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Ko Shimin Minmatar Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.01.27 14:52:00 - [31] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Originally by: Ko Shimin [Wolf Fitting]...but for sure he ain't got a chance if he decides to stay and fight. Originally by: Ko Shimin Other frigate sized ships that can kill a dramiel: Navy Slicer, Daredevil, Taranis, Succubus, Claw, Ishkur and why not, even the Rifter? You clearly have no idea what are you talking about. There are only few frig sized ships that can kill properly fitted dramiel in 1v1, and its dramiel pilot who chooses if he want to engage that ships or not... Btw that wolf is lol, do you realize its slower than standard dominion vaga /2x poly/? How many dramiels have you lost? How many kills did you get in them? That wolf is lol? Then you know little about AFs, Jaguar and Wolf are the fastest AF's in EVE, but only marginally slower (wolf) or faster (jaguar) than the Vagabond. Get your Dramiel, I'll get my wolf and let's see who survives, if you choose to fight. But most probably you will not choose to fight.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2010.01.27 14:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Ko Shimin Get your Dramiel, I'll get my wolf and let's see who survives, if you choose to fight. But most probably you will not choose to fight. i think you have missed the piont of the thread a little. You cannot CATCH a dremiel in a wolf but maybe a jag with full tackle and a nuet. theres alot of ships that can match its damage and EHP/tank, but actually getting it to stay for long enough to finish the job is another matter, esp with the dual prop varietys.
achoura	Posted - 2010.01.27 15:31:00 - [33] Sentinel. They make dramiels cry but hardly anyone flies them. Idk, the iq of some people... They want to kill a cruier they take a curse, they want to kill a frig they don't even now a frig sized curse exists... *The EVE servers and their patches*
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.01.27 15:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Ko Shimin ...clueless bull****... I killed two, one in sader, one in succubus, both were failfits. Lost none, i actually never bothered to buy one as i dont like iwin buttons. Yes, the wolf fit you posted is lol, but for killing t1 fris is ok i guess. Ill tell you how will it end - you will be scrammed 5secs after the start of fight and after another 20secs you will die to rf fusion /you wont do any noticeable dps to dram, bec you have no web and no tracking bonus/. Btw i know that fit very good, some guy in fw used it, i poped it with harbi because he thought he can keep me tackled like inty. I think ill be able to solo it in ab sader. - no competent frig pilot will engage aml cara solo /maybe some confident vengeance or jag pilot can try it, bus some of caras fit med neut/ - dualprop dram can disengage easily from dessie and i think it will be able to solo trasher easily, it just outdpses it at scram range and has comparable buffer, if trasher doesnt fit web, it WILL outtrack 200mm acs
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.01.27 15:54:00 - [35] Ko Shimin, you use that Wolf fit and I use my standard Dramiel fit, let's have a 1on1. I'll even put...hmm...300m ISK on the fight. How about it? Should be easy money. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Raimo Gam3rs For Lif3	Posted - 2010.01.27 16:54:00 - [36] Edited by: Raimo on 27/01/2010 16:55:27 Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Originally by: CrazySpaceHobo Classic AML Caracal This will Kill it, For sure. I've taken orbiting intys into low-armor in one volley with this, it's comedy to see them try and flee once they realise they're done for. Dual-prop dramiel will just escape if it's going to lose - because this caracal doesn't have enough real dps to kill it fast. That's not the case for thrasher/sabre - they can't control distance but will pop dual-prop dramiel pretty fast, most likely before dramiel notices that it's too late. Navy caracal probably would work but OTOH I at least would bail at first sight of AML's OTOH :CVA: BTW, I too can take on the Wolf challenge ____________________________________________________________
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.01.27 16:58:00 - [37] Originally by: Raimo BTW, I too can take on the Wolf challenge Go away, I called it first. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Ammy Azimuth	Posted - 2010.01.27 17:15:00 - [38] Originally by: James Tritanius Your dramiel fit has dead-space prop mods and yet you don't allow faction items? Do you know the prices on those modules compared to faction scram/web? Deadspace AB/mwd are like 10m a piece, its cheap stuff. Faction scram/web can range anywhere from 40m-100m each. And this is the assault missile launcher caracal I'd try against a dramiel. [Caracal, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile //See here? Bait the dramiel with heavy missiles Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x2 Heavy missile baits the dramiel into scram range, at which point scram and double web ruin it. You can drop the large shield extender for a long range point to further bait them since it looks like you don't have a scram but thats riskier imo, not sure you got enough buffer, but you might.
Raimo Gam3rs For Lif3	Posted - 2010.01.27 17:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Ammy Azimuth Originally by: James Tritanius Your dramiel fit has dead-space prop mods and yet you don't allow faction items? Do you know the prices on those modules compared to faction scram/web? Deadspace AB/mwd are like 10m a piece, its cheap stuff. Faction scram/web can range anywhere from 40m-100m each. And this is the assault missile launcher caracal I'd try against a dramiel. [Caracal, New Setup 1] xxxxxxxxx Heavy missile baits the dramiel into scram range, at which point scram and double web ruin it. You can drop the large shield extender for a long range point to further bait them since it looks like you don't have a scram but thats riskier imo, not sure you got enough buffer, but you might. Reading comprehension please Originally by: Raimo OTOH :CVA: I'll spell it out: [Caracal, Veras's Caracal] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Invulnerability Field II Tracking Disruptor I,Optimal Range Disruption Medium Energy Neutralizer II Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II's at least doesn't work and BAWWW, Intigo ____________________________________________________________
Arrador	Posted - 2010.01.27 17:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Raimo I'll spell it out: [Caracal, Veras's Caracal] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Invulnerability Field II Tracking Disruptor I,Optimal Range Disruption Medium Energy Neutralizer II Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II's at least doesn't work and BAWWW, Intigo I'll point out and bold the fail: Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile

Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.01.27 17:30:00 - [41] And td and ccc... Btw guys im first to get killed by his wolf of doom.
Raimo Gam3rs For Lif3	Posted - 2010.01.27 17:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 And td and ccc... And hence :CVA: TBH it's still on the "right track" so to speak. IIRC the fight was pretty close so I guess with a proper fit I would have diaf'd, though in fights like that piloting skills and SP's do play a big factor as well... ____________________________________________________________
Arrador	Posted - 2010.01.27 18:27:00 - [43] [Caracal, Speedtank this] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Target Painter II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x2 Cheap, and effective. Hardest part about this fit is, finding a frigate class pilot dumb enough to engage you. Faction and/or javelin will work. DO NOT use fury. If you meet another cruiser or BC, swap to furies.
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.01.27 18:49:00 - [44] Originally by: Arrador [Caracal, Speedtank this] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Target Painter II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x2 Cheap, and effective. Hardest part about this fit is, finding a frigate class pilot dumb enough to engage you. Faction and/or javelin will work. DO NOT use fury. If you meet another cruiser or BC, swap to furies. No web = no way of stopping the dram from going 'oh, light missiles, welp' and disengaging. Drop the painter and one LSE for two webs, and once he gets within 13 km, he won't be getting out again.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:01:00 - [45] http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=25651&view=losses yes sure, dramiels are invincible.... (that also happens to be one of the best pvp'ers in eve) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:05:00 - [46] when it doubt doomsday it!
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:07:00 - [47] Originally by: adriaans http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=25651&view=losses yes sure, dramiels are invincible.... (that also happens to be one of the best pvp'ers in eve) oh, vagabond w/medium neut, is there any frig you can't kill? (rhetorical) ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:08:00 - [48] Originally by: adriaans http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=25651&view=losses yes sure, dramiels are invincible.... (that also happens to be one of the best pvp'ers in eve) note that the smallest number of ships used to kill him was 2, and the 2 ships were vagabonds. which kinda goes against the point of this thread.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:17:00 - [49] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: adriaans http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=25651&view=losses yes sure, dramiels are invincible.... (that also happens to be one of the best pvp'ers in eve) note that the smallest number of ships used to kill him was 2, and the 2 ships were vagabonds. which kinda goes against the point of this thread. people say they couldn't be killed, that was the quickest proof i could think of. in fact dramiel lossmails are littering killboards lately. (and if you look, you will see he hardly ever looses ships to single pilots) if people are incapable of soloing them or to figure out what to use that's hardly the ship being OP ;) (and can be done very cheaply) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:43:00 - [50] Originally by: adriaans people say they couldn't be killed, that was the quickest proof i could think of. in fact dramiel lossmails are littering killboards lately. (and if you look, you will see he hardly ever looses ships to single pilots) if people are incapable of soloing them or to figure out what to use that's hardly the ship being OP ;) (and can be done very cheaply) Anything can be killed, but it is like the nano-discussion or the AB-boost AF discussion; "Bring friends", "Use a Curse/Rapier/Hugginn", "Use ECM" etc., once that becomes the standard replies something is off. Reason why I at least call it OP/FoTM is that you need very specific fits or excessive fire-/manpower to kill them. Once that happens something is off. The only thing that keeps the Dramiel from being a critical issue is t1 resists and "only" moderate-to-high damage potential .. doesn't mean it shouldn't be toned down a tad

adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.01.27 19:52:00 - [51] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: adriaans people say they couldn't be killed, that was the quickest proof i could think of. in fact dramiel lossmails are littering killboards lately. (and if you look, you will see he hardly ever looses ships to single pilots) if people are incapable of soloing them or to figure out what to use that's hardly the ship being OP ;) (and can be done very cheaply) Anything can be killed, but it is like the nano-discussion or the AB-boost AF discussion; "Bring friends", "Use a Curse/Rapier/Hugginn", "Use ECM" etc., once that becomes the standard replies something is off. Reason why I at least call it OP/FoTM is that you need very specific fits or excessive fire-/manpower to kill them. Once that happens something is off. The only thing that keeps the Dramiel from being a critical issue is t1 resists and "only" moderate-to-high damage potential .. doesn't mean it shouldn't be toned down a tad you don't need anything above 30 mill to kill it... -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Darthewok Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.27 20:43:00 - [52] where is DRAMIEL-A-GEDDON when you need it?
Sig Sour	Posted - 2010.01.27 20:46:00 - [53] Thrasher
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.01.27 21:01:00 - [54] Originally by: Sig Sour Thrasher With arty, the fight will last 9.639 seconds. You can 2 shot them. Dream on noob...
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2010.01.27 21:13:00 - [55] Originally by: adriaans you don't need anything above 30 mill to kill it... Yea, for example drake costs almost nothing and can kill dramiel - but only if it will decide to attack drake and won't escape till the last bits of structure.
Bungo Brown Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.27 21:17:00 - [56] The best part about that killboard link is that the only frigate-sized ship involved in those kills was another Dramiel.
The AEther Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.01.27 21:24:00 - [57] Originally by: Ammy Azimuth Only thing I could come up with was a aml caracal using 1 heavy missile launcher to bait them into double web/scram range. Bc's, it can just disengage easy if things turn sour. Arbitrator with 2 webs works to kill Dramiels. Arbi being second slowest cruiser in game is not going to catch it however - but here is a trick: release some hobgoblin I or hammerhead I drones or even mining drones and watch the Dramiel swoop down to you.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2010.01.27 21:41:00 - [58] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 27/01/2010 21:41:48 Originally by: Bungo Brown The best part about that killboard link is that the only frigate-sized ship involved in those kills was another Dramiel. Speaking about rail daredevil, i dropped link to the guy who flies it just to be able to kill these new age gays - and he's pretty much successful in that.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.01.27 21:43:00 - [59] Nice tricks /launching t1 drones or fitting 1 hml/ heh. But even double webbed dramiel is faster than scrambled cruiser.
Kalexander	Posted - 2010.01.27 22:06:00 - [60] By the time a balance gets pushed through the pipeline we're going to be looking at Tech3 frigates anyway, and won't that just change the scope of this discussion entirely then? Take any class of ship and SOMETHING is at the top echelon of the weight class right? Thats kinda just the way it goes, so frigates crown goes to the dramiel. The good news about flavor of the month is, for ever one really bad ass dramiel pilot, theirs going to be 3 really crappy ones that you can kill in most anything so have at it.



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