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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:03:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa [Cruor, gtc-Style]
Where this guy flies his ships?
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Aurora IV
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:46:00 -
[152]
Dramiel isn't the problem, dual prop mods are. It makes an already versitile ship, even more survivable.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.01.30 20:08:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I've taken down two Dramiels on seperate occasions in different circumstances with my Cruor.
The fit isn't too far off from Proxyyyy's, but it's a tad unique and it flows well for a frigate.
[Cruor, Siigari-Style]
Couldn't you replace everything except the web with T2 or named and you'd still have the most important feature of the Cruor - really strong webbing - intact, and save enough isk to buy like 10 more cruors? Doesn't seem like most of the faction/storyline gear on that is really doing any good ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Xavier Maroquin
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:24:00 -
[154]
Quote: Auto thrasher, is somewhat questionable, and while yes it is a frigate mowing machine, I don't see anyway that it will be able to keep the dramiel in range. Dramiel is still faster and the auto thrasher would take some time to kill the dramiel. At least 20-30 seconds based on what I calculated. Good dramiel imo would orbit at like 15km and see if the thrasher can hit it, if it can't or does very little its prolly auto fit, and you should not engage, if it can hit its prolly artie and you can destroy it.
So fit one arty so they think you have an arty fit and when they get close chew them up.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:49:00 -
[155]
Quote: Auto thrasher, is somewhat questionable, and while yes it is a frigate mowing machine, I don't see anyway that it will be able to keep the dramiel in range. Dramiel is still faster and the auto thrasher would take some time to kill the dramiel. At least 20-30 seconds based on what I calculated. Good dramiel imo would orbit at like 15km and see if the thrasher can hit it, if it can't or does very little its prolly auto fit, and you should not engage, if it can hit its prolly artie and you can destroy it.
Well, i dont know who am i quoting.
But to make it clear to ppl who are basing their statements on bull**** they read on forums or eft or whatever - when you are engaging trasher in dramiel, you always have speed advantage and you can control range /even webbed/. You also have 7k ehp, buffer thats close to buffer of mse trasher and that means you are NOT going to die in seconds like some ppl say here.
You have enough time to 'test' target trasher and disengage when you think he will be able to kill you first /disengaging from trasher is perfectly possible even with ab sader that goes around 1,6k and has 3,7k buffer/. Dont forget you are engaging him at 9k where he can be doing around 100dps /7k buffer and 100 dps = 70s/. You only approach to close orbit when you encounter mse trasher without neut /you can see rockets flying around but not able to hit you at 9k orbit/, while approaching you can take alot of damage, but once you are in close orbit he cant do anything.
Btw by fitting faction point or overheating it for whole duration of fight /possible/ you can lower its dps even more /keep in mind that 90% trasher pilots use trimarks, not damage rig and ambits, so you are actually outdpsing it at 10k/.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.01.31 01:41:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I've taken down two Dramiels on seperate occasions in different circumstances with my Cruor.
The fit isn't too far off from Proxyyyy's, but it's a tad unique and it flows well for a frigate.
[Cruor, Siigari-Style]
Couldn't you replace everything except the web with T2 or named and you'd still have the most important feature of the Cruor - really strong webbing - intact, and save enough isk to buy like 10 more cruors? Doesn't seem like most of the faction/storyline gear on that is really doing any good
Perhaps, however this fit optimizes the armor and gives it as much gank/tank as possible. You get two neuts instead of only one and you still go about 3km/s.
It's just a tight fit is all. Also to the people who have accused me of that fit not being very good, I want to hear your ideas on a fit.
You can't accuse that of being a bad fit if you can't think up anything better. It works and I like it.
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Kapse Locke
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Posted - 2010.01.31 04:11:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Omarvelous @ worm comment - 14k buffer is 2x the tank of dram - with gang bonuses its pretty nice - even if slow (still faster than cruisers with mwd). I came off as saying it was good at catching frigs - I meant it was a good tackler in that it catches bigger ships and survives long enough for your gang to finish the job.
Interceptors do this better, and Dramiel does this better than interceptors.
Even if the Dramiel does perform better, it doesn't make the other ships obsolete for tackling. You still pay for the privilege and those other ships still do the same job they did before the patch that changed the Dramiel.
If your statement is a complaint, then by that logic we should ban high performance vehicles because they can transport people faster than the average family sedan.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa It's just a tight fit is all. Also to the people who have accused me of that fit not being very good, I want to hear your ideas on a fit.
You can't accuse that of being a bad fit if you can't think up anything better. It works and I like it.
When people respond to the average Siigari Kitawa-style ship fitting they usually include one part "green eyed monster" (jealousy) and one part cowering at the idea of losing such a fitted ship.
If fitting the absolute best fitting possible (in terms of pure performance)to a ship was such a sin, we wouldn't have this forum and everyone would still be fitting Tech I, Meta I modules to everything they flew instead.
If you can't afford what you see - or are too risk adverse to do it - then yes, you can always rub your own two neurons together and devise something more to your budget.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.01.31 04:49:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Interceptors do this better, and Dramiel does this better than interceptors.
Interceptors are faster but die faster.
Dramiel is probably the best inty killer in game (doesn't make it op for a frig).
Worm is ideal for a a ship faster than a cruiser - with a frig radius (once mwd is off after tackle) - with a tank almost as good as a cruiser. Its got a bad rep because its dps is **** (I fly mine with 5 ecm drones for extra tackle survivability).
I don't fly frigs in gangs for dps though...
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.01.31 06:10:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: Gypsio III
Interceptors do this better, and Dramiel does this better than interceptors.
Interceptors are faster but die faster.
Dramiel is probably the best inty killer in game (doesn't make it op for a frig).
Well thats the problem right there, the Dramiel is faster than interceptors, and has better agility than interceptors. The only thing interceptors do better is dying quick.
It completely obsoletes combat interceptors, actually it obsoletes pretty much every combat frigate out there.
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scoutyman
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Posted - 2010.01.31 09:32:00 -
[160]
Could anyone clarify how a sentinel goes about killing a dramiel? I honestly dont know much about the sentinel but at first glance, even when capped out, the dramiel keeps it's dps (auto's + drones ) and tank (MSE).
A fit would also be nice =p
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.01.31 10:11:00 -
[161]
Originally by: scoutyman Could anyone clarify how a sentinel goes about killing a dramiel? I honestly dont know much about the sentinel but at first glance, even when capped out, the dramiel keeps it's dps (auto's + drones ) and tank (MSE).
A fit would also be nice =p
In theory, when capped out (and TD'd, don't forget about the very relevant TD bonus), a sentinel should be able to hold the dramiel at whatever range he wanted (since sentinel + MWD is faster than dramiel + no prop mod by a lot). At 20km ish even non-TD'd autocannons won't do much and as for the drones + MSE... well, the sentinel has more drones anyway.
I would suspect that if the dramiel has a nos though (and even without one) it could just rush the sentinel, scram, and turn on guns, and melt the sentinel long before it could stabilize the situation with neuts + TDs. ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.01.31 12:48:00 -
[162]
Originally by: scoutyman Could anyone clarify how a sentinel goes about killing a dramiel? I honestly dont know much about the sentinel but at first glance, even when capped out, the dramiel keeps it's dps (auto's + drones ) and tank (MSE).
A fit would also be nice =p
[Sentinel, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Small Armor Repairer II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Tracking Disruptor II Warp Disruptor II
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Warrior II x4
If you use range script, he WILL be able to shoot down all your drones /acs + tracking bonus/, if you use tracking he will be able to do around 80dps at 18k /with drones/. Your pick.
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.31 13:46:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I've taken down two Dramiels on seperate occasions in different circumstances with my Cruor.
The fit isn't too far off from Proxyyyy's, but it's a tad unique and it flows well for a frigate.
[Cruor, Siigari-Style]
Couldn't you replace everything except the web with T2 or named and you'd still have the most important feature of the Cruor - really strong webbing - intact, and save enough isk to buy like 10 more cruors? Doesn't seem like most of the faction/storyline gear on that is really doing any good
Perhaps, however this fit optimizes the armor and gives it as much gank/tank as possible. You get two neuts instead of only one and you still go about 3km/s.
It's just a tight fit is all. Also to the people who have accused me of that fit not being very good, I want to hear your ideas on a fit.
You can't accuse that of being a bad fit if you can't think up anything better. It works and I like it.
At the end of the day the fit is not bad, I think where most people are coming from is the fact that when you get down to it, it's still a frigate, and thus anything bigger has a decent chance at kicking the **** out of you, your 1bil fit cruor might be totally badass, and wipe the floor with any other frigate, but my 50mil insurable hurricane will still kill it with no trouble at all. I myself don't see the point in spending so much on a frigate hull, I can really only understand faction mods on things like faction bs, which are valuable enough to warrant a good amount of faction equipment for the best edge in combat.
Also, I don't think I've ever seen digital booster rockets, nor the bastion plate.
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Kimura Masahiko
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.31 14:08:00 -
[164]
I think a good rule of thumb is to stick with spending the same or less than ships hull cost on the fittings. You don't need a siigari style failfit to kill a dramiel in a cruor. T2 fit plus a faction web if you can afford it and you're good to go.
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z0de
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.01.31 16:47:00 -
[165]
Dramiel is a vagabond of old scaled down to frig size. cpp nerfed the old vaga and will most likely nerf the new baby vaga. á á
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Intigo
Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.31 17:00:00 -
[166]
Originally by: z0de Dramiel is a vagabond of old scaled down to frig size. cpp nerfed the old vaga and will most likely nerf the new baby vaga.
Except, you know, it's not really.
But...yeah. ___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
W0wbagger
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Posted - 2010.01.31 17:13:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I've taken down two Dramiels on seperate occasions in different circumstances with my Cruor.
The fit isn't too far off from Proxyyyy's, but it's a tad unique and it flows well for a frigate.
[Cruor, Siigari-Style]
'Caltrop' Small Energy Neutralizer I 'Caltrop' Small Energy Neutralizer I
Runs with implants:
Slave Alpha Slave Beta Slave Gamma Slave Delta Slave Epsilon Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Squire' PG8 Ogdin's Eye Coordination Enhancer Pashan's Turret Customization Mindlink Akemon's Modified 'Noble' ZET5000
Has over 13k EHP, goes about 2.7km/s in overload and if you aren't catching a Dramiel you are doing something wrong. That web reaches 19.5km and you should absolutely murder any Dramiel pilot that realistically wants to be in range to kill you.
Haha see you found those Caltrops then. Quite rare those but very handy.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.01.31 17:26:00 -
[168]
I still don't think the dram obsolete's anything.
Its better than interceptors - it does everything they do but better. Well it should! It costs 2-3 times as much - and I dont see 2-3 x better performance.
Its not better at crippling and disabling ships (cruor - sentinel). Sometimes you need to cripple a ship that your gank frig couldn't destroy quickly enough.
It doesn't jam like a kitsune.
It doesn't have the dps of gank af or the daredevil/succubus.
It lacks the durability of a worm (when tackling bigger ships).
Less hyperbole - more objectivity. Its just a super interceptor - but often times I want something else out of a frig.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2010.01.31 17:38:00 -
[169]
I wish i flew around where sigari flew so that when i killed him I could loot ONE of his modules and never have to worry about isk again
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.01.31 18:02:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen I wish i flew around where sigari flew so that when i killed him I could loot ONE of his modules and never have to worry about isk again
Yeah but I'd gank you on your way to jita and take your loot!
Oh wait - it would vaporize like all the nice loot does...
JOIN US |
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Aurora IV
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Posted - 2010.01.31 18:24:00 -
[171]
C'mon guys, whats with the 100 mil isk counters. This one is so easy.
[Griffin, LOL Rifter Bait] Signal Distortion Amplifier II
1MN MicroWarpdrive I ECM - Phase Inverter II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I [empty rig slot]
5 Mil isk, overheat the ECM and you will have 100% jam strengh on a Dramiel. It will take a while to chew through the MSE, but you can heat an ECM mod for like 3 minutes, so plenty of time.
I used this to kill Rifters in Amamake a while back, same process, just jam and stay close and they will die eventually. Pulse the MWD to stay close, and an AB just won't cut it since, even webbed, a Dramiel is faster than you.
The only way a Dramiel can kill you: -You don't have both Caldari Frigate and Signal Suppression to V -Dramiel pilot has Jackal Implants -A pilot that fits ECCM mods
Good hunting, should make for some LOL killmails.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.01.31 18:56:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Aurora IV The only way a Dramiel can kill you: -You don't have both Caldari Frigate and Signal Suppression to V -Dramiel pilot has Jackal Implants -A pilot that fits ECCM mods -Dramiel pilot remembers to bring Warriors
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Doccia Ellicis
Caldari Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.31 19:10:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Aurora IV C'mon guys, whats with the 100 mil isk counters. This one is so easy.
[Griffin, LOL Rifter Bait] Signal Distortion Amplifier II
1MN MicroWarpdrive I ECM - Phase Inverter II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I [empty rig slot]
5 Mil isk, overheat the ECM and you will have 100% jam strengh on a Dramiel. It will take a while to chew through the MSE, but you can heat an ECM mod for like 3 minutes, so plenty of time.
I used this to kill Rifters in Amamake a while back, same process, just jam and stay close and they will die eventually. Pulse the MWD to stay close, and an AB just won't cut it since, even webbed, a Dramiel is faster than you.
The only way a Dramiel can kill you: -You don't have both Caldari Frigate and Signal Suppression to V -Dramiel pilot has Jackal Implants -A pilot that fits ECCM mods
Good hunting, should make for some LOL killmails.
His drones will rip you apart.
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.01 02:06:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Aurora IV C'mon guys, whats with the 100 mil isk counters. This one is so easy.
[Griffin, LOL Rifter Bait] Signal Distortion Amplifier II
1MN MicroWarpdrive I ECM - Phase Inverter II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I [empty rig slot]
5 Mil isk, overheat the ECM and you will have 100% jam strengh on a Dramiel. It will take a while to chew through the MSE, but you can heat an ECM mod for like 3 minutes, so plenty of time.
I used this to kill Rifters in Amamake a while back, same process, just jam and stay close and they will die eventually. Pulse the MWD to stay close, and an AB just won't cut it since, even webbed, a Dramiel is faster than you.
The only way a Dramiel can kill you: -You don't have both Caldari Frigate and Signal Suppression to V -Dramiel pilot has Jackal Implants -A pilot that fits ECCM mods
Good hunting, should make for some LOL killmails.
Three warrior or hobgoblin IIs will kill you or drive you off long before you eat through his MSE.
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Darthewok
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.02.01 02:22:00 -
[175]
scrambler and web useless vs dramiel as its too fast even with AB (and webbed!) range kiting useless because dramiel is faster than you and has drones ecm useless because dramiel has drones neuting useless because dramiel weapons are capless straightforward dps and tank useless because dramiel has either more dps and tank than you or can kite you with superior speed get the picture yet why dramiel is OP?
to those theorycrafting without experience, go actually fly against a dramiel and you will realise your theories are worth $#@$@ not talking about daredevil and cruor, those i think would work, but still it leaves dramiel to totally crush the other 99% of frigs and do their jobs better, making them obsolete daredevil and cruor can crush dramiel but not do a better job at intercepting than interceptors, so it doesn't make the other frigs obsolete
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.02.01 04:24:00 -
[176]
Originally by: W0wbagger Haha see you found those Caltrops then. Quite rare those but very handy.
Hell yeah! I had a BPC laying around so I printed 2 of them. It was good advice, my fit is easier now and I get longer range webs.
Thanks for the tip ;)
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.01 06:19:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Darthewok scrambler and web useless vs dramiel as its too fast even with AB (and webbed!) range kiting useless because dramiel is faster than you and has drones ecm useless because dramiel has drones neuting useless because dramiel weapons are capless straightforward dps and tank useless because dramiel has either more dps and tank than you or can kite you with superior speed get the picture yet why dramiel is OP?
to those theorycrafting without experience, go actually fly against a dramiel and you will realise your theories are worth $#@$@ not talking about daredevil and cruor, those i think would work, but still it leaves dramiel to totally crush the other 99% of frigs and do their jobs better, making them obsolete daredevil and cruor can crush dramiel but not do a better job at intercepting than interceptors, so it doesn't make the other frigs obsolete
Webs and scrams slow down the dramiel and make it easier to hit, just like any other frigate. Its not immune to webs.
Range kiting works with laser or droneboats who have web/scram/ab because the dramiel has no web.
All a neuted dramiel can do is shoot, it can't run its scram, ab or mwd if its totally neuted down. Which nullifies its greatest attribute, which is the dual prop.
Ecm is far from useless, the drones only work if you dropped them before you were jammed.
Straightfoward dps and tank work, because the dramiels dps and tank is average, but its just that it can disengage quite easily.
Stop your useless whining and go kill somebody. Just cause you suck doesnt mean a ship is overpowered.
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Darthewok
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.02.01 06:46:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Shiroi Okami
Webs and scrams slow down the dramiel and make it easier to hit, just like any other frigate. Its not immune to webs. Range kiting works with laser or droneboats who have web/scram/ab because the dramiel has no web. All a neuted dramiel can do is shoot, it can't run its scram, ab or mwd if its totally neuted down. Which nullifies its greatest attribute, which is the dual prop. Ecm is far from useless, the drones only work if you dropped them before you were jammed. Straightfoward dps and tank work, because the dramiels dps and tank is average, but its just that it can disengage quite easily. Stop your useless whining and go kill somebody. Just cause you suck doesnt mean a ship is overpowered.
have you actually tried any of those things vs a Dramiel? they sound good in theory only.
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Al Anders
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Posted - 2010.02.01 06:46:00 -
[179]
[Crusader, Hard to get] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Domination Warp Disruptor
Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Let's say. That one will be always out of range and overspeed you. Once your drones are killed - you're pinned and waiting. If it'll use some spice like a heatsinks instead of nanos - it'll kill you alone. And much cheaper Yes' That is theorycraft.
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.01 06:58:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 01/02/2010 06:59:13
Originally by: Al Anders [Crusader, Hard to get] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Domination Warp Disruptor
Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S Dual Light Beam Laser II, Aurora S
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Let's say. That one will be always out of range and overspeed you. Once your drones are killed - you're pinned and waiting. If it'll use some spice like a heatsinks instead of nanos - it'll kill you alone. And much cheaper Yes' That is theorycraft.
As guy who has some *real* experience in beam sader setup (and pretty positive one), i have 2 points: 1) Your fit sucks (no, beamsader REALLY REALLY needs extremely expensive gear and at least partial snake set to run efficiently) 2) It will lose to dramiel with MWD in just 10-20 seconds
Even when your beamsader has domi WD (don't forget to fit lock range rigs btw) you need to have 1.5x speed of your opponent's speed to be able to stay out of 13 km and tackle him - and it's with several piloting techniques which require quake player reflexes and low ping.
Even if it's AB-only, it still has nice tank and speed. You will need to perma-use your MWD which will eat your cap quicly while shooting drones/dramiel, and 200mm ACs will hit you even at 25km pretty often. Dramiel is ship i will always avoid on my 500 mils beamsader.
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