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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
AmIDeadyet
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Posted - 2010.03.11 07:32:00 -
[571]
WTB Anti Dramiel Thrasher fit. I lost an AC thrasher to a double (yes double) MSE fit. Wasn't even close.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:38:00 -
[572]
 Originally by: Guillame Herschel
It's agility is actually in line with all other frigates. But its mass is only 700,000 kg. That is why it flies so fast on a MWD. Even with the MWD mass penalty, it is still less massive than almost every interceptor, before the MWD mass penalty is added.
You are talking about the inertia modifier, as I understand it agility is a function of mass and inertia.
So with lower mass and equal inertia a Dramiel does have better agility .. provided I am not mistaken about the relationship between inertia, mass and agility that is 
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:46:00 -
[573]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
It's agility is actually in line with all other frigates. But its mass is only 700,000 kg. That is why it flies so fast on a MWD. Even with the MWD mass penalty, it is still less massive than almost every interceptor, before the MWD mass penalty is added.
You are talking about the inertia modifier, as I understand it agility is a function of mass and inertia.
So with lower mass and equal inertia a Dramiel does have better agility .. provided I am not mistaken about the relationship between inertia, mass and agility that is
Yep agility=mass*inertia the lower the better.
Btw dramiels inertia is not inline with the other pirate frigs,it has about 20% advantage here too ,adding its low mass and you get an op agility/velocity.
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FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.12 08:57:00 -
[574]
AAA found a Dramiel Counter 
Furthermore, you're already reading my sig |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.12 09:14:00 -
[575]
Originally by: FlameGlow
AAA found a Dramiel Counter
Hahahahahahahahaha. Was only a matter of time 
Best one yet.
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Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2010.03.12 09:55:00 -
[576]
Originally by: FlameGlow
AAA found a Dramiel Counter
very nice, now we just need that counter on stand by, one for every dram out there!
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Songbird
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Posted - 2010.03.20 12:30:00 -
[577]
it's a minmatar offspring so I can see the speed, agility and low mass.But FFS - the drones are just too much.
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MaraudR73
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Posted - 2010.03.20 13:00:00 -
[578]
Jup, Drones should definitly be removed.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.03.20 15:26:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Songbird
it's a minmatar offspring so I can see the speed, agility and low mass.But FFS - the drones are just too much.
It's also gallente, drones are the only thing that makes it not solely better minmatar. I'll repeat my choices, lose one high slot, the missile point, and one midslot, that's all
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Songbird
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Posted - 2010.03.22 21:55:00 -
[580]
Gallente don't have a real drone frigate, untill you hit t2, so I still think it should lose all the drones. It's DPS is too high as it is. And BTW proteus is gallente and it cannot field 5 heavy drones , what kind of **** is that.
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drivinggod
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2010.03.23 02:25:00 -
[581]
Edited by: drivinggod on 23/03/2010 02:25:32
Originally by: Orfhlaith
I have said it before. This is a simple fix. 1 less mid slot for the dram. It forces a dram pilot to either dual prop and no MSE or single prop and MSE. they could still run if the go dual prop, or the could tank if they go single prop and MSE. They just cant do both like they can now. Or they could do both without a scram in which case they arent as effective as they are now. Solves alot of problems and doesnt nerf the dram. Just forces choices
This. If its going to be changed, this is how it should be.
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.23 05:04:00 -
[582]
Dramiel Counter.
I know that people will say that the ships used vs those 2 Dramiels where the exact perfect mix, but if you want to kill em, that's how you do it.
By the way, we were roaming and these 2 tried to grab one of our Recons that was scouting. Guess what? Didn't work that well for them.
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+15% to railguns' dmg modifier
-reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70%
+10% to Caldari railboats PG |
Sargon I
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Posted - 2010.03.23 07:59:00 -
[583]
It also needs its scan res brought more in line with t1 frigates. It has higher scan res than interceptors presently and that's just stupid. Who at CCP thought ceptors needed a giant crap taken on them?
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.03.23 09:25:00 -
[584]
Bastards don't want to engage my dual web dual neut cane. 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.23 10:30:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
I know that people will say that the ships used vs those 2 Dramiels where the exact perfect mix, but if you want to kill em, that's how you do it.
By the way, we were roaming and these 2 tried to grab one of our Recons that was scouting. Guess what? Didn't work that well for them.
Three Recons, a HAC and the token Interceptor to kill 2 T1 frigates .. I liked doomsday mail better
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Bastards don't want to engage my dual web dual neut cane.
Do you remember to cycle stomping grounds regularly?
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achoura
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Posted - 2010.03.23 10:50:00 -
[586]
I wonder how many of the people raving in this thread have forgotten what all faction ships are built to be. They may be frigs but they follow the same lines as the cruisers and bs. Every week someone comes along complaining about the bhaalgorns neuts, vindis 90% web and insane dps, machs still damage and huge scan res and how they're overpowered compared to the t1 bs (oh you think  ).
Angle ships are simply the easiest to fly. They combine speed, rage and high hp which with most people shield skill make them the easiest to fly. Usually making the effort to adapt to a different faction although it's odd that the chief complaint that the frig which costs triple what a t2 frig costs, is that it performs better. People complain about damage yet completely ignore the true dps frig (daredevil). Haven't seen many people complaining about my 380 dps frig because the dramiel doing 180 in falloff is so ott!
And before someone with too much eve time thinks up a witty retort, the original complaint in his thread is can kill t2 frigs with ease and faction ones too, yet I've seen plenty die, heck I've seen one die to a curor. Learn how to fly, learn how to fit and use your ships effectively. A faction bs will kill a t2 bs every-time, a faction cruiser will kill a hac every-time, a faction frig should kill a t2 frig every-time but so many people still seem to be incapable to using them correctly.
@ the op. "Stupid that you gotta use really expensive ship/faction gear to guarantee the one, but its a very effective ship."
So, it's "stupid" that you have to use a faction ship, ships by design that are superior to t2, to kill a faction ship? Would you expect a t2 cruiser to kill a faction cruiser? Or would you take a t2 bs to fight a faction bs? You seem to either be oblivious to the design goals of faction ships, or chose to be for the same of your argument which would be more viable fi there weren't so many dead dramiels on so many kill boards. In fairness, they're mostly copycats that don't know how to use frigs but then, that's the problem here.
***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2010.03.23 14:10:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Bastards don't want to engage my dual web dual neut cane.
Try triple web Celestis 
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:34:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Three Recons, a HAC and the token Interceptor to kill 2 T1 frigates .. I liked doomsday mail better
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Bastards don't want to engage my dual web dual neut cane.
Just wanted to say 2x webs = dead Dramiel, that's all.
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+15% to railguns' dmg modifier
-reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70%
+10% to Caldari railboats PG |
Miss Chardalane
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Posted - 2010.03.23 19:48:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Just wanted to say 2x webs = dead Dramiel, that's all.
Double web and out pimp them
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JASON W0RTHING
future of humankind
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Posted - 2010.03.24 12:17:00 -
[590]
I just got my first Dram km. I killed it in a WH PvE fitted drake. Fail Dram pilot is fail. After that fight I am of the opinion that CCP should leave the Dram as is so I can improve my KB efficiency. (which is awful)
P.S. I also podded him.
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Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2010.03.25 02:03:00 -
[591]
If im paying 70mil for a frig, 35mil in rigs, 35 for dg scram, 15 for ab and 15 for mwd.....its not overpowered, if anything it should be bumped uptoo 140-150mil for the ship itself.
Even the daredevil....if that was as fast as the dram it would be classed as overpowered. Every faction frig is good at something.
Daredevil - Raw omgwtf its a 500dps frig
Dram - Holy****, that just disengaed when duel webbed
Worm - Why does that hawk have 5 drones?
Crour - Coooool, my cap just got nuked and why am i only going 20m/s?
Think im missed an amarr one out
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Th0rG0d
Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2010.03.25 03:57:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Miss Chardalane
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Just wanted to say 2x webs = dead Dramiel, that's all.
Double web and out pimp them
Wait... what the hell was in his drone bay? T1 Hobs?! I don't even put those in t1 frigs anymore 
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Adrift in New Eden
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.25 06:28:00 -
[593]
Originally by: Gibbo3771
If im paying 70mil for a frig, 35mil in rigs, 35 for dg scram, 15 for ab and 15 for mwd.....its not overpowered, if anything it should be bumped uptoo 140-150mil for the ship itself.
Price argument died a long time ago, do try to keep up
Originally by: Gibbo3771
Even the daredevil....if that was as fast as the dram it would be classed as overpowered. Every faction frig is good at something.
Daredevil - Raw omgwtf its a 500dps frig
Dram - Holy****, that just disengaed when duel webbed
Worm - Why does that hawk have 5 drones?
Crour - Coooool, my cap just got nuked and why am i only going 20m/s?
Think im missed an amarr one out
Daredevil can be easily be defeated using drones/neut, cap dependent weapons are a ***** these days. Sacrifices have to be made to maximize performance.
Worm pilots should remain docked until the hull is fixed, utterly useless. Decent tank does not a frig make.
Cruor: see Daredevil.
Succubus, haven't seen one of these since patch. Completely outclassed by the revamped Daredevil, Dramiel and Cruor. It has no niche at all and mediocre performance overall.
I think everyone agrees that they should all be good at something, problem is that the Dramiel covers ALL bases: speed, fitting, damage, agility, lock-speed, drones, slot layout, tank .. the works. It has no downside whatsoever other than being a frigate.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.25 06:35:00 -
[594]
Originally by: achoura
I wonder how many of the people raving in this thread have forgotten what all faction ships are built to be. They may be frigs but they follow the same lines as the cruisers and bs. Every week someone comes along complaining about the bhaalgorns neuts, vindis 90% web and insane dps, machs still damage and huge scan res and how they're overpowered compared to the t1 bs (oh you think ).
Except people don't complain about those ships. Well, I'm sure someone does, but that's just the usual clueless whining that every ship gets occasionally (OMFG ROCKET HAWK IS OVERPOWERED NERF IT NOW!!!!).
Like it or not:
Faction frigates are approximately equal to T2 frigates, possibly a bit better but not by a decisive margin.
Faction cruisers are approximately equal to T2 cruisers, possibly a bit better but not by a decisive margin.
Faction battleships are approximately equal to what a T2 battleship would be if CCP actually released a pure combat battleship instead of black ops and the ultimate carebear ships.
The only faction ship that is massively better than T2 is the Dramiel. Do you see a problem here?
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.03.25 06:58:00 -
[595]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
The only faction ship that is massively better than T2 is the Dramiel. Do you see a problem here?
We all see it, but the exceptionally terrible pilots really don't want their latest iwin button to be balanced with the other pirate frigates.
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:26:00 -
[596]
Edited by: Sarah Norbulk on 25/03/2010 08:27:48
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Faction frigates are approximately equal to T2 frigates, possibly a bit better but not by a decisive margin.
The only faction ship that is massively better than T2 is the Dramiel. Do you see a problem here?
I would just like to pont out that people seriously overlook the Daredevil. It is significantly better than it's t2 counterpart the Taranis. It has more DPS, more EHP, more speed, better range, can fit a Nos, and has a 90% web.
Granted due to issues with the availability of Serpentis BPCs the price is significantly higher than the Dramiel so you don't see as many.
It seems with all the nerf Dram threads that the poor Daredevil isn't getting the credit it deserves for being possibly the best dogfighter in the game. I <3 my Daredevil.
Edit: Fixed formatting failure. 
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chrisss0r
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:35:00 -
[597]
Edited by: chrisss0r on 25/03/2010 08:35:54
i spent billions on my snakes, my faction overdrives/nanos and my polycarbs so it's just fair if my curse goes 10 km/s and ****s everything without even a small chance of dieing.
OH wrong year
Dramiel is fine, i pay more so it's just fine if i can by kinda invincible!
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.25 09:25:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Granted due to issues with the availability of Serpentis BPCs the price is significantly higher than the Dramiel so you don't see as many.
Availability of LP/BPCs does influence price but not frequency by nearly as much as you'd imagine. ISK is only ever a factor in extreme cases (ie. collector ships).
Reason why Daredevils are not blotting out the suns in a similar fashion is that even though they are exceptional at holding something down while they massacre it, they are very vulnerable while doing so.
Three mid-slots and a cap dependent system makes the list of available targets fairly small since a single small neut with sufficient EHP is enough to ruin a Daredevil's day, whereas the steps you have to take to counter a Dramiel are beyond the normal realm of "reasonable sacrifice" hence all the lol-killmails with small gun BS and such killing them.
Summary: Daredevil = focused, balanced and Dramiel not so much.
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