They aren't fine. What good do they do anyone now? When they were introduced you couldn't camp them. Now you can. So either your argument is there shouldn't have ever been gate guns in low sec or you have to agree they are NOT working as intended.

Issler

I am trying to understand Greyscale's reasoning

Also to people who think camps will be gone: insta locking ceptors on gate with fleet in a just out of grid BM ready to warp , nothing is going to change. If anything , it's going to make it harder for noobs in frigates/destroyers to get in lowsec due to getting killed by small gank ships that can now survive sentries long enough to get kills.

Instead of that they could make it so that when you jump through a star gate you get spawned anywhere in the other system, not necessarily on the gate.

How do you know for sure?

For all we know the gun will keep increasing in strength as long as it's firing at *something* and once your frigate returns to the gate it will simply get instagibbed once cycled to.

I still don't think it's a good blanket fix, but I'm fairly sure if CCP's intention is to remove gatecamps in lowsec they'll implement a solution that deals with warping in and out as well.

How do you know for sure?

For all we know the gun will keep increasing in strength as long as it's firing at *something* and once your frigate returns to the gate it will simply get instagibbed once cycled to.

I still don't think it's a good blanket fix, but I'm fairly sure if CCP's intention is to remove gatecamps in lowsec they'll implement a solution that deals with warping in and out as well.

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker. Seeing that CCP wants to address this reduces that fear.

Add some other exciting elements to life in low sec that make folks hit the magic risk/reward point and you have an influx of new folks in low sec. Not changing the dynamic of low sec means it remains the wasteland it is today.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

So if you don't like this idea, what would you change to make low sec more popular?

Issler

I like that idea. Jump gates become Jump cannons that plop you somewhere within 5-30 AU of the system's star?

You are forgiven for the whack-a-mole thread Freeze!

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

So if you don't like this idea, what would you change to make low sec more popular?

Issler

But the one thing which really caught my eye is that sentries will now aggro people with suspect flags. That means that sentry guns will fire on people who steal from cans, ninja-salvage post-pvp wrecks on gate, etc. Has anyone else noticed this in Greyscale's post? Is this really the direction EVE is heading into? Capital punishment by non-player mechanics for small offenses?

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker. Seeing that CCP wants to address this reduces that fear.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec?

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker. Seeing that CCP wants to address this reduces that fear.

Add some other exciting elements to life in low sec that make folks hit the magic risk/reward point and you have an influx of new folks in low sec. Not changing the dynamic of low sec means it remains the wasteland it is today.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

The sentry damage thing we can easily get around, most likely by using long-range setups with alternating tacklers. It's going to be like 2004 again, so maybe I should dust off that 8-HS Armageddon? No, really, we'll still kill people on gates just fine. This will however indeed disrupt roaming engagements and severely disrupt faction warfare.

But the one thing which really caught my eye is that sentries will now aggro people with suspect flags. That means that sentry guns will fire on people who steal from cans, ninja-salvage post-pvp wrecks on gate, etc. Has anyone else noticed this in Greyscale's post? Is this really the direction EVE is heading into? Capital punishment by non-player mechanics for small offenses?

Oh, and, just because it might be easier for you bears to get into low-sec, doesn't mean that it will be any safer once you're inside. Do you really think we can't probe out your mission sites, or that our aversion to mining makes us unable to bring ourselves to warp to asteroid belts? I'm guessing you guys are going to give this a couple of tries, and then whine for sentries/CONCORD in belts and mission sites. And CCP will give them to you.

Low sec is still going to be dangerous, but folks are going to have to work a little harder to keep it that way. Also remember soon we are going to have a very much tougher mining barge that I hope to see folks trying out in low sec.

Maybe it really is over then. Maybe EVE is making that final transition that a few other games have made. I've been here for near a decade, and smiled through all of those doomsday proclamations, but it's really looking like this is it this time around. It's not just a matter of one change that throws carebears a bone. They're not stopping.

Do you really think 120,000 EHP on a barge or ASBs on your Tengu are going to protect you from a pvp-fit Vindicator flown by a 2004 vet who has done nothing but pvp for the past eight years? I'm telling you, it's a false sense of security. Instead of learning combat mechanics on a mass scale and organizing yourselves into competent groups, you guys are clamoring for non-player game play mechanics for protection so that you can solo mine and run missions and it simply will not work.

I like it because it reduces gate/station games a lot and removes the smart bomb gate camps that are unavoidable for someone jumping into it.

There can still be war decs if you want your station/gate games that much but anywhere else you can still die in a fire, missions, belts, outside a POS or at a planet, safespot, etc.

I think we are still one step away from making this all work. Get the ore in low sec SUBSTANTIALLY better than high sec and make it worth organizing 10 barge fleet op WITH proper combat support. There was a time in Eve where that was the only way I mined. Sadly, I can't make the case to anyone these days that doing that is anything other than crazy because I will make as much in high sec with out any of the logistics hassle and risk. Until the reward it there, you are right, not much will change.

The secret will be to make the rewards enough when spread across the GROUP to make folks want to take it on. And remember, rewards can be a fun experience every bit as much as the isks.

Issler

Talk about creating an artificial environment to prove your point. This is not the norm.

Add at least 10 people to the mix and constantly cycle damage off of each ship until every ship and drone has been shot once before returning to the original target.

Don't forget to place an NPC character in a orca at the high sec gate, ready to jump because of zero agro, so those that can't just warp away can just 'store their ships instantly'.

Not sure what the current purpose of gate guns is right now, but it isn't to clear the gates :o

Make anyone sat at a gate in low sec build aggression to the guns.

I demand 'cranky' gate guns!!