I'm a criminal, nearly -10 myself. I live in lowsec. Probably 50% of my kills are on gates. This **** matters, but the reality is that this meeting was about Winter crimewatch changes. Not stuff that's coming out in Inferno 1.2 next week. If you see this kind of stuff on patch notes, and you haven't ever heard the CSM say anything about it? By all means, burn down the house. But rest assured none of this is set in stone. Sometimes the developers will say that the thought process is that "______ will do ______" and they don't literally mean that this is how this is happening tomorrow.

I'm a criminal, nearly -10 myself. I live in lowsec. Probably 50% of my kills are on gates..

I don't buy it.

The only voice in the minutes, was Aleks saying it was a good idea. Seriously?

Your name wasn't even mentioned in the information portal post, when I asked who had our backs.

Start being honest and stop with this political crap.

Instead of flaming and getting all RUDE why not offer constructive critosism about the proposed plans

You mean kind of like what this thread has offered?

Why are you being so rude and childish and moaning about how people act rather than join in the discussion?

Overall, design ideas are fine and all, but it's also a good idea if they include an overview of what problems they're meant to solve. Pretty much every point of criticism so far seems to trace back to that basic question: what's the problem? It may very well be that it's a good idea, if it solves some specific problem (or, if not, it may just need some tweaks to get to where it needs to be). On the other hand, it may be that the problem itself is fundamentally misinformed, and that no matter how good the solution is, it won't actually solve anything.

and none of us on the CSM really felt like whoring for constituent cred

The moment I understood that this was stuff we had months ahead to work on and discuss the issue in skype and in the forums, there just wasn't a sense of urgency to stand up and cause a scene about the issue.

This is an excellent question, and highly appropriate seeing as how we just went through this with the Unified Inventory. Design changes should serve a purpose, and not be done for the sake of being done. There will be certainly time for these questions to be answered, publicly, before any hard decisions are made. I think a lot of people don't understand that the summit is often just a starting point, to begin conversations that end up continuing into the months following.

The sessions are also fast-paced, and I was limited to remote chat which is a fraction of the speed of someone sitting in the room just blurting out a response. I could have certainly chimed in on every single thing I liked or didnt like during each of the sessions, but it would have been ridiculously inefficient and disruptive. The summits no longer exist merely to log official +1's to ideas, and none of us on the CSM really felt like whoring for constituent cred by having to more or less "vote" on every single proposal. The moment I understood that this was stuff we had months ahead to work on and discuss the issue in skype and in the forums, there just wasn't a sense of urgency to stand up and cause a scene about the issue.

Besides - this is an idea that came just out of a vacuum, just like Tippia pointed out. I've always saved my blanket statements about what needs to be done for those items that have been discussed and vetted in large part by the community. As this thread shows, you don't all agree on "the right thing" to do with gate g. It would have been irresponsible for me to take a hard stand before I'd had a chance to discuss it with you first. This was quite different than say, Faction Warfare, which I've been engaged with the community about for some time and I can go into a meeting confident about sending a message that properly reflects the player base.

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker. Seeing that CCP wants to address this reduces that fear.

Add some other exciting elements to life in low sec that make folks hit the magic risk/reward point and you have an influx of new folks in low sec. Not changing the dynamic of low sec means it remains the wasteland it is today.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

So if you don't like this idea, what would you change to make low sec more popular?

Issler

My corp lives like forever in lowsec, so what i ll be telling you is some valuable info

Oke the change wont bring more players to lowsec. Why? There will be still gate camps with smaller, insta locking ships with bigger ones on grid to warp on the prey. So now clokies and small frigs wont be able to pass too.

90% of engagements happen on gates. Why? Because u ll have always a stronger fleet and a weaker. The one wth well less odd wont warp to a planet or belt to get massacred by the one with more chances. Baits dont work cos, weaker fleet same as the stronger one has always scouts +2,3 systems. This change would be mild only to corps with titan netwroks which can bait more effectively.

9% fights happen on POCOs and POSes while getting out of reinforece.

And 1 % is well rest. So after this change lowsec will be left with 10% of the pvp was before + maybe some another 5% (the chance that there will be equal fleets and they agree to warp on a planet and have fight there).

So what can be done? There is need of a rise in reward in lowsec. Those features needs to be doable in small amount of time 1 to tops 2 hours and reward be very high.

Exploring is the way. 6/10 are really good excellent profit time/reward. Only regular visitors from highsec are ppl that do those sites. But there needs to be some more of em. Rise the spawn rate. It will attract ppl from high and null and animate some more low sec PvP. Boost the rewards of lv 5 and lv 4 and make them not to be blitzable. Lv 4 to be doable in 15 mins, lv 5 in 30 and lv 6 in 45 mins. Thats is a proper risk/reward ration. Not to much time to be doable, but still enough time go get proped and caught.

Add 1, 2 and 3/10 to lowsec also and make them a bit more profitable than highsec ones. Those wont boost huge amount of isk to lowsec dwellers cos is not much isk/hour but will be quite more for the hisghsec inhabitants which they could risk their frigates/destroyers/cruisers for some fast income of 20/40/60 of mils per 20 min of time needed to do them.

lv 1/10 d accept onyl frigates. Lv 2/10 d accept destroyers and less. lv 3/10 cruisers and less. Remember that the right system d needed and the plexes also to be found.

These changes bring lots of of frigates/destroyers/cruisers from highsec. But also more expensive ships for 4/5/6 of 10. U ds ee low skil players commin ina group with their frigs, dest or cruisers doin those plexes.

What else? Make the gravimetric sites to have all kind of expensive ore but high concetraded. Let say that u d need 5 hulks and an orca full skilled and boosted to empty it in 1hour. But so they can earn few bills from that asteroid alone. What will happen. There will be some ninja miner ops (who knows maybe rorqs d be used more). Miners could pay to lowsec pirates to protect em or even mercenary groups also. Lot of possibilites rise.

And finally static anomalies. These now in lowsec are useless. Make 2 kind of those anomalies appear in lowsec randomly once a week but in same constalation always and with quite a higher reward. One anomaly d require 5 players minimum to be done cruiser and below and one d require 10 players (BS and below). Would add lots of contents, highsec incursions of players or even some wars btw lowsec corps to stay within those.

Just 2 cents of mine :D

Might mean that I can actually jump into amamake without dieing to the PL titans that just sit there smart bombing the gates all day.

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol

Don't fight at gates. Problem solved.

Also don't play docking games.

Your killboard will survive. It'll be okay.

How the bollocks is this going to stop gatecamps on low sec entries? Inties being allowed to stick around and point for a close in warp of the friendly fleet before popping is utterly ********.

There will be a small rush of people that may try to get in low sec, then they'll realise that people like me can scan you down and catch you very quickly or at the least stop you doing anything because now we know where your missions/plex/sex shop is.

I want gatecamps stopped, I hate them... dull as **** and no skill but this is not the solution. All this will do is move the low sec pvp people that stay subbed to null sec...

OMG I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE CCP!

Good, ***** more, bout time u pirates were forced off gates into actually being pirates instead of popping retrievers on gates

in the words of Dianabolic

YOU MAD BRO

being an empire carebear, i can fully see the reasoning for this.

they're trying to get more people into low sec, be that for industry, incursions, mining, etc... but no one goes there because of gate campers and station campers.

yes, anyone with a few months in eve, and the intent to go low sec, knows how to avoid a majority of these camps, but that they're there in the first place, and you have to dedicate the fittings onyour ship simply to avoid getting killed, ruins it. these people lock down low sec to anyone who would use it for a useful purpose... it's just a dead zone... in fact, it's worse than null (i can go through the majority of null anyday, but low sec is ALWAYS camped).

for CCP, this is not a move for tears of lazy pvpers (because they ARE lazy, they spend hours on a gate), but a move to get industry/exploration/mining/incursion fleets into low for production.... which for now is shut off, since any ship going through needs a fit to survive the gate, rather than get there fit to do a job.

i like the change...

and it has the effect of pushing those who want to pvp in low sec, to actually TRY. they will have to have skills to LOOK for people.

chances are, with this change, MORE people will go low sec. ... sure, the gate campers and lazy pvprs will be upset, but that will easily be offset with people who find low sec easier to enter and exit for profit.... in carebear ships ... which are easy to kill ... when you find them.

babies. get off the gates and go look around.