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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.07 17:25:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Kismo ...
I think you ******ed but whatever, fly around kamela after downtime and maybe ill gank your trasher when ill be online. But ill probably kill you with sader, malediction or crow because i have no dram fitted and no intention of buying one.
Originally by: Proxyyyy ...
So you basically suggest ppl use afs/faction frigs without mwd /ab+web+scram = lose alot of versatility, not viable in 0.0/ to be able to catch and hold dualprop dramiel /i wont even start talking about armor tanked dram with td/.
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Kismo
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Posted - 2010.02.07 17:30:00 -
[422]
so basicly u r afraid 2 engage thasher and saber in ur dramil that u dont have got it why dont u shut up about thrasher and saber not having a chance with dramiel really the dramiel will leave the field or die and u cant prove me wrong and yes if u run then i won especially in a gang bcuz now ur gang is down 1 person
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.02.07 17:33:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Seishi Maru I repeat the fact that some firgates can avoid BS guns with dual props and slowly chew them is GOOD, because is the first thing against buffer tanks this game brings for a loooong time
Get more experiences flying frigates, this has been possible for years.
A fast single-prop AB frigate can go under battleship-size guns, cruiser-size guns and even many frig-size guns. You don't need a Dramiel to do so. In fact, I usually tracking tank dual-prop blaster Ranises in my AB Sader at close range. Funny stuff, especially because the Ranis pilots usually don't realize what is happening.
Additionally, that argument has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.
Quote: Get real! This is a non end nerf loop.Its not as you can have many roles beyond being fast on a frigate. Therefore the fastest frigate will always be nber.
You get real. Frigates used to be all nano. Now many frigates actually have something besides speed tank. Some are EW fitted, some have buffers, some have active tanks. Some frigates excel at getting the tackle, some excel at maintaining the tackle, some excel at engaging at edge of disruptor range, some excel at going close in. There are many rock-paper-scissor mechanisms at work that make many choice viable. There is just one frig to rule them all.
Beign possible.. and being extensively done are completely different things. Being possible makes nothign to chanvge the perception of larger ships about how to tank. BEign done in large quanityt makes a lot to achieve that!
And frigates are still ALL about speed. Their main defense and offesne is speed even on the slowest of them. Exact oposite from battleships where a SINGLE battleship is fast enough to use speed as defense. Speed in inherently crutial for frigates, so that the fastest one will always be the best one or very close to it.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.02.07 17:36:00 -
[424]
Originally by: Kismo so basicly u r afraid 2 engage thasher and saber in ur dramil that u dont have got it why dont u shut up about thrasher and saber not having a chance with dramiel really the dramiel will leave the field or die and u cant prove me wrong and yes if u run then i won especially in a gang bcuz now ur gang is down 1 person
Maybe your parents should spend more money on a better school rather than paying to let you play this game.
By the way, dramiel is fine. You keep ****ting on about 'counters' and when you're given one, you say 'why do we specifically have to counter this ship?'. You're only shooting yourself in the foot here. ___
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.07 17:39:00 -
[425]
Originally by: Kismo so basicly u r afraid 2 engage thasher and saber in ur dramil that u dont have got it why dont u shut up about thrasher and saber not having a chance with dramiel really the dramiel will leave the field or die and u cant prove me wrong and yes if u run then i won especially in a gang bcuz now ur gang is down 1 person
Yes, you confirmed again that you are incompetent, not surprising for me.
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Kismo
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Posted - 2010.02.07 17:41:00 -
[426]
Edited by: Kismo on 07/02/2010 17:44:55 i hav no foot 2 shoot bcuz i dnt fly dramie i just think lulzgartziel666 wont fly a dramie against me bcuz he nos i am rite a thasher or saber can kll drmiel but ev1 sayz i kill thrasher all day in dmril but they shoot noobs with their lots of sp no wonder they wood win in a breacher or bantam
Look man: You think I am incompetent. Fine. Try to prove it to me instead of hiding behind a FW blob biatch and I'll bend your Dramiel over a table.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.07 18:02:00 -
[427]
Damn Prox, you need to practice condensing your thoughts down a little more
Originally by: Proxyyyy Merdaneth you fly the best close range sader fit ingame imo and can take out many other ceptors and t1 frigs. So why are you engaging drams? Im sure u know your ships limitations..
I think the answer is the same for all of us: to test the limits, find a challenge and have fun. There is a limit to how many Rifters, Taranis's et al. one can kill before the blood stops pumping and it becomes routine.
Originally by: Proxyyyy Ive engaged many drams and have only lost once to a armor tanked version while the rest just got away because of speedz!
And that is exactly the problem. Dramiel can engage and disengage at will, it has more than enough tank/speed to to carry it through and survive if it encounters anything that might theoretically kill it.
The other pirate frigates are nicely focused; Daredevil does damage and tons of it, Cruor ***** slaps your capacitor - then kills you and the Worm can tank like a mofo while letting drones/lol-rocks do their thing. Dramiel has cap equal or higher to Amarr AF, highest speed by far, medium/high damage, high EHP, drones, four mid-slots etc.
It simply has too much of everything. No focus like the others.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.02.07 18:13:00 -
[428]
Particularly i think droens are not very angel style. Dramiel could loose ALL drones get a SLIGHT boost on turret damage to compensate a part of that drone damage. And it woudl be quite balanced. At least woudl be an upgraded rep firetail....
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.07 18:14:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
The other pirate frigates are nicely focused; Daredevil does damage and tons of it, Cruor ***** slaps your capacitor - then kills you and the Worm can tank like a mofo while letting drones/lol-rocks do their thing.
I kindly request actually useful fits for the Cruor, Worm, and Succubus. Most of the time I feel like I'm paying 50-100M for worse than T2. To me the Worm feels like a really ****ty combination of the Hawk and Ishkur.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.02.07 18:24:00 -
[430]
Why don't we just get ccp to nerf it huh? Huh? |
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.07 19:51:00 -
[431]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I kindly request actually useful fits for the Cruor, Worm, and Succubus. Most of the time I feel like I'm paying 50-100M for worse than T2. To me the Worm feels like a really ****ty combination of the Hawk and Ishkur.
Worse than t2... okay. Worm - let's see after rockets changes, but with which ships you compared other two? You know, i don't see similar t2 ships at all. Sentinel and cruor have completely different concept, and succubus is better than retribution for PvP only because it has more than 1 med slot (though i still don't think that these 2 are comparable directly).
And i hope you remember that pirate ships are intended to have the same performance as t2, maybe slightly better. Only 90% web of cruor is big advantage over sentinel, which should be compensated in other areas.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.07 20:02:00 -
[432]
This is what you get when you try to make succubus do what dualprop dram can. Import to eft and lol:
[Succubus, Succubus1] Damage Control II Heat Sink II
Coreli B-Type 1MN Afterburner Medium Shield Extender II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I [empty high slot]
Small Ancillary Current Router II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Small Core Defence Field Extender I
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.07 20:30:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Worse than t2... okay. Worm - let's see after rockets changes
You do realize that the Worm has effectively unbonused high slots right? Longer ranged rockets... WHEEE because they're such damage power houses even if you neglect that they don't actually deal any damage.
Quote: Sentinel and cruor have completely different concept
Yeah, and I'd take a Sentinel over a Cruor every time. If I bothered to take a Sentinel at all. "Different concept" != "useful concept".
Quote: succubus is better than retribution for PvP only because it has more than 1 med slot
Fantastic, it's better than the worst ship in the worst class in game. Yeah baby that really says something its awesome!
Quote: And i hope you remember that pirate ships are intended to have the same performance as t2, maybe slightly better. Only 90% web of cruor is big advantage over sentinel, which should be compensated in other areas.
Pirate faction frigates that aren't any better than T2 are UTTERLY USELESS. They're nothing more than expensive fancy death traps - which is exactly what they were before. That was the point of the boost.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Kirzath
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2010.02.07 20:49:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 This is what you get when you try to make succubus do what dualprop dram can. Import to eft and lol:
[Succubus, Suckubus] snip
Your mistake is trying to get the Succubus to do what the Dramiel does. They fill different roles.
[Succubus, Doing It Right] Damage Control II Heat Sink II
Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner Medium Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Small Nosferatu II Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Core Defence Field Extender I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defence Field Extender I
In fact, this Succubus fit would actually win versus a Dramiel if it wanders in close to commit to the fight.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.07 20:58:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Kirzath [Succubus, Doing It Right]
GL dying in first bubblecamp.
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Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.02.07 21:10:00 -
[436]
Edited by: Cearain on 07/02/2010 21:10:50 As has been pointed out a daredevil is likely just as good as a dramiel. The other priate ships may need a boost. But this is ignored.
When people say they can't kill dramiels in their cruisers unless they fit them for it, they are leaving out the fact that most dramiels will not be able to beat a cruiser either. At least not if the cruiser has *any* concern that it might have to fight a frig. Sure if you catch a long range caracal you can kill it but you can kill that in a rifter.
No one can deny a dramiel is not a great gang ship. It's only really worth the money solo. And no you don't see more dramiels than you see jags wolfs or any of the top tier t1 frigs in fw (at least on the amarr minnie front.)
If you fly a dramiel you will find many vexors and other ships eager to engage you. Lots of people like to kill them.
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.07 21:29:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Liang Nuren You do realize that the Worm has effectively unbonused high slots right? Longer ranged rockets... WHEEE because they're such damage power houses even if you neglect that they don't actually deal any damage.
I bet you know which changes ccp is going to introduce for rockets? Mind sharing?
Originally by: Liang Nuren Yeah, and I'd take a Sentinel over a Cruor every time. If I bothered to take a Sentinel at all. "Different concept" != "useful concept".
At least you admit they're different. Anyhow, cruor has 90% web and solid butt, as a tradeoff for longer range neut and different way of inflicting damage. Overall - slightly better than t2 for some purposes.
Originally by: Liang Nuren Fantastic, it's better than the worst ship in the worst class in game. Yeah baby that really says something its awesome!
It's not me who started to drop references to that dev blog. Succubus is slightly (or even much) better than retribution, period :P design specifications are met.
Originally by: Liang Nuren Pirate faction frigates that aren't any better than T2 are UTTERLY USELESS. They're nothing more than expensive fancy death traps - which is exactly what they were before. That was the point of the boost.
Again, i succubus worse than a retribution and is cruor worse than a sentinel? How do you compare them - any specific methods?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.07 21:58:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess I bet you know which changes ccp is going to introduce for rockets? Mind sharing?
The most likely changes to roflkets are boosts to explo radius/velocity. And as I was saying - even if rockets hit perfectly it wouldn't make the Worm worth using over an Ishkur. But in reality this is the boost I expect for roflkets in the next year: - Nothing - Nothing - And more nothing
Quote: At least you admit they're different. Anyhow, cruor has 90% web and solid butt, as a tradeoff for longer range neut and different way of inflicting damage. Overall - slightly better than t2 for some purposes.
A 90% web/nuet amount bonus is fantastic.... just not on a frigate. And they didn't give it to the ship that it would have been most useful on.
Quote: It's not me who started to drop references to that dev blog. Succubus is slightly (or even much) better than retribution, period :P design specifications are met. ... Again, i succubus worse than a retribution and is cruor worse than a sentinel? How do you compare them - any specific methods?
Except that they isn't only compared to the Retribution and Sentinel. They're also compared to the Taranis, Crusader, Ishkur, and Jag too. Oh wait... would I take a Succubus/Cruor over one of those? **** no. If it isn't flat out superior to at least one of the "top tier" T2 frigs, its nothing but an overly expensive death trap.
And on the subject of a Cruor vs Sentinel - the long range neut on the Sentinel >>>>>>>>> 90% web. Good luck MWDing with no cap.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
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Posted - 2010.02.07 22:15:00 -
[439]
The performance of all solo/small gang ships can be evaluated by the following criterion's:
1. DPS 2. Ability to break the tank of the opponent while keeping own tank intact (evading/tanking incoming fire) 3. Ability to catch and deny the opponent the chance to disengage. 4. Chance to disengage when facing unfavorable odds, including gate-camps. 5. Cost
The survivability of the Dramiel combined with its high utility DPS puts it a bit in a class of its own. Several of the other pirate ships don't even get close. There is no special role outside the above criterion's, imo.
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.07 22:24:00 -
[440]
Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 07/02/2010 22:24:56
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote: At least you admit they're different. Anyhow, cruor has 90% web and solid butt, as a tradeoff for longer range neut and different way of inflicting damage. Overall - slightly better than t2 for some purposes.
A 90% web/nuet amount bonus is fantastic.... just not on a frigate. And they didn't give it to the ship that it would have been most useful on.
Hey, but generally used fit of cruor can counter dramiel (like many guys suggest it here), while sentinel most likely will have to retreat because of empty drones supply/low hp (dramiel has nice falloff and drones which will hit sentinel more or less reliably). That is, we have brand new role for cruor: countering dramiel (again, this is new role of frigate-sized vessels in addition to other two). Great.
Originally by: Liang Nuren Except that they isn't only compared to the Retribution and Sentinel. They're also compared to the Taranis, Crusader, Ishkur, and Jag too. Oh wait... would I take a Succubus/Cruor over one of those? **** no. If it isn't flat out superior to at least one of the "top tier" T2 frigs, its nothing but an overly expensive death trap.
So basically you want pirate frigates to be better than best t2 frigates in most of the roles. I don't find this rational; they can be on par in broad range of the situations, and maybe better in only small percentage of them.
Originally by: Liang Nuren And on the subject of a Cruor vs Sentinel - the long range neut on the Sentinel >>>>>>>>> 90% web. Good luck MWDing with no cap.
I didn't suggest to compare them in sentinel vs cruor fight. Actually, i discouraged making any parallels between these two.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.07 22:45:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Pirate faction frigates that aren't any better than T2 are UTTERLY USELESS.
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess So basically you want pirate frigates to be better than best t2 frigates in most of the roles.
He forgot that 'T2' isnt only ishkur and jag. Another thing is, that worm is just fail and even buffed rockets wont help it much. And dram is just other league...
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Onin Ra
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.07 23:17:00 -
[442]
Oh man, the amount of clueless people and trolls in this thread is astonishing ^^ Someone even suggested a Navy Comet to counter a dram lol, Navy Comet is basicly a copy of Taranis with extra low slot you can't fit **** in cause of CPU.
Proxyyyy you just typed a wall of text and basicly confirmed what Merdaneath was saying ;)
I remember people from 0.0 were usually saying how FW sucks cause everyone flies t1 rifters and other cheap ****, but lo and behold, the amount of Dramiel pilots in FW is ridicilous, tried plexing for a laugh and wouldnt you guess who arrived, 3 dramiels, my mate was a in a Dramiel himself. I seriously don't believe the defenders of this clearly OP ship can be serious. They are trolling. They can't be so clueless, noway in hell. --- First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.07 23:23:00 -
[443]
Originally by: Onin Ra I remember people from 0.0 were usually saying how FW sucks cause everyone flies t1 rifters and other cheap ****, but lo and behold, the amount of Dramiel pilots in FW is ridicilous, tried plexing for a laugh and wouldnt you guess who arrived, 3 dramiels, my mate was a in a Dramiel himself.
Even in 0.0 you see them really often. Here's (translated) quote by my friend (who has nothing against dramiels in general and just was travelling from Spire to Venal):
[ 2010.02.07 21:59:41 ] TROUB1 > it's ****ing dramielling here [ 2010.02.07 21:59:49 ] TROUB1 > i already counted 8 drams in just 25 jumps
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Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.08 00:10:00 -
[444]
Edited by: Proxyyyy on 08/02/2010 00:10:36 Onin Ra I dont agree bro! I remember having a convo with you about the ranis and claw and how you felt it was overpowered etc. I then suggest a alternative to the setup your use to, which was the rail ranis. the claw has its weaknesses and i was guessing you came to that conclusion after engaging proz who will more than confirm the claws weaknesses. My bro annie flies the rail ranis and has no trouble taking out any other ceptor ingame including the 400mm plate claw. But you came to the conclusion that the ranis sucks and is now out classed my minmatar whatever! You didnt want to adapt or atleast was not open to the use of a rail ranis or even doubted it could work even though it does.
I dont need to tell you how to fly your ships or how to fit them because your a good pilot period...
But im not sure why you like many others quickly decide that a ship or weapon system is overpowered without trying to find a more well rounded fit that can do what you do generaly and counter something your not incline to face. I have no fear in space and will engage just about anything, many know that! Im also open to any new fits or concepts just to understand my own ships limitations and strength not bias's. Merdaneath knows his limitions but went after a dram anyways and he's now on the "over powered" train when a 200mm/Repper claw or 400mmplate claw with or without a ab can take him out everytime! Why didnt he come to the conclusion that the claw is omg overpowered?
Anyways Merdaneath here is something that can eat a dram and most af's but cant hold a dram down and is a amarr ship btw = ) [Imperial Navy Slicer, Look into the light!] 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Adaptive Nano Plating II Small Armor Repairer II F85 Peripheral Damage System I Heat Sink II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Gatling Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I Small Energy Locus Coordinator I
Yeah a sentinal can take out a curor and daredevil but against a worm or dram i doubt it! Anyways the cruor daredevil can preform just as well against most targets not just the dram. In frig combat what non pirate faction ships can realy beat them? imo maybe 1 or 3. Pretty much alot of dudes are more incline to whine than actually go out and test new setups or try new things at all! In eve there are Innovators and imitators. Most pilots wait till someone good who is not inclined to just brand a ship "garbage" and try the thing then when it produces great results the sheep jump on the train then start talking about how good the ship is. Not to mention thoughs who are not quick to adapt to new changes will always be left behind asking for something to be nerfed or boosted! What if i just started linking pilots that fly worms, daredevils and curor's destroying drams and other frigs would that help? Cause there are btw...
Adapt or be destroyed...
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 00:10:00 -
[445]
Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 08/02/2010 00:12:55 I think it's fine.
It isn't the be all and end all frigate. It is the Vagabond of the frigate world.
It's expensive.
But you know what, as a lot of quiet uber people here have mentioned, like Raimo, it finally gives plays one (and only one really) little ship that can almost play the little nano game again against other ships.
and you know what, let it be.
It's nice to find 1 little tiny fragile ship that doesn't get bbq'd everytime it fights and gives the pilot options for escape.
There are loads of ships that are completely op. Curse. Vindicator. Rook. Broadsword. There isn't much call to nerf these ships.
Can't you guys just accept that the Cylon Raider is just the coolest little frigate in the game, cost ****loads for what it is and is fun to fly.
HTFU.
I think it's great. I want more pirate frigates and pirate ships used in PVP. It's cool. Embrace the fact that it's a cool ship and stop moaning.
I hope next time I go out I get blasted to dust by one
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.08 00:27:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Proxyyyy ...
I can see you understand frigate fights perfectly, but still some of your fits are... weird. Claw vs ranis - everyone knows it, its about neut and buffer to cap out target, if you are flying into neut range vs claw, its your decision.
And that slicer you posted would just die to a dramiel /how cant you see it?/. Dramiel can get under 200mm tracking bonused acs on trasher, orbiting under lasers would be easier /or maybe 4k-4,5k so he will have to use scorch with tracking penalty and you wont shoot out of orbit so much/.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 01:25:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 08/02/2010 00:36:52 quote] Ok, no idea why you think rook, broadsword or curse are op /lets say curse its - i like it - but rook and broadsword? lol/. But about all other 'op' pirate ships i can tell you - they are rare. You wont see /or engage/ them every day. But dramiels - they are everywhere and its getting worse.
If you agree and say the Curse is Op, then I would argue that the Rook is very much every bit as dangerous a ship to encounter. The method of arse raping you is different, but the result is very similar.
Broadsword is arguable THE best Hictor, what with it having higher dps than Onyx, same tank, more agility, projectile buff etc etc etc etc.
My point is that there are plenty of ships that are pretty uber in their class. With MASSIVE advantages over most ships they engage. To the point where really, the reason you DON'T fly them is you don't have the racial ship skill to do so. The reason they don't get nerfed is that they have a counter.
To be honest, you can kill a Dramiel if you just neut it to crap no? Surely a curse can just bbq the dam thing.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.08 01:51:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Proxyyyy ...
I can see you understand frigate fights perfectly, but still some of your fits are... weird.
If you think some of his fits are...weird, you should try spending some time with him on vent.
Just wanted to post to:
a) be in an epic nerf thread b) say that I didn't realize how many whiny "PvPers" EVE had accumulated over the past two years
PS - I <3 Prox and never underestimate the guy or you'll look stupid ingame as well as on the forums.
That is all.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.02.08 01:56:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Broadsword is arguable THE best Hictor, what with it having higher dps than Onyx, same tank, more agility, projectile buff etc etc etc etc.
What are you smoking? Not that dps matters on a HIC, but in fact the Onyx gets same dps than the Broadsword, with better range and no falloff penalty.
It has a better tank, SAME agility, etc etc etc etc.
You are right about it having no projectile buff though
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 02:21:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 08/02/2010 01:56:46
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Broadsword is arguable THE best Hictor, what with it having higher dps than Onyx, same tank, more agility, projectile buff etc etc etc etc.
What are you smoking? Not that dps matters on a HIC, but in fact the Onyx gets same dps as the Broadsword, with better range and no falloff penalty.
It has a better tank, SAME agility, etc etc etc etc.
You are right about it having no projectile buff though
It's 2 am. I'm at work. I'm pretty tired. You're wrong though, the Broadsword is better. I'm not going to check and come back with anything to disagree with you like numbers from eft or whatever. Just believe me. I mean, you can argue that it uses the Rupture hull, rather than the Moa. That alone justifies what I'm saying. You know I'm right.
Regardless of any of that. Dramiel doesn't need nerfing, you bunch of ****ing cowards.
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