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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ghazu
160
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Posted - 2012.09.11 10:55:00 -
[301] - Quote
Mohamad Transporte wrote:nice to see all the rational and non-rational full of hate posts..
however, majority of post are not realizing the issue here... ganking can't be prevented by having an alt scout or not carrying too much (because this is what freighter supposed to do) and having escort for your frieghter is 90% not feasible practicle
Having an alt scout in high sec is not usefull... u can have ur ganking team sitting in a tactical and aligned to target gate with a cloacky warpin scout, that will give u a direct warp in and u keep bumping the freighter so that he can't align and warp (and also he can't crash gate as well due to his slow movement..)
so practically, freighter is a dump ship with no mean of defense
My suggestion: A- Freighter and jump freighter cant be bumped (that eliminate the cheap cost of blaster ganking ships, however, doesnt solve the alfa-nado kinda ganking)
B- Concorded ships receive 0 isk from insurance due to violation of inter-galactic Laws of high sec ;=)
this means ... ganking will remain possible, however, at high cost, and more isk on stake if nothing drops........
A- If titans can be bumped why can't freighters? Make it so you people are magically protected? You want protection and countermeasures? Use transport ships and orcas, because roles what are they for?
B- Already in effect genius. |
William Walker
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
61
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 11:21:00 -
[302] - Quote
But... what if the freighter pilot just logged off if he was getting bumped? I am not entirely sure but I think he just disappears. Unless of course he aggresses something... in his freighter. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
112
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 11:39:00 -
[303] - Quote
William Walker wrote:But... what if the freighter pilot just logged off if he was getting bumped? I am not entirely sure but I think he just disappears. Unless of course he aggresses something... in his freighter. ...finally... Disclaimer; Works not in Low Sec or 0.0. Requires to be NOT afk |
Michael1995
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
32
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Posted - 2012.09.11 12:07:00 -
[304] - Quote
William Walker wrote:But... what if the freighter pilot just logged off if he was getting bumped? I am not entirely sure but I think he just disappears. Unless of course he aggresses something... in his freighter.
Unless they have already attempted to suicide gank him and failed, he can log off and he will e-warp away and then disappear after a minute, no way he can be aggressed if he isn't after he logs off. One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9447
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 13:31:00 -
[305] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Have you ever piloted a freighter over more than 5-6 jumps? Only on a 4-or-6-times-per-week:ly basisGǪ and guess what? It's a piece of cake to be at the keyboard for it. It most certainly isn't a reason to blame the game for your own unwillingness to be attentive and active in the process.
Mars Theran wrote:Sure, you can bring a big fleet to escort it, but how does that help against the gang of 30 Tornados come to one shot gank it, and the Neutral ship to scoop the loot?Sure, you could also be present and accounted for and warp to zero, but it doesn't stop somebody from bumping you off course when you are trying to align from a gate and preventing you warping. GǪhence the use of a webber, so your exposure to that bumpmaniac is, oh, much less than the time it takes for him to accelerate, travel the distance needed, and hit the ship.
Shooting the webber does one thing: it alerts the freighter pilot and calls CONCORD early, giving him a way out and you less time to do your dirty work. End result: one dead neutral that is no longer useful and must be biomassed (that's 10 hours gone), and maybe, with a bit of luck, one tiny frigate lost on the freighter side.
Oh, and what's this about saying that people don't quote in full when they quite in full? Are you not reading or are you just being dishonest? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4572
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:42:00 -
[306] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Sure, you can bring a big fleet to escort it, but how does that help against the gang of 30 Tornados come to one shot gank it, and the Neutral ship to scoop the loot?
Why shouldn't 31 guys working together, and sacrificing >3 billion ISK worth of ships whether or not the operation succeeds, be able to gank a freighter? Are you honestly trying to say that this is too low a bar to set? How many should it take? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
172
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 13:47:00 -
[307] - Quote
Tippia wrote:End result: one dead neutral that is no longer useful and must be biomassed (that's 10 hours gone), and maybe, with a bit of luck, one tiny frigate lost on the freighter side.
And a ban...
Malcanis wrote:Mars Theran wrote:Sure, you can bring a big fleet to escort it, but how does that help against the gang of 30 Tornados come to one shot gank it, and the Neutral ship to scoop the loot? Why shouldn't 31 guys working together, and sacrificing >3 billion ISK worth of ships whether or not the operation succeeds, be able to gank a freighter? Are you honestly trying to say that this is too low a bar to set? How many should it take?
Of course they can do it, but it would be more fun if they shoot 700k EHP Damnation... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9447
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 14:01:00 -
[308] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:And a ban... Not really, or at least it's an edge-case, since it's a one-shot deal that doesn't incur enough of a sec status loss. But sure, come to think of it, they come of easy if they get the kill at an earlier attempt. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Samahiel Sotken
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:18:00 -
[309] - Quote
Why should spaceships in a game about spaceships being blown up because of treachery, war, and crime be immune to being blown up?
Here's a point. It doesn't matter how much tank you give it. You put enough loot in it we'll find a way to blow it up http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14307479 because that's the point of this game. This game expressly bills itself as a gritty universe of crime where hard, grim folks team up to pull one over on each other.
Even so, you're not without recourse. I can think of five strategies off the top of my head that would ruin my day. All your theory crafting and hand waving aside, pulling concord early works, neutral reppers work, neutral blackbirds work, and webbing works. And what works most of all is making sure that you're not carrying something that costs more than 7-9 Tech 2 fitted Tier 3 battlecruisers.
If you do, and decide to do it on autopilot without friends near us, we will take it. Then, we'll use it to plex our accounts and buy more ships to do it to the next idiot. All while raising profits for every intelligent industrialists out there in one integrated, ecumenical, and holistic system of capitalistic symbiosis. This is as is should be, forever and ever, world without end. Amen. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
2727
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 14:27:00 -
[310] - Quote
Ghazu wrote: tell us about mining in rookie systems
You're far to interested in me that it's becoming a little creepy. Don't be that guy.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9448
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:38:00 -
[311] - Quote
Samahiel Sotken wrote: If you do, and decide to do it on autopilot without friends near us, we will take it. Then, we'll use it to plex our accounts and buy more ships to do it to the next idiot. All while raising profits for every intelligent industrialists out there in one integrated, ecumenical, and holistic system of capitalistic symbiosis.
GǪand then people wonder why I'm in favour of more ganking. It's because I profit from their activitites, you dummies. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
2734
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:41:00 -
[312] - Quote
Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
172
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:46:00 -
[313] - Quote
Samahiel Sotken wrote:And what works most of all is making sure that you're not carrying something that costs more than 7-9 Tech 2 fitted Tier 3 battlecruisers.
Except I could spend 1,5B to tank T2 battlecruiser and undock in Jita without any problems... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9448
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 14:48:00 -
[314] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank. How much cargo space are you willing to give up? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
2736
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:49:00 -
[315] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank. How much cargo space are you willing to give up?
None. There is no need to reduce the cargo space to fit tank. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1727
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 14:50:00 -
[316] - Quote
Just how do you defend a suicide gank target in high sec? |
Samahiel Sotken
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:54:00 -
[317] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank.
Yes, but only if they nerf the existing tank so they can only be buffed up to current levels and achieve similar align times. Allowing them to forgo tank in favor of faster align, or both in favor of increased cargo hold. Because I'll tell you what we'll see, even slower fatter, weaker loot pinata's, and that's good for the economy and player interest.
We need more ships being blown up, more risk, and more pilots thinking they can make some quick isk if they take those risks. What makes this game fun, interesting, and ultimately worth playing is not bitter vets watching netflix as meaningless fortunes AFK from belt to station to Jita. That is a useless, stagnant world that reeks of decay and rot.
We need a group of friends excited to try their first act of piracy, uncertain whether they have the fit, and the numbers, and the time to pull it off. We need the industrialist sweating bullets, getting away in 3% structure, glowing with relief at his fortune secured and thanking his corp mate over comms.
This is the path forward, this is why we all joined after watching all those trailers, and hearing breathless accounts from our friends. This is the narrative we need to be working towards. Not more 'iskies' for my 'toonies' to fund officer fit ratting tengus we never fly. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
2741
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 14:58:00 -
[318] - Quote
Samahiel Sotken wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank. Yes, but only if they nerf the existing tank so they can only be buffed up to current levels and achieve similar align times. Allowing them to forgo tank in favor of faster align, or both in favor of increased cargo hold. Because I'll tell you what we'll see, even slower fatter, weaker loot pinata's, and that's good for the economy and player interest. We need more ships being blown up, more risk, and more pilots thinking they can make some quick isk if they take those risks. What makes this game fun, interesting, and ultimately worth playing is not bitter vets watching netflix as meaningless fortunes AFK from belt to station to Jita. That is a useless, stagnant world that reeks of decay and rot. We need a group of friends excited to try their first act of piracy, uncertain whether they have the fit, and the numbers, and the time to pull it off. We need the industrialist sweating bullets, getting away in 3% structure, glowing with relief at his fortune secured and thanking his corp mate over comms. This is the path forward, this is why we all joined after watching all those trailers, and hearing breathless accounts from our friends. This is the narrative we need to be working towards. Not more 'iskies' for my 'toonies' to fund officer fit ratting tengus we never fly.
For once, I agree with a Goon. |
Samahiel Sotken
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 14:59:00 -
[319] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Just how do you defend a suicide gank target in high sec?
Tactics that work have already been mentioned; I'm not going to go into details of mechanics and numbers. We reap the rewards of our research, experience, and our risks; why should we give that up to you who has taken no risk and made no effort? Have you even looked at the kill mails and asked yourself, why these ships in this place with those numbers? If not you haven't even made a bare minimum attempt at playing the game. |
Ghazu
164
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:00:00 -
[320] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Tippia wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank. How much cargo space are you willing to give up? None. There is no need to reduce the cargo space to fit tank. Fit a tank at the cost of what? Painfully foregoing cargo expander IIs? |
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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
81
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:01:00 -
[321] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Just how do you defend a suicide gank target in high sec?
Hint: prevention. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4572
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:02:00 -
[322] - Quote
Samahiel Sotken wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Freighters deserve slots for fitting tank. Yes, but only if they nerf the existing tank so they can only be buffed up to current levels and achieve similar align times. Allowing them to forgo tank in favor of faster align, or both in favor of increased cargo hold. Because I'll tell you what we'll see, even slower fatter, weaker loot pinata's, and that's good for the economy and player interest. We need more ships being blown up, more risk, and more pilots thinking they can make some quick isk if they take those risks. What makes this game fun, interesting, and ultimately worth playing is not bitter vets watching netflix as meaningless fortunes AFK from belt to station to Jita. That is a useless, stagnant world that reeks of decay and rot. We need a group of friends excited to try their first act of piracy, uncertain whether they have the fit, and the numbers, and the time to pull it off. We need the industrialist sweating bullets, getting away in 3% structure, glowing with relief at his fortune secured and thanking his corp mate over comms. This is the path forward, this is why we all joined after watching all those trailers, and hearing breathless accounts from our friends. This is the narrative we need to be working towards. Not more 'iskies' for my 'toonies' to fund officer fit ratting tengus we never fly.
*Applause* Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9448
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:07:00 -
[323] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Tippia wrote:How much cargo space are you willing to give up? None. There is no need to reduce the cargo space to fit tank. Yes there is. If you give them lowslots GÇö the kind they need to tank in any meaningful way GÇö then people will not use those lowslots for tank and instead fill them with cargo expanders. Since one of the design limitations is that no freighter can be allowed to carry 1M m3 (so they can't bring caps into highsec), every lowslot they get will mean that their base cargo capacity must be reduced to counteract the possibility that some nutcase fits expanders in order to carry even more valuables in an even less sturdy ship.
End result: all freighters will now be much less capable to carry cargo, and getting them up to their old carrying capacity entails fitting modules that makes the ship weaker than before. All in all, the ship is worse than before. Balance is a female dog, isn't it?
So, again, how much cargo are you willing to give up, because you will have to if you want to gain the ability to make it stronger. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
2751
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:11:00 -
[324] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Tippia wrote:How much cargo space are you willing to give up? None. There is no need to reduce the cargo space to fit tank. Yes there is. If you give them lowslots GÇö the kind they need to tank in any meaningful way GÇö then people will not use those lowslots for tank and instead fill them with cargo expanders. Since one of the design limitations is that no freighter can be allowed to carry 1M m3 (so they can't bring caps into highsec), every lowslot they get will mean that their base cargo capacity must be reduced to counteract the possibility that some nutcase fits expanders in order to carry even more valuables in an even less sturdy ship. So, again, how much cargo are you willing to give up, because you will have to if you want to gain the ability to make it stronger.
So simply don't allow cargo expanders to be able to be fit to freighters. Though they will make themselves even slower and more easy of a target so...that only hurts the ones who choose not to fit a tank. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9449
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:16:00 -
[325] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So simply don't allow cargo expanders to be able to be fit to freighters. Though they will make themselves even slower and more easy of a target so...that only hurts the ones who choose not to fit a tank.
GǪor, much simpler, just accept that the tank is inherent in the ship and that it doesn't particularly need any more. If you have to start changing things that aren't related to the problem you're trying to solve, chances are that the problem is more invented than real.
Freighters have a massive tank as it is. The solution is to make use of it and not strain it by trying to protect more than it can protect. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Ghazu
164
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:18:00 -
[326] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So simply don't allow cargo expanders to be able to be fit to freighters. Though they will make themselves even slower and more easy of a target so...that only hurts the ones who choose not to fit a tank.
GǪor, much simpler, just accept that the tank is inherent in the ship and that it doesn't particularly need any more. If you have to start changing things that aren't related to the problem you're trying to solve, chances are that the problem is more invented than real. Freighters have a massive tank as it is. The solution is to make use of it and not strain it by trying to protect more than it can protect. Theory crafting with dumb people is futile and not recommended. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1699
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:18:00 -
[327] - Quote
Yokai mines in rookie systems, there is no level of safety powerful enough for him |
unloadedx16
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:25:00 -
[328] - Quote
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14561092
It took 6 Talos to gank a Freighter in highsec 0.5. That's less than half the cost of the Freighter. I mean I'm all for ganks and stuff guys but even in 0.5 that seems a bit unreasonable to me. A ship with no fitting slots with a sole purpose of transporting goods should be able to tank at least it's own hulls worth of ganker isk.
Am I the only one who sees something wrong here? Why does this community always rushes to such fast conclusions on things without even taking the time to look at the evidence. Sometimes slight balance changes are needed people. |
Samahiel Sotken
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:26:00 -
[329] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Then why not go and do something nobody has done before: gank fully tanked Damnation in 1.0 system.
I'm sorry, I'm running high sec interdiction on enemy logistics in two nullsec wars, flying in regularly nullsec fleet ops, running a nullsec PI setup and a High Sec manufacturing operation, ganking hulks, helping destroy more than 620 billion in freighters, still getting into small gang PVP brawls regularly, while ratting to keep my sec status up, and all on three characters on one account that is less than a year old. Are you not entertained? |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
2754
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:27:00 -
[330] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Tippia wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So simply don't allow cargo expanders to be able to be fit to freighters. Though they will make themselves even slower and more easy of a target so...that only hurts the ones who choose not to fit a tank.
GǪor, much simpler, just accept that the tank is inherent in the ship and that it doesn't particularly need any more. If you have to start changing things that aren't related to the problem you're trying to solve, chances are that the problem is more invented than real. Freighters have a massive tank as it is. The solution is to make use of it and not strain it by trying to protect more than it can protect. Theory crafting with dumb people is futile and not recommended.
:) Name calling, how cute and mature of you. |
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