What an ignorant viewpoint. Do you even PVP?

-Liang

Don't fight at gates. Problem solved.

Also don't play docking games.

Your killboard will survive. It'll be okay.

Now we just need more reasons to go elsewhere in low-sec so that some fights will crop up. Other than the FW sites.

You will need to be a little more specific about what I got wrong. Do you disagree that CCP put gate guns on gates in low sec for a reason? Do you disagree you couldn't perma-camp them until ships progressed to the point that now they can? Do you think moving the fights off the gates is a bad idea? If so, why?

Just insulting me without a counter to my explanation doesn't make your case any more compelling. CCP clearly sees this as something that needs attention, I think I'll side with them on this change.

Issler

See the thing you missed... when a fleet is camping a gate, and another fleet comes roaming by... this would create action... you want that destroyed? You want eve more boring than it already is? Eve has had "concord" players for years "anti pirats" people who would roam around low sec looking for criminals (which would normally be on the gates preying on the weak)... now they will just wait at a bookmark above the gate and warp down when they know you come in...(which is already done)

If it really was mostly fleet "A" waits for fleet "B" to come by that would be great. More often than not its lazy fleet "A" sitting on the gate and killing industrials and the odd single ship passing through. For every true "looking for the good fight" I see 10 "woot! ganked your hauler, now to swim in your tears" encounters.

This won't solve everything but it will make a capital living at a gate less common and will change the dynamics of places like Rancer. I live in low sec and deal with gate camps every day so I know a little about the experience. I like this idea and hope CCP goes through with some form of it.

I've been very forthright with why it's a bad idea: almost all PVP in all areas of Eve happens on gates. High sec, low sec, null sec, WH space... wherever. The fights always happen where people travel. The entire game is built around it. While the change would undoubtedly prevent people from gate camping, it will ALSO severely hamper people that are roaming - so even the "good" kind of PVP would simply die out too.

Furthermore, this does nothing to really affect the usage of content in low sec because that's already not on gates. Basically, it's misguided and naive. And it will further break this section of the game.

-Liang

You will need to be a little more specific about what I got wrong. Do you disagree that CCP put gate guns on gates in low sec for a reason? Do you disagree you couldn't perma-camp them until ships progressed to the point that now they can? Do you think moving the fights off the gates is a bad idea? If so, why?

Just insulting me without a counter to my explanation doesn't make your case any more compelling. CCP clearly sees this as something that needs attention, I think I'll side with them on this change.

Issler

Now to be fair, there needs to be a lot more known about how it would get implemented. We don't know the way the gate resets for example so until we see a more detailed blog or it is actually on the test server we don't really even know what we are arguing about.

I really don't care about the whole gate camp part - though I actually like crashing gate camps with my old high sec PVE alt. But nerfing AAAAAALLLLLLLLLL engagements in low sec to the point that they just won't happen is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

It's just flat stupid.



I can't even remember last time I saw a capital on a gate. Oh wait, yes I can. It was 12-18 months ago...

-Liang

See, that was a great response. You shared your reasons for your opinion. I would argue that it sounds like you are going to have be a lot more mobile to avoid the guns escalating but you'd still be able to roam for a while to a gate and then start a fight, that you should be able to finish up before the guns become a problem. As I just posted in another response the devil will be in the details and we need to know those before we can really decide if this is a good thing or not.

Issler

I've been asking for progressively stronger gate guns in low sec for years. This is a great change that is long overdue!

I also agree with the person that suggested that the gun progression is slower as you go into lower sec.

Can't wait to see it CCP!

Issler

Gate guns in low sec were put there for a reason and were never intended to be perma-camped. Over time the ships improved and now they can be. Mostly all the guns do now is pop new players that don't understand the aggression mechanics.

This makes folks have to look for fights in the belts or other areas of the system instead of lazily sitting at a gate waiting for hapless victims.

There you go, explanation provided.

Issler

Sure we do: we're arguing about an attempt to move combat off gates and ontoGǪ nowhere, because there is no reason for those fights to happen anywhere else.

We're also arguing about what the actual problem is. What is this solving? Why is it a problem to begin with? Is this a good solution for whatever the problem is? That last one might be subject to implementation details, but the others aren't.

the thing is this change WILL NOT AFFECT GATE CAMPS. It will just force a change in tactics (bouncing)

So there are going to be all manner of reasons being added to low sec to get folks into the system. Like new mining options, like new FW activities, like who knows what since CCP seems to want to get folks to try out the more dangerous side of Eve. There are the things you can find and fight. You can't deny the argument that at some point early in Eve CCP put guns at the gates to keep people from hanging out and popping people there. I think they are back to thinking that now and I support them getting the original mechanism re-calibrated.

So unless your position is that there shouldn't have ever been gate guns there in the first place, which is a whole other argument you need to explain why in they form they are in now they are working as intended.

Issler

You can't deny the argument that at some point early in Eve CCP put guns at the gates to keep people from hanging out and popping people there. I think they are back to thinking that now and I support them getting the original mechanism re-calibrated.

You can't deny the argument that at some point early in Eve CCP put guns at the gates to keep people from hanging out and popping people there. I think they are back to thinking that now and I support them getting the original mechanism re-calibrated.

They aren't fine. What good do they do anyone now? When they were introduced you couldn't camp them. Now you can. So either your argument is there shouldn't have ever been gate guns in low sec or you have to agree they are NOT working as intended.

Issler

As a solution to mindless Rancer camping, it's a great idea. As an ex-pirate I applaud the effort to move people away from sitting on gates forever just to get some cheap kills. However, destroying low-sec roaming is not worth it.

It would make way more sense to make the sentry guns' strength depend on the amount of kills in a given solar system during the last x days or hours. That way, you can't reliably camp the same gate but will keep proper lowsec PvP intact.

and while it might not seem like much, if you've lived in lowsec you will have seen the aggression dance at some point: each side goading the other to shoot first so they take the gate gunsGǪ if the guns were pointless, that dance would never happen.