single dev / ccp employee has responded in the past couple of days stating that? Besides the increased forum thread locking and deletes from moderators..
Just to make community angry? If yes - thats accomplished by 120% ..
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Pos Pounder
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:40:00 -
[785]
this "Lets dangle a carrot at player which will never happen and then lets make the MoM cheap so everyone can get them easy" sounds WAY to familiar.......
CCP Nozh did you actually work on SWG? was it you who where responsible for the Jedi nerf?
Note : im guessing Abathur quit his job over this? i would if somebody who never finish their own stuff come and want to take my job site away from me when its nearly completed, just so he can go up to his boss and say hey i did something today
you say what unfinished work? well im not gonna link you your own thread you know where it is and what needs to be done
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Larkness
modro Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:41:00 -
[786]
LOLs its amazing how fast CCP locked my thread HEREand yet they wont fix or respond to the concerns raised by us players in this topic - nor did they ever respond again about fixing the cyno effects - one word LAME
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:44:00 -
[787]
Originally by: Uzume Ame Nozh is a shared trolling gamebalance account, unpopular decissions are announced by him for damage control measures.
This patch = terribad, CCP devs = terribad. First they announce the ****up of system upgrades & upkeep, they are clueless: lvl4 rewards for much more risk. Also they "rebalance" moongoo to swap two bottlenecks (Dyspro/Prom) by one which will be even stronger (Technetium). Then they 're-rebalance' supercaps from soemthing unoriginal and crappy to soemthing compelttly worthless, in addition they **** MS pilots scamming them for 10 bill. (more than 300 bucks vallue, you must be proud of it CCP).
CCP, so clueless, it's hard to make things worse. At this pace you will pull a NGE soon, gratz!
Can I have your stuff?
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Amy Wang
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:44:00 -
[788]
Originally by: gnome blood
Why do people whine about spending money based on Sisi stats and rumors?
Fair enough...but in this case there was a devblog detailing the changes and intentions not just SiSi stats. And that devblog did not say "we might cut this back severely though and change our mind completely" on the contrary it said something along the lines of "if anything there will be additional buffs coming compared to whats now on SiSi".
So either CCP is messing with us deliberately or they dont know what they are doing, both is not good.
PS: No, I have not bought a mom/sc based on this, I owned one for years, spinning it in space most of the time for lack of a proper use but holding on to it cause they had to fix it some day. Right? Yea...
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Uzume Ame
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:47:00 -
[789]
Originally by: Ivanna Nuke
Can I have your stuff?
Your trolling is not amusing. And no, you can't have my stuff, if it ends somewhere it would be on biomass. F*A*G.
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Lupinum
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:47:00 -
[790]
I have no words for how stupid these changes are.
4 accounts cancelled until this is reversed, or mothership accounts are reimbursed the 12bil owed to them if this goes through.
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gnome blood
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:56:00 -
[791]
Edited by: gnome blood on 13/11/2009 14:56:31
Originally by: R0ze
Originally by: gnome blood No matter how you spin this, it¦s a buff to the moms as they are on TQ at the moment.
Could you enlighten us where is that buff?
EHP and dps has been quadrupled or more from their current stats on the LIVE server. They lost half their dps from the last iteration on the TEST server.
Wishful thinking isn¦t game balance.
Quote:
The whole problem about this is the 180 degree turns CCP make and not even sticking to their own initial plans / promises / announcements ..
What promises? They tested one possible change on the test-server. When is that any kind of promise?
Quote:
Also if the changes are not intended and will never land on TQ why not a single dev / ccp employee has responded in the past couple of days stating that? Besides the increased forum thread locking and deletes from moderators..
Moderators and devs are different people. Forum warriors post a lot of knee-jerk crap whenever there¦s a change. Goddamn stupid lemmings and trolls, most of them. Most of the time the changes turn out good. Maybe not for you personally, but that¦s completely irrelevant - by design. This is an MMO, after all.
CCP will explain the changes in a blog. They¦re slow to post that blog, but so what, that¦s nothing new.
Quote:
Just to make community angry? If yes - thats accomplished by 120% ..
I wish people would stop taking game changes personally. Seriously, grow up or GTFO.
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tx eight
Minmatar Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:57:00 -
[792]
No amount of isk can reverse the PR damage caused by first sovereignity price scheme not being what they announced all along, then half-hearted cut of it and lack of much promised commentary on it for a week, then this stealth-in-your-face mothership crush.
They better come up with some detailed and convincing story about all this. Not many people are masochistic enough to play a game knowing that lies, rudeness and scams are the offical policy on community relations.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:59:00 -
[793]
Originally by: gnome blood What promises?
The ones made before fanfest, at fanfest, in the previous blogs, in particularly the promise that it would become an anti-cap ship — a role that it will not be able to fulfil in any useful way. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Mrs Snowman
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:59:00 -
[794]
I can understand the frustration from MOM owners, but its a bit arrogant to assume this will "kill eve"
Consider all the players out there who dont own them and could probably never own them due to their cost. The percentage of people that own these and regularly use these ships is probably extremely low compared to the general eve player base.
You veteran players need to stop thinking about yourself tbh. 0.0 alliances have locked up 0.0 space so tight and shut themselves out to the rest of the community that if everyone who owns a mom cancels their subscription it really wont be a bad thing. There will be 1000 players ready to pounce in your place.
Destroy Eve? no, Liberate it maybe.
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:00:00 -
[795]
Originally by: tx eight No amount of isk can reverse the PR damage caused by first sovereignity price scheme not being what they announced all along, then half-hearted cut of it and lack of much promised commentary on it for a week, then this stealth-in-your-face mothership crush.
They better come up with some detailed and convincing story about all this. Not many people are masochistic enough to play a game knowing that lies, rudeness and scams are the offical policy on community relations.
*plays violin*
Adapt or die, welcome to EVE.
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Larkness
modro Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:01:00 -
[796]
Originally by: tx eight No amount of isk can reverse the PR damage caused by first sovereignity price scheme not being what they announced all along, then half-hearted cut of it and lack of much promised commentary on it for a week, then this stealth-in-your-face mothership crush.
They better come up with some detailed and convincing story about all this. Not many people are masochistic enough to play a game knowing that lies, rudeness and scams are the offical policy on community relations.
Aye - HEAR , HEAR
I posted my disgust and like a quite a few others i got my thread locked
I have 6 accounts now if they think they can just lock my forum posts at whim i believe i need to put another post up this time asking to speak to one their managers since they obviously cannot listen to their customers
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Del Girl
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:03:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Lupinum I have no words for how stupid these changes are.
4 accounts cancelled until this is reversed, or mothership accounts are reimbursed the 12bil owed to them if this goes through.
Sadly it really makes no difference to CCP. As all companies do they care more about new subscribers than the ones that have kept them afloat for years.
If the 500 Supercap pilots quit, so what? They would just count the cash from 3000 noobs joining.
Sad state of affairs but thats the way it seems :(
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:07:00 -
[798]
Originally by: gnome blood EHP and dps has been quadrupled or more from their current stats on the LIVE server. They lost half their dps from the last iteration on the TEST server.
They lost DPS (if you skip the anti-capital role) also compared to current TQ .. EHP is quite useless in general if you have no means of counterreacting.
Quote: What promises? They tested one possible change on the test-server. When is that any kind of promise?
Read the Dominion devblog regarding supercapital changes ..
Quote: Moderators and devs are different people.
That is clear / noone asks anything regarding game mechanics from moderators - still their task should be to communicate back and relay the issues which could be solved even just by a simple one-liner from a dev.. That way minimising their own amount of work too.
Quote: I wish people would stop taking game changes personally. Seriously, grow up or GTFO.
Don't take it seriosly too by sending others somewhere .. People will make their own decision when its enough for them and drop for something else..
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:07:00 -
[799]
Originally by: Larkness
Originally by: tx eight No amount of isk can reverse the PR damage caused by first sovereignity price scheme not being what they announced all along, then half-hearted cut of it and lack of much promised commentary on it for a week, then this stealth-in-your-face mothership crush.
They better come up with some detailed and convincing story about all this. Not many people are masochistic enough to play a game knowing that lies, rudeness and scams are the offical policy on community relations.
Aye - HEAR , HEAR
I posted my disgust and like a quite a few others i got my thread locked
I have 6 accounts now if they think they can just lock my forum posts at whim i believe i need to put another post up this time asking to speak to one their managers since they obviously cannot listen to their customers
I do so enjoy your tears over a few pixels, and because you have multiple accounts you feel you have an impact on how they develop their game.
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:15:00 -
[800]
this is wrong. supercarriers should be t2 carriers. make a crap texture for the current ones. give them these stats and leave ms alone. leave the vat bay in and the 20 fb's.
so we have carrier - 700mill t2 super carrier. - basicaly the nerfed ms stats. 6bill maybe with a gimic lick covert jump portal. motherships - 16-20bill increase the jump range to.
then there's a ship for every one from the vets to the newbs.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
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Seneram
Caldari B'haxed Productions The Dominium
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:17:00 -
[801]
Its quite some bull**** that they go "Easier for smaller alliances!!" "More dynamic 0.0" "Awsome sauce Titans and moms" And then whipe it all out when its going that way... ------------------------------------------------- PewPew |
Larkness
modro Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:21:00 -
[802]
yer well **** them im just gonna go play wow for awhile until they fix this **** - aleast i dont pay real money for my accounts or id be even more ****ed off at their apparent ignorance - its not their game its our game the people with active accounts who end up ultimately paying them their weekly cheque's
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gnome blood
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:28:00 -
[803]
Edited by: gnome blood on 13/11/2009 15:29:22
Originally by: R0ze
Originally by: gnome blood fnipp
They lost DPS (if you skip the anti-capital role) also compared to current TQ .. EHP is quite useless in general if you have no means of counterreacting.
If you skip the anti-capital role? Are you serious? CCP decided it¦s the new role for the ship and you conveniently skip it?
They have lost the ability to operate without a support fleet. That they¦ve lost half their drone dps is a disadvantage if they were supposed to deal with small fleets solo.
Boo-hoo.
They will require a support fleet.
Quote:
Quote: What promises? They tested one possible change on the test-server. When is that any kind of promise?
Read the Dominion devblog regarding supercapital changes ..
I¦ve read it. It doesn¦t say anywhere that they promise to change the motherships into solo-supercarriers of omgwtfbbqdoom. It does say they want to change capital warfare. They redefine motherships to be anti-capital weapons and more than halve their price to better accommodate that role.
Their current DPS on Sisi will surely change to reflect that new role, assuming peoples DPS calculations are based on good/correct data, which I highly doubt. Something tells me the magic number comment from Nozh is the key there. I could be wrong about that.
(fnipped some stuff I agree with)
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Uzume Ame
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:34:00 -
[804]
Originally by: fairimear this is wrong. supercarriers should be t2 carriers. make a crap texture for the current ones. give them these stats and leave ms alone. leave the vat bay in and the 20 fb's.
so we have carrier - 700mill t2 super carrier. - basicaly the nerfed ms stats. 6bill maybe with a gimic lick covert jump portal. motherships - 16-20bill increase the jump range to.
then there's a ship for every one from the vets to the newbs.
QFT, but :CCP: lacks sense.
Additionally, fix the **** you're doing with citadel (inc. compact) torpedos, un-nerf titans, un**** failgar, etc.
It can't be so hard, SISIPI
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Tebis
BlackTalon Mining Corp G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:37:00 -
[805]
Originally by: gnome blood If you skip the anti-capital role? Are you serious? CCP decided it¦s the new role for the ship and you conveniently skip it?
But they aren't making it a superior anti capital ship from the sounds of it... now if the DPS numbers are way off and you can provide 2 dreads worth of DPS or some such .. it might be worth it
but the DPS is destructible .. fairly easily .. you send it into a group of RR capital ships with some smart bombs fit and they don't hold up very well
also if it requires you to put a full rack of DCUs in the highs you are not only gimping your own defense against drones.. you are gimping your support fleet since you will not be able to provide any RR
I don't see enough motivation to use these in any other method other than high eHP remote rep carriers .. which doesn't fulfill the anti-cap role at all
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MarkusBarak
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:37:00 -
[806]
SOBs deleted my post so I will be a lil nicer this time go F yourself CCP why bother changing them at all might as well leave them the way they are and not go through all the trouble they will stay mobile POS art that have some use at moving ships around unless you end up nerfing the maint bay too im sure its only a mater of time. In fact just remove them from the game would make your life easier.
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Jazuz Krist
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:38:00 -
[807]
Originally by: Uzume Ame
Originally by: Ivanna Nuke
Can I have your stuff?
Your trolling is not amusing. And no, you can't have my stuff, if it ends somewhere it would be on biomass. F*A*G.
aww da poor baby doesnt like trolling now when you are on the receiving end of it?
no one can dispute that the majority of eve people get together and laugh at people who suffer huge losses of isk and assets after being scammed and stolen from and manipulated.
yet here you are crying when it happens to you. it just so happens that it happened to like 300 of you at once. so you are making a loud splash.
newsflash: ccp does not care about your total 1000 accounts if that much and probably 500 of which you may cancel total.
fact: motherships/supercarriers are getting a boost in survivability with the HP boost. and a damage boost with bombers, how you choose to use that boost and employ it is up to you.
continue to whine your tears are delicious.
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:42:00 -
[808]
i do wonder how many people whining about this change here actually have, in possession, a mothership right now?
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Cone Filler
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:42:00 -
[809]
Edited by: Cone Filler on 13/11/2009 15:44:42
Originally by: gnome blood
.....
Their current DPS on Sisi will surely change to reflect that new role, assuming peoples DPS calculations are based on good/correct data, which I highly doubt. Something tells me the magic number comment from Nozh is the key there. I could be wrong about that.
(fnipped some stuff I agree with)
-1/10 HERE have a go at it yourself and you will find out what the magic number is
ofc you would need atleast a college degree to actually do the math and troll college dont count
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Tinator
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:44:00 -
[810]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451 i do wonder how many people whining about this change here actually have, in possession, a mothership right now?
probably almost all of them since obviously someone who doesn't intend to fly/already own one wouldn't care alot about this...
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:45:00 -
[811]
Originally by: gnome blood If you skip the anti-capital role? Are you serious? CCP decided it¦s the new role for the ship and you conveniently skip it?
Yes I'm serious because it bassically does less damage than a regular capital (or you have skipped all the posts so far / never tested yourself?).
Quote: They have lost the ability to operate without a support fleet. That they¦ve lost half their drone dps is a disadvantage if they were supposed to deal with small fleets solo.
They have _gained_ the ability to operate ONLY and ONLY in a blob (every single HIC can take them hands down s).. what was the "anti-" role ment for?
Quote: I¦ve read it. It doesn¦t say anywhere that they promise to change the motherships into solo-supercarriers of omgwtfbbqdoom. It does say they want to change capital warfare. They redefine motherships to be anti-capital weapons and more than halve their price to better accommodate that role.
Just a single quote from the Blog - "Supercarriers are going to get new teeth in the form of the deadly new Fighter Bombers they can launch. Fighter Bombers have exactly one purpose: to destroy capital ships and look very cool while doing so.
Fighter Bombers will be unique to the Supercarrier class, launching specialized torpedoes capable of inflicting immense damage against other capital ships."
new teeth / deadly / very cool / unique / immense damage ...
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:45:00 -
[812]
Originally by: Han Grit
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr All these months, discussion mothership and titan tactics
And then finally deciding to just warp to the gate.
Funny how I can have that amount of foresight eh? It was the right thing to do at the time! :)
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:46:00 -
[813]
They need to let them dock.
They need to create an XL smartbomb called a Defense Grid which will spam the local area against incomming targets ala BSG or something just as cool. This smartbomb will do less damage than expected from the average 2-3 officer smartbombs noramlly fitted but has a further reach instead making its a perferrable defense option.
Need to remind players on the potential of adding new fighter types in the future.
Where is that modular configuration you wanted to do long ago? As is this is an excellent base model to go off of. A fighter modular would that doubles the effectivenesss of DCUs and damage done vs a ship carrier vs a mobile firebase would be nice. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 11OCT09
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:46:00 -
[814]
I don't think the people complaining understand they should be comparing their live versions of motherships to the 'nerfed' version of supercarriers. It's still a ridiculously large EHP buff, a new weapon system (waaay more DPS), and easier to afford at the small cost of reduced defense against smaller ships (which these ships SHOULD have a weakness to).
If you got burned speculating and wanted to make a quick few bil on the patch, guess what, tough luck. The introduction of invention, nano-nerfs, module changes, etc all caused small groups of people (like yourselves) to lose massive amounts of invested ISK.
You guys are complaining because the ships are getting a massive buff, instead of an ultra-massive buff.
Please follow through with your quitting EVE threats if you can't summon the patience for a explanatory devblog; and @ that one guy hoping that CCP employees would get 'hit by a bus' and he's safe in making this comment because he's posting from an alt, I'm at a loss of words at just how stupid you are.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:54:00 -
[815]
Not really sure i see the point in ever buying one of these, even at 5-6 billion, I'd rather just have 2 dread accounts, and enjoy flying the other ships that you get in the process of training a dread alt.
Also lol at the idiots saying you only lose 300 or so pilots if the supercap guys quit. Your probably looking at 3-5 accounts minimum each, for cyno alts, combat alts, money making alts, the mom/titan alt itself, and your also underestimating the number of these **** boxes flying around.
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:57:00 -
[816]
Originally by: Grath Telkin Not really sure i see the point in ever buying one of these, even at 5-6 billion, I'd rather just have 2 dread accounts, and enjoy flying the other ships that you get in the process of training a dread alt.
Also lol at the idiots saying you only lose 300 or so pilots if the supercap guys quit. Your probably looking at 3-5 accounts minimum each, for cyno alts, combat alts, money making alts, the mom/titan alt itself, and your also underestimating the number of these **** boxes flying around.
yeh because numbers based on the server DB are underestimations...even if its been a couple weeks since the QEN...do you really think the number of mom pilots owning moms has doubled or tripled since the QEN has been released? No wonder you're in PL, you're pretty clueless.
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Nye Jaran
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:58:00 -
[817]
Edited by: Nye Jaran on 13/11/2009 16:04:18 Edited by: Nye Jaran on 13/11/2009 16:01:00
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
Originally by: Tinator
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451 i do wonder how many people whining about this change here actually have, in possession, a mothership right now?
probably almost all of them since obviously someone who doesn't intend to fly/already own one wouldn't care alot about this...
SO...ALL 1000 PEOPLE REPLYING TO THIS THREAD, OWN A MOM? REALLY? Did you even READ the QEN? I know reading isnt native to your people, but learn how to do it, and you'll see this change only affects ~400 people, you tool bucket
Since you're reposting your grossly inaccurate statement from another thread, I'll re-post my rebuttal from that same thread (with a little tweaked wording).
The data used by the QEN is based on a snapshot of data and does not account for any changes that have occurred recently nor does it appear to include any trending. Also, it does not appear to include how many SCs are in the cooker or have been built recently, how many SCs have been produced since the last snapshot was taken, and how many players have plans for flying a mom.
What you want is a basic trending report to perform some basic data analysis and extrapolation.
A more accurate determination of the numbers would be:
Count the number of ships currently fielded.
Count a small percentage (10%, for arguments sake) of all players who meet or exceed the requirements to board a SC and are in alliances with CSAAs
Look at snapshot over snapshot (apparently month over month) trending of 1 years worth of data for all non-CSAAs onlined alliance members and non-alliance players who have Moms. Extrapolate a reasonable number of these pilots based on the averaged trend figure (increase / decrease).
Add these up and you have a more realistic number of players directly affected. Sadly, it doesn't include the small percentage of players who are planning on flying a Mom and are early in their skill plan and will actually reach their goal.
Also, don't forget that the change doesn't just affect the SC pilots, if affects everyone who alongside them.
Sometimes, I really wish CCP had some sort of drilldown capable BI tool available to users for these kinds of things. Then againm that would require something better than monthly snapshots to get accurate data for proper BI.
TL;DR That's an inaccurate count that misses significant demographics. The change affects everyone who flies with Mom pilots and players who plan to get a Mom. Also, I'm anal as hell when it comes to data accuracy.
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Kleg Nighthawk
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:00:00 -
[818]
Edited by: Kleg Nighthawk on 13/11/2009 16:00:43
Originally by: Larkness yer well **** them im just gonna go play wow for awhile until they fix this **** - aleast i dont pay real money for my accounts or i'd be even more ****ed off at their apparent ignorance - its not their game its our game the people with active accounts who end up ultimately paying them their weekly cheque's
The fact that you have the ability to use in game mechanics to get the isk to play via PLEX is re reason that CCP dont listen to you, you might think EVE is just a game but to CCP it's a business, you are literaly just a number, or six of them in your case. they will do what ever they can/need to do to get more new players in that will need to pay with real money. If every body played with PLEX licences there would be no game.
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:05:00 -
[819]
Also, their pre-nerf sis version was frankly, overpowered. People think that lowering the cost will cause swarms of them to appear, but what if they had their pre-nerf versions released? Prices of supercarriers shot up 3-4b on speculation of this change, people started mass-producing them, being bought up very quickly on the sell orders forum.
Imagine a fleet of 'pre-nerf' supercarriers.
Each has 80,000,000+ EHP They all do 12,000+ DPS Immunity to e-war (can't break those spider tanks, ever) Can obliterate heavy interdictors with 20 drones each
How, exactly, would you kill a large group of supercarriers? Keep in mind that there are large numbers of them already in existance and they aren't all that great. A massive boost would GREATLY increase the amount being produced since demand would skyrocket.
So, say you had to kill a group of 20 pre-nerf supercarriers? Their combined pre-nerf DPS takes out a dreadnought in around 20 seconds. They have around 500,000 DPS tanked spider. You can't break their spider, ever, since they're immune to ewar.
You know what the counter to supercarriers would be? More supercarriers. Normal carriers/dreads get completely annihilated.
CCP probably realized that they were making a very, very bad move and decided to stop it before fleets of supercarriers became ridiculous.
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Dave PSI
Haendlergilde Gilde Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:05:00 -
[820]
I am already thinking about killing my mom with a dread alt. So i even get the insurance payout (before dominion) and a nice killmail. No good sign for your overpowered shipclass.
T R U S T shop: http://www.evetrust.com // Haendlergilde [HAE]
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Tinator
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:07:00 -
[821]
Originally by: The Internets Also, their pre-nerf sis version was frankly, overpowered. People think that lowering the cost will cause swarms of them to appear, but what if they had their pre-nerf versions released? Prices of supercarriers shot up 3-4b on speculation of this change, people started mass-producing them, being bought up very quickly on the sell orders forum.
Imagine a fleet of 'pre-nerf' supercarriers.
Each has 80,000,000+ EHP They all do 12,000+ DPS Immunity to e-war (can't break those spider tanks, ever) Can obliterate heavy interdictors with 20 drones each
How, exactly, would you kill a large group of supercarriers? Keep in mind that there are large numbers of them already in existance and they aren't all that great. A massive boost would GREATLY increase the amount being produced since demand would skyrocket.
So, say you had to kill a group of 20 pre-nerf supercarriers? Their combined pre-nerf DPS takes out a dreadnought in around 20 seconds. They have around 500,000 DPS tanked spider. You can't break their spider, ever, since they're immune to ewar.
You know what the counter to supercarriers would be? More supercarriers. Normal carriers/dreads get completely annihilated.
CCP probably realized that they were making a very, very bad move and decided to stop it before fleets of supercarriers became ridiculous.
So, now you just get more of them with less damage, since they are cheaper? Meaning way more spidertank...
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:07:00 -
[822]
Originally by: The Internets The 'magic number' the dev posted makes them effective against capitals but not smaller ships, I just don't know how though.
Yes well… we do know how the magic number works.
So no, not quite. The magic number makes them less effective against smaller ships, yes, but this is counteracted by the explosion velocity and -radius, which also makes them less effective against capitals.
So, either the numbers they posted are wrong, or they have changed the missile formula, or the DPS is less than stellar and with a sane battlefield setup, they are less capable at the anti-cap role than just about anything you'll encounter in a fleet (except maybe a normal carrier). It's a choice between them lying or being incompetent – neither option is particularly encouraging. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
ByFstugan
Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:08:00 -
[823]
Clearly people are very upset with this nerf of the drones in space - and I must say that it really takes away alot of coolness with this behemoths when they launch their angry swarm of drones/fighters. It really really shouldn't change for the pimpfactor alone :)
I must say that the HP-buff together with the reduced build-price is a long due change that I personally find really nice to see. I admire CCP's boldness in doing such changes - and I also hope for them to realize that the extra number of drones on SC's is something they shouldn't deprive us players. Especially not to those who payed many many billions extra from the price to come on their ships should need to see their ship both loose almost half their value and also loose half their teeths. It's one change to much in to short amount of time.
I'm now also really curious about seing some new dev-comment here to about how they are thinking in this topics - it's been silent on their front for a wihle and U must have come to some form of conclusion now or soon. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
hankey
Minmatar The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:09:00 -
[824]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
Originally by: Grath Telkin Not really sure i see the point in ever buying one of these, even at 5-6 billion, I'd rather just have 2 dread accounts, and enjoy flying the other ships that you get in the process of training a dread alt.
Also lol at the idiots saying you only lose 300 or so pilots if the supercap guys quit. Your probably looking at 3-5 accounts minimum each, for cyno alts, combat alts, money making alts, the mom/titan alt itself, and your also underestimating the number of these **** boxes flying around.
yeh because numbers based on the server DB are underestimations...even if its been a couple weeks since the QEN...do you really think the number of mom pilots owning moms has doubled or tripled since the QEN has been released? No wonder you're in PL, you're pretty clueless.
Not all pilots are sitting in their moms atm. There lots of CSMA filled with them in big alliance (look at this as huge parking lots). So they should better count all unpacked MS's - destroyed ones.
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:12:00 -
[825]
Originally by: The Internets You know what the counter to supercarriers would be? More supercarriers. Normal carriers/dreads get completely annihilated.
What is the counter to a single battleship? Moar battleships.. Can apply the same argument to every class ..
You don't counter a ship by nerfing it but introducing a new mechanics/ships - was done in past nicely when MS were overpowered gate huggers a HIC came into spotlight and problem was solved.
Also by killing (in past) one you easily compensate the loss of 10 dreads if you fight the ISK wars..
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Jazuz Krist
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:16:00 -
[826]
with all the people ticked off we dont have to worry about the blobs of them now, like how people are saying oh they are cheap so there will be more.
and if you look at the petition thread its got 279 signatures. and you should see the plethora of alts posting in it.
ccp is making the right decision and they know it, they are professional MMO developers with a successful MMO, they have made changes before which people reacted angrily too and have come out better for it. they know what is best for their baby not you.
you're crying like 300 children whose mom spanked them all at the same time.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:17:00 -
[827]
Originally by: The Internets Each has 80,000,000+ EHP They all do 12,000+ DPS Immunity to e-war (can't break those spider tanks, ever) Can obliterate heavy interdictors with 20 drones each
the first, second and fourth point you made are all patently false but whatever
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Dave PSI
Haendlergilde Gilde Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:22:00 -
[828]
Originally by: The Internets
So, say you had to kill a group of 20 pre-nerf supercarriers? Their combined pre-nerf DPS takes out a dreadnought in around 20 seconds. They have around 500,000 DPS tanked spider. You can't break their spider, ever, since they're immune to ewar.
You know what the counter to supercarriers would be? More supercarriers. Normal carriers/dreads get completely annihilated.
CCP probably realized that they were making a very, very bad move and decided to stop it before fleets of supercarriers became ridiculous.
The easiest way to counter Carriers & Moms is to destroy their drones, that could be done by every bs fleet, bomber squads, disco bs or sb carriers. I could remember "fights" sitting in my mom, unable to launch fighters, because they would have insta popped. It will be difficult to kill a good remote repping chain, but that wasn't touched by CCP, so their remote repping capabilities still stay thesame.
But in the fights i saw, supercaps only get attacked, if the fight is already won, and there are only the ones left, which couldn't get out in time, to save their ass.
T R U S T shop: http://www.evetrust.com // Haendlergilde [HAE]
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:24:00 -
[829]
Originally by: Jazuz Krist ccp is making the right decision and they know it, they are professional MMO developers with a successful MMO
[citation needed]
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:25:00 -
[830]
Originally by: CCP StevieSG Hello everyone. While we appreciate that this thread is generating quite a bit of feedback we would ask that your responses be polite and respectful. Please note that any posts which break the forum rules may result in a warning or ban. Thank you.
loooooooooooooooooooooool |
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Korizan
Red Mercury Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:25:00 -
[831]
Objective : Make MOM's Captial Killers. (Concept I will let the experts figure out the details)
1) Carriers right now do a fairly good job of remote repping, they are not invulnerable which is good. 2) Dreads right now are used for POS and captial killing (Problem) they were supposed to be POS killers. 3) Some people have stated that spider tanked mom's are pretty much immune to everything. (Problem) SO I propose the problem is just not mom's part of the problem as others have said is the dreads ability to be effective against capitals.
Personnally the whole idea of Jack of all trades master of none is garbage when you talk a captial. Capitals should be good @ what they are designed for and nothing else.
ie. 1) Carriers a remote rep and support ships they do that fairly well right now. 2) dreads need to lose some of there abilities as capital killers (not sure how to do this without killing there POS killing abilites) 3) xCarriers should lose there remote repping and there DPS should go up through the roof for killing capitals. Let the carriers support them and remote rep, a carrier can be taken down. Let the MOM come in a chew into any captial around.
I suppose you could leave dreads alone but the means MOM's would have to do some incredible damage, and I believe the amount of damage you would have to give a MOM in-order to keep the ratio right with the current dread is too high.
I am sure a lot of people will scream @ this right now but it eppears everyone is so ****ed right now they are beyond rational discussion anyways.
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Lord Power
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:31:00 -
[832]
Well after reading 27 pages of posts I think I can shed some light on why, and if CCP cares to comment that would be great!.
One word explains it all "IT" Information Technology - Might I mind you this is only opinions /speculation as it was after the tournament at fanfest and we were drinking heavly.
Back in May/June CCP sent out an internal memo to the dev's requesting a FIX for the lag problem, and they needed to create a new PATCH/Edition to promote new subs and meet advertising deadlines. (Again Speculation) But some job layoff's from the Customer Support Team, AKA your petitions, and also on forum moderation and other various areas.
CCP's Main Expenses / Ways to Elimite them
1. Costs starting Jan 1, 2010 to Limelight networks - AKA internet backbone - Going UP 2. The obvious need for new blade servers from IBM due to lag appartent... Costs range fro 10k USD up ---- 3. Reduce # of kickbacks/Incentives to Var's such as Shattered Crystal and add game Time to eve store. 4. Layoff's 5. Reduced Money in subscriptions due to banning of accounts from Missions isk sellers and RTM trading out of game. 6. BTW anyone that went to fanfest this year can agree it was way lower key than last year. 7.... The mightly list goes on so I wil get to the point in the following lines.
So the solutions that came up were the following:
1. Create a New Project/Expansion Codename Dominion to meet advertising deadlines quotas. 2. Reduce Lag and not have to purchase more blade servers from IBM by eliminating TOWERS/TITANS and DRONES, space junk... anything that requires excess of grid loading on the database. 3. Create an incentvie for new players by elimitating BLOB battles with titans and MS so new players have incentive to keep accounts active and play. 4. REDUCE the amount of code in Dominion, thus elminitating the amount of server side lag to each NODE. 5. Avoid releasing as many dev blogs until tests could be conducted on sisi to confirm these goals were meet.
So in short its about MONEY!! and creating an incentive for new players. AKA the uber cool ratting and mining upgrades in the system. So when you drink with CCP you get a general idea of what is going on and it makes fanfest much more fun.... I hope CCP doesnt go along with the MS nerf as it was a fun part of the game, but lets see how deep CCP's pockets go, and what we get vs what new players get.... Again Speculation and bar talk unless CCP wants to elaborate on the matter.
LP
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:38:00 -
[833]
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 13/11/2009 16:40:45
Originally by: Jazuz Krist with all the people ticked off we dont have to worry about the blobs of them now, like how people are saying oh they are cheap so there will be more.
There will either be more of them or none, since other ships can do everything better. So the same invulnerable spidertank fantasy or a useless ship. So either nothing is different from the "overpowered" version or things remain the same as today.
Quote: and if you look at the petition thread its got 279 signatures. and you should see the plethora of alts posting in it.
The real test comes with the devblog about it and you are trapped in a supercap and need an alt to keep it safe. Surprisingly those alts are posting. Not to mention an idea should be judged on its merits, so a small affected playerbase is no excuse to tolerate bad design decisions. I care personally, since the same guy will be in charge of changing things that do affect me directly. So CCP needs to have a pretty solid reason why they changed SC instead of just making a new ship, or such a change needs to be opposed.
Quote: ccp is making the right decision and they know it, they are professional MMO developers with a successful MMO, they have made changes before which people reacted angrily too and have come out better for it. they know what is best for their baby not you.
you're crying like 300 children whose mom spanked them all at the same time.
No they don't actually know what is best for their product. The history of changes show that clearly. Some changes have been good, but some have failed to reach their intended goal miserably and most of them were predicted in advance by the players. Some of those professional game development ideas are just features and ideas that have been suggested to them by players years before they actually implemented them. They also fought against such game destroying changes as a skillqueue for years.
CCP may have a good reason for doing it, but people have a hard time seing it, since the first explanation they gave didn't really hold water. They also can't be that professional, since this whole issue is largely a result of their own silence and lack of communication with the players. Not to mention a professional company would have created a new ship for a new role instead of making radical changes to an existing ship at the last minute and causing massive needless grief and loss to their long time players and supporters.
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:39:00 -
[834]
I think the more annoying part of all this as has already been stated a couple of times. A fair bit of time went into the testing of these things on Singularity, feedback came in, and pilots were left impressed. Motherships now had a reason to actually show up on the battlefield instead of hanging just outside POS-shields. Consequently, like titans, you could actually have a dramatic effect on the outcome of a battle however you would need to be sticking that 17-20 billion isk right out there where it could get popped. Then pilots discover the changes, not via a post from Devs or GMs or anything like that, but by getting confused when the supercarrier no longer seems to be working right. Finding out in such a way is not good PR at all, and is rarely going to produce a sweet and seemly reaction from the pilots themselves.
Furthermore, 6-8 bill is not a price I could possibly imagine on a Super-Capital. That is barely double the cost of a Jump Freighter. A super capital should be a risk that will carry a costly bill when it goes poof which with the update they are bound to do. Not to mention of course that this supercapital requires a standard coffin character dedicated to flying it 23/7 (unless you have some extremely trusted individuals in your corp/alliance, and as Mittens/Others have proven multiple times, that trust may often be misplaced).
All this of course is without taking into account the economic effect on those who produce the ships, have bought them recently (even prior to the buffs being announced) and for those who are long-term holders. Currently I can't see it being a ship I would willingly sacrifice a character to fly, when I could simply stick him/her in a dread in order to get the same/better/more consistent dps, along with the added bonus of insurance.
Hopefully CCP have a very good reason for doing this, but the manner with which they have gone about getting the information out to the pilots is lacking and does not inspire confidence.
Arca
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Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:48:00 -
[835]
Edited by: Lynn de''Marco on 13/11/2009 16:48:26 Sure i'm dissapointed but I can live with my mothership going from being a useless trophy ship pre-dominion to being a useless trophy ship post-dominion.
The thing that bothers me is my useless trophy ship is having it's value cut in half.
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:48:00 -
[836]
Makes sense. Solid decisions business-wise. Do a damn Pareto, see where 80% of the problems lie, fix em. Seems they did just that.
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holyone
Gallente Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:55:00 -
[837]
Or they'll buff them again, then get the Machiavellan effect. ;)
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Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:55:00 -
[838]
For those just yapping change is good, you are missing the big issue.
CCP blindsided everyone with this.
Cost being reduced from 16 bill - 5 bill.
-------- Economic impact--------- As of right now, no one is buying mother ships on tq, and the people who spent 16 billion to produce them are now stuck with a ship they cant sell for its value. They have to sell it at a 10 bill isk loss.
Also what about the players who spent 18 bill to buy one then get the officer mods to help protect them. Their ship is worthless.
You are also going to see a loss of cyno alt accounts and super cap alts.
Overall this is a huge loss
-------- Battlefield impact -----------
even with 15 fighters, a well fitted dread still can tank them easily, especially if rigged properly and in siege mode. Whats the point of flying a mothership or a carrier if its just going to be dread fights? Oh and dont say RR and logistics, cause if you have ever been in a massive capital fight, when 50 dreads lock you at the same time, you dont live, no amount of RR can stop this.
With this change, carriers and super carriers just become expensive pos haulers and jump haulers.
Plus with no clone vat or triage module, there is no point to even use them as logistics. they just become an expensive carrier.
----------WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE -----
CCP you NEED to make the bonues +3 drones per level you NEED to bring back the clone vat you NEED to allow the use of triage
you NEED to keep the cost the same, not only are super capital producers losing money 2 weeks before the patch, but you just screwed over all the people who bought one recently.
----------------- so unless ccp is planning on reimbursing all the pilots who bought one, or the people who produce them, WHICH THEY WONT! yeah, this will be the nerf that removes most of the people from eve, it not only hurts the pilots who fly them it also hurts the miners, the ship builders who produce them and the retailers who sell them.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:59:00 -
[839]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 13/11/2009 17:00:24
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Nozh: recipe for unscrewing SCs AND making your DCUs better:
return prices to pre-nozh levels keep +1 drone per lvl add 20% drone dmg/hp per lvl make DCUs give +1 drone (of all types) AND +7.5-10% fighter/FB dmg only per lvl (dmg bonus stacking penalized) take pre-nozh compact torp stats and reduce torp damage 10-15%.
With a 10% reduction in base F/B dps, you'd see approx. 23.2%/38.3% increase over pre-nozh f/b SC with 2/3 DCUs (@ +7.5%), respectively. Given the huge implications of using up 2,3 or more high slots for more damage, I'd say this is certainly not OP. Making the added damage bonus on DCUs for fighters/FBs only removes any real concern of dcu boosted sentry spam subcap rapage.
P.S. they will also be useful on carriers for...whenever people actually use carriers for dps.
Quoting myself because I still think it's a good idea. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
kaplowwwwwwwwwwwww
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:00:00 -
[840]
why do we need this. they were altered to a fun level now you have busted them down to cheaper but more crap than before.
No one wants a cheap crap ship. If we did we would all fly burst's and navitas. instead we all fly punishers ect.
basicaly no one who has one wants this change. no one that would get one wants this change.
now if u leave it as before with the fb+hp and even leave the clone vat bay. then we are happy.
AND IF you feel there is a lack of a mid range ship between carriers and ms reskin the carriers and make t2 versions with the stats u propose for the ms.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:08:00 -
[841]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
you NEED to bring back the clone vat you NEED to allow the use of triage
no and no. the removal of both of these were good ideas.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
ByFstugan
Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:16:00 -
[842]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Cost being reduced from 16 bill - 5 bill.
This is not correct numbers. The mineral-cost was about 10-11 billions at todays mineral-price including CCVB - and after dominion they plan on changing that to 5-6 billions. U can't use what they go for on sales when comparing prices in production. Unless they get nerfed to hard from what CCP started with I'm sure they will still sell at around 10 billions. At least about that to start with - even if they would drop later. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Jazuz Krist
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:18:00 -
[843]
dont see all the rich people here ranting about the unfair advantage that tech 2 bpos give them, which players in the game cannot obtain.
you paid for your ms at a time when it was worth what it was valued otherwise u would not have paid for it.
to cry that a mothership you bought years ago is now only worth 1/3 the price is stupid. since eve is very much like real life which you all so love to remind everyone of, nothing you bought years ago could still have the same value.
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holyone
Gallente Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:23:00 -
[844]
Originally by: Jazuz Krist dont see all the rich people here ranting about the unfair advantage that tech 2 bpos give them, which players in the game cannot obtain.
you paid for your ms at a time when it was worth what it was valued otherwise u would not have paid for it.
to cry that a mothership you bought years ago is now only worth 1/3 the price is stupid. since eve is very much like real life which you all so love to remind everyone of, nothing you bought years ago could still have the same value.
The problem is not the three year old ones, its the ones that were just built or still in construction that might finish just as Dominion is released. Stop being so narrowsighted, please. Thanks.
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tx eight
Minmatar Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:30:00 -
[845]
Originally by: holyone Stop being so narrowsighted, please. Thanks.
Stop feeding the trolls, please. Thank you.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:34:00 -
[846]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 13/11/2009 17:34:17
Originally by: Del Girl
If the 500 Supercap pilots quit, so what? They would just count the cash from 3000 noobs joining.
If you can be sure of one thing, it's that supercaps pilots are all multiaccount owners, and longstanding players, aka very good recurring revenue, the kind of customers that usually get perks from business, and not rough anal rape with a nerfbat. It would take a lot more than "quitting after 7 months on average" noobs to make up for the financial loss.
There is no business case for this whole drama. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Rage Trade
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:34:00 -
[847]
All you guys that spent countless hours in SISI testing and giving feedback must be feeling pretty stupid right now lol.
And has ever the DEVs are here in the first couple of pages trying to justify the crap they have done and when the players throw that crap in their faces they just run and hide.
Dominion has of now promises to be the end of Eve has an ever growing MMO.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:40:00 -
[848]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451 i do wonder how many people whining about this change here actually have, in possession, a mothership right now?
I don't, don't plan to, but will fight stupidity everytime I can. And everyone, even the three month old running L2 in empire in his cruiser, got a long term interest in the game balance, because the price of a Caracal actually depend on the price of a mom, since they are built from the same resources. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:42:00 -
[849]
I also like how in "SuperCarriers and you: why CCP?" Weirdfish links a more appropriate thread to "express our support for or against" but it's the thread Zymgurgist locked. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:51:00 -
[850]
you know whats next dont you... Carriers getting 5 drones only to balance the Supercarriers and Dreads doing half damage to balance carriers getting 5 drones :p |
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Jazuz Krist
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:53:00 -
[851]
Originally by: holyone
Originally by: Jazuz Krist dont see all the rich people here ranting about the unfair advantage that tech 2 bpos give them, which players in the game cannot obtain.
you paid for your ms at a time when it was worth what it was valued otherwise u would not have paid for it.
to cry that a mothership you bought years ago is now only worth 1/3 the price is stupid. since eve is very much like real life which you all so love to remind everyone of, nothing you bought years ago could still have the same value.
The problem is not the three year old ones, its the ones that were just built or still in construction that might finish just as Dominion is released. Stop being so narrowsighted, please. Thanks.
again, people took a gamble on information on a test server which was stated in bold underlined colored writing that it WILL CHANGE. So those people that started building/buying to get the solopwnmobile are out of luck.
and to the guy who said that CCP does not know what they are doing... name one error ccp made that failure cascaded their mmo. It shows steady growth over the last couple years particularly in 2006 when warp to 0 was introduced.
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Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:53:00 -
[852]
Originally by: gnome blood
If you skip the anti-capital role? Are you serious? CCP decided it¦s the new role for the ship and you conveniently skip it?
supercarriers are terrible at the anti-capital role as currently stands. Furthermore, the anti-capital role is generally useful about once a month for a standard 0.0 allies. Why would anyone fly this ship, other than to be bait?
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:54:00 -
[853]
CCP, please stop nerfing drone numbers, it is getting beyond the joke, you have been trying to do that since RMR and done nothing but annoy people and "fix" lag with no noticeable effect.
The Light in the Darkness
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Bosjathfort
Dragon's Rage E-P-O-C-H
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:54:00 -
[854]
This is an insult and a face slap to all the MS owners, who have spent months if not year(s) of their playing time and hard work.
I'm just wondering why you CCP devs treat your royal customers so cheaply... Sigh...
(>'-')> <('-'<) ^('-')^ v('-')v <('-'<) ^('-')^ (>'-')>
t(^-^)> |
Max Teranous
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:55:00 -
[855]
Protip Nozh, wind this rubbish in and go talk to Abathur, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to capitals, you blatently do not.
Max
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Mrs Dent
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:56:00 -
[856]
Originally by: Kraken Kill you know whats next dont you... Carriers getting 5 drones only to balance the Supercarriers and Dreads doing half damage to balance carriers getting 5 drones :p
lol, Dont even joke mate, nothing would suprise me now.
I also loved the part where Zymurgist called the opinions of 300+ of there paying customers "Spam" on the petition thread.
CCPs customer service is getting more laughable by the day.
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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:59:00 -
[857]
Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Nozh Game Designer CCP Games |
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:02:00 -
[858]
Edited by: SolarKnight on 13/11/2009 18:05:30
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
So 15 drones now? what is so wrong with 20?
No one uses drone control units, so the chances of seeing a 25 drone MS is pretty much nil The Light in the Darkness
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ChronoSphere
Sturmgrenadier Inc Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:02:00 -
[859]
Is the explosion radius of the torps remaining the same? -------------- ~Vice Admiral, Executive Officer Sturmgrenadier, Inc. Join Sturmgrenadier today! |
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:03:00 -
[860]
/me humps CCP Nozh <3
woah... it listened.... loool. its a start i guess
wts momship alt o_0
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:06:00 -
[861]
Holy ****.
Not sure if good idea. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:06:00 -
[862]
Nozh:
docking = SC spam fleets as not being able to dock was about the only thing stopping this from happening at lower price explosion rad = 3500 = not shooting dreads for crap and carriers STILL **** F/Bs with smarties. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Max Teranous
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:06:00 -
[863]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
And you completely ignore the explosion velocity issue the fighter bombers have as envisioned? Half damage in dreads for a anti-capital ship is lolworthy. Srsly, stop mucking about with changes that'll massively impact high level play with little thought.
Max
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sg3s
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:07:00 -
[864]
Once again, whining seems to have actually helped.... *sigh*
Although I do agree previous changes were somewhat over the top.
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Arzal
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:14:00 -
[865]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
well at least you do care about our loss.
But ill be honest, id rather they cost more like they do now and not 6billion where they are still slightly rare.
docking in stations? stupid imo, they will become lowsec wtfpawn mobiles. They are super capitals after all.
also why 15 fighters? why not 20? though that doesn't bother me so much.
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Shigsy
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:14:00 -
[866]
Hahaha, CCP are so clueless
Join "C&P" ingame! |
Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:14:00 -
[867]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
I have a better idea
go back to the original design
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:14:00 -
[868]
Hey since the Supercarriers are now basicly considered "nearly normal" Caps could you decrease their mass by about 20-25% (for WH use )
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Tebis
BlackTalon Mining Corp G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:14:00 -
[869]
can we remove "super" from their name now then?
All these are now is a tier 2 carrier .. the balancing decisions are up to y'all but it just doesn't seem like a super capital if you can dock it
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tx eight
Minmatar Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:15:00 -
[870]
Haha how funny.
Now maybe, dear Nozh, you will explain why those changes appeared out of nowhere?
The community, you know, is well aware that Sisi is a test server and what it means.
The community, you know, helped a lot, at no other than CCP's request, in testing all the changes that were silently dropped this week. So I'm sure the community has a moral right to at least an explanation of this quite questionable conduct.
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Jana Tanaka
Caldari Tanaka Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:15:00 -
[871]
Edited by: Jana Tanaka on 13/11/2009 18:17:48
Originally by: The Internets Also, their pre-nerf sis version was frankly, overpowered. People think that lowering the cost will cause swarms of them to appear, but what if they had their pre-nerf versions released? Prices of supercarriers shot up 3-4b on speculation of this change, people started mass-producing them, being bought up very quickly on the sell orders forum.
Imagine a fleet of 'pre-nerf' supercarriers.
Each has 80,000,000+ EHP They all do 12,000+ DPS Immunity to e-war (can't break those spider tanks, ever) Can obliterate heavy interdictors with 20 drones each
How, exactly, would you kill a large group of supercarriers? Keep in mind that there are large numbers of them already in existance and they aren't all that great. A massive boost would GREATLY increase the amount being produced since demand would skyrocket.
So, say you had to kill a group of 20 pre-nerf supercarriers? Their combined pre-nerf DPS takes out a dreadnought in around 20 seconds. They have around 500,000 DPS tanked spider. You can't break their spider, ever, since they're immune to ewar.
You know what the counter to supercarriers would be? More supercarriers. Normal carriers/dreads get completely annihilated.
CCP probably realized that they were making a very, very bad move and decided to stop it before fleets of supercarriers became ridiculous.
I wrote a very very lengthy scenario as reply to show how wrong you are. Then I realized that a few simple number should illustrate it:
20 dead space fitted Motherships = > 150 faction fitted Dreads with T2 rigs.
150 Revelations = 750 Berserker II = 257 dps * 133 = 34.181 DPS. 20 Motherships = 400 Mallei = 400 * 26.500 EHP = 10.600.000 EHP
Time to Live for the Mallei = 10.600.000 / 34.181 = 310 seconds
The pre-nerf Super Carrier Fleet in your example and based on your numbers, would be luckily to destroy a couple of dozen dreads before their slow and painful death would follow.
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Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:17:00 -
[872]
This is going from bad to worse.
Roll back to the original new design spec for 'Super Carriers' and the new Titans.
Everyone was happy with those.
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Rewt ed
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:17:00 -
[873]
that's smart, make it so a ship with the effective hit points of a large tower can now play station games.
now we're back to the solo super carrier pwn mobile but now station camping.
63,000 bugs in the code 63,000 bugs, get one whacked with service pack, 63,005 bugs in the code.
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Edmund Khan
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:18:00 -
[874]
3 per level, no docking
preety please :)
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Kerdrak
Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:18:00 -
[875]
Edited by: Kerdrak on 13/11/2009 18:19:54
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Just not nerf the building cost please, if you think there is a need for a 5b carrier, just make a new ship. Put your designers at work, but don't make us feel like stupid for building/buying motherships now. ________________________________________
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:19:00 -
[876]
Edited by: fairimear on 13/11/2009 18:23:44
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
NOZH
Seriously. just put it back the way it was and leave it like that for a year and see how it goes. EVERY 1 paying 16-18 bill for a sc is happy. every 1 who has one was happy. every 1 who was going to get was happy.
IF you put this in at 6-8 bill + docking. you will have like probably 5x more ships in a year than would be. you then will have undocking spam. and issues with their size and bumping. You will have people fielding like 17 fb's owning carriers/dreads/jump freighter. then redocking.
YOU WILL THEN BE FORCED TO LOOK AT THESE SHIPS AGAIN AND AGAIN ANNOY PEOPLE WITH A NERF.
the previous change made them better and made them useable again. but at the same time if they people field hundreads + new sov they will eventually lose more than can replace.
the previous change made a good ship + allowed for the game to find its own balance of the ships getting used or not. It may have resulted in a few high isk battles seeing 10-20 supercarriers or 12 titans dieing but eventually this would of evened out to adjust for new numbers of them. build cost. risk ect.
now u just making a future broken game mechanic to address a possible issue that probably wnt happen any way.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:19:00 -
[877]
The bottom line is that there either tier 3 carriers, and should be heavily nerfed to refect the fact, (OR WELL, HOW ABOUT MAKING A NEW SHIP CLASS INSTEAD??) or the end game content that most pilots consider them to be.
____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Angelus X
Reikoku IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:20:00 -
[878]
Edited by: Angelus X on 13/11/2009 18:24:28
Originally by: CCP Nozh HFurthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
Unless you found a way to tie this in with a reduced cost for new skills, or modules that mothership pilots may end up using now or in the future, i'm strongly against this idea.
People knew from the start the cost of the mothership was going down. Nobody was complaining then because they assumed their mothership was about to become a pwnmobile. Sure 6 bil instead of what, 9-12bil it was supposed to be is a bigger reduction than most people were expected or told, but suddenly they should get that ISK back because CCP are bending over after a mistake on their own part? As an alliance mate of mine says; "they gonna reimburse me for teh cnr i payed a bil for 3 years ago?" or how about reimbursing people who own falcon BPOs since the falcon got nerfed? or any of the other hundreds of nerfs that have occured over the years. I think not
For those people who have invested in a mothership since the first information was leaked about a motehrship boost.. sorry, but suck it up! Over the years a f**kton of people have invested ISK based on dev blogs, suggestions, rumors, of things to change in new releases, and plenty have been burned before, you aren't the first. (Not to mention the fact a lot of MS have been built by taking advantage of the fact Sov 4 still exists, perhaps the risk of waiting till after dominion compared to the risk of loosing your MS in build was one that should have been examined closer..)
So, changes, yes! better changes than at the start of this thread, yes!, reimbursement, No!
My 0.02$
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Herar Domain
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:20:00 -
[879]
I think this is a dissatisfied compromise.What is wrong with keeping the old stats and keeping old prices or even rise the price of the ships.What is wrong about 20 Drones? Reduce the fighter bomber damage a bit more and give us moms pilot our beloved 20 drones back.Come on u have to admit that the 20 drones were always the epic thing for a moms. But this cookie at least does not make me cry it just ****es me now a bit off.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:20:00 -
[880]
Edited by: The Mittani on 13/11/2009 18:27:06
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Once again, who are you, and why are you being allowed to diddle with Abathur's excellent work on supercapitals? There's no need for this nonsense.
The chaos unleashed by docking motherships (which still do less dps than a dread, even with your post) after the hp buff is enormous. That you even consider such a change at all is galling, because I truly think it's impossible for you to have considered the ramifications of this change in a balanced way - especially since the Moros just ate a dps nerf not a month ago precisely because of the chaos it could cause while playing docking games.
Hiding behind 'guys guys it's just the test server' doesn't shield you from the fact that your prior post wiped out 40% of market value in one stroke. Most other CCP devs have at least a modi****of consideration in their posting.
Back off what had been a solid, settled project with lots of player feedback. Go work on network code fixes or one of the other billion things broken in this game that need attention.
Peace out~
edit: m o d i c u m is censored? wow, all those threatening lawyer words
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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|
Khefron
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:21:00 -
[881]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
since you don't mention explosion radius, I'm assuming that it's still over 3000m, meaning that fighter bombers will be doing 1/2 dps against dreadnaughts in siege.
Is that how you intend for them to work?
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:21:00 -
[882]
If they are being nerfed to hell, at least let them be used in high sec.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:22:00 -
[883]
1. I am happy that you are actually listening to us.
2. What the hell? You do realise that making the things dockable and much less expensive will give you a massive headache in 3-4 months. MOM-squads that'll pwnzor everything in their path is all I have to say about this.
3. The problem of not hitting Capitals for full damage still remains, which doesn't make sense.
4. An explanation why the former version of the Supercarriers were in need of tweeking. Because this version now is the sure road to Supercarriers Online whereas before i didn't see this issue.
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DOARota
Gallente BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:22:00 -
[884]
Originally by: Commander Ogir Edited by: Commander Ogir on 13/11/2009 18:12:54
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
3 per level, no dock!
No questions! No flames! Everyone happy!
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:22:00 -
[885]
Also, while I 100% support docking in stations, I agree that docking at *every* station would open up pandoras box of docking games and griefing.
The docking should be an upgrade at 00 stations, and I would say 5 billion isk per station would be reasonable.
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Fogy
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:23:00 -
[886]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Go away. This isnt even thought through.
This changes will make the super carriers, a tire 2 carrier insted of a supercapitol ship (docking rights). It doesnt adress the issue with the increased explosion radius issue. EXPLOSION VELOCITY WONT HELP US WHEN SHOOTING STATIONAIRY(sieged) DREADS FOR ~50% of the potential DPS. As capital ship killers (acording to previous dev blogs testing events and so on) dreads will be our primary targets. It will help against moving carriers, but we'd still be at a maximum ~50% of our damage potential even when they arent moving.
WAKE UP!
Norwegian Wood, for hire!
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:23:00 -
[887]
at ~6b in cost, the ability to dock and 25-50m ehp, these things will get nerfed to **** later
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:24:00 -
[888]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
At list you could hotdrop a ***got ganking people at a station undock with a Moros or a carrier and pop it before he could redock. Not too realistic with a supercarrier EHP, nor is bumping it out of range.
You just created the new unbeatable griefmobile, congratulation. Is your main in "the united"?
-- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:24:00 -
[889]
My opinions on the latest changes (as an owner of a supercarrier)
Docking - No no no no no, i know this would make my life a lot easier but supercarrier docking games will be rubbish.
2 drones per level - better but i stil would like 3 :)
reimbursement - no, i'd still rather have them worth their current build cost even if CCP were to add the difference in value to my wallet. supercap blobs will be horrible.
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Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:26:00 -
[890]
Well from the proposed explosion radius / velocity numbers from the Cit torps / cruise I think the only conclusion I can come to is that the devs don't actually understand the consequences of their design decisions and the missile mechanics. Its fair therefore to assume that FBs will still wont be doing full damage to Caps (just like Capital missile weps won't).
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Nye Jaran
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:26:00 -
[891]
Nozh, since these can dock now and are effectively Tier 2 Carriers, can you also change the requirement that they can only be built in CSAAs? That change would be hugely beneficial to all lowsec dwelling corps.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:26:00 -
[892]
Quote: Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
Are you looking at dropping the BPO prices? If so are you going to reimburse the difference?
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Linas IV
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:27:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Nye Jaran Nozh, since these can dock now and are effectively Tier 2 Carriers, can you also change the requirement that they can only be built in CSAAs? That change would be hugely beneficial to all lowsec dwelling corps.
QFT
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RuriHoshino
Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:29:00 -
[894]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer This is going from bad to worse.
Roll back to the original new design spec for 'Super Carriers' and the new Titans.
Everyone was happy with those.
Quoting for great justice.
Honestly. You propose new changes, put them on the test server, everyone tests them and adds feedback, and you come out with good changes to the game that satisfied the majority of the people involved.
Then some moppet scraps all that and throws in a bunch of random changes that no one had any input on and are almost universally decried as being stupid and unfocused. Why even pretend to care anymore? Dockable motherships is a ****ing terrible idea, anyone who actually played the game would be able to tell you that.
Maybe you should just stop.
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:31:00 -
[895]
Thank you for actually taking the time to respond, and you have taken a lot of the complaints into consideration. However, by allowing them to dock you will have essentially created a ship-bound darwinism that will lead to Carriers getting the finger due to the supercarrier being a more expensive, yet much more "profitable" ship to fly now by comparison. Bearing in mind that the main difference here is that the carrier is able to go into Triage which is great in the right scenario but in numbers is not needed (see the Clarion Call 2: Pantheon vid).
It is a great idea for sure, but by allowing supercarriers to dock you are just going to breed standard carriers out of existence except for moving rigged ships around.
There were some other nice compromises here posted by players, I'm not sure if they have been taken into consideration or not, but the one that appealed the most was simply increasing the bandwidth of the fighter bombers so that you would only be able to field 10 (or 15) at max skills. Perhaps by including a "XX% in fighter-bomber bandwidth per level" or something like that.
Arca
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tx eight
Minmatar Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:32:00 -
[896]
Originally by: RuriHoshino Maybe you should just stop.
Agreeing with Rote, haha, history repeating, in what, just 4 days.
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Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:32:00 -
[897]
Quote: The chaos unleashed by docking motherships (which still do less dps than a dread, even with your post) after the hp buff is enormous. That you even consider such a change at all is galling, because I truly think it's impossible for you to have considered the ramifications of this change in a balanced way - especially since the Moros just ate a dps nerf not a month ago precisely because of the chaos it could cause while playing docking games.
This
You have just given a ship with a good few million HP the ability to sit on an undock point aggroing stuff to kingdom come(assuming it has a large radius)without any real risk
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:32:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Soleil Fournier
-10 points for rolling out this change without warning or explaination +20 points for listening and implementing changes on feedback.
I don't think you perceive how the ability for them to dock along with the reduced cost will ruin lowsec. They could as well remove their ability to move and dedicate them to station camping. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:33:00 -
[899]
On one hand, given CCP's recent behavior, I am relieved to see even a compromise. I may still buy a MS now.
On the other hand, The original model for MS on singularity was still better. Unfortunately I don't think CCP will realize this until howls of "MS blobbing" and "MS docking games" are heard all across the forums.
Colonies and Capitals |
ByFstugan
Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:33:00 -
[900]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 13/11/2009 18:34:02
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
I'm in whole very satisfied with what we see atm, especially since U made them able to dock.
I'd like to suggest one thing that could make the things finalized in my opinion and knowledge though:
- Make the Drone Control Unit add 2 drones/fighters per module on SC's to not make the nerf from 3 to 2 drones/fighters per level take to hard (for example "Can deploy 2 additional Fighters per level and Drone Control Unit" and U get it in same bonus). I think it's in line with it's bonuses in general compared to carriers that it has higher boost from this otherwise pretty useless module.
Thx for response and listening. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:34:00 -
[901]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Nozh thanks for being open minded enough to make compromises for the playerbase. I really think I speak for most players when I say that the cost is a issue. Its great that you are willing to reimburse existing owners. The real problem though is that with such a low cost these will be proliferated to such point that blob warfare is going to take on a all new more worse than ever face. Literally I had a discssion the other day about self destructing titans and using the isk to purchase a mothership blob. My alliance has hundreads of pilots who have the skills to fly a supercarrier. The only thing that was stopping them is the cost. 5-6 + fittings .... lol I sell my vindicator bhaalghorn and some faction stuff I had laying around and have the isk for it.
0.0 war will become so bad it wont be funny. 3 months from now you will see alliances defending systems with a supercarrier blob that cant be ewar'd and there spider tank cant be broke. God forbid if they have a cyno jammer up because no attacker has a chance in hell.
CCP Dominion was supposed to change eve 0.0 landscape & warfare. Now its just more of the same I wish you could see how this will all go. ______________________________
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:35:00 -
[902]
i'm liking that you listened, but i dont think allowing them to dock is a good idea.. a few reasons.
1 - MS's are a commodity because few people can afford them. 2 - MS's are a commodity because it requires the commitment of an alt char to fly it. (which makes CCP money) 3 - obvious issues of something with the EHP of a medium control tower being able to dock.
imho. NO DOCKING FOR MOMSHIPS. EVER.
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:35:00 -
[903]
Disagree with docking, remove that now, or risk supercarriers camping every low sec station in empire, with your nerfed dps dreads unable to do anything about it. The Light in the Darkness
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Murixo
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:35:00 -
[904]
Just roll them back to how they were before, everyone was happy! And whilst docking abilities would make life a lot easier, docking games would suck.
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:35:00 -
[905]
Normally all this hyperbole would be unjustified... ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Angelus X
Reikoku IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:37:00 -
[906]
A station upgrade in 0.0 space that allows certain super capitals to 'dock' isn't that bad an idea.
That *could* work. You'd obviously only be able to dock your mothership at friendly stations in 0.0, so you'd hardly be able to play 'dock/undock' games everywhere.
The upgrade could be made prohibatively expensive, such that the vast majority of alliances only have one such system, or you could make a hard limit on the number of stations per region that can have this upgrade. That would make for interesting conflicts, as rather than fighting over just normal space, high-end moons, etc. you could have situations where one of the focus points for fighting is the only stations in a 0.0 region capable of being able to dock motherships.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:37:00 -
[907]
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 13/11/2009 18:42:31 2 per level is a great improvement, but the docking ability will make for some loltastic docking games in lowsec.
(protip: supercaps should only be dockable in a 0.0 outpost with a VERY VERY EXPENSIVE upgrade bolted on to it)
Edit: ahahahaha not only did me and a Reikoku guy make identical comments about motherships, but we posted at the exact same time. Holy christ we are living in Bizarro EVE.
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hankey
Minmatar The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:37:00 -
[908]
Edited by: hankey on 13/11/2009 18:38:41 Nozh, if you really going to implement cost reduction for this ship (i assume they will require half less cap components), PLEASE DO NOT FORGET TO CUT MANUFACTURING TIME also.
just my 2c
Quote:
(protip: supercaps should only be dockable in a 0.0 outpost with a VERY VERY EXPENSIVE upgrade bolted on to it)
Support this idea
-- Keeper
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Buxaroo
Gallente The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:38:00 -
[909]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
OK, much much better. I can live with these changes, especially the reimbursement part for the decline in construction cost. Thanks for this, this was the first time I have actually been emo about any changes to the game
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Cain Negestor
Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:38:00 -
[910]
Originally by: Soleil Fournier
I think that this is a reasonable compromise, thank you for listening to us and implementing these changes. Also that explosion velocity change was absolutely critical so bravo. Being able to dock for the sacrifice of 5 fighters/bombers is a great change and I support it.
I do hope you're serious about reimbursing the mom pilots for the loss in isk, I was furious to hear that we'd be screwed over by the build cost changes and am very happy to hear that at least in someway I'll be compensated.
-10 points for rolling out this change without warning or explaination +20 points for listening and implementing changes on feedback.
Thanks
My thoughts, more or less. Its a change i can live with, provided i do get compensation in one way or another.
As for docking games, please bear in mind not all SCs are aeons with 28 EHP. Hels can be killed by 4 DDs. So, while your at it make Slaves not affect Supercaps, and reduce the big EHP difference between armor and shieldtanked SCs.
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DeviloftheHell
Caldari RaaFharaX
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:38:00 -
[911]
give the mineral difference to the owners to that station where is their clone and problem solved
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:38:00 -
[912]
3 per level, explosion radius back to what it was, undockable and build cost ~12b
thanks in advance
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:39:00 -
[913]
Free CCP Abathur ______
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the plague
Scoopex Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:39:00 -
[914]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.-Nozh
Oh my goodness! This thread is really going to go places now!!! I just wanted to get in here and post before the whole forum catches explodes in green flame.
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:40:00 -
[915]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc Normally all this hyperbole would be unjustified...
I'm pretty sure your hyperbole still is.
Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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Kerdrak
Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:40:00 -
[916]
Just make a new tier 2 carrier and leave the current motherships as they are. Tier 1 Carrier: the current carriers Tier 2 Carrier: Fighter Bomber/Anti capital spec. ship Tier 3 Carrier: Motherships
- New ships = GOOD - Nerfing ships = BAD ________________________________________
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Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:40:00 -
[917]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Ok we are getting there Nozh, thank you to the devs for listening to all our hate and massive forum spam.
point of feed back,
is it possible to make drones sort of like learning skills, maybe do 2.5 drones per level, that means at carrier lvl 4 you get 12 drones instead of 8? or a 2.25 so you get +9 drones?
anyway thats just an idea, but........
put the clone vat back in and give a radius boost to smart bombs and i will be happy.
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Kraken Law
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:41:00 -
[918]
Originally by: Dramaticus 3 per level, explosion radius back to what it was, undockable and build cost ~12b
thanks in advance
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Bonny Lee
Caldari The Guardian Agency Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:41:00 -
[919]
I hope you are aware of the massive Balance-Problem you are going to create if you let SCs dock at stations... For sure there will be 30-50 SC-Blob-Fleets and if you haven¦t thaught about how to kill those ECW-Immune-Monsterblobs you should start to think about now.
Perhaps the first buff was to huge and your nerf was going to far but this will ruin Fleet-Warfare in less then a year.
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Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:41:00 -
[920]
also..... just a heads up to you CCP guys.
if you let supercarriers dock and presumably let the pilot get out of them. then there is no reason for me to keep my dedicated supercarrier char account subscribed as my mains can also fly supercarriers.
i'm sure i'm not the only one.
|
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:42:00 -
[921]
I have just had a corpie point this out with reference to the docking games:
[18:31:11] XXXX > i just realized... in dominion you need to destroy outposts to conquer sov (if there is one in the system) ... moms can dock there.... welcome to epic docking games
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:43:00 -
[922]
Originally by: Lynn de'Marco also..... just a heads up to you CCP guys.
if you let supercarriers dock and presumably let the pilot get out of them. then there is no reason for me to keep my dedicated supercarrier char account subscribed as my mains can also fly supercarriers.
i'm sure i'm not the only one.
You say this like it's a GOOD game design decision to require people to have multiple alts to play a game.
Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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tx eight
Minmatar Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:44:00 -
[923]
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi Free CCP Abathur
No, really. Free him.
|
Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:45:00 -
[924]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Stil fail... Why not go back to what somwone who actaly used to fly the ships didd?
|
The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:45:00 -
[925]
Edited by: The Mittani on 13/11/2009 18:46:48 we'll just park our however many supercarriers on the first outpost anyone tries to take in delve or querious, it'll be pretty stress-free since they can throw ecm bursts, are immune to ewar and our various enemies will have to chew through 30m+ ehp to pop one before they redock
we'll use the refund money you're giving us to make up for your catastrophic previous post to buy more docking 30m ehp bricks
cool thanks, bye
edit: anyone praising nozh for listening to 'reason' is little better than a quisling, this change is worse than his first one, and he shouldn't be adjusting /anything/ from the original abathur version of supercapitals
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Shigsy
Ignition.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:45:00 -
[926]
Star wars galaxies... who needs vets amirite?
Join "C&P" ingame! |
fuze
Gallente Quam Singulari Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:45:00 -
[927]
Looks like someone passed the failsauce again.
|
LoveKebab
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:45:00 -
[928]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
ill tell u what u can do, u can give me back 18bil and take the ms away... those changes are ******ed beyond anything i've ever imagined ... dockable supercapitals haha
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Phreeze
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:45:00 -
[929]
Way to go dip****s.
Keep pulling the SOE card.
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:46:00 -
[930]
Originally by: Arcanim Al'Seif I have just had a corpie point this out with reference to the docking games:
[18:31:11] XXXX > i just realized... in dominion you need to destroy outposts to conquer sov (if there is one in the system) ... moms can dock there.... welcome to epic docking games
thanks for this, until you specifically mentioned outposts I don't think anyone understood what the other 500 people who posted before you meant about "docking games"
Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
|
|
Angelus X
Reikoku IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:46:00 -
[931]
Originally by: Arcanim Al'Seif I have just had a corpie point this out with reference to the docking games:
[18:31:11] XXXX > i just realized... in dominion you need to destroy outposts to conquer sov (if there is one in the system) ... moms can dock there.... welcome to epic docking games
This.. is a good point, I take back what I posted last, any kind of docking = awful, unless you remove the ability for MS to play dock/undock games.
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:46:00 -
[932]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Realy, Never post agane
+3 per level no docking 10+bill isk
infact don't even change them from the stats off TQ tbo as you have no clue what your on about. ---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
Captain Plumb
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:46:00 -
[933]
This is not a good decision. Letting SC's dock opens the way for even more docking games, the very thing CCP was trying to fix by nerfing the Moros' drone damage bonus.
Roll the SC's back to the first iteration you had for them on SiSi and everyone is happy.
|
Vladameir
Caldari Phantom Squad
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:46:00 -
[934]
Let me preface again by saying im sitting in a wyvern right now. I tried the old changes and IMHO they worked great.. Dont change it but if you do:
BIGGEST GRIPE - FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, Please refund the difference in parts for people owning one or building one right now. Dont be lazy and flat out refuse the difference.. Run a script of people who have one on their character then give them items redeemed. Even if its ME0 of their ship It would be much more fair. For the ones building refund the difference to the capital ship hangar.
Docking - NONONO.. it would be nice.. but again station docking games big no no with the HP of this size of ship.
Drones/F/FB - 20 was best.. It really gave this ship a place. 15 is a sad plea to the community to accept some sort of changes you are wanting to do..
for the most part I totally agree with Lynn's post
Originally by: Lynn de'Marco My opinions on the latest changes (as an owner of a supercarrier)
Docking - No no no no no, i know this would make my life a lot easier but supercarrier docking games will be rubbish.
2 drones per level - better but i stil would like 3
Nozh - the idea of a mobile anti capital platform is an interesting one.. Just don't do it to the current Super Carriers.. Create a new class of carrier for it.. 2-3bil for the ship that can field 10 drones with much less HP that can dock is a much better and balanced Idea. Call it a difference class of carrier.. make the current carriers logistics carriers then make the new one some form of anti capital carrier but without the logistics capabilities.
reimbursement - no, i'd still rather have them worth their current build cost even if CCP were to add the difference in value to my wallet. supercap blobs will be horrible.
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Sternin Mantur
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:46:00 -
[935]
What part of "everyone was happy with the first changes" are you missing? What's the problem?
Now seriously, step down as game designer. I'm sure there are other things you can do ok, but this is not one of them.
Fly safe.
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:47:00 -
[936]
Originally by: fuze Looks like someone passed the failsauce again.
looks like they spilled it on your keyboard lol
Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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Arronicus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:47:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Angelus X Edited by: Angelus X on 13/11/2009 18:24:28
Originally by: CCP Nozh HFurthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
Unless you found a way to tie this in with a reduced cost for new skills, or modules that mothership pilots may end up using now or in the future, i'm strongly against this idea.
People knew from the start the cost of the mothership was going down. Nobody was complaining then because they assumed their mothership was about to become a pwnmobile. Sure 6 bil instead of what, 9-12bil it was supposed to be is a bigger reduction than most people were expected or told, but suddenly they should get that ISK back because CCP are bending over after a mistake on their own part? As an alliance mate of mine says; "they gonna reimburse me for teh cnr i payed a bil for 3 years ago?" or how about reimbursing people who own falcon BPOs since the falcon got nerfed? or any of the other hundreds of nerfs that have occured over the years. I think not
For those people who have invested in a mothership since the first information was leaked about a motehrship boost.. sorry, but suck it up! Over the years a f**kton of people have invested ISK based on dev blogs, suggestions, rumors, of things to change in new releases, and plenty have been burned before, you aren't the first. (Not to mention the fact a lot of MS have been built by taking advantage of the fact Sov 4 still exists, perhaps the risk of waiting till after dominion compared to the risk of loosing your MS in build was one that should have been examined closer..)
So, changes, yes! better changes than at the start of this thread, yes!, reimbursement, No!
My 0.02$
Best Post. Its true, people knew what they are in for, this has happened many times before with slightly less expensive ships or modules. To reimburse this one little group of rich people, would be just silly.
3 per level, no docking! /signed
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:48:00 -
[938]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 13/11/2009 18:49:56
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
You say this like it's a GOOD game design decision to require people to have multiple alts to play a game.
It's not, nonetheless it was the only thing holding back proliferation.
If they really want them to be tier 3 carriers, there'll have to nerf the **** out of the current incarnation so that they have base stats similar to villina carriers... And leave a pile of components and minerals at the pilots clone base as compensation.
Also
Removing stations from having anything whatsoever to do with sov would be a good move.
____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Kerdrak
Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:48:00 -
[939]
I WANT AN ANGEL CARTEL CARRIER. ________________________________________
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:48:00 -
[940]
holy **** lolz, docking super carriers.... oh dear god....
|
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MAX MEXX
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:51:00 -
[941]
This was ccp's idea:
"Hey lett's make them realy bad again. But first lets make them realy realy crap, and after the forum whorage we can add a bitt more dps and make them happy "
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Angelus X
Reikoku IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:51:00 -
[942]
Originally by: Vladameir Please refund the difference in parts for people owning one or building one right now.
Why should people be refunded for taking an investment risk and failing? The claim for reimbursement is almost as ridiculous as Nozh's postings.
Stick the MS price back up to 10 bil+ No Docking. Fighter-bomber damage more comparable to the original changes. Calm seething masses of angry MS pilots. Success!
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:54:00 -
[943]
Originally by: tx eight
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi Free CCP Abathur
No, really. Free him.
pretty please? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 18:55:00 -
[944]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
While these changes do make the supercarrier better, it only makes the problem itself worse. I refer you to my previous post.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1212602&page=23#690
By 1) Reimbursing existing supercapital owners, 2) Keeping the reduction in buildcost and 3) Making supercarriers able to dock, you not only add the equivalent of several trillions worth of ISK to the eve economy, much of which will be used to build additional supercarriers, you also make supercarriers even MORE accessible to the playerbase, which further increases the mass proliferation that will occur.
I know that my corporation alone could easily field somewhere between 50 and 100 supercarriers within a year if these changes go into effect, and we'll have to if we want to remain a power in 0.0. My alliance could field literally hundreds of these things. When hundreds of these things are deployed on a single battlefield, just like carriers and dreadnoughts are fielded today, how do you think 0.0 warfare will look like? Do you think any kind of subcapital force will stand a chance? What about even normal capitals?
Yes, docking is absolutely the worst thing that could've been suggested. These make ANYONE able to own a supercarrier, as opposed to the relatively few players that have the ability to dedicate an account for this.
The higher pricepoint of motherships, along with the no-docking part ensures that they are STILL a very exclusive item. Keep them that way.
This will only result in breaking 0.0, which will require another nerf to these things in the future, once again pushing them into oblivion. This is inevitable.
Revert the latest iteration to the changes that Noah and Abathur proposed at fanfest. They were hailed as a balanced and fair boost to the supercapitals while still not being too overpowered. --
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Chagaline
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:04:00 -
[945]
Originally by: Dirk Culliford
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi Free CCP Abathur
quoting
I think I speak on the behalf of most of the 0.0 playerbase when I say that you shouldn't dabble in stuff that you don't understand Nozh, and when you get out please take these hideous mom changes with you
indeed.
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kapten sortebil
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:05:00 -
[946]
Originally by: MAX MEXX This was ccp's idea:
"Hey lett's make them realy bad again. But first lets make them realy realy crap, and after the forum whorage we can add a bitt more dps and make them happy "
Win ^^
And also.
Free CCP Abathur
|
Kieselguhr Kid
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:05:00 -
[947]
Edited by: Kieselguhr Kid on 13/11/2009 19:05:22
Originally by: Moctobot docking games with a 30m hp 6000dps ship that costs as much as a jump freighter...
Ownership of Delve apparently confers a dev-inspired immunity to ever having it taken away except through disbanding the alliance.
(I'm in GF btw)
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Jalum Krayal
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:05:00 -
[948]
Originally by: Virtuozzo
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
Now that is setting a wonderful precedent
I had to pick my jaw up off the floor when I read that.
And please no dock/undock games with motherships. |
The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:05:00 -
[949]
i decided to ~kick it up a notch~ so i sent a broadcast re: this thread on gf jabber, so between gs, our allies, and all the enemy spies, i think all of nullsec knows about dis lil thread
hth!
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Vladameir
Caldari Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:06:00 -
[950]
Edited by: Vladameir on 13/11/2009 19:08:58
Quote: As for docking games, please bear in mind not all SCs are aeons with 28 EHP. Hels can be killed by 4 DDs. So, while your at it make Slaves not affect Supercaps, and reduce the big EHP difference between armor and shieldtanked SCs.
^^^^ Slaves on Supercaps are SOOO overpowered with the new changes.. Crystals dont work on capitals.. so why do slaves..
Logistics Carrier - Current Carrier
Strike Carrier - Fighterbomber 2-4bil what nozh has in mind.. no logistics
Super Carrier - Abathur's changes to the MOMS.. KEEP THE OLD ONES
WIN!!!
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Sir JoJo
Minmatar x13
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:08:00 -
[951]
30mill ehp and docking is BAD, the cost reduce doesent bother me, but docking NAH, im not even gonna try reinforce a outpost having a blob of those sitting arround it, u need 50 titans to brake that sgit,
Back at thniking ccp, and now plzz this time THINK HARD RLY HARD before poasting again!
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particle9
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:09:00 -
[952]
i like the docking idea but is it possible for you to adjust the super carrier docking rate? either by making it so a super carrier has to wait an hour to re-dock at the same station or perhaps limiting it to docking once a day?
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Saul Reaver
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:11:00 -
[953]
Originally by: Commander Ogir Edited by: Commander Ogir on 13/11/2009 18:12:54
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
3 per level, no dock!
No questions! No flames! Everyone happy!
/signed
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Chagaline
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:11:00 -
[954]
7 months in noob corp rules=) sorry for the ***** thingie, that was uncalled for. i am an emo kid
Well, just because the falcon and vaga was nerfed, ppl didnt stop flying em. I would imagine ppl who has the bpos can build the exact same number as before and sell em at more or less same price, actually after dom, prices on t2 ships will go up again. also, that hit what - 10 ppl in the game? this hits ALOT more. I just fail to see how you compare that to a instant 10 bill lose. Im sorry i just dont agree.
and yes part of my whine*/pov comes from the fact i just bought one=)
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:12:00 -
[955]
Originally by: Angelus X
I can certainly sympathise with their anger but that doesn't mean they deserve 'compensation' anymore than the owner of a t2 BPO, the ship of which has just been nerfed and which will result in a massive ISK loss for them.
CCP has never EVER reduced the build cost of ANY ITEM by this much on a ship of this size. the prices arent changing because of the ships capability, they are crashing because the build cost is to be nuked.
Invention was something that needed to happen because the game was growing, and there werent enough t2 items to go around. regardless of thier price.
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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ByFstugan
Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:12:00 -
[956]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 13/11/2009 19:12:39 I forgot to mention in my last message here... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1212602&page=30#877
...that I also think SC's should get an active tank bonus, like 2x Capital Repair bonus. Plus what I said in that message and we are good to go imo ^^ _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Zareph
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:12:00 -
[957]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
A docking game 10 fighter base skill carrier. or 15 with 5 DCUs.
What's super about this ? Might as well make carriers have fighter bombers too they're just as useless.
Why do you have motherships so much? one of the most underused ships in the game was just about to become a force to reckon with in the game and be something the players would want to actually field more often and you remove it from the game?
While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. |
Jana Tanaka
Caldari Tanaka Industries Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:13:00 -
[958]
Originally by: particle9 i like the docking idea but is it possible for you to adjust the super carrier docking rate? either by making it so a super carrier has to wait an hour to re-dock at the same station or perhaps limiting it to docking once a day?
^^ At least this tbh. Else a new meme will emerge: "Because of the SC."
Also it could be prudent to consider making Fighter Bombers unassignable, with the lower cost and docking ability, one does not need to be the oracle of delphi to forsee the effects...
|
CynoNet Two
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:14:00 -
[959]
Hahahahahah
So not content with breaking both supercaps (and throwing in subtle regular capital nerfs) you're now destroying the brand new sov system - by making it impossible to lose an outpost if an alliance can muster a few supercaps?
This is an entirely new level of terrible.
|
Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:14:00 -
[960]
I approve of these new changes. I bought the ship a little month before the changes were published, so the changes are an improvement for me, and most other SC pilots out there, and since we will get a reimbursement, i think i can relax again lol..
But in all seriousness, people need to realize, that 12k dps from a SC with 30mill EHP was a bit too much, although i agree that we should still have the +3 drones per level, but then reduce FB¦s damage a bit instead.
The fact that they can now dock is well, silly. This will make them non supercaps, and i dont really think anyone really wan¦ts this. However, if it opens up for a new type of super capital, im all for it. And to the people who fear the undocking games, what will change from carriers to SC¦s? I mean, you can¦t usually not even kill a well tanked carrier before it can dock, and if you fear it will be able to bbq stuff and just dock up again, then don¦t play with it..
CCP, please stick to this! Lets see how it works in practice, and then tweak them, if they need any tweaks at all..
|
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Moctobot
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:15:00 -
[961]
'relax guys all you need is half a dozen titans to superlaser a mothership - i am sure that they can all cyno in, lock the mothership and fire their weapons with the 30 second aggression timer which prevents docking'
- a person who has never played eve online by ccp games
gas thread pretend it never happened ban ccp nozh thanks in advance
|
Neily
The Circle Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:15:00 -
[962]
Edited by: Neily on 13/11/2009 19:15:11
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
I suggest that you guys READ VERY GOOD all the problems that are being complain here before putting posts like this.
|
Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:15:00 -
[963]
Originally by: Vladameir
^^^^ Slaves on Supercaps are SOOO overpowered with the new changes.. Crystals dont work on capitals.. so why do slaves..
ok, nerf slaves and i'll be expecting a reimbursement for my high grade set please.
also can my armor regen for free like shields do?
perhaps introduce a new implant which increases shield hp whilst increasing sheild regen time (to avoid wtfuber passive regens).
|
Zenst
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:15:00 -
[964]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Firstly thank you for listerning and showing that you care, much respect gained there.
The whole docking of motherships is fine though I do believe what needs to be looked into sometime soon is a aggresion dock timer that relates to the size of the ship, with the current timer being the minimum and the base being a BS as is. This will appease alot of new expliots with moms at stations and also address the whole carriers at stations affair as well being able to buffer out the agro and dock up.
The changes to bombers is a step back in the right direction, but it still on the whole seems a step down after loosing so much already on mom's. I have the following suggestions:
Add the ability (outside skills and ship bonus's) to effect fighters and bombers as normal drones can be. IE have some rigs and damage mods, after all these are there primary weapons and as such are alone in lacking the ability to increase damage or indeed be effected by modules in anyway compared to turrets, launchers; Even mining lasers have damage modules so to speak. This also sits in the mantra of reducing the number of drones still and alows people to be creative, add dynamics or it will be a case of I can speed tank them, no problem. OH WOW he had like 5 bomber/fighter tracking comps and as many speed comps and the damage was WOW, shame he had no tank at all but he sure did supprise us. Thats whats EVE is realy about, fitting personalities if you wish to place a name on that aspect, but variation driven by players. Instead of everything all the same and standard, no fun being a drone.
If you look at those angles then you can see a way to not only appease all the gripes by giving them the options but also address alot of issues in a simple and elegant maner. In laymens terms, less work involved and achiving sooooo much more than the single problem solution.
I think that approach to this would address pretty much every issue raised here and ever could be raised, along with issues that ain't even on the table yet.
Thank you for your time in conciderring this CCP. I now feel you can care (thanks GM Nozh).
PS whats the MOM's insurace deals?
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Kiri Serrensun
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:15:00 -
[965]
Remember when smartbombing motherships on lowsec gates were unassailable apart from lucky bumping? Remember people complaining about how lame it was?
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L'Artest
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:22:00 -
[966]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Soleil Fournier
-10 points for rolling out this change without warning or explaination +20 points for listening and implementing changes on feedback.
I don't think you perceive how the ability for them to dock along with the reduced cost will ruin lowsec. They could as well remove their ability to move and dedicate them to station camping.
I don't think you realize that lowsec is already ruined and awful
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Angelus X
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:23:00 -
[967]
Edited by: Angelus X on 13/11/2009 19:26:30 Edited by: Angelus X on 13/11/2009 19:24:44
Originally by: RoCkEt X CCP has never EVER reduced the build cost of ANY ITEM by this much on a ship of this size. the prices arent changing because of the ships capability, they are crashing because the build cost is to be nuked.
Invention was something that needed to happen because the game was growing, and there werent enough t2 items to go around. regardless of thier price.
That doesn't mean those people didn't lose out on a HUGE amount of ISK due to changes CCP made. Which is essentially what is happening here.
Originally by: Chagaline 7 months in noob corp rules=) sorry for the ***** thingie, that was uncalled for. i am an emo kid
Well, just because the falcon and vaga was nerfed, ppl didnt stop flying em. I would imagine ppl who has the bpos can build the exact same number as before and sell em at more or less same price, actually after dom, prices on t2 ships will go up again. also, that hit what - 10 ppl in the game? this hits ALOT more. I just fail to see how you compare that to a instant 10 bill lose. Im sorry i just dont agree.
I agree with you only ~20 something people (or groups) were effected by each seperate thing like a ship nerf, a module nerf or anything else that destroyed the profits from for a particular t2 item (hai invention 0/), but if you add all the people up who've made between moderate to significant losses due to changes made by CCP, it's A LOT of people, and as far as I know none have ever been compensated for that.
What I don't like the idea of Nozah suggesting as a way of placating the anger of justified mothership pilots over what are essentially awful changes. I would much rather see the mothership price pushed back up and the real problems here addressed rather than mediocre changes, a massive price drop that sees everyone and their mothers in a 'super carrier' by early next year, and a f**kton of isk reimbursed to hundreds and hundreds of pilots, not all necessarily deserved of it, but all the same feeds back into the already inflated Eve economy.
Pallidum explains my opinion a lot better...
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema While these changes do make the supercarrier better, it only makes the problem itself worse. I refer you to my previous post.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1212602&page=23#690
By 1) Reimbursing existing supercapital owners, 2) Keeping the reduction in buildcost and 3) Making supercarriers able to dock, you not only add the equivalent of several trillions worth of ISK to the eve economy, much of which will be used to build additional supercarriers, you also make supercarriers even MORE accessible to the playerbase, which further increases the mass proliferation that will occur.
I know that my corporation alone could easily field somewhere between 50 and 100 supercarriers within a year if these changes go into effect, and we'll have to if we want to remain a power in 0.0. My alliance could field literally hundreds of these things. When hundreds of these things are deployed on a single battlefield, just like carriers and dreadnoughts are fielded today, how do you think 0.0 warfare will look like? Do you think any kind of subcapital force will stand a chance? What about even normal capitals?
Yes, docking is absolutely the worst thing that could've been suggested. These make ANYONE able to own a supercarrier, as opposed to the relatively few players that have the ability to dedicate an account for this.
The higher pricepoint of motherships, along with the no-docking part ensures that they are STILL a very exclusive item. Keep them that way.
This will only result in breaking 0.0, which will require another nerf to these things in the future, once again pushing them into oblivion. This is inevitable.
Revert the latest iteration to the changes that Noah and Abathur proposed at fanfest. They were hailed as a balanced and fair boost to the supercapitals while still not being too overpo
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Nestor X85
Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:23:00 -
[968]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Ive always wanted to see a 30m EHP ship play docking games :)
thank you CCP for acting first thinking later :)
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:24:00 -
[969]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 13/11/2009 19:25:00 Maybe this is just step 2 out of a 5 post process from CCP Nozh that takes Moms from uber end game content, to reasonably balanced tier 3 carriers with mothership models... and huge isk compensations to the effected pilots...
At least I hope so. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Shigsy
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:24:00 -
[970]
Edited by: Shigsy on 13/11/2009 19:25:27 You dont even need to spider tank to play station games.
Dock in 0.0 station Free repair ???? More docking games!
Join "C&P" ingame! |
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Mynas Atoch
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:25:00 -
[971]
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi Free CCP Abathur
oh good grief - does Nozh even play this game?
I'm starting to feel sorry for the kid . he is SO out of his depth. Its like watching a slow motion traffic accident.
Someone save him. And save us from him while you are at it.
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:25:00 -
[972]
The docking thing is good, but give them an hour long redock. I own a Hel, and while I love the idea of being able to dock even I agree that undock games could be a real problem with them. Second, give them the ability to field 3 fighters per level or 1-2 fighter bombers. That'll cap their max DPS against other caps while not crippling their ability to engage smaller ships. Hell, just give fighter bombers a high bandwidth and it'll have the same effect.
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grandprix
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:26:00 -
[973]
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 13/11/2009 18:46:48 we'll just park our however many supercarriers on the first outpost anyone tries to take in delve or querious, it'll be pretty stress-free since they can throw ecm bursts, are immune to ewar and our various enemies will have to chew through 30m+ ehp to pop one before they redock
^^ This If one of the major stated purposes of Dominion is to make null sec more variable, dynamic, and competitive, this change would unequivocally undermine all those intentions simultaneously.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:26:00 -
[974]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi Free CCP Abathur
oh good grief - does Nozh even play this game?
I'm starting to feel sorry for the kid . he is SO out of his depth. Its like watching a slow motion traffic accident.
Someone save him. And save us from him while you are at it.
Seriouspost: someone make us some "Free Abathur" sigs.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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CynoNet Two
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:26:00 -
[975]
http://cgi.ebay.com/Eve-online-manual-with-free-Erebus-Titan-Pilot_W0QQitemZ180431549468QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a028ef41c
Hey Nozh you should grab this and learn to play supercaps
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MacArvid
Gallente M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:28:00 -
[976]
ffs see the positive things instead of all negative things.
Its friday!
Inhale......drink......and again.
o0k
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ropnes
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:29:00 -
[977]
WHY MAKE CHANGES TO ABATHUR'S DESIGN?!
Seriously? Where's this stuff coming from? You decided they can dock? On a whim?
GTFO
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Nyx STeeLGamers
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:29:00 -
[978]
Thanks for listening. Please do reimburse pre-dominion mothership pilots. Regards.
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:29:00 -
[979]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 13/11/2009 19:31:16
Originally by: grandprix
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 13/11/2009 18:46:48 we'll just park our however many supercarriers on the first outpost anyone tries to take in delve or querious, it'll be pretty stress-free since they can throw ecm bursts, are immune to ewar and our various enemies will have to chew through 30m+ ehp to pop one before they redock
^^ This If one of the major stated purposes of Dominion is to make null sec more variable, dynamic, and competitive, this change would unequivocally undermine all those intentions simultaneously.
It's funny that they're nerfing the dps of dreads on top of this also.(apart from the Rev which now has weapons with greater damage mods than hybrids) ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:30:00 -
[980]
Edited by: Mahke on 13/11/2009 19:35:48 Oh, and the massively overpowered for cost insurable mothership problem will be made even worse with reimbursement because with insurance + reimbursing people for lowered value you'll have given people able to pilot them isk to replace them many times over in the rare circumstances that they will actually die.
Not to mention people weren't reimbursed for speed nerf, RIG CHANGES (rigged small ships value change by fiat almost exactly like this, just spread over more people so less whines), trit respawn increase, etc. Why should this be different because supercarrier pilots whined louder?
Also, what are you going to do about people who bought them cheap since announcement// people who sold them before this and are going to uber-rage even worse than you're seeing now? What about people having them in build? How will you tell who to actually send the reimbursement to? It'll be chaos and fail.
And adding 4tril in minerals or pure isk will imbalance the economy whichever you put it in.
Bloody terrible all around (although really a minor problem compared to the insurable supercarrier fleets that will soon dominate the game if this goes through)
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Uzume Ame
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:32:00 -
[981]
Woah, horrible: - Go play docking games with a ship capable of millions of EHP, basically you are invulnerable unless someone drops a fleet of 150 dreads on you and they better bump you fast or you can still dock. - You can lose it for 2 bill. insurance, making it a relativelly easy kill.
Meanhwhile, compact torps still horribad against CAPITALS, so how are these thingies, with destructable weapon systems (fighters or FB) supposed to fight effectivelly against other capitals.
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Ne0tr0n
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:34:00 -
[982]
Edited by: Ne0tr0n on 13/11/2009 19:35:26 Edited by: Ne0tr0n on 13/11/2009 19:34:45
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
this is not acceptable!!!
1. low-sec??? hello??? 2. what about ppl who ordered SC'S (like me) that are still beeing in build and will finish AFTER dominions release??? whats your reimbursment plan on that??? 3. tbh wtf is this "new" change? its like more stupid then the total hell death nerf like it is now on sisi!!!
CHANGE SC'S BACK TO THE STATE THEY WHERE BEFORE THE NERF ON SISI WITH 3 DRONES PER LVL AND NO DOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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iP0D
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:35:00 -
[983]
Originally by: ropnes WHY MAKE CHANGES TO ABATHUR'S DESIGN?!
I so misread that.
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BraveLttl Toaster
BulletProof Monks Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:36:00 -
[984]
If they can dock, does that also mean that they can be built in stations?
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Giacomo Carissimi
Igneus Auctorita
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:36:00 -
[985]
please fire CCP Nozh.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:37:00 -
[986]
Edited by: Mahke on 13/11/2009 19:37:53
Originally by: Giacomo Carissimi please fire CCP Nozh.
Please fire whoever came up with this change.
No need to shoot the messenger.
edit: unless CCP is just trolling all of us, in which case, darn successful troll.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:37:00 -
[987]
FREE ABATHUR ______________________________
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:38:00 -
[988]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 19:37:48 Take one rebalance. Add 300 whining MOM pilots. Result:
1) HP boosted, ewar immune, unkillable Dock/Undock MOMs..... 2) Reimbursement president set.
SKUNK
(o)
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Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:38:00 -
[989]
FREE ABATHUR
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Hickock
Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:39:00 -
[990]
dock in non npc stations only
makes sense --------------
Visit http://extremepredators.com/ for more information. |
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Demagnon
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:39:00 -
[991]
Thank you for posting, but you are still missing the point.
The initial changes to Supercarriers were fine. In other words, you HAD it right. OK, so tinker a bit with fighterbombers (and fighterbombers only; please stop trying to fix fighterbombers by redoing the entire ship class to accommodate them) so that they do not ruin conventional warfare, but a supercapital should have its presence felt.
Supercarriers should be more than a giant DPS-sink. They SHOULD do more DPS than dreadnoughts; they SHOULD be special. They SHOULD be superior to carriers AND dreadnoughts in some form or another, be this form damage or logistical ability. Well, you chose damage by introducing the fighterbombers; so stick with it. Supercarriers are inferior to carriers in logistical ability without triage, which is fine, by the way. (I do support leaving out triage since otherwise the tremendous hit points would make balancing the ship nearly impossible; I am not so sure about leaving out the clone vat bay however, as I believe that those modules are part of what makes a supercapital "super" in terms of giving homage to the scale of the ship as a huge mobile platform -- supercarriers do still have a huge ship bay after all.)
You should NOT be able to dock them. To make that work, you would need to seriously rework the hit points of the hull, and that is not what we want -- the hull hit points change is what makes them viable to use. (You should, however, look into making it so that bubbles are ineffective toward targets inside of a POS forcefield such that CSMAs are more viable without sovereignty 4, but this can come later.)
Also, making us choose between fighterbombers and fighters is akin to a supercarrier giving up most of its anti-BS ability. (Again, I am happy with this.) So in a sense you already choose between some form of defensive measure when choosing which drones to carry. I do not support forcing this choice to be undergone in the high slots.
You are already making it so that the hulls should naturally become more of a rarity over time. (In fact it is my opinion that a good deal of the sovereignty changes started out with removing sov. 4 for this very reason to begin with.) These newest changes appear to be geared towards shrinking the gap between supercarriers and carriers, and I am very much against this.
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Mankell Grenze
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:40:00 -
[992]
Originally by: CynoNet Two http://xxxxx/Eve-online-manual-with-free-Erebus-Titan-Pilot_W0QQitemZ180431549468QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a028ef41c
Hey Nozh you should grab this and learn to play supercaps
easily the best post EVER.
Free abathur.
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Ne0tr0n
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:40:00 -
[993]
Originally by: Giacomo Carissimi please fire CCP Nozh.
this tbh
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:40:00 -
[994]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 19:37:48 Take one rebalance. add 1 dumb CCP dev. Result:
1. complete ****
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Elektrea
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:43:00 -
[995]
Originally by: CynoNet Two http://cgi.ebay.com/Eve-online-manual-with-free-Erebus-Titan-Pilot_W0QQitemZ180431549468QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a028ef41c
Hey Nozh you should grab this and learn to play supercaps
----------
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:44:00 -
[996]
First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:46:00 -
[997]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
/This ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Del Girl
Shade. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:46:00 -
[998]
Originally by: Giacomo Carissimi please fire CCP Nozh.
Dont want to see someone fired, too harsh! Just needs re-educating, much easier and nicer!
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Serena Ku
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:46:00 -
[999]
Docking multi-million EHP monsters
Just no.
However I'm very pleased CCP listened and attempting to fix it, it would be simpler if you changed it back to the way Abathur had it.
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Trina Forrest
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:49:00 -
[1000]
CCP I hop your reading this I really do:
I have a long time paid time investment in this game, I also did with world of warcraft. Blizzard started with the ******ed nerf sticks and I dropped their product for yours.
First off fire who ever got the idea, and thought it was a good one, to start nerfing moms two F'in weeks before you release the patch.
Then fire the next group of people whou thought reimbursement would be a good idea... great now that you've trimmed out the complete and utter failures in your company I would suggest putting moms and titans back to the way they were and leave it.
bottom line is basically that... If this nerf stays I will be deactivating all 10 of my accounts and uninstalling your product because I believe I shouldnt have to play a game that is in part being developed by mentally handicapped personel.
Ive trained long and hard for capitals and now that titans will be just as useless as Moms I should either be given my 2 years of training back in cash or given a new character with reallocated skill points in ships that dont get nerfed every 15 minutes by a down syndrome kid with a key board.
I fly caldari...nerfed....dreads...nerfed....moms...nerfed...50 days off titan....oooo again nerfed
Not a troll post.... disapointment perhaps
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|
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:51:00 -
[1001]
Edited by: Mahke on 13/11/2009 19:51:27 In unrelated patch--fail news since you're reading this CCP, according to MD the new, worse-than dysprosium bottleneck that is technetium just hit 34k isk/unit ingame.
A week or two ago it was at 3.
A few months from now if you do nothing it will be at 300.
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:53:00 -
[1002]
The problem is not the docking, it's the docking PLUS the reduced build costs.
Since these are combat ships, they'll only be used in fights maybe a few times a year, IF your alliance is even at war! The rest of that time the pilot is stuck in a pos unable to do ANYTHING. That's just bad gameplay and bad mechanics.
I believe the build costs should return to their original state that they are currently on TQ. There seems to be no reason to reduce the build costs...all that does is make this ship available to more people, which means supercapital blobbing. This is bad.
There's only two real solutions when it comes to docking, assuming the build costs do not get reduced:
A) Allow the ships to dock in upgraded outposts. B) Don't allow the ships to dock, but give them abilities outside of combat, such as portals, logistical benefits, etc
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Raidal
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:56:00 -
[1003]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
This one
|
Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:00:00 -
[1004]
Originally by: Trina Forrest CCP I hop your reading this I really do:
I have a long time paid time investment in this game, I also did with world of warcraft. Blizzard started with the ******ed nerf sticks and I dropped their product for yours.
First off fire who ever got the idea, and thought it was a good one, to start nerfing moms two F'in weeks before you release the patch.
Then fire the next group of people whou thought reimbursement would be a good idea... great now that you've trimmed out the complete and utter failures in your company I would suggest putting moms and titans back to the way they were and leave it.
bottom line is basically that... If this nerf stays I will be deactivating all 10 of my accounts and uninstalling your product because I believe I shouldnt have to play a game that is in part being developed by mentally handicapped personel.
Ive trained long and hard for capitals and now that titans will be just as useless as Moms I should either be given my 2 years of training back in cash or given a new character with reallocated skill points in ships that dont get nerfed every 15 minutes by a down syndrome kid with a key board.
I fly caldari...nerfed....dreads...nerfed....moms...nerfed...50 days off titan....oooo again nerfed
Not a troll post.... disapointment perhaps
Can i have your stuff? The stuff that is not broken because of massive tear flooding?
kthxbi
|
Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:01:00 -
[1005]
Originally by: The Mittani Seriouspost: someone make us some "Free Abathur" sigs.
|
Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:01:00 -
[1006]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
/support
|
Dratic
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:02:00 -
[1007]
Don't let them dock and keep their original cost. Slap in a drone + fighter damage/ bonus modifier to get them up to +3 per level damage/bonus. +2 fighter bombers is more than enough. Hopefully this should address the number of drones issue.
Making them dock will only obsolete carriers for end game combat given enough time.
After that make a new model for the intermediate carrier you pretty much have tried to create the change after all that play testing.
|
Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:03:00 -
[1008]
Question
If Super carrier is to carrier what destroyer is to frig, how would you change super-carriers from what they are now?
Also, shouldn't you be looking to double dread dps with all things considered? ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:04:00 -
[1009]
Originally by: Agmar
Originally by: The Mittani Seriouspost: someone make us some "Free Abathur" sigs.
QTIFYD ______________________________
|
DarkAngel
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:04:00 -
[1010]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
I hope you mean by docking, that you will be able to dock them at a POS??? Isn't this available already?? Forgive my noobness on this subject, but it sounds the most logical..
Other than that minor clarification, i say the pre nerfed version that was on sisi for us to play with was a good ship to fly. I also agree with missiles not doing 100% damage to capitals needing to be fixed.
That is all.
DA
DA |
|
John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:04:00 -
[1011]
Lets be positive here. CCP Nozh, what happens to the DPS of the other 5 drones that I can no longer launch? I am also tired of all the hate talk here. I think this is due to these discussions being very one sided, players only talking. Maybe the devs can get a litle more involved and work with the community?
I liked the idea of not being able to dock and the ship being so expensive, this means it still has a level of honour and status. Why drop the price of the "Super carrier"?
We looking at proper Motherships soon?
|
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Shade. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:05:00 -
[1012]
Originally by: Agmar
Originally by: The Mittani Seriouspost: someone make us some "Free Abathur" sigs.
sup ______
|
Uzume Ame
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:08:00 -
[1013]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
A very reasonable post. PLEASE, listen.
|
fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:10:00 -
[1014]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
this is all fine and good but there is no way a new ship will be modeled and implimented within 3 weeks. wnt happen.
it would have to be reverting back to abathur's stats then a scale up of current model or swap for new model later on motherships.
then for the 6bill carriers either a new model or a reskin t2 carrier.
So to sum up.. NO to either of the current nerfs on super carriers. back to Abather's version. at later date introduce 6bill t2/strik carrier with the suggested stats but less ehp. Possible change in scale of the super carrier and or new model for either.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Fogy
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:10:00 -
[1015]
Originally by: Agmar
Originally by: The Mittani Seriouspost: someone make us some "Free Abathur" sigs.
Nozh, You are uniting ALL of 0.0 against you! Goons, PL, NC and IT, AAA, Atlas quoting AND AGREEING with each other! WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING!?!? LOL Sworn enemies, for several years now.
Norwegian Wood, for hire!
|
starliight
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:11:00 -
[1016]
This is what ccp wants, they want to see super carriers hit the field and they want to see them in bulk, thats why they are making these changes so for everyone out their saying their are going to be blobs of them you are telling ccp exactly what they want to hear.
Now its painfull obvious that their is going to be some type of new capital ship released in the future, as to what it is i have no clue but you cant go from 10B super carrier that can dock to 60B titan that is 5x bigger than anything ingame and cannot dock.
Basically what we have is a t2 carrier of sorts now, with the ability to launch 5 extra drones and use fighter bombers with a much bigger tank.
I do agree however that this ship is a bit to powerfull to play station games but do also agree that at the new price point it should be allowed to dock. so a simple solution to the issue is after a super carrier has engaged in any time of agression to lock their dock timer for at least an hour. this fixes the station hugging issue and also allows docking right for inceased versatility.
|
Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:12:00 -
[1017]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 19:37:48 Take one rebalance. Add 300 whining MOM pilots. Result:
1) HP boosted, ewar immune, unkillable Dock/Undock MOMs..... 2) Reimbursement president set.
SKUNK
i don't think that this is the solution that anyone had in mind
|
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:13:00 -
[1018]
FREE ABATHUR ______________________________
|
skye orionis
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:14:00 -
[1019]
I'm secretly hoping that this mom => supercarrier thing is just a ruse to hide that fact that they're actually releasing T2 Carriers and that a couple of days before Dominion's release we'll see changes to sisi with mom's restored to undockable monsters while we'll be able to run invention jobs against carrier blueprints.
That would be one way for CCP to turn this from epic fail to epic win.
|
Avoida
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:14:00 -
[1020]
Now I'm really jealous of all the pilots who won motherships in Chribba's lotteries. Not only did they get a mom for as little as 10M isk, they will now be handed several billion more ISK just because they have that MS. Y'all just made out like bandits.
|
|
Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:15:00 -
[1021]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous
FREE ABATHUR
too serious looking
|
H Zebra
Zebra Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:16:00 -
[1022]
nice work ccp. at least most peopel have forgotten about the god awfal sov changes
|
Merces Mercedis
Minmatar Lunitic Fringe
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:16:00 -
[1023]
CCP Nozh, I have a simple question. How will a corp/allinace ever be able to take any 0.0 space after the newest perposed changes? what I mean is now we will have ships that can sit out side of a station happly repping it when there is nothing in Eve that can do anything about it. Oh and for some reason one of these new cap carriers do take to much damage while repping the station it can just happly dock.
My my I can sure see how that will open up 0.0 to new players. Way to go m8.
Please please let someone who plays Eve make changes to ships that can totaly change the way it is played as we can all tell you have never played a moment of Eve.
|
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:17:00 -
[1024]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
Excellent post right there.
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
|
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:19:00 -
[1025]
Someone PMed this to me:
For anyone who doesn't understand what the above image means, tracking on dreads got hugely nerfed.
It effectively means that pulse will now track as bad as beams, ACs as bad as arties, blasters as bad as rails. And don't even think about how this affects long-range guns. They won't be able to hit a moving capital even at moderate ranges now.
All Capital guns took a 75% hit to tracking.
Is this CCP Nozh doing too?
--
|
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:19:00 -
[1026]
Originally by: Darknesss CCP continue to astonish me at how out of touch they are with the common player.
The common player? Seriously? The common player doesn't give two ****s about changes to supercarriers. The common player has never, nor will they ever fly one. They might encounter these ships in combat once or twice, ever.
No, its YOU LOT who is totally out of touch with the "common player.? My sig don't fracking work. |
Kate Pole
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:20:00 -
[1027]
Docking=bad
Why not just give us 20 F/FBs and no docking and call it even?
HP buff= nice Jump Range increase= nice
Any word on Slaves? There is a rumor on nerfing them when it comes to SC
|
Merces Mercedis
Minmatar Lunitic Fringe
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:22:00 -
[1028]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Darknesss CCP continue to astonish me at how out of touch they are with the common player.
The common player? Seriously? The common player doesn't give two ****s about changes to supercarriers. The common player has never, nor will they ever fly one. They might encounter these ships in combat once or twice, ever.
No, its YOU LOT who is totally out of touch with the "common player.?
You my friend have no clue as to how much this will effect the common players.
|
Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:22:00 -
[1029]
Originally by: Fogy
Originally by: Agmar
Originally by: The Mittani Seriouspost: someone make us some "Free Abathur" sigs.
Nozh, You are uniting ALL of 0.0 against you! Goons, PL, NC and IT, AAA, Atlas quoting AND AGREEING with each other! WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING!?!? LOL Sworn enemies, for several years now.
To be fair AAA is a newish enemy.
Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
|
Sinc
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:23:00 -
[1030]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Does this also mean reimbushment for those who have one in production ?
Inappropriate signature removed. ~Weatherman |
|
Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:23:00 -
[1031]
Originally by: Fogy
Originally by: Agmar
Originally by: The Mittani Seriouspost: someone make us some "Free Abathur" sigs.
Nozh, You are uniting ALL of 0.0 against you! Goons, PL, NC and IT, AAA, Atlas quoting AND AGREEING with each other! WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING!?!? LOL Sworn enemies, for several years now.
Just because we're opponents in a video game doesn't change the fact that you're right and nozh apparently thinks that even if he doesn't understand something, he still ought to try messing with it so that it at least looks like he's doing his job.
|
Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:24:00 -
[1032]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Is this CCP Nozh doing too?
See: no longer getting a a tracking penalty whilst in seige. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:24:00 -
[1033]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Fogy
Originally by: Agmar
Originally by: The Mittani Seriouspost: someone make us some "Free Abathur" sigs.
Nozh, You are uniting ALL of 0.0 against you! Goons, PL, NC and IT, AAA, Atlas quoting AND AGREEING with each other! WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING!?!? LOL Sworn enemies, for several years now.
To be fair AAA is a newish enemy.
To be even fairer goons are pcool but someone has to be the badguy ______________________________
|
Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:25:00 -
[1034]
possibly more appropriate
|
Bigpimping
Pimp Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:28:00 -
[1035]
Edited by: Bigpimping on 13/11/2009 20:28:56 yeah next thing we know, Nozh will get called a jackass by Obama ________________________________________ He who pimps, is God... |
Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:29:00 -
[1036]
Edited by: Jack Gates on 13/11/2009 20:29:42
Originally by: Agmar
possibly more appropriate
do people still think this gag is funny
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Darknesss CCP continue to astonish me at how out of touch they are with the common player.
The common player? Seriously? The common player doesn't give two ****s about changes to supercarriers. The common player has never, nor will they ever fly one. They might encounter these ships in combat once or twice, ever.
No, its YOU LOT who is totally out of touch with the "common player.?
haha look how dumb you are
|
Babel
Boom and Bust Economics Ltd. Naraka.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:30:00 -
[1037]
Presuming the 'docking everywhere' gonna be knocked back .. here's an idea:
'Sovereign MoMpool Outpost Upgrade' - Yes you can 'dock yr supercap' at an outpost with this sexy new hypothetical upgrade integrated into the OP, the ship is invulnerable while yr 'docked' [you appear in station as a pod and ship is outside for all to see] whether yr online or not .. unless ----
--- the outpost changes hands :P
Then the new owners have the 'parked' supercaps all to themselves.
Essentially - Yes, you can dock your supercap [at an outpost owned by your corp] BUT there is always the risk that OP will change hands and someone else gets yr big shiney toy ..... .
"Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn" |
Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:30:00 -
[1038]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
This: new ship for what you suggest now without ew immunity and leave the titans and motherships the way Abathur suggested! "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:33:00 -
[1039]
Originally by: Jack Gates do people still think this gag is funny
No... which is why it is.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:36:00 -
[1040]
disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.
I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.
-Karlemgne My sig don't fracking work. |
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:39:00 -
[1041]
Originally by: Karlemgne disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.
I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.
-Karlemgne
no one cares what some low brow scrub thinks
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Obsidian Hawk
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:42:00 -
[1042]
CCP is this nerf happenign because you have a new super secret ship coming out? Tell us, no more secrets!!
Also, still need to work on this drone thing, im saying 2.5 drones per level is reasonable enough, but I WANT MY CLONE VAT!!
The clone vat was a great logistical pwn mobile. you could fit the corp hangers with XXXX ammo and fit the ship hanger with XXXXX bombers and drop a mothership into a system, have everyoen clone jump and mount into bombers while the mothership cloaked. Motherships / super carriers are supposed to be great tactical command and control ships.
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:43:00 -
[1043]
CCP on the subject of reimbursement:
The easiest and most fair way to do this would be to allow us to dock pre-dominion. Either through petitions or just allowing us to dock normally.
If I could dock and refine my ship for the materials I'd get my money out of it and be sufficiently happy.
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iudex
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:44:00 -
[1044]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
For me (as someone involved in producing, not actually flying them) this looks like an acceptable compromise, provided you don't reduce the NPC price of the BPOs. I assume there will be a decent demand with this version of changes, since the dockability is a huge improvement (doesn't require extra char, easy safe to trade etc.), also the reimbursement for the value loss seems to mitigate things for existing owners a lot. _____________________________________________________ My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00 |
darkcherry
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:45:00 -
[1045]
Originally by: FlashSpawn CCP To Whom it may concern:
I have had a NYX BPO sitting in a station for the past 1.5 years doing nothing really, until you told us of the great new changes to MOM's, 2 or so months ago.
I am not much of an industrialist and have built some carriers when they first came out but that is about it. So I think to myself hey lets build some NYX's and sell them as people are now wanting them big time.
So 2 months ago I dig in and spend:
15B ISK on component BPO's 3B ISK on a POS and capital arrays 3B ISK on 4 freighters for my alts to carry the stuff. 24B ISK on 2 lots of minerals for the Nyx's as you need to be building the next comps while the first is in build. 20B ISK Nyx BPO I already own.
That is a investment of 65B ISK of my own ISK, my ISK not anyone else's MINE!
With this change EVE will go back to how it was before, no one will fly them, so no one will buy them.
I have 3 people in my queue, ready to buy them, but now I am just waiting for them to turn around and say they don't want them now.
What am I to do with 65B ISK investment and possibly 3 Nyx's in my possession?? You made statements that changed things in EVE and now you renege on them!
Quite frankly I am getting a little tired of this sort of stupid half baked ideas that you thrust upon us at times.
I have 9 accounts with you CCP and 24 individual chars and have been playing this game for over 4 years, how about treating us players with the respect that we deserve? At the end of the day we are the ones helping you to make your product.
CCP please have a talk to some people in your company that do play in 0.0 with caps and the like and see what they think of this idea? Your guys have made mistakes before and you have corrected them as well (Carrier/Fighter nerf), so please do the same again here.
Thanks
FlashSpawn
can i haz your stuffz?
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skye orionis
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:48:00 -
[1046]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk CCP is this nerf happenign because you have a new super secret ship coming out? Tell us, no more secrets!!
Also, still need to work on this drone thing, im saying 2.5 drones per level is reasonable enough, but I WANT MY CLONE VAT!!
I'm telling ya, if they revert moms and make T2 Carriers = Super Mega Win
Of course then we'll get a 30 page thread about bad paintjobs.
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:52:00 -
[1047]
Edited by: Jack Sparroxx on 13/11/2009 20:52:22 sweet lord
rampaging herds of EW immune AEON's with millions's of HP and 15 fighterbombers. They will be dirt cheap and you can dock them, did any one say epic docking games???.. That will end bad BAD BAD. That set up will be game breaking like nothing else. and with out a doubt the nerf bat will get swung on that ship class again before long.
Why cant you just leave the ship as it was on you first draft? the shipclass was just about perfect(apart from the HEL lol bonus).
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white kight
Galaxy Punks Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:54:00 -
[1048]
I don't mind the whole docking thing. Just give it a special docking timer, like it can only dock once every 30 mins or an hour or something. This should get rid of most of the station games.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
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Jack Gates
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:56:00 -
[1049]
Originally by: Babel Presuming the 'docking everywhere' gonna be knocked back .. here's an idea:
'Sovereign MoMpool Outpost Upgrade' - Yes you can 'dock yr supercap' at an outpost with this sexy new hypothetical upgrade integrated into the OP, the ship is invulnerable while yr 'docked' [you appear in station as a pod and ship is outside for all to see] whether yr online or not .. unless ----
--- the outpost changes hands :P
Then the new owners have the 'parked' supercaps all to themselves.
Essentially - Yes, you can dock your supercap [at an outpost owned by your corp] BUT there is always the risk that OP will change hands and someone else gets yr big shiney toy .....
this is beyond idiotic
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:01:00 -
[1050]
Originally by: Karlemgne disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.
I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.
-Karlemgne
Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).
1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced. 2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost. 3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried. 4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks. 5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks. 6. Rinse repeat.
--
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Anile8er
Solstice Systems Development Concourse Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:01:00 -
[1051]
I think this last post from CCP about the ability to dock and 15 fighters/bombers is a good fit for the ship. Aswell the reimbursment for value.
well done CCP for taking player thoughts into consideration. A 7th high slot may serve the ship well too considering there lower drone count will lessen there effectivness against smaller ships. A 7th high slot gives the player another neut or smartbomb.
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:02:00 -
[1052]
Edited by: Ivanna Nuke on 13/11/2009 21:02:53 Edited by: Ivanna Nuke on 13/11/2009 21:02:29 Oh dear, just put it back as it was before.
edit: Don't type while holding a drink... not good.
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:03:00 -
[1053]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Karlemgne disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.
I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.
-Karlemgne
Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).
1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced. 2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost. 3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried. 4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks. 5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks. 6. Rinse repeat.
This tactic would probably work with carriers.
Starbases should be decoupled from sov entirely tbhf. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
glassmanipulator
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:04:00 -
[1054]
Originally by: Mendolorian Girl Edited by: Mendolorian Girl on 12/11/2009 16:17:39
Originally by: The Mittani Abathur and Hammerhead had this all sewn up nicely at Fanfest. The capital ships panel was broadly hailed as a success and the players were excited about the upcoming changes.
Now you've created chaos where previously there was a surprisingly high degree of order and unanimity, for EVE at least. With your clumsy PR move there, you also just wiped out the wealth of everyone planning and investing in MS builds, or who was planning on selling one pre-patch.
Don't like the changes? Sell your MS! Oh wait, Nozh told everyone they'll be cut in value by 40%, even though that's not been finalized. Good luck selling one now!
I don't know who you are or why you're messing with what was one of the few uncontroversially good aspects of Dominion. But you should back off these changes ASAP. You should also gain a basic understanding of economics/public relations, given how much chaos your lil post there just created.
I don't even fly a supercap, and GS isn't exactly a supercap heavy alliance, but your pro-move stealth nerf and followup nightmare post is infuriating in and of itself. In fact, I'm so annoyed, I'm dropping my posting gimmick to point out how monumentally poorly judged this is.
I hate that I'm about to say this, but I couldn't agree with The Mittani more. A well thought out and intelligent post.
You'll have to excuse me, I now have to go shower in bleach.
//edit - crap, he did it again.. another sensible answer :(
For once I'd have to agree as well.......
He pretty much hits the nail on the head.
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Glassback
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:05:00 -
[1055]
Originally by: CCP Nozh crappy stuff
WHO ARE YOU?
Originally by: CCP Navigator Please also note that Community do not make game design decisions and nor will we comment on them.
Quoting for the eternal embarrassment of CCP and the spirit of EVE. |
Rosalyn Heart
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:09:00 -
[1056]
Originally by: CynoNet Two http://cgi.ebay.com/Eve-online-manual-with-free-Erebus-Titan-Pilot_W0QQitemZ180431549468QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a028ef41c
Hey Nozh you should grab this and learn to play supercaps
Don't forget the collector's edition guide.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:11:00 -
[1057]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).
1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced. 2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost. 3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried. 4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks. 5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks. 6. Rinse repeat.
Best post for today
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Bagdon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:11:00 -
[1058]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
You guys should really have your accounts disabled when you're out drinking.
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Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:15:00 -
[1059]
Originally by: Jack Gates
Originally by: Agmar
Originally by: Jack Gates do people still think this gag is funny
No... which is why it is.
I don't think it's really reached that "ironic funny" point yet
what was the number... like 26.3 years for how long it took AIDS to be funny.
Glassback, CCP Community members are not in charge of game designs. Navigator is a member of the CCP Community crew and he just locks my posts and bans me. Same with CCP StevieSG and Mitanl. They don't do "in game" stuff, they just ruin my life on the forums.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:19:00 -
[1060]
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Karlemgne disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.
I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.
-Karlemgne
no one cares what some low brow scrub thinks
Good, because nobody buy goons really gives two craps about what metawhiners think. So I guess we're in a very similar position visa vis our relationship to this thread.
My sig don't fracking work. |
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:19:00 -
[1061]
Edited by: Ivanna Nuke on 13/11/2009 21:19:28
Originally by: Bagdon
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
You guys should really have your accounts disabled when you're out drinking.
LOL, +5 internets good sir.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:19:00 -
[1062]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Karlemgne disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.
I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.
-Karlemgne
Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).
1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced. 2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost. 3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried. 4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks. 5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks. 6. Rinse repeat.
And this is ofcourse not possible with standard carriers..
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:23:00 -
[1063]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).
1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced. 2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost. 3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried. 4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks. 5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks. 6. Rinse repeat.
This tactic would probably work with carriers.
Nope. Carriers can be melted before they can redock or they have a chance to get into the spidertank web. Supercarriers will have 20-25 times the HP of a carrier, and will therefore be able to survive. Also, carriers can be jammed and dampened to break their spidertanks. Supercarriers cannot.
Originally by: Pattern Clarc Starbases should be decoupled from sov entirely tbhf.
They will be. Outposts will now be protecting sov instead. With a dual reinforcement timer, so you'll get two chances to defend according to the above.
--
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Rosalyn Heart
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:24:00 -
[1064]
Edited by: Rosalyn Heart on 13/11/2009 21:25:17
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Karlemgne disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.
I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.
-Karlemgne
Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).
1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced. 2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost. 3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried. 4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks. 5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks. 6. Rinse repeat.
And this is ofcourse [sic] not possible with standard carriers..
It has been demonstrated on more than one occasion that it is possible to alpha a regular carrier with just BSes and dreadnoughts on the field.
EDIT - Beaten...by -A- no less. :argh:
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Dirk Culliford
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:25:00 -
[1065]
Ok...so to summarise:
Sov wars now pointless because of having to destroy anything of value - Check Sov wars now impossible to win because of MS blob sitting on the station - Check
I say we all just blue each other and run anomalies together
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Fuujin
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:29:00 -
[1066]
Originally by: Vladameir .
Logistics Carrier - Current Carrier
Strike Carrier - Fighterbomber 2-4bil what nozh has in mind.. no logistics
Super Carrier - Abathur's changes to the MOMS.. KEEP THE OLD ONES
WIN!!!
Oddly, I can get behind this. Carrier 1, Carrier 3, Carrier 5
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:30:00 -
[1067]
I want CCP's own reason without any public relations ****e thrown in, as to why they moved away from a plan of which the community was happy with.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:32:00 -
[1068]
How long is it going to take Nozh to write his "big picture" blog? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:32:00 -
[1069]
Originally by: Rosalyn Heart
EDIT - Beaten...by -A- no less. :argh:
Sorry sweetie. :(
I didn't mean to do that. We're all allied in this now after all. Many loves to our goon brosefs. :) --
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:38:00 -
[1070]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Rosalyn Heart
EDIT - Beaten...by -A- no less. :argh:
Sorry sweetie. :(
I didn't mean to do that. We're all allied in this now after all. Many loves to our goon brosefs. :)
QFT
PS. were forming in a lil while for shooty shooty k ______________________________
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Merces Mercedis
Minmatar Lunitic Fringe
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:40:00 -
[1071]
Edited by: Merces Mercedis on 13/11/2009 21:41:25 Will some Dev please take the time to give a explanation for these changes.
If there is a good reason maybe you will get some support, not the rage you have now over changes we the players do not understand and see as a game killer for those of us in 0.0
Do you understand you have now managed to totaly make a static 0.0 w/o any chance for anyone gaining or loosing any sov with a station what ever.
Please explain this to us.
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Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:41:00 -
[1072]
Before dominon,
Motership pilots lowed the ships they had.
All the nice officer mods they fitt. With these changes it's gona change A LOT.
No one is gona fitt cool mods on it any more. It will also end upp as "just another ship".
Motership where nice, and we loved them!
PLEASE GO BACK TO CHANGES THAT WHERE ON SISI LAST WEEK!
They where actaly nice, and balanced!
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:42:00 -
[1073]
Originally by: Odda Before dominon,
Motership pilots lowed the ships they had.
All the nice officer mods they fitt. With these changes it's gona change A LOT.
No one is gona fitt cool mods on it any more. It will also end upp as "just another ship".
Motership where nice, and we loved them!
PLEASE GO BACK TO CHANGES THAT WHERE ON SISI LAST WEEK!
They where actaly nice, and balanced!
The new ones rule
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Zaethiel
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:53:00 -
[1074]
There seems to be alot of rumors atm. I would like to know how things are all around atm.
1.Are Super Carriers getting 10 drone max now? 2.Expl Radius on compacts still at 1000? 3.Damage reduced from 3600 to 3200? 4.It true that their price was reduced by 50%? (that really sucks i payed 17bill for mine a long time ago).
The 10 drone max is pretty crappy since drones are killed so easily, plus HICs are redicuously tanked; A Super Carrier probably doesn't stand any chance of actually soloing a HIC within a reasonable amount of time. A BS could tank 20 fighters with an active tank (currently), how can anyone expect a mothership to be useful going off of 50% less DPS when it couldn't even kill a Drake with max skills. I thought they were supposed to be capital killers, at least let them kill capitals; atm it seems like a carrier or dread could just tank a mothership without problem esp. if you count triage and siege. -----
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Fleur D'oranger
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:54:00 -
[1075]
Edited by: Fleur D''oranger on 13/11/2009 21:54:30 This thread has turned into comedy gold, truly.
One half of the knowledgable people are saying that these will never be used again and that will ruin eve.
The other half of the knowledgable people are saying we're going to be ass deep in them and it will ruin Eve.
Which is it?
Look, I can remember when you were a force of nature in this game if you could field 20 battleships. Battleship fights were like, whoa!
Bit later on, you paniced if a dread showed up. Then it was 10 dreads... 50 dreads... 100 dreads.
Hello? Capital fights are so 2008. Time for super-cap fights. Anything has to be better than the stagnant status quo of the few collecting way too much from way too many, no? I think it'd be awesome to watch AAA and Goon and IT throw SCs and Titans at each other until they were flat busted and back in empire. Woudldn't it?
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JZIM
Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:55:00 -
[1076]
30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:00:00 -
[1077]
Originally by: JZIM 30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx
Aye. At the very least its time for different redock timers for different ship classes. I mean really, wouldn't it be more difficult to tractor a supercarrier into a station than a shuttle?
Colonies and Capitals |
Ryan Coolness
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:01:00 -
[1078]
Edited by: Ryan Coolness on 13/11/2009 22:05:15
Quote:
* Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
ok, fair enough, better then just 10, if DCU on SCs also add 2 per level instead of 1 there could even be an incentive to fit a few of them
Quote:
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
Thank you for listening, I'd still rather have you keep them expensive as they are now instead, but at least we aint being robbed, thats good
Quote: * Can dock at stations
Together with the cost reduction this means the entry barrier to these ships got lowered by a lot. They will be very common ships and nothing "special" any more, loses a lot of the "feeling" to piloting them for sure (not talking about balance issues even like the docking games mentioned above) you know, feeling like this:
Originally by: "CCP Abathur
"Perhaps no ships in EVE symbolize the majesty of the game more than the Nyx, Wyvern, Aeon and Hel."
Personally I'd prefer they stayed exclusive, with high entry requirements and somewhat exclusive.
Plus a lot of people will prolly cancel their supercap pilots accounts, not because of emoragequit but because they aint needed any more with the docking possiblity, do you want that? It loses you money you know? :P
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ericret
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:07:00 -
[1079]
Originally by: JZIM 30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx
This. It will be great to dock supercarriers, but make it so that you can't play docking games with them PLEASE!
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Mnement'h
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:07:00 -
[1080]
This is getting absurd ... CCP if you want Dominion to hit TQ on Dec 1st without it imploding all together leave the moms in their current Apocrypha state, launch dominion and then work some more on the whole deal till you can make something that isn't a lame excuse for a design solution ...
oh and please let go of the spreadsheet and actually play the game for a change ... and I mean the game on TQ, not the devs-with-spreadsheets playpen on SiSi. Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou are crunchy and go well with ketchup ... |
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:12:00 -
[1081]
Originally by: Trent Nichols
Originally by: JZIM 30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx
Aye. At the very least its time for different redock timers for different ship classes. I mean really, wouldn't it be more difficult to tractor a supercarrier into a station than a shuttle?
And while we're at it - repairing a ship using a station's facilities shouldn't be instantaneous, you shouldn't be able to repair more than say 250,000 hp per minute.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:19:00 -
[1082]
go back to where we were last week
no ducking ~12b cost 3 drones per level un****ed explosion radius
nothing more, nothing less.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Lord Power
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:23:00 -
[1083]
Ok this can be solved if ccp is willing to listen.
1. Super Carriers only allowed to dock in 0.0 space with station upgrade inplace. 2. Super Carriers cannot dock in anything other than 0.0 3. Super Carriers be allowed to fit Jump Portal Generators like the titan, for bridging. That would make something about the name go along with "SUPER" 4. For reimbursement. Make those ships Pre dominion Insurable in stations, for say X-amount 15bil or something, that way when they die, money rembursed minus mods. 5. 5 minute agression timer in 0.0 to avoide station dock/undock games just like the titan cool down timer...
That said alot of supercarrier problems solved.
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sg3s
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:27:00 -
[1084]
Edited by: sg3s on 13/11/2009 22:31:52
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Dear Nozh,
No rant this time, I have nothing against you, however I oppose the choice of letting super carriers dock. Why would it be a bad idea? Well, from the start, super capitals were supposed to never be 100% safe (unless logged of), I still like this philosophy a lot, and eve should keep it, for titans AND super carriers.
Instead I would opt for an alternative for docking, an option / feature that would allow supercapital pilots to leave their ship in safety for a finite amount of time, time which they can use to do other stuff like shooting reds in other ships / attending to meetings in empire (I dunno) or simply picking up some modules form the nearby outpost.
An idea like this has existed for the longest time already although as a subfeature of the 'modular POSs', a recap was recently made where we iterated a bit further upon the idea of 'Mooring points' for POSs.
I realize that it is possibly not the intention of having super capitals dock to be safe, but to insure them that made you make this change, however I find it hard to believe no alternative options can be realized to insure ships...
En fin the implementation of 'mooring points' would of course come down to the details of the mechanics, I have my ideas about that (ask me to iterate upon it and I will), like how to protect the capitals from being stolen by corp members which have roles to offline stuff at POSs (my idea: offline time is 12 or so hours, and has it's own 'reinforced' mode to protect from spies that infiltrate only to turn of the POS shields).
Regards,
PS. Talk to your co-workers a bit more often
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:28:00 -
[1085]
Originally by: Lord Power Ok this can be solved if ccp is willing to listen.
1. Super Carriers only allowed to dock in 0.0 space with station upgrade inplace. 2. Super Carriers cannot dock in anything other than 0.0 3. Super Carriers be allowed to fit Jump Portal Generators like the titan, for bridging. That would make something about the name go along with "SUPER" 4. For reimbursement. Make those ships Pre dominion Insurable in stations, for say X-amount 15bil or something, that way when they die, money rembursed minus mods. 5. 5 minute agression timer in 0.0 to avoide station dock/undock games just like the titan cool down timer...
That said alot of supercarrier problems solved.
Wrong. this will still lead to the problem of 20-30 just undocking defending a station and then redocking. no one will take station in 0.0 it will be a disaster. besides we dnt want to dock. we want our expensive but semi usefull dread killer.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:30:00 -
[1086]
Why make a comprimise with the repair. The extra drone per level is removed and Nozh has said the plus is now that they can dock. I personally feel that this is very broken. The initial idea was great changes and meant that players will finally get to use these ships properly as weapons of mass destruction.
With making them dockable and reducing their value are the BPOs coming down in price? Will we be able to build them in stations?
I don't like the feel of these new changes. The whole class has just been reduced to "another ship". I am glad to see CCP is coming to the table on this but these changes are not being properly worked through.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:33:00 -
[1087]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Darknesss CCP continue to astonish me at how out of touch they are with the common player.
The common player? Seriously? The common player doesn't give two ****s about changes to supercarriers. The common player has never, nor will they ever fly one. They might encounter these ships in combat once or twice, ever.
No, its YOU LOT who is totally out of touch with the "common player.?
They will be everywhere if those changes go in. Even I that make no effort whatsoever to make ISK could get one relatively easily... -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
NathanMoore
Cataclysm Enterprises Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:34:00 -
[1088]
Originally by: JZIM 30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx
good idea, or even a hour or two. But this would be an amazing compromise.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:35:00 -
[1089]
1- DO NOT reduce the cost to 5-6b...all mothership/supercarrier pilots are happy with them at 12b 2- ONLY dockable at an upgraded outpost 3- plus two fighters/fighterbombers/drones per level would be fine 4- compact citadel torpedo explosion radius should atl least go down to 1700 5- 3200 damage per compact citadel torpedo is fine 6- NO triage/clone vat/jump portal generator is fine 7- increase figther/fighter bomber bay to carry plenty of extra since they will definately be killed off by support ships 8- HP changes are perfect 9- a redock timer should be added to them
the most important thing out of all this is the cost to build one, you definately are opening Pandora's box making them 5-6b each |
Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:36:00 -
[1090]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Darknesss CCP continue to astonish me at how out of touch they are with the common player.
The common player? Seriously? The common player doesn't give two ****s about changes to supercarriers. The common player has never, nor will they ever fly one. They might encounter these ships in combat once or twice, ever.
No, its YOU LOT who is totally out of touch with the "common player.?
They will be everywhere if those changes go in. Even I that make no effort whatsoever to make ISK could get one relatively easily...
This is why I 100% support the changes.
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Kate Pole
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:37:00 -
[1091]
I have no idea why CCP added the docking, unless it is assumed you can only dock with the station upgrades and not just anywhere; and we are going nuts over nothing. I don't remember anyone *****ing about docking, more like dps, tank and value issues.
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Quadratko
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:41:00 -
[1092]
What's we have at Apocrifa about motherships: - legendary ship, symbol of EvE, available just for couple peoples, but mostly used as logist, may be easily killed, low battlefield abilites. Mothership should be boosting.
What's we have at dominion about "supercarriers" now: - low cost, docking to stations = massive Nyx on undock. Im thinks is bad idea, CCP just nerfed legend ship to level of fleet-BS, it's just quillwort.
I thinks, CCP must come back to normally rebalancing MBs with changes worth to it's role and status. Supercarriers must be different new shiptype. Two weeks is more than enough for doing this. And it's must be calls something else then "Supercarriers", that name sounds like openly acknowledge of CCP's game designers impotence.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:43:00 -
[1093]
Originally by: Battle Tested 1- DO NOT reduce the cost to 5-6b...all mothership/supercarrier pilots are happy with them at 12b 2- ONLY dockable at an upgraded outpost 3- plus two fighters/fighterbombers/drones per level would be fine 4- compact citadel torpedo explosion radius should atl least go down to 1700 5- 3200 damage per compact citadel torpedo is fine 6- NO triage/clone vat/jump portal generator is fine 7- increase figther/fighter bomber bay to carry plenty of extra since they will definately be killed off by support ships 8- HP changes are perfect 9- a redock timer should be added to them
the most important thing out of all this is the cost to build one, you definately are opening Pandora's box making them 5-6b each
also should add a "sensor recalibration timer" on them upon undocking, say 10-15 minutes, and docking upgrade on outpost should be limited to one per constellation |
Uzume Ame
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:48:00 -
[1094]
Originally by: NathanMoore
Originally by: JZIM 30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx
good idea, or even a hour or two. But this would be an amazing compromise.
This could actually make sense. Do that and fix compact citadels and we are set-up. Also remove insurance from supercaps enterelly (basic insurance included, specially with cheaper supercarriers).
- Then make titans worth something and not a glorified dread (seriouslly, there hasn't been much outcry, but that's because there is MUCH less people which considered flying onw at all, and less titan pilots). - Then go and fix disparity between armor/shield tanking supercaps. - Then fix citadel torps, and citadel cruise; and un-nerf capital guns as current iteration. And fix failgars. - Then fix screw up of moon goo rebalance. - Then make system upgrades worth something considering and not a joke.
And then we have a decent expansion, far from perfect (not very original gamedesign in some aspects and still some not so bright decissions with sov system), but much better than current abortion.
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:51:00 -
[1095]
Originally by: Lord Power Ok this can be solved if ccp is willing to listen.
1. Super Carriers only allowed to dock in 0.0 space with station upgrade inplace. 2. Super Carriers cannot dock in anything other than 0.0 3. Super Carriers be allowed to fit Jump Portal Generators like the titan, for bridging. That would make something about the name go along with "SUPER" 4. For reimbursement. Make those ships Pre dominion Insurable in stations, for say X-amount 15bil or something, that way when they die, money rembursed minus mods. 5. 5 minute agression timer in 0.0 to avoide station dock/undock games just like the titan cool down timer...
That said alot of supercarrier problems solved.
Wrong. this will still lead to the problem of 20-30 just undocking defending a station and then redocking. no one will take station in 0.0 it will be a disaster. besides we dnt want to dock. we want our expensive but semi usefull dread killer.
The reason half say it wnt be used and the other half say they will be every where is cus this is one of those changes that is so imbalanced and wrong that it litteraly is going to go 1 of those 2 ways. the first nerf before we got the docking and increase to 15 fb. That nerf would of lead to NO one using them. The nerf of docking i lead to a abuse of their hp.
Now if he removes the hp they will once again be useless as no one will use a ship that can still get ganked on station by 20 dreads and costs 6-10 bill. And they wnt be used on the field cus they will be as bad as they are now. - some firepower.
the only real soloution is the original one. expensive ship. can't dock. can kill dreads but wnt survive without fleet backup.
THE reason i think he has done this is because they assume there is a chance that 2030 of these could show up and start raping fields of ships. IF it was lag from drones it was a simple matter of lowering the number and making up the dps with less.
The fix to the problem of 20+ attacking is: A. probably not a issue cus once 1-10 fights happen where 30 turn up then 40 counter them. It just will balance out with less of them cus they get killed by each other. or they wnt be fielded without backup. This will mean super caps will be fighting each other probably. support will be ducking it out around them.
B. The real issue is having more than say 10 super dps ships shooting 1 target any way.. Its boring when 40 dreads shoot 1 dread. It's boring when 40 supercarriers shoot 1 dread. Its still boring when 40 super carriers shoot 1 super carrier.
The problem is people primarying 1 target. its across the board. If you want more sandbox tactics and a eliment of planning a fight ranges ect. YOU MUST LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO CAN SHOOT THE SAME THING
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Millsy1
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:51:00 -
[1096]
Honestly I hate that so many people are against docking. I mean it's a game. Forcing someone to put their character in a single ship, which they can never leave just sucks. Especially for those people who aren't able to pay for 2 characters.
Everyone who says "They should only be able to dock in an upgraded station" Look, not everyone who has a mom is going to be in an alliance. Why punish someone who has been playing for 5 years, who has worked their ass off to make enough isk, or mine enough minerals to build/buy one of these ships? And if you say "they can only be built by alliances" sure, but they can be bought by anyone with the right price.
It's a slap in the face to say "alright, you got the 'endgame' good luck trying to enjoy the game now".
As for docking games. I have zero problem with them adding in something to only allow them to dock once an hour or something (or whatever number ends up making sense) just so they don't make the things impossible to kill. It shouldn't be hard to add that code. There is already 4 different types of docking timers (cyno into system, shoot a rat, shoot a player, just undocked)
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Kate Pole
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:52:00 -
[1097]
Edited by: Kate Pole on 13/11/2009 22:53:28
Originally by: Battle Tested 1- DO NOT reduce the cost to 5-6b...all mothership/supercarrier pilots are happy with them at 12b 2- ONLY dockable at an upgraded outpost 3- plus two fighters/fighterbombers/drones per level would be fine 4- compact citadel torpedo explosion radius should atl least go down to 1700 5- 3200 damage per compact citadel torpedo is fine 6- NO triage/clone vat/jump portal generator is fine 7- increase figther/fighter bomber bay to carry plenty of extra since they will definately be killed off by support ships 8- HP changes are perfect 9- a redock timer should be added to them
the most important thing out of all this is the cost to build one, you definately are opening Pandora's box making them 5-6b each
I'm not ok with 15 and not ok with the dps. If CCP wants them to be used they need dps. rest I agree
And someone with good organization skills should make a post in a format where we can all vote on the most common wants and do not want.. THREAD NOUGHT HOOOOOOO!!
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:55:00 -
[1098]
Originally by: Kate Pole Edited by: Kate Pole on 13/11/2009 22:53:28
Originally by: Battle Tested 1- DO NOT reduce the cost to 5-6b...all mothership/supercarrier pilots are happy with them at 12b 2- ONLY dockable at an upgraded outpost 3- plus two fighters/fighterbombers/drones per level would be fine 4- compact citadel torpedo explosion radius should atl least go down to 1700 5- 3200 damage per compact citadel torpedo is fine 6- NO triage/clone vat/jump portal generator is fine 7- increase figther/fighter bomber bay to carry plenty of extra since they will definately be killed off by support ships 8- HP changes are perfect 9- a redock timer should be added to them
the most important thing out of all this is the cost to build one, you definately are opening Pandora's box making them 5-6b each
I'm not ok with 15 and not ok with the dps. If CCP wants them to be used they need dps. rest I agree
And someone with good organization skills should make a post in a format where we can all vote on the most common wants and do not want.. THREAD NOUGHT HOOOOOOO!!
The DPS wil increase drastically if you look @ reducing the explosion radius to 1700 |
The Navigator
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:55:00 -
[1099]
nuff said. FREE ABATHUR!
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:56:00 -
[1100]
* No on the docking. Seriously? Seriously? The only thing you could use Carriers for the Supercarrier couldn't do is jump longer distances. It hauls better, more HP, E-war immune and extra slots for roughly 4-5 extra bil. It will completely outclass the current form a Carrier in every way.
* Give it a bonus to fighter/fighterbomber damage to reflect it having 15 effective fighters at Racial Carrier V. There is no reason you should have even more objects on the grid in large fights anyhow. Its not like any of the crybaby mothership pilots assign their fighters to anybody currently. They wouldn't get their FEARSOME UNIQUE AWESOME DPS that way.
* Do not, ever reimburse a single person because of the different build cost. You bought when it was worth X and now its worth Y now. You can't exactly go scream at retailer selling you an LCD TV back when they first hit the market at 20 times the price they are now. ...and if you just recently bought it, You got BURNED speculating. Harsh hyper-capitalist world, deal with it. If you are a capital pilot, you have been around EVE to see how the expansions work. Look in the mirror, scream at them.
And well, best of luck to CCP. No matter where you step, you'll get screamed at, keep on keeping on! *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
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Jazuz Krist
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:56:00 -
[1101]
lol @ you guys, you were all adamant during discussions that they should never be able to dock.
now they can dock.... luls shooting yourselves in the foot with all your whining.
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Strap Adiktume
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:59:00 -
[1102]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
CCP I Salute you o7
I like the way all the tears now are from the people saying Wha Wha to the SC/MOM pilots a few pages back XD - And as for recompensing the people with Nyx/Hel/Aeon/Wyvern in production / already - BRAVO!!!!
As for docking well that means they can be insured making it sure that these ships are going to be used and loved by all (that fly in / with them)
If your one of the people now crying however, suck it up and instead of spending ur time bi-yatching about them do what every end-game player has done and train to get one, if it takes you a year and u wanna bi-yatch about that then now you understand the frustrations of all the pilots above. With the price drop they are not only an alliance level toy, they can be enjoyed by all!!!
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ByFstugan
Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:03:00 -
[1103]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 13/11/2009 23:04:55 Some upset MS owners it seems, and some others abit more pleased.
There are no use to discuss what image ppl have about what a super-carrier is or should be imo - the MS's is remade to SC's and will be a new ship - however similar in hull and some bonuses. But with the pricetag reduced I'm not sure it's fruitful to use the term supercapital as foundation for an argument.
I wanna mention the changes one by one and make some comments on them. Since the question of SC's being able to dock is the new topic that gets the most emo since the drones per level was fixed I start with that one:
Docking: I think it's a good thing in general not to trap pilots in their ships, however the issue about them being overpowered at station is not to be ignored. For most people the solution are "no docking", but I think that's not the best one. Change this instead: Make the SC's unable to use drones or offensive modules within X km from docking range in same manner Smartbombs are disabled in empire. This is a problem solved solution imo.
Price and EHP: Reduction of cost is a very good thing imo. I see many ppl thinking they should stay expensive and rare, and probably much due to their view upon what Super capitals is or should be (or that they wanna be more special and own what others cannot afford). However I feel no such feeling, but instead embrace the door to open up to not only the filthy rich to have an capital with the little extra something (I can myself buy more than 3 of them in todays price, so the argument isn't made due to my small wallet). I think EVE has evolved so far from the time when this ships was virtually indestructable (due to insane dreadfleets, dictors and HIC's) that the old pricetag is to big when the space is so much more lethal and full of traps. Not even with the new HP buff will these ships be even close to have such survivalability as they had when introduced - and with the new titans role the EHP is needed since I don't think SC's should be able to instapop, and not even close to it. So even the EHP and the levels it's changed to seems as a good solution when it comes to balance the game.
Number of Drones/Fighters: I'm not saying that the change to two d/f per level is a bad thing, but I think it needs an addition: Change this also: Make the Drone Control Unit also add two d/f per module on the SC's so that the nerf of drones in space doesn't get to big, a module that's rather useless (especially on MS/SC) get a function and that players has to think more when they balance their fit to offensive/defensive setups.
Fighter Bombers: Good move to make this for SC's and assign this new role. Let their damage be decided by the last thing I talked about, how many drones one should be able to launch (if the Drone Control Unit get's 2 per level on SC's).
Active Tank: I know the active tank is almost nothing compared to the EHP this ships will get, but it disrupts my circles to see a Carrier active tank almost 4x as good when in Triage. Therefor I think it should get at least 100% bonus to repair amount on capital reppers/boosters. It still won't compete with a triage carrier in active tank, but it will at least not suck hard in this area compared to it's little brother. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
xplosiv
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:10:00 -
[1104]
Originally by: ByFstugan Edited by: ByFstugan on 13/11/2009 23:04:55 Some upset MS owners it seems, and some others abit more pleased.
There are no use to discuss what image ppl have about what a super-carrier is or should be imo - the MS's is remade to SC's and will be a new ship - however similar in hull and some bonuses. But with the pricetag reduced I'm not sure it's fruitful to use the term supercapital as foundation for an argument.
I wanna mention the changes one by one and make some comments on them. Since the question of SC's being able to dock is the new topic that gets the most emo since the drones per level was fixed I start with that one:
Docking: I think it's a good thing in general not to trap pilots in their ships, however the issue about them being overpowered at station is not to be ignored. For most people the solution are "no docking", but I think that's not the best one. Change this instead: Make the SC's unable to use drones or offensive modules within X km from docking range in same manner Smartbombs are disabled in empire. This is a problem solved solution imo.
Price and EHP: Reduction of cost is a very good thing imo. I see many ppl thinking they should stay expensive and rare, and probably much due to their view upon what Super capitals is or should be (or that they wanna be more special and own what others cannot afford). However I feel no such feeling, but instead embrace the door to open up to not only the filthy rich to have an capital with the little extra something (I can myself buy more than 3 of them in todays price, so the argument isn't made due to my small wallet). I think EVE has evolved so far from the time when this ships was virtually indestructable (due to insane dreadfleets, dictors and HIC's) that the old pricetag is to big when the space is so much more lethal and full of traps. Not even with the new HP buff will these ships be even close to have such survivalability as they had when introduced - and with the new titans role the EHP is needed since I don't think SC's should be able to instapop, and not even close to it. So even the EHP and the levels it's changed to seems as a good solution when it comes to balance the game.
Number of Drones/Fighters: I'm not saying that the change to two d/f per level is a bad thing, but I think it needs an addition: Change this also: Make the Drone Control Unit also add two d/f per module on the SC's so that the nerf of drones in space doesn't get to big, a module that's rather useless (especially on MS/SC) get a function and that players has to think more when they balance their fit to offensive/defensive setups.
Fighter Bombers: Good move to make this for SC's and assign this new role. Let their damage be decided by the last thing I talked about, how many drones one should be able to launch (if the Drone Control Unit get's 2 per level on SC's).
Active Tank: I know the active tank is almost nothing compared to the EHP this ships will get, but it disrupts my circles to see a Carrier active tank almost 4x as good when in Triage. Therefor I think it should get at least 100% bonus to repair amount on capital reppers/boosters. It still won't compete with a triage carrier in active tank, but it will at least not suck hard in this area compared to it's little brother.
u dnt know what ur on about.
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the teddybear
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:12:00 -
[1105]
Originally by: Millsy1 Honestly I hate that so many people are against docking. I mean it's a game. Forcing someone to put their character in a single ship, which they can never leave just sucks. Especially for those people who aren't able to pay for 2 characters.
Everyone who says "They should only be able to dock in an upgraded station" Look, not everyone who has a mom is going to be in an alliance. Why punish someone who has been playing for 5 years, who has worked their ass off to make enough isk, or mine enough minerals to build/buy one of these ships? And if you say "they can only be built by alliances" sure, but they can be bought by anyone with the right price.
It's a slap in the face to say "alright, you got the 'endgame' good luck trying to enjoy the game now".
As for docking games. I have zero problem with them adding in something to only allow them to dock once an hour or something (or whatever number ends up making sense) just so they don't make the things impossible to kill. It shouldn't be hard to add that code. There is already 4 different types of docking timers (cyno into system, shoot a rat, shoot a player, just undocked)
if you are in a supercarrier and are alone (not in an alliance) and have been playing for 5 years somthing is seriously wrong. and if you have a supercarrier you sure could pay for more than just 2 subs, ie sell your useless ship and buy plex's or get stuff you can dock there is no reason to have one if you have it to just fly it.
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John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:32:00 -
[1106]
Edited by: John Zorg on 13/11/2009 23:35:51
Originally by: Artemis Rose * No on the docking. Seriously? Seriously? The only thing you could use Carriers for the Supercarrier couldn't do is jump longer distances. It hauls better, more HP, E-war immune and extra slots for roughly 4-5 extra bil. It will completely outclass the current form a Carrier in every way.
* Give it a bonus to fighter/fighterbomber damage to reflect it having 15 effective fighters at Racial Carrier V. There is no reason you should have even more objects on the grid in large fights anyhow. Its not like any of the crybaby mothership pilots assign their fighters to anybody currently. They wouldn't get their FEARSOME UNIQUE AWESOME DPS that way.
* Do not, ever reimburse a single person because of the different build cost. You bought when it was worth X and now its worth Y now. You can't exactly go scream at retailer selling you an LCD TV back when they first hit the market at 20 times the price they are now. ...and if you just recently bought it, You got BURNED speculating. Harsh hyper-capitalist world, deal with it. If you are a capital pilot, you have been around EVE to see how the expansions work. Look in the mirror, scream at them.
And well, best of luck to CCP. No matter where you step, you'll get screamed at, keep on keeping on!
dude, are you smoked? Do you even own a MS? Do you know what effort goes into to build one of these? When I buy a brand new LCD TV I know that the technology keeps improving and I pay a premium for the new technology. Your relation doesn't work. What is happening here is my LCD TV that I bought is being traded in for a 1940's Black and white TV. I am losing value on the ship.
As for the drone amount launched. By changing it from 20 to 15 it in effect drops my DPS on Fighters and Drones by 25%. This is a big decrease. Just increase the Bandwidth requirement of the fighter Bombers. This will leave normal drones/fighters as is and will restrict the number of fighter bombers you can launch. Sort of like with the Myrmidon that used to be able to launch 5 x Ogres, adjusted the bandwidth now they can only launch 1 with an assortment of other drones.
Adjust the Fighter Bombers Bandwidth, not the amount it can launch, you are breaking everything about Super Carriers. Don't let them Dock, let them hold to the 20 drones they can command at lvl 5 and keep the price where they are now on the live server.
You can then play with the DPS and other features of the new Fighter Bombers.
There, problem solved, no fancy dock/undock timers. Just a straight, easily balanced ship that conforms to other ship standards in EVE. The code is there just use it. Personal request, please increase the ships physical size, they are so sexy yet they are not seen by anyone.
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Athar Mu
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:35:00 -
[1107]
Just reading the last few pages I have to agree with most of the posters, the new changes aren't very well thought out in terms of repercussions.
What it does mean is that if I sell my Dread and my carrier then grind alittle bit I can have a Wyvern before Christmas...and if I lose it (which is why I never really invested in one before cos replacing it would be a pain) I can spend a month or 2 getting the isk for another. And it can dock which means I can go do level 4's in highsec at no risk in my faction Golem with the same character then if I want to play docking games in OMS or Navula I can.
Win for me I suppose
Keep supercapitals for those with holding alts, don't let them dock!!
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:38:00 -
[1108]
I still think we must understand that only the cowbell truly knows the future as it is allied to the garlic bread.
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Kate Pole
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:38:00 -
[1109]
I think the fact that a Super Carrier that costs 12b+ or even (6b) no matter it's a matter of semantics. Anyway, the fact that it cannot kill a well tanked hic is very telling. A multi billion ship cannot kill a 130m (well fitted) ship. I know HIC were designed to tackle an SC but not tank it without an end is lame. Hell, I can make a BS or Command ship tank 20 fighters. SUPER carriers.. SUPER, REALLY?
All that said. The jump range and HP bonus is nice.
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Esna Pitoojee
Amarr TalCorp Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:42:00 -
[1110]
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 13/11/2009 18:46:48 we'll just park our however many supercarriers on the first outpost anyone tries to take in delve or querious, it'll be pretty stress-free since they can throw ecm bursts, are immune to ewar and our various enemies will have to chew through 30m+ ehp to pop one before they redock
we'll use the refund money you're giving us to make up for your catastrophic previous post to buy more docking 30m ehp bricks
cool thanks, bye
edit: anyone praising nozh for listening to 'reason' is little better than a quisling, this change is worse than his first one, and he shouldn't be adjusting /anything/ from the original abathur version of supercapitals
QFT. Just bring back the Abathur version, CCP. You had a lot more happy subscribers back then, and the issues with the "New new Supercarriers" (AKA Superdockers) are so obvious it isn't even funny anymore.
----------------------------------------------
Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you.
My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp. |
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:43:00 -
[1111]
You know what? Let CCP make these changes. Let them make THESE EXACT CHANGES. After a few months of screaming from carrier pilots who can't afford a supercarrier and just about everyone who lives in lowsec, CCP can take another look.
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Lord Eremet
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:48:00 -
[1112]
So Supercarriers will be dockable now? Wow what can I say...
Thats right I say POWER CREEP, POWER CREEP, POWER CREEP, POWER CREEP... Repeat that a 100 times until it goes into your head CCP.
I could afford that. Easily. Then sit at a kickout station ganking nubs all day long. With one gazillion hitpoints no dread fleet will do me in before I dock.
So what was it that I just said... POWER CREEP!!!
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Capataz
Amarr Oberon Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:56:00 -
[1113]
There is a realy easy fix for that, remove the ability to dock in low sec just in 0.0 stations and problem solved. Its not made for low sec anyway ;) rest sounds ok to me just give the so called s-carrier a higher drone boni that you can finaly kill after a reasonable amount of time a hic...
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:57:00 -
[1114]
Originally by: Kate Pole I think the fact that a Super Carrier that costs 12b+ or even (6b) no matter it's a matter of semantics. Anyway, the fact that it cannot kill a well tanked hic is very telling. A multi billion ship cannot kill a 130m (well fitted) ship. I know HIC were designed to tackle an SC but not tank it without an end is lame. Hell, I can make a BS or Command ship tank 20 fighters. SUPER carriers.. SUPER, REALLY?
All that said. The jump range and HP bonus is nice.
A titan can't kill a HIC either, nor can a Dreadnought that isn't a Moros. There's a reason why every time capitals are mentioned, CCP makes sure to say that they are ships that would be used with support fleets.
There should be no reimbursement, why is it suddenly fair (because of the mass whiners) to reimburse supercarrier pilots while other changes in the game that caused small groups of people to lose massive amounts of ISK were 'tough luck'.
And yes, some people will play docking games with supercarriers. The majority of these players will be prime targets to be bumped off station for a fancy killmail. Their offensive output is more or less similar to normal carriers, and there are many examples of failurecascades when they attempt docking games and get the attention of pirates/mercs/bored people/etc.
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Lord Haur
Amarr StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:59:00 -
[1115]
Edited by: Lord Haur on 14/11/2009 00:00:21
Originally by: Capataz There is a realy easy fix for that, remove the ability to dock in low sec just in 0.0 stations and problem solved. Its not made for low sec anyway ;) rest sounds ok to me just give the so called s-carrier a higher drone boni that you can finaly kill after a reasonable amount of time a hic...
still, multiple 30m-EHP ewar-invulnerable docking repairmobiles will make taking sov practically impossible if there is an outpost in system.
Hell, even if there isn't there should be enough RR to keep both the SC's AND the TCU alive...
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:02:00 -
[1116]
Ok, how about:
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Baljos Arnjak
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:03:00 -
[1117]
I think this has been suggested before, but instead of docking, why not let supper carriers be anchored and locked at a pos. Owner hits anchor button, sets the password, and ejects. The fact that it's parked at a pos gives it some protection, but if an enemy attacked while you were away it could end up being vulnerable, thus a major disincentive to do that.
It would be good for letting you go mess around for a couple hours but all-in-all, I would be too paranoid to let it just sit out in space. There would be no docking games with a system like this.
This could also be a good incentive to raid someones space. If they have some motherships parked and not a lot of activity, you might consider going in and killing the pos's that they're parked at. At the very least you would stir up some trouble, and at most you could cost an enemy tens of billions in stupid tax.
Just a thought from a prospective SC/MS pilot...
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:05:00 -
[1118]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux You know what? Let CCP make these changes. Let them make THESE EXACT CHANGES. After a few months of screaming from carrier pilots who can't afford a supercarrier and just about everyone who lives in lowsec, CCP can take another look.
That wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that this is an irreversible change.
Once supercarriers become far more affordable and accessible (IE, a lot cheaper, dockable etc), with them being horribad in singletons but pwnsauce in blobs, players, corps and alliances are going trade in their old carriers for these things. Proliferation will skyrocket.
Once supercarrier numbers have doubled or tripled, which they will, as fast as they can be built, there's no way of going back to the old motherships. There will simply have become too many of them, flown by people who expect to be able to dock.
Once you let the genie out of the bottle, there's no putting him back in. --
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:07:00 -
[1119]
Edited by: RoCkEt X on 14/11/2009 00:10:52
Originally by: The Internets
A titan can't kill a HIC either, nor can a Dreadnought that isn't a Moros.
There should be no reimbursement, why is it suddenly fair (because of the mass whiners) to reimburse supercarrier pilots while other changes in the game that caused small groups of people to lose massive amounts of ISK were 'tough luck'.
1 - titan instapops HIC's... 3mil doomsday = win. 2 - HIC's are no more threat to dreads than any other ship when it comes to tackling. 3 - the build req's of an item have never been changed this way, its stats maybe, but never how much it costs to build. (at least to my knowledge. and never on a ship of this scale) 4 - Bumping carriers is hard enough, good luck bumping motherships.
"Eve was never supposed to become 'capitals online' and capital ships were never meant to be commonplace."
the high price of motherships, and the commitment of a trained character stops them from becoming common. that is the way it should stay
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Zastrow
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:10:00 -
[1120]
are the devs actually talking to each other or are you guys now just randomly undoing a bunch of changes when nobody's looking to troll the forums Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Cold Burn
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:16:00 -
[1121]
I agree with a post someone made earlier - if you want to give current mothership pilots less to complain about, give us a weekend to petition to get docked up and let us refine/reprocess our ships if we want.
Those that refine them to rebuild two after dominion will have to deal with the 4 week build time with no security and the cost of the 2 BPC's
Those that reprocess and sell the components or build other ships, well, then they get a majority of their money back from ships that have lost significant value two months after changes went through and were, seemingly, accepted by both CCP and the players on SiSi.
Quote: ... but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that changes CAN be made, its a question of timing. Changes were proposed two months ago, and nothing was done at that time. If you [CCP] wanted to do something like this, which is a significant reduction in cost, if would have been much more palatable for those of us who built the ships in the meantime to have at least given us a 'heads up, changes may be coming.'
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:21:00 -
[1122]
Originally by: fairimear
Originally by: Lord Power Ok this can be solved if ccp is willing to listen.
1. Super Carriers only allowed to dock in 0.0 space with station upgrade inplace. 2. Super Carriers cannot dock in anything other than 0.0 3. Super Carriers be allowed to fit Jump Portal Generators like the titan, for bridging. That would make something about the name go along with "SUPER" 4. For reimbursement. Make those ships Pre dominion Insurable in stations, for say X-amount 15bil or something, that way when they die, money rembursed minus mods. 5. 5 minute agression timer in 0.0 to avoide station dock/undock games just like the titan cool down timer...
That said alot of supercarrier problems solved.
Wrong. this will still lead to the problem of 20-30 just undocking defending a station and then redocking. no one will take station in 0.0 it will be a disaster. besides we dnt want to dock. we want our expensive but semi usefull dread killer.
The reason half say it wnt be used and the other half say they will be every where is cus this is one of those changes that is so imbalanced and wrong that it litteraly is going to go 1 of those 2 ways. the first nerf before we got the docking and increase to 15 fb. That nerf would of lead to NO one using them. The nerf of docking i lead to a abuse of their hp.
Now if he removes the hp they will once again be useless as no one will use a ship that can still get ganked on station by 20 dreads and costs 6-10 bill. And they wnt be used on the field cus they will be as bad as they are now. - some firepower.
the only real soloution is the original one. expensive ship. can't dock. can kill dreads but wnt survive without fleet backup.
THE reason i think he has done this is because they assume there is a chance that 2030 of these could show up and start raping fields of ships. IF it was lag from drones it was a simple matter of lowering the number and making up the dps with less.
The fix to the problem of 20+ attacking is: A. probably not a issue cus once 1-10 fights happen where 30 turn up then 40 counter them. It just will balance out with less of them cus they get killed by each other. or they wnt be fielded without backup. This will mean super caps will be fighting each other probably. support will be ducking it out around them.
B. The real issue is having more than say 10 super dps ships shooting 1 target any way.. Its boring when 40 dreads shoot 1 dread. It's boring when 40 supercarriers shoot 1 dread. Its still boring when 40 super carriers shoot 1 super carrier.
The problem is people primarying 1 target. its across the board. If you want more sandbox tactics and a eliment of planning a fight ranges ect. YOU MUST LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO CAN SHOOT THE SAME THING
This game, motherships, and the future of both do not just belong to those who already own/pilot these ships.
I agree that there is a need for a total rebalance of the ships, we should allow them to dock, and take away their exclusive status.
You want a big epeen to wave around, go build a Titan. Whatever you do stop talking like you, and only you, have the right to proclaim what "we" want because you already pilot one of these ships.
Its past time to nerf the ships, and bring them in line with other capitals. Though I agree with what others are saying. 30 minute dock and undock counters would be a good start.
-Karlemgne My sig don't fracking work. |
sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:25:00 -
[1123]
i like the new changes :o
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Nobuko Satoishi
Amarr MOTHER-CORP Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:35:00 -
[1124]
I think the thing that people are forgetting is all CCP are doing now is changing numbers in a table in the database
CanDock changes from 0 to 1 MaxDroneDeploy changed from 3 to 1 to 2 etc etc
All these great ideas involving extra counters and locking it down in a pos and everything else thats not a CHANGE to an EXISTING stat means adding more lines of code, with only 2-3 weeks left to deployment the developers of eve are more worried about making sure the EXISTING lines of code are not going to go Wahoonie shaped on D-day. So please keep your suggestions to realistic goals that just involve changing the numbers in an existing table, then you have more chance of the change being implemented rather than asking for pipe dreams at this late stage in play
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:38:00 -
[1125]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: fairimear
Originally by: Lord Power Ok this can be solved if ccp is willing to listen.
1. Super Carriers only allowed to dock in 0.0 space with station upgrade inplace. 2. Super Carriers cannot dock in anything other than 0.0 3. Super Carriers be allowed to fit Jump Portal Generators like the titan, for bridging. That would make something about the name go along with "SUPER" 4. For reimbursement. Make those ships Pre dominion Insurable in stations, for say X-amount 15bil or something, that way when they die, money rembursed minus mods. 5. 5 minute agression timer in 0.0 to avoide station dock/undock games just like the titan cool down timer...
That said alot of supercarrier problems solved.
Wrong. this will still lead to the problem of 20-30 just undocking defending a station and then redocking. no one will take station in 0.0 it will be a disaster. besides we dnt want to dock. we want our expensive but semi usefull dread killer.
The reason half say it wnt be used and the other half say they will be every where is cus this is one of those changes that is so imbalanced and wrong that it litteraly is going to go 1 of those 2 ways. the first nerf before we got the docking and increase to 15 fb. That nerf would of lead to NO one using them. The nerf of docking i lead to a abuse of their hp.
Now if he removes the hp they will once again be useless as no one will use a ship that can still get ganked on station by 20 dreads and costs 6-10 bill. And they wnt be used on the field cus they will be as bad as they are now. - some firepower.
the only real soloution is the original one. expensive ship. can't dock. can kill dreads but wnt survive without fleet backup.
THE reason i think he has done this is because they assume there is a chance that 2030 of these could show up and start raping fields of ships. IF it was lag from drones it was a simple matter of lowering the number and making up the dps with less.
The fix to the problem of 20+ attacking is: A. probably not a issue cus once 1-10 fights happen where 30 turn up then 40 counter them. It just will balance out with less of them cus they get killed by each other. or they wnt be fielded without backup. This will mean super caps will be fighting each other probably. support will be ducking it out around them.
B. The real issue is having more than say 10 super dps ships shooting 1 target any way.. Its boring when 40 dreads shoot 1 dread. It's boring when 40 supercarriers shoot 1 dread. Its still boring when 40 super carriers shoot 1 super carrier.
The problem is people primarying 1 target. its across the board. If you want more sandbox tactics and a eliment of planning a fight ranges ect. YOU MUST LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO CAN SHOOT THE SAME THING
This game, motherships, and the future of both do not just belong to those who already own/pilot these ships.
I agree that there is a need for a total rebalance of the ships, we should allow them to dock, and take away their exclusive status.
You want a big epeen to wave around, go build a Titan. Whatever you do stop talking like you, and only you, have the right to proclaim what "we" want because you already pilot one of these ships.
Its past time to nerf the ships, and bring them in line with other capitals. Though I agree with what others are saying. 30 minute dock and undock counters would be a good start.
-Karlemgne
So let me get this straight. A ship class that is reknowned to be weak and in need of a buff.
A ship class that everyone currently says is relegated to the role of a POS ornament, NEEDS a nerf?
Ladies and gentlemen....Nozh's main spotted? The Light in the Darkness
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Skags
Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:39:00 -
[1126]
How bout leaving them the way they are and set them up so they are a propper mother ship with a larger ship hanger that can carry a small fleet. For those who want them then do what the rest of us had to do save isk train skills and be a slave to the game.
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Atlat's Godess
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:59:00 -
[1127]
Edited by: Atlat''s Godess on 14/11/2009 00:59:51 Crappy Changes as usual
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:59:00 -
[1128]
All letting them dock will do is make them the "must have" ship.
If you really didn't want people to use 20 bombers, then increase the bomber bandwidth and be done with it, the 20 fighters were not broken, as a carrier pilot, I have seen the fighters go down fast enough when they are primaried.
Sure you got a bit of lag, but lag is much better now then it ever has been, in fact the only thing that will make lag worse these days, is ironically the removal of the AOE DD, at least when one of those went off, it blew away all the drones and wrecks on the grid, so the lag would dissipate after a while. The Light in the Darkness
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:00:00 -
[1129]
I just want to know now what was wrong with Abathur's original plan. We're seeing lots of "This is being done to it" "That is being taken from it" but know "We're doing this to it because the original idea was found to be flawed for xyz reason".
To all intents and purposes you had the supercarrier nailed with the original plan that was layed out carefully and planned out in advance, with the kinda preparation that leads to a good patch. Now you seem to be running round trying to nano-patch everything and overshooting the mark, when from from what I have seen, you HAD the right design already.
An ETA on this Dev Blog would also be quite nice to have.
Arca
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Vire Amarr
Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:06:00 -
[1130]
Do CCP sometime check who they recrute ?
Big question ?
Sweet little Dev Nozh , Have you ever used or been involved in a capfleet battle ?
Don't think so.
Changes you intent to do are totally ridiculous.
The first version you guyz had done for testing was very fine and well balanced
4 titan could alphastrike a ms
MS could solo kill Dread and carrier.
Carrier were needed to remote titan or ms
Dread used to kill POS and Supercap.
Very well balanced
Now we have
Titan rocks and can kill nearly everything
MS become useless and people already having a MS loose great money (so do people having some part already done to produce MS).
Carrier pretty much the same as MS
Why would people spend 5 or 10B to produce and use motherships when carrier are nearly as good and 5/10 time less expensive ?
Well MS will remain a useless ship that people would have only for Ego
You had found a good Role for this ship but you finally found the way to mess it all around even worst then before !!! Great idear !
Maybe you need to pay for your staff for some training time on eve so that they can have a chance to test in live the use of their ship
Dmnt you at life
People pay for your pay check !!!! Respect them GoDMT !! Co-CEO Kernel Of War Vire Amarr Capital Inc Kernel Of War >> Faites face a votre avenir
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:12:00 -
[1131]
Originally by: Skags How bout leaving them the way they are and set them up so they are a propper mother ship with a larger ship hanger that can carry a small fleet. For those who want them then do what the rest of us had to do save isk train skills and be a slave to the game.
But but but... you want to avoid EvE degenerating into Space-WoW? You spit on those trillions of new players? Hey, have some respect, some of them played rogue or hunter, they cannot really do that hard stuff in EvE you know? - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Muchnails
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:12:00 -
[1132]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey, Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Hey, can dock?!! with 30M HP?!! you made the capital with god-mode - vivat for undocks wariors
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Vire Amarr
Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:22:00 -
[1133]
I think that CCP have Hacking issues on Forum Dev Accounts !!!!
That is the explaination for all this non sense.
Hummmm ... Someone left if 10 year old son reply with his Dev account !
Seriously Nozh , You should try IQ test because your thinking clearly having a bug.
Total non sense you changes !
I would say that a very good Nerf would a Nerf of CCP Nozh or a Massive boost and injection of Brain tissue.
CCP please do something about this Dev if you all as a team ok with this, Well please give me the adresse cause your stuff seems good :) Co-CEO Kernel Of War Vire Amarr Capital Inc Kernel Of War >> Faites face a votre avenir
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L0nz0p
Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:26:00 -
[1134]
/highfive ccp
me approve last solution!
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:46:00 -
[1135]
CCP Nozh has to be an account to announce bad news or else this is beyond me.
I don't know how the **** you'll gonna repair this mess.
There is no reason whatsoever to do these changes. None.
I don't get it. The proposed changes do make it a lot worse and don't improve anything at all.
Docking Supercarriers. Way to go.
Have fun guys, Greg
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Vector950
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:49:00 -
[1136]
Edited by: Vector950 on 14/11/2009 01:50:06 no docking, return +3 drones, return old cost 12+ bil you may do limit FB by bandthwith and balance BF(damage, radius, velocity etc), BUT no need to balance moms
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:51:00 -
[1137]
Could you at least tell us why you decided to make these changes? We need to know. The changes you made after extensive Sisi testing made sense and we thought they were great. Why are you now backpedaling, removing Motherships from the game, and creating a new shipclass? Before, you were just balancing, now, you're deleting the old and creating a new. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Guterro d'Tefiane
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 02:00:00 -
[1138]
I appreciate that the developers are willing to listen and take suggestions. I also understand that the develops want to make some changes to these ships.
But remember what these ships represent. Supercapitals are meant to be awe inspiring ships. That's what you guys have said yourself from the very beginning. They are the end game that can take years to accomplish. These are the kind of goals that make this game worth playing compared to all the other MMOs out there. If I wanted instant gratification, I'd play something else like WoW, where more and more powerful gear is rolled out every couple of months. Don't take that away from the players, both the ones who have the ships now and the ones who want to get it in the future.
If you are going to do stuff like this, what is to prevent you from nerfing the titan 6 months from now to just another ship? How are we to believe that the same thing won't happen to any new supercapitals you introduce in the future?
And if that is the case, why even bother? A good MMO isn't just about having a good fight when you log on. It is about long term goals that players can be proud to achieve. If you take that away, there is not much reason for people to play the game after a few months.
Keep these ships as the majestic vessels they are suppose to be. There is no reason to reduce their build cost or the number of fighters they can deploy. They don't need to be able to dock. And they definitely shouldn't be just another ship.
If you want to introduce a new class of "supercarriers" then do it, but leave the motherships alone.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.14 02:02:00 -
[1139]
Edited by: Mahke on 14/11/2009 02:02:13
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat Could you at least tell us why you decided to make these changes?
My theory is it was come-to-work-drunk-as-you-can week.
There is no other way to explain the last set of changes.
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.14 02:13:00 -
[1140]
Some people have claimed my criticism of this is due to owning a supercarrier.
I would just like to state that i do not own a supercapital of ANY kind at this time.
SO STFU
here's a fun link for any 1 who feels they need this summing up. thx to chribba for it
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
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Olivor
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Posted - 2009.11.14 02:37:00 -
[1141]
Maybe I'm a 'lil out the loop but since the all V test weekend where MS could kill a Titan 1v1 surely this just makes that particular problem worse?
While introducing all this whining about other problems.
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Minigin
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.11.14 02:58:00 -
[1142]
it has become apparent to me that ccp nozh indeed has a nose! . MINIGIN! The original colour poster - now surrounding you in limegreen.
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Kaeser
Caldari DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 03:07:00 -
[1143]
WTB: Dev with half a clue. Please apply at CCP.
Seriously why has it got to a point three weeks out from your proposed major revision of various mechanics and ships and CCP still seems to have no idea of what it's actually going to implement and how ? And the scariest part is they don't seem to understand the flow on effect of what they're proposing.
CCP, please, if you haven't thought through the repercussions of what you're looking at implementing then hold off and don't implement them until you've have a chance to do so.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.14 03:14:00 -
[1144]
Originally by: fairimear Some people have claimed my criticism of this is due to owning a supercarrier.
I would just like to state that i do not own a supercapital of ANY kind at this time.
SO STFU
GTFO of our thread you nub
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.14 03:15:00 -
[1145]
supercarriers are over rated Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Seneram
Caldari B'haxed Productions The Dominium
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Posted - 2009.11.14 03:20:00 -
[1146]
Originally by: Kleg Nighthawk Edited by: Kleg Nighthawk on 13/11/2009 16:00:43
Originally by: Larkness stuff
The fact that you have the ability to use in game mechanics to get the isk to play via PLEX is re reason that CCP dont listen to you, you might think EVE is just a game but to CCP it's a business, you are literaly just a number, or six of them in your case. they will do what ever they can/need to do to get more new players in that will need to pay with real money. If every body played with PLEX licences there would be no game.
Lol yer forgetting that to buy a PLEX with isk someone have to pay IRL cash for that so if EVERYONE bought PLEXes with isk then there wouldnt be any PLEX being sold HAHA failcake you might wanna read up befor talking. ------------------------------------------------- PewPew |
Needa3
Minmatar BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.11.14 04:20:00 -
[1147]
nice adjustments CCP? do you really think all of us are stupid?
docking blob EW immunegames with ships you nerfed to oblivioun.
get your head out of your arses and start knowing the game.
moms dont need to dock moms need their hp sorted but they all need to get sorted by their carrier counterparts, carriers = armour rep, so is the mom . So not like you've done it so far moms are super caps not supercarriers, don't start playing wordgames with us. You really think we are fools? 20 drones = the least you can do. i prefer 30 tbh
6 bil build cost huh? you guys are getting laid by the blob alliances that want to play the "you-cant-take-dwon-my-rr-msgang" game.
SOV changes my arse, each alliance will put a blob rr-ing ms on the gate and nothing will be abe to take it down.
damm, wish ccp was my company, think i would fire half the dev team on the first day they messed up my playerbase like that and the other half would get fired when they tried giving something back like you are doing now.
don't tell me you had to study to get this dumb?
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Little Cat
A1ONE Inc. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2009.11.14 04:51:00 -
[1148]
I lost the end of their thoughts on the DCU Dock MS-very bad idea, the crowd at undock = lag, no fun, no beautiful game
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.14 04:53:00 -
[1149]
here's a question....
- besides the terribad changes CCP is now proposing....
Can we build moms in OP/Stations now since they will be dockable or do we still have to risk all the components in a POS?
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Spurty
Caldari Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.14 05:43:00 -
[1150]
Edited by: Spurty on 14/11/2009 05:44:56
Originally by: sdchew
PS: If this goes thru, I want an option to reprocess my Mom.
All you have to do is dock it and ... oh wait .. oh no nevermind you can one day!
CCP need to just remove that silly 'can not use smart bombs withing 5km of the station' nonsense and everyone will be happy again.
Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source.
pretty deep coming from you |
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.14 05:53:00 -
[1151]
Hmm, they will be able to dock?
Correct me if I got the numbers all wrong as I'm no expert at docking games and dont own a MS to actually check the stats, but...
- around 30mill EHP?
- 30 second dock timer? Or is it 60?
-> 500k / 1mill dps to pop a MS playing the dock game? Thats like, 400-800 well-fit battleships, or 100-200 dreads?
Do the nodes even handle dumping that many ships into the system at once?
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Ecco Storm
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Posted - 2009.11.14 06:11:00 -
[1152]
Edited by: Ecco Storm on 14/11/2009 06:11:52 Anyone suggest a station\outpost upgrade where you could have limited docking slots for super carriers? Might at least slow down proliferation if you can only dock a handful of them at any given station.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.14 06:26:00 -
[1153]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor Hmm, they will be able to dock?
Correct me if I got the numbers all wrong as I'm no expert at docking games and dont own a MS to actually check the stats, but...
- around 30mill EHP?
- 30 second dock timer? Or is it 60?
-> 500k / 1mill dps to pop a MS playing the dock game? Thats like, 400-800 well-fit battleships, or 100-200 dreads?
Do the nodes even handle dumping that many ships into the system at once?
good points all round ccp are merely making them battle absorbers now plus their anti capital ? sub role. Lots of changes time weill tell Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Diamaht Nevain
Gallente Avatar Union
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Posted - 2009.11.14 06:37:00 -
[1154]
Originally by: Spurty Edited by: Spurty on 14/11/2009 05:44:56
Originally by: sdchew
PS: If this goes thru, I want an option to reprocess my Mom.
All you have to do is dock it and ... oh wait .. oh no nevermind you can one day!
CCP need to just remove that silly 'can not use smart bombs withing 5km of the station' nonsense and everyone will be happy again.
Well I guess that's the real question here. Now that they've revised the numbers, is it the new stats that everyone has trouble with or the station games? If it's the station games then that should be the adjustment right?
I kind of like the increased timers for larger ships idea. If it can die like a normal carrier (just takes longer) then problem solved.
And no, the smartbomb rule should stay. We're talking about carriers not industrials... =============================== Two words: Internet Spaceships |
Arramis
Minmatar ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.11.14 06:42:00 -
[1155]
As I said earlier MS and Titans, needed something done, becouse when you read eula there is not specified about..if you wanna fly an expensive ship ..you have to pay an aditional 15 euros/mounth/ every ****ing expensive ship you fly, it was an ETHIC problem. So the best option was to make a pos module...and thank god finnaly it`s done. BUT now the guys that are saying that is DUMB to make MS dock or Titans ... it`s becouse you forget or ignore the ****ING CONSEQUENCES ... that are ****ING WELL ARGUMENTED in the THIS ****ING THREAD. CCP START FFS TO PLAY EVE ... from 100.000 SP .. and train your ASS up until FLYING a TITAN (or understand what a proffesion is or understand how`s to deal with split weapon sistem .. see naglfar problem ...that was ****ING solved ... and many more) and in the mean time FIRE the DEV TEAM. BUT LOOK! HOW COOL ARE THE STARS! THIS PATCH IS THE WORST PATCH until now. I don`t think you ever had so much complains from the players that give you feedback in your ****ing entire existance, that should raise an question mark! I`m a ****ing upset semi-old eve player, that pays for ****ing 4 accounts. ------------------------------------------ Manelele`s expresia clara a prostiei si inculturii romanesti. |
Jazuz Krist
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:03:00 -
[1156]
maybe you should buy your wife a gift every now and then and get laid instead, you would worry far less about super carriers to spew that kind of crap.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:16:00 -
[1157]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 14/11/2009 07:25:57
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain
Well I guess that's the real question here. Now that they've revised the numbers, is it the new stats that everyone has trouble with or the station games?
It's that the buff was almost universally praised (as close to it as any major change to a class can be expected). Then Nozh came in 3 weeks before release, made enormous, unanounced changes. Waits 2 days to say they are not, in fact, a bug. Proceeds to spew vague crap that makes it clear he has no clue how the actual game plays and with no real reasoning behind the changes except that when the next dev blog comes out we'll all see "the big picture". Then, after pages and pages of angry, angry people he goes "osh*t!", and tries to make things better by increasing explosion velocity (something no one really complained about), doesn't change explosion radius (something everyone pointed out was at horrid levels), puts drones up to 15 from 10 (but lowers f/b damage) and then allows SCs to dock, something every sane person that has provided feedback up to that point had already stated was a bad idea.
I think more than just him making changes people saw as negative to their overall quality, or their ability to dock, it was how it was handled that really caused the rage to brew. Nozh came in last minute and said "no, no, this thing everyone seems to think will work out great is actually wrong, THIS (terribly thought out) idea that I have is right, so I am changing it, last minute, unannounced and I'll get around to explaining it next week sometime." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Valator Uel
Caldari X-pell vae Victis .
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:17:00 -
[1158]
Just occured to me, we need to find a new name for the SUPERcarrier, since it's not super anymore.
Quote: Aya > Hostile tcf gang coming to h-pa Deva Blackfire > ships? Ralarina > Yes, in ships
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fibergunner
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:32:00 -
[1159]
I think Being able to dock is a great idea. I have played for almost 6 years and I would NEVER fly a ship I can not dock. Noone should EVER be forced to have more than one account to play the game. NOone should ever be forced to be stuck in any ship ever. Thats it complain, whine and cry. After playing this long I should beable to dock ANY ship I want. I care not about the emoraging nooblets who do not fly caps, can not afford caps nor have any idea what a large cap engagement looks like. CCP, thank you for making this game a pleasure to play. My two brothers and I have enjoyed it. Thanks for all the great fun. Looks like Super Carriers are going to join the blob just as they should. I am very excited over all these changes. Thanks again CCP .. Cheers.
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Anile8er
Solstice Systems Development Concourse Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:40:00 -
[1160]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 14/11/2009 06:02:06 Hmm, they will be able to dock?
Correct me if I got the numbers all wrong as I'm no expert at docking games and dont own a MS to actually check the stats, but...
- around 30mill EHP?
- 30 second dock timer? Or is it 60?
-> 500k / 1mill dps to pop a MS playing the dock game? Thats like, 400-800 well-fit battleships, or 100-200 dreads?
Do the nodes even handle dumping that many ships into the system at once? And if they do, isnt that kind of a lot of effort to deal with possibly a single player ****ing around?
Dont..... you have that many people and the best thing you could think to do is go **** around with a S/C on a station?
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:44:00 -
[1161]
Im still curious as to why Nozh feels theres a need for a cut-down supercarrier all of a sudden? -
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Anile8er
Solstice Systems Development Concourse Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:49:00 -
[1162]
Grand ideas for all the people crying about docking games....
1. Carriers do this already in low sec.... and 0.0 2. Not every gang in the game is going to have a supercarrier waiting in the station... and most likely the average 5-10 vs 5-10 man gang fight would get completely dominated if even the current Motherships on TQ jumped in on it....
3. Everyone seems to have this misconception that if a supercarrier hits the station then its only right that it dies....
4. Drop your aggro, cut your losses, type GF in local and realize you got out did this time around.....
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:50:00 -
[1163]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: fairimear
Originally by: Lord Power stuff
stuff
This game, motherships, and the future of both do not just belong to those who already own/pilot these ships.
I agree that there is a need for a total rebalance of the ships, we should allow them to dock, and take away their exclusive status.
You want a big epeen to wave around, go build a Titan. Whatever you do stop talking like you, and only you, have the right to proclaim what "we" want because you already pilot one of these ships.
Its past time to nerf the ships, and bring them in line with other capitals. Though I agree with what others are saying. 30 minute dock and undock counters would be a good start.
-Karlemgne
So what gives you the right to tell him to stop talking when you clearly only want a cheap supership that you can afford without regards for balance? Older players wants a good ship to work for, if they must make something to please the crowd they can make a new shipclass with what they are suggesting now and then take away ew immunity for it. "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:55:00 -
[1164]
Originally by: Vire Amarr
Now we have
Titan rocks and can kill nearly everything
Hardly, dps of one dread and a 10 min timer on the doomsday...? yeah thats going to keep them on the field... "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Anile8er
Solstice Systems Development Concourse Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:56:00 -
[1165]
Edited by: Anile8er on 14/11/2009 07:57:12
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Im still curious as to why Nozh feels theres a need for a cut-down supercarrier all of a sudden?
2 weeks ago on SISI one of our MS pilots "melted" a dual rep 6 slot tank Thanatos in under 45 seconds.... he had fighter bombers lvl 4 and 20 bombers out.
People crying about undocking games with these ships would probably be the same people crying in 2 months when they lost 3 aggressed carriers on a station in under a minute to a 3-4 supercarrier hotdrop..... if no change to their damage was made.
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Rewt ed
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:58:00 -
[1166]
this attempt at appeasement after the community rage breaks mechanics.
After breaking mechanics and upsetting the community, threats of bans and deletions of posts then saying community doesn't make decisions is just one huge slap in the face. Community makes the decision either to play or not. To disregard us completely is foolish.
Eve's player base isn't children. We can realize when we're being cheated. Having bad publicity such as "Devs changed the game and made me lose all my stuff" and "I made a post that the dev's didn't like so they deleted / banned me" will effect how new player perceive CCP.
Saying we're giving you isk, and you can now dock is great. But ultimately I'd rather preserve the integrity of in game mechanics over some bells in whistles which will have to be fixed shortly after.
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Nessa Aldeen
Caldari THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:00:00 -
[1167]
Originally by: sg3s Edited by: sg3s on 13/11/2009 22:31:52
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
I agree with Nozh.. let it dock.It's ability to carry ships rigged and a nice maint. bay is useful if it can dock. Those aldy who have MS can get their prices back so what's the whine?
Lessen the tank so that MS doesnt have that 30m EHP, its cheaper anyway, and make it more a dmg dealer. MS shouldnt be exclusive to just 0.0 thats just bull****. And people shouldnt compare it to a Titan, the skills are different. The skills for an MS is not that intensive.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:06:00 -
[1168]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 14/11/2009 08:07:35
Originally by: Anile8er Edited by: Anile8er on 14/11/2009 07:57:12
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Im still curious as to why Nozh feels theres a need for a cut-down supercarrier all of a sudden?
2 weeks ago on SISI one of our MS pilots "melted" a dual rep 6 slot tank Thanatos in under 45 seconds.... he had fighter bombers lvl 4 and 20 bombers out.
People crying about undocking games with these ships would probably be the same people crying in 2 months when they lost 3 aggressed carriers on a station in under a minute to a 3-4 supercarrier hotdrop..... if no change to their damage was made.
Not arguing that the dps was too high or not - but nozh changes are butterflies on wheels if he felt it to be an issue. Theres plenty things he couldve done, like lowering the orbiting range to 3.5km and hp to that of a fighter plus a higher signature radius, making them very vulnearable to smartbombs and supportships as example - instead of making supercarriers am entirely new (worse) class 2 weeks before dominion hits.
And that is just if he really felt the dps was an issue, i personaly dont but am biased ;) -
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padshiiangel
REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:23:00 -
[1169]
Edited by: padshiiangel on 14/11/2009 08:23:26 CCP do not be ***** do not make the game worse, or as WOW where if the lost ship can go back and get a new one.
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SamtheDog
EVIL ALTS Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:24:00 -
[1170]
Edited by: SamtheDog on 14/11/2009 08:25:15 I'd like to take a different perspective on these changes and why the player base is so increadibly angry over these changes. I own two motherships, so I can say that these changes have affected me, and for the following reasons.
CCP has changed. The days of a smaller group of people working on a project that everyone seems to have loved and enjoyed playing has ballooned into a bureaucracy of people who's skills may not be relevant to the enjoyment of gameplay. This in particular relates to Nozh's actions and his perspective attitude towards the player base. I'll give you an example. I've played this game for nearly 6 years. I have a large number of accounts and in real life I'm actually an English Professor (I am a laywer by training since I went to Law School). Many corpmates are people who hold professions that require a higher than average IQ. In many cases, these people are good at looking at problems and solving 'puzzles' that are sent their way. This is a human factor that can be very hard to predict beyond the intended gameplay mechanics that EVE was first developed on. We play the game, but EVE has morphed into something much better than it was originally planeed, since the player base took it that way.
Now I don't know Nozh on a personal level. For all I know, he may be a genuinely nice guy. As I tell my students "Don't hate people, hate the actions they do." is something that I try to think about before turning into a fit of rage that results in long postings of just venting. We as players understand how the game is played and how small changes can affect gameplay. The changes to the SC's and Titans allowed players who own them to believe they had a real chance of surviving a real engagement. The human character allows us to anticipate these battles, and since EVE is primarlity a game of anticipation with moments of increadible intensity and satisfaction, the changes have essentially created a real sense of feeling cheated with a bait-n-switch by an employee of CCP.
IMHO, Nozh does not play EVE. Fair enough, but it becomes also apparent that people who spend a fair amount of time tweaking to only have these changes changed very soon before a major patch without any regard for the human factor in gameplayer is disturbing far beyond what we read here. Yes people became angry, then posts were deleted, threatened with being banned and then summarily dismissed. This is being done to a player base that are not children mind you, but mostly working professional adults. It's insulting and increadibly arrogant to simply dismiss concerns we have towards changes that would alter the gameplay of EVE that we know will result because we have seen similar circumstances before. But Nozh dismissive attitude is widly inappropriate. I could not even buy that much bad publicity if I wanted to. When newer players are curious about EVE, what will they read? Postings of forum postings being deleted, complaints about Dev's ignoring users and players losing months of hardwork and being told 'too bad'. Would that help you as a new player make the decision to want to sign up? I find that the negative publicity surrounding this can permeate other sites, boards, forums and newer players will be put off by many comments. That is something that was most likely not considered, and quite frankly disturbing when these changes were made. We've seen these actions before in other MMO's, and the results were disasterous (ie: SWG).
The 'reverse' changes by Nozh is more an appeasement than anything else and does not actually fix the problem but creates a whole new dimension of gameplay. I understand that CCP must be very careful on how they approach this. Comments can be held on the net forever and they don't go away. Careful consideration must be taken before changes are made and the population must be consulted. Changes should be small but significant, not dramatic. Allowing SC's to dock changes EVE completely in "Never underestimate greed or stupidity...you can always see it emerge in the end" |
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:26:00 -
[1171]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 14/11/2009 07:25:57
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain
Well I guess that's the real question here. Now that they've revised the numbers, is it the new stats that everyone has trouble with or the station games?
It's that the buff was almost universally praised (as close to it as any major change to a class can be expected). Then Nozh came in 3 weeks before release, made enormous, unanounced changes. Waits 2 days to say they are not, in fact, a bug. Proceeds to spew vague crap that makes it clear he has no clue how the actual game plays and with no real reasoning behind the changes except that when the next dev blog comes out we'll all see "the big picture". Then, after pages and pages of angry, angry people he goes "osh*t!", and tries to make things better by increasing explosion velocity (something no one really complained about), doesn't change explosion radius (something everyone pointed out was at horrid levels), puts drones up to 15 from 10 (but lowers f/b damage) and then allows SCs to dock, something every sane person that has provided feedback up to that point had already stated was a bad idea.
I think more than just him making changes people saw as negative to their overall quality, or their ability to dock, it was how it was handled that really caused the rage to brew. Nozh came in last minute and said "no, no, this thing everyone seems to think will work out great is actually wrong, THIS (terribly thought out) idea that I have is right, so I am changing it, last minute, unannounced and I'll get around to explaining it next week sometime."
You left out the fact that he wants to make them cost 5-6 bill isk to build which will make too many of them hit the battlefield for stalemate cap battles. |
King Dave
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:30:00 -
[1172]
ouch - can i err..? Have my stuffs ccp?
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Master Arrow
Trinity Capital Endeavors Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 08:31:00 -
[1173]
Edited by: Master Arrow on 14/11/2009 08:31:10
Originally by: Anile8er Edited by: Anile8er on 14/11/2009 07:57:12
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Im still curious as to why Nozh feels theres a need for a cut-down supercarrier all of a sudden?
2 weeks ago on SISI one of our MS pilots "melted" a dual rep 6 slot tank Thanatos in under 45 seconds.... he had fighter bombers lvl 4 and 20 bombers out.
People crying about undocking games with these ships would probably be the same people crying in 2 months when they lost 3 aggressed carriers on a station in under a minute to a 3-4 supercarrier hotdrop..... if no change to their damage was made.
BULL**** |
Ilya Pasternak
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 08:40:00 -
[1174]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
So it's official, then. The developers at CCP have seriously lost their collective minds. I especially loved the "don't need to commit" portion of your statement. It shows you really know your game.
For once, CCP... listen to your player base. When you first started testing Dominion on SiSi, 90% of the eve player base was excited. For once, most if not all of the changes proposed WERE GOOD. You were on track. Everyone was happy. Then you go and do stupid idiotic crap like this.
What's wrong with you people? Did your IQ's drop significantly? Do you guys even understand what you're doing to your game?
|
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 08:42:00 -
[1175]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 14/11/2009 08:45:09 Edited by: Karlemgne on 14/11/2009 08:42:53
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
So what gives you the right to tell him to stop talking when you clearly only want a cheap supership that you can afford without regards for balance?
First of all, what gave you the impression that *I* want to pilot one of these ships? Where exactly did you divine this bit of information? And its so precise, not only do *I* want to fly them, but I want them cheap and unbalanced.
Listen, bro, somebody can have an opinion about game mechanics without having some hidden agenda.
That is all this is, an opinion. To be perfectly honest, I fly in low-sec, always have. I shoot people in the face for fun, that's what I do. I fly subcap ships. I've owned a carrier for over 2 years that has never fired a shot in anger (I've used it to move stuff twice). I have no interest in piloting a MoM.
I also have no interest in maintaining this caste system in eve either, where there is a whole bracket of ships that only belong to those who are super-rich in game, and have enough disposable income to afford multiple accounts.
As for my disagreement with the original quotee, he has every right to his opinion, and to express it here. My complaint was his use of the word "we." What I got out of his rant was that he, and the other current MoM pilots, were the only ones with the legitimate right to make comments about changes to "their" ships.
This language of exclusivity and privilege just irritates the **** out of me. EVERYONE ELSE has just as much right to an opinion about the future of the game, and motherships, as the members of his lonely cadre do.
Quote: Older players wants a good ship to work for
I've been playing this game for going on 4 years now. I've got over 60 million skill points. Try not to lecture me about what older players want, because I think I qualify as an "older player." And as I've said earlier in this post and this thread, I don't give to ****es about "working for," purchasing, or flying a mothership. To me capital ship warfare and the good ole' 0.0 primary, pop, primary... lag.. lag.. ctd just don't do it for me.
What ****ing excites me about dominion is the faction cruiser changes and the fleet issue typhoon/domi.
I prefer small gang low-sec pirating. That's what this older player looks forward to when he logs into eve everyday.
So maybe YOU should stop thinking that all "older players" want the same thing as you. My sig don't fracking work. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 08:44:00 -
[1176]
Originally by: Master Arrow BULL****, WTB: Thanatos that can fit 2x reppers and 6x hardeners
He said dual rep 6 slot tank ie 2 reppers and 4 hardners not dual rep and 6 hardners.
Ontopic. Moth.. err supercarriers will be able to dock?! Hot damn maybe I'll arse myself to get a supercap after all.
|
Master Arrow
Trinity Capital Endeavors Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 08:47:00 -
[1177]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Master Arrow BULL****, WTB: Thanatos that can fit 2x reppers and 6x hardeners
He said dual rep 6 slot tank ie 2 reppers and 4 hardners not dual rep and 6 hardners.
Ontopic. Moth.. err supercarriers will be able to dock?! Hot damn maybe I'll arse myself to get a supercap after all.
I still say BS, I tested many hours on sisi with the supercarriers, and 45 secondes is just talking out his arse |
Hurricane Carter
0ccam's Razor Varangians.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 08:53:00 -
[1178]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Surprisingly enough I can live with that...
that'd mean at 5 skills it can poop out 15 Fighters/Fighter bombers (yes 20 was nice but hey... can't have it all i guess)
Can DOCK ! (No more character imprisonment !!!!! )
tbh... I am happy to trade in the 5 baseline drones I just lost for the ability to dock... don't see what everyone else is getting riled up about any more to be fair.
they "only" lost 5 drones baseline, and where given the ability to dock... i'd take that change any day of the week tbh..
|
Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 08:55:00 -
[1179]
I blame Mynas..
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:05:00 -
[1180]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 14/11/2009 09:08:20
Originally by: Hurricane Carter
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
Surprisingly enough I can live with that...
that'd mean at 5 skills it can poop out 15 Fighters/Fighter bombers (yes 20 was nice but hey... can't have it all i guess)
Can DOCK ! (No more character imprisonment !!!!! )
tbh... I am happy to trade in the 5 baseline drones I just lost for the ability to dock... don't see what everyone else is getting riled up about any more to be fair.
they "only" lost 5 drones baseline, and where given the ability to dock... i'd take that change any day of the week tbh..
the big concern is station hugging with them, there should be a undocking "sensor racalibration timer" and a "redocking timer" added to them to keep this from being exploited, also they need to change the price to build back to 12 bill (or 11 if you keep the clone vats out) so that eve doesnt get spammed with too many of them. The people saying they want one but cant get them because they cant afford it, oh well, it wasnt meant to be a "everyone gets one eventually" ship. It is meant to be a majestic ship that has extreme value and use to an alliance that can turn the tide on the battlefield. Plus the explosion radius on compact citadel torps needs to be fixed so they dont automatically to 50% less damage to a capital ship. |
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Plave Okice
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:09:00 -
[1181]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
This is so, so wrong.
If you go ahead with this expect petitions from everyone in Eve who ever had anything nerfed and lost money.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:12:00 -
[1182]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 14/11/2009 09:12:18
Originally by: Plave Okice
Originally by: CCP Nozh Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
This is so, so wrong.
If you go ahead with this expect petitions from everyone in Eve who ever had anything nerfed and lost money.
nothing has ever gotten nerfed as far as build cost specifically altered by CCP Devs except for the proposed supercarrier change.....other things that have changed price drastically were on the basis of supply and demand via the market, hence the reason for the reimbursement, however, the build cost definately should not be changed in the first place |
Chagaline
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:22:00 -
[1183]
nothing has ever gotten nerfed as far as build cost specifically altered by CCP Devs except for the proposed supercarrier change.....other things that have changed price drastically were on the basis of supply and demand via the market, hence the reason for the reimbursement, however, the build cost definately should not be changed in the first place
This is exactly true. Things have lost cost in the past, but mostly to marked mechanics , or minor nerfs, this is the first HUGE direct game mechanics change, and build cost change. and 5-10bill is simply to much=( And i also agree, shouldnt have happened in the first place. I hoenstly dont understand why. KEPP OLD BUILD COST
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Luc Ferros
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:25:00 -
[1184]
Seriously Plave go suck a big fat one
as above poster said in the history of eve this has never happened. The change in build cost of a ship resulting in its over all value decreasing substanially to the point where its insane. Whats insane? Ohhhhhh say 10 billion isk that every Mom pilot who has one alread faces to lose when the price goes down! Oh wait your gonna say your not losing it youve already spent it, but thats FALSE cause if i was to sell my Wyvern today, at value of build i would get 14.5-16 depending on the quality of bpc/bpo you were comparing it to.
So you come here with your empire mindset thinking man my CNR runs lvl 4's golden, and all these mom pilots are idiots for complaining. And we all say Go F yourself cause you have no idea what its like to invest in a 15 bil ship spend a third of the ships price just in officer mods, and then to find out that the ship is getting reduced by 2 thirds its value!
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:27:00 -
[1185]
I don't even know what to think of this game anymore tbh.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:43:00 -
[1186]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/11/2009 09:45:40
Originally by: Baljos Arnjak I think this has been suggested before, but instead of docking, why not let supper carriers be anchored and locked at a pos. Owner hits anchor button, sets the password, and ejects. The fact that it's parked at a pos gives it some protection, but if an enemy attacked while you were away it could end up being vulnerable, thus a major disincentive to do that.
It would be good for letting you go mess around for a couple hours but all-in-all, I would be too paranoid to let it just sit out in space. There would be no docking games with a system like this.
This could also be a good incentive to raid someones space. If they have some motherships parked and not a lot of activity, you might consider going in and killing the pos's that they're parked at. At the very least you would stir up some trouble, and at most you could cost an enemy tens of billions in stupid tax.
I like it, but then again, I have no intention of ever flying the bloody things… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:55:00 -
[1187]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 09:56:31 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller drones) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:08:00 -
[1188]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 14/11/2009 10:09:15
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 09:56:31 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller drones) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on
This guy has my vote to take CCP Nozh's place as dev......but you still forgot to mention fixing the explosion radius of compact citadel torpedoes |
glassmanipulator
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:19:00 -
[1189]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:09:15 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
This sounds pretty nice tbh..
I really think its important to keep the build cost..
It's not fair to people to make something worth 1/3 as much in one day. There is much further reaching market implications than you can see or try to reimburse.
The mods that go on these ships alone cost several bil a piece.. who wants to put 10 bil of mods on a 6bil ship.. no one.
|
Bodo Bass
Minmatar Fanta pants
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:25:00 -
[1190]
I think it's time we point the professional gaming press to this thread before CCP sends them away with some nice cover up storiers about the new patch.
CCP keep you're ****ing hands of our motherships and titans as you've clearly proven you've got no clue whatsoever you are doing.
FFS never seen this, how stupid can a company be. And those nubs that go like// "i can live with this", or "thank you ccp for giving something back" FU
CCP is not doing anything besides killing these beautiful ships with stupid changes that they don't understand themselves.
Motherships (and thats the only ****ing right name)
- need the hp boost (with thoughtover assigned points- hel = armour and not shield you morons) - need more dps - still need the clonevat bay - need at least 20 drones - need a decent remote ECM burst or similar - need to cost at least 17 bil on the playermarket
|
|
Dratic
Honour Bound Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:30:00 -
[1191]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect engame for regular players. We need our dreams.
This is nice.
I definately think there is space for a new capital. A cap that can dock imo isn't a super cap. Having a capital that can launch fighter bombers but alot less of them is closer to a strike/offensive carrier. Something that doesn't constantly play the support role. A carrier which can be a damage dealer and is accessible.
|
Amy Wang
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:32:00 -
[1192]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 14/11/2009 10:33:54
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
this man has more then just "a" clue, props!
although I would prefer no docking or 24h docking timer like a JC tbh
The thing with indiscriminate docking is, you are opening Pandora's box kinda, the biggest hurdle (or so they say) for people to get a supercap is the char imprisnonment "feature", without it they will get inflationary (extremely inflationary at the reduced price) and once you allowed docking there is no turning back! People will reightfully expect to be able to dock them, cant change that without making forums explode with angry carebears and bitter old vets like me saying "told you so" :P
So my order of preference (1 is best 5 is pretty bad)
1) old price, no docking 2) new price, no docking, reimbursement for current owners 3) old price, docking with long timer 4) new price, docking with long timer (>30mins, ideally 24h), again reimbursement ofc 5) new price, docking w/o limitations (this would be pretty silly)
|
Guterro d'Tefiane
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:48:00 -
[1193]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect engame for regular players. We need our dreams.
Lots of nice suggestions.
Right now it looks like you guys want to introduce a new class of ships that is somewhere between a carrier and a mothership. But instead of introducing a new ship, you've decided to just change current motherships into this new ship class.
The current changes seem to be very rushed and not well thought out. If the developers need more time, then wait. Leave the motherships unchanged for this patch and spend more time to get it right.
Because if you go ahead with the proposed changes, there is no going back, especially if the build cost is reduced. I hate to think what would happen if months down the line you introduce a new mothership with the current build costs and similar abilities and force players to start all over again. That would not go well.
-Keep the HP buff. -Keep the 20 drones and fighters. -If fighter bombers are doing too much damage, reduce it down to 15 or 10 and make adjustments as needed so they're useful. -Keep the current build costs. -Work on the drone control units and ECM burst so that they are more useful. -Keep the EW immunity. -Don't let it dock. Docking games with supercaps isn't fun or needed. -Keep the mothership name. -And work on a new ship class that specialize in fighter bombers, cost around 5 bil, and is a step between carriers and motherships. This ship doesn't have EW immunity, can dock, and have a decent amount of HP to do its job.
There, everyone will be happy. I know that is a lot to ask, but might as well try.
|
Serena Ku
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:52:00 -
[1194]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect engame for regular players. We need our dreams.
I am Serena Ku and I approve of this message.
Do it please CCP, fair win/win all around in my opinion.
|
karnor hulltanker
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:07:00 -
[1195]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect engame for regular players. We need our dreams.
AMEN BROTHER !! very nicely said :)
You should get a job at CCP and knock some sense into these potheads
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Jags
Minmatar M. Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:18:00 -
[1196]
Originally by: Bodo Bass
- need the hp boost (with thoughtover assigned points- hel = armour and not shield you morons)
Quoting this , most of the Hels ive seen in game are armor tanked as it was the better option previously IMO anyway.
Will CCP remvoe my implants and rigs and stuff as they are no longer useful given the large changes to the HP setup ?
|
Tertius Caedes
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:35:00 -
[1197]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect engame for regular players. We need our dreams.
/signed
|
Gliding
Eye of God
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:47:00 -
[1198]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect engame for regular players. We need our dreams.
Wat i was goin 2 say
|
Equinox II
Nex Exercitus IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:59:00 -
[1199]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect engame for regular players. We need our dreams.
Good ideas, CCP take note.
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Saul Reaver
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 12:01:00 -
[1200]
Originally by: sg3s Once again, whining seems to have actually helped.... *sigh*
Although I do agree previous changes were somewhat over the top.
Whining? Well, Why don't you spend 6 months of non stop mining/ratting/plexing for a ship only for it to be nerfed to hell and back and see how you feel? We are not talking about Battleships and carriers which are **** easy to build. These ships take alot of time and effort to save for and build and every future/current Supercarrier pilot has every right to voice their concerns over their investment.
|
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xplosiv
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 12:03:00 -
[1201]
So explination for this s**t storm?
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Shasis
Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 12:06:00 -
[1202]
Silly docking games with semi-Supercarriers now.
Dominion clearly spotted as worst expansion ever in EvE...
Next step: cynos in hisec? Bombs in empire ?
Seriously...
The "Nerf/community legit whine/ok, we well half the nerf to pass through the community" politics of those days makes me sad, CCP. I thought you were better than that, obviously I was wrong.
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Fogy
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 12:22:00 -
[1203]
Originally by: xplosiv So explination for this s**t storm?
Brain damage.
"EVE Online: Shenanigans" http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0911/Anti-Mothership-Nerf-Sig.jpg
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 12:24:00 -
[1204]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 12:24:07
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 11:58:19 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect endgame for regular players. We need our dreams.
Addendum: Like others have suggested previously. What youre looking into is a T2 carrier, just set skill reqs to lvl 5 carrier and whatever else to lvl 5 as prereqs, change the paintjob, up the HP to somewhere between carrier and ms like one third of MS. Stats can be tweaked as long as their "purpose" is decided before release (Work in Progress). The community seams to have defined their role together with you in this thread.
Whatever thoughts u had about a "future mothership", dont we already have a supercapital that kinda lacks purpose (at least with current sisi stats)? Can't ur grand thoughts for future features be incorporated in the two ships we now have?
Tweak what we already have, add new content to fill gaps. Don't change what we have and then later put something else in its place...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.14 12:40:00 -
[1205]
LOL.
Pirates cry harder than the carebears they always smack on about.
Want your dummy's back?
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.14 12:55:00 -
[1206]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 11:58:19 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect endgame for regular players. We need our dreams.
This is what they should have done from the beginning. It now seems CCPs idea for MOMs developed during the testing process to a totally different type of ship from the original. Now they seem to try to appease everyone with their one bomber carrier, instead of leaving the buffed MOM as is and just creating a new carrier to meet those new additional goals. Your proposed plan seems much more reasonable and better for all concerned.
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King Dave
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Posted - 2009.11.14 12:59:00 -
[1207]
Originally by: Mkiaki LOL.
Pirates cry harder than the carebears they always smack on about.
Want your dummy's back?
Carebears cry more about losing 10% of their income which they havn't got, imagine if CCP took 10 billion isk from them each.
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:01:00 -
[1208]
TBH,
I'm pretty sure the CCP nolonger want your Nyx's, Aeons, Wyverns and Hel's to continue being end game top of the food chain ships....
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=696
I'm starting to change my perceptive on the issue and probably believe they should be nerfed a considerable amount to make way for new ship classes in future. Not that this would make current owners (including myself) happy however with some sort of compensation (that didn't create rampant deflation in a specific market) it could work even though it would be a bitter pill.
However, if they are going to become dockable...
Drastically cut the ship maintaince bay, corporate hanger size Increase the max jump range, but give a fuel consumption penalty Increase capacitor size (by 2-3 times) but reduce the overall base cap recharge to less than previous Cannot use triage Reduce highslots to 5. Give specific 1-24 hour redocking timer Possibly reduce remote repearing range bonus 15 Fighter bombers Reduce max velocity of fighter bombers to 700m/s 1900m explosion radius for compact torpedoes
Now it's focused for damage dealing and anti-capital operations...
You could even make another super capital focused to logistics (both travel and fleet) giving each capital a purpose instead of just rampent power creep.
A real mothership when eventually introduced would probably be higher than a Titan on the food chain, if and when the CCP where able to actually dedicate resources to making on. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:06:00 -
[1209]
Originally by: King Dave
Originally by: Mkiaki LOL.
Pirates cry harder than the carebears they always smack on about.
Want your dummy's back?
Carebears cry more about losing 10% of their income which they havn't got, imagine if CCP took 10 billion isk from them each.
Ahh, but you pirate types claim to be tough and able to handle anything , and here you are screaming about internet spaceships, and fake cash
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:10:00 -
[1210]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 14/11/2009 13:10:33 Don't feed the (really awful) professional trolls guys. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:13:00 -
[1211]
I`m out of words...
You had: - Ship that cost 16-20 Bil ( limiting factor ) - Not dockable ( another limiting factor ) - Did 2x Damage then normal carrier with drones and fighters - Had a REAL anti capital weapon in the fighter bombers
Now you have: - Ship that costs 7-10 Bil ( More people can afford it ) - Dockable ( No need for a dedicated character ) - Combat ship that will also work as a logistic ship, I guess many will use it as one ( 2,5 mil ship array, can bring your own personal hangar everywhere you go ) - Massive HP buffer, hello undock/docking games - EW immune, no way to break their spider tank.
So basically CCP used 2 months with testing, got good feedback. No words at all that they where looking at such drastic chahnges. Then suddenly 2 weeks before expansion they turn everything upside down. Makes them basically useless. And now, 3 days later they suddenly gives the "thumbs up" to make em dock. And opening a whole new can of worms in the process...
You are now making the supercarrier all that will be needed in fleets or large engagements.
Get 30 supercarriers, worth about 180 bil, chump change for a big alliance, spider tank the crap out of each other and you are looking at ships with 30-40 mil EHP, with a 90000 DPS spidertank. And about 45000 DPS damage if everyone can field 15 fighters.
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Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:24:00 -
[1212]
An utterly ridiculous idea - and appallingly implemented.
Turned from an awesome idea into something suicidal. Well done.
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Ne0tr0n
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:26:00 -
[1213]
everyone stop discussing how the new supercarriers can be or what not
there is no ****ing compromise in any form for nozh
change the SC back to last weeks state or remove it from the game! thats 2 possibilities you have, no more no less
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:27:00 -
[1214]
Originally by: TZeer Edited by: TZeer on 14/11/2009 13:22:50 I`m out of words...
You had: - Ship that cost 16-20 Bil ( limiting factor ) - Not dockable ( another limiting factor ) - Did 2x Damage then normal carrier with drones and fighters - Had a REAL anti capital weapon in the fighter bombers
Now you have: - Ship that costs 7-10 Bil ( More people can afford it ) - Dockable ( No need for a dedicated character ) - Combat ship that will also work as a logistic ship, I guess many will use it as one ( 2,5 mil ship array, can bring your own personal hangar everywhere you go ) - Massive HP buffer, hello undock/docking games - EW immune, no way to break their spider tank.
So basically CCP used 2 months with testing, got good feedback. No words at all that they where looking at such drastic chahnges. Then suddenly 2 weeks before expansion they turn everything upside down. Makes them basically useless. And now, 3 days later they suddenly gives the "thumbs up" to make em dock. And opening a whole new can of worms in the process...
You are now making the supercarrier all that will be needed in fleets or large engagements.
Get 30 supercarriers, worth about 180 bil, chump change for a big alliance, spider tank the crap out of each other and you are looking at ships with 30-40 mil EHP, with a 90000 DPS spidertank. And about 45000 DPS damage if everyone can field 15 fighters.
Some numbers for fun:
Average DPS from a sniping BS is about 350 to 400 DPS. Lets say 400 DPS. With a 90000 DPS spider tank, you would need 225 BS just to get even with the tank. With an average volley damage of 3000, you do 675000 in volley damage...
Excellent post.
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Clone 1
Occision
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:34:00 -
[1215]
Docking supercarriers ? Are you completely mad?
This was discussed for a few seconds at the capital roundtable at fanfest, and rightly so laughed off as insane by the dev at the table. It was mentioned that maybe, and really maybe that an upgrade to outposts would allow these ships to dock, but would cost a lot.
How can you go from this sanity to the complete and utter tripe that you propose just weeks before patch?
-------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:41:00 -
[1216]
Originally by: Clone 1 Docking supercarriers ? Are you completely mad?
This was discussed for a few seconds at the capital roundtable at fanfest, and rightly so laughed off as insane by the dev at the table. It was mentioned that maybe, and really maybe that an upgrade to outposts would allow these ships to dock, but would cost a lot.
How can you go from this sanity to the complete and utter tripe that you propose just weeks before patch?
Vodka
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Tarac Nor
Caldari Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:43:00 -
[1217]
From what i can tell from the changes to the changes etc i give props to CCP for attempting to compromise. you just need a class between the new moms and titans. Also props for a possible compensation to current builders and people selling current moms. You wont please everyone and trying to is just foolish. But i still think that docking is totally from left field i wasn't expecting that.
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Glassback
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:56:00 -
[1218]
Can you make them use gates and acceleration gates so I can run missions in them? Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist |
Kochi Pikla
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:59:00 -
[1219]
you guys can create a tech2 carrier with your actuall "supercarrier" bonus and leave the motherships alone. nozh you really suck at understanding things and you really suck at creating stuff you have no imagination... but all answers you need are write by your customer (lol4u) in this thread , so you should take a day to read it or maybe leave the project design to an other guy...
nozh
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Gneeznow
Minmatar Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2009.11.14 14:00:00 -
[1220]
cant wait for the whines about station hugging games with unkillable motherships in huge dock radius stations after this goes live, because believe me thats what this ship is gonna be used for most once they can dock
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 14:17:00 -
[1221]
Originally by: Gneeznow cant wait for the whines about station hugging games with unkillable motherships in huge dock radius stations after this goes live, because believe me thats what this ship is gonna be used for most once they can dock
Yes, and your point is?
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.14 14:48:00 -
[1222]
Why the Vets are ****ed 101:
Producers:
- Capital Component BPO Set: 25 Billion
Mothership BPO: 16-17 Billion Research: 0.5-1.0 Year Production Training: .5 Year Capital Ship Assembly Array: 1 Billion Death Star POS: 1-3 Billion Mineral/Component Investment: 12 Billion sitting in a POS for 3 weeks
These assets have been slashed in value. BPOs of this order are like Ed Norton in Fight Club... (paraphrased)"..That was the last couch I would need to buy, if anything happens I always have that couch..." My point is yes things happen and investments become lower in value, with mothership uselessness over the last few years, the Producers have already been dealing with that. Older Producers only advantage is they had more time to pay themselves back on their investment, newer producers are still in deep debt to themselves for the blueprint purchases.
Pilots: Veteran Pilots are ****ed and they should be. Think of things like this, when you buy a car for the first time, you either buy a crappy one, or get a good loan (or bad one) and pay for years to get the car. Then when it's time for a new one you trade in the old car which still has some considerable value if you took care of it. That's what Motherships are in eve. Just like Rarities like the Guardian Vexors/Fed Issue/State Issue/Tribal/etc. Only difference is they aren't 1 of a kind, but still hold their value considerably due to the resources required to build them.
For most vet mom pilots when they think about their mothership they think to themselves, if things are ever so crappy I can just sell that investment and get some cash back for a new project/thing/shiney. CCP just took that away from them, by depreciating the value to 60% what they paid.
Newer Pilots love the idea of sticking it to the bitter old vets because we vets have only advantages in their eyes. Except the years of wasted training, removed skills, revamped mechanics, nerfs, boosts, changes and etc we've had to deal with over the years.
I see a lot of people posting about how these ships shouldn't just be for the richest people in eve. Well I know many mom Pilots, I am one, and I spent a very long time mining/plexing/missioning/trading to buy mine. Now I'm getting ready to buy another, and I've already invested the last year into the project in training the pilot and another character to garage it, mining ice, running missions, daytrading in jita, Jump Freightering goods to nullsec, scouring contracts for deals and selling some assets to meet that goal.
So to all new players I say this, when you're ready to make the time investment, get one. Making them cheaper just screws over too many people new, mid-age and vets alike.
Docking would be great at first, and I would really like this so I can cancel the two garage character accounts. Believe me I would like to save that 600mil isk a month on two accounts I really don't use for anything but parking SuperCaps and market checkers.
As a counterpoint to the proliferation of the ships due to docking, most will probably never undock as most lowsec is patrolled by badasses like Cry Havoc or Beyond Divinity with Dread Fleets Hotdrop Ready. We will see some funny failmails I can guarantee that.
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kaplowwwwwwwwwwwww
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:00:00 -
[1223]
I support leaving these ships alone and making a new class of carrier that costs 6bill and can use 10 fb's
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Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:03:00 -
[1224]
Originally by: McFly
As a counterpoint to the proliferation of the ships due to docking, most will probably never undock as most lowsec is patrolled by badasses like Cry Havoc or Beyond Divinity with Dread Fleets Hotdrop Ready. We will see some funny failmails I can guarantee that.
agreed wi most of the post above, and much as i'd like to use us as a darwinian method of removing station camping supercarriers (much like various dreads/carriers over the past year), the sheer scale or nukin one of thse shipsmakes it unviable for even a hel... 2mill raw armor... say 50s from jumpin/seige/lock.... just not gonnae happen unless you bring a huge blob n then you have lag/desync to figure in too...
allowing supcaps to dock = bad, no matter how they try n dress it up... moms pilots have always had to work out how to run garage accs/cyno alts etc its part of the parcel when u get the ship
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:03:00 -
[1225]
Originally by: McFly
As a counterpoint to the proliferation of the ships due to docking, most will probably never undock as most lowsec is patrolled by badasses like Cry Havoc or Beyond Divinity with Dread Fleets Hotdrop Ready. We will see some funny failmails I can guarantee that.
Yea, we are totally gonna drop 200 dreads on a MS...
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ByFstugan
Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:06:00 -
[1226]
There are an insane amount of emo atm; with many posts mostly smacking and namedropping, very often without any motivation to the reasons. The largest topics is the docking and the price, and the solution is that "there is no other solution but to keep it as it is" from most people. Now I get that people are against change, that's common for humans - but the narrowmindedness that goes with it is not called for (however typical humant that also might be).
The docking! This is not something that's impossible to implement without ruining the game, it just need to be made wisely. Possible solutions: - Make the SC's not able to use offensive modules within or to close to dockinggrid at stations. (similar solution as for smartboms in empire) - Make SC's only able to dock in upgrades player owned stations. - Make SC's only able to dock in player owned stations (with restrictions in use?) - Stop being obsessed with what U think a super capital is and how the SC's should be defined and let the game evolution have its course.
The pricing! There's an idea of this ships should not be to common, mostly due to old way of thought. Possible solutions: - Stop being obsessed with what U think a super capital is and how the SC's should be defined and let the game evolution have its course. - Let more ppl enjoy more ships and not only the filthy rich.
Someone else above (MS owner) said that the changes for SC's might be a good change for the future (even if it hurt him abit), to give room for new supercapitals in the future. I think that's so, and in all that many need to stop being obsessed with what U think a super capital is and how the SC's should be defined and let the game evolution have its course. Did I say that already? :)
It looks in much as a borderline party in this thread where all suggestions are either (mostly) very stupid or the only one to make (or not make). There must be a more sane way to make arguments for what should or should not be implemented in this topic. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Raiga88
Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:07:00 -
[1227]
CCP EITHER ROLL BACK THE CRAZY CHANGES
OR
ATLEAST GIVE US SOME OF THE STUFF YOU ARE SMOKING/DRINKING
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sg3s
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:19:00 -
[1228]
Originally by: Saul Reaver
Originally by: sg3s Once again, whining seems to have actually helped.... *sigh*
Although I do agree previous changes were somewhat over the top.
Whining? Well, Why don't you spend 6 months of non stop mining/ratting/plexing for a ship only for it to be nerfed to hell and back and see how you feel? We are not talking about Battleships and carriers which are **** easy to build. These ships take alot of time and effort to save for and build and every future/current Supercarrier pilot has every right to voice their concerns over their investment.
I'm not saying that the new changes were a bad thing, well I guess I am, but I also said that the changes that went before were over the top... In fact totally irrational if you think about it...
The problem with it is that it seems as if it's only been player *cough*feedback*cough* that stimulated the change, same as with sov mechanics... It's ruining the forums, I do not wish to see threads 80% flame and outcry rather than constructive feedback over every little change in the future...
If you read up a few more pages (page 36) I posted a reply what my biggest concern is with these new changes (as many pointed out, the docking part), together with a possible alternative.
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thebarry
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:39:00 -
[1229]
It seems quite obvious to me that ccp is just interfering with all the supercarrier speculation that's been going on. When the '5-6bn build cost' didn't shake things up, they went with the fake nerfbat. They're probably giggling at this threadnought...
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:43:00 -
[1230]
Originally by: Mhorbaine
Originally by: McFly
As a counterpoint to the proliferation of the ships due to docking, most will probably never undock as most lowsec is patrolled by badasses like Cry Havoc or Beyond Divinity with Dread Fleets Hotdrop Ready. We will see some funny failmails I can guarantee that.
agreed wi most of the post above, and much as i'd like to use us as a darwinian method of removing station camping supercarriers (much like various dreads/carriers over the past year), the sheer scale or nukin one of thse shipsmakes it unviable for even a hel... 2mill raw armor... say 50s from jumpin/seige/lock.... just not gonnae happen unless you bring a huge blob n then you have lag/desync to figure in too...
allowing supcaps to dock = bad, no matter how they try n dress it up... moms pilots have always had to work out how to run garage accs/cyno alts etc its part of the parcel when u get the ship
yah last bit was pretty weak argument was trying to come up with something that would at least have a bright side.... outpost pummelling will be a nightmare with 10 moms sitting there RRing for hours on end without aggression, and without fear. Hell with the new alarms on Shield/Armor/Hull, the pilots could go watch tv and just keep and ear out for the alarm to dock (free repair in outpost if your alliance does that) and get back to work.
Can't wait to see Lord Maldador's Pantheon Mothership Video.
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CONCORDOKKENED
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:44:00 -
[1231]
If supercarriers will actually be able to dock, there should be no compensation at all considered; each of these players no longer have to run an additional account/character garage which they'd be able to sell to someone wanting to hop into a supercarrier very easily.
It's also setting a precedent that would most certainly come back later in future changes. Don't cater to the whiners, they'll keep playing no matter what happens.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:49:00 -
[1232]
Originally by: thebarry It seems quite obvious to me that ccp is just interfering with all the supercarrier speculation that's been going on. When the '5-6bn build cost' didn't shake things up, they went with the fake nerfbat. They're probably giggling at this threadnought...
considering they've actually made the changes on sisi, in description of the items and tables. Well I really don't think it's a sham, unless the bosses prefer to see their dev's hours spent on enraging the customer base. Which I really doubt.
at least they didnt have zulupark announce it that poor boy is still recovering from the last time the nerf bat was aimed at carriers/moms...
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kaplowwwwwwwwwwwww
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:54:00 -
[1233]
Originally by: CONCORDOKKENED Edited by: CONCORDOKKENED on 14/11/2009 15:46:23 If supercarriers will actually be able to dock, there should be no compensation at all considered; each of these players no longer have to run an additional account/character garage which they'd be able to sell to someone wanting to hop into a supercarrier very easily.
It's also setting a precedent that would most certainly come back later in future changes. Don't cater to the whiners, they'll keep playing no matter what happens.
Also remove their ability to use remote-rep capital modules to prevent giant ewar immune spidertanks.
stfu
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Ordais
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:31:00 -
[1234]
They wanted to introduce a new ship? They should have done so. They wanted to remove MoMs? They should have done so. (just replace old ones with isk/components/whatever)
But what you are doing here is one of the dumbest things you have done lately, and you have done your share in the past. Is this the downside on scram-teams you so prise these days? Get your game-change every 2 weeks, as another team is working on them? Screw it up 2 weeks later with another team?
CCP has focused alot the past years to get more professional, or so they claim, hiring more ppl, but in the process they are getting slower on reaction-times (how long did you need to change sov again? to see how bad the DD was? the list is long...) and there is a concerning influx of other "publisher behaviours" going on now (the latest forum-topic-locks? trying to sneak in such drastic changes and keep it as quite as possible? pretending to listen to your playerbase by putting things on a long long list and then saying you needed years working issues out, who are you kidding?).
They say "we need time to make well thought out changes". Yea right, we see how well thought out you are doing "changes"...we have the best example right in front of us.
You wonder why we are all ****ed off? Well, isn't your motto something like "hardn the *uck up" in your rep-song? Well, back at you.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:33:00 -
[1235]
Originally by: ByFstugan
- Let more ppl enjoy more ships and not only the filthy rich.
The non "filthy rich" have fairly good access to every ship in game except 2 (excluding uniques) and that isn't enough?
Quote: Someone else above (MS owner) said that the changes for SC's might be a good change for the future (even if it hurt him abit), to give room for new supercapitals in the future.
So...new supercapitals like the one we were going to have before Nozh came out of his cage? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Phoenix vajaa
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:37:00 -
[1236]
Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49
41 pages. 35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats. 5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.
1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.
NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP. NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:48:00 -
[1237]
Well, if they wanted to make lowsec anymore **** they've achived it. I'm not looking forward to 3mil EHP supercapitals playing station games. ---
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:50:00 -
[1238]
Edited by: SolarKnight on 14/11/2009 16:53:06
Originally by: Phoenix vajaa Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49
41 pages. 35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats. 5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.
1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.
NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP. NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.
This.
Rollback the changes, and if you must make a ship that can field 10 - 15 bomber drones, make a new ship, or at very least, leave the 20 fighters alone and increase bandwidth of the bombers.
Don't change what isn't broken. The Light in the Darkness
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Fleur D'oranger
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:00:00 -
[1239]
I was going to get one before the changes. I'm still going to get one. I'm glad they're going to be able to dock. I'm glad they're cheaper and will be more likely to get used for something besides camping low sec gates by Rens (yeah, I'm looking at you Tri).
So they aren't solo-pwnmobile / status symbol anymore. Docking, a price that makes losing them not the end of the world, a specific role to play other than griefing = win. Hold where you are, CCP.
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Ryan Powers
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 17:00:00 -
[1240]
Originally by: Phoenix vajaa Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49
41 pages. 35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats. 5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.
1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.
NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP. NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.
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Aurorae Andromedae
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:09:00 -
[1241]
Chill out, they are just testing you guys out and lol'n right now
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Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 17:10:00 -
[1242]
Originally by: Phoenix vajaa Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49
41 pages. 35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats. 5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.
1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.
NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP. NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.
Speaking as someone who one of these days might actually bother to sell his mothership char (superwut? pffft.) and who would profit greatly from these changes - but recognises that docking solopwnmobils is ******ed, f'in /signed. -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
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The Nastrond
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:15:00 -
[1243]
Originally by: Ryan Powers
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.[/b]
Or perhaps they figured out that ewar immune, 30m+ EHP, 12,000+ DPS ships were monstrously unbalanced (since their usage would skyrocket, 15-20b is easily affordable nowadays) and they decided to make them more reasonable.
Can you honestly say that the old sisi supercarrier changes wouldn't cause problems down the line? Unlike the titan AoE DDD, they stopped this one before it became problematic.
If the costs are being reduced, to stop the proliferation of large masses of supercarriers, insurance payouts should be removed completely on ships of this size class as well. Otherwise you'll see them being thrown about like today's carriers/dreads.
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:17:00 -
[1244]
Docking a supercarrier? Anywhere?
Perhaps I might consider one someday. But seriously, I thought the whole "docking supercarriers" was this big controversial thing. Why is CCP so quick to just come out and say, "Fine fine fine, 15 drones and you can dock. Happy?"
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:18:00 -
[1245]
Originally by: The Nastrond
Originally by: Ryan Powers
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.[/b]
Or perhaps they figured out that ewar immune, 30m+ EHP, 12,000+ DPS ships were monstrously unbalanced (since their usage would skyrocket, 15-20b is easily affordable nowadays) and they decided to make them more reasonable.
Can you honestly say that the old sisi supercarrier changes wouldn't cause problems down the line? Unlike the titan AoE DDD, they stopped this one before it became problematic.
If the costs are being reduced, to stop the proliferation of large masses of supercarriers, insurance payouts should be removed completely on ships of this size class as well. Otherwise you'll see them being thrown about like today's carriers/dreads.
They will not stop proliferation by removing insurance on these things. you generally build supercapitals knowing you cannot insure them.
Also, the solution to making them more common is to drop the price? are you crazy? so to stop them becoming common you make them CHEAPER?
If they are able to dock, then everyone and their mother is going to buy them, they will obsolete carriers and we will see every low sec station/gate/WH entrance camped by these things.
If they had issues with the dps of the bombers, then adjust the dps of the bombers, don't gimp every other balanced aspect of the ship. The Light in the Darkness
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evilempire0
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:26:00 -
[1246]
I dont mind motherships be able to dock aslong as you change the aggresion timer to scale with the size of ships like I suggested at fanfest this year IE motherships have a 5-10m aggro timer on station it will solve the problem with undocking games and still allow motherships to dock [url=http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=evilempire0][img]http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/signature.php/string,evilempire0/tpl,userbar_Minmatar/signature.png |
Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:29:00 -
[1247]
Yo, just dropping by this thread on day 3 of "CCP went full ******"-comedy.
Stopped raging and began laughing at the mess about a day ago.
Have fun with the ****up and look at the bright side guys.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 17:29:00 -
[1248]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 14/11/2009 17:35:09
Originally by: The Nastrond 30m+ EHP
Exactly which supercarrier had 30m+ EHP and 12K dps? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
LAZMAN
Esto Perpetua
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 17:32:00 -
[1249]
Originally by: Phoenix vajaa Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49
41 pages. 35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats. 5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.
1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.
NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP. NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.
this
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:33:00 -
[1250]
all the people clamoring about a 30min redock timer you suck it's a terrible idea :|
Just make so that if you are hic pointed you can not dock, end o story.
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Natasha Coutah
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:42:00 -
[1251]
I thank you For considering the POST with the reinbursement for current supercarriers. A few issues i wish to address are the following. 1.Due to the new Supercannon on titans you removed there ability to attack POSes. New 5-6bn MoMs will flood the market and there EWAR immunity which they should have will make them the primary fleet to attack POSes and MODs because unless there is a interdictor the pos or defenses pretty much can do zero even if manned. 2.Seeing i understand the point to make these ships like the Supercarriers of the world today these things must be taken into thought. A: Recucing fighters/bombers in sense removes the versitility and ability to defend the Supercarriers making it nothing more then a Carrier with More HP. To classify as somthing a supercarrier in RL it had to have Survivability,Versitility,and Longevity which is what it seems like your trying. Docking is not an issue as to you already have that covered in upgrades. B: Survivability you have with EWAR immunity and Enhancement of its EHP. C: Versitility you helped with the implimentation of bombers howeever limiting there numbers as much as done removes it from being a commanding pressence. D: Longevity you enhanced alittle by makingit able to jump alittle farther but if this is big its not enough.
Supercarriers IRL are a rarity and only the richest nations can afford them you need to consider this in your modifications in game because obviously there are alot of pilots already and the numbers will flood in smaller costs.
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Susy Assulu
Caldari Atomic Mexicans
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:44:00 -
[1252]
Originally by: Phoenix vajaa Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49
41 pages. 35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats. 5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.
1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.
NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP. NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.
This, and the people saying you can't insure super caps blah blah blah. You can insure super caps the devs will put you in the station afaik.
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:02:00 -
[1253]
So you took something that actually looked good for a change and made it bad, then took that situation and made it even worse?...
I really don't know what to think of CCP anymore, nozh has obviously never played the game a day in his life and I cannot believe that the senior devs would allow some halfwit to ruin sel and companies work.
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Max Teranous
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:13:00 -
[1254]
Free Abathur !
Max
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:14:00 -
[1255]
Originally by: Max Teranous Free Abathur !
Max
This The Light in the Darkness
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:15:00 -
[1256]
my take on this is that Abathur and all his team went to christmas vacations and left Nozh on the wheel. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:21:00 -
[1257]
Originally by: Grimpak my take on this is that Abathur and all his team went to christmas vacations and left Nozh drunk at the wheel.
fixin' this here post
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:22:00 -
[1258]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Grimpak my take on this is that Abathur and all his team went to christmas vacations and left Nozh drunk and high at the wheel.
fixin' this here post
Fixin' your fix The Light in the Darkness
|
Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 18:23:00 -
[1259]
Originally by: Ryan Powers
Originally by: Phoenix vajaa Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49
41 pages. 35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats. 5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.
1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.
NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP. NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.
|
Pteranodon
Caldari Stealthfield Ihatalo Cartel Navy
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 18:27:00 -
[1260]
Originally by: Maria Dalin Well, Hopefully someone within CCP reads this and realizes what they are about to do with the game. Im one of them luckey few that have bought 2 ms's within the last 4 weeks, so ill lose like what? 30b? on this insane crap. Really wish someone within CCP would grow a pair of balls and acctually comment on this..
I bought a flat screen TV. The price is now 1/3 of what I paid. Did I go back to the shop & ask for a refund- no. The timing of your purchase is somewhat unfortunate but alas prices can & do change. Perhaps what sticks in your throat more is the fact that CCP sold you the sizzle & all your getting now is a raw sausage with little meat.
I suspect that there are reasons behind the changes to the motherships which are political & as such we never might not get to know CCP's real intent or why we were mislead in the way we were & that for me is the sad part.
So, CCP continue to take our monthly subs- feed us bullcrap then shaft us where is hurts most & leave us with the only option to put up with it or biomass.
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Jaron Terrkin
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:29:00 -
[1261]
Edited by: Jaron Terrkin on 14/11/2009 18:31:39 I absolute agree with the previous poster.
Get back to you r frist idea ccp that was the best one :)
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 18:30:00 -
[1262]
Ok so here's what I'm seeing
Sov 4 breaks
The mom cost is cheap BUT still is 4 weeks before skills and such.
Mom has ewar immunity... even though that means practically nothing. Mom gets ehp boost.
Mom loses 5 drones and gets the ability to dock.
From what I am seeing. They have balanced it such that losing a baby mothership in the csaa isnt bad as now. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 18:32:00 -
[1263]
Originally by: Jason Edwards Ok so here's what I'm seeing
Sov 4 breaks
The mom cost is cheap BUT still is 4 weeks before skills and such.
Mom has ewar immunity... even though that means practically nothing. Mom gets ehp boost.
Mom loses 5 drones and gets the ability to dock.
From what I am seeing. They have balanced it such that every existing supercarrier pilot now hates ccp to the point of self destructing their ships meanwhile every pirate suddenly has a wet dream and the game approaches NGE status.
fixed The Light in the Darkness
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 18:33:00 -
[1264]
Originally by: Pteranodon
I bought a flat screen TV. The price is now 1/3 of what I paid. Did I go back to the shop & ask for a refund- no. The timing of your purchase is somewhat unfortunate but alas prices can & do change. Perhaps what sticks in your throat more is the fact that CCP sold you the sizzle & all your getting now is a raw sausage with little meat. .
This is not a good analagy. The reason why? When I bought my Plasma, I *expected* and *knew* that newer technology would come out and the value of my TV would decline over time.
In this situation though, we expect the "market" value of the ship to change based off of how usefull and in demand the ship is...in addition to mineral prices.
But having the "build price" change because the devs want to tweak the components used, that is not something that normally happens nor could one expect. I want the difference in build cost - not market cost - refunded to me.
The easiest way to do this is allow me to dock pre-dominion and refine my ship so I get all of the original parts back and recoup that money.
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AL G0RE
Intergalactic Hunters of ManBearPig
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:59:00 -
[1265]
Edited by: AL G0RE on 14/11/2009 18:59:53
Originally by: Pteranodon
I bought a flat screen TV. The price is now 1/3 of what I paid. Did I go back to the shop & ask for a refund- no. The timing of your purchase is somewhat unfortunate but alas prices can & do change. Perhaps what sticks in your throat more is the fact that CCP sold you the sizzle & all your getting now is a raw sausage with little meat.
I suspect that there are reasons behind the changes to the motherships which are political & as such we never might not get to know CCP's real intent or why we were mislead in the way we were & that for me is the sad part.
So, CCP continue to take our monthly subs- feed us bullcrap then shaft us where is hurts most & leave us with the only option to put up with it or biomass.
Best Buy
"What if I find a lower price at another Best Buy store or on BestBuy.com?
If an item you purchased at Best Buy is advertised at a lower price at another Best Buy store in your local area or on BestBuy.com, we'll refund you the price difference from our own sale price during the exchange and return period on your product. Simply bring in your original Best Buy receipt to the customer service counter while that lower price is still in effect."
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:08:00 -
[1266]
*IF* supercarriers will be able to dock *THEN* the docking-mechanics SERIOUSLY need a remake.
For example: ship-specific docking timers.
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Mynas Atoch
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:10:00 -
[1267]
Is there ANYONE who thinks these changes will go live ... or even last a few days past Monday, when the grown-ups get back in the office and meet with our dearly demented CCP Nozh?
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:15:00 -
[1268]
FREE ABATHUR
______________________________
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Zarazaa
Scarlet Blood
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:16:00 -
[1269]
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 10:17:06 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect engame for regular players. We need our dreams.
I am Serena Ku and I approve of this message.
Do it please CCP, fair win/win all around in my opinion.
I am not Serena Ku and i do not support this message!
I have a beter one..
1'st Keep price changes in place, that will allow moms to be fielded in resonable numbers and actualy have an impact on the outcome of a cap fight, not like now, when you see the odd 4-5 moms in most cap fights, and have 0 impact on the end result..
2'nd Allow them to dock only in Outposts/Conquerable Stations where Repair Services can be incapacitated, that will prevent lol docking games in Low Sec and NPC Null Sec Stations..
3'rd the 15 Fighters/Fighter-Bombers are okish, allthough you can allways turn back to 20 Fighters and double the Fighter-Bmober bandwidth so that if can only pull out 10, either way it will work imo..
4'th The hitpoint boost, it's beyond ridiculous and gives the mesure of the 'Ttitan Rebalancing' fail..
Pretty nice job CCP.. why don't you do a simmilar one with the Titans!?
ps. Serena Ku is a peach!!
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Clone 1
Occision
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:19:00 -
[1270]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch Is there ANYONE who thinks these changes will go live ... or even last a few days past Monday, when the grown-ups get back in the office and meet with our dearly demented CCP Nozh?
I dont know if these changes go live, or if Nozh is on some mad solo bender but the last time a nerf of this order happened he really wanted us to spread the blame.
CCP Nozh : "We expected such a drastic change to result in a lot of feedback. We did not expect the requests to prematurely end dear Zulupark's existence in this universe, some of which were *very* imaginative and in more ways than we thought possible. We'd like to point out all design matters are ratified in groups, so in the future, please include at least Hammerhead, Oveur and our janitor in any ill thoughts you may have as a result of EVE's direction. "
Linkage
I know the changes are annoying, but for me what is more annoying is the way these changes are ratified and presented, especially given the work Abathur was doing with testing, and information presented at fanfest, which was completely thrown out the window with things like massive build cost cuts and dockability. Which show more of Nozh's opinion of the capital community than his balancing ability. IMOSHO. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
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Nessa Aldeen
Caldari THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:30:00 -
[1271]
the emorage is strong in this one..
Why shouldnt the SC be able to dock? It may be big but the price isnt that of a titan and neither are the skills. And prices have been dropping even before the announcement.
And no to the suggestion of nerfing the maintenance/corp hangar array thats just dumb. This ship is about the least used ship for the capital category. Halving it makes sense, letting it dock makes sense. Who wants to be in a ship that u cant get out of minus the titan? Make this ship more accesible and let it be more used in fleets.
And for those who think it wont die, think again.. if titans can die to BS fleets, SC will die too if not even faster. And for whats it worth do u have the balls to fly 6-10b ship in pvp knowing it will?
I think most people who whine here abt how Nozh is <insert negative adjective> didnt read his post.. he said subject to changes.. so really, chill people and stop emoraging like a bunch of wow whiners.
Reduce the armor (maybe twice that of a carrier no more than that), increase the dmg and ffs let it DOCK!
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Kkhaarn
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:31:00 -
[1272]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
I can live with this!!!! I will take the cut in drones for docking in stations! <3 THANK YOU! Now lets work to make these changes permenant for Dominion. :_)
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Kalissa
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:41:00 -
[1273]
I've got a Wyvern and I can live with the proposed changes, I'm not happy about losing 5 fighters but that is offset by the ability to make it dock and with the addition of the fighter bombers.
Compensating us pilots who stand to make a drastic ISK loss on the ships is good too. I still think the Supercarriers need a little tweeking defensively though, but as I said as they stand I can live with it.
I think it's ironic though there are probably more people complaining about the changes than actually own one.
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Lachender Henker
The Illuminati.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:54:00 -
[1274]
The changes of the attributes of the Supercarriers created a lot of tears and argues. But not so many proposals to fix/balance things. So i made up my mind a little bit...
Heres my idea: I think that it¦s time to implement SUBSYSTEMS on Supercarriers. Each subsystem has advantages and penatlties, for example:
A Drone Subsystem:
+25% Fighter, Fighter-Bomber Bay Capacity -25% Armor-, Shield HP, Hull HP per Module
So you force the player to choose if they want to live longer or deal a lot of damage. And use this system as a way of balancing. In numbers: A supercarrier can still launch +3 Drone/Fighters/Fighterbombers per Level from the start, but without a Drone Subsystem the supercarrier will only have room in their Fighterbay for 10 Fighters/F-Bombers. (Normal Drones get their seperate Bay) As soon as you add a single "Drone Subsystem" you will be able to fit 15 Fighters/F-Bombers and you will loose 25% of your armor hp,hull and shield hp, because you need room for more drones. High DPS Supercarriers will have a lot less HP => Balancing
So a System with 2 Subsystem slots would give us for example (Drone wise):
2x Drone Subsystem: 20x Drones, 20x Fighter,20x Fighter-Bombers ( that you can launch ) -50% Hp
1x Drone Subsystem, 1x XYZ-Subsystem: 20x Drones, 15 Fighter,15x Fighter-Bombers ( that you can launch ) -25% HP
2x XYZ-Subsystem
20x Drones, 10 Fighters, 10x Fighterbombers ( that you can launch )
Advantages of this system: Even if you fit other Subsystems you will still be abe to launch 20 normal drones, but just 10 fighters/f-bombers.So your abiliy of defending against tacklers and sub-cap ships are still decent by using standart drones. But what you do NOT have is: Massive DPS and Masssive Hp. You have to choose...
Theres some more Subsystems i thought of to make it more interesting: -Increased jumprange -Remote ECM Burst Bonus -Armor Bonus -Shield Bonus ... the list you could implement is pretty long. Oh and forgive me i am not good in finding good names for those subsystems :(
To wrap it up: Taking an idea from the T3 ships, which are pretty popular because you can customize your ship,and combine it with a shipclass that has been discussed and argued about for ages now. The players set their penalties and advantages themselves and it opens up huge potentials for fleets.
So i hope my idea was kinda understandable. I do not read a lot in the forums so forgive me if this system was suggested for supercarriers somewhere else, but afaik i never heard of it before.
Supercarriers and Docking: I fly a Nyx for nearly 2 years now and i do not really need to dock to be honest. But since some ppl like to see it happening, i have an idea aswell:
It should be a docking "AT" stations not "IN" stations. Meaning you can establish a connection to the station but you still be outside and can be shot. The only things you will get are bonses to certain things like : cap-recharge rate, shield-recharge rate and repair bonuses. You also will be able to use the fitting tool, access your hangar, and access the market. Lowsec factions can take docking fees or certain fees for repping structure or whatever. In 0.0 space alliances can choose what they want to charge for it.
I mentioned that you can be shot... This is to avoid docking games which are pretty boring. You also will not be able to use offensive modules while you are linked with the station. You have to close the connection before you can, so you will not see any station boosted supertanks+drones. The station can provide some cover, but will not be able to save you everytime=> no hiding in station. In additionits it is possible to set some intervals for connecting and disconnecting with the station. Lets say 1 minute to eshablish a connection and 30 seconds to disconnect. This also will asure that you take a huge risk to "dock" at a station. Since you can not run away instantly if a hostile jumps in.
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Nessa Aldeen
Caldari THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:55:00 -
[1275]
Originally by: Kalissa I've got a Wyvern and I can live with the proposed changes, I'm not happy about losing 5 fighters but that is offset by the ability to make it dock and with the addition of the fighter bombers.
Compensating us pilots who stand to make a drastic ISK loss on the ships is good too. I still think the Supercarriers need a little tweeking defensively though, but as I said as they stand I can live with it.
I think it's ironic though there are probably more people complaining about the changes than actually own one.
Exactly.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:57:00 -
[1276]
Originally by: Kalissa
I think it's ironic though there are probably more people complaining about the changes than actually own one.
Possibly because they can see themselves owned by one after the insane proliferation of them since making it the dock faggot wet dream.
This just cannot go in without fixing aggro/dock mechanics. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
apolloedv
Caldari Congregatio Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:58:00 -
[1277]
I wish also the follow things
Zitat:
-Keep the HP buff. -Keep the 20 drones and fighters. -If fighter bombers are doing too much damage, reduce it down to 15 or 10 and make adjustments as needed so they're useful. -Keep the current build costs. -Work on the drone control units and ECM burst so that they are more useful. -Keep the EW immunity. -Don't let it dock. Docking games with supercaps isn't fun or needed. -Keep the mothership name.Very Happy -And work on a new ship class that specialize in fighter bombers, cost around 5 bil, and is a step between carriers and motherships. This ship doesn't have EW immunity, can dock, and have a decent amount of HP to do its job.
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Mr Prong
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:05:00 -
[1278]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451 if even HALF the people here complaining about the change, and subsequently threatening to cancel their accounts, actually followed through on their threats...CCP would have something to be worried about.
the problem is, this happens before EVERYmajor patch. Some huge change hits and people cry. Remember the ship HP buff? how about Nano-nerf? Now Moms are being changed in a way adverse to what you all might want, and here we are, a thread full of whiney babies.
You dont like it, dont play....but as far as I can see, 9k DPS out of a mothership is pretty beefy. Quit your raging and either take it like a man/woman...or quit like you say you will.
I like this response, who gives a **** anyways. You buy it, you have fun with it, it's cheaper to get, there is a new way to play the ship....all pluses to me, lets all be positive about the changes. It's not like you will lose it after the patch.
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seliana tanis
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:13:00 -
[1279]
Originally by: Lachender Henker ....
Quite liking this idea tbh.
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Jediwifebeater
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 20:35:00 -
[1280]
For those of us that have built there MS from scratch all the time and effort plus cost seems like a big foot has gone right up my turtles house. The cost alone is massive but the logistics has anyone in CCP tried building a MS of Titan.
Build another class of carier around the 7-10billion keep the MS/Super Carriers as they are, the new MS should cost around 30-40billion almost the same as building a station if this is what the new MS will be like.
If you do go ahead with the changes you need to compensate everyone who is flying one with ISK it almost better to blow the MS up now and get insurance before the patch.
Im not to bothered about the other changes just the cost differance and a waste of many hours it seems to have been a complete waste of my time and dont forget about the wife screeming at you to come to bed - be there soon justing abuilding a ship i could have been busy doing other stuff ;)
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Taarna Galin
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:47:00 -
[1281]
Edited by: Taarna Galin on 14/11/2009 20:54:15
Originally by: Kalissa I've got a Wyvern and I can live with the proposed changes
Besides uber hp, station griefing and lulspider tanking with lots of other SCs and carriers, I just don't see where nozh's SCs fit in. Their DPS against subcaps is 25% worse than it is now and their DPS against dreads (thanks to huge explosion radius) is significantly worse than what a dread does (sans nyx, which is close) and is destroyable to boot. He wants them to specialize in shooting "moving" caps aka carriers/SCs/titans, but these tend to make up a very small portion of a cap fleet and carry smartbombs.
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Kochi Pikla
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:53:00 -
[1282]
i want my 20 fighters( i dont give a **** about your fb) i dont want to be able to dock with my ms i want you to call them ms not supercarrier i want a pics of ur mom then feel free to create a tech2 carrier call it supercarrier ...
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Ka'lorn Font'a
Amarr Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:56:00 -
[1283]
Edited by: Ka''lorn Font''a on 14/11/2009 20:58:44 Why change what isn't broken?
Abathur's proposed, and tested changes were fine. If there are concerns with Fighter damage being too excessive, then reduce the damage that those 20 fighters would do to the level of what 15 fighters do.
There's no need to screw over the fact that Motherships can deploy 20 fighters/drones (fighters are fine, drones are fine, neither were ever considered overpowered).
By allowing Motherships to dock, you are opening a huge can of worms which, to be frank - should have been thrown out the design meeting the second it was raised.
Nor should the price be changed, there's 400+ Motherships around EVE as it is currently (probably closer to 1000, including alts/in production), you don't want 5000+ of them running around (which is what will happen, if the proposed cost reductions are implemented). If you can't see much of a bad idea injecting trillions of ISK into the economy is (10b x current number of mothership pilots), then I wonder what exactly you've been smoking in the office as of late.
I actually feel sorry for Sel/Abathur, as he has expertise in this area that - I'm willing to bet, would blow the combined experience of the rest of the development team out of the water.
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:04:00 -
[1284]
Originally by: Ka'lorn Font'a Edited by: Ka''lorn Font''a on 14/11/2009 20:58:44 Why change what isn't broken?
Abathur's proposed, and tested changes were fine. If there are concerns with Fighter damage being too excessive, then reduce the damage that those 20 fighters would do to the level of what 15 fighters do.
There's no need to screw over the fact that Motherships can deploy 20 fighters/drones (fighters are fine, drones are fine, neither were ever considered overpowered).
By allowing Motherships to dock, you are opening a huge can of worms which, to be frank - should have been thrown out the design meeting the second it was raised.
Nor should the price be changed, there's 400+ Motherships around EVE as it is currently (probably closer to 1000, including alts/in production), you don't want 5000+ of them running around (which is what will happen, if the proposed cost reductions are implemented). If you can't see much of a bad idea injecting trillions of ISK into the economy is (10b x current number of mothership pilots), then I wonder what exactly you've been smoking in the office as of late.
I actually feel sorry for Sel/Abathur, as he has expertise in this area that - I'm willing to bet, would blow the combined experience of the rest of the development team out of the water.
/Signed.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:10:00 -
[1285]
Originally by: Ka'lorn Font'a Edited by: Ka''lorn Font''a on 14/11/2009 20:58:44 Why change what isn't broken?
Abathur's proposed, and tested changes were fine. If there are concerns with Fighter damage being too excessive, then reduce the damage that those 20 fighters would do to the level of what 15 fighters do.
There's no need to screw over the fact that Motherships can deploy 20 fighters/drones (fighters are fine, drones are fine, neither were ever considered overpowered).
By allowing Motherships to dock, you are opening a huge can of worms which, to be frank - should have been thrown out the design meeting the second it was raised.
Nor should the price be changed, there's 400+ Motherships around EVE as it is currently (probably closer to 1000, including alts/in production), you don't want 5000+ of them running around (which is what will happen, if the proposed cost reductions are implemented). If you can't see much of a bad idea injecting trillions of ISK into the economy is (10b x current number of mothership pilots), then I wonder what exactly you've been smoking in the office as of late.
I actually feel sorry for Sel/Abathur, as he has expertise in this area that - I'm willing to bet, would blow the combined experience of the rest of the development team out of the water.
/Signed The Light in the Darkness
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kapten sortebil
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:29:00 -
[1286]
http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/pdf/QEN_Q3-2009.pdf
426 Characters in Moterships. Page 6/25
And yes i canceld 4 accounts after this stupid nerf.
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:34:00 -
[1287]
Originally by: Ka'lorn Font'a Edited by: Ka''lorn Font''a on 14/11/2009 20:58:44 Why change what isn't broken?
Abathur's proposed, and tested changes were fine. If there are concerns with Fighter damage being too excessive, then reduce the damage that those 20 fighters would do to the level of what 15 fighters do.
There's no need to screw over the fact that Motherships can deploy 20 fighters/drones (fighters are fine, drones are fine, neither were ever considered overpowered).
By allowing Motherships to dock, you are opening a huge can of worms which, to be frank - should have been thrown out the design meeting the second it was raised.
Nor should the price be changed, there's 400+ Motherships around EVE as it is currently (probably closer to 1000, including alts/in production), you don't want 5000+ of them running around (which is what will happen, if the proposed cost reductions are implemented). If you can't see much of a bad idea injecting trillions of ISK into the economy is (10b x current number of mothership pilots), then I wonder what exactly you've been smoking in the office as of late.
I actually feel sorry for Sel/Abathur, as he has expertise in this area that - I'm willing to bet, would blow the combined experience of the rest of the development team out of the water.
Sod the thread, this is the best reply here.
Quoting for the whole truth.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:01:00 -
[1288]
OI bet this idea came form the same person that had the idea to NERF the naglfar to a status worse than it was last year. 5% damage per level and 5% missiles rof per level.
WTF? What is goign on at CCP gama belance department?
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Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:02:00 -
[1289]
Originally by: Seishi Maru OI bet this idea came form the same person that had the idea to NERF the naglfar to a status worse than it was last year. 5% damage per level and 5% missiles rof per level.
WTF? What is goign on at CCP gama belance department?
A giant party in worship of arrival of CCP Beer, he has brought two dancing emu's and a triangular hippo from his travels to the Jovian embassy on Uranus**
** May not be true, but it's a factual account based on the changes proposed in terms of sense/sanity.
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Sofia Swift
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:10:00 -
[1290]
Edited by: Sofia Swift on 14/11/2009 22:10:16
Originally by: McFly
Can't wait to see Lord Maldador's Pantheon Mothership Video.
LMAO .. for real tho.. just make them only able to dock every 1-2 hours it solves everything.. if you undock your committed for awhile.
AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE KEEP THE BUILD COST THE SAME
you have no way to even start trying to reimburse these pilots because the market implications are farther reaching than you can see. All the bpo holders and builders and the officer mod's etc.
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Hurricane Carter
0ccam's Razor Varangians.
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 22:11:00 -
[1291]
for all the "but won't someone think of the docking games !!!!" people:
how about CCP just implement a "rule" for super carriers that, since they are too **** up big anyways you can not dock them while you are being agressed (not WHILE you are agressed but as long as ppl are shooting you).
What that'd do is let them dock when everything is all calm and quiet
- No more need to pay upkeep for a garage character or imprison a character - no docking game shenanigans, just keep shooting the dam super carrier and it can't dock anyways - WIN/WIN no ?
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:12:00 -
[1292]
Originally by: Sofia Swift Edited by: Sofia Swift on 14/11/2009 22:10:16
Originally by: McFly
Can't wait to see Lord Maldador's Pantheon Mothership Video.
LMAO .. for real tho.. just make them only able to dock every 1-2 hours it solves everything.. if you undock your committed for awhile.
AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE KEEP THE BUILD COST THE SAME
you have no way to even start trying to reimburse these pilots because the market implications are farther reaching than you can see. All the bpo holders and builders and the officer mod's etc.
LOL owned. So you got burned by the games development.
It's only internet money and internet spaceships
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:15:00 -
[1293]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 11:58:19 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect endgame for regular players. We need our dreams.
I agree with this.
/signed.
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Cold Burn
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:36:00 -
[1294]
Originally by: Sofia Swift Edited by: Sofia Swift on 14/11/2009 22:10:16
Originally by: McFly
Can't wait to see Lord Maldador's Pantheon Mothership Video.
LMAO .. for real tho.. just make them only able to dock every 1-2 hours it solves everything.. if you undock your committed for awhile.
AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE KEEP THE BUILD COST THE SAME
you have no way to even start trying to reimburse these pilots because the market implications are farther reaching than you can see. All the bpo holders and builders and the officer mod's etc.
Is the price of the BPO changing? I haven't looked on Sisi. If it's not changing, all the BPO holders aren't affected, their BPO's still cost the same as they did. Officer mods are irrelevant. The only people irreversibly affected by the change in price are those who are currently sitting in supercarriers.
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Meoneta
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:39:00 -
[1295]
Originally by: Mkiaki
Originally by: Sofia Swift Edited by: Sofia Swift on 14/11/2009 22:10:16
Originally by: McFly
Can't wait to see Lord Maldador's Pantheon Mothership Video.
LMAO .. for real tho.. just make them only able to dock every 1-2 hours it solves everything.. if you undock your committed for awhile.
AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE KEEP THE BUILD COST THE SAME
you have no way to even start trying to reimburse these pilots because the market implications are farther reaching than you can see. All the bpo holders and builders and the officer mod's etc.
LOL owned. So you got burned by the games development.
It's only internet money and internet spaceships
Ever heard of a thing called Karma?
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:44:00 -
[1296]
Edited by: Mkiaki on 14/11/2009 22:44:22
Originally by: Meoneta
Originally by: Mkiaki
Originally by: Sofia Swift Edited by: Sofia Swift on 14/11/2009 22:10:16
Originally by: McFly
Can't wait to see Lord Maldador's Pantheon Mothership Video.
LMAO .. for real tho.. just make them only able to dock every 1-2 hours it solves everything.. if you undock your committed for awhile.
AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE KEEP THE BUILD COST THE SAME
you have no way to even start trying to reimburse these pilots because the market implications are farther reaching than you can see. All the bpo holders and builders and the officer mod's etc.
LOL owned. So you got burned by the games development.
It's only internet money and internet spaceships
Ever heard of a thing called Karma?
What you do to one, returns times three
I am not the one making changes.
This is not even final, there is plenty of time. I really don't see why people are getting so heated about it. Now if this tosh rolls out as it is, then heh, all about the failboat.
Nothing personal ;)
edit: damn typo.
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.14 23:19:00 -
[1297]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect endgame for regular players. We need our dreams.
I agree this would be the way to do it.
//fake edit, i posted before but can't find it. =(
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 23:32:00 -
[1298]
lol
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Tyler
LurkerZ
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 23:41:00 -
[1299]
Originally by: Nessa Aldeen Edited by: Nessa Aldeen on 14/11/2009 19:39:25 Edited by: Nessa Aldeen on 14/11/2009 19:37:35 the emorage is strong in this one..
Why shouldnt the SC be able to dock? It may be big but the price isnt that of a titan and neither are the skills. And prices have been dropping even before the announcement.
And no to the suggestion of nerfing the maintenance/corp hangar array thats just dumb. This ship is about the least used ship for the capital category. Halving it makes sense, letting it dock makes sense. Who wants to be in a ship that u cant get out of minus the titan? Make this ship more accesible and let it be more used in fleets.
Dock and undock issue? Right, so you're saying all SC pilot are without risk if they have the option of docking.. hell the carrier and the dread can do the same...thought so...just another lame argument so that you can push through your own agendas.
And for those who think it wont die, think again.. if titans can die to BS fleets, SC will die too if not even faster. And for whats it worth do u have the balls to fly 6-10b ship in pvp knowing it will?
I think most people who whine here abt how Nozh is <insert negative adjective> didnt read his post.. he said subject to changes.. so really, chill people and stop emoraging like a bunch of wow whiners.
Reduce the armor (maybe twice that of a carrier no more than that), increase the dmg and ffs let it DOCK!
I hope what Nozh proposes goes through esp the dock and halving the build cost.
Your ignorance amazes me, do you have any idea how much firepower is needed to pop a supercarrier before the 60second aggro timer is up? They will be invincible.
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Cain Negestor
Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 23:51:00 -
[1300]
Edited by: Cain Negestor on 14/11/2009 23:51:40 Well for a Hel all thats needed is 4 Titan pilots pressing a button at the same time. Like i already said, remove the slaves from the armor tanked supercaps and theyll come down in EHP too, closer to the shield tanked ones.
Then increase the dock timer for SCs, and youll have a reasonable chance to kill a SC that is actually enjoying docking games.
Because i know i dont enjoy them.
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Ariel Dawn
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.15 00:00:00 -
[1301]
Is this the thread to complain about Scorch ammo for lasers?
Because I agree with everyone else posting here that bygone, this range imbalance has gone on for long enough!
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.15 00:20:00 -
[1302]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 15/11/2009 00:20:38
Originally by: Manfred Sideous My corp is pretty poor we dont have any T2 bpo collection we dont hold endless moon gold. We dont have a industry division to crank out isk but yet we have invested over 200 billion isk in supers because they are supposed to be end-game.
Could you please elaborate on that and how it makes sense? I know, living next to r64 moon owners might lead to a slight loss of reality, but still.. mate 200bil is not poor. You make it sound like owning T2 BPO collections or trillions of ISK was the norm.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.15 00:55:00 -
[1303]
I'd like to get a sequel now.
It's weekend and all, but I am still waiting for the next change of the stats.
It's great fun to watch braindead people do stuff.
And I am pretty sure that you'll catch me offguard and do something I didn't see coming. And I am one hundred percent sure that it'll be awfully stupid.
GG CCP.
/rant off.
P.S.: Just laughing about it now. It's awesome to watch people without a clue doing something that others had sorted for them.
Random "Free Abathur"-Quote in here.
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CaldeteisX
Caldari Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 01:18:00 -
[1304]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 11:58:19 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect endgame for regular players. We need our dreams.
Originally by: Phoenix vajaa Edited by: Phoenix vajaa on 14/11/2009 16:37:49
41 pages. 35 of them agaisnt any change besides abathur stats. 5 against Docking/6bill cost. And still not happy with 15 drones really.
1 page of people happy they can afford a ship they have not earned and dnt care if the stats are broken and will cause massive game imbalances./ People happy to **** off vetterans.
NO PAGES OF EXPLINATION FROM CCP. NO POST WITH EXPLINATION FROM CCP.
2 POSTS FROM CCP THAT HAVE CAUSED A PROBLEM THAT WAS NOT NEEDED.
Gotta keep two of the better posts well visible for CCP
Free Abathur!!
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BlackHorizon
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.15 02:17:00 -
[1305]
The entire supercarrier docking idea seems to be a poorly thought out placation to the playerbase. Reverting to Abathur's original proposals would be much better, but for titans and supercarriers.
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.15 02:17:00 -
[1306]
Originally by: Suitonia Well, if they wanted to make lowsec anymore **** they've achived it. I'm not looking forward to 3mil EHP supercapitals playing station games.
I'm gonna take the compensation (if they give one) for the value-loss of Misanths Aeon and get a 2nd. I'll just dualbox stationcamp Aeons, and show CCP what morons they are. It's not what I want to, but I guess it'll give me some satisfaction in a disturbing way.
I dunno.. I worked the skills and isk because I wanted a mothership, not a carrier. But then again, we (the pilots) all have different reasons and interest to buy them. I knew full well they'd get a boost, given their previous state, so it was certainly a gamble.
At least I'm kinda chill with the value drop. It'll ruin the xMoms more than any of the other changes, but hell every ship I fly is worth zero. Eventually this game, like all other, will die. It's alot better to field ****, and possibly lose it, then to park it at POS/station and just waste it all to EVEolution.
Docking is stupid. Cheap xMoms is even more stupid. There was some decent summaries some pages ago;
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect endgame for regular players. We need our dreams.
..and:
Originally by: fairimear the only real soloution is the original one. expensive ship. can't dock. can kill dreads but wnt survive without fleet backup.
THE reason i think he has done this is because they assume there is a chance that 2030 of these could show up and start raping fields of ships. IF it was lag from drones it was a simple matter of lowering the number and making up the dps with less.
- I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Hay Blinken
|
Posted - 2009.11.15 02:40:00 -
[1307]
Originally by: Thaeus I agree with you. However, the nerfing went too far as it stands. Bad enough titans got ransacked (which I can live with tbh) but Moms? They were always crappy (specially the Wyvern) and rarely got fielded when there was any amount of risk involved... now we won't see them at all.
Wait, what? Now that their 1/6th cost, do 6x the dps and can dock we'll never see them at all? That's fuzzy logic if I have ever seen it.
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Hay Blinken
|
Posted - 2009.11.15 02:54:00 -
[1308]
Originally by: Tyler
Originally by: Nessa Aldeen Edited by: Nessa Aldeen on 14/11/2009 19:39:25 Edited by: Nessa Aldeen on 14/11/2009 19:37:35 the emorage is strong in this one..
Why shouldnt the SC be able to dock? It may be big but the price isnt that of a titan and neither are the skills. And prices have been dropping even before the announcement.
And no to the suggestion of nerfing the maintenance/corp hangar array thats just dumb. This ship is about the least used ship for the capital category. Halving it makes sense, letting it dock makes sense. Who wants to be in a ship that u cant get out of minus the titan? Make this ship more accesible and let it be more used in fleets.
Dock and undock issue? Right, so you're saying all SC pilot are without risk if they have the option of docking.. hell the carrier and the dread can do the same...thought so...just another lame argument so that you can push through your own agendas.
And for those who think it wont die, think again.. if titans can die to BS fleets, SC will die too if not even faster. And for whats it worth do u have the balls to fly 6-10b ship in pvp knowing it will?
I think most people who whine here abt how Nozh is <insert negative adjective> didnt read his post.. he said subject to changes.. so really, chill people and stop emoraging like a bunch of wow whiners.
Reduce the armor (maybe twice that of a carrier no more than that), increase the dmg and ffs let it DOCK!
I hope what Nozh proposes goes through esp the dock and halving the build cost.
Your ignorance amazes me, do you have any idea how much firepower is needed to pop a supercarrier before the 60second aggro timer is up? They will be invincible.
Is that really true? I think some sc pilots will stupidly get themselves stuck outside of stations, far enough the undock to find themselves wtfbbq'd.
That said I agree partially. I'm in favor of letting them dock, but if ccp is going to do this, I'd like to see ships of this class have a 1 hour re-dock timer.
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Hay Blinken
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Posted - 2009.11.15 03:02:00 -
[1309]
Originally by: Karlemgne Edited by: Karlemgne on 14/11/2009 08:45:09 Edited by: Karlemgne on 14/11/2009 08:42:53
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
So what gives you the right to tell him to stop talking when you clearly only want a cheap supership that you can afford without regards for balance?
First of all, what gave you the impression that *I* want to pilot one of these ships? Where exactly did you divine this bit of information? And its so precise, not only do *I* want to fly them, but I want them cheap and unbalanced.
Listen, bro, somebody can have an opinion about game mechanics without having some hidden agenda.
That is all this is, an opinion. To be perfectly honest, I fly in low-sec, always have. I shoot people in the face for fun, that's what I do. I fly subcap ships. I've owned a carrier for over 2 years that has never fired a shot in anger (I've used it to move stuff twice). I have no interest in piloting a MoM.
I also have no interest in maintaining this caste system in eve either, where there is a whole bracket of ships that only belong to those who are super-rich in game, and have enough disposable income to afford multiple accounts.
As for my disagreement with the original quotee, he has every right to his opinion, and to express it here. My complaint was his use of the word "we." What I got out of his rant was that he, and the other current MoM pilots, were the only ones with the legitimate right to make comments about changes to "their" ships.
This language of exclusivity and privilege just irritates the **** out of me. EVERYONE ELSE has just as much right to an opinion about the future of the game, and motherships, as the members of his lonely cadre do.
Quote: Older players wants a good ship to work for
I've been playing this game for going on 4 years now. I've got over 60 million skill points. Try not to lecture me about what older players want, because I think I qualify as an "older player." And as I've said earlier in this post and this thread, I don't give to ****es about "working for," purchasing, or flying a mothership. To me capital ship warfare and the good ole' 0.0 primary, pop, primary... lag.. lag.. ctd just don't do it for me.
What ****ing excites me about dominion is the faction cruiser changes and the fleet issue typhoon/domi.
I prefer small gang low-sec pirating. That's what this older player looks forward to when he logs into eve everyday.
So maybe YOU should stop thinking that all "older players" want the same thing as you.
This post is so win.
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Tyler
LurkerZ
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Posted - 2009.11.15 03:07:00 -
[1310]
Originally by: Hay Blinken
Originally by: Tyler
Originally by: Nessa Aldeen Edited by: Nessa Aldeen on 14/11/2009 19:39:25 Edited by: Nessa Aldeen on 14/11/2009 19:37:35 the emorage is strong in this one..
Why shouldnt the SC be able to dock? It may be big but the price isnt that of a titan and neither are the skills. And prices have been dropping even before the announcement.
And no to the suggestion of nerfing the maintenance/corp hangar array thats just dumb. This ship is about the least used ship for the capital category. Halving it makes sense, letting it dock makes sense. Who wants to be in a ship that u cant get out of minus the titan? Make this ship more accesible and let it be more used in fleets.
Dock and undock issue? Right, so you're saying all SC pilot are without risk if they have the option of docking.. hell the carrier and the dread can do the same...thought so...just another lame argument so that you can push through your own agendas.
And for those who think it wont die, think again.. if titans can die to BS fleets, SC will die too if not even faster. And for whats it worth do u have the balls to fly 6-10b ship in pvp knowing it will?
I think most people who whine here abt how Nozh is <insert negative adjective> didnt read his post.. he said subject to changes.. so really, chill people and stop emoraging like a bunch of wow whiners.
Reduce the armor (maybe twice that of a carrier no more than that), increase the dmg and ffs let it DOCK!
I hope what Nozh proposes goes through esp the dock and halving the build cost.
Your ignorance amazes me, do you have any idea how much firepower is needed to pop a supercarrier before the 60second aggro timer is up? They will be invincible.
Is that really true? I think some sc pilots will stupidly get themselves stuck outside of stations, far enough the undock to find themselves wtfbbq'd.
That said I agree partially. I'm in favor of letting them dock, but if ccp is going to do this, I'd like to see ships of this class have a 1 hour re-dock timer.
Some, maybe; but the majority will sit outside the statio, repping it to near invulnarability.
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.15 03:25:00 -
[1311]
Bumping ships is hard. Battleship + MWD = Camper going on a trip. Change some of the caldari stations with ridiculously large areas so they're similar to minmatar stations.
Heck, supercarriers are such bricks that you could probably just undock behind one after their session change timer expires and they'd be perfectly lined up and moving the right way already.
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Taarna Galin
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Posted - 2009.11.15 03:25:00 -
[1312]
Edited by: Taarna Galin on 15/11/2009 03:28:34
Originally by: Hay Blinken Wait, what? Now that their 1/6th cost, do 6x the dps
learn2math plz. SCs are not going to cost under 3b and do 12-15K dps.
Originally by: The Internets Bumping ships is hard. Battleship + MWD = Camper going on a trip
bumping a SC that has any clue as to how to hug a station is going to be very, very hard.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 04:12:00 -
[1313]
33560 trit per 100 doom torpedoes 128100 doom torpedoes per t1-rigged iteron 9 iterons per dock'able mom ...
386,913,240 trit per mom's ship bay (plus another 89mil trit in its drone bay in form of 9000 maintenance bots)
sure, we can do this now already, but fiddling with the 9 iterons is a PITA - putting the gist back into logistics |
Sommer Glau
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Posted - 2009.11.15 04:42:00 -
[1314]
Hey CCP,
* 20 Drones/Fghters - IF lag is the problem, then 10 drones/fighters with 2x damage multiplier. Don't nerf it's sub-capital damage. * 10-20 Fighter Bombers - balance the stats (torp stats/bandwidth etc) so they have suitable damage against regular capitals as well as supercapitals. * Build Price - nerfing the price WILL result in large MOM blobs within a year. Keep them relatively rare. * Docking? - superMoros = low sec docking point camper's wet dream.
If you completely ignore 99.99% of the EVE community and nerf them, then a big "YES" to reimbursement.
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Dr Deadbolt
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.15 04:44:00 -
[1315]
43 pages and somewhere in that is a ccp answer ?
u want me to read 43 pages to find it ?
get fked
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.15 04:51:00 -
[1316]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 15/11/2009 04:53:18 The funniest thing is the complaint that lag is the problem, yet they wanna reduce the price to 5-6b so more people can afford them, so it will quadruple the amount of supercarriers on the battlefield at the least....wow great solution considering it will double the amount of fighterbombers than keeping it the way it was @ 12b cost and 20 fighterbombers per supercarrier |
Hay Blinken
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Posted - 2009.11.15 05:11:00 -
[1317]
Edited by: Hay Blinken on 15/11/2009 05:13:54
Originally by: Taarna Galin Edited by: Taarna Galin on 15/11/2009 03:28:34
Originally by: Hay Blinken Wait, what? Now that their 1/6th cost, do 6x the dps
learn2math plz. SCs are not going to cost under 3b and do 12-15K dps.
Originally by: The Internets Bumping ships is hard. Battleship + MWD = Camper going on a trip
bumping a SC that has any clue as to how to hug a station is going to be very, very hard.
I'm sorry. Lets see. Current mom cost > 12 billion isk. Current mom dps > 3000. Currently motherships can't be docked or sold/bought in stations. Moms have lots of EHPs. Moms are immune to ewar.
Projected costs after patch 5-6 billion. Projected DPS after patch 6500 to 9000. Supercarriers can dock, and be bought and sold in stations. After the patch the supercarriers will have a crap ton of EHP and still be immune to ewar.
You know, now that I'm looking at it, I guess you're right. Nobody will want to fly them.
To be honest, a more realistic argument against the proposed changes, which others have clued onto (and apparently you haven't) is that what is most likely to happen is Supercarrier spam on TQ. Nobody in their right mind thinks they won't be used with the new changes.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.15 05:29:00 -
[1318]
more of em on the field combined with nerfs makes supercarriers the new carrier Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Peryner
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.11.15 05:30:00 -
[1319]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Originally by: Nobuko Satoishi Edited by: Nobuko Satoishi on 13/11/2009 02:38:01 So dissapointed that ive spent the last 3 years perfecting my toons for caps / super caps to have the endgame taken away, CCP have you ever seen Blizzard remove the lv50/60/70 raids from the game, and they have 7-8 million subscribers to your half a million?
They're gaining 10x the EHP, a new weapon system, and reduction in cost at the trade off of being worse against smaller ships. Not the godlike anti-everything ships they were on Sisi, but I'd say still significantly more powerful than their live versions, right?
this
your getting ships with 10 times the hp and now they can do over 9000 dps... what is the complaint again? I'm actually really lost about what people are trying to say is a nerf. I really don't get it. please someone clearly point out whats wrong with them now compared to a week ago on sisi?
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Athar Mu
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.15 06:08:00 -
[1320]
They say they want to make an anti-capital ship...ok! But if that's the case take away its remote rep ability. That would solve the problem of them sitting on an undock of a station making it impossible for an opposing force to reinforce it.
If you want a support ship, then take away fighter bombers.
If you want a support ship that is also an anti-capital ship, reduce it EHP so it can be killed.
Estimated 9000 dps? Then any Dread that goes into siege if there a group of supercarriers/carriers around is dead unless the dreads out number the carriers, 5 or even maybe 10 to one.
All alliances are going to do is tell all their capship pilots to sell their dreads and carriers and buy supercarriers as they will be the only capship worth having, plus maybe a couple of Titans. They will be practically unkillable if they are on a station and in a group. Unless one gets caught without any support coming for like an hour off station no BS or below gang will stand a chance of killing it.
Oh no half decent Alliance will ever lose space now...0.0 will become stagnant and even more full of carebears. Like The Mittani said 30 moms in the first station hit and its invincible.
Hey Goons, you once said you wanted to ruin the game for everyone, CCP beat you too it...
But if it stays like this I will have a supercarrier before Christmas and I will be playing docking games in lowsec without a support fleet bring on the Dreads, bet I can kill a few before I have to dock even if there are 20...
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c0rn1
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.15 06:09:00 -
[1321]
CCP Nozh,
Quick hint:
1) Go to your fridge 2) find the paper where you noted the location of your flashlight 3) find the flashlight 4) press the well marked "on" button 5) Crawl beneath your bed 6) Look for the brain you must've lost a few days ago while asleep 7) Grab brain and move to fridge! 8) cool it well and move quickly to a hospital 9) Order a doctor to put it back in the right place 10) Re-read your post after successful surgery 11) Do yourself a favor after the embarrassment actually understanding what you wrote and consequently quit at CCP
cheers
c0rn1 x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ... |
Athar Mu
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.15 06:21:00 -
[1322]
Fighter bombers orbit outside of normal smartbomb range right? So seen as supercarriers are gonna be anti-capital killers give dreads away to defend themselves against them. All dreads get an extra high and a bonus to smartbomb range at least that way they can fend them off.
Or give dreads a bonus when hitting supercapitals...like 100% damage bonus against supercapitals so they can at least match them for damage.
I always though the role of dreads was anti-pos and anti-captial...carriers and moms were support and defence...titans were just anti-everything else...so why do you need to create another class of ship which blurs the lines between to types when we already have a class of ship for that. And now with pos's not being so vital to alliance life dreads are gonna be pretty much useless, can we please also get a refund on dreads at the same time as supercapital pilots do?!
What is the role of the dread now CCP?
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.15 06:38:00 -
[1323]
Originally by: Athar Mu Fighter bombers orbit outside of normal smartbomb range right? So seen as supercarriers are gonna be anti-capital killers give dreads away to defend themselves against them. All dreads get an extra high and a bonus to smartbomb range at least that way they can fend them off.
Or give dreads a bonus when hitting supercapitals...like 100% damage bonus against supercapitals so they can at least match them for damage.
I always though the role of dreads was anti-pos and anti-captial...carriers and moms were support and defence...titans were just anti-everything else...so why do you need to create another class of ship which blurs the lines between to types when we already have a class of ship for that. And now with pos's not being so vital to alliance life dreads are gonna be pretty much useless, can we please also get a refund on dreads at the same time as supercapital pilots do?!
What is the role of the dread now CCP?
you mean anti-supercapital ship killer, they dont do 100% dmg to dreads or carriers b/c of explosion radius...learn your facts before talking out of your arse, all dreads are under 1800 sig radius, explosion radius is 3500 on compact citadel torp....they will do half dmg vs dreads in siege....so how are they anti-capital with the new stats on compact citadel torps? |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.15 06:46:00 -
[1324]
Well, to be honest, motherships/supercarriers as capital killers was more of a bandaid solution, since motherships weren't being used, lacked a real role and there weren't that many options.
I'm personally starting to feel bad having ever suggested or supported this role re-definition.
In my humble opinion motherships should have had the Jump Portal Generators in the first place, instead of titans. That would've given them more importance and meaning and I think it would've fit to the term 'mothership'.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Taarna Galin
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Posted - 2009.11.15 07:02:00 -
[1325]
Originally by: Hay Blinken I'm sorry. Lets see. Current mom cost > 12 billion isk. Current mom dps > 3000. Currently motherships can't be docked or sold/bought in stations. Moms have lots of EHPs. Moms are immune to ewar.
Projected costs after patch 5-6 billion. Projected DPS after patch 6500 to 9000. Supercarriers can dock, and be bought and sold in stations. After the patch the supercarriers will have a crap ton of EHP and still be immune to ewar.
You know, now that I'm looking at it, I guess you're right. Nobody will want to fly them.
To be honest, a more realistic argument against the proposed changes, which others have clued onto (and apparently you haven't) is that what is most likely to happen is Supercarrier spam on TQ. Nobody in their right mind thinks they won't be used with the new changes.
Unfortunately I can't resist troll bait so I'll respond to you. I never said people wouldn't want to fly them. I have no idea where you got that from. I said your math was wrong (it was) and that bumping a SC off a station will be quite hard if the SC pilot is at all smart. Projected BUILD cost is around 6b, SCs will more than likely sell at 9. DPS will range from 6400-8000 as 8000 (nyx) is 25% higher than 6400 (all others). Noone will use DCUs for anything but ganks, so don't bother bringing those up.
Make no mistake, I will fly one of these abominations if it goes to TQ. However the only thing I will use it for is station ganking carriers and low sec station griefing, because that is all they will be good at. I will continue to use a dread for station dread ganks (as they will do more dps against dreads) and in cap fleets (for the same reason). Ofc if there's a blob of carriers and other SCs to spider tank with (which after some time there certainly will be in any good cap fleet), I'll be up for that.
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.11.15 07:12:00 -
[1326]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 15/11/2009 07:12:35
Originally by: Sommer Glau
If you completely ignore 99.99% of the EVE community and nerf them, then a big "YES" to reimbursement.
You mean "99.99% of all supercarrier pilots" not 99.99% of ALL EvE players.
I'm sure, most non-cap pilots will be fine with this change or do not care about this at all.
I'm fine, if super-carrier are a bit more powerfull then normal carrier. But they must be balanced so they don't become a "must have" for 00/low to have a slight changs.
Carrier := suport for Dreads and BS fleets Super Carrier := suport for Titans and comand bases for capital fleets
They should under no circumstands become PWN-mobils!
Let them have 3*time def-abilitys. Let them give 3*more remote suport abilitys. Overall general 200% bonus to ALL remote-moduls including shield/armor/energy/tracking links/sensor booster/etc. Same for all SC without this stupid armor or shield only handycap. Let them give twice the fleet bonus of command ships (super commands). Let them have realy big cargos to carry amunition for a 100 fleet of dreads. Let them have ship-hangars to carry X full fitted BS for re-deployment. Maybe even enough for 5 carrier/dreads.
But DO NOT let them be killing machines! Killing stuff := Titans, Dreads, BS, all the rest.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.15 07:25:00 -
[1327]
Nerf their damage and then give them defensive / fleet support roles Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
KFCboy
|
Posted - 2009.11.15 07:34:00 -
[1328]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 15/11/2009 07:12:35
Originally by: Sommer Glau
If you completely ignore 99.99% of the EVE community and nerf them, then a big "YES" to reimbursement.
You mean "99.99% of all supercarrier pilots" not 99.99% of ALL EvE players.
I'm sure, most non-cap pilots will be fine with this change or do not care about this at all.
I'm fine, if super-carrier are a bit more powerfull then normal carrier. But they must be balanced so they don't become a "must have" for 00/low to have a slight changs.
Carrier := suport for Dreads and BS fleets Super Carrier := suport for Titans and comand bases for capital fleets
They should under no circumstands become PWN-mobils!
Let them have 3*time def-abilitys. Let them give 3*more remote suport abilitys. Overall general 200% bonus to ALL remote-moduls including shield/armor/energy/tracking links/sensor booster/etc. Same for all SC without this stupid armor or shield only handycap. Let them give twice the fleet bonus of command ships (super commands). Let them have realy big cargos to carry amunition for a 100 fleet of dreads. Let them have ship-hangars to carry X full fitted BS for re-deployment. Maybe even enough for 5 carrier/dreads.
But DO NOT let them be killing machines! Killing stuff := Titans, Dreads, BS, all the rest.
Nozh alt spotted.
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LiMu Bai
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.15 07:59:00 -
[1329]
Edited by: LiMu Bai on 15/11/2009 08:02:19
Originally by: Sommer Glau
* Docking? - superMoros = low sec docking point camper's wet dream.
Low sec engagements are screwed anyway cause of docking range pvp. No Lowsec action without undocking Carriers, Rorquals or whatever. And common capitals are also unpossible to kill in 1 min redock timer, except you have an whole dreadfleet in jump range. So this wouldnt be really a a new problem with this new Supercarriers. But maybe theres the possiblity to restrict the docking ability to 0.0 Stations only. A ship never should be judged because some lowsec-noobs play docking-range games. Maybe CCP can finally fix this issue, especially remote reps from Carriers in docking range, which is a huge imbalance.
For me the ability to dock a Supercarrier is really important. No more Character imprisonment pls. The use of capitals is mostly limited to larger OPs, which dont happen every day. So it would be great to make the char free to use different ships.
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Hay Blinken
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Posted - 2009.11.15 08:07:00 -
[1330]
Edited by: Hay Blinken on 15/11/2009 08:08:09
Originally by: Taarna Galin
Unfortunately I can't resist troll bait so I'll respond to you. I never said people wouldn't want to fly them.
Wait, wait... you cannot resist the troll bait, yet you decided to critique my math paying absolutely no attention to the context of my argument? And who is the troll? You're arguing with me in this case, JUST to argue with me.
So it was I who couldn't resist the troll bait I suppose.
Let me clue you in, I wasn't trying to be perfect with my math. I was trying to, while slightly hyperbolizing, argue with the person a few posts back who came into the end of the thread saying that "nobody will ever fly these now!!1!1!!" Forgive me if I thought your critique of my math was actually an attempt to take part in that conversation.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.15 08:23:00 -
[1331]
Originally by: LiMu Bai
Low sec engagements are screwed anyway cause of docking range pvp. No Lowsec action without undocking Carriers, Rorquals or whatever. And common capitals are also unpossible to kill in 1 min redock timer, except you have an whole dreadfleet in jump range. So this wouldnt be really a a new problem with this new Supercarriers. But maybe theres the possiblity to restrict the docking ability to 0.0 Stations only. A ship never should be judged because some lowsec-noobs play docking-range games. Maybe CCP can finally fix this issue, especially remote reps from Carriers in docking range, which is a huge imbalance.
For me the ability to dock a Supercarrier is really important. No more Character imprisonment pls. The use of capitals is mostly limited to larger OPs, which dont happen every day. So it would be great to make the char free to use different ships.
As much as I hate to say this, as a "low-sec noob" who runs in RR gangs, maybe the fix for at least part of the issue is changing RRs so they cause real aggro, and keep you from docking.
And this is where I editorialize--I've spent some time in 0.0. I hate it. Its boring as hell. I don't like uber blobs, the good ole' primary... pop... primary... pop... lag... lag... ctd while some jacka** is yelling at me on vent or TS. I also don't like the stupid bubble games, nor the chase some dudes 20 jumps to score a kill.
I like low-sec small gang pirating. I like my close knit corp. I like not being a cog in a crappy 0.0 machine, even, and this is important, massive pirate 0.0 machines.
What is more, I like low-sec. I like the flashy mechanic. I like tactics that need to be developed around having to manage gate gun aggro. I like it that people I fight use high-grade pirate implants on a regular basis. Are there station games in low-sec? Yes. Are they annoying? Yes. It comes with the territory. Lets not pretend though that station games don't happen in NPC 0.0 and at outposts too.
Don't get me wrong. I don't hate the people who DO enjoy 0.0. Nor do I deride their skill at pvping and doing what they do. Some 0.0 corps are DAMN good at what they do. I just don't like it; however this where someone like you, and someone like me, diverges. I hate the constant insinuation that those of us who DON'T enjoy 0.0 are "bad" pvpers, or that we "suck," or that we're "noobs." That's totally baseless bull****, and a common rout that in most cases doesn't stand up to reality.
-Karlemgne My sig don't fracking work. |
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.15 09:10:00 -
[1332]
If you go back to the Original Idea for SuperCarriers You dont need to impliment further fixes. ALL of your suggestions only cause further imbalance and require more fixing.
Lowering the price requires Fixing to BPO owners and current Mothership owners. Lowering the price will have a problem with these relatively cheap invulnerable EHP monsters being used in non-fleet situations such as cynogen camping, jumpbridge camping, station camping. Camping... not capital combat.
Allowing them to dock will create massive imbalance, if someone can afford a Carrier and Dread (which a massive number of people can do) you will see everyone have one of these ships and dock it up and pull it out. fleets of 50 motherships for luls easy- from each 0.0 side in regular fleets replacing the carriers they used to have.
The docking will mean that its safe to undock kill something, redock, repair undock etc- you nerfed the moros' drones for this reason so your reimplimenting it with the supercarrier, a ship with even more firepower and EHP? So you would need to fix the docking time for these ships- another fix required.
You have broken the fighterbombers- they only do half damage to dreadnaughts and to carriers moving they do vastly reduced amounts of damage. Using 15 of these bombers does about the same damage as a Dread, they are not anticapital ships what so ever. The claim that they can leave the field much sooner- in capital combat it can last an hour. an hour and bubbles will be everywhere. there will be no leaving the field. You cant leave the field anyway with your fighters on a target or they will warp off, or at least warp off once the target is down, then you would have to warp back in.
As i see it those who saved and grinded for the ship pre-patch, they were your veteren players, they put a lot of effort into it and play tested the ship on sisi. Right now its these vets who are less likely to fly the new version and you will find those who had no intentions of flying one getting one- because they can just put it in the station and its all cheap and chearful.
So that leaves the Titan as the end game ship- and in its current version its a POS orniment. A tool purely for bridging fleets. The damage is pointless to make it practical to use. So if I had the isk which im not that far off really if i didnt save for a Hel and have it building already and the fittings ready I might have gotten a titan, but I have no desire to sit in a pos and bridge people with a dedicated char now.
Im even less bothered about training minmatar dread 5 now with the new new changes to the nag thats on sisi, its even worse than before the buff, used to be 7.5 and 5% rof to missiles, now its only 5% projectile damage and 5% missile ROF.
So I dont know whats going on at CCP HQ, but with 15 days to go these changes are really bizarre, Im still in denile over most of them, they surely cant go live because they are so bizarrely awful. They Break so much, the end game is removed and there is seemingly no point to much of anything anymore.
This Whole patch is a nerf to 0.0 . Fighterbombers should have 1500 Explo radius and 75ms Explosion Velocity on the Compact torpedos. Citadel Torpedo explo radious should also be around 1500.
1500 allows you to hit dreads at full damage and 75ms allows you to hit moving capitals at full damage. It would mean that support ships are still relatively unharmed. You should make the Supercarriers have 20 drones. Its about firepower relative to a carrier- Twice the firepower with conventional drones. If the 20 Bombers do too much damage reduce the damage they do, two Dreads worth of damage is appropriate damage for these ships, 8000dps. So at lvl 5 Fighterbomber, divide 8000/20, 400 dps per fighterbomber at lvl 5, so 200 dps per bomber base. is it 15 second ROF for the torps? 3000 damage from each torpedo Base.
Done. Fixed. No docking, No price change. done fixed. No need to fix any of the other problems your changes cause. |
mariypol freelancer
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Posted - 2009.11.15 09:18:00 -
[1333]
Edited by: mariypol freelancer on 15/11/2009 09:21:40 Edited by: mariypol freelancer on 15/11/2009 09:19:03 If CCP save this changes motherships will be big well tanked and useless piece of crap . now we got much 2000+ damage by fighters on any target bigger than cruiser . After fix we got full damage on supecaps only . NERF!
Also "compact" citadel torpedoes cant hit sieged dreadnought wit 100% damage . LoL?
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HeliosGal
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.15 09:34:00 -
[1334]
pherpas a 50% modifer against non capitals for the compat citadel torps Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.15 09:44:00 -
[1335]
Originally by: Tyler
Originally by: Nessa Aldeen Edited by: Nessa Aldeen on 14/11/2009 19:39:25 Edited by: Nessa Aldeen on 14/11/2009 19:37:35 the emorage is strong in this one..
Why shouldnt the SC be able to dock? It may be big but the price isnt that of a titan and neither are the skills. And prices have been dropping even before the announcement.
And no to the suggestion of nerfing the maintenance/corp hangar array thats just dumb. This ship is about the least used ship for the capital category. Halving it makes sense, letting it dock makes sense. Who wants to be in a ship that u cant get out of minus the titan? Make this ship more accesible and let it be more used in fleets.
Dock and undock issue? Right, so you're saying all SC pilot are without risk if they have the option of docking.. hell the carrier and the dread can do the same...thought so...just another lame argument so that you can push through your own agendas.
And for those who think it wont die, think again.. if titans can die to BS fleets, SC will die too if not even faster. And for whats it worth do u have the balls to fly 6-10b ship in pvp knowing it will?
I think most people who whine here abt how Nozh is <insert negative adjective> didnt read his post.. he said subject to changes.. so really, chill people and stop emoraging like a bunch of wow whiners.
Reduce the armor (maybe twice that of a carrier no more than that), increase the dmg and ffs let it DOCK!
I hope what Nozh proposes goes through esp the dock and halving the build cost.
Your ignorance amazes me, do you have any idea how much firepower is needed to pop a supercarrier before the 60second aggro timer is up? They will be invincible.
I was thinking the same thing, the guy is a total noob or just trolling.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 09:46:00 -
[1336]
Originally by: HeliosGal pherpas a 50% modifer against non capitals for the compat citadel torps
Its another fix to a problem which is the problem. There are no fixes needed if you roll back to the original design. Making lots of changes to accomodate for the bad current design is trying to polish a turd. |
Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.15 09:52:00 -
[1337]
Originally by: Hay Blinken ...I think some sc pilots will stupidly get themselves stuck outside of stations, far enough the undock to find themselves wtfbbq'd.
By all means kill such inexperienced supercarrier pilots.
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S'T'A'L'K'E'R
Pirate Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.15 10:06:00 -
[1338]
I dont have mom, but Nozh nerf my Moros so i hate him PvP last year become more and more predictable...
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.15 10:19:00 -
[1339]
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: Hay Blinken ...I think some sc pilots will stupidly get themselves stuck outside of stations, far enough the undock to find themselves wtfbbq'd.
By all means kill such inexperienced supercarrier pilots.
I see the point here though, this is all it will take for someone like Invicta to hotdrop their on call "why exactly do we need SOOO many cap pilots" to wtf pown these people.
Lets get down to brass tacks here. Its not like you're going to easily kill all of those SC pilots anyway if they can't dock. 99.99999% of the time these guys are sitting safely in POS bubbles anyway.
I think you're actually MORE likely to kill supercarrier pilots if you let them dock. So I'm in favor of it.
I'm also in favor of adjusting the dock mechanic for them and NOT letting them dock back up for at least a half an hour. That way you better be damn sure you want to commit the thing if you're going to undock it.
My sig don't fracking work. |
stylo11
Gallente Quam Singulari Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.11.15 10:53:00 -
[1340]
First off; Docking SuperCarriers is a terrible idea. Think of the amount of game mechanics that change with that change in place. The shear size of them in a station, problems with undocking and bumping. A ship with millions of EHP that can kill something and then just dock up. Unkillable really. (effectivly brining back the old old MS)
Also, people where ok with the high build cost of the ship and the price they pay to get one. Most people who aim to get one are determined to pay anything, so why make it that every man and there dog can get it. Leave them to be an end game ship and put it back to the way it was.
As for the fighters and there damage. Nothing was wrong with 20 fighters. I admit brining it back to 15 is something but still, why not just leave it at 20 in the first place. Also the ability for the SuperCarrier to fufill it's role of, anti-cap ship, is still reduced and also for it's ability to take out a decently tanked hic, should not be next to impossible.
Putting ti back to the way it was, would be a smart idea. It will bring back a sort of promise that youz gave to people, a sort of hope almost. And also it will bring back faith in your ability to make good changes when appropiate.
Stylo
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Arcanim Al'Seif
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.15 11:04:00 -
[1341]
Edited by: Arcanim Al''Seif on 15/11/2009 11:04:19
Originally by: Karlemgne
Lets get down to brass tacks here. Its not like you're going to easily kill all of those SC pilots anyway if they can't dock. 99.99999% of the time these guys are sitting safely in POS bubbles anyway.
I think you're actually MORE likely to kill supercarrier pilots if you let them dock. So I'm in favor of it.
That is what I like about the new fighter-bombers though, unlike the fighters they can't be assigned, so in order to use them in the anti-capital role (referring to the original role proposed) their pilots would actually have to stick them on the field in killing-range of the hostile fleet. The proposed buff actually gave you a reason to risk your super-carrier in a fight as opposed to leaving it either in the POS, or just outside of shields assigning fighters.
As someone else has stated they need to be renamed to something like strike carrier if the more recent proposal goes forward. They no longer fit the description of what a Super Capital has been (Hard to get into, expensive, a real commitment for a pilot and/or corp to acquire and field) so you have effectively created a new class of vessel that no longer fits the original purpose to which you intended to put it at the detriment of one, possibly two other classes.
Arca
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Locii
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Posted - 2009.11.15 11:12:00 -
[1342]
As they can now dock, is there any point limiting there production to a system with sov. why not just let them be built in low sec and save the new mothership building for 0.0
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Griceldia Kvonnir
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.15 11:19:00 -
[1343]
Please don't consider reimbursements. That is the last thing you need to do. Because the next time you change anything in game, people will be all over the forums asking for their isk back. Just keep the build cost the same, and you don't have any problems. And there wasn't any good reason to change it in the first place.
Right now, it seems like for every change you make, you're creating 10 new problems that are even more difficult to solve.
Keep the way things were. Everyone was so excited about the original changes. I don't see why you guys decided to scrap all of that.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.11.15 11:26:00 -
[1344]
Originally by: Locii As they can now dock, is there any point limiting there production to a system with sov. why not just let them be built in low sec and save the new mothership building for 0.0
QFT
At least let them be build at a Pos without sov.
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Zyleina Kzorvern
Coronene Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 11:28:00 -
[1345]
Originally by: Locii As they can now dock, is there any point limiting there production to a system with sov. why not just let them be built in low sec and save the new mothership building for 0.0
So take the current motherships and change them into cheaper versions of t2 carriers. Then introduce a new mothership and make players go grind isk all over again to get them. I hope this is not what you are trying to do ccp. That is not the game I want to play.
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.15 12:31:00 -
[1346]
Edited by: fairimear on 15/11/2009 12:33:04 ATM its 8BILL. DOCKABLE. 15 DRONES.
to balance this it will be:
Half hp. Or 20min dock timer. OR vulnerable to ecm. Or not remote reppable. This will make them useless to field away from stations. 20min redock timer will probably mean you miss a getting in gangs ect. so takes away from the point.
Ecm vulnerable will make them totaly un-fieldable ever. will just get jammed and webbed on field and jammed on stations.
Then there is the entire player owned station free repair. so they can sit out till 10% armor-dock-repair-undock.
so then comes the docking at player owned station nerf cus 20min timer probably wnt mean they even hit 10% armor 80% of the time. OR a EHP nerf onto of docking time.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Hurricane Carter
0ccam's Razor Varangians.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 13:39:00 -
[1347]
Jesus christ, you are all such whiney little trolls on here...
"but but... they will be USED !!!! on stations !!!"
yes so now you can actually KILL some instead of the motherships staying logged off in poS bubbles till we can bring them out on 100% SAFE ops because right now its absolutely retarted to field one if there is any threat at all on the field.
As I said before, give them a "debuff" that, because their size they can not dock while being shot at (so no station games) and all of the problems go away.
I won't be stuck in a coffin no more, nor need to pay for a garage character, I'll effectively get to use the bloody thing AND I can NOT play docking games.
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Fleur D'oranger
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Posted - 2009.11.15 14:22:00 -
[1348]
Edited by: Fleur D''oranger on 15/11/2009 14:24:14
The problem is with station games period, not with this ship. They should have made you wait out the whole 15 minute aggression timer to dock a long time ago.
Edit: Along with aggression flagging you for repping an agressor.
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Kochi Pikla
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Posted - 2009.11.15 14:33:00 -
[1349]
leave my ms alone , i want 20 drones not 15, supercaps are not supposed to be able to dock if ppl cant afford to have to pay an alt or have to pay 15b to fly a ms they can just go play wow or sell some gtc...
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Cruel SOAB
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 14:52:00 -
[1350]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch I just don't get it. Huge, mean looking, expensive to build .. a one time decision for a pilot to get into them and be stuck there unable to change ship. So why nerf them this badly? Their days of virtual invincibility is gone .. no one is going to conquer a quarter of null sec with four of them ever again no matter what you do. It looked for a few weeks like you had given them a role in the game again .. and now you back out? This change is ridiculous and uncalled for. Please reverse it.
This. Reverse this nonsense. No one will be wanting to fly a super carrier ever again. The Nyx is too sexy for this treatment.
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Herar Domain
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Posted - 2009.11.15 15:27:00 -
[1351]
It would be a pleasure if CCP could give some former informations or at least a statement -.-
Herar feels totally left alone
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.15 16:04:00 -
[1352]
Testing on Sisi, you can bump a Hel ~12km on a direct hit (bumping ship does a 180 almost instantly on contact) using the right ship, does need some investment for a snake set. However a hit that isn't right in the center mass will not move it very far at all.
Frankly, docking games don't matter that much anyway; player outposts consistently have small docking areas, plus the people they'd actually catch aren't the brightest crayons in the box anyway. You have to try pretty hard to get nabbed by capitals while undocking on Traq.
Their remote-rep capabilities should be removed if these changes go through however to prevent massive ecm-immune spider tanks that would eventually appear everywhere. Would pretty much let players focus more on offensive modules as well.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 16:38:00 -
[1353]
It seems to me that CCP just does not understand or seem to care about the time and effort the player base puts into eve. A lot of what makes eve great is the long term goal you can set for your self, corp and alliance. Making changes that have a huge impact on these goals as the "super nerf" will, makes any other goals we also have, seem no longer worth the effort. Salvaging guide:moon materials guide |
The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.15 16:48:00 -
[1354]
Originally by: voidvim It seems to me that CCP just does not understand or seem to care about the time and effort the player base puts into eve. A lot of what makes eve great is the long term goal you can set for your self, corp and alliance. Making changes that have a huge impact on these goals as the "super nerf" will, makes any other goals we also have, seem no longer worth the effort.
Losing 5 drones is a 'super nerf' for a ship that is supposed to be flown with support. Gaining ridiculous EHP, DPS against capitals is completely irrelevant BECAUSE 5 DRONES OMG.
Apparently you don't have to be bright enough to put your pants on in the morning to be able to fly a supercarrier. The ship is getting MAAAAAAAASIVE BUFFS, it's in a completely different league in power and survivability compared to Tranq.
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ArmagedonLT
Amarr Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 16:49:00 -
[1355]
Edited by: ArmagedonLT on 15/11/2009 16:50:43
Originally by: The Internets Edited by: The Internets on 15/11/2009 16:07:06 Frankly, docking games don't matter that much anyway; player outposts consistently have small docking areas, plus the people they'd actually catch aren't the brightest crayons in the box anyway. You have to try pretty hard to get nabbed by capitals while undocking on Traq.
Oh hai, mr i dont know about 0.0 guy, Gallente player built outpost has massive docking range and its undock point is hardly bumpable. Try bumping anything from those tbh, its much worse than those npc caldari stations. Also, you forgetting the 0.0 NPC space which has stations with insane docking range, thats where main problem comes. One guy can play dock and undock games against whole alliances without a risk.
As a mothership pilot: Docking for moms = NO! 15 fighters = fine, i can live with that Reduced build cost? HELL NO!
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Taarna Galin
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Posted - 2009.11.15 17:01:00 -
[1356]
Originally by: The Internets
Testing on Sisi, you can bump a Hel ~12km on a direct hit (bumping ship does a 180 almost instantly on contact) using the right ship, does need some investment for a snake set. However a hit that isn't right in the center mass will not move it very far at all.
Really? What were you using? (srs question)
Quote: I don't know about you, but the current Traq motherships are absolute trash compared to the Sisi ones, and judging by this thread, quite a few people fly motherships regardless. I suppose having significantly more EHP, DPS against capitals (up to 3x more DPS against them), and affordability is a HORRIFIC tradeoff for losing 5 entire drones.
I don't agree that "nobodoy will fly them", but I do think what they are going to end up doing is not going to be what they were supposed to be doing. How they were before Nozh came in they would have been used almost entirely for this role.
Quote: Their remote-rep capabilities should be removed if these changes go through however to prevent massive ecm-immune spider tanks that would eventually appear everywhere. Would pretty much let players focus more on offensive modules as well.
Unfortunately, offensive modules (DCUs) are pretty worthless. Removing their RR abilities would be just one more nerf to a ship that DIDN'T need the nerf a week ago.
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ByFstugan
Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 17:11:00 -
[1357]
Originally by: The Internets Edited by: The Internets on 15/11/2009 16:07:06 Testing on Sisi, you can bump a Hel ~12km on a direct hit (bumping ship does a 180 almost instantly on contact) using the right ship, does need some investment for a snake set. However a hit that isn't right in the center mass will not move it very far at all.
Frankly, docking games don't matter that much anyway; player outposts consistently have small docking areas, plus the people they'd actually catch aren't the brightest crayons in the box anyway. You have to try pretty hard to get nabbed by capitals while undocking on Traq.
Their remote-rep capabilities should be removed if these changes go through however to prevent massive ecm-immune spider tanks that would eventually appear everywhere. Would pretty much let players focus more on offensive modules as well.
Originally by: Cruel SOAB
This. Reverse this nonsense. No one will be wanting to fly a super carrier ever again. The Nyx is too sexy for this treatment.
I don't know about you, but the current Traq motherships are absolute trash compared to the Sisi ones, and judging by this thread, quite a few people fly motherships regardless. I suppose having significantly more EHP, DPS against capitals (up to 3x more DPS against them), and affordability is a HORRIFIC tradeoff for losing 5 entire drones.
FIVE WHOLE DRONES. DEAR GOD.
I agree with this. The Supercarriers get's a real good buff and the suggested present changes is as a whole good. However some of the objections are important to take notice to, even if I don't agree withe most their solution.
I think the reduced price along with current changes is almost on the spot what should be made. However the issues about docking should be fixed in some way - just not by not make them dockable.
Another thing that might need to be reconcider is if the immune to EW should be changed to 50% resistanse vs EW (plus X warp stab in hull.
After this the SC's will still be buffed compared to todays MS's, even if we might stop calling them supercapital and await the new Mothership to come that might be worthy of that name. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
xXxDianaxXx
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Posted - 2009.11.15 17:20:00 -
[1358]
Originally by: ArmagedonLT Edited by: ArmagedonLT on 15/11/2009 16:50:43
Originally by: The Internets Edited by: The Internets on 15/11/2009 16:07:06 Frankly, docking games don't matter that much anyway; player outposts consistently have small docking areas, plus the people they'd actually catch aren't the brightest crayons in the box anyway. You have to try pretty hard to get nabbed by capitals while undocking on Traq.
Oh hai, mr i dont know about 0.0 guy, Gallente player built outpost has massive docking range and its undock point is hardly bumpable. Try bumping anything from those tbh, its much worse than those npc caldari stations. Also, you forgetting the 0.0 NPC space which has stations with insane docking range, thats where main problem comes. One guy can play dock and undock games against whole alliances without a risk.
As a mothership pilot: Docking for moms = NO! 15 fighters = fine, i can live with that Reduced build cost? HELL NO!
total agree
Hey CCP If you want the ships used more frequently do not have to degrade them, make insurance more affordable so that in case of loss of the ship pilot gets his hands full price.
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Jenessa
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 17:20:00 -
[1359]
I really fail to see why some people are freaking out because of SuperCarriers being able to dock, and the only reason for the panic is "Oh people will play docking games with it"
Good grief thats the best arguement you have?? People play that game now with carriers, any idiot who dies in a capital on a station to a MS with fighter bombers shouldnt have been in the damned ship in the first place.
People seem to think there will be a huge proliferation of SC's with Dominion, has it occured to people they still cannot be built in stations? There arent that many in the game as it is due to the fact they had no real role, the fact they are hard to build and are destroyable during build (more so after dominion) means they will never be as numerous as carriers, hell they wont even come close.
Yes I've got a character that's got a Mothership, and yes I want to dock it in, I'm not gonna pretend I'm unbiassed on it, but my god the reason's given for not letting them dock are absolutely pathetic.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.15 17:46:00 -
[1360]
Originally by: Griceldia Kvonnir Please don't consider reimbursements. That is the last thing you need to do. Because the next time you change anything in game, people will be all over the forums asking for their isk back.
Yep, this exactly. Pandora's box at your fingertips..
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
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Chicken Breasts
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Posted - 2009.11.15 18:21:00 -
[1361]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: Griceldia Kvonnir Please don't consider reimbursements. That is the last thing you need to do. Because the next time you change anything in game, people will be all over the forums asking for their isk back.
Yep, this exactly. Pandora's box at your fingertips..
How often does CCP cut the mineral requirements of a long-standing ship class by nearly half?
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.15 18:27:00 -
[1362]
To all the people crying to CCP to not reimburse: You just need to STFU...if you spent 12b+ isk, spent lots of time coming up with the isk, moving components, weeks of production, POS maint, Capital Assembly Array....and then are told you built a 5-6b isk ship, you would be asking for reimbursement too. I personally think the cost shouldn't be changed, people are complaining about supercap fleets, well if you drop the cost to 5-6b that is exactly what you will get. If CCP changes it, DAMN RIGHT they need to reimburse us!! |
The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.15 18:41:00 -
[1363]
Originally by: ArmagedonLT Edited by: ArmagedonLT on 15/11/2009 16:50:43
Originally by: The Internets Edited by: The Internets on 15/11/2009 16:07:06 Frankly, docking games don't matter that much anyway; player outposts consistently have small docking areas, plus the people they'd actually catch aren't the brightest crayons in the box anyway. You have to try pretty hard to get nabbed by capitals while undocking on Traq.
Oh hai, mr i dont know about 0.0 guy, Gallente player built outpost has massive docking range and its undock point is hardly bumpable. Try bumping anything from those tbh, its much worse than those npc caldari stations. Also, you forgetting the 0.0 NPC space which has stations with insane docking range, thats where main problem comes. One guy can play dock and undock games against whole alliances without a risk.
As a mothership pilot: Docking for moms = NO! 15 fighters = fine, i can live with that Reduced build cost? HELL NO!
You can bump anything, and most player outposts do have a small undock. I'm more than familiar with 0.0. Pre-speed nerf my best record was knocking a Drake 153km off of a gallente outpost with a Vagabond, the distances you can hit people are still pretty ridiculous. For whoever was asking, I used a Bumpariel on Sisi with a garage sitting in a Hel @ standstill.
Main issue for NPC stations are mostly the Caldari ones since their effective docking range is ~40km or so if I remember correctly (I probably don't). It's not like players can own NPC 0.0 anyway however, so to me it's similar to 0.0 bears crying that someone is in their system cloaked. HTFU is the saying, aye?
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farfrael
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 18:43:00 -
[1364]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.
Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:
- Explosion Velocity: 60
- Damage: 3200
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
That's all for now.
-Nozh
oh hi, it's you again, i HAD to double-check to make sure. the ****** who advocated using MEDIUM GUNS ON A BATTLESHIP
Originally by: CCP Nozh So are battleships useless in solo combat? Far from it, being the larger ship still has many benefits: * The ability to actually fit smaller weapons to fend of smaller targets
And now you want docking games with Motherships. You are a ****ing idiot. Get out of my game NOW.
WTB dev with a clue of current game mechanics and problems.
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Taarna Galin
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Posted - 2009.11.15 18:52:00 -
[1365]
Edited by: Taarna Galin on 15/11/2009 18:56:17
Originally by: The Internets For whoever was asking, I used a Bumpariel on Sisi with a garage sitting in a Hel @ standstill.
figured it was a mach. Try using the same mach but have the mom begin moving in the direction of the mach as you start your bump approach. Also try it with a vanilla, non-snaked BS. If a snake set bump mach getting a perfect bump on a non-moving SC is the only real way to get it off station, then risk is still about 0.
Originally by: farfrael
Originally by: CCP Nozh So are battleships useless in solo combat? Far from it, being the larger ship still has many benefits: * The ability to actually fit smaller weapons to fend of smaller targets
And now you want docking games with Motherships. You are a ****ing idiot. Get out of my game NOW.
Hahaha, I totally forgot about that Nozh "it looks right on paper" gem.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.15 19:19:00 -
[1366]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Lowering the price requires Fixing to BPO owners and current Mothership owners.
Playing devils advocate here, why? CCP has made all kinds of game changes in the past that have tanked the value of the BPOs and the mods and ships owned by people on TQ. To my knowledge CCP has never rembersed anyone for game play changes.
Quote: Allowing them to dock will create massive imbalance, if someone can afford a Carrier and Dread (which a massive number of people can do) you will see everyone have one of these ships and dock it up and pull it out.
Really? Projected build costs for a Supercarrier are 5 to 6 billion, meaning we'll probably see a price on TQ of 8 to 9 billion. A dread costs about 2.2 billion currently and a regular carrier 800 million.
So after the patch buying a supercarrier will cost 8-9 billion and a regular carrier + dread will cost you 3 billion. That makes the supercarrier rougly 3x as exepnsive as owning a dread and a carrier.
Quote: fleets of 50 motherships for luls easy- from each 0.0 side in regular fleets replacing the carriers they used to have.
You'll see this anyway tbh.
Quote: The docking will mean that its safe to undock kill something, redock, repair undock etc- you nerfed the moros' drones for this reason so your reimplimenting it with the supercarrier, a ship with even more firepower and EHP? So you would need to fix the docking time for these ships- another fix required.
First of all, the reason they nerfed the Moros, at least according to CCP, what that Ogres from a Moros typically did more dps than a carrier's fighters (why not just boost Fighter dps?) Second of all, repairing any significant damage to one of these EHP monsters in a station is going to cost a signficant amount of isk.
Besides which, all of this could be controlled by simply increasing the udock timer for these ships to 1 hour/30 minutes.
My sig don't fracking work. |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.15 19:28:00 -
[1367]
Originally by: Karlemgne Second of all, repairing any significant damage to one of these EHP monsters in a station is going to cost a signficant amount of isk.
Not if you own the outpost. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.15 19:32:00 -
[1368]
Originally by: kapten sortebil http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/pdf/QEN_Q3-2009.pdf
426 Characters in Moterships. Page 6/25
And yes i canceld 4 accounts after this stupid nerf.
LoL. Every patch there are some emo posts like this. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, though I suspect that you didn't actually cancel your accounts. And if you did, good riddance. I never liked playing with people who would sit in the mud and cry when the game didn't go their way. My sig don't fracking work. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:01:00 -
[1369]
Originally by: farfrael Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
Can I have some reimbursement for all the dysprosium I bought earlier and which being nerfed now? I lost many billions on that.
Seems pretty unfair to me why only a certain amount of people - those are yelling loudest - should get some reimbursement because of gameplay changes but all the others won't get reimbursement from gameplay changes.
Oh wait ... see what I did there?
Just LOL - fixed those damned moms and you don't need any reimbursements!!
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casai
Caldari North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:04:00 -
[1370]
Edited by: casai on 15/11/2009 20:06:10 what the f**k about the lost isk for current ms pilots
Dont reduce the cost keep them the same FFS
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Shigsy
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:27:00 -
[1371]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: farfrael Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
Can I have some reimbursement for all the dysprosium I bought earlier and which being nerfed now? I lost many billions on that.
Seems pretty unfair to me why only a certain amount of people - those are yelling loudest - should get some reimbursement because of gameplay changes but all the others won't get reimbursement from gameplay changes.
Oh wait ... see what I did there?
Just LOL - fixed those damned moms and you don't need any reimbursements!!
Erm, direct mineral reduction in build != market speculation.
Join "C&P" ingame! |
King Dave
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:34:00 -
[1372]
Edited by: King Dave on 15/11/2009 20:35:03
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: farfrael Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.
Can I have some reimbursement for all the dysprosium I bought earlier and which being nerfed now? I lost many billions on that.
Seems pretty unfair to me why only a certain amount of people - those are yelling loudest - should get some reimbursement because of gameplay changes but all the others won't get reimbursement from gameplay changes.
There have been no game changes in the past which reduce the actual raw isk value of a ship or commodity (well there may of been but nowhere in the region of billions per unit). Only changes to the stats/ supply of modules/ commodities which cause the demand/supply to find a new equlibrium price.
This is the equivilant to you buying 100,000 unit of dysprosium, then CCP taking 40% of it away from you, because they feel like it.
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Miner Bob
Gods Of Wrath
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:47:00 -
[1373]
I bet all these people whining wouldnt like it if ccp randomly took 6-7b out of their wallet randomly at the whim of a madman (CCP Nozh)
Back on topic
- The fighter bombers need fixing - they cant hit caps properly - kinda stupid for an anticap ship
- Put the build cost back to what it should be - 12b or whatever
- No docking - obv problems and it kinda kills the point of calling it a supercarrier (stupid name btw - mom was nice)
- Wasnt the skillbook for fighter bombers 20% per lvl? Been told its now 10%
- Put back to 20 fighters - and dont even try balance em with the mindset that a mom pilot fits dcus
- Jumprange was nice - needed tbh
- Free CCP Abathur at least he knew what he was doin
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.15 21:03:00 -
[1374]
all i read in this thread is "wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my uber DPS machine is now only a semi-uber DPS machine"
its quite hilarious.
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2009.11.15 21:03:00 -
[1375]
I think needing alt for supercap is the greatest limiting factor on them. Once it is gone there is going to be bucketload of them, if they are worth the isk (currently not really).
BUT, making ship that requires parking alt is horrible way to balance it so personally I don¦t mind seeing that limitation gone. All ships should be worth using at some situation. But yeah, DO NOT allow motherships to dock with standard timers, 30 minutes is probably ok. Want to park your mothership safely? Sit outside station for half an hour and people will think twice before pulling them in and out to gank subcaps. 30 minutes for agression as well. Lowsec station should also have parking fee for them, few millions maybe.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.11.15 21:19:00 -
[1376]
Whoever came up with the idea that changing build cost is a good idea needs to reconsider that a lot.
Do you have any idea how terrible that is from an economic point of view?
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Adam C
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.15 22:34:00 -
[1377]
Do you think supercarriers will be nerfed to using 5 fighter bombers?
___ Its come full circle
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Slavemaster
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Posted - 2009.11.15 22:43:00 -
[1378]
Edited by: Slavemaster on 15/11/2009 22:43:08 Gee...... What a bunch of Whiners.... I support CCP 100% on this. <-- Born 2003
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.15 23:04:00 -
[1379]
Originally by: Slavemaster Edited by: Slavemaster on 15/11/2009 22:43:08 Gee...... What a bunch of Whiners.... I support CCP 100% on this. <-- Born 2003
LOL. That is about as constructive posting as "WAAAHGH wrost change ever, CCP u sux!!!" Or this post for that matter lol. The real lolz start if CCP creates the new moms and they are the same price range as the old moms lol.
fake edit: added some LOLs just for you.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.15 23:10:00 -
[1380]
Originally by: Slavemaster Edited by: Slavemaster on 15/11/2009 22:43:08 Gee...... What a bunch of Whiners.... I support CCP 100% on this. <-- Born 2003
But you don't understand, older players want something to work for.
I got that too, and I was born in 2006. My sig don't fracking work. |
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Ttochpej
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Posted - 2009.11.15 23:29:00 -
[1381]
I think the new changes will be interesting with the added changes to sovereignty, The super carrier is a ship that doesn't have to join battle and can assign fighters, adding docking makes it a even safer investment and now for a cheaper price. I think this is something that is needed to attract players from empire, 6bil is a reachable goal for more people than the previous price. And because it can assign fighters, corps with a few high skill plays could use mother ships to help lower skill level pilots survive and make a living in 0.0
I am glad to hear the current mother ship owners will get reimburse for the cost difference when mother ships become super carriers, ever though I don't own a mother ship the idea that everything in game that I had 'worked' for could be taken away so easily made me think about how much of my spare time I should be investing into a game when things could just change. I realise it was just testing stuff on the 'test server' but it made me realise that the game world of eve while it is a big sand box is still CCP's sand box.
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.15 23:35:00 -
[1382]
It needs to be
3 drones per level (change the bandwidth of fighters / bombers not the amount drones that can be controlled)
Give me back my clone vat!!!
leave the large jump range alone
I would accept a build cost of 11 billion
And KEEP the ewar immunity.
--------------------------------- Anyone who says spider tanking motherships are unkillable or yadda yadda yadda, need to go have a long talk with cry havoc they will educate you on how easy it is to kill a mothership with a hac / bs fleet. Remember motherships are still subject to neut and nos and when their cap runs out they are just a large stationary object.
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Taarna Galin
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Posted - 2009.11.16 00:34:00 -
[1383]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Anyone who says spider tanking motherships are unkillable or yadda yadda yadda, need to go have a long talk with cry havoc they will educate you on how easy it is to kill a mothership with a hac / bs fleet. Remember motherships are still subject to neut and nos and when their cap runs out they are just a large stationary object.
It's not 1,2 or 3 SCs together that is the problem.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.16 01:07:00 -
[1384]
its 20 at once they want to have them still able to be taken down but if u look at some of the other changes factional battleships have been boosted. So more of those in fleets. Drop rates will be afactor they have much more dps no ( mini sub caps anyone) Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Mr Bright
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 02:32:00 -
[1385]
imo keep all the changes and remove 6 billion from everyones wallet, that will give you the response you are looking for ccp -_-
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.16 03:02:00 -
[1386]
FREE ABATHUR ______________________________
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Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 03:10:00 -
[1387]
This:
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Plus:
Originally by: Tarron Sarek Well, to be honest, motherships/supercarriers as capital killers was more of a bandaid solution, since motherships weren't being used, lacked a real role and there weren't that many options.
I'm personally starting to feel bad having ever suggested or supported this role re-definition.
In my humble opinion motherships should have had the Jump Portal Generators in the first place, instead of titans. That would've given them more importance and meaning and I think it would've fit to the term 'mothership'.
Imo Equals:
Implement changes outlined by Aequitas. In addition let Moms keep the clone vat, give them a ganglink bonus and buff the remote ECM so it actually jams ships for ~15 seconds.
Now you have a super capital that is a command platform that has a use as a flagship for smaller entities as well as a bruiser for cap blobs. Make it so they can get into the biggest wormholes then they can also assist with wspace logistics, storing ships, clone jumping members (Mom has to enter kspace of course), then we might see more small/medium size fights involving these ships.
Changes as proposed consist of a supposed supercapital that apart from ewar immunity has no abilities beyond tank and a little bit of gank, which is singularly uninspiring. Also agree with Tarron that Moms having jump portal ability would have made more sense in the first place, but as far as quickly fixing the mess that is Dominion goes just giving them the clone vat back for now is reasonable.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
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Posted - 2009.11.16 03:35:00 -
[1388]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Super Carrier Changes:
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level
- Can dock at stations
That's all for now.
-Nozh
As an aspiring Moros pilot who saw his future dread lose its race-specific drone bonus(*) due to purported station griefing issues(**), now I see that drone-wielding motherships can play games on the undock instead. Really?
How does this differ from a Moros undocking or jumping into a hostile environment and needing to defend itself as best it can with its racial strength, i.e., drones?
(*) - No dread will go into siege when trying to defend itself and escape a trap and thus the race-specific drone bonus will only apply in specific instances when the dread pilot is comfortable sieging his ship.
(**) - who cares about station griefing? EVE already has in-place repercussions for low-sec griefing such as the loss of security status. And in null-sec, isn't that the glorious sandbox that Hilmar loves to talk about? Or is it.
CCP's methodology of meddling in game balance rather than encouraging players to figure out a way to overcome the challenge makes a player feel like they have a case of the dumb. Sandbox, my arse.
p.s. many appologies for the necro on the Moros topic, but I had to point out CCP's inconsistency when it comes to treatment of this dread and its racial bonus as compared to super carriers and their new-found ability to station-hug.
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holyone
Gallente Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 05:35:00 -
[1389]
Edited by: holyone on 16/11/2009 05:44:12
Or, you know, just let ships be unable to launch drones within a station's sphere as it "messes with the undocking lanes" or whatever lore reason is necessary.
That said, I'm curious to see what will happen when the developers come in after their weekend today. I'd be happy with just seeing a good reasoning behind the changes, so far we've just gotten numbers and changes slapped in our faces.
CCP Nozh: Balancing and developing still is a team effort, I assume? If so, where's Abathur's input on this?
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.16 05:43:00 -
[1390]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous FREE ABATHUR
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Mike Yass
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.16 06:54:00 -
[1391]
The real problem with reducing the cost of motherships is it reduces the desire to gank them.
With the intended buff to tanking, they are essentially immune to subcaps. The change to price also affects how many caps you're willing to commit to kill one. At 15 bil/ship plus another 2-3b in fittings it's worth risking around ~15 dreads to take it out. At 6b per ship, it's worth risking ~5 dreads to take it out.
The increase to HP also drastically increases enemy response time. Currently supercaps die to dread fleets before repping triage carriers can undock. After the patch, the defender is going to get 3-4 minutes after the attacking dreads enter siege to rescue a super cap. This is a massive, massive increase in risk to the attacker. Unfortunately, the logic behind cap fleets is that you always deploy as many caps as possible, and that when you lose, you tend to lose everything. The result is that risk of killing a mothership goes way, way up, and with the price nerf, the reward of killing one goes way, way down.
The end result is that motherships will be ****ing everwhere, and no one is going to try and kill them. Your patch will eliminate a nice source of cap fights. Please don't do that.
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Master Arrow
Trinity Capital Endeavors Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.16 07:04:00 -
[1392]
Originally by: Mike Yass The real problem with reducing the cost of motherships is it reduces the desire to gank them.
With the intended buff to tanking, they are essentially immune to subcaps. The change to price also affects how many caps you're willing to commit to kill one. At 15 bil/ship plus another 2-3b in fittings it's worth risking around ~15 dreads to take it out. At 6b per ship, it's worth risking ~5 dreads to take it out.
The increase to HP also drastically increases enemy response time. Currently supercaps die to dread fleets before repping triage carriers can undock. After the patch, the defender is going to get 3-4 minutes after the attacking dreads enter siege to rescue a super cap. This is a massive, massive increase in risk to the attacker. Unfortunately, the logic behind cap fleets is that you always deploy as many caps as possible, and that when you lose, you tend to lose everything. The result is that risk of killing a mothership goes way, way up, and with the price nerf, the reward of killing one goes way, way down.
The end result is that motherships will be ****ing everwhere, and no one is going to try and kill them. Your patch will eliminate a nice source of cap fights. Please don't do that.
I know Goons are famous for stupid posts...but this is epic LOL'n at it's best....this has to be the worst point of view on supercarriers ever considering it comes from someone in goons who are famous for hotdropping anything that is camping a gate. |
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 07:20:00 -
[1393]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 16/11/2009 07:21:03 Nozh's "big picture blog" or at least a solid, good sized response better be out by the time I get home from work tomorrow.
there are many points, but there are two in particular I'd like to emphasize:
-explosion velocity of 3500m = 1/2 damage on dreads, which are about 95% of what's important in a cap fleet. If you are thinking you're going to make SCs just good at killing "moving" caps (aka carriers, SCs and titans), you art a fool. -DCUs are total sh*t. Either increase their effectiveness GREATLY or don't expect a single person to fit a single one off of a station. adding in a fighter/FB only, stacking penalized damage bonus to DCUs (I think someone else suggested this?) would be perfect way to go. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.16 07:21:00 -
[1394]
Originally by: Master Arrow
Originally by: Mike Yass The real problem with reducing the cost of motherships is it reduces the desire to gank them.
With the intended buff to tanking, they are essentially immune to subcaps. The change to price also affects how many caps you're willing to commit to kill one. At 15 bil/ship plus another 2-3b in fittings it's worth risking around ~15 dreads to take it out. At 6b per ship, it's worth risking ~5 dreads to take it out.
The increase to HP also drastically increases enemy response time. Currently supercaps die to dread fleets before repping triage carriers can undock. After the patch, the defender is going to get 3-4 minutes after the attacking dreads enter siege to rescue a super cap. This is a massive, massive increase in risk to the attacker. Unfortunately, the logic behind cap fleets is that you always deploy as many caps as possible, and that when you lose, you tend to lose everything. The result is that risk of killing a mothership goes way, way up, and with the price nerf, the reward of killing one goes way, way down.
The end result is that motherships will be ****ing everwhere, and no one is going to try and kill them. Your patch will eliminate a nice source of cap fights. Please don't do that.
I know Goons are famous for stupid posts...but this is epic LOL'n at it's best....this has to be the worst point of view on supercarriers ever considering it comes from someone in goons who are famous for hotdropping anything that is camping a gate.
Actually its pretty f'in accurate. But don't worry, your bitterness towards goons isn't showing....much. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.16 09:36:00 -
[1395]
First CCP please allow Abathur to handle supercaps. Remember that unhappy customers = not subscribed users. Everything that has been done post Abathurs capital blog blows. Even with the lastet update by Nozh supercarriers are terrible.
Anyway I hope we hear some new info and thought about changes today. Because I think this incarnation of the MOM will be bad for the game. Also 45 pages of rage cant be wrong. To be honest why cant CCP just leave the supercarrier as it was. Help us CCP Abathur your our only hope. Um yeah. Regards ♥ Manny ______________________________
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IntelOut
Caldari Xenobytes Stain Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.16 09:49:00 -
[1396]
Edited by: IntelOut on 16/11/2009 09:49:48 just from test server:
http://i056.radikal.ru/0911/b8/87e5a6a82d4a.jpg
MMM... Thanatos is cheaper... With best regards, IntelOut ___________________________ Homo homini lupus est... |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.16 10:25:00 -
[1397]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 10:25:06
Originally by: Manfred Sideous First CCP please allow Abathur to handle supercaps. Remember that unhappy customers = not subscribed users.
If the 400 or so people who currently own motherships on TQ quit the game over changes to a single ship, then good riddance.
Of those who threaten to quit over this I am sure less than 10% actually will.
Quote: Everything that has been done post Abathurs capital blog blows.
I totally disagree. Most of this stuff is good.
Quote: Even with the lastet update by Nozh supercarriers are terrible.
The whole idea of this ship class for the super-rich in game given to only those who can afford multiple accounts is now, and has always been, terrible.
Quote: Because I think this incarnation of the MOM will be bad for the game.
Capital ships in general are bad for the game. Supercapitals are REALLY bad for the game. Get it right.
Quote: Also 45 pages of rage cant be wrong.
Not all 45 pages if this is emowhine. Besides that logic is awful. I can link you to some **** videos on youtube with over 45 pages of skinheads talking about how great ****** is. Does it follow that they are right?
Quote: To be honest why cant CCP just leave the supercarrier as it was.
Because it was too exclusive. Because they wanted it to fill a specific role that it couldn't in its current instantiation.
Quote: Help us CCP Abathur your our only hope.
Yes, tell the emo-rich supercapital tards that they can't sit in the mud and declare they're quitting eve, and then just get handed what they want.
My sig don't fracking work. |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.16 10:44:00 -
[1398]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous First CCP please allow Abathur to handle supercaps. Remember that unhappy customers = not subscribed users. Everything that has been done post Abathurs capital blog blows. Even with the lastet update by Nozh supercarriers are terrible.
Anyway I hope we hear some new info and thought about changes today. Because I think this incarnation of the MOM will be bad for the game. Also 45 pages of rage cant be wrong. To be honest why cant CCP just leave the supercarrier as it was. Help us CCP Abathur your our only hope. Um yeah. Regards ♥ Manny
Finally a post worth quoting for truth. Really proud of being in the same alliance as Manny. Even those who disagree with him must concede that Everything he has posted in this thread has been well-thought out and civil.
Also, he does make a point. Bully your subscribers and they'll protest. Ask them to accept too much and they'll refuse. There will be a point where your customers will have had enough. Heed the call of your customers and listen to what they have to say. Unless of course you have too much pride to acknowledge when you're wrong. Regards, ♥ Palli
--
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.16 10:57:00 -
[1399]
FREE ABATHUR
Don't know who to vote for? Find out with CSM matchmaker!
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.16 11:04:00 -
[1400]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 16/11/2009 11:05:22 Not only free him.. but put him IN CHARGE of game balance. He proved already (and was clamed by community) as being far better than anything CCP has employed as game balance team since Tuxford at least! ( TO be fair CCP c...nosomethingtoocomplicatedtowrite (the guy from sbomber and naglfar boosts) seemed a good and competent guy, but his changes and moves keep being undone..)
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 11:18:00 -
[1401]
MoM's (Read Supper Carriers) and Titans (Read Giant ****s) Were never cost effective (a goon told me they were???) They are an end game ship used (read sat in at a pos for months) by end game players, there not that good and we like them been not that good, we like that fact that you need many accounts to use them we like that you need massive logistics capability's to build and run these things, we like that people X up as soon as one gets tackled just to be 1% damage on there killmail, we like the fact that not any one can get one,, we like the fact that we cannot dock them, we like spending months grinding isk for them, its something to plan for years in advance (read more isk for ccp) we like the fact that spending 10bill on fittings for them is the norm, there an isk sink epeen with limited use and we like that. Yes there have been times were people could of said there overpowered (lowsec pre HIC, cyno jammed 0.0 systems) but PEOPLE were still able to counter there overpoweredness and kill them. But these chages proposed are completely off the wall. MoMs have not been overpowered for ages and wanting to change them in to a tear two carrier is madness (sparter here again) IF the game developers really do want these changes to go ahead what they really need to do is move all current moms to a station and reproses them into there cap parts, atleast then people can choose to sell all and get back to eve or they can rebuild there mom into a suppercarrier. This is not like any other nerf in the past as most of the time something did need to be done about what ever was been changed MoM's are not currently overpowered and don't need a nerf.
Plan 1: Scrap all changes and keep MoM's as they currently are on TQ
Plan 2: move all MoM's to a station and reproses them into parts
Plan 3: Keep the changes pre Nozh i.e Abathur's incarnation of suppercarriers
Plan 4: Go ahead with these changes don't listen to the people that play the game loose some accounts and then have to nerf them even more in 6months time when you find that what you have done IS totally wrong and loose some more accounts.
Plan 5: ban me from the forums (like you have been doing to people) and delete 200+? Posts (like you have been doing) loose more accounts and then read plan 4.
p.s. Titans need there 5min DD timer again ---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
Major Roy
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Posted - 2009.11.16 11:21:00 -
[1402]
Originally by: Karlemgne Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 10:25:06
Originally by: Manfred Sideous First CCP please allow Abathur to handle supercaps. Remember that unhappy customers = not subscribed users.
If the 400 or so people who currently own motherships on TQ quit the game over changes to a single ship, then good riddance.
Of those who threaten to quit over this I am sure less than 10% actually will.
Quote: Everything that has been done post Abathurs capital blog blows.
I totally disagree. Most of this stuff is good.
Quote: Even with the lastet update by Nozh supercarriers are terrible.
The whole idea of this ship class for the super-rich in game given to only those who can afford multiple accounts is now, and has always been, terrible.
Quote: Because I think this incarnation of the MOM will be bad for the game.
Capital ships in general are bad for the game. Supercapitals are REALLY bad for the game. Get it right.
Quote: Also 45 pages of rage cant be wrong.
Not all 45 pages if this is emowhine. Besides that logic is awful. I can link you to some **** videos on youtube with over 45 pages of skinheads talking about how great ****** is. Does it follow that they are right?
Quote: To be honest why cant CCP just leave the supercarrier as it was.
Because it was too exclusive. Because they wanted it to fill a specific role that it couldn't in its current instantiation.
Quote: Help us CCP Abathur your our only hope.
Yes, tell the emo-rich supercapital tards that they can't sit in the mud and declare they're quitting eve, and then just get handed what they want.
Until you have the b****s to buy one STFU
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.16 11:43:00 -
[1403]
Originally by: Karlemgne
#!*@#!@* stuff
Now tell me. How in your wonderful world of cheap and dockable motherships. How do you envision the threat of a fricking CHEAP 25 M HP ships.. supported by other 10 of those making every station unconquerable and making every low sec station an exclusion zone?
Can't you see that dockabe 6-8 bil isk ships are CHEAP for 0.0? And that instead of 130 dread fleets we WILL have 100 mothershipo fleets that are completely and utterly INVINCIBLE!
At the same time removing a high end aspect of the high end game? If this goes trough.. I will immediately buy 2 motherships for myself and pretty sure at least 2 others in my corp (and its a small and quite POOR low sec corp). And with the almost zero chance of loosing them... there will be no reason for us to use anything else for serious fighting.
Its a loss for everybody at the long run.
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Zyleina Kzorvern
Coronene Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 11:55:00 -
[1404]
The cost was never the issue. Neither was the fact that they could only be built in 0.0. What limited the number of motherships was the need for a dedicated account.
You can reduce the build cost all you want, but if they can't dock, their numbers won't go up that much.
But once it can dock, it can join the 50+ other ships in my hanger. The ultimate cost of owning a mothership or titan was never the ship or mods. It was the dedicated account that you needed to fly it.
Allow them to dock, and even if you increase the build cost, their numbers will shoot up.
Isk is not an issue. Tons of people have way too much of it. With all the powerblocs around, building supercaps in 0.0 won't be that much more risky once sov 4 goes away.
Whether the ship can dock will determine whether it stays exclusive or becomes a common ship that every capital pilot will have in their hanger.
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Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 12:45:00 -
[1405]
Monday today, Stil wonder what day this ccp Nerf gets fierd..
Can't you gett some one who has played the game to fixx stuff? Not by looking at numbers, but by looking at how stuff actaly works!
It's like having a getting a drug dealer working at a rehab senter. it just does not work..
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meanato
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Posted - 2009.11.16 13:24:00 -
[1406]
the way i see it is 2 supercarriers fighting should be like 2 bs fighting, and by that i mean
- 1 super carrier should be able to solo another supercarrier it should take some time but ATM it very very hard to do.-
fighterbomber should have the "ho sh**" factor i.e 20 dreads smacking something cyno opens 8 s/c jump in and the cap fc should get a cold shiver down his spine.
they should go back to the way they were with the 20 bombers because these things are going to be exploding all over the place in cap battles. like i've been saying self rep and deadspace fits are a thing of the past. and thats a good thing nothing i like to see more than cap kills in epic lag filled fights, so they need to be worth risking. witch atm on the test server they are not.
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Tobruk
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:08:00 -
[1407]
This whole thing is so absurd. EVERYHTING WAS FINE BEFORE YOU MADE THESE CHANGES NOZAH
Don't lower cost and gimp the dps hoping that they will become more widespread. If they are good ships they will become more widespread.
Don't let them dock so that more people will buy them. If they were as originally tested on SiSi then people will use them regardless.
Don't gimp the number of drones to reduce lag. Fix the graphics and coding to enable more bombers.
I get what you are going for but all that would have been, simply by leaving things as they were. If you insist on continuing then you owe current MS owners that 5-6 Bil in reduced build cost directly to their wallets, no questions asked. you screwed them big time with your announcement and with these changes.
----------------------------------------------
Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:19:00 -
[1408]
Originally by: Zyleina Kzorvern The cost was never the issue. Neither was the fact that they could only be built in 0.0. What limited the number of motherships was the need for a dedicated account.
You can reduce the build cost all you want, but if they can't dock, their numbers won't go up that much.
But once it can dock, it can join the 50+ other ships in my hanger. The ultimate cost of owning a mothership or titan was never the ship or mods. It was the dedicated account that you needed to fly it.
Allow them to dock, and even if you increase the build cost, their numbers will shoot up.
Isk is not an issue. Tons of people have way too much of it. With all the powerblocs around, building supercaps in 0.0 won't be that much more risky once sov 4 goes away.
Whether the ship can dock will determine whether it stays exclusive or becomes a common ship that every capital pilot will have in their hanger.
Partly true. The reduced price accelerates a lot the procces and opens the door to more players. Specially sided with fact aht now you can insure them if you are goign to try somethign reaaally dumb and dangerous with it.
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:55:00 -
[1409]
Just on sisi, according to super descriptions, they've been re-nerfed to 1 fighter/fighter bomber per level.
Enjoy the monday nerf!
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:56:00 -
[1410]
Originally by: Kai Lae Just on sisi, according to super descriptions, they've been re-nerfed to 1 fighter/fighter bomber per level.
Enjoy the monday nerf!
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.11.16 15:02:00 -
[1411]
Edited by: Catari Taga on 16/11/2009 15:04:35
Originally by: Zyleina Kzorvern You can reduce the build cost all you want, but if they can't dock, their numbers won't go up that much.
But once it can dock, it can join the 50+ other ships in my hanger. The ultimate cost of owning a mothership or titan was never the ship or mods. It was the dedicated account that you needed to fly it.
Allow them to dock, and even if you increase the build cost, their numbers will shoot up.
Definitely. I know many players who will get one if this goes live. The only reasonable explanation is that this is CCP's intention. I don't understand why they think this is a good idea though.
PS: Nerfs to DPS are balanced by the fact that a couple of these ships are an unkillable logistics platform IMO.
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.16 15:07:00 -
[1412]
Originally by: Tobruk This whole thing is so absurd. EVERYHTING WAS FINE BEFORE YOU MADE THESE CHANGES NOZAH
Don't lower cost and gimp the dps hoping that they will become more widespread. If they are good ships they will become more widespread.
Don't let them dock so that more people will buy them. If they were as originally tested on SiSi then people will use them regardless.
Don't gimp the number of drones to reduce lag. Fix the graphics and coding to enable more bombers.
I get what you are going for but all that would have been, simply by leaving things as they were. If you insist on continuing then you owe current MS owners that 5-6 Bil in reduced build cost directly to their wallets, no questions asked. you screwed them big time with your announcement and with these changes.
alot of people are saying that we super cap owners are whinnning due to the dps loss i would still like the 20 drones/fighters but the real hit here is the fact that here is such a big isk loss never in eve has any 1 item loss such value in one go. well not in my 3 almost 4 years of playing yes we had the speed nerf and people lost bills from items they could not sell in time this is the 1st time any item has lost 10b in market value.
if this hits TQ it will be the biggest nerf to the game in an isk value and yes even a dps value. 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Skags
Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 15:12:00 -
[1413]
Originally by: Kai Lae Just on sisi, according to super descriptions, they've been re-nerfed to 1 fighter/fighter bomber per level.
Enjoy the monday nerf!
Did it ever cange? I was on Saterday and I think it was still 1. Another thing if there is isk given for price devalue to the SC's if someone has one cooking in the oven and it comes out a few days after patch day how are those taken care of and does it go to the toon who is cooking the ship or who ends up in the ship or some sort of peticion system?
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MAX MEXX
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Posted - 2009.11.16 15:17:00 -
[1414]
I do love how CCP randonmly removes post from this thred.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.16 15:32:00 -
[1415]
Originally by: MAX MEXX I do love how CCP randonmly removes post from this thred.
Heh, and I thought my browser was acting up.
Anyway the new patch is up and have not noticed any changes done to Supercapitals yet.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.16 16:05:00 -
[1416]
10.28.2009: CCP Abathur: Supercarriers will not be docking in Dominion. If this ever happens it will be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade.
<----What Happened here? Did Nozh stuff Abathur into a trunk somewhere and take the reins?
11.13.2009: CCP Nozh: Super Carrier Changes: Can dock at stations
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Meh Orka
Amarr Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 16:20:00 -
[1417]
Just make a new tier 2 carrier and leave the current motherships as they are. Tier 1 Carrier: the current carriers Tier 2 Carrier: Fighter Bomber/Anti capital spec. ship Tier 3 Carrier: Motherships
- New ships = GOOD - Nerfing ships = BAD
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hermina
Amarr Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 16:20:00 -
[1418]
Just make a new tier 2 carrier and leave the current motherships as they are. Tier 1 Carrier: the current carriers Tier 2 Carrier: Fighter Bomber/Anti capital spec. ship Tier 3 Carrier: Motherships
- New ships = GOOD - Nerfing ships = BAD
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Kate Pole
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Posted - 2009.11.16 16:31:00 -
[1419]
Originally by: hermina Just make a new tier 2 carrier and leave the current motherships as they are. Tier 1 Carrier: the current carriers Tier 2 Carrier: Fighter Bomber/Anti capital spec. ship Tier 3 Carrier: Motherships
- New ships = GOOD - Nerfing ships = BAD
Problem is MOMs as they are now are broken. Not enough dps, tank and jump range even with JC5 cant go with the rest of caps... so no, they need a boost on all lvls.
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 16:35:00 -
[1420]
Originally by: McFly 10.28.2009: CCP Abathur: Supercarriers will not be docking in Dominion. If this ever happens it will be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade.
<----What Happened here? Did Nozh stuff Abathur into a trunk somewhere and take the reins?
11.13.2009: CCP Nozh: Super Carrier Changes: Can dock at stations
QFT and history ..
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Mike Yass
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.16 16:40:00 -
[1421]
Originally by: Master Arrow
Originally by: Mike Yass The real problem with reducing the cost of motherships is it reduces the desire to gank them.
With the intended buff to tanking, they are essentially immune to subcaps. The change to price also affects how many caps you're willing to commit to kill one. At 15 bil/ship plus another 2-3b in fittings it's worth risking around ~15 dreads to take it out. At 6b per ship, it's worth risking ~5 dreads to take it out.
The increase to HP also drastically increases enemy response time. Currently supercaps die to dread fleets before repping triage carriers can undock. After the patch, the defender is going to get 3-4 minutes after the attacking dreads enter siege to rescue a super cap. This is a massive, massive increase in risk to the attacker. Unfortunately, the logic behind cap fleets is that you always deploy as many caps as possible, and that when you lose, you tend to lose everything. The result is that risk of killing a mothership goes way, way up, and with the price nerf, the reward of killing one goes way, way down.
The end result is that motherships will be ****ing everwhere, and no one is going to try and kill them. Your patch will eliminate a nice source of cap fights. Please don't do that.
I know Goons are famous for stupid posts...but this is epic LOL'n at it's best....this has to be the worst point of view on supercarriers ever considering it comes from someone in goons who are famous for hotdropping anything that is camping a gate.
You're pretty dumb. The reason we abuse our capitals against small ships is that it's fun, it's nearly risk free and free to the pilot, and under certain situations, profitable for the pilot thanks to our reimbursement policy.
If you're going to gank a mothership in a competent alliance in dominion, you're going to get counter-dropped. That's not the case currently, as the asset they would counter-drop to save is already dead by the time they get a cyno in system.
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
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Posted - 2009.11.16 16:51:00 -
[1422]
Don't worry guys, I'm sure there's no chance that'll ccp will keep saying stuff on sisi is subject to change then announce a feature lock in a week's time with no significant changes to now. No chance at all
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.16 16:54:00 -
[1423]
Edited by: fairimear on 16/11/2009 16:54:59 this entire chapter of eve stinks.
THE CHANGES.
THE AMOUNT OF DEV RESPONCE.
THE LACK OF ANY REASON.
THE TOTAL INSULT TO EVERY 1 WHO HAS EVER PUT THE TIME REQUIRED FOR 1 OF THE SHIPS IN.
BUT MOSTLY
CCP STEALTH REMOVING POSTS FROM THIS THREAD + LOCKING A PERFECTLY VALID PETITION ON A PERFECTLY APROPRIATE FORUM FOR IT AND TELLING US TO USE CSM, AT A TIME WHEN CSM CAN'T EVEN DO JACK BECAUSE THE ARE BEING ELECTED NOW AND THE OLD ONES WILL NOT HAVE TIME IN THEIR TERM TO PROBABLY EVEN TALK TO CCP ONCE.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Raiga88
Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:19:00 -
[1424]
THE END IS NEAR !
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Susy Assulu
Caldari Atomic Mexicans
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:26:00 -
[1425]
Originally by: Raiga88 THE END IS NEAR !
THE TRUTH!
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Hakaru Ishiwara
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:29:00 -
[1426]
To those who perceive Moms and this project management / customer relationship fiasco by CCP to be the exclusive concern of the super rich and elite in EVE, you couldn't be more mistaken.
What about those pilots who mined or gathered up the ore, built the capital components (AND invested in the capital component BPOs / BPCs) and performed the logistics to make it possible for one of these ships to be built?
Many pilots comprise the industrial chain required to build a super capital ship and not all of those pilots are super rich. Let us also not forget the pilots who hold and protect the space in which these ships are built.
These sudden and poorly communicated changes impact more pilots than is apparent by simply reading the test server feedback threads.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:31:00 -
[1427]
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara To those who perceive Moms and this project management / customer relationship fiasco by CCP to be the exclusive concern of the super rich and elite in EVE, you couldn't be more mistaken.
What about those pilots who mined or gathered up the ore, built the capital components (AND invested in the capital component BPOs / BPCs) and performed the logistics to make it possible for one of these ships to be built?
Hear hear! --- 34.4:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Captain Jonah
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:56:00 -
[1428]
Smells like Sony got involved...
Is Dominion CCP's "NGE"? (Starwars Galaxies epic fail)
-Gag intelligence, check -Ignore the playerbase, check -Nerf the end game and make sure most anyone get in on it (Jedi / Supercaps), check -Learn nothing by watching other MMO mistakes, looking like a check
-Mom account in training ready to cancel, check
Sad to see this unfolding... |
Saurish
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Posted - 2009.11.16 18:07:00 -
[1429]
Originally by: Captain Jonah Smells like Sony got involved...
Is Dominion CCP's "NGE"? (Starwars Galaxies epic fail)
-Gag intelligence, check -Ignore the playerbase, check -Nerf the end game and make sure most anyone get in on it (Jedi / Supercaps), check -Learn nothing by watching other MMO mistakes, looking like a check
-Mom account in training ready to cancel, check
Sad to see this unfolding...
This quote is probaly the most serius argument to any developer of CCP.
But if developer cannot solve what Captain Jonah said, then i have no idea wtf is he doing at mmorpg game.
Dumping down game for new players and for "masses", WoW is that way .
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.16 18:07:00 -
[1430]
Oh no! You are no longer a super elite space pilot! What will you ever do??????? I AM QUITTING RIGHT NOW YOU HEAR ME??????????? QUITTING EVERYONE IS GOING TO DIE AND THE SKY IS FALLING AND I AM IMPRTANT AND QUITTING AND CANCELLING MY 550 ACCOUNTS GOD DAMN YOU ALL
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.16 18:55:00 -
[1431]
Originally by: McFly 10.28.2009: CCP Abathur: Supercarriers will not be docking in Dominion. If this ever happens it will be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade.
<----What Happened here? Did Nozh stuff Abathur into a trunk somewhere and take the reins?
11.13.2009: CCP Nozh: Super Carrier Changes: Can dock at stations
Add to this 2009.09.15: CCP Abathur: One side effect of this change is that the build cost for Supercarriers will go down slightly as they will no longer require the Capital Clone Vat Bay components.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Taarna Galin
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:02:00 -
[1432]
It looks like the workday has come and gone for Nozh and he couldn't spare 5 minutes to post something, anything.
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:11:00 -
[1433]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Oh no! You are no longer a super elite space pilot! What will you ever do??????? I AM QUITTING RIGHT NOW YOU HEAR ME??????????? QUITTING EVERYONE IS GOING TO DIE AND THE SKY IS FALLING AND I AM IMPRTANT AND QUITTING AND CANCELLING MY 550 ACCOUNTS GOD DAMN YOU ALL
Nevertheless you are well known emo faggot, this is one of the very few times that i can agree with you.
All that i see is a bunch of old players screaming in horror that somebody may enter their special 2003 club and be able to pilot a mothership - BLASPHEMY.
All the threats for mass suicides, wrist cuts and account deleting are exactly because they already have a mothership and they want to be few and special, they want pawnmobile, expensive one, and to not be able to dock exactly because of the same reason.
I can agree about the docking games argument but there must be some way or game mechanic to prevent this, like docking timer or implementing some expensive outpost upgrade for docking. Everybody here raging against docking under any circumstances have only one thing in mind "Don't let other people be special like me".
Its not like every new pilot will jump from Ibis to Wyvern, you need years of training and tons of money to be able to afford one anyway.
Just my opinion, flame on....
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:24:00 -
[1434]
Originally by: Taarna Galin It looks like the workday has come and gone for Nozh and he couldn't spare 5 minutes to post something, anything.
remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan
i mean no reply from any ccp dev and no dev blog also changes not happing on sisi, i think his post with the changes to docking and 2 fighter/drones per level was just a ploy to get us to wait and then it will hit tq and will be told no this is it.
also this is one of the devs along with zulupark who wants only 5 fighter/drones for carriers and ms with us having to give out the others now that he has took 50% away from the ms how long till he removes the other 25%.
ccp rp = look we value our players we even have a csm group made up and voted by the players ccp reality = we make the rules if you don't like it tought.
while i would like to go to fanfest where alot of talking on the super caps took place i now fell it is a pr stunt and like most stunts ends up going bad. 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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casai
Caldari North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:25:00 -
[1435]
Originally by: Sajeera
Its not like every new pilot will jump from Ibis to Wyvern, you need years of training and tons of money to be able to afford one anyway.
Just my opinion, flame on....
just need carrier lvl 3 and its not soo expensive anymore to fly these
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Shepard Book
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:26:00 -
[1436]
I like all the recent changes. I would say buff the dps on each fighter bomber themselves and not buckle to the more fight bombers deployed IF the DPS needs to go up. Reason being to help with lag. Keep up the good work!
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Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:35:00 -
[1437]
I'm looking for Nozh's dev blog, but I'm not finding it. The last minute is not the right time to implement massive changes.
What's wrong with sticking to what everyone agreed to be good, THEN assess the need for a nerf or change later?
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:39:00 -
[1438]
Originally by: Agmar I'm looking for Nozh's dev blog, but I'm not finding it. The last minute is not the right time to implement massive changes.
What's wrong with sticking to what everyone agreed to be good, THEN assess the need for a nerf or change later?
that would need ccp to use logic 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:41:00 -
[1439]
ok I have a thing to say.
For all the ccp devs who dont want to read the past 47 pages here is a quick summary of everything.
First, why the vets are angry.
Nerfing the cost requirements is a slap in the face of your customers. You have insulted them, and the people who produce those super caps by saying, Instead of being the pround few who can pilot or produce these marvelous ships, we are going to make this end game material like all the other mmo's and make it easy access for anyone to have. Devs - EvE Online has NEVER been great because it is easy, it is great because all pilots work their butts off to get the ship of their dreams, or be apart of something great. If stuff is cheap and the skills are easy to get then what is the point of working for the end game goals if they are easy to get. DO THE RIGHT THING, raise the cost up again by adding in the clone vat bay, and keep it at ~16 billion.
EvE community - granted super capital pilots are the minority in eve, but they are also the ones that generally run the corps or have substantial assets or are directors in corps. Please be respectful of their opinions, they are leaders for a reason.
2nd point unhappy nerf Super capitals are super capitals for a reason, they are to be 10-100 greater than nomral caps. With nerfs like this a mothership is just a super expensive carrier and a titan would be nothing more that a paper weight.
Super caps are there to strike fear into people. When motherships are fielded its mor fun to here "OH @#!%@#!%! motherships on the field, everyone warp out and regroup and get some support in here" Not, "oh look is a guy flying a mothership, how cute, guys new primary."
So devs once again do the right thing, +3 drones per level, keep the clone vat and the super triage modules on them. If you want to mess with the dps, mess with bomber bandwidth, not the drone control amount.
This is EvE online this is about internet spaceships, and the pride that comes with them. This game IS NOT supposed to be easy or have any sort of instant gratification.
Do the right thing.
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Magna Star
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:46:00 -
[1440]
is it true that Super Carriers will be able to dock in an NPC stations (I havent read the 47 page thread)
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Quamar Marib
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:47:00 -
[1441]
Originally by: cpu939
remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan
and when this backfires like with NGE - well, he's not responsible, he only meant good, and by the way, give him the bonus and the stock options, he worked hard, had to silence half of dev team and most of the community, he deserves that.
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Odda
Gallente Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:50:00 -
[1442]
So today now on sisi they have implemented the Cost reduction, but not added more drones!
CCP you shuld realy start listeing to players, not just those who reads papers.
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Fluffy Pillows
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Posted - 2009.11.16 19:53:00 -
[1443]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk ok I have a thing to say.
Good Stuff went here - Really salient point left below..
This is EvE online this is about internet spaceships, and the pride that comes with them. This game IS NOT supposed to be easy or have any sort of instant gratification.
Do the right thing.
I appreciate the sales perspective of ease of access. But I have to agree with Obsidian on why a lot of us play.. Because it takes time and effort to achieve success.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.16 20:05:00 -
[1444]
Originally by: Fluffy Pillows
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk ok I have a thing to say.
Good Stuff went here - Really salient point left below..
This is EvE online this is about internet spaceships, and the pride that comes with them. This game IS NOT supposed to be easy or have any sort of instant gratification.
Do the right thing.
I appreciate the sales perspective of ease of access. But I have to agree with Obsidian on why a lot of us play.. Because it takes time and effort to achieve success.
And that is why many of us stayed, CCP design and marketing is brilliant.. you kept us on the hook for a long time despite some hilarious design flaws or nerfs.
But making Supercarriers easy and cheap to own? See what I mean?
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Axel Terizaki
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Posted - 2009.11.16 20:07:00 -
[1445]
OK stop smoke ccp guys :x you will put 10b in my wallet to compensate the isk loss ? i don't care about docking, i just want that my ****ing nyx stay a valid ship ! (with 20 drones !)
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.16 20:35:00 -
[1446]
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 16/11/2009 20:40:36 wow really?...still no reply from CCP on this? I think we would like to hear something from a SENIOR dev or someone who's actually played the game.
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John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.16 20:45:00 -
[1447]
The Devs did say they will have a dev blog soon. Will need to wait and see I guess.
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 20:53:00 -
[1448]
Originally by: McFly 10.28.2009: CCP Abathur: Supercarriers will not be docking in Dominion. If this ever happens it will be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade.
<----What Happened here? Did Nozh stuff Abathur into a trunk somewhere and take the reins?
11.13.2009: CCP Nozh: Super Carrier Changes: Can dock at stations
Free Abathur
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Pasha Cracken
Caldari CyberTecK Production Technologies The Forgotten.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 21:20:00 -
[1449]
Iw as going to start training caldari carrer 5 and fighters 5.
Im actually glad I havent yet. It would seem like a complete waste of time.
Ill stick to my chimera after learning about this. Its pathetic and a slap in the face for other mom pilots that have spent the months it takes to train those skills, and pay 16-20 bln for the ship.
This is unacceptable.
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Thargorr
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.16 21:21:00 -
[1450]
Soooo now that Titans are useless and Motherships are just regular ole' carriers what's the point of HICs (who were introduced as the one shiptype that could tackle supercaps)?
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karnor hulltanker
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.16 21:24:00 -
[1451]
CCP !!!!!
you guys really don't have a clue do you :p
Fix this **** quickly please
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:07:00 -
[1452]
Originally by: Thargorr Soooo now that Titans are useless and Motherships are just regular ole' carriers what's the point of HICs (who were introduced as the one shiptype that could tackle supercaps)?
Well, they still are the only shiptype that can tackle supercaps in lowsec, pretty much the only viable gate tackler for small outlaw gangs and the only tackler that ignores warpcore stabs. I cant actually remember having ever tackled a supercap in mine.
About the recent changes, what I have the biggest issue to see the reason for are
- reduced build cost: makes them too affordable, its supposed to be an effort getting into one, and 6-9bill arent all that much.
- docking: thats just opening a huge can of worms regarding the ever popular docking games, no sane person will deny there is a big issue there. Also platinum insurance additionaly reduces the loss factor way too much, sure they should be used on the field but losing one should mean something.
About the damage output I'm not really sure, +2 fighters / lvl seems decent given the huge HP boost they got, and taking into account they are meant to be used against capitals now reducing dps against subcaps isnt really that horrible.
Damage output against dreads would need to be looked at though, easiest fix for that one would be a flat 1k increase in sig radius from the siege module.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:16:00 -
[1453]
Originally by: Quamar Marib
Originally by: cpu939
remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan
and when this backfires like with NGE - well, he's not responsible, he only meant good, and by the way, give him the bonus and the stock options, he worked hard, had to silence half of dev team and most of the community, he deserves that.
Yes, you are so right. Changing a ship that exactly 426 people out of 200,000 fly is exactly analogous to the NGE in SWG. My sig don't fracking work. |
Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:19:00 -
[1454]
Edited by: Mkiaki on 16/11/2009 22:19:27
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Quamar Marib
Originally by: cpu939
remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan
and when this backfires like with NGE - well, he's not responsible, he only meant good, and by the way, give him the bonus and the stock options, he worked hard, had to silence half of dev team and most of the community, he deserves that.
Yes, you are so right. Changing a ship that exactly 426 people out of 200,000 fly is exactly analogous to the NGE in SWG.
The pilots of those ships are getting all teary eyed about not being so elite.
it's a game with pixels, grow a ****in pair.
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Kate Pole
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:24:00 -
[1455]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Quamar Marib
Originally by: cpu939
remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan
and when this backfires like with NGE - well, he's not responsible, he only meant good, and by the way, give him the bonus and the stock options, he worked hard, had to silence half of dev team and most of the community, he deserves that.
Yes, you are so right. Changing a ship that exactly 426 people out of 200,000 fly is exactly analogous to the NGE in SWG.
426 people... ok well How about the miners, builders, researchers, faction/officer ect mods, anyone involved in the market etc....etc.... so while only a "few" may fly them MANY are part of the processes. So CCP Screwing over people who have one or would want one will decrease demand there buy lowering the need for mins and not buying the mods .. its a snow ball effect
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:25:00 -
[1456]
Originally by: Tappits
They are an end game ship used (read sat in at a pos for months) by end game players
Please enlighten us all, what exactly is an "end game player" in eve? Last time I looked, eve was a sandbox and there really wasn't any such thing as "end game."
Or maybe I just didn't get the message, because as a 4 year old player with over 60 million skill points I've never so much as contemplated wanting to fly one of these large epeens. For that matter I'd rather have my eyes gouged out than have to play the game like most of the 0.0 "end gamers" do.
My point is, stop ****ing considering what you do "end game." Stop thinking that you have the right to dictate to people what should or should not be "end game."
Seriously. The one thing I've had enough of in this thread is people with over inflated senses of their own position in the imaginary "eve universe" dictating to the rest of us what the game, and motherships, are supposed to be about.
My sig don't fracking work. |
Fogy
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.16 22:28:00 -
[1457]
Edited by: Fogy on 16/11/2009 22:32:13
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Quamar Marib
Originally by: cpu939
remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan
and when this backfires like with NGE - well, he's not responsible, he only meant good, and by the way, give him the bonus and the stock options, he worked hard, had to silence half of dev team and most of the community, he deserves that.
Yes, you are so right. Changing a ship that exactly 426 people out of 200,000 fly is exactly analogous to the NGE in SWG.
Do you realy fail to see that the low number of this shiptype was due to it's incredibly nerfed status?
Do thous numbers include ships built since the initial patchblog and changes were put in place by CCP Abathur?
With your logic, CCP should dropp the cost of titans aswell.. What a grate game we would end up with..
"EVE Online: Shenanigans"
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:33:00 -
[1458]
Originally by: Kate Pole
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Quamar Marib
Originally by: cpu939
remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan
and when this backfires like with NGE - well, he's not responsible, he only meant good, and by the way, give him the bonus and the stock options, he worked hard, had to silence half of dev team and most of the community, he deserves that.
Yes, you are so right. Changing a ship that exactly 426 people out of 200,000 fly is exactly analogous to the NGE in SWG.
426 people... ok well How about the miners, builders, researchers, faction/officer ect mods, anyone involved in the market etc....etc.... so while only a "few" may fly them MANY are part of the processes. So CCP Screwing over people who have one or would want one will decrease demand there buy lowering the need for mins and not buying the mods .. its a snow ball effect
Right, because so much of the total amount of minerals mined in this game go to super cap production. Similarly, there are SOOO many people who own these BPOs and research them.
Besides which, as we've already established we'd see a proliferation of these on TQ if this change went live.
So even IF "miners" are affected, it won't be adversely. You know, higher demand for the ship means higher demand for the minerals to build them, as well as higher demand for the blueprints to make them (so it seems your poor researchers in this scenario aren't hurt as badly either)?
As for the officer loot market, don't make me laugh. Like the current costs of officer mods will decrease. Please. Or as if the super rich won't continue to buy them.
Seems the only people affected directly by this change are still the 426 people who actually own them already. In which case, I continue to argue that comparing this change to the NGE is ****ing ridiculous.
And by the way, that's ignoring all of the other things that affected a lot more people that were supposed to be eve's "NGE"--like the speed nerf and the Falcon nerf. My sig don't fracking work. |
Ne0tr0n
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.16 22:35:00 -
[1459]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Tappits
They are an end game ship used (read sat in at a pos for months) by end game players
Please enlighten us all, what exactly is an "end game player" in eve? Last time I looked, eve was a sandbox and there really wasn't any such thing as "end game."
Or maybe I just didn't get the message, because as a 4 year old player with over 60 million skill points I've never so much as contemplated wanting to fly one of these large epeens. For that matter I'd rather have my eyes gouged out than have to play the game like most of the 0.0 "end gamers" do.
My point is, stop ****ing considering what you do "end game." Stop thinking that you have the right to dictate to people what should or should not be "end game."
Seriously. The one thing I've had enough of in this thread is people with over inflated senses of their own position in the imaginary "eve universe" dictating to the rest of us what the game, and motherships, are supposed to be about.
so you consider the 2 largest ships in eve with the most effort in bilding/grinding isk/logistics/what ever, not to be "end game"?
makes sense
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:39:00 -
[1460]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 22:44:24 Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 22:43:40 Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 22:39:19
Originally by: Fogy Edited by: Fogy on 16/11/2009 22:32:13
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Quamar Marib
Originally by: cpu939
remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan
and when this backfires like with NGE - well, he's not responsible, he only meant good, and by the way, give him the bonus and the stock options, he worked hard, had to silence half of dev team and most of the community, he deserves that.
Yes, you are so right. Changing a ship that exactly 426 people out of 200,000 fly is exactly analogous to the NGE in SWG.
Do you realy fail to see that the low number of this shiptype was due to it's incredibly nerfed status?
Do thous numbers include ships built since the initial patchblog and changes were put in place by CCP Abathur?
With your logic, CCP should dropp the cost of titans aswell.. What a grate game we would end up with..
Sure, okay, fine. Explain to me exactly then, if 426 people fly them now, and more will fly them after the patch, how is this change ANYTHING like the NGE in SWG?
You know what the NGE is right? Where SOE completely changed how the entire combat system in SWG worked?
Just lay off the comparisons to the NGE. They just make you look dumb.
*edit
I don't even think Titans should be in game, tbh. They were broken then, they're broken now, and their proliferation is one of the worst things that ever happened to this game.
Suffice it to say, in this circumstance, however, I think they're different animals. Titan's still operate as the jump bridging super-ship of alliances. I'm fine if they remain in the hands of alliances only.
However, they want to transform supercarriers into anti-capital ship platforms. In that case, since this has become capital ship online, and those of us NOT in mega-alliances need to combat hotdrops on cruiser fights, then I think the changes to mothers is justified.
That's my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. What I am not doing is threatening to close my accounts, declaring that the game is dead, or telling other people they don't the right to their opinions because they're not "end gamers." My sig don't fracking work. |
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Vire Amarr
Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:43:00 -
[1461]
Edited by: Vire Amarr on 16/11/2009 22:43:36 CCP allways proceed the same way when they nerf stuff
1) do a big stupid nerf that was not the real aim. 2) let people concerned by this ship go rable rable rable .. 3)Set up the real change they wanted to do 4) Let others people point out people that were concerned as a minority so that the community goes : Finally that nerf is fine, and F... off for the people that were using the ship concerned. 5) CCP is happy 6) We are FCKED
People no concerned by having or wanting a Mothership, dont point out others because your are not interested or because you "hate" "powerplayer" When the nerfbat will come for your ass, you'll be very happy to have the support of all.
Doing this you are been the puppet of CCP and help CCP doing what they want and giving you the illusion that you decide.
Is it necessary to remind you all guyz what ccp means ?
Crowd Controle Program
I'm pretty sure that they know how to impose stuff and let people think they had an impact on it.
Before throwing stuff to each other, throw them both to CCP when so stupid stuff is going on Co-CEO Kernel Of War Vire Amarr Capital Inc Kernel Of War >> Faites face a votre avenir
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Cain m
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:50:00 -
[1462]
Actually it's Crowd Control Productions aka ****s Counting Profits
Originally by: YouDoNotOwnSalvage You do not in any way shape or form own salvage.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:51:00 -
[1463]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 22:52:25
Originally by: Ne0tr0n
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Tappits
They are an end game ship used (read sat in at a pos for months) by end game players
Please enlighten us all, what exactly is an "end game player" in eve? Last time I looked, eve was a sandbox and there really wasn't any such thing as "end game."
Or maybe I just didn't get the message, because as a 4 year old player with over 60 million skill points I've never so much as contemplated wanting to fly one of these large epeens. For that matter I'd rather have my eyes gouged out than have to play the game like most of the 0.0 "end gamers" do.
My point is, stop ****ing considering what you do "end game." Stop thinking that you have the right to dictate to people what should or should not be "end game."
Seriously. The one thing I've had enough of in this thread is people with over inflated senses of their own position in the imaginary "eve universe" dictating to the rest of us what the game, and motherships, are supposed to be about.
so you consider the 2 largest ships in eve with the most effort in bilding/grinding isk/logistics/what ever, not to be "end game"?
makes sense
Number one, there is no end game. Its a sandbox game, you set your own goals, and as far as I can tell after 4 years of playing, I've never exhausted mine.
But, if you're going to argue that there is such a thing as "end game" in eve, I'd like to know what it is and how you get there.
What is the level cutoff? Oh wait, this is eve, there isn't one.. Is it skill points then? At what point do skill points qualify you for "end game." 20 million? 30? 50? 60?
Isk? Does that qualify you for end game? I've got a trading alt that made 12 billion in 2 months. Is she an "end game" pilot? I think not.
And lets not forget that buying gametime for real money and selling it for isk is allowed. So is buying characters for isk, which makes this entire point academic. Someone who has been playing the game a week, and has the money to spend, could be in supercarrier tomorrow. My sig don't fracking work. |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.16 22:57:00 -
[1464]
Originally by: Cain m Actually it's Crowd Control Productions aka ****s Counting Profits
And what is CCP of not a capitalist entity? Did you think they were providing some free service for the benefit of mankind? My sig don't fracking work. |
Luka Cino
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.16 23:01:00 -
[1465]
The QEN3-number is bullocks.
I know firsthand because my corp went from 0 to 4 the minute the initial devblog by Abathur got released.
So I guess that we have reached at least a 4-digitnumber by now.
Maybe that is one aspect that caused CCP to panic. But I want to add, that we did it in such a rushed manner only due to the fact, that we wanted to do it, while there was still Sov 4 around. No more Supercaps in the near future (maybe a titan or two). Our haulers would probably strike, because they had to neglect their families to get the job done.
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Vire Amarr
Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.16 23:02:00 -
[1466]
Originally by: Cain m Actually it's Crowd Control Productions aka ****s Counting Profits
Well my bad ^^ but the meaning is close :)
Co-CEO Kernel Of War Vire Amarr Capital Inc Kernel Of War >> Faites face a votre avenir
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Jenessa
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 23:13:00 -
[1467]
Edited by: Jenessa on 16/11/2009 23:13:46 People keep talking about a proliferation of SC's if these changes go through.
Where have CCP said that SC's will be buildable in stations?? Did I miss it?
When you factor into it the 23 day build time, the fact a capital ship assembly array is needed to build each and every one I really doubt SC's would be anything like a common sight.
And this rubbish about docking games, you mean like carriers do now? I mean whats the difference between the two when it comes to that kinda stuff? Or are people just moaning about how frustrating they might feel to fire on a SC on a station and then see it dock like dreads/carriers do now. Oh no how awful!!
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Fogy
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.16 23:13:00 -
[1468]
Originally by: Karlemgne Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 22:44:24 Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 22:43:40 Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 22:39:19
Originally by: Fogy Edited by: Fogy on 16/11/2009 22:32:13
Originally by: Karlemgne
Yes, you are so right. Changing a ship that exactly 426 people out of 200,000 fly is exactly analogous to the NGE in SWG.
Do you realy fail to see that the low number of this shiptype was due to it's incredibly nerfed status?
Do thous numbers include ships built since the initial patchblog and changes were put in place by CCP Abathur?
With your logic, CCP should dropp the cost of titans aswell.. What a grate game we would end up with..
Sure, okay, fine. Explain to me exactly then, if 426 people fly them now, and more will fly them after the patch, how is this change ANYTHING like the NGE in SWG?
You know what the NGE is right? Where SOE completely changed how the entire combat system in SWG worked?
Just lay off the comparisons to the NGE. They just make you look dumb.
*edit
I don't even think Titans should be in game, tbh. They were broken then, they're broken now, and their proliferation is one of the worst things that ever happened to this game.
Suffice it to say, in this circumstance, however, I think they're different animals. Titan's still operate as the jump bridging super-ship of alliances. I'm fine if they remain in the hands of alliances only.
However, they want to transform supercarriers into anti-capital ship platforms. In that case, since this has become capital ship online, and those of us NOT in mega-alliances need to combat hotdrops on cruiser fights, then I think the changes to mothers is justified.
That's my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. What I am not doing is threatening to close my accounts, declaring that the game is dead, or telling other people they don't the right to their opinions because they're not "end gamers."
Allright, from what i understand.. NGE was some patch, expansion or whatnot, that ruined SWG. or something.
The comparison people are pulling from this is how the mom change (reduced cost, increased EHP and docking ability) with the Dominion sov combat change; having to reinforce outposts/conquerable stations.. Twice mind you. will be the game breaker. buttloads of easily aquirable motherships camping their stations while the invaders are trying to take over their system.
Dominion comes with more then the mom changes remember? ;)
Titans, yes they are ment to be tools of war for 0.0 alliances. In my opinion so are motherships ment to be, that they are some times used othervice is a diferent storry. Personaly I'd be happy if fighterbombers got the same treatment as doomsdays, bombs, and dictor/hictor boubbles for lowsec.
Most of the players i know that own motherships has taken the time and put in the effort to grind up the isk or minnerals for them by them self (me included) I can think of 3 that are owned by the corporation the pilotes are in. but even thous ships has been financed through mining, production/sale. EVE is a M-Multiplayer-ORPG afterall.
I wouldnt give a ****t if fighterbombers go the same treatment as bombs, dictor/hictor boubbles, etc for lowsec.
As for what End Game is in EVE, IMO 0.0 is. Thats where the REAL sandbox of this game is.
Dont think i'w threatned with closing my accounts over this eighter, but I'w never felt treated this bad as a customer ever befor. I'm not declaring the game dead eighter, but i honestly fear for it. This is one of the issues with the price reduction / docking rights changes, as they cant rightfully undothem without causing even more drama, so what will they be left with? Nerfing the supercarriers back to where they are right now on sisi.. useless bricks of e-peen.
"EVE Online: Shenanigans"
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Drachenlord
Amarr Pilipino Corp Primary.
|
Posted - 2009.11.16 23:27:00 -
[1469]
There's a Lot of QQing and *****ing and whinging in this thread... Mostly from people who bought Motherships after the initial devblog went out.
Now, the thing is, As Angelus said... there was warning that a cost reduction was going to be coming around for these things, and those that recently bought These ships are the ones that are screaming the loudest against the cost reduction. Even if CCP says now that they plan to reimburse you in some way...
Which, is an interesting precedent is it not? where else in the world is your money returned if you lose your ass on a bad high risk investment?
Face Facts... 600 (or even 1500 to be generous) or so of the 300k subscribers in this game have a supercarrier... that's a drop in the bucket... CCP will do whats best for the game as a whole and not for the Vocal 1% (less in this case)
HOWEVER... there is one HUGE problem.. Don't let these things dock... in ANY station EVER... Docking games with normal carriers is bad enough...
So... My Opinion on how Supercarriers should be changed (its a compromise!)
1 - NO Docking - Allow us to Password Lock Hangar Arrays so nobody can get at the ships while stored, but the pilots. 2 - Keep the Build Cost Reduction As planned - I leave it to CCP to decide whether or not a reimbursement is really a good idea to appease .5% of the subscriber base. (flame away, I don't care) 3 - 2 Fighters/Fighter Bombers per level, You wanted 1, we Want 3... so its a fair compromise... oh, Stop Balancing around DCUs as well.. please 4 - Revert the Explosion Radius of the Compact Torps back to the initial stats, and give the Bombers a little more HP. 5 - Keep the Current plan to increase Jump Range to Dreadnought Level..
I think with this solution, people would be able to live with the Supercarrier class.
Also... side note for Titans... revert the Capital Weapon bonuses back to 200% vs 100% Ninja nerfing that was pretty bad... Titans need to be able to project some decent damage more than once every 5 damn minutes. ----- While the Enemies of the Empire still draw breath there can be no peace |
xplosiv
|
Posted - 2009.11.16 23:29:00 -
[1470]
Originally by: Drachenlord There's a Lot of QQing and *****ing and whinging in this thread... Mostly from people who bought Motherships after the initial devblog went out.
Now, the thing is, As Angelus said... there was warning that a cost reduction was going to be coming around for these things, and those that recently bought These ships are the ones that are screaming the loudest against the cost reduction. Even if CCP says now that they plan to reimburse you in some way...
Which, is an interesting precedent is it not? where else in the world is your money returned if you lose your ass on a bad high risk investment?
Face Facts... 600 (or even 1500 to be generous) or so of the 300k subscribers in this game have a supercarrier... that's a drop in the bucket... CCP will do whats best for the game as a whole and not for the Vocal 1% (less in this case)
HOWEVER... there is one HUGE problem.. Don't let these things dock... in ANY station EVER... Docking games with normal carriers is bad enough...
So... My Opinion on how Supercarriers should be changed (its a compromise!)
1 - NO Docking - Allow us to Password Lock Hangar Arrays so nobody can get at the ships while stored, but the pilots. 2 - Keep the Build Cost Reduction As planned - I leave it to CCP to decide whether or not a reimbursement is really a good idea to appease .5% of the subscriber base. (flame away, I don't care) 3 - 2 Fighters/Fighter Bombers per level, You wanted 1, we Want 3... so its a fair compromise... oh, Stop Balancing around DCUs as well.. please 4 - Revert the Explosion Radius of the Compact Torps back to the initial stats, and give the Bombers a little more HP. 5 - Keep the Current plan to increase Jump Range to Dreadnought Level..
I think with this solution, people would be able to live with the Supercarrier class.
Also... side note for Titans... revert the Capital Weapon bonuses back to 200% vs 100% Ninja nerfing that was pretty bad... Titans need to be able to project some decent damage more than once every 5 damn minutes.
CCP have gone to far. This far NO Further. Build cost stays the same aswell.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.16 23:38:00 -
[1471]
Originally by: Drachenlord There's a Lot of QQing and *****ing and whinging in this thread... Mostly from people who bought Motherships after the initial devblog went out.
Now, the thing is, As Angelus said... there was warning that a cost reduction was going to be coming around for these things, and those that recently bought These ships are the ones that are screaming the loudest against the cost reduction. Even if CCP says now that they plan to reimburse you in some way...
Which, is an interesting precedent is it not? where else in the world is your money returned if you lose your ass on a bad high risk investment?
Face Facts... 600 (or even 1500 to be generous) or so of the 300k subscribers in this game have a supercarrier... that's a drop in the bucket... CCP will do whats best for the game as a whole and not for the Vocal 1% (less in this case)
HOWEVER... there is one HUGE problem.. Don't let these things dock... in ANY station EVER... Docking games with normal carriers is bad enough...
So... My Opinion on how Supercarriers should be changed (its a compromise!)
1 - NO Docking - Allow us to Password Lock Hangar Arrays so nobody can get at the ships while stored, but the pilots. 2 - Keep the Build Cost Reduction As planned - I leave it to CCP to decide whether or not a reimbursement is really a good idea to appease .5% of the subscriber base. (flame away, I don't care) 3 - 2 Fighters/Fighter Bombers per level, You wanted 1, we Want 3... so its a fair compromise... oh, Stop Balancing around DCUs as well.. please 4 - Revert the Explosion Radius of the Compact Torps back to the initial stats, and give the Bombers a little more HP. 5 - Keep the Current plan to increase Jump Range to Dreadnought Level..
I think with this solution, people would be able to live with the Supercarrier class.
Also... side note for Titans... revert the Capital Weapon bonuses back to 200% vs 100% Ninja nerfing that was pretty bad... Titans need to be able to project some decent damage more than once every 5 damn minutes.
I could basically live with this. Jumprange needs to be kept at 5 ly imo though.
And I wouldn't mind a reimbursement, i could do some evil things with the ISK.
Titans are awfully bad in their current incarnation.
And please fix the performanceissues I (and others) are having on Sisi lately. The planets show properly since the latest patch but 5 fps isn't funny when you were able to run a dual-client without any problems prior to the patch.
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Drachenlord
Amarr Pilipino Corp Primary.
|
Posted - 2009.11.16 23:39:00 -
[1472]
Seriously... the Cost Reduction is fine...
It ONLY effects the people who have bought them recently... or just want to hop on that bandwagon to get some money back...
In the real world, as I said, you don't get your money back if an investment fails.. simple... Giving them their money back, fine I can deal with that...
But anyone that claims that this hurts the people who produce these ships for sale is trying to obfuscate the fact that demand will very likely increase and potentially netting them more profit.
Hopefully CCP will remember to reduce the build time to compensate. ----- While the Enemies of the Empire still draw breath there can be no peace |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.16 23:48:00 -
[1473]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 16/11/2009 23:51:13
Originally by: Fogy
Allright, from what i understand.. NGE was some patch, expansion or whatnot, that ruined SWG. or something.
The "NGE," so called, was more than some patch. Lucas Arts mandated fundamental changes to SWG if SOE wanted to hang onto the Star Wars license (not sure why SOE always carries the sole blame for this). These changes were supposed line up with the release of Episode 3 on DVD (I think it was Episode 3).
What the NGE changed was the entire game from crafting to combat. Lets just put it like this, before the NGE SWG was a normalish MMO with an expansive crafting system. After the NGE the crafting system was gutted and combat had gone from normal MMO combat to a twitched based system.
They completely changed the entire game for EVERYONE who played it.
Quote: The comparison people are pulling from this is how the mom change (reduced cost, increased EHP and docking ability) with the Dominion sov combat change; having to reinforce outposts/conquerable stations.. Twice mind you. will be the game breaker.
People would have a better argument if that were the one they were making. Mostly its just that supercarrier changes are going to ruin the game--they don't discuss sov at all.
However, even in this case I completely disagree with the analogy to the NGE. Truth be told changes to 0.0, and Sov specifically, affect a relatively small portion of eve's player base. Those of us who pirate in low-sec, or live in empire, will not be affected really at all. And there are a LOT more of us than there are 0.0 dwellers.
Quote: buttloads of easily aquirable motherships camping their stations while the invaders are trying to take over their system.
Number one, you are going to see them spam anyway amongst 0.0 alliances. The changes, in my mind, at least allow those not in mega-alliances to realistically work for these even then though there is still the production bottleneck (has to be done at a POS in a system with Sov, build time, etc). This should keep the spam in check--a little.
The WORST thing that happens is Chribba is out of a job when these can be bought and sold in stations. :P
Quote: Titans, yes they are ment to be tools of war for 0.0 alliances. In my opinion so are motherships ment to be
Right, but CCP is saying they want to redefine their role as an anti-cap ship platform. Forgive me if I say as someone not in an 0.0 alliances, we need anti-cap ship platforms in low-sec too.
Quote: Most of the players i know that own motherships has taken the time and put in the effort to grind up the isk or minnerals for them by them self (me included) I can think of 3 that are owned by the corporation the pilotes are in. but even thous ships has been financed through mining, production/sale. EVE is a M-Multiplayer-ORPG afterall.
No argument. I'll just say that the projected price tag of 9 to 10 billion (about the cost of 40 million sp character) is going to still price a lot of "individuals" out. This will still be a multiplayer project to acquire for most people--at least in my mind.
Quote: As for what End Game is in EVE, IMO 0.0 is. Thats where the REAL sandbox of this game is.
I agree and disagree. 0.0 is part of the sandbox. Its not the "real" sandbox though. And plenty of people, myself included, don't like it. We'd rather stick in small gangs and pirate low-sec. Some people even want to build high-sec empires, and ninja-salvage collectives. Who are we to tell them that their sandbox isn't the real one, or that their idea of endgame is lame?
Oh, and by the way, THANK YOU for the rational non-flaming post. I appreciate it. My sig don't fracking work. |
Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.16 23:53:00 -
[1474]
Edited by: Quesa on 16/11/2009 23:55:26 Edited by: Quesa on 16/11/2009 23:54:12
Originally by: Jenessa Edited by: Jenessa on 16/11/2009 23:13:46 People keep talking about a proliferation of SC's if these changes go through.
Where have CCP said that SC's will be buildable in stations?? Did I miss it?
When you factor into it the 23 day build time, the fact a capital ship assembly array is needed to build each and every one I really doubt SC's would be anything like a common sight.
You mean like how Titans didn't proliferate? Sure, maybe not at the rate that JF's or carriers did but they still will. Just because it's a 3 week building time and being required to build in a POS doesn't mean they won't proliferate. Don't be so narrow minded about this.
CCP thought for sure there would only be 3-4 Titans in the game when they introduced them. They never thought a single Alliance would own over 10.
Just the decrease in build cost will increase the number of them out there but I suggest that the only REAL factor keeping people out of Moms was the requirement to either stay in it 24/7 or train up a holding alt (which is utter rubbish on CCP's part). The mere fact that you will be able to dock them will be the largest factor on the increase of these hulls, factor that in with dropping the build cost to 5bil, you'll see these things all over in a years time.
Originally by: Jenessa And this rubbish about docking games, you mean like carriers do now? I mean whats the difference between the two when it comes to that kinda stuff? Or are people just moaning about how frustrating they might feel to fire on a SC on a station and then see it dock like dreads/carriers do now. Oh no how awful!!
Except you could hotdrop a carrier with 10-15 dreads and kill it, never happen with an SC.
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Draconus Lofwyr
Gallente M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:04:00 -
[1475]
Originally by: Drachenlord
3 - 2 Fighters/Fighter Bombers per level, You wanted 1, we Want 3... so its a fair compromise... oh, Stop Balancing around DCUs as well.. please
If they insist on Balancing around DCU's, make them viable, Make them so you only need to fit one, and instead of the skill allowing additional fittings per lvl, allow one additional fighter per lvl so at lvl 5 you only need one module to get 5 fighters, with the drawback of an increase of some fitting requirement per lvl. I have yet to see a carrier fit that used DCU's that were not pos sitting. This could be a SC only module instead of the fitting increase.
DL The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out![/center] |
R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:04:00 -
[1476]
Originally by: Drachenlord Seriously... the Cost Reduction is fine...
What is so good about cost reduction? Why should the ship be available for everyone?
Bassicaly a lot of the unneeded changes and nerfs and rebalances have happened just because the ship has become available to every hisec mission grinder with little effort..
The whole point is that this ship class should be cost-uneffective twice/tripple the price it is now so when you loose one you feel the pain rather than undock the next spare.. but it still should makes sense to use one in combat which was nicely done/possible with the innitial changes by Abathur.
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:05:00 -
[1477]
About docking games:
They're a problem when it comes to anything, particularly when RR is involved (a timer increase for capitals and supercapitals specifically + RR giving real aggro would easily solve that anyway - which should have been done long ago really).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:10:00 -
[1478]
Originally by: Jenessa
And this rubbish about docking games, you mean like carriers do now? I mean whats the difference between the two when it comes to that kinda stuff? Or are people just moaning about how frustrating they might feel to fire on a SC on a station and then see it dock like dreads/carriers do now. Oh no how awful!!
The difference should not be that hard to figure out if you look at the HP values.
While ganking a regular carrier / dread is not an easy task by any means, there are quite a few entities that can rally the needed 15 dreads to ensure a kill before they can deagress. Nothing every 100-member corp in the game can pull off easily, but quite a few can.
15 players plus cyno bait to handle a single player, not exactly well-scaled but whatever, its still in the realm of the regular blobbing.
Now being able to rally 100+ dreads to ensure the kill on a supercarrier, that is completely out of the question for medium-sized entities that dont own isk-printing moons.
100 players plus cyno bait to handle a single player, roughly 250bill in assets on the line, given the actual damage you can inflict that is completely and utterly out of whack.
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Jenessa
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:36:00 -
[1479]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Jenessa
And this rubbish about docking games, you mean like carriers do now? I mean whats the difference between the two when it comes to that kinda stuff? Or are people just moaning about how frustrating they might feel to fire on a SC on a station and then see it dock like dreads/carriers do now. Oh no how awful!!
The difference should not be that hard to figure out if you look at the HP values.
While ganking a regular carrier / dread is not an easy task by any means, there are quite a few entities that can rally the needed 15 dreads to ensure a kill before they can deagress. Nothing every 100-member corp in the game can pull off easily, but quite a few can.
15 players plus cyno bait to handle a single player, not exactly well-scaled but whatever, its still in the realm of the regular blobbing.
Now being able to rally 100+ dreads to ensure the kill on a supercarrier, that is completely out of the question for medium-sized entities that dont own isk-printing moons.
100 players plus cyno bait to handle a single player, roughly 250bill in assets on the line, given the actual damage you can inflict that is completely and utterly out of whack.
But common sense would dictate to people surely that going for a SC on a station is a waste of time and not to bother. You're not gonna kill it on a station, end of story so don't even try.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:39:00 -
[1480]
Originally by: Jenessa
But common sense would dictate to people surely that going for a SC on a station is a waste of time and not to bother. You're not gonna kill it on a station, end of story so don't even try.
Exactly, thats the issue there. Makes sense to go try to gank a carrier that way and many can do it, but not a SC, even if you are part of the very few that could.
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Jenessa
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.17 02:01:00 -
[1481]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Jenessa
But common sense would dictate to people surely that going for a SC on a station is a waste of time and not to bother. You're not gonna kill it on a station, end of story so don't even try.
Exactly, thats the issue there. Makes sense to go try to gank a carrier that way and many can do it, but not a SC, even if you are part of the very few that could.
I still don't think the arguement that the only reason to prevent docking of SC's in future is that fact that they'd be very difficult to kill on a station makes any sense at all.
Infact letting SC's dock makes some scenario's more likely to happen that WOULD result in the death of the ships, for example only tonight we killed a carrier that tried to dock at a station but got pulled out short due to a bubble being placed away from the station.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.17 02:28:00 -
[1482]
Originally by: Jenessa
Infact letting SC's dock makes some scenario's more likely to happen that WOULD result in the death of the ships, for example only tonight we killed a carrier that tried to dock at a station but got pulled out short due to a bubble being placed away from the station.
Well, the thing is in lowsec you cant have bubbles, there is no way to prevent them from reaching the docking point.
Having stations as a new point-of-interest for motherships might work in 0.0, but in lowsec it wont, and lowsec is where I see the issue becoming most problematic.
Apart from the changes in sov mechanics (you have to attack stations to grab sov now?), but I havent really looked into those as they do not concern me.
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Ai Mei
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Posted - 2009.11.17 03:52:00 -
[1483]
Im guessing cpp is doing this nerf more to make money, you heard me make money! From a business standpoint they make more money off new subscriptions than veteran players, if you can advertise that all these nerfs are to make sure new players can get into big bad cool ships fast, then they can keep their new player base more and attract more customers saying, look at the cool stuff you can get in 6 months rather than their veteran player base.
Veterans make EvE ccp not the noobs. Vets, run the alliances, vets run 0.0
The noobs are meat shields.
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.17 04:42:00 -
[1484]
Originally by: Ai Mei nerf
Motherships/Supercarriers are getting massive buffs compared to what's live at the moment. Please explain how gaining ~4-5x more EHP, 2-3x more DPS against capitals, and easier access for the cost of 5 drones (for a role the ship wasn't intended, swatting small ships unsupported) is a nerf.
And being able to dock would no longer require garage alts, which is a beyond massive change in favor of the player. Perhaps not for the game, but definitely a buff.
Guess what, the TEST version that was on the TEST server was changed. Instead of a ridiculously massively huge buff, you're just getting a ridiculously massive buff.
There have been NO NERFS AT ALL. ALL BUFFS.
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Ai Mei
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Posted - 2009.11.17 05:16:00 -
[1485]
Originally by: The Internets
Motherships/Supercarriers are getting massive buffs compared to what's live at the moment. Please explain how gaining ~4-5x more EHP, 2-3x more DPS against capitals, and easier access for the cost of 5 drones (for a role the ship wasn't intended, swatting small ships unsupported) is a nerf.
Dreads are going to be the new flavor of eve, no one will waste the time or isk to build titans or motherships.
Quote:
And being able to dock would no longer require garage alts, which is a beyond massive change in favor of the player. Perhaps not for the game, but definitely a buff.
Asumming that caod is right and there is ~255 titans in game with about 500 mother ships, this would be around 755 people that could have garage alts. so 750 times 15.00 about 11325 dollars per month in lost accts for not needign a garage alt. i would guess more of about 22,000 if you include cyno alt accts.
Quote:
Guess what, the TEST version that was on the TEST server was changed. Instead of a ridiculously massively huge buff, you're just getting a ridiculously massive buff.
There have been NO NERFS AT ALL. ALL BUFFS.
2 drones per level and bombers that do crap for damage. yeah really buff there. Obviously you dont fly a capital.
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.17 05:25:00 -
[1486]
Originally by: The Internets
Motherships/Supercarriers are getting massive buffs compared to what's live at the moment. Please explain how gaining ~4-5x more EHP, 2-3x more DPS against capitals, and easier access for the cost of 5 drones (for a role the ship wasn't intended, swatting small ships unsupported) is a nerf.
And being able to dock would no longer require garage alts, which is a beyond massive change in favor of the player. Perhaps not for the game, but definitely a buff.
Guess what, the TEST version that was on the TEST server was changed. Instead of a ridiculously massively huge buff, you're just getting a ridiculously massive buff.
There have been NO NERFS AT ALL. ALL BUFFS.
Is what you say correct? Yes, the stats of the ship are improved. That does not mean that they designed the changes well or fixed the ship class. These ships are billed as supercapitals and we were promised they'd be fixed. Instead the ships in their original state have been gutted and replaced by a carrier with 15 million ehp and the damage of a dread (thanks to the explosion radius on the compact citadels).
I view that as a nerf, it's not the supercapital class that we mom pilots have come to love and hoped to fly on the battlefield.
I don't understand these changes, and don't agree with them. If the DPS was too much, they should have just lowered the damage on the fighter bombers instead of going to all this other trouble and throwing everyone up in arms over everything else. Forget docking and halving their build cost and nerfing the number of fighters. Just revert the changes and keep the bomber damage as what they are now.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.17 05:28:00 -
[1487]
Originally by: R0ze
Originally by: Drachenlord Seriously... the Cost Reduction is fine...
What is so good about cost reduction? Why should the ship be available for everyone?
And why should they only be available to some small portion of the eve player base? Why should it be the case that I'll now have to worry about big 0.0 alliances hot dropping these on low-sec combats?
Quote: Bassicaly a lot of the unneeded changes and nerfs and rebalances have happened just because the ship has become available to every hisec mission grinder with little effort..
No, your right. Instead they should just be available to alliances that can AFK isk on moons. Because afking isk from a few moons is SOOO much more like working for one than "high-sec mission grinders."
Quote: The whole point is that this ship class should be cost-uneffective twice/tripple the price it is now so when you loose one you feel the pain rather than undock the next spare.. but it still should makes sense to use one in combat which was nicely done/possible with the innitial changes by Abathur.
Wait, triple the cost? Wouldn't that put them in Titan range?
My sig don't fracking work. |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.17 05:35:00 -
[1488]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Jenessa
Well, the thing is in lowsec you cant have bubbles, there is no way to prevent them from reaching the docking point.
So instead of making them dockable and affordable, now I'll have to worry about entities like Invicta (you know I love you guys) hot dropping 10 of these on us anyway.
And its not like there are other ships that are already difficult to kill on stations in low-sec? Forget carriers, ****, its hard to kill BATTLESHIPS in properly fit RR gangs.
Quote: Having stations as a new point-of-interest for motherships might work in 0.0, but in lowsec it wont, and lowsec is where I see the issue becoming most problematic.
Its going to be problematic whichever way you slice it. Making it more affordable allows smaller corps and alliances that live in low-sec to at least be able to field some of these themselves.
My sig don't fracking work. |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.17 05:49:00 -
[1489]
There are so many greedy little selfish players posting in this thread, it really turns my stomach. And I start to fear that the devs will listen to them, although they clearly haven't got balance in mind. They just want their own cheap EW immune station hugging 'supercapital' to play with.
It's exactly what all the rich but risk-averse players out there want. Or am I wrong? Affordable, almost unkillable without major effort, and not even a certain level of commitment required anymore. No real consequences either. It will be the ultimate 0.0 and lowsec carebear-mobile.
No, I don't have a mothership/supercarrier. Yes I could afford one. No, I still think it's badly thought-out change, which is about as far-sighted as the initial titan concept.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
zixori
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Posted - 2009.11.17 05:56:00 -
[1490]
something else needs to be added w/ this.
rorquals need to be able to use tractor beams on ships. like in the movie mortal combat when scorpion throws that dagger rope thing and goes GET OVER HERE! that type of deal.
battle rorquals pulling people around the battlefield would balance all of this. please implement it.
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Drachenlord
Amarr Pilipino Corp Primary.
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Posted - 2009.11.17 07:31:00 -
[1491]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek There are so many greedy little selfish players posting in this thread, it really turns my stomach. And I start to fear that the devs will listen to them, although they clearly haven't got balance in mind. They just want their own cheap EW immune station hugging 'supercapital' to play with.
It's exactly what all the rich but risk-averse players out there want. Or am I wrong? Affordable, almost unkillable without major effort, and not even a certain level of commitment required anymore. No real consequences either. It will be the ultimate 0.0 and lowsec carebear-mobile.
No, I don't have a mothership/supercarrier. Yes I could afford one. No, I still think it's badly thought-out change, which is about as far-sighted as the initial titan concept.
Actually, the greedy little selfish players comment could be directed at the "bitter vets" that own the bloody things and don't want anything to change about them...
However, I for one hope to god CCP does NOT allow these things to dock, EVER... A Supercapital is an investment, and a risky one... being able to hide it in a station and play docking games does not entail that risk.
As for them being reserved only for the wealthy or whatever you want to call it... Come on... 99% of the people saying they need to stay at their current price obviously have one and are up in arms over simple and selfish reasons...
Things change, suck it up and deal with it... you made an investment with that Mothership... (especially if you bought one just recently) and the investment is turning sour.... However this time, CCP is offering you some sort of recompense... Constructive posting will get more done than flaming, screaming, kicking and holding your breath like a 5 year old.
The Average Age of Eve players is rather high for you all to be acting like a bunch of goddamn grade school dropouts. ----- While the Enemies of the Empire still draw breath there can be no peace |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.17 08:25:00 -
[1492]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek There are so many greedy little selfish players posting in this thread, it really turns my stomach. And I start to fear that the devs will listen to them, although they clearly haven't got balance in mind. They just want their own cheap EW immune station hugging 'supercapital' to play with.
It's exactly what all the rich but risk-averse players out there want. Or am I wrong? Affordable, almost unkillable without major effort, and not even a certain level of commitment required anymore. No real consequences either. It will be the ultimate 0.0 and lowsec carebear-mobile.
No, I don't have a mothership/supercarrier. Yes I could afford one. No, I still think it's badly thought-out change, which is about as far-sighted as the initial titan concept.
I actually agree with you somewhat. They are almost unkillable and to some extent game breaking. THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THE GAME PERIOD.
But since they are in the game, and they're being turned into an anti-capital platform that IS going to get used in low-sec as well as 0.0, we might as well lower the barrier to entry so its not just the SUPER rich and/or their alliance overlords that can afford them.
But, lets not get confused here. I think for some of the people who can afford one of these (myself included at times), we lose sight of what a lot of isk is. A 10 billion isk price tag is a SERIOUS barrier to entry still. That's probably 15x the isk that your regular player has had in their wallet when it was at its fattest.
It seems that some people think that a 10 billion isk price tag is like giving away these ships for free. My sig don't fracking work. |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.17 08:33:00 -
[1493]
Originally by: Drachenlord
Actually, the greedy little selfish players comment could be directed at the "bitter vets" that own the bloody things and don't want anything to change about them...
However, I for one hope to god CCP does NOT allow these things to dock, EVER... A Supercapital is an investment, and a risky one... being able to hide it in a station and play docking games does not entail that risk.
As for them being reserved only for the wealthy or whatever you want to call it... Come on... 99% of the people saying they need to stay at their current price obviously have one and are up in arms over simple and selfish reasons...
Things change, suck it up and deal with it... you made an investment with that Mothership... (especially if you bought one just recently) and the investment is turning sour.... However this time, CCP is offering you some sort of recompense... Constructive posting will get more done than flaming, screaming, kicking and holding your breath like a 5 year old.
The Average Age of Eve players is rather high for you all to be acting like a bunch of goddamn grade school dropouts.
I actually think you should let them dock, or offer players a more secure way to store them. Having to have a character who is always in a specific ship is stupid, and hurts the players.
But my real reason for quoting you here is to say, a-f**king-men.
Finally someone who gets it. My sig don't fracking work. |
Master Arrow
Trinity Capital Endeavors Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.17 08:50:00 -
[1494]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Tarron Sarek There are so many greedy little selfish players posting in this thread, it really turns my stomach. And I start to fear that the devs will listen to them, although they clearly haven't got balance in mind. They just want their own cheap EW immune station hugging 'supercapital' to play with.
It's exactly what all the rich but risk-averse players out there want. Or am I wrong? Affordable, almost unkillable without major effort, and not even a certain level of commitment required anymore. No real consequences either. It will be the ultimate 0.0 and lowsec carebear-mobile.
No, I don't have a mothership/supercarrier. Yes I could afford one. No, I still think it's badly thought-out change, which is about as far-sighted as the initial titan concept.
I actually agree with you somewhat. They are almost unkillable and to some extent game breaking. THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THE GAME PERIOD.
But since they are in the game, and they're being turned into an anti-capital platform that IS going to get used in low-sec as well as 0.0, we might as well lower the barrier to entry so its not just the SUPER rich and/or their alliance overlords that can afford them.
But, lets not get confused here. I think for some of the people who can afford one of these (myself included at times), we lose sight of what a lot of isk is. A 10 billion isk price tag is a SERIOUS barrier to entry still. That's probably 15x the isk that your regular player has had in their wallet when it was at its fattest.
It seems that some people think that a 10 billion isk price tag is like giving away these ships for free.
Karlemgne, for someone crying about other people's complaining, you make our point that much more for us, if the cost drops to 5-6b you dont have to worry about people camping stations, they will just camp the low sec/empire entrance system gate with 10 of them remote repping each other....I think your whole problem is you are worried someone is gonna move into your little neck of the woods and steal your low sec pirating system with them. Dont be so emo about what other people feel is best for a ship they worked hard to get into. For your information it isnt the big time CEO's or corp owned ship you make it out to be. It's people who invest a lot of time and isk into getting them built for their own use on the battlefield, and to many of those pilots they have had them collecting dust because they were too easily killed and everyone saw them as big fat juicy targets to pad the killboards stats with. If you invested up to 20b isk like some people did and have a character you specialized specifically for this ship to only have it become "just another carrier with crappy fighterbombers" then you too would be complaining. I bet you were one of the people who whined like a little girl when they did the nano-nerf. Is that what your problem is? CCP took away your invincible nano ship and made you cry so you want to see every aspect of the game broken for others? |
MAX MEXX
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Posted - 2009.11.17 08:55:00 -
[1495]
Lol it's amsing to see how devs have removed over 3 pages of replys from this thread:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1212602 |
King Dave
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Posted - 2009.11.17 09:00:00 -
[1496]
Originally by: Drachenlord
Actually, the greedy little selfish players comment could be directed at the "bitter vets" that own the bloody things and don't want anything to change about them...
We do want stuff to change about them, just not stuff like letting them dock and 10 fighters.
Quote:
As for them being reserved only for the wealthy or whatever you want to call it... Come on... 99% of the people saying they need to stay at their current price obviously have one and are up in arms over simple and selfish reasons...
Too some people 16 billion is nothing, but for others it is a hell of alot of work. I for biult up assets to sell over a year or two to afford mine. I'm not being selfish, i would just be extremely jealous if people could put in half the effort to get something I budgeted for ages to get.
Quote:
Things change, suck it up and deal with it... you made an investment with that Mothership... (especially if you bought one just recently) and the investment is turning sour.... However this time, CCP is offering you some sort of recompense... Constructive posting will get more done than flaming, screaming, kicking and holding your breath like a 5 year old.
How can you constructivlely post when CCP gives you such aweful content to talk about? We have tried explaining to them why these are stupid ideas and how much they are screwing us over. They didn't listen to that - so i'm all for flaming, screaming, kicking and holding my breath like a 5 year old.
Quote:
The Average Age of Eve players is rather high for you all to be acting like a bunch of goddamn grade school dropouts.
No-one used to whine like this because CCP never used to do stuff like this. Go figure.
I am a MAD sad panda. |
Tianosh Kakkichi
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Posted - 2009.11.17 10:14:00 -
[1497]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 12:24:07
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 14/11/2009 11:58:19 How about: - Keep the EHP buff - Let it launch 20 drones (needs that for self protection against smaller ships) - Limit the bandwith so it can only launch 15 FBs (still 20 fighters) (still does enough damage?) - Keep the price and buildtime as it is so they dont proliferate like mad - If you must let them dock that can only happen with a 1 hour redock timer or something
and
- Perhaps make a 2nd "supercarrier" that can use fighterbombers, doesnt have ew immunity, cant use clone vat bay and so on. Gives the newer players something inbetween reg caps and supercaps to look forward to.
Current mom owners doesnt want to see their ship reduced to another carrier class and ppl that doesnt have a ms wants a better ship than what the carrier class today offers. Its good to have goals to strive for, its what keeps ppl playing. Reducing a mom to a "cheap" and accessible ship removes a dream from the game. The step up to a Titan is way to wide for a "regular" player. Thus the mom with its current pricerange and with some buffed abilities ends up as the perfect endgame for regular players. We need our dreams.
Addendum: Like others have suggested previously. What youre looking into is a T2 carrier, just set skill reqs to lvl 5 carrier and whatever else to lvl 5 as prereqs, change the paintjob, up the HP to somewhere between carrier and ms like one third of MS. Stats can be tweaked as long as their "purpose" is decided before release (Work in Progress). The community seams to have defined their role together with you in this thread.
Whatever thoughts u had about a "future mothership", dont we already have a supercapital that kinda lacks purpose (at least with current sisi stats)? Can't ur grand thoughts for future features be incorporated in the two ships we now have?
Tweak what we already have, add new content to fill gaps. Don't change what we have and then later put something else in its place...
/signed
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.17 10:16:00 -
[1498]
Originally by: Karlemgne And why should they only be available to some small portion of the eve player base? Why should it be the case that I'll now have to worry about big 0.0 alliances hot dropping these on low-sec combats?
So there is an effort to get not just complete few L4 and wolla you got a pwnmobile.. And if you are using it for lowsec hotdrops sooner or later you will loose it.. believe me.
Quote: No, your right. Instead they should just be available to alliances that can AFK isk on moons. Because afking isk from a few moons is SOOO much more like working for one than "high-sec mission grinders."
To become an AFK moon miner you had to go through a lot of pain .. Or you think the moons are distributed by CCP for free? And whats the problem for you to become one?
Quote: Wait, triple the cost? Wouldn't that put them in Titan range?
No not really.. also by looking at what rate the titans have been spammed the price should have been increased like twofold for them to put even bigger burden on those who want to use it..
Otherways you could also reduce the price to BS level and let everyone to have bunch of MSes parked in stations.. why not?
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xplosiv
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Posted - 2009.11.17 11:05:00 -
[1499]
Originally by: R0ze
Originally by: Karlemgne And why should they only be available to some small portion of the eve player base? Why should it be the case that I'll now have to worry about big 0.0 alliances hot dropping these on low-sec combats?
So there is an effort to get not just complete few L4 and wolla you got a pwnmobile.. And if you are using it for lowsec hotdrops sooner or later you will loose it.. believe me.
Quote: No, your right. Instead they should just be available to alliances that can AFK isk on moons. Because afking isk from a few moons is SOOO much more like working for one than "high-sec mission grinders."
To become an AFK moon miner you had to go through a lot of pain .. Or you think the moons are distributed by CCP for free? And whats the problem for you to become one?
Quote: Wait, triple the cost? Wouldn't that put them in Titan range?
No not really.. also by looking at what rate the titans have been spammed the price should have been increased like twofold for them to put even bigger burden on those who want to use it..
Otherways you could also reduce the price to BS level and let everyone to have bunch of MSes parked in stations.. why not?
There's a idea. now titnas are so crap any way you could lower the price two 18bill and just give every 1 with a mothership 1 of them. As we are going for the billions of isk price drops and allowing players who would never of had one before ever a opertunity to own something they should not.
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San Ti
Gallente The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.17 11:32:00 -
[1500]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Cain m Actually it's Crowd Control Productions aka ****s Counting Profits
And what is CCP of not a capitalist entity? Did you think they were providing some free service for the benefit of mankind?
Most modern capitalist entities including CCP create at least the illusion that people's opinions are listened to and that you as a collective have some say in matters and can influence the course of events.
Don't forget it was CCP itself that has been pushing this idea (that our opinions count) through the CSM and game testing servers/forums etc. Yet at times they alienate the player base and people feel their opinions and previous work and are being trampled on and ignored. That's what's happening now as experienced players who have long term in-game time in these ships/building these ships etc. see that what they previously considered reasonable revisions which brought their prized assets back to the table in terms of usability (while retaining their status as true supercaps) become more and more radical and sudden changes very close to a major game 'upgrade'.
People are expressing serious concerns and would like their informed opinions listened to. They surely have a good base upon which to make a comment because they actually play the game a real lot and have had to work and plan in order to a achieve a serious in game goal like sitting in a mothership.
CCP are radically changing soo much of their 'sandbox' soo close to 01 DEC 2009... what they really need to do is have that slick promo of the sandbox idea go for about 1 minute then have a Monty Python style foot come out of the sky and squash that little frig and the mining barge with a fart sound effect.
CCP create a framework but it's the players that make this game great. CCP need to work together more openly with us if they want to have this idea that our decisions count. If they don't then fine but spare us the illusions please.
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.17 12:10:00 -
[1501]
Still no reason, responce or update................... Or apology and admitance of mistake then.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
K'racker
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.17 12:22:00 -
[1502]
Originally by: Tobruk This whole thing is so absurd. EVERYHTING WAS FINE BEFORE YOU MADE THESE CHANGES NOZAH
Don't lower cost and gimp the dps hoping that they will become more widespread. If they are good ships they will become more widespread.
Don't let them dock so that more people will buy them. If they were as originally tested on SiSi then people will use them regardless.
Don't gimp the number of drones to reduce lag. Fix the graphics and coding to enable more bombers.
I get what you are going for but all that would have been, simply by leaving things as they were. If you insist on continuing then you owe current MS owners that 5-6 Bil in reduced build cost directly to their wallets, no questions asked. you screwed them big time with your announcement and with these changes.
this announcement?
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 17/09/2009 09:39:49
Please use this thread to discuss all things Supercarrier related. Bear in mind that the numbers on the test server are subject to (and probably will) change more than once in the coming weeks.
lowering cost will make them more widespread. letting them dock is a result of years of owners asking for this, not to lure potential pilots. the # of drones being reduced to cut lag is the same solution they took to reduce regular drone lag.
as for 'reimbursement'? you bought an item based on test server changes, and you feel you're owed something if the price goes down? ccp have never reimbursed the tens of thousands of players who've lost, and continue to lose, billions, due to game changes. those who ran out and spent their 'hard-earned' GTC's on what they thought was new fotm should have known better.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.17 12:39:00 -
[1503]
Originally by: Drachenlord
Originally by: Tarron Sarek stuff
Actually, the greedy little selfish players comment could be directed at the "bitter vets" that own the bloody things and don't want anything to change about them...
No, due to the 'greedy', it's solely directed at those who don't have one but want one.
Originally by: Drachenlord However, I for one hope to god CCP does NOT allow these things to dock, EVER... A Supercapital is an investment, and a risky one... being able to hide it in a station and play docking games does not entail that risk.
It's good to see that we at least agree regarding this point
Originally by: Drachenlord As for them being reserved only for the wealthy or whatever you want to call it... Come on... 99% of the people saying they need to stay at their current price obviously have one and are up in arms over simple and selfish reasons...
Let's face it, most players who can't afford 13 bil also can't afford 6 bil. Those players who can afford to spend 6 bil very likely also can affford 13 bil. And those who can only afford to spend 6 bil shouldn't buy a supercarrier, as you shouldn't fly what you can't afford to lose..
Originally by: Drachenlord Things change, suck it up and deal with it... you made an investment with that Mothership... (especially if you bought one just recently) and the investment is turning sour....
Is this a reply to my post? Because as I said I am not affected. I could afford a mothership now. I could afford two supercarriers then. I wouldn't even have to spend all my ISK, just half my wallet. I still oppose this change. Funny eh? No hidden agenda here.
Originally by: Drachenlord Constructive posting will get more done than flaming, screaming, kicking and holding your breath like a 5 year old.
The Average Age of Eve players is rather high for you all to be acting like a bunch of goddamn grade school dropouts.
Again, is this directed at me? I think I posted very level-headed.
I also think that most good counter-arguments have been presented in a neutral and reasonable manner, for example by the Mittani. Try to misrepresent the critics as 5 year olds all you want. Reality doesn't back it.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.11.17 12:46:00 -
[1504]
One thing that is bugging me about the new supercarriers, is that while CCP admits that their main role will be anti-capital DPS, one of them is actually doing his job 25% better than the rest. It wasn't such an issue when the dps was low, but now it may become a problem and thats why it can be hard to balance the entire class ships later.
Except carriers i don't know if there is another precedent in game, of ships that are the same class, has the same role, but one of them surpass the rest in doing his job by such a huge margin and without significant downsides. And I'm not talking about rifters here.
I am well aware about the gallente drone tradition, but there are moments when you cant stick so close to the original concept because you will risk the entire balance.
I don't know if after awhile everybody will fly around in a Nyx, but I'm pretty sure that when the dust settle it will be the dominant supercarrier out there.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.17 13:16:00 -
[1505]
Originally by: Sajeera I am well aware about the gallente drone tradition, but there are moments when you cant stick so close to the original concept because you will risk the entire balance.
I don't know if after awhile everybody will fly around in a Nyx, but I'm pretty sure that when the dust settle it will be the dominant supercarrier out there.
The trade off is mainly between the nyx and the aeon. Aeon has a ridiculous tank at carrier V. But Nyx is more effective as a damage dealer. The Wyvern has a resistance bonus but shields remain to be a difficult tank for fleet warfare and the Hel really needs a different bonus, having a fighter speed bonus isn't very effective and the shield tank makes it the weakest supercarrier in terms of both tank and damage.
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King Dave
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Posted - 2009.11.17 13:18:00 -
[1506]
Originally by: Sajeera One thing that is bugging me about the new supercarriers, is that while CCP admits that their main role will be anti-capital DPS, one of them is actually doing his job 25% better than the rest. It wasn't such an issue when the dps was low, but now it may become a problem and thats why it can be hard to balance the entire class ships later.
Except carriers i don't know if there is another precedent in game, of ships that are the same class, has the same role, but one of them surpass the rest in doing his job by such a huge margin and without significant downsides. And I'm not talking about rifters here.
I am well aware about the gallente drone tradition, but there are moments when you cant stick so close to the original concept because you will risk the entire balance.
I don't know if after awhile everybody will fly around in a Nyx, but I'm pretty sure that when the dust settle it will be the dominant supercarrier out there.
I thought the hel gets some kind of bonus to fighter bombers which at level 5 makes them do more damage than even a nyx. I forgot what it was but there were some graphs somewhere and the hel seemed to dominate. xx
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.17 13:39:00 -
[1507]
Step 1) Do lengthy balancing process with lots of player input Step 2) Arrive at changes that are cool, balanced, and well-liked Step 3) 2-3 weeks before the patch goes live, another dev changes everything without announcement, explanation, or reason, reversing some of the major points of the balancing process. Step 4) WTF?
Whether or not the most recent rendition of CCP Nozh's ideas for motherships is a good idea (spoilers: they aren't, docking+EWAR immunity+capital logistics is kinda ghey), the question remains - why were they changed away from CCP Abathur's proposal in the first place? ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.11.17 13:46:00 -
[1508]
Originally by: McFly
The trade off is mainly between the nyx and the aeon. Aeon has a ridiculous tank at carrier V. But Nyx is more effective as a damage dealer. The Wyvern has a resistance bonus but shields remain to be a difficult tank for fleet warfare and the Hel really needs a different bonus, having a fighter speed bonus isn't very effective and the shield tank makes it the weakest supercarrier in terms of both tank and damage.
See, the problem is this, in my experience with MMOs if there is some design flow, people tend to gear, equip (fit) TOWARD the flow, thus abusing it to the max. In this case a Nyx with full rack DCUs will be nearly twice better DPSer than his poor cousins that may not bother to use DCUs at all. And it kinda sucks to compensate low dps on a dps ship with slightly better tank.
Originally by: King Dave
I thought the hel gets some kind of bonus to fighter bombers which at level 5 makes them do more damage than even a nyx. I forgot what it was but there were some graphs somewhere and the hel seemed to dominate. xx
Well, this is a step in the right direction and even more, call me weird but i like the Hel
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.17 13:47:00 -
[1509]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 17/11/2009 13:47:38
Originally by: King Dave
I thought the hel gets some kind of bonus to fighter bombers which at level 5 makes them do more damage than even a nyx. I forgot what it was but there were some graphs somewhere and the hel seemed to dominate.
Because of the sig radius on dreads vs explosion radius on the torps. Hel gets a bonus to explosion radius or something. "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Sellyna
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Posted - 2009.11.17 14:22:00 -
[1510]
3 new pages of post gone, ccp is realy trying to censoring this thread.
It's great to live in a comunist world (CCP ftw)
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Lira Reib
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Posted - 2009.11.17 14:24:00 -
[1511]
This thread is pretty hilarious.
Hi guys, they're taking a status symbol ship that nobody uses and turning it into a tier 2 carrier, one which can and will be used by more than the one-third-of-one-half-of-one-percent of the player base with the means and desire to have a spare character sitting in pos shields 24/7 holding onto their e-peen. I'm having a pretty hard time seeing how this is bad for the game.
Also, motherships are f'ing awesome looking. I want capital fleets that look like the ones in the promo videos.
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.17 14:30:00 -
[1512]
No reply from CCP in days on this issue.
Would be nice to at least get some kind of confirmation that you are investiating why Abathur's changes were just suddenly thrown away without any explanation.
You should really listen to the playerbase on this one because CCP isn't **** without us.
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San Ti
Gallente The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.17 14:44:00 -
[1513]
Originally by: McFly ...The trade off is mainly between the nyx and the aeon...
there is no trade off cause now people can buy one of each
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.17 15:54:00 -
[1514]
the # of drones being reduced to cut lag is the same solution they took to reduce regular drone lag.
Because this really helped with lag last time. right guys? right? The Light in the Darkness
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.17 16:44:00 -
[1515]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Good morning, thread. I'd like to start off by saying a few things that you all should consider in your feedback.
Dominion is not being released tomorrow or next week; it's still 2-3 months from deployment. We have no intention of springing changes on the player base at the last minute. One of the reasons we are putting out so much information now is that we want to get this stuff onto the test server and allow you all to play with it and provide feedback.
We appreciate the scope of the changes we are implementing and are not just planning to just ignore your concerns. At this stage of development, there are still quite a few things we can alter in terms of balance. We want to include you in the process and the Dev team will be following these threads, and subsequent ones on the Test Server forum, very closely.
Please bear this in mind in your replies.
so no last minute changes, wait yes there was not ignoring our concerns, wait yes told dev blog about last minute change no reply from devs for days include us the players in the process, no one ccp dev changed it no reason as to why he did the changes but same dev was also one of the devs that wanted carrier and moms to have only 5 fighter and make you hand out the rest, yes i do think this dev should never go near capital ships again move him to only work with rookie ship and shuttle changes.
some of hte player base might say there is whining in this topic but we are the players that fly them and yes i infact want more people to fly them they look good both on the battle field and on the killboards.
don't drop the price by 40%, sure drop the price as your removing the clone vat bay, keep the 3 extra drones per level, yes i know the ship costs a lot but i know corps that have these ships and it was the work of the corp that got these ships all members worked to get them no moon goo used. this leads to team work and is also a good goal for corps to work towards.
ccp atlest give us the information on what and why you are doing it not this wall of deadly silentance. 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Relyen
Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.11.17 17:37:00 -
[1516]
What I don't understand, if they really wanted to limit the number of Fighter Bombers. Why didn't they do it through Drone Bandwidth. All of the carriers (as all ships) come with a static amount of bandwidth, regardless of their drone bay and number of drones they can use. And Drone Control Units (DCU's), don't affect drone bandwidth capacity at all.
So, if they really wanted to just limit Fighter Bombers, why dont't they increase the Bomber bandwidth requirements, so that a SuperCarrier can only launch a certain number of them, regardless of the max number of drones they can launch.
Seems like a simple and logical way of accomplishing that goal, without ruining the ability to launch 20-25 regular fighters. ________________________________
I am own. |
Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.17 17:55:00 -
[1517]
Originally by: Relyen What I don't understand, if they really wanted to limit the number of Fighter Bombers. Why didn't they do it through Drone Bandwidth. All of the carriers (as all ships) come with a static amount of bandwidth, regardless of their drone bay and number of drones they can use. And Drone Control Units (DCU's), don't affect drone bandwidth capacity at all.
So, if they really wanted to just limit Fighter Bombers, why dont't they increase the Bomber bandwidth requirements, so that a SuperCarrier can only launch a certain number of them, regardless of the max number of drones they can launch.
Seems like a simple and logical way of accomplishing that goal, without ruining the ability to launch 20-25 regular fighters.
Using logic would make it too simple...something CCP can't seem to grasp.
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Oljud Zork
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.17 18:19:00 -
[1518]
Well I cross post hers since you clearly discuss dps from the new xMom¦s. This is my post in the Super Carrier feedback tread.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180138&page=21#606
Against Capitals the Hel are the top damage dealer even if the Nyx has a damage bonus, it¦s because the Hel has a Explosion Radius bonus to the missiles fired by the Fighter Bombers.
Against Titans and Super Carriers are the winner the Nyx.
Regards
// Zork
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.17 19:12:00 -
[1519]
Originally by: Oljud Zork Well I cross post hers since you clearly discuss dps from the new xMom¦s. This is my post in the Super Carrier feedback tread.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180138&page=21#606
Against Capitals the Hel are the top damage dealer even if the Nyx has a damage bonus, it¦s because the Hel has a Explosion Radius bonus to the missiles fired by the Fighter Bombers.
Against Titans and Super Carriers are the winner the Nyx.
Regards
// Zork
Linkage
this is worth a read nice work on it 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
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Posted - 2009.11.17 19:55:00 -
[1520]
I must say that I am highly disappointed to be sitting here on Tuesday and still not seeing the promised devblog on why CCP Abathur's changes were scrapped. If enough time and thought went into this decision to legitimately support changing them, why is the devblog taking so long? Shouldn't all the issues we are bringing up have been hashed through in design meetings? We are not bringing up esoteric points or extrapolating a great deal - anyone that has played Eve for long should have brought up these issues. Why the silence? I will reiterate my earlier post about what the issues are:
First, why did you guys feel the need to change the supercap modifications introduced by Abathur and extensively tested to near universal approval? I have yet to see any kind of reason given for why these well thought-out, balanced, and well-recieved changes were axed in the first place. Please at least give us your logic on that before continuing to try to change the ships. It's possible that there was some underlying issue that everyone involved with testing Abathur's proposal missed, but I rather doubt it. If there is one, tell us.
Second, I applaud the fact that you are willing to look at the feedback and try to work out a compromise. I especially applaud the commitment to reimburse owners for the incredible loss they are taking - although you really need to include BPO owners too. However, the changes you propose do little to solve the real problems. For a dedicated anti-cap ship, we still have the fact that their primary weapons system doesn't hit caps for anywhere near full damage due to the ridiculous explosion radius. That's especially horrible given that sieged dreads, arguably the most important target for the supercarrier, are immune to target painters, the one remedy for targets with low signature radii. Futhermore, introducing docking while at the same time lowering the build costs so dramatically means that these will proliferate like mad, and at the same time makes the station-game issue you just nerfed the Moros to solve far, far worse with this ship!
The solution is fairly straightforward. Return the MS and Titans to the state proposed by Abathur and approved by the testers on Sisi. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. Add a new model for a true supercap that is a size that makes sense (1/2 the size of a titan or so). Next, add a new carrier class that is exactly what you propose above (2 fighters per level, dockable, 5-6 bil build cost, can use fighter-bombers) but take the EHP way down from what the supercarrier has and remove EW immunity. Use the current MS models for these ships.
If the changes you propose are left in place, I will be buying at least one supercarrier, and probably 2. That price point is such that I can afford a couple of them by selling some of my faction ships and items, selling my carriers (no need for them anymore), possibly selling my dreads, and combining that with what I have now. My corp could probably have 5-6 members in a supercarrier by the end of 2010 without too much trouble - and we are a SMALL corp. That will mean that we can run around with our very own little RR supercap blob that will be damn near impossible to kill without the dread resources of a major alliance. And if we can do it, so can LOTS of other little corps and all big corps. I fully expect to see these become nearly as common as dreads with the proposed changes.
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ChronoSphere
Sturmgrenadier Inc Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.17 21:47:00 -
[1521]
Is CCP using mokusatsu on this or something? You guys got 2 weeks till the scheduled patch day, lets hear something from you guys. Last I heard Iceland still exists. -------------- ~Vice Admiral, Executive Officer Sturmgrenadier, Inc. Join Sturmgrenadier today! |
Tdoldy
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Posted - 2009.11.17 22:20:00 -
[1522]
Just found a cool ilustration about what is happening:
http://i35.tinypic.com/15p66w1.jpg
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.17 22:47:00 -
[1523]
Originally by: Tdoldy Just found a cool ilustration about what is happening:
http://i35.tinypic.com/15p66w1.jpg
QFT
CCP HTFU and do the right thing please.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.11.18 00:46:00 -
[1524]
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: Tdoldy Just found a cool ilustration about what is happening:
http://i35.tinypic.com/15p66w1.jpg
QFT
CCP HTFU and do the right thing please.
Wow, overreaction much? Sheesh. I'm going to laugh my ass off when CCP decides the changes aren't a good idea and revert to original idea. You people act like this is the permanent change. Yet its still half a month away.
It will be indeed hilarious you knee-jerking people. lol lol and finally: lol
--Isaac Signature is now under construction: check back in a couple weeks.
AMAAR VICTOR!
"You just can't fix stupid"
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.18 00:51:00 -
[1525]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 18/11/2009 00:52:30 Edited by: Karlemgne on 18/11/2009 00:51:54
Originally by: R0ze
So there is an effort to get not just complete few L4 and wolla you got a pwnmobile.. And if you are using it for lowsec hotdrops sooner or later you will loose it.. believe me.
10 billion = a "few" level 4s? Are we even playing the same game? Exactly how disconnected from the regular player base are you? I mean I was pretty sure there was some disconnect, but this is just a testament to how LARGE of a disconnect their actually is.
Quote: To become an AFK moon miner you had to go through a lot of pain .. Or you think the moons are distributed by CCP for free? And whats the problem for you to become one?
A couple things here. You are crazy if you think that the "pain" it took you to wrest control of your afk moon-goo was anywhere NEAR the pain it would be to grind out 10 billion isk in level 4 missions.
Mostly though, you just sound like someone who is arguing for protecting your own privileged. Much like a factory owner arguing that, sure if your wage slaves were to just work hard enough, they could be the boss too.
The fact is I have absolutely no respect for your position of privileged visa vis the other players of eve. I shouldn't have to lecture you about the finer points of economics, institutionalization of power, etc for you to realize that telling people to "get their own moons" is patently ridiculous.
Quote:
Otherways you could also reduce the price to BS level and let everyone to have bunch of MSes parked in stations.. why not?
This is a strawman. Nobody is suggesting this. What people are suggesting is that you simply lower the barrier of entry to super-caps. Despite what you think 10 billion isk is probably 15x what the average eve player has had in their wallet at the times when their wallet was at its fattest. My sig don't fracking work. |
Chicken Breasts
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Posted - 2009.11.18 01:22:00 -
[1526]
Edited by: Chicken Breasts on 18/11/2009 01:23:02
Originally by: Karlemgne 10 billion = a "few" level 4s? Are we even playing the same game? Exactly how disconnected from the regular player base are you? I mean I was pretty sure there was some disconnect, but this is just a testament to how LARGE of a disconnect their actually is.
I think you are taking his post a little too seriously. (on purpose)
Originally by: Karlemgne What people are suggesting is that you simply lower the barrier of entry to super-caps.
Why in the world does there need to be a lower barrier of entry to supercaps?
P.S. We broke 110K views on the thread. o_0
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.18 02:16:00 -
[1527]
Originally by: Karlemgne What people are suggesting is that you simply lower the barrier of entry to super-caps. Despite what you think 10 billion isk is probably 15x what the average eve player has had in their wallet at the times when their wallet was at its fattest.
Why? Why the _average_ eve player needs to fly a supercapital?
The whole essence of the ship-class is to be rare / expensive and shiney.. You could ask why everyone is not allowed to fly imperial geddons or federate megas and why the price has sooo many zeros (if there ever be one for sale in anytime)..
p.s. also you are way "disconnected" thinking that 10bn is something distant from the average player (maybe you need to get more familiar with ways of earning ISK in the game).. Where do you think all theese officer fit hisec CNRs and golems come from (some cost more than a MS)? Then again its not related to this thread.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.18 03:02:00 -
[1528]
Originally by: Sellyna 3 new pages of post gone, ccp is realy trying to censoring this thread.
It's great to live in a comunist world (CCP ftw)
I only wish. My sig don't fracking work. |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.18 03:19:00 -
[1529]
Originally by: R0ze
Originally by: Karlemgne What people are suggesting is that you simply lower the barrier of entry to super-caps. Despite what you think 10 billion isk is probably 15x what the average eve player has had in their wallet at the times when their wallet was at its fattest.
Why? Why the _average_ eve player needs to fly a supercapital?
I'm starting to sound like a parrot. These "supercapitals" are being rebalanced to fill an anti-capital DPS role. Why exactly should this role only be filled by the uber-rich? Please, pray tell me why you deserve an entire class of ships--two separate ship types (Titans and Moms)--all to yourself.
At the projected price tag 2/3 of eve's players will be, still, forever barred from owning the ship. Of those 1/3 who could afford one at some point in their eve career, few will ever buy them.
So what you are really talking about is taking a ship that less than 1% of the player base uses and extending that to 5%. Oh the humanity.
Quote: The whole essence of the ship-class is to be rare / expensive and shiney..
And they're changing that so the essence of the ship is an anti-cap dps platform. If you want a shiny epeen go buy yourself a Titan or a guardian vexor.
Quote: You could ask why everyone is not allowed to fly imperial geddons or federate megas and why the price has sooo many zeros (if there ever be one for sale in anytime)..
Not even the same thing. These are rare ships that are only handed out during events. There is no way to build them, buy them with LP, etc. That accounts for their price tag--they are trophies.
If there was a way to build/buy these ships, they probably wouldn't be 60 billion isk.
Quote: p.s. also you are way "disconnected" thinking that 10bn is something distant from the average player (maybe you need to get more familiar with ways of earning ISK in the game).. Where do you think all theese officer fit hisec CNRs and golems come from (some cost more than a MS)? Then again its not related to this thread.
There aren't a lot of "officer fit CNRs" in the game. Faction fit? Sure. Officer fit? No. And I do quite well trading, thanks, I could afford one of your epeens now if I so chose. The issue is that I also run level 4s, and I know how long it would take to grind out 10 billion isk doing them.
And I promise, the amount of time it takes to grind out a billion isk in level 4s makes a lot of people's eyes bleed. 10 billion is nearly out of the question. If CCP were to say to me, "you can't do anything but run missions until you make 10 billion at it," I'd quit the game in a heartbeat.
-Karlemgne My sig don't fracking work. |
Chicken Breasts
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Posted - 2009.11.18 03:52:00 -
[1530]
Edited by: Chicken Breasts on 18/11/2009 03:53:57
Originally by: Karlemgne These "supercapitals" are being rebalanced to fill an anti-capital DPS role. Why exactly should this role only be filled by the uber-rich?
Dreads are and always will be the mainstay dps and body of a cap fleet and are worlds more efficient per ISK. Don't try and word it like the "anti-capital dps" role is solely covered by supercaps. Supercaps are just going to do it better per ship (hopefully).
Quote: Please, pray tell me why you deserve an entire class of ships--two separate ship types (Titans and Moms)--all to yourself
It's 8 total ships in the entire game. Give me a break.
Quote: And they're changing that so the essence of the ship is an anti-cap dps platform. If you want a shiny epeen go buy yourself a Titan or a guardian vexor.
No, they are changing it so that the ship includes something more than being rare and shiny so it may very well be worth the money/risk to actually use them.
Quote: Not even the same thing. These are rare ships that are only handed out during events. There is no way to build them, buy them with LP, etc. That accounts for their price tag--they are trophies.
Yet you lump guardian vexors and titans in the same category only a few lines up.
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.18 05:13:00 -
[1531]
We are getting off the topic here people we need to stick to the facts.
1. even with +2 drones per level motherships still suck and cant kill dreads. It needs to be +3 drones per level
2. they are too cheap at 5 billion Motherships need to be at least 10 billion -16 billion. If you want to reduce the cost, reduce the cost to build the clone vat. . personally all i need to do is sell my thanatos and moros and i could buy one easily.
3. WHAT ABOUT THE BUILDERS AND TEH PEOPLE TRYING TO SELL THEM CURRENTLY?? you are not only giving the pilots of these great vessels the shaft, you are giving the builders the shaft too. Everytime someone tries to sell a mothership there are 10 posts of 5 billion bids and Zymurgist coming in to delete these posts.
4. How are you going to reimburse players for spendign the 18-20 billion
5. How are you going to prevent docking games?
/fake edit, page 50 its a threadnaught now
REMEMBER VOICE YOUR OPINIONS HERE ALSO CSM THREAD
oh and when you hit post in there remember to click the support box.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.18 05:19:00 -
[1532]
50 pages, no explanation. ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.18 05:26:00 -
[1533]
Originally by: Chicken Breasts
Dreads are and always will be the mainstay dps and body of a cap fleet and are worlds more efficient per ISK. Don't try and word it like the "anti-capital dps" role is solely covered by supercaps. Supercaps are just going to do it better per ship (hopefully).
I didn't try to word it like anything. Dreads will STILL be more a more efficient platform for massive amounts of DPS. That the supercarrier is being changed to a much more expensive and more mobile anti-cap dps platform testifies to CCPs believing that there is a NEED for such a ship.
But of course, the professional game designers, the ones who have access to much more information about the state of the game are wrong--they always are--especially when they get in the way of you owning a supercarrier as part of "look at my epeen" club.
Quote: It's 8 total ships in the entire game. Give me a break.
So what. Its an entire TIER of ships that are priced out to almost EVERYONE in the game. Because we really need 8 ships meant to fill particular roles, that less than 1% of eve can actually afford to buy.
In any case, the top 4 ships of the tier remain protected, as do all of the available trophy ships that you are more than free to buy and fly around if you really need to shove your "epeen" in people's faces.
Quote: No, they are changing it so that the ship includes something more than being rare and shiny so it may very well be worth the money/risk to actually use them.
So now you're saying that its not in the essence that they're big, exclusive, and shiny? In any event, CCP is actually redfining the role of these ships in such a way as to make your characterization baseless. That might be how YOU want them to be changed, but as of this moment, that isn't how they're actually being changed.
Quote: Yet you lump guardian vexors and titans in the same category only a few lines up.
Only because, according to you and your ilk, these ships have exclusivity in their essence, and they're worthless to you without it. Thus I tell you to buy a Titan or a guardian vexor--these remain bastions of exclusivity.
My sig don't fracking work. |
Tesha
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Posted - 2009.11.18 05:31:00 -
[1534]
lol the ammount for crying here is just awsome, sweet sweet supercap pilot tears mmmh..
I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, dont listen to the "i wanna solo in my supercap" idiots, go ccp!
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.18 05:38:00 -
[1535]
Originally by: Tesha
I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, dont listen to the "i wanna solo in my supercap" idiots, go ccp!
Going by that logic you should shut up. Since the only people backing the changes are the people who you described yourself. Sweet delicious irony. Tastes 150% more nutritious than Supercap tears. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.18 05:51:00 -
[1536]
Originally by: Tesha lol the ammount for crying here is just awsome, sweet sweet supercap pilot tears mmmh..
I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, dont listen to the "i wanna solo in my supercap" idiots, go ccp!
Wow, your ignorance and/or stupidity is astonishing.
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.18 06:22:00 -
[1537]
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: Tesha lol the ammount for crying here is just awsome, sweet sweet supercap pilot tears mmmh..
I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, I want to be in a cap battle with soo many fighter bombers on the field I cant log into EvE until after the battle is over only to find that im in my new clone cause soo many citidel torps were going all over the place causing desyncs and node crashes.
Wow, your ignorance and/or stupidity is astonishing.
Fixed.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.18 06:43:00 -
[1538]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 18/11/2009 06:43:18
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: Tesha lol the ammount for crying here is just awsome, sweet sweet supercap pilot tears mmmh..
I for one, and MANY others welcome these changes, I want to be in a cap battle with soo many fighter bombers on the field I cant log into EvE until after the battle is over only to find that im in my new clone cause soo many citidel torps were going all over the place causing desyncs and node crashes.
Wow, your ignorance and/or stupidity is astonishing.
Fixed.
Oh, now its about lag issues caused by fighter bombers? Yet, I'm sure, you remain steadfastly opposed to the new "nerf" restricting the number of FBs deployable by supercarriers.
You guys really need to get together, pick an argument and stick to it, instead of changing your tune every 15 minutes. My sig don't fracking work. |
Chicken Breasts
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Posted - 2009.11.18 07:11:00 -
[1539]
Originally by: Karlemgne I didn't try to word it like anything. Dreads will STILL be more a more efficient platform for massive amounts of DPS. That the supercarrier is being changed to a much more expensive and more mobile anti-cap dps platform testifies to CCPs believing that there is a NEED for such a ship.
There really is no "need" for supercarriers. Just like there really is no need for T2, T3, faction or uniques. Yet they exist to give the game variety, flavor and ships to strive for at different levels of one's eve carrier. Just because you don't care to fly the ships (very) loosely labeled as "endgame" doesn't mean their placement on that level isn't important to others. You stick to small gang low-sec roaming and that's perfectly fine.
Quote: But of course, the professional game designers, the ones who have access to much more information about the state of the game are wrong--they always are--especially when they get in the way of you owning a supercarrier as part of "look at my epeen" club.
Still on about the epeen thing, eh? And yes, game designers are often wrong (as are the players). Especially when said game designers (like Nozh) clearly don't play the game and have numbers and spreadsheets but no "real" knowledge of the game.
Quote: Because we really need 8 ships meant to fill particular roles, that less than 1% of eve can actually afford to buy.
See, I might almost believe you when you say you aren't trying to word it so it looks like SCs/dreads are in some special role dreads can't fill and "poorer" people (you know, not in my "ilk") will be missing out on having that role filled, if it weren't for you saying lines like this.
Quote: In any case, the top 4 ships of the tier remain protected, as do all of the available trophy ships that you are more than free to buy and fly around if you really need to shove your "epeen" in people's faces.
Sorry, but a guardian vexor or any other "trophy" ship doesn't do that well in combat. I actually own zero pure trophy ships. Titans are NOT trophies in the same sense as a guardian vexor so stop grouping them together.
Quote: So now you're saying that its not in the essence that they're big, exclusive, and shiny? In any event, CCP is actually redfining the role of these ships in such a way as to make your characterization baseless. That might be how YOU want them to be changed, but as of this moment, that isn't how they're actually being changed.
Read what I said again. It really was quite clear.
Quote: Only because, according to you and your ilk, these ships have exclusivity in their essence, and they're worthless to you without it. Thus I tell you to buy a Titan or a guardian vexor--these remain bastions of exclusivity.
Again, you don't seem to get the point. Nor did I ever say SCs were worthless to me without their currently level of "Exclusivity". In fact that is the least of my concerns when it comes to Nozh's changes.
P.S. Who exactly is "my ilk", anyways?
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.18 07:49:00 -
[1540]
Originally by: Karlemgne Edited by: Karlemgne on 18/11/2009 06:43:18 [
Oh, now its about lag issues caused by fighter bombers? Yet, I'm sure, you remain steadfastly opposed to the new "nerf" restricting the number of FBs deployable by supercarriers.
You guys really need to get together, pick an argument and stick to it, instead of changing your tune every 15 minutes.
The restriction on motherships does not just apply to fighter bombers. It also applies to regular fighters, and applies to regular drones. A mothership has extreme versitility based on the 20 drone amount. example is 20 sentries shooting as a pos, or 20 repair drones in groups of 5 going around around an doing logistics.
heres what woudl happen. 1 nyx atm is about 20 billion with fittings, that woudl be 20 drones.
With the proposed changes you could get ~ 4 nyxes for the same price and have 45 + drones out on the field instead. By this logic you have over 2x the amount of the drones on the field doing many more server calls for targets and firing and tracking. Thats why i brought up the lag issue. when you have more elements on the field it brings more stress to the servers in processing them.
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R0ze
Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.18 11:31:00 -
[1541]
Originally by: Karlemgne And they're changing that so the essence of the ship is an anti-cap dps platform.
And that's what this whine thread is about.. Noone can't see where after the last changes the ANTI-Capital role has been squeesed in.. as they can't kill a single capital instead a new role has appeared "station huggers"..
If you wanted some new role a T2 carrier as people suggestted would be much better choice.
Originally by: Karlemgne If you want a shiny epeen go buy yourself a Titan..
The funny thing is I have one.. and its even worthless (except you can only play a mobile POS-module now) than a MS (but thats another thread again).
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.18 13:23:00 -
[1542]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Wow, overreaction much? Sheesh. I'm going to laugh my ass off when CCP decides the changes aren't a good idea and revert to original idea. You people act like this is the permanent change. Yet its still half a month away.
It will be indeed hilarious you knee-jerking people. lol lol and finally: lol
--Isaac
how cute he actually has faith CCP would do something that makes sense
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.11.18 15:30:00 -
[1543]
50 pages even with ccp stealth editing and another day with no update. feeling disheartened now much
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Eniy Oh
Gallente United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.18 15:40:00 -
[1544]
I hope the silence on CCP's part means they're behind the scenes frantically trying to fix this.
Otherwise I'm gonna call it: MS nerf "best" nerf! --- The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Kelly O'Connor
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 16:46:00 -
[1545]
Please can we have a response CCP, lots of points (some good and some not) being raised here. Its really not much to ask to get a reply?
You are editing out posts for fun so its not as if you dont come here :P
Kelly
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Caroline Nikon
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:13:00 -
[1546]
Originally by: Eniy Oh I hope the silence on CCP's part means they're behind the scenes frantically trying to fix this.
Otherwise I'm gonna call it: MS nerf "best" nerf!
pff no way. MS nerf is no match to the massive naglfar nerf!
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Digital Gaidin
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:13:00 -
[1547]
Where have they said that Supercarriers can dock at any station?
My understanding was that the initial change required a very expensive module installed at a station in 0.0 that is player owned? This would allow alliance pilots a place to park their ship (station-wise) while keeping the docking locations relatively few (possibly one per major alliance?).
Completely agree regarding station hugging at THOSE stations... but there just seems to be too much emo-raging without enough up-to-date feedback to justify it.
Just a guess though... if you'd like to know what they are thinking right now, being civil might get you a lot closer to that information rather than whining, yelling, screaming, throwing a tantrum, emo-raging, threatening to quit, calling the developers idiots, etc.
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Aqua Tarkus
ZER0. IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:26:00 -
[1548]
Edited by: Aqua Tarkus on 18/11/2009 17:27:38
Originally by: Digital Gaidin ...a very expensive module... This would allow alliance pilots a place to park their ship (station-wise) while keeping the docking locations relatively few (possibly one per major alliance?).
Been there didn't work last time: "2-3 titans for a whole eve-universe" (c)
btw currently on SiSi docking was removed at NPC stations like those which are in FD- but I'm not sure about outposts. Nevertheless it will be terrible idea to let them dock at all. And yeah +1 fighter bonus instead of previous +2 while we suggesting to leave at +3. Who needs our feedback anyways :(
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:33:00 -
[1549]
Edited by: McFly on 18/11/2009 17:36:34
Originally by: Digital Gaidin Where have they said that Supercarriers can dock at any station?
They didn't specify, Nozh's last post simply said..
Originally by: CCP Nozh Super Carrier Changes: * Can dock at stations
page 28 post 823 CCP Nozh Post
Also the outpost upgrade was completely hypothetical as a possibility post dominion. Reference Abathur's Fanfest Presentation on Game Design.
The Real reasons for this thread being what it is... - No information from CCP besides short non-specific posts - Entirely too much speculation due to the lack of facts from CCP. - No Update in the last 3 SiSi Patches for us to use to find out for ourselves... - Still no Devblog which was promised to clear things up...
- No explanation as to why CCP Nohz announced these changes with... -- very little information -- barely any testing time before release -- and no SiSi update to reflect what's been posted by Nozh.
Eve is loaded with having to details of everything you are doing. Yet in this fairly significant change we've yet to recieve any detailed information from Nozh or Abathur as to WTF is going on? 52 pages (including removed posts) and 13 days til dominion... Starting to remind me of The Quantum Rise Blaster Threadnaught....
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Digital Gaidin
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:37:00 -
[1550]
Lets assume that docking can ONLY occur at player owned stations. Lets also assume that for one reason or another, ALL player owned stations can have supercarriers dock.
Docking games would suck but infrastructure hubs would be hit instead at all these locations. Unless the hubs can be placed at stations, this requires the defenders to leave the stations (or simply assign fighters but that happens anyways). Killing these behemoths becomes near impossible but their usefulness in defending is mitigated.
Where will they die? Trying to evac after a station has fallen. NPC-0.0 and LowSec when an alliance has been ousted from their space. In combat against Dreadnought/Carrier fleets.
If they can dock in NPC-0.0 and LowSec, rant away :)
--------
If these changes go through they'll be a helluva lot more common... but not being "super capitals" so much anymore and more of a "tier 2 carrier", that's not so bad. Dreadnought fights when mom's come onto the field now usually end up with the moms running ASAP as their tanks start to be melted by focused fire. It'll be nice finding reasons and motivation to keep these ships on the field for some good fights.
I look forward to how this will play out. I also hope to pilot a Wyvern one day without having to setup a holding character (my primary motivation for only flying Chimera's right now... Skills being secondary... ISK being a distant tertiary)
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Viceroy Defilus
Amarr Solar Nexus.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 18:23:00 -
[1551]
STOP! I have the best suggestion:
1 fighter-bomber per Supermegahappycarrier It can use gates and can dock It can launch fighters while docked at a station It can turn into a robot pos with fricken lasers It costs 100mil It can jump anywhere in EVE land 5000% bonus to mining It has a magic-reactor that turns everything into Dyspro You can use it to save the game
Where do i send my app to become a dev?
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Viceroy Defilus
Amarr Solar Nexus.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 18:29:00 -
[1552]
Actually to not troll ccp:
- 12bil MOM - 20 FBs - They need to due absolutely rediculous amount of DPS to caps (like you should **** your pants when u see it on the field) None of this lollygagging about close fights with Dreads - No Docking unless extremely expensive Station upgrades in 0.0
thats it. Game over.. don't think about it anymore.
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Digital Gaidin
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Posted - 2009.11.18 18:38:00 -
[1553]
Originally by: Viceroy Defilus Actually to not troll ccp:
- 12bil MOM - 20 FBs - They need to due absolutely rediculous amount of DPS to caps (like you should **** your pants when u see it on the field) None of this lollygagging about close fights with Dreads - No Docking unless extremely expensive Station upgrades in 0.0
thats it. Game over.. don't think about it anymore.
Well, if I'm to **** my pants when I see one of them, what happens when I see 25 of them cyno in together?
Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS. These ships with 15 FB (20 with 5x DCU's but no one will EVER do that) do roughly double... assuming of course the fighter bombers are properly implemented (few bugs I'm sure you'll figure out regarding target sig radius and target speed).
You are still talking about taking awhile to kill a properly tanked capital ship even with a few supercarriers on the field, but that is preferable to bringing an "I PWN YOU ALL" fleet when 25 IT supercarriers jump in, your 50 man capital gang lags for 2 minutes and when everyone starts getting frames again while waking up in pods/stations.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:06:00 -
[1554]
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS.
lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure.
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Darknesss
NibbleTek
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:16:00 -
[1555]
Originally by: Drachenlord Seriously... the Cost Reduction is fine...
It ONLY effects the people who have bought them recently... or just want to hop on that bandwagon to get some money back...
In the real world, as I said, you don't get your money back if an investment fails.. simple... Giving them their money back, fine I can deal with that...
But anyone that claims that this hurts the people who produce these ships for sale is trying to obfuscate the fact that demand will very likely increase and potentially netting them more profit.
Hopefully CCP will remember to reduce the build time to compensate.
Since when was buying a Mothership an investment?
If I want to invest i'll buy stocks and shares. When I buy an Aston Martin I expect an Aston Martin.
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:17:00 -
[1556]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS.
lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure.
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:26:00 -
[1557]
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS.
lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure.
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
simple math escapes these whiny idiots. They cant see through their blood-soaked eyes and see that the Moms are gunna be better not worse.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:27:00 -
[1558]
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS.
lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure.
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
simple math escapes these whiny idiots. They cant see through their blood-soaked eyes and see that the Moms are gunna be better not worse.
Except with only 10 or 15 drones, they still wont be breaking the tank of any dreads, which is their supposed new role... The Light in the Darkness
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Ai Mei
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:30:00 -
[1559]
Dont feed the Minmatar Citizen troll, If he couldnt even spend 30 seconds to come up with proper forum alt name then he doesnt deserved to be fed, or give good feed back.
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:50:00 -
[1560]
Im actually starting to fear that theyll keep the FB's the way they are so that the new "supercarriers" wont make normal carriers obsolete. By giving them the ability to only hit supercaps for normal damage and barely do more damage than reg caps to normal ones, they make sure that fighters / carriers still have a role... "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Digital Gaidin
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:56:00 -
[1561]
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS.
lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure.
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
If I recall correctly, I was unable to fit a Phoenix with max skills to be anywhere close to 5k DPS, and know of no changes making Dreadnoughts get near 6k DPS with Dominion.
Regarding 10,000 DPS, this does not jive with the numbers being reported CURRENTLY from SiSi by Supercarrier pilots, but I have no direct knowledge personally. 12,000 DPS was initially reported by one of our premier supercap pilots during Max Skills testing with the initial changes, and I've heard between 7000 to 9000 DPS maximum with max skills with the current changes (flight of 15 bombers). Additionally, numbers posted from IT calculations put them much closer in the ballpark of Dreadnoughts currently if targeting moving carriers and/or seiged Dreadnoughts.
Regardless, it seems that the community seems to suggest that 2x-3x seiged Dreadnought DPS seems appropriate for a ship that can be repped, move (speed tank seiged capitals and fighter bombers), ewar immune, and warp/jump at any time during combat for roughly 4x-5x the price seems appropriate. T2 fit Dreadnoughts run approx 1.7 Billion post rigs. T2 fit Carriers run about 1.2 Billion post rigs with fighters. T2 fit Supercarriers (yes, there will be T2 fit Supercarriers) will run 7 Billion post rigs (T1 rigs) with fighters/bombers. Pimped out ships obviously run more and provide better tanking at increased cost. Very little can be done by spending more to increase DPS for carriers/supercarriers.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:02:00 -
[1562]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Im actually starting to fear that theyll keep the FB's the way they are so that the new "supercarriers" wont make normal carriers obsolete. By giving them the ability to only hit supercaps for normal damage and barely do more damage than reg caps to normal ones, they make sure that fighters / carriers still have a role...
Indeed, the issue is magnified by the fact the updated Supercarrier classes are "only" 5-6b to build so if this is the reason then I can see why it has such a limit. Keeping the Supercarrier's original price will keep it relatively few in New Eden and generally reserved for the elites.
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:05:00 -
[1563]
Consider that a Moros T2 fit can provide ~7000dps right now. Can Provide even more after the Patch. Consider that with explo radius changes the dps is not just 15/20 * 10000 its aprox abit more than half of that. >.>
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:27:00 -
[1564]
Edited by: Impolite Andevil on 18/11/2009 20:31:16
Originally by: Minmatar citizen4561451
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS.
lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure.
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
simple math escapes these whiny idiots. They cant see through their blood-soaked eyes and see that the Moms are gunna be better not worse.
I'm not sure where your numbers are coming from, but it's definitely not from math. See this post for the math involved: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180138&page=21#606 or just look at the results calculated by Oljud Zork:
Quote: The targets: Naglfar with 3x Lg CDFE I, In Siege, 1886m sig, 0m/s velocity. Naglfar with 3x Lg CDFE I, Full Thrust, 1886m sig, 106m/s velocity. Nidhoggur, Standstill, 2865m sig, 0m/s velocity. Nidhoggur, Full Thrust, 2865m sig, 112.5m/s velocity. Hel, Standstill and Full Thrust: No difference between standstill or full thrust. The same results are for all the Super Carriers and Titans as well.
Aeon and Wyvern against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 1724 dps and using 5 DCU 2299 dps. Nyx against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 2155 dps and using 5 DCU 2874 dps. Hel against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 2759 dps and using 5 DCU 3679 dps.
Aeon and Wyvern against a Naglfar, Full Thrust: 869 dps and using 5 DCU 1158 dps. Nyx against a Naglfar, Full Thrust: 1086 dps and using 5 DCU 1448 dps. Hel against a Naglfar, Full Thrust: 1456 dps and using 5 DCU 1941 dps.
Aeon and Wyvern against Nidhoggur, Standstill: 2619 dps and using 5 DCU 3493 dps. Nyx against Nidhoggur, Standstill: 3274 dps and using 5 DCU 4366 dps. Hel against Nidhoggur, Standstill: 3200 dps and using 5 DCU 4267 dps.
Aeon and Wyvern against Nidhoggur, Full Thrust: 1288 dps and using 5 DCU 1717 dps. Nyx against Nidhoggur, Full Thrust: 1610 dps and using 5 DCU 2147 dps. Hel against Nidhoggur, Full Thrust: 2158 dps and using 5 DCU 2877 dps.
Aeon, Wyvern and Hel against Hel, Standstill and Full Thrust: 3200 dps and using 5 DCU 4267 dps. Nyx against Hel, Standstill and Full Thrust: 4000 dps and using 5 DCU 5333dps.
So the Nyx with 5 DCUs at an absolute best case does 5333 DPS against a supercap, and more realistic scenarios are 2k-3k DPS against normal caps. How about we have more math and less wild hand waving and tossing of silly numbers about?
Edit - note that in some cases, a mothership with a normal fit (not 5 DCUs in highs) will be doing less damage vs. capitals than a t2 fit battleship, let alone a dread. And these are specialized anti-cap ships? I think not.
Also remember that sieged dreads and triaged carriers (read: the highest priority targets for a "specialized anti-cap ship") are immune to target painters, so how exactly is their support fleet going to help their DPS?
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Digital Gaidin
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:27:00 -
[1565]
Edited by: Digital Gaidin on 18/11/2009 20:34:44
Originally by: Kel Arkir Consider that a Moros T2 fit can provide ~7000dps right now. Can Provide even more after the Patch. Consider that with explo radius changes the dps is not just 15/20 * 10000 its aprox abit more than half of that. >.>
I stand corrected... at max skills with 3x Damage Mods, In Seige, with Short Range Faction Ammo...
Phoenix + Torps pre Dominion: ~4750 DPS Moros + Blasters pre Dominion: ~6650 DPS
Not sure I'd ever run with the Moros fit as seiging towers would be a little problamatic due to range... and I better be hotdropped right fracking on top of whoever I'm trying to kill... but the Moros can fit a solid setup much closer to the Phoenix DPS as well with workable range for Deathstars and capital ship warfare. Realistic skills and situational modifiers make the DPS less of course, but in theory those numbers seem sound enough.
To rephrase my earlier claim, approximately double Dreadnought DPS on a supercarrier would likely be appropriate for the end product at its current price-point. Until EFT releases a revision with Supercarrier's with Fighter Bombers though, its hard to compare the above EFT numbers to tested supercarrier numbers as the above will rarely in practice match reality.
Also realize that for 4x the pricepoint, you have *AT LEAST* the same firepower, more versatility, and far more than 4x the tank of any Dreadnought.
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Digital Gaidin
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:33:00 -
[1566]
Impolite Andevil,
Your numbers that you are quoting are measured values from a test performed. While those numbers are far more realistic to the values likely to be seen "in the field", I'd like to compare those to Dreadnought values for the same situation using a common setup.
Please don't compare apples to oranges. Taking EFT numbers and comparing them to measured results in not a fair comparison (which seems implied regarding the post you are comparing those numbers to), and when you DO perform the dreadnought test, it would be interesting to note the ranges and ammunition used (Moros at 10km is very different than Moros at 50km).
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Ne0tr0n
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:42:00 -
[1567]
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Dreadnoughts do a *ridiculous* amount of DPS to caps and that's in the ballpark of 3000ish DPS.
lol. if you fit properly, its nearer 5k, after patch it'll be 6+, moms wont be able to do that. go figure.
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
have you ever heard of something thats called "explosion radius"?
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dracice
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.11.18 20:48:00 -
[1568]
Quote:
Except with only 10 or 15 drones, they still wont be breaking the tank of any dreads, which is their supposed new role...
wow man your stupid, since when has one capital ship been able to break another capital ships tank one on one?
your getting on as if only one ship or super carrier will be firing at said dread. how long does a dread last with your calculations under fire from 5?
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:20:00 -
[1569]
If you're intent on allowing supercarriers to dock, at least don't let them rep up in stations, at all. Give us some RP reason like "this station is not equipped to handle the restructuring needs of such a large and complex ship." That will mitigate station docking games alot. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
The Kan
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:27:00 -
[1570]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat If you're intent on allowing supercarriers to dock, at least don't let them rep up in stations, at all. Give us some RP reason like "this station is not equipped to handle the restructuring needs of such a large and complex ship." That will mitigate station docking games alot.
no. no docking at all. period.
15b++ cost 3 drones/fighter per level no docking
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:34:00 -
[1571]
Originally by: The Kan
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat If you're intent on allowing supercarriers to dock, at least don't let them rep up in stations, at all. Give us some RP reason like "this station is not equipped to handle the restructuring needs of such a large and complex ship." That will mitigate station docking games alot.
no. no docking at all. period.
15b++ cost 3 drones/fighter per level no docking
This The Light in the Darkness
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:43:00 -
[1572]
Originally by: dracice
Quote:
Except with only 10 or 15 drones, they still wont be breaking the tank of any dreads, which is their supposed new role...
wow man your stupid, since when has one capital ship been able to break another capital ships tank one on one?
your getting on as if only one ship or super carrier will be firing at said dread. how long does a dread last with your calculations under fire from 5?
Since they were supposed to be filling a new anti-capital ship role. If you need a bunch of them to kill a cheaper ship like a dread, that is just as good if not better at killing capitals, then WTF is the point of the new SC or the changes made to them. It needs to excel in something and that something should be something other than station games.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.18 22:00:00 -
[1573]
Since it seems that posting any sort of SC thread outside of this one will get locked, I'm stuck posting in this **** thread. Oh well.
One of the largest issues of fleet combat is actually getting the numbers for a fight. The skill requirements for piloting a SC/Mom is negligible over and above what is needed to fly a Carrier.
Fleet combat isn't like any other combat in that you have to consider the scale of numbers in a big way. Anyway, enough preaching.
As soon as a Dread goes into siege it's dead meat, same for same for Carriers and triage. SCs with their EW immunity make it impossible to disrupt their RR spider tanking and with their massive EHP protects them against anything but massive alpha strikes by tens of Titans.
Once everyone finds out what the critical mass is for a proper SC fleet (15? 20? 30?) It'll be almost impossible to extricate such a force outside of crashing the node and tons of metagaming.
Anyway, what is it going to look like when 30+ SCs engage 150 dreads/carriers and a few titans and the SCs do a massive remote ECM burst volley across 20-30 targets coupled with damps with lock speed scripts and start putting their FB swarms on target? SCs will speedtank any of the current anti-capital weapons fairly easily since they can't be webbed or target painted.
While Dreads need Carrier smartbomb cover to defend against FBs and fighters, SCs can bring their own FB defense with them. The SC becomes a swiss army knife of capabilities once it scales with numbers upwards of 15+. Reducing the build cost and indeed, the cost of ownership with the ability to dock so players don't have to run a dedicated account for their SC will make a very big difference in their numbers in the game.
Fights amongst SC fleets will probably become one of FB/fighter attrition. Dreads are useless without siege and they can't hit anything while in siege and can't be remote repped, so they're useless in siege as well.
Titans? Why fly them when you can field a TON of SCs for the same cost? And let's not forget the insurance... 2.55b for platinum insurance, pays out 8.5b in ISK. TALK ABOUT AN ISK FAUCET. Good grief. That's 5.95b in raw ISK for a payout. There's your price floor for any SC hull. GG CCP with your insurance.
And people are complaining about SCs being nerfed? Hah.
The mess that is going to be 0.0 combat pales in comparison to what is going to happen to lowsec. Hotdrops and docking games are already bad enough as it is. Once 12-20 man MS gangs arrive in lowsec it's going to be miserable.
Personally, I'll be getting one or two, or three; as soon as possible if the current changes see TQ. I'll be complaining a LOT if they introduce the changes to TQ and then quickly revert them six months later and remove the ability to dock etc. Either way, whoever is spearheading these changes is a ****ing ******. Nice job Ivar.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.11.18 22:09:00 -
[1574]
Even though I agree(!) with murderone's analysis about the new sc I'm still getting at least two maybe three if they can dock for my fw alts just so I'm not a victim when everyone else has one. Let the docking games of doom begin..
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
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Posted - 2009.11.18 22:10:00 -
[1575]
Originally by: Digital Gaidin Impolite Andevil,
Your numbers that you are quoting are measured values from a test performed. While those numbers are far more realistic to the values likely to be seen "in the field", I'd like to compare those to Dreadnought values for the same situation using a common setup.
Please don't compare apples to oranges. Taking EFT numbers and comparing them to measured results in not a fair comparison (which seems implied regarding the post you are comparing those numbers to), and when you DO perform the dreadnought test, it would be interesting to note the ranges and ammunition used (Moros at 10km is very different than Moros at 50km).
I have no idea where you got the idea that those are measured numbers - they are not. They are straight from the missile damage formulas (as stated in the post I referenced). The fact is that with the explosion radius set so insanely high and the explosion velocity so low, fighter-bombers do very little damage even against cap ships. These are theoretical max numbers, not measured. In reality the numbers would likely be below these.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.18 23:01:00 -
[1576]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 18/11/2009 23:03:04
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I have no idea where you got the idea that those are measured numbers - they are not. They are straight from the missile damage formulas (as stated in the post I referenced).
What he was trying to say is you are comparing expected real dps against raw EFT dps, and not taking engagement range into account. For the projected SC dps you are applying damage reduction, for the dread dps you are comparing it to you are not taking damage reduction into account.
The new citadel torp stats would for example receive about 13% damage reduction from their EFT dps against sieged dreads, more against moving targets, so a Phoenix or Naglfar (may it rest in peace) wouldnt be able to achieve its on-paper dps there.
Then there is the range thing, citadel torps will have a range of roughly 30km if I remember it right, shortrange dread turrets about 50km, while the FBs are much more flexible in that respect.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
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Posted - 2009.11.18 23:12:00 -
[1577]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 18/11/2009 23:03:04
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I have no idea where you got the idea that those are measured numbers - they are not. They are straight from the missile damage formulas (as stated in the post I referenced).
What he was trying to say is you are comparing expected real dps against raw EFT dps, and not taking engagement range into account. For the projected SC dps you are applying damage reduction, for the dread dps you are comparing it to you are not taking damage reduction into account.
The new citadel torp stats would for example receive about 13% damage reduction from their EFT dps against sieged dreads, more against moving targets, so a Phoenix or Naglfar (may it rest in peace) wouldnt be able to achieve its on-paper dps there.
Then there is the range thing, citadel torps will have a range of roughly 30km if I remember it right, shortrange dread turrets about 50km, while the FBs are much more flexible in that respect.
That may well be what he was intending to say, however, I actually didn't do any comparison of supercarrier DPS vs. dread DPS - I am just looking at supercap DPS. My concern is that the desired role for these ships as per the CCP devs is anti-cap warfare, and yet their DPS is laughably bad vs. their intended target, primarily due to the choice of explosion radius for fighter-bomber torps. Not only is the supercarrier at best equal to and often worse than a dread at what is supposed to be the supercarrier's designated task, it's also worse than a T2 BS against a moving nidhoggur. That's just horrible. Shouldn't the dedicated anti-cap ship be able to break the tank of your average sieged dread or non-triaged carrier? What this means is that supercarriers will only be effective in large blobs. Those blobs, because of the low cost, high ehp, and ewar immunity of the supercarrier, will become quite common.
Overall, this concept for supercarriers is just horrible, and there has still been no reason given for why they scrapped the changes that Abathur put together, the players tested, and everyone was happy with.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.18 23:37:00 -
[1578]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 18/11/2009 23:38:08
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
Overall, this concept for supercarriers is just horrible, and there has still been no reason given for why they scrapped the changes that Abathur put together, the players tested, and everyone was happy with.
My personal guess is they took a look at the MS trades and got scared by the sudden spike in demand.
Probably someone then imagined a blob of 20 SCs on the field, dealing 240k dps against capitals, and instapopping HICs that try to pin it down with 40k dps from fighters. Disrupting hostile RR with remote ECM burst, and merrily sitting in unbreakable RR spider.
While I agree the current stats seem to be a bit of a strange decision overall, and would prefer less fighters but a lot more dps from bombers, balancing this without hurting the game in the grand scheme of things is gonna be a very delicate matter, regardless of what players want or think would be best.
Since we will see blobs of 20-30 SCs, even if the gonna cost 15 bill, that is as sure as the sun rising tomorrow.
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2009.11.18 23:49:00 -
[1579]
Minmatar citizen4561451 = Nozh alt
I GOT YOU PEGGED SONNYJIM.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 00:59:00 -
[1580]
CCP needs to make playing the game a mandatory requirement of being a game balance dev, tbh. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.19 01:11:00 -
[1581]
Originally by: Letifer Deus CCP needs to make playing the game a mandatory requirement of being a game balance dev, tbh.
Quite frankly, they need to have separate devs in charge of each section of Eve: 0.0, high sec, low sec and PVE. Each one needs to eat live and breathe the type of gameplay that they are designing and balancing. Anything else is just a waste of time. Four specialized designers and one or two lead designers.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.19 02:05:00 -
[1582]
i think that when they actually share what they're doing with us and don't change things for no reason they do pretty well, personally.
wtf ccp nozh ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.19 02:09:00 -
[1583]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Letifer Deus CCP needs to make playing the game a mandatory requirement of being a game balance dev, tbh.
Quite frankly, they need to have separate devs in charge of each section of Eve: 0.0, high sec, low sec and PVE. Each one needs to eat live and breathe the type of gameplay that they are designing and balancing. Anything else is just a waste of time. Four specialized designers and one or two lead designers.
QFMFT.
Add to the fact that there has been no reply from CCP in days regarding this issue. It tells me they know they've messed up and are just hoping if they don't address it the issue will go away. A part of me still hopes that CCP will stop these proposed changes by nozh and review Abathurs changes.
I don't see why they can't just increase BANDWITH on the fb and go back to what they were two weeks ago
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.19 05:01:00 -
[1584]
Originally by: Severion Atarkos
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Letifer Deus CCP needs to make playing the game a mandatory requirement of being a game balance dev, tbh.
Quite frankly, they need to have separate devs in charge of each section of Eve: 0.0, high sec, low sec and PVE. Each one needs to eat live and breathe the type of gameplay that they are designing and balancing. Anything else is just a waste of time. Four specialized designers and one or two lead designers.
QFMFT.
Add to the fact that there has been no reply from CCP in days regarding this issue. It tells me they know they've messed up and are just hoping if they don't address it the issue will go away. A part of me still hopes that CCP will stop these proposed changes by nozh and review Abathurs changes.
I don't see why they can't just increase BANDWITH on the fb and go back to what they were two weeks ago
You also notice that the replies are slowing down too.
Come on ccp, where is our +3 drones per level? where is our triage, clone vat and 18 bill cost.
Where is CCP TomB?? I DEMAND TomB!!
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Iguny
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Posted - 2009.11.19 08:59:00 -
[1585]
Replies are just slowing down becous pepole find out CCP can't be stupid enuf to nerf it this way.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 09:01:00 -
[1586]
replies are slowing down because everyone's seen what everyone else thinks, and now we're waiting to see what CCP will do anything about it.
and ofc to see if our MS accounts will still be active in a month's time.
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.19 10:28:00 -
[1587]
Originally by: The Internets
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
Yes you can paint sieged dreads and triage carriers really well. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 10:38:00 -
[1588]
Originally by: RoCkEt X replies are slowing down because everyone's seen what everyone else thinks, and now we're waiting to see what CCP will do anything about it.
and ofc to see if our MS accounts will still be active in a month's time.
Indeed its time for a reply from ccp. And it better be a bloody good reply.
Don't know who to vote for? Find out with CSM matchmaker!
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:09:00 -
[1589]
Originally by: RoCkEt X replies are slowing down because everyone's seen what everyone else thinks, and now we're waiting to see what CCP will do anything about it.
and ofc to see if our MS accounts will still be active in a month's time.
Pretty much this. I check these boards (and alliance ones) a few times a day, the rest of the time I spend playing Assassins Creed 2 instead. Btw, awsome game, they actually managed to make a sequel being better then an awsome original.. I'm in chock!
Either case, I went from wonder WTF was going on with CCP to being guttered. At this point it doesn't matter what they do, the damage is already done. It's just a question if it's gonna be bad, or really horrible.
Hell, as much as I think the Carrier 2.0 would be an alot worse option then the initial xMoms we tested on SiSi, I believe we'll see blobs of them either way. As I just posted above; it's just gonna be worse if they get cheap and can dock.
..and if CCP seriously thought that the xMom market went up in price because of the initial SiSi state, then I'm gonna smack you in the face to wake you up - don't you think the totally ridicilous new Sov system, where the rich get richer (just possibly own less space), will promote a system where few bigger entities will control the production? People are buying the xMoms now, beause it'll be a ***** to get hold of them when Dominion hits. No matter if they gets nerfed or buffed. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Oljud Zork
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:13:00 -
[1590]
I am tired of all the speculations about the dps from a Super Carrier here is a Link to my dps calculations.
That post contains the calculations for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" and the given numbers are the ones CCP Nozh released. Until further information from CCP is it this that we will see in Dominion.
Compact Citadel Torpedo: Explosion Radius 3500m (2187,5m for Hel with Minmatar Carrier V) Explosion Velocity 60m Damage Reduction Factor 6,5 Base Damage 3200 (4000 for Nyx with Gallente Carrier V)
The target: Naglfar with 3x Lg CDFE I, In Siege, 1886m sig, 0m/s velocity.
The Attackers: Aeon and Wyvern against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 1724 dps and using 5 DCU 2299 dps. Nyx against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 2155 dps and using 5 DCU 2874 dps. Hel against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 2759 dps and using 5 DCU 3679 dps.
For all the good stuff and the conclusion read the link above...
Regards
// Zork
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dracice
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:42:00 -
[1591]
anti capital ship role, and UBER all in one anti cap role is two different things.
remember CCP dont want any solo pwn mobiles.
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DirtySnipe
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:49:00 -
[1592]
FAIL...
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:53:00 -
[1593]
Originally by: Oljud Zork I am tired of all the speculations about the dps from a Super Carrier here is a Link to my dps calculations.
That post contains the calculations for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" and the given numbers are the ones CCP Nozh released. Until further information from CCP is it this that we will see in Dominion.
Compact Citadel Torpedo: Explosion Radius 3500m (2187,5m for Hel with Minmatar Carrier V) Explosion Velocity 60m Damage Reduction Factor 6,5 Base Damage 3200 (4000 for Nyx with Gallente Carrier V)
The target: Naglfar with 3x Lg CDFE I, In Siege, 1886m sig, 0m/s velocity.
The Attackers: Aeon and Wyvern against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 1724 dps and using 5 DCU 2299 dps. Nyx against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 2155 dps and using 5 DCU 2874 dps. Hel against a Siege¦d Naglfar: 2759 dps and using 5 DCU 3679 dps.
For all the good stuff and the conclusion read the link above...
Regards
// Zork
Let me send you an evemail when I get home..
Don't know who to vote for? Find out with CSM matchmaker!
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:58:00 -
[1594]
Originally by: dracice anti capital ship role, and UBER all in one anti cap role is two different things.
remember CCP dont want any solo pwn mobiles.
Then why introduce Fighter Bombers, if they are just doing what Fighters do.. but purely vs big ships? Then why write a dev blog and claim you want to give a role where pilots 'want to field their supercap in combat'?
I sure as hell don't see more reasons to field my mom with the proposed changes, vs the current situation. It's more or less the same. If I field it I field it, but I know I'll be alot more careful when travelling now that I will be struggle as **** to just fend off a single HIC, as opposed to the previous 2.
Personally I wouldn't give a rats ass if CCP removed the FB's and we had the old 2k dps with 20 Fighters as max again. As long as I can keep the drones I need to fend up HIC's when moving, and I'd prefer to get more highslots tbh, right now I can't even fit the modules I consider to be a 'must have'. Solopwn? Try hold a mom down on SiSi, it doesn't even take remotely decent HIC pilots to do so anymore. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Oljud Zork
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 12:33:00 -
[1595]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Let me send you an evemail when I get home..
Sorry I am away from EvE and can only access the forums from my pocket-PC. If you really want to get in touch with me:
Join the #eve-evo channel on the irc.stratics.com it¦s an open irc channel and I am the only Zork in that channel.
Regards
// Zork
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Gyle
Caldari Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 12:47:00 -
[1596]
Dear CCP you had the Titans billed just right. Then you wrecked em. Everyone (suprecap and regular pilots alike) Thought the 200% damage per level bonus for the titans was bang on.
100% is not enough please rectify this immediately.
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 14:30:00 -
[1597]
To me, the Chimera was always the best looking ship in the game.
Although I've often steered away in different training paths, my goal from way back in 2006 was to fly one.
Recently I finally achieved the ability to, I'm talking about in the past few months.
So with this SC change, why would I fly a Chimera? Why would anyone?
They'll be the Procurer equivlent of Carriers.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.19 15:07:00 -
[1598]
Originally by: Gyle Dear CCP you had the Titans billed just right. Then you wrecked em. Everyone (suprecap and regular pilots alike) Thought the 200% damage per level bonus for the titans was bang on.
100% is not enough please rectify this immediately.
This, also replace Titans with motherships and it's still true.
wat is ze deal??? ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Grrrrrrrre
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Posted - 2009.11.19 15:22:00 -
[1599]
Well i can lay guess that ccp do want to increase the number of these ships being seen fielded. and as such with only sumthing like 415 of them in operation they proabbly feel the need to lower the costs.
i would point out that because of their own inability to fix the titans before now they have overlooked a simple fact. alliances instead of builing these ships instead buil titans. so alot of the pilots who infact should of been in motherships now are in titans.
THIS will not be brought back into line by lowering the cost of the super carrier. but instead making the titan ALOT more expensive OR useless.
I would guesstimate that almost 150pilots who should of been in mom's ended up in titans then add on the build time of a titan over a mom and you are looking at almost 220 less mom's ingame than would of been if titans had been correctly priced for their capabilitys (now and in abathur stats).
SO by altering this ship class all you will do is create another problem later down the road in 1 way or another. You should fix titans to be much more expensive and have the 200% dmg bonus.
This will limit their proliferation. leave the mom's to abathurs stats and watch as they increase in number but within reason.
have 2 ship types that will be used.
And the natural order of eve will balance out numbers in time. Sure we may see the odd 20 v 10 titan gankfest on each other but it will only happen once or twice. they will eventually balance out in numbers to the desired amount.
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dracice
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 16:19:00 -
[1600]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines To me, the Chimera was always the best looking ship in the game.
Although I've often steered away in different training paths, my goal from way back in 2006 was to fly one.
Recently I finally achieved the ability to, I'm talking about in the past few months.
So with this SC change, why would I fly a Chimera? Why would anyone?
They'll be the Procurer equivlent of Carriers.
um...a chimera is a carrier.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
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Posted - 2009.11.19 16:26:00 -
[1601]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: RoCkEt X replies are slowing down because everyone's seen what everyone else thinks, and now we're waiting to see what CCP will do anything about it.
and ofc to see if our MS accounts will still be active in a month's time.
Indeed its time for a reply from ccp. And it better be a bloody good reply.
Yep. The numbers have been crunched, the people that actually understand how cap warfare in this game works have pointed out the huge problems with the Nohz design, now we are just waiting for CCP's response and growing more and more disillusioned as all signs point to CCP thrashing about with no reasons for their changes. There is the occasional burst of activity when a troll or clueless noob that doesn't understand explosion radius comes along, but mostly we are just waiting... Check the numbers of views on the thread spiralling up. The post count has slowed, but we are all still watching closely.
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 16:27:00 -
[1602]
Originally by: dracice
um...a chimera is a carrier.
ok, I really didn't think I had to spell out the analogy:
After the patch if these changes go through,
Procurer:Retriever::Chimera:Wyvern
There is no reason to fly a carrier when dominion hits with a 5.5bil SC.
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Aurelius Valentius
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.19 16:48:00 -
[1603]
Edited by: Aurelius Valentius on 19/11/2009 16:49:57 If the Carrier and the Super-Duper-Carrier (GOD I HATE THAT NAME, it smacks of "Uber", wait the "Uber-Carrier"... way, dude! whoa... I feel my IQ plummeting into the abyss (my what big words I use...DUDE!!!) - *vomits*
Ok, *slaps self*... anyway, besides my feelings on that name... I plan on getting 1 Aeon and 1 Archon (if they are both dock capable) for my "collection of T1 ships, but I have opted to only collect them as meaningless trophies of a by-gone era, a museum piece to float and spin in the hangar of some station somewhere... perhaps await some new era of use, but resigned to a large paper weight in the current incarnation of EVE.
I shall enjoy such a toy, but my working ship shall remain the very useful ships of the game that have a role, and further, that are functional within that role... carriers started out with such hope for this expansion and well, they crashed and burned...
Also, I must say that the further I see Dominion shaping up, the less inclinded I am to ever getting into 0.0... I had ideas on it, but as it stands now, in the last few months I don't much see the point (reward), I was skilling for a Aeon, but the actual ship I will now use is probably just a transition from my Providence to a Ark and call it good... Dread, Titans and Carriers aren't looking so hot to me anymore, well at all really... my end game plan is now about ISK making and Trade, Jumping will consist of JFs to trade points... can't really go wrong there, and the skills are pretty much where they are and have been.
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The Internets
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Posted - 2009.11.19 18:09:00 -
[1604]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: The Internets
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
Yes you can paint sieged dreads and triage carriers really well.
Reading is hard. I said anything that isn't ewar immune (such as a sieged dread).
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.19 18:25:00 -
[1605]
u no just cause they costs 5-6b to build doesn't mean they're gonna cost that much :| MS' atm don't cost what they go for by a long shot and it doesn't seem like they're changing much in terms of production.
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Ne0tr0n
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 18:40:00 -
[1606]
Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: The Internets
Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).
Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.
10000 > 2500, right?
Yes you can paint sieged dreads and triage carriers really well.
Reading is hard. I said anything that isn't ewar immune (such as a sieged dread).
and thats your "anti-capital" role to not shoot the primary shipclass in a capfight?
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Ai Mei
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Posted - 2009.11.19 19:19:00 -
[1607]
To prevent my dread from being ganked by large amounts of fighter bombers. I have now elected to drop 2 turrets for faction smartbombs.
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Jade Kitana
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Posted - 2009.11.19 20:21:00 -
[1608]
Originally by: dracice
um...a chimera is a carrier.
Lol, look up quick, you may see the "point" obtaining orbit velocity.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.19 20:40:00 -
[1609]
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 19/11/2009 20:43:09
Originally by: dracice
Originally by: Vincent Gaines To me, the Chimera was always the best looking ship in the game.
Although I've often steered away in different training paths, my goal from way back in 2006 was to fly one.
Recently I finally achieved the ability to, I'm talking about in the past few months.
So with this SC change, why would I fly a Chimera? Why would anyone?
They'll be the Procurer equivlent of Carriers.
um...a chimera is a carrier.
Just in case you don't get why people might be laughing at you. I'm underlining the important part and providing you with a tip by quoting a few player comments about procurers.
Quote: Quite possibly the worst mining ship in the game next to the Rookie Ships, the Procurer-class is most commonly used as a component for building its Tech 2 counterpart, the Skiff. That said, if you have no other barges and can't find a battleship or mining cruiser, this ship will do in a pinch. Just....not that well.
Quote: Most people know the Procurer is outmined by an Osprey or Scythe.
But without MLU's, a procurer is outmined by a mere Bantam.
What was the creator of this ship smoking? Seriously, it's a mining barge, shouldn't it mine at least somewhat well?
Quote: Procurer is definitly the worst(ship in EVE), it's pretty easy to outmine it in any other mining ship.
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 21:24:00 -
[1610]
Originally by: sue denim u no just cause they costs 5-6b to build doesn't mean they're gonna cost that much :| MS' atm don't cost what they go for by a long shot and it doesn't seem like they're changing much in terms of production.
It depends.
Built and sold internally you might see a 10%-15% markup. So maybe 6-8b. I haven't seen the current build costs on SISI so I'm going by the quotes in this thread. And I suck at math.
Here's the point -> .
But you will not see them anywhere near 12b-16b.
Either way, why would someone fly a carrier with a base cost of, say, 1b when for a few more bil (a bil is the new 100m to many, especially those able to fly caps) you can have an omg-super-buffed station-hugging, ewar-immune, SC doing exactly what it was not ment to do- scouring lowsec. Capship killer? Heh.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:27:00 -
[1611]
Locking this thread.
There is a blog post out now about the changes coming in Dominion for capital ships. Read Capital Ships in Dominion and please keep comments to the comment thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073
We thank you all for your constructive feedback on this issue.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Aqua Tarkus
ZER0. IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:27:00 -
[1612]
New devblog is out. And that what we get:
Quote: Regrettably, we've come to the point where we can no longer commit to making Motherships the monsters they're supposed to be for Dominion. However, we are going to continue refining their schematics, keep our welding torches hot and you should see them undocking from the shipyards again once we and the community are happy with their balancing.
This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF FIGHTER BOMBERS WILL ALSO BE POSTPONED.
CCP Nozh
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:29:00 -
[1613]
7 days and no dev blog, whats going on ccp scared of what we might say? is this where you tell the carrier pilots that to keep the super carrier better then you we have given it not only the the fighter-bombers but only 10, so to make it better for them we will be removing 50% of your drone useage. -Or is it a case you don't know what to stay you know these super capital pilots are multipul account holders and your trying to work out the cost if they leave.
sure some will say let them go, lets think on this for a minute if the super carrier pilot only has 2 accounts then that a very small drop to ccp what if like me and they have more lets say 5 accounts thats 2000+ accounts still small, but what i find is most of these older players are also doing fc'ing, production, ceo/directors and they keep there corp/alliance running. also if like myself they have sold ETC then that can be an added impact to the game maybe only 1/4 sell ETC but thats still 100+ codes gone.
all we are asking now is to know what is going on and to be able to reply to your ideas sure it might be whinny some of it is good infomation that the dev might not have looked at.
so to ccp get your finger out and give us the information 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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