Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.


Hope that's clear - trying my very best

Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.

Hope that's clear - trying my very best

If you are still open to critics and reviews, there are still a couple of things than needed to be clarified:

1 - With these changes all T2 ships will need the main requirement skill to be trained at level V, but for JF an exception will be opened? why? CCP doesn't want to give out 7M skill points to people? that door is already open for destroyers and battlecruisers!

Keep things consistent, do it right !

My sugestion:

- Keep all T2 requirements at level V, even if that means giving more free skill points.


2 - While checking out the pre-requisites changes of some of the ships one thing stands out, there was a huge attempt to keep training time the same as before creating hysterical requirements for some ships that is putting everybody bumping heads against a wall, some of the edge cases I found:

2a - carriers / supercarriers - removing the racial battleship V and we have less 40 days to train. But then you had Jump Fuel Conservation IV and Jump Drive Calibration III. I can accept this if it was done also for the dread and titan, but no! Why Capital Ships 4 for regular carriers? Adding the Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration skill at 1 as prerequisite to the Dread but not Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration I to carriers? Adding the Jump Portal Generation skill at 1 as requirement to Titans but not Doomsday Operation I, the most important weapon a titan can use? where is the consistency?

Keep things consistent, do it right !

My sugestion:

- First keep Capital Ships III for regular carriers and only increase it to IV for Supercarriers.
- Second add the same requirements to all the capital ships or none at all, IGÇÖm talking about had Jump Fuel Conservation IV and Jump Drive Calibration III
- Third keep things consistent between all capitals, if you add some specific requirements to some capitals, finish the job you started: Add Projected electronic counter measures I and Fighter Bombers I to Supercarriers ; Add Doomsday Operation I to Titans; Add Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration I and Fighters I to Carriers !

Keep things consistent, do it right !

2b - Siege Warfare V to fly Damnation; Armored Warfare V to fly the Vulture; Skirmish Warfare V to fly an Eos or Information Warfare V to fly a Claymore, really? Why train something that is not directly related with ship, the links and bonus the ship will give? That doesnGÇÖt make any sense, looking to your proposal only 2 of these skills make sense for each type of command ship: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63522/1/Commandshipchanges2.jpg

Keep things consistent, do it right !

My sugestion:

- If you really have the want to keep training times the same, instead of 4 requirements, keep only the requirements for the 2 skills that makes sense for each command ship (according with your proposal) and increase the training factor of the warfare skills from 2 to 3, instead of 9 days * 4 things will be 17 days * 2 and the times will be closer to what you want, just give the extra skill points to the persons that trained the skill and close this page in a clean way.

Keep things consistent, do it right !

3b - Cloaking 4 added as skill requirement of the Recon Ships skill !! Really, one of the recons donGÇÖt have the bonus to fit cloaking device T2, you know this right? Are you planning in giving both ships this bonus and forget to tell us?

Every time they simplify the game a little - there is a lot of difficulties still left... until it's not. A bittervet can remember learning skills, no warp-to-zero, old-school probing, and all that things that I have no idea of.

Clone costs in their current form are not something we as a design department are happy with. Beyond that we can't make commitments on the issue at this time.

You are a goon so I'll instantly assume you are trolling...But in case you are not...You want a lot of free stuff from ccp don't you? something like "instant gratification"?

3. Carriers/Dreads
- From my perspective if i will have alt in a wormhole - what is the reason for Jump Drive calibration, and Jump Fuel Conservation at this high lvl? I can understand other things - but why skills that only determine how far, and how cheap you can jump?

It's not ******* wasted. You can still fly battleships, can't you? Stop complaining.

Good for you. Now go sit in your corner while the adults are talking.

Good for you. Now go sit in your corner while the adults are talking.

Looks like you've got your work cut out when it comes to rebalancing the T1 industrials. Example: If you can hop into an Iteron V at skill level 1, people are unlikely to ever bother with the other Iteron versions.

One change I certainly do not like is merging the Navigation requirements for carrier into the skill requirements.

This will mess up my planned future skill progression (distant future, admittedly) quite a bit, since I had planned to learn the ship command part of the carrier requirements at the end of a PER/WIL mapping period, then remap for support skills (regular remap available by then) and learn the navigation part there.

That's no longer possible which means postponing carriers by a full year or burning another bonus remap, after the AI patch already ate my first :(.

I am concerned, and I have heard murmurings, that CCP will not reimburse the current battleship 5 requirement to fly capital ships. I have two characters whose sole purpose is to fly carriers and dreads and once these changes go through, my two characters and everyone else that has characters for dedicated capital roles is going have 1,984,000 SP of wasted training time.

Needless to say, if these changes go through without reimbursement, it is a ****-move and huge loss of goodwill on CCP's part.

Clone costs in their current form are not something we as a design department are happy with. Beyond that we can't make commitments on the issue at this time.

I did not see any mention of remaps in the dev blog. I suggest that the scope of these changes would make it fair to tack on two bonus remaps for every character in game that does not already have at least two in the bank on the day of the Great Skill Change (especially considering you did not give us the option to pick one up this past Christmas).

While I feel your pain ( I'm 5 days for Amarr BS 5) so I can cross-train carrier (I already fly Caldari).

It will be a huge problem for CCP to distinguish the ones that want to keep V because they want to use it to fly a marauder from the ones that have dedicated pilots for capitals. CCP cannot possible guess what each person wants and even if they went for something like, "file a petition to get your skills points back", the GMs will go on strike !

Against my our interests I say this and its a pain to admit it, but there is no way for CCP to give us the points back without creating a mess of procedure and I have to agree with them on this point and just accept it.

Clone costs in their current form are not something we as a design department are happy with. Beyond that we can't make commitments on the issue at this time.

Clone insurance maybe? Keep the reasonably high cost, but make it run for a fixed term like 90 or 180 days, and you're covered no matter how many times you get podded during that period. This way you still have an ISK sink for the 200m SP club, but nobody is discouraged from flying around in teeny weeny easy to pop ships.

Just make sure you don't ignore those warning mails you get when it's about to run out --- there would probably need to be a warning in big red letters that pops up and warns you if YOU'RE ABOUT TO UNDOCK WITHOUT CLONE INSURANCE ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS???!

To be honest.
1. Command ships changes are strange.
- Someone stated correctly - if i fly Shield Command ship -WHY THE HELL I NEED ARMOUR SKILLS! :)

2. Recons
- Cloaking IV as a prerequisite for a ship that will not a covert op cloak - WHY?

3. Carriers/Dreads
- From my perspective if i will have alt in a wormhole - what is the reason for Jump Drive calibration, and Jump Fuel Conservation at this high lvl? I can understand other things - but why skills that only determine how far, and how cheap you can jump?
- Dreads - Siege as a prerequisite - strange , i can still undock without a siege module ... and fly this ship - so why do i need it train before sitting in this ship?

4. Electronic Atack ships
- Long range targeting? WHY those are frigates, this 5% does not help much - and is not so important for this ship class!

Clone insurance maybe? Keep the reasonably high cost, but make it run for a fixed term like 90 or 180 days, and you're covered no matter how many times you get podded during that period. This way you still have an ISK sink for the 200m SP club, but nobody is discouraged from flying around in teeny weeny easy to pop ships.

Just make sure you don't ignore those warning mails you get when it's about to run out --- there would probably need to be a warning in big red letters that pops up and warns you if YOU'RE ABOUT TO UNDOCK WITHOUT CLONE INSURANCE ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS???!

Adding my voice to:

Command Ship requirements make no sense.
(Links for 'off-race' and generally neveruse situations.)

Carrier requirements make no sense.
(Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration and Fighters make more sense then Jump requirements)

Recons requirements make no sense.
(Cloaking skill for non-cloaky ships is absurd. How about making carriers require freighter skills.. oh wait THAT would make more sense since they do haul stuff around a lot.)

Adding my voice to:

Command Ship requirements make no sense.
(Links for 'off-race' and generally neveruse situations.)

Carrier requirements make no sense.
(Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration and Fighters make more sense then Jump requirements)

Recons requirements make no sense.
(Cloaking skill for non-cloaky ships is absurd. How about making carriers require freighter skills.. oh wait THAT would make more sense since they do haul stuff around a lot.)

I think this is spot on.
I don't think the passive boost skills should be needed to fly all command ships.

Ditto for Carriers and Cloaking on recons.
I appreciate training time should be kept roughly the same as now, but a better set of skills should be searched for.

Perhaps ...

Command Ships: Wing command ?
Recons: No idea there
Carriers: As above poster mentioned: Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration and/or fighters.
Dreads: the dread requiremetns should mirror the carrier ones. Keep them in line imo.