If it really was mostly fleet "A" waits for fleet "B" to come by that would be great. More often than not its lazy fleet "A" sitting on the gate and killing industrials and the odd single ship passing through. For every true "looking for the good fight" I see 10 "woot! ganked your hauler, now to swim in your tears" encounters.

So there are going to be all manner of reasons being added to low sec to get folks into the system. Like new mining options, like new FW activities, like who knows what since CCP seems to want to get folks to try out the more dangerous side of Eve.

And where do you think that fight is going to happen?

Oh, on a gate.

Doh.

-Liang

This is you not knowing how to differentiate parts of the pirate community. People who like FIGHTS are against it. People who like GANKS don't care because they aren't affected.

-Liang

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

This is a distinction worth noting. Some pirates are in it for profit and are actually "good fight" adverse because good fights don't pay like juicy haulers, and gate guns aren't a big deal because fights against haulers are very short. Others are not really pirates... they are PvPers who are looking for good or any fights, and they will hate this because most fights happen around gates, and this change will make it impossible to have a "good fight" by a gate.

Pos, plannet,moon, plex?

Lets not forget that sentry guns can what hit at 170km 175km?

As stated in the original information, interceptors can still scram then GTFO afterwards.

Thinking about it if someone wants to camp a gate still. all tehy need is 1 inty... 1 hic.... oh wait.... sniper T2 bc's? Might of been a happy coincidence that ccp released T3bc's which if these changes go forwards are the logical camp(sniper) ships

All any changes to mechanics need is a little thought, what could be done before can be done again

Ok:
- Fighting at a POS is just stupid - at least as stupid as fighting at the new gate guns.
- Fighting at a Planet is very rare because there aren't any reasons to go there shy of killing PI haulers.
- Fighting at a moon is even more rare because you have to d-scan them down...
- Fighting at a PLEX is killing carebears. Wheeeeeee.........



I love how you have no idea what you're talking about.



And much longer than that and we're talking about instapopping slaved linked deadspace tanked Damnations.



So that allows ganks but not fights. Let's return to the complaint that it will kill FIGHTS.

-Liang

Because fighting a noob 10v1 is a FIGHT

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol

OMG

Can he pls Quit his Job and give it to me ?

Is he totally nuts or is there just a little too much drinking involved ?

This is a distinction worth noting. Some pirates are in it for profit and are actually "good fight" adverse because good fights don't pay like juicy haulers, and gate guns aren't a big deal because fights against haulers are very short. Others are not really pirates... they are PvPers who are looking for good or any fights, and they will hate this because most fights happen around gates, and this change will make it impossible to have a "good fight" by a gate.

The problem I have with these issues is not that it doesnt solve the gatecamp issue, we dont gatecamp much if at all, but that it basiclly makes fights like this, this, this and this utterly unable to take place.

For those that cant be bothered to click links the vast majority of our fleet fights take place on or near gates and stations, buffing sentries in the way greyscale intends will get rid of most of our chances of having any kind of a fight that isnt a 'get in, shoot, get out' gank.

That's a bit extreme because he has said they were just spitballing an idea. Hopefully its one they toss directly into the trash bin, mind. . .

No ... no, guys. I have the best idea.

We get shuttles.

And we get duct tape ...

Are you listening? Because here comes the best part ...

We duct tape ... the sentry guns ... to our shuttles. Eh? Eh?

I think Liang is bad at probing

You sound upset.

You seem to be avoiding the valid arguments and taking flamebait

I have been an outlaw since late 2008, a frequent pirate and when pvping, I'm GCC more often than not.

With that said, I support the general idea of the change. I have always disliked the whole notion of gate camping. PvP should occur at places of value to players such as POS's, POCO's, exploration sites and so on. Gate camping is the most pathetic form of pvp and simply needs to die imho.

That said, those who have mentioned this won't change mission runner's perspective of low sec are correct. It really is combat probes everywhere 24/7. Probing used to be a highly specialized skill that only a few players had, now everyone and their mother can be good at it with a day of skill training and 20 minutes of practice. I hated the old system and love the far more logical current one. But it needs to be made much harder to probe ships of all classes. There are a number of ways to do this from simple cycle time changes to alterations in deviation and probe strength. Perhaps even adding new tier 2 probing skills to up strength and reduce deviation further.

I also agree that this won't completely eliminate gate camps, the inty/AF with a bunch of alpha tornado's sitting 151km off the gate is a very real possibility. In fact I personally have used this tactic in the past. But I don't see it becoming a common sight due to its obvious limitations.

In any case, I see this as a package deal. Dealing with perma camps is good, this coming from a long time pirate, but it is incomplete. A nerf to combat probing must also be made. With these two together, running lvl4's in low sec in your CNR might not be such a terrible idea for a high sec player. Guys like me will still catch them, but guys like me are rare.

It will also force roaming gangs to look a little harder for something to shoot. Rather than blobbing gatecamps, they'll have to bait and blob in a belt. Not a major change, but it is a change.

Keep in mind that this post I am quoting is from a player whos posts I used to read to find out how NOT to get ganked in deadspace/mission/exploration sites. This players once posted some pretty neat scanning methods that can beat a D-Scanner any day and why I crap myself first before going into wormholes just do I don't have to worry about crapping myself later.

Good to see you are still posting and no I would never try a ECCM Apoc even before they nerfed it.