CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.

I like it.

Don't fight at gates. Problem solved.

Also don't play docking games.

Your killboard will survive. It'll be okay.

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol

I would just prefer it if they made 0.4 to High Sec Gates WTFBBQ and lowered them in increments so the farther down in Sec you get the less dangerous they are. Then actively display the Sec where the gate you are jumping through to leads on the overview.

Perhaps increase the number of 0.3 - 0.2 systems as well.

The only reason I can think of for this is the PL Titans Smart Bombing on gates. I do not have a problem with this though but this is the only rational thing I can think of.

Look like LowSec is gonna get quieter....

the thing is this change WILL NOT AFFECT GATE CAMPS. It will just force a change in tactics (bouncing)

All part of the plan to get people into null

So all pirate chars are now no longer able to fly frigates with out getting insta popped by sentry guns? Sounds like low sec just got a lot more empty.

Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.

The only reason I can think of for this is the PL Titans Smart Bombing on gates. I do not have a problem with this though but this is the only rational thing I can think of.

All part of the plan to get people into null

and this whole 2 state flagging system is starting to sound a bit dangerous as well. starting to sound like ccp is trying to protect the pigs from themselves after all...

Don't fight at gates. Problem solved.

Also don't play docking games.

Your killboard will survive. It'll be okay.

Cool that means low sec is going to be amazing it now means a 20 man frig gang can camp out at gates insta locking cloakies with a good chance of a frig getting a burn to for a de-cloak. If frigs can tank and spread low sec gate agro lo sec jsut got a lot more pirate friendly and better.

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol

Its all good, this will encourage more ppl trying their luck in low sec.

There is nothing dramatic about it, sec stat will have slightly more meaning and gate camps in low will have to choose worthy targets wisely instead of fire at will.

babies. get off the gates and go look around.

This is designed to get more people into lowsec and this makes you angry? Weren't you lowsec pirates crying about how it's empty and nobody goes there anymore? And now you don't want people there?

Make up your mind.

Now they need to train probing skills and change tactics, this means :effort: but in the end I'm sure they'll be happy with those changes.

Confirming I have terrible probing skills: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Liang_Nuren

-Liang

So, you're happy with those changes, admit it !! -more peeps coming to low is more peeps to shoot at, just different tactics, this is cool and refreshing for the game.

except more people won't be coming to lowsec

So, you're happy with those changes, admit it !! -more peeps coming to low is more peeps to shoot at, just different tactics, this is cool and refreshing for the game.

True piracy lied in the asteroid belts and safespots, not on a stargate.

I can see the reasoning behind that move ( if it comes ) by CCP, they want more HS bears going into low sec and make it more accessable for the risk adverse.
Maybe that even happens but most likely it will not because with Dramiels being able to tank the sentries to make a tackle even CovOps gonna have a hard time to pass a camp not to mention Blokaderunners.
What LS lacks is something that would force people to go there, like a unic item/mineral/whatever that is crucial for a lot of other industry stuff to build.

So baiting people on gates/stations becomes baiting in belts/planets.

True roams lie in fights on the gate, not in the asteroid belt.

-Liang

I will always beg to differ on that, since my past experiences always led to escalation of fights above planets, stars, the belts, safespots, or cyno beacons. Almost never on gates.

As for the gameplay of roaming, it's rather simple.. use dscan or have a dedicated scanner in your fleet. You'll have your true roam fights if there is people in low security space and it won't be on a gate.

Look like LowSec is gonna get quieter....

I've been asking for progressively stronger gate guns in low sec for years. This is a great change that is long overdue!


Issler

I will always beg to differ on that, since my past experiences always led to escalation of fights above planets, stars, the belts, safespots, or cyno beacons. Almost never on gates.


As for the gameplay of roaming, it's rather simple.. use dscan or have a dedicated scanner in your fleet. You'll have your true roam fights if there is people in low security space and it won't be on a gate.

As a point of reference: I've been watching Kil2 stream for a while... guess how many fights happened on gates vs how many happened at a belt/planet/celestial?

Oh, that's right. All of them.

-Liang

I don't understand why so many idiots have a problem with frigs being able to camp a gate in low sec... you can already get cruiser and bc hulls with frig locking speed and fast enough to decloak stuff... allowing frigs to join in on the fun would allow more people to join in on the fun... frigs are easy to kill... so more kills for everyone...

What about a flat signature based damage? So sentry shot missiles instead (carriers would take much more damage)

The idea should be to incourage pvp not scare it away... a gate camp is a potential target for someone to shoot... if you want safe in your hauler or mission ship, then don't go to low sec (ps I spend most of my time in 0.0 because I have gate guns and I think interceptors are the funniest thing to fly)

You'd be asking for concord in low and nullsec too...

So baiting people on gates/stations becomes baiting in belts/planets.

Ever think maybe they're trying to change it from gates to planets? CHANGE OMFG EVE IS DYING BECAUSE SOMETHING CHANGED REWRWRR

Ever think maybe they're trying to change it from gates to planets?

You'd be asking for concord in low and nullsec too...

I've been asking for progressively stronger gate guns in low sec for years. This is a great change that is long overdue!

I don't like gatecamps, but I can't see how this is going to help new players trying to get into lowsec.

A frig was pretty safe when traveling through lowsec because ceptors wouldn't tackle you at a gate and unless it's some stupidly sensor boosted T3 with an offgrid booster, noone could tackle them unless they messed up - now a single ceptor will be able to get an initial point, which is fairly easy to get on a frig-pilot with poor navigation skills.

Oh, andGǪGǪgood, then you can explain why this would in any way be a good change.

You'd be asking for concord in low and nullsec too...

So now a cepter can sit on the gate, fast lock and tackle a ship while the aligned main fleet 5,000km away warps in on top of them in a blink hop and the cepter bolts out for safety. I guess resetting will be the headache part.

I currently don't need tackle to kill your frigate - I just need smartbombing battleships and 2 Guardians.

Gate guns in low sec were put there for a reason and were never intended to be perma-camped. Over time the ships improved and now they can be. Mostly all the guns do now is pop new players that don't understand the aggression mechanics.

This makes folks have to look for fights in the belts or other areas of the system instead of lazily sitting at a gate waiting for hapless victims.

Gate guns in low sec were put there for a reason and were never intended to be perma-camped. Over time the ships improved and now they can be. Mostly all the guns do now is pop new players that don't understand the aggression mechanics.

This makes folks have to look for fights in the belts or other areas of the system instead of lazily sitting at a gate waiting for hapless victims.

There you go, explanation provided.

Issler

Is any of that a problem? Gate guns means the aggressor has to contend with more incoming fire than the target GÇö why is more needed?

It also means that less fights will happen since most targets are found on gates GÇö it's a place people go to (and through); belts and the like are not. So that just loops back to the initial question: why is that a good thing?

Gate guns in low sec were put there for a reason and were never intended to be perma-camped. Over time the ships improved and now they can be. Mostly all the guns do now is pop new players that don't understand the aggression mechanics.

This makes folks have to look for fights in the belts or other areas of the system instead of lazily sitting at a gate waiting for hapless victims.

There you go, explanation provided.

Issler

And how often do you encounter that unless you're a total **** going through rancer?

What an ignorant viewpoint. Do you even PVP?

-Liang

Don't fight at gates. Problem solved.

Also don't play docking games.

Your killboard will survive. It'll be okay.

Now we just need more reasons to go elsewhere in low-sec so that some fights will crop up. Other than the FW sites.

You will need to be a little more specific about what I got wrong. Do you disagree that CCP put gate guns on gates in low sec for a reason? Do you disagree you couldn't perma-camp them until ships progressed to the point that now they can? Do you think moving the fights off the gates is a bad idea? If so, why?

Just insulting me without a counter to my explanation doesn't make your case any more compelling. CCP clearly sees this as something that needs attention, I think I'll side with them on this change.

Issler

See the thing you missed... when a fleet is camping a gate, and another fleet comes roaming by... this would create action... you want that destroyed? You want eve more boring than it already is? Eve has had "concord" players for years "anti pirats" people who would roam around low sec looking for criminals (which would normally be on the gates preying on the weak)... now they will just wait at a bookmark above the gate and warp down when they know you come in...(which is already done)

If it really was mostly fleet "A" waits for fleet "B" to come by that would be great. More often than not its lazy fleet "A" sitting on the gate and killing industrials and the odd single ship passing through. For every true "looking for the good fight" I see 10 "woot! ganked your hauler, now to swim in your tears" encounters.

This won't solve everything but it will make a capital living at a gate less common and will change the dynamics of places like Rancer. I live in low sec and deal with gate camps every day so I know a little about the experience. I like this idea and hope CCP goes through with some form of it.

I've been very forthright with why it's a bad idea: almost all PVP in all areas of Eve happens on gates. High sec, low sec, null sec, WH space... wherever. The fights always happen where people travel. The entire game is built around it. While the change would undoubtedly prevent people from gate camping, it will ALSO severely hamper people that are roaming - so even the "good" kind of PVP would simply die out too.

Furthermore, this does nothing to really affect the usage of content in low sec because that's already not on gates. Basically, it's misguided and naive. And it will further break this section of the game.

-Liang

You will need to be a little more specific about what I got wrong. Do you disagree that CCP put gate guns on gates in low sec for a reason? Do you disagree you couldn't perma-camp them until ships progressed to the point that now they can? Do you think moving the fights off the gates is a bad idea? If so, why?

Just insulting me without a counter to my explanation doesn't make your case any more compelling. CCP clearly sees this as something that needs attention, I think I'll side with them on this change.

Issler

Now to be fair, there needs to be a lot more known about how it would get implemented. We don't know the way the gate resets for example so until we see a more detailed blog or it is actually on the test server we don't really even know what we are arguing about.

I really don't care about the whole gate camp part - though I actually like crashing gate camps with my old high sec PVE alt. But nerfing AAAAAALLLLLLLLLL engagements in low sec to the point that they just won't happen is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

It's just flat stupid.



I can't even remember last time I saw a capital on a gate. Oh wait, yes I can. It was 12-18 months ago...

-Liang

See, that was a great response. You shared your reasons for your opinion. I would argue that it sounds like you are going to have be a lot more mobile to avoid the guns escalating but you'd still be able to roam for a while to a gate and then start a fight, that you should be able to finish up before the guns become a problem. As I just posted in another response the devil will be in the details and we need to know those before we can really decide if this is a good thing or not.

Issler

I've been asking for progressively stronger gate guns in low sec for years. This is a great change that is long overdue!

I also agree with the person that suggested that the gun progression is slower as you go into lower sec.

Can't wait to see it CCP!

Issler

Gate guns in low sec were put there for a reason and were never intended to be perma-camped. Over time the ships improved and now they can be. Mostly all the guns do now is pop new players that don't understand the aggression mechanics.

This makes folks have to look for fights in the belts or other areas of the system instead of lazily sitting at a gate waiting for hapless victims.

There you go, explanation provided.

Issler

Sure we do: we're arguing about an attempt to move combat off gates and ontoGǪ nowhere, because there is no reason for those fights to happen anywhere else.

We're also arguing about what the actual problem is. What is this solving? Why is it a problem to begin with? Is this a good solution for whatever the problem is? That last one might be subject to implementation details, but the others aren't.

the thing is this change WILL NOT AFFECT GATE CAMPS. It will just force a change in tactics (bouncing)

So there are going to be all manner of reasons being added to low sec to get folks into the system. Like new mining options, like new FW activities, like who knows what since CCP seems to want to get folks to try out the more dangerous side of Eve. There are the things you can find and fight. You can't deny the argument that at some point early in Eve CCP put guns at the gates to keep people from hanging out and popping people there. I think they are back to thinking that now and I support them getting the original mechanism re-calibrated.

So unless your position is that there shouldn't have ever been gate guns there in the first place, which is a whole other argument you need to explain why in they form they are in now they are working as intended.

Issler

You can't deny the argument that at some point early in Eve CCP put guns at the gates to keep people from hanging out and popping people there. I think they are back to thinking that now and I support them getting the original mechanism re-calibrated.

You can't deny the argument that at some point early in Eve CCP put guns at the gates to keep people from hanging out and popping people there. I think they are back to thinking that now and I support them getting the original mechanism re-calibrated.

They aren't fine. What good do they do anyone now? When they were introduced you couldn't camp them. Now you can. So either your argument is there shouldn't have ever been gate guns in low sec or you have to agree they are NOT working as intended.

Issler

As a solution to mindless Rancer camping, it's a great idea. As an ex-pirate I applaud the effort to move people away from sitting on gates forever just to get some cheap kills. However, destroying low-sec roaming is not worth it.

It would make way more sense to make the sentry guns' strength depend on the amount of kills in a given solar system during the last x days or hours. That way, you can't reliably camp the same gate but will keep proper lowsec PvP intact.

and while it might not seem like much, if you've lived in lowsec you will have seen the aggression dance at some point: each side goading the other to shoot first so they take the gate gunsGǪ if the guns were pointless, that dance would never happen.

They aren't fine. What good do they do anyone now? When they were introduced you couldn't camp them. Now you can. So either your argument is there shouldn't have ever been gate guns in low sec or you have to agree they are NOT working as intended.

Issler

I am trying to understand Greyscale's reasoning

Also to people who think camps will be gone: insta locking ceptors on gate with fleet in a just out of grid BM ready to warp , nothing is going to change. If anything , it's going to make it harder for noobs in frigates/destroyers to get in lowsec due to getting killed by small gank ships that can now survive sentries long enough to get kills.

Instead of that they could make it so that when you jump through a star gate you get spawned anywhere in the other system, not necessarily on the gate.

How do you know for sure?

For all we know the gun will keep increasing in strength as long as it's firing at *something* and once your frigate returns to the gate it will simply get instagibbed once cycled to.

I still don't think it's a good blanket fix, but I'm fairly sure if CCP's intention is to remove gatecamps in lowsec they'll implement a solution that deals with warping in and out as well.

How do you know for sure?

For all we know the gun will keep increasing in strength as long as it's firing at *something* and once your frigate returns to the gate it will simply get instagibbed once cycled to.

I still don't think it's a good blanket fix, but I'm fairly sure if CCP's intention is to remove gatecamps in lowsec they'll implement a solution that deals with warping in and out as well.

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker. Seeing that CCP wants to address this reduces that fear.

Add some other exciting elements to life in low sec that make folks hit the magic risk/reward point and you have an influx of new folks in low sec. Not changing the dynamic of low sec means it remains the wasteland it is today.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

So if you don't like this idea, what would you change to make low sec more popular?

Issler

I like that idea. Jump gates become Jump cannons that plop you somewhere within 5-30 AU of the system's star?

You are forgiven for the whack-a-mole thread Freeze!

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

So if you don't like this idea, what would you change to make low sec more popular?

Issler

But the one thing which really caught my eye is that sentries will now aggro people with suspect flags. That means that sentry guns will fire on people who steal from cans, ninja-salvage post-pvp wrecks on gate, etc. Has anyone else noticed this in Greyscale's post? Is this really the direction EVE is heading into? Capital punishment by non-player mechanics for small offenses?

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker. Seeing that CCP wants to address this reduces that fear.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec?

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker. Seeing that CCP wants to address this reduces that fear.

Add some other exciting elements to life in low sec that make folks hit the magic risk/reward point and you have an influx of new folks in low sec. Not changing the dynamic of low sec means it remains the wasteland it is today.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

The sentry damage thing we can easily get around, most likely by using long-range setups with alternating tacklers. It's going to be like 2004 again, so maybe I should dust off that 8-HS Armageddon? No, really, we'll still kill people on gates just fine. This will however indeed disrupt roaming engagements and severely disrupt faction warfare.

But the one thing which really caught my eye is that sentries will now aggro people with suspect flags. That means that sentry guns will fire on people who steal from cans, ninja-salvage post-pvp wrecks on gate, etc. Has anyone else noticed this in Greyscale's post? Is this really the direction EVE is heading into? Capital punishment by non-player mechanics for small offenses?

Oh, and, just because it might be easier for you bears to get into low-sec, doesn't mean that it will be any safer once you're inside. Do you really think we can't probe out your mission sites, or that our aversion to mining makes us unable to bring ourselves to warp to asteroid belts? I'm guessing you guys are going to give this a couple of tries, and then whine for sentries/CONCORD in belts and mission sites. And CCP will give them to you.

Low sec is still going to be dangerous, but folks are going to have to work a little harder to keep it that way. Also remember soon we are going to have a very much tougher mining barge that I hope to see folks trying out in low sec.

Maybe it really is over then. Maybe EVE is making that final transition that a few other games have made. I've been here for near a decade, and smiled through all of those doomsday proclamations, but it's really looking like this is it this time around. It's not just a matter of one change that throws carebears a bone. They're not stopping.

Do you really think 120,000 EHP on a barge or ASBs on your Tengu are going to protect you from a pvp-fit Vindicator flown by a 2004 vet who has done nothing but pvp for the past eight years? I'm telling you, it's a false sense of security. Instead of learning combat mechanics on a mass scale and organizing yourselves into competent groups, you guys are clamoring for non-player game play mechanics for protection so that you can solo mine and run missions and it simply will not work.

I like it because it reduces gate/station games a lot and removes the smart bomb gate camps that are unavoidable for someone jumping into it.

There can still be war decs if you want your station/gate games that much but anywhere else you can still die in a fire, missions, belts, outside a POS or at a planet, safespot, etc.

I think we are still one step away from making this all work. Get the ore in low sec SUBSTANTIALLY better than high sec and make it worth organizing 10 barge fleet op WITH proper combat support. There was a time in Eve where that was the only way I mined. Sadly, I can't make the case to anyone these days that doing that is anything other than crazy because I will make as much in high sec with out any of the logistics hassle and risk. Until the reward it there, you are right, not much will change.

The secret will be to make the rewards enough when spread across the GROUP to make folks want to take it on. And remember, rewards can be a fun experience every bit as much as the isks.

Issler

Talk about creating an artificial environment to prove your point. This is not the norm.

Add at least 10 people to the mix and constantly cycle damage off of each ship until every ship and drone has been shot once before returning to the original target.

Don't forget to place an NPC character in a orca at the high sec gate, ready to jump because of zero agro, so those that can't just warp away can just 'store their ships instantly'.

Not sure what the current purpose of gate guns is right now, but it isn't to clear the gates :o

Make anyone sat at a gate in low sec build aggression to the guns.

I demand 'cranky' gate guns!!

I think we are still one step away from making this all work. Get the ore in low sec SUBSTANTIALLY better than high sec and make it worth organizing 10 barge fleet op WITH proper combat support. There was a time in Eve where that was the only way I mined. Sadly, I can't make the case to anyone these days that doing that is anything other than crazy because I will make as much in high sec with out any of the logistics hassle and risk. Until the reward it there, you are right, not much will change.

The secret will be to make the rewards enough when spread across the GROUP to make folks want to take it on. And remember, rewards can be a fun experience every bit as much as the isks.

Issler

Do you really think 120,000 EHP on a barge or ASBs on your Tengu are going to protect you from a pvp-fit Vindicator flown by a 2004 vet who has done nothing but pvp for the past eight years? I'm telling you, it's a false sense of security. Instead of learning combat mechanics on a mass scale and organizing yourselves into competent groups, you guys are clamoring for non-player game play mechanics for protection so that you can solo mine and run missions and it simply will not work.

There have been, and still are people that do stuff like that, but those people are usually our alts. Carebears never go to low (except by accident), and will continue not to go there, because it is scary and they don't want to lose their ships. They will continue to not go there until it is as safe as it is where they are right now.

Even if CCP increases low-sec, rewards, it would have to be an exponential increase. Carebear mentality works in such a manner that even a ten-to-one reward:risk ratio isn't good enough. In their eyes, risking nothing to make X is a much more suitable option than risking X to make 10X. No, I'm not pulling this out of my ass; I constantly talk to people (especially those I kill), and try to find out what motivates them, and what makes them tick. They significantly prefer a small reward with no risk than a huge reward with a small or even moderate amount of risk. Bumping low-sec income to be even twice that of high-sec simply won't cut it.

I really don't see why carebears are getting excited about this. We're still going to murder them when they're inside low-sec, so the whole newly-acquired ease of getting into it is just going to result in a false sense of security.

No, there can't be war decs if I want station/gate games because whenever I declare war on someone, they reform into a new entity, and now it costs me on average twenty times as much to declare war on three entities than it did before the changes, so they can basically make me spend a billion per week just to declare war three or four times, and I get 0 minutes of ability to shoot someone in exchange for those payments.

So you like it currently how it is? Low-sec completely dead except for the occasional noob that wanders in by mistake and gets instantly blasted and probably will never want to return again, being that the majority of their 5 second experience of low-sec was a loading screen.

God forbid you actually go and hunt them down. That might be... New and Exciting!

So you like it currently how it is? Low-sec completely dead except for the occasional noob that wanders in by mistake and gets instantly blasted and probably will never want to return again, being that the majority of their 5 second experience of low-sec was a loading screen.

God forbid you actually go and hunt them down. That might be... New and Exciting!

So you're saying that killing them at gates prevents them from coming back, but killing them in mission sites doesn't? Whether they die via gate camp, or I hunt them down and kill them, the end result is the same: they won't come back. The only way to make them come back is to not kill them at all.

Herzog, this change is going to make camping easier, not harder. We'll be able to use 5k-scan resolution frigates to tackle with ease. It's people like camp busters and faction warfare crews that this change will hurt, because being the first to aggro means you'll be the first to eat the sentries.

I agree. 4.5 minutes is a stupidly short amount of time.

By the time you're wiping out carriers with 5000 DPS, whatever.

And how does it scale against multiple combatants?

What if a random battlecruiser with GCC warps to the gate that is totally uninvolved? it gets WTFPWNED because there's been a carrier sitting there for 3 minutes with GCC waiting to troll people?

Whatever.

I don't mind the escalating sentry gun damage, mostly because on the low end it'll mean that fights don't get ****** up by sentry so bad, but if by 4 minutes you're saying there will be 5000+DPS coming from sentries, that's bad.

That is a lot more time for them to experience and learn lowsec at least. Also it sounds like you are part of the problem why people don't want to go to lowsec. Praying on those that don't nearly have the experience or wherewithal to give you a decent fight. If people know they are just going to get smashed, it turns them off from wanting to return and participate.

I don't mind the escalating sentry gun damage, mostly because on the low end it'll mean that fights don't get ****** up by sentry so bad, but if by 4 minutes you're saying there will be 5000+DPS coming from sentries, that's bad.

Hmmm

Perhaps it's simply the cap drop they are after with the 4.5 min cap death idea?

Ganker tears refilling the Ice Belts. Wahoo.

Talk about creating an artificial environment to prove your point. This is not the norm.

Add at least 10 people to the mix and constantly cycle damage off of each ship until every ship and drone has been shot once before returning to the original target.

Don't forget to place an NPC character in a orca at the high sec gate, ready to jump because of zero agro, so those that can't just warp away can just 'store their ships instantly'.

Not sure what the current purpose of gate guns is right now, but it isn't to clear the gates :o

Make anyone sat at a gate in low sec build aggression to the guns.

I demand 'cranky' gate guns!!

Wrong. This change is ganker heaven.

Tears are coming from people who want to fight in small gangs versus other small gangs in competitive fights.

The biggest issue with people not wanting to deal with lowsec is simply entering the system or leaving station is just too risky and not worth it.

Hell and people think care bears whine alot.

The amount of tears from gankers and now pirates are hilarious and it all seems to stem from inability to adapt.

You know adapt, the very thing that people have been telling carebears to do for years. Sure lo-sec will change and more people will want to use it. Not just noobs, Vets and pirates. More players will probably enter lo-sec if there were not smart bombing idiots sitting at gates for hours a day, hoping to pop some ones pod.

Yes you will have to work more for kills and actually PvP.

Hell and people think care bears whine alot.

The amount of tears from gankers and now pirates are hilarious and it all seems to stem from inability to adapt.

You know adapt, the very thing that people have been telling carebears to do for years. Sure lo-sec will change and more people will want to use it. Not just noobs, Vets and pirates. More players will probably enter lo-sec if there were not smart bombing idiots sitting at gates for hours a day, hoping to pop some ones pod.

Yes you will have to work more for kills and actually PvP.

So I think it comes down to this. Do you want more folks in low sec? If so, the perception of a lot of high sec players is low sec is the home of the perma-gate camping ganker. Seeing that CCP wants to address this reduces that fear.

Add some other exciting elements to life in low sec that make folks hit the magic risk/reward point and you have an influx of new folks in low sec. Not changing the dynamic of low sec means it remains the wasteland it is today.

So if you don't like this idea, how do you think you get more folks into low sec? Hint, "keeping roaming pirate like PvP fights" like they happen today isn't the answer. We can see the results of that experience.

TBH, I think this change will massively reduce the amount of actual fights that occur on lowsec gates and leave ganks unaffected.

Lmao, 4.5 minutes!!? What gang would want to aggress another gang on gate with that? Should be at the very minimum 15 minutes.

I'm not against hampering perma tanking but this is such a blanket change that screws over so many other forms of pvp.

My prediction:

1) CCP will go ahead regardless of warnings (history repeating and all that)
2) Low seccers will adapt, new (or revival of old) tactics will emerge
3) Bears gonna whine about being insta tackled by frigs and or volleyed from range
4) CCP makes sentry range cover whole grid :)
5) ... some time passes, more whining
6) Sentries do uber dps from 1st second, eliminating that fast locking small ship threat
7) Sub caps cannot aggress at gates due to dps
8) ... I dunno, seboed supercaps blapping haulers and having to warp out screaming?
9) Any sentry presence becomes pvp free zone.
10) Whining about being probed and killed.
11) Sentries appearing at npc sites, belts
12) ... not sure

Lmao, 4.5 minutes!!? What gang would want to aggress another gang on gate with that? Should be at the very minimum 15 minutes.

I'm not against hampering perma tanking but this is such a blanket change that screws over so many other forms of pvp.

My prediction:

1) CCP will go ahead regardless of warnings (history repeating and all that)
2) Low seccers will adapt, new (or revival of old) tactics will emerge
3) Bears gonna whine about being insta tackled by frigs and or volleyed from range
4) CCP makes sentry range cover whole grid :)
5) ... some time passes, more whining
6) Sentries do uber dps from 1st second, eliminating that fast locking small ship threat
7) Sub caps cannot aggress at gates due to dps
8) ... I dunno, seboed supercaps blapping haulers and having to warp out screaming?
9) Any sentry presence becomes pvp free zone.
10) Whining about being probed and killed.
11) Sentries appearing at npc sites, belts
12) ... not sure

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol

this is bullshit ccp might as well kill the whole pirate comunity,and the only people who like this are probaly all FW anyways.

Worst proposed change of the year. Congratz CCP on knowing next to nothing about your own game yet again.

P.S. This CSM guy actually thinks he knows what he is talking about, kinda funny tbh

According to the numbers presented in that same CSM...

Only 25% of players were playing EvE for the PVP. That leaves...75% who do not consider it a reason for playing the game.

If i were running CCP, I wonder what group I would listen to? Maybe the majority...

all i see here is ccp trying to prevent pirate corps from gatecamping, which is for example my major income all they do is to help pve'ers and blobs.

According to the numbers presented in that same CSM...

Only 25% of players were playing EvE for the PVP. That leaves...75% who do not consider it a reason for playing the game.

If i were running CCP, I wonder what group I would listen to? Maybe the majority...

nor can they deploy bubbles to catch people in warp..

The only problem with that logic (or lack of) is that without the pvp, this game wouldn't exist at all.

According to the numbers presented in that same CSM...

Only 25% of players were playing EvE for the PVP.