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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 39 post(s) |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
598
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:34:00 -
[211] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Just to clarify one valid question.
- Even if the prerequisites change, you can still fly the ship as long as you had the main skill before the overhaul. This is not in question here.
- However, if the prerequisites change, you cannot train the skill until the new prerequisites are met.
Ex:
- You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence, but not train Amarr Freighter past 1 until you have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 trained.
We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.
Umm ok I'll hold you to that if I wakeup after the expansion and find out I can't fly my Providence my subscription will be cancelled Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 |
Nightlund Audeles
The Halcyon Directive
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:35:00 -
[212] - Quote
Get ready for the massive flights of Orca's and people blowing them up after this! Training for an Orca in under a month? ROFL!!!! QQ? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3686
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:36:00 -
[213] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:MisterAl tt1 wrote:Iteron5 with skill req. at 1 ? You gotta be kidding. Maybe remove all different industrials at all, with 1 leaving for every race, in that case? Or give them different roles: Speed, survivability, volume, fleet hangar, fitting service, etc. I imagine this is probably what's going to happen when the industrials get tiericided.
I'm curious to see how CCP will handle the discrepancy between the availability of the racial variants of industrials. Amarr have two industrials Caldari have two industrials Minmatar have three industrials Gallente have five industrials, not counting the three special edition models Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Mai Khumm
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
442
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:37:00 -
[214] - Quote
Question!
Quote: "If, for some odd reason, you have Destroyers and/or Battlecruisers skills, but have no Racial Frigate/Cruiser 3 at all, then the skill points will be moved in the free allocation pool when the old skills are removed."
Let's say I'm training a character for...whatever role. And I have all Racial Cruiser skills at level 1 and have Battlecruisers at level 5, do I get reimbursed for just the SP I trained, or do I get the potential SP of the 4 Racial Battlecruisers put into the free allocation pool? *insert witty saying here* twitter - @AzamiNevinyrall |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
60
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:40:00 -
[215] - Quote
I actually have mixed feelings about changing carrier skill reqs to BS 3.
On one hand, unless you nail the future carrier changes with some really interesting bonuses this means we will never really see a thanatos or nidhoggur (or phoenix and naglfar).
However, the same effect allows rich alliances to feasibly buy multiple carriers per person for capital fleet concepts best suited to the situation at hand, which is a neat idea.
Would rather see (racial) capital shield/armor/cap transfer as pre-reqs than cap ships IV as well, but that's really a minor issue at best.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1569
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:41:00 -
[216] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:MisterAl tt1 wrote:Iteron5 with skill req. at 1 ? You gotta be kidding. Maybe remove all different industrials at all, with 1 leaving for every race, in that case? Or give them different roles: Speed, survivability, volume, fleet hangar, fitting service, etc. I imagine this is probably what's going to happen when the industrials get tiericided. I'm curious to see how CCP will handle the discrepancy between the availability of the racial variants of industrials. Amarr have two industrials Caldari have two industrials Minmatar have three industrials Gallente have five industrials, not counting the three special edition models More new ships! 3 Amarr and Caldari industrials and 2 for the Matari. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Illectroculus Defined
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
101
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:44:00 -
[217] - Quote
Shouldn't the requirements for Jump Freighter be raised to Racial Freigher V to keep it in line with other Tech II ships? |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
1588
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:44:00 -
[218] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:MisterAl tt1 wrote:Iteron5 with skill req. at 1 ? You gotta be kidding. Maybe remove all different industrials at all, with 1 leaving for every race, in that case? Or give them different roles: Speed, survivability, volume, fleet hangar, fitting service, etc.
Yep, that's what we are thinking. We'll get to them eventually as part of the tiericide initiative. |
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Nightlund Audeles
The Halcyon Directive
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:46:00 -
[219] - Quote
Oh and another thing, I would like to have the time spent training to mining barge V back please since you are removing it and making it way to easy to fly an Orca. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Fade 2 Black
362
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:46:00 -
[220] - Quote
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:@Fozzie: Freighters 5 as prereq for JF is gonna be a pain in the arse, good that I am set. Good that the needed skills to fly a ship correctly are now in the ship requirements like DD for titans and Warp Dis Gen for HICs.
Well, JF is the only T2 capital ship for now... I hope to see more T2 caps.... like a Combat carrier or a Logistic carrier. Black ops carrier? Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3686
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:46:00 -
[221] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:MisterAl tt1 wrote:Iteron5 with skill req. at 1 ? You gotta be kidding. Maybe remove all different industrials at all, with 1 leaving for every race, in that case? Or give them different roles: Speed, survivability, volume, fleet hangar, fitting service, etc. Yep, that's what we are thinking. We'll get to them eventually as part of the tiericide initiative. Sounds like in the interest of fairness you'll have to introduce 8 new industrial ships if you're planning on giving the Gallente ones separate roles. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3686
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:47:00 -
[222] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:Forlorn Wongraven wrote:@Fozzie: Freighters 5 as prereq for JF is gonna be a pain in the arse, good that I am set. Good that the needed skills to fly a ship correctly are now in the ship requirements like DD for titans and Warp Dis Gen for HICs. Well, JF is the only T2 capital ship for now... I hope to see more T2 caps.... like a Combat carrier or a Logistic carrier. Black ops carrier? Strictly speaking, and regardless of what the market window says, freighters, jump freighters, and Orcas are not capital ships. They don't require the capital ships skill. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Fade 2 Black
362
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:48:00 -
[223] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:MisterAl tt1 wrote:Iteron5 with skill req. at 1 ? You gotta be kidding. Maybe remove all different industrials at all, with 1 leaving for every race, in that case? Or give them different roles: Speed, survivability, volume, fleet hangar, fitting service, etc. Yep, that's what we are thinking. We'll get to them eventually as part of the tiericide initiative.
I want a ship that compres Minerals into refinned minerals! Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
95
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:49:00 -
[224] - Quote
It has been stated several times, that CCP will first balance ships, then change skills. Does it mean all mentioned ships (including Titans and Moms) would be rebalanced till summer? Hmm, Fozzie better get ready to live at his workplace.
Also, a battleship in two days? Hell yeah, noobs gonna suffer! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3686
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:50:00 -
[225] - Quote
Most noobs that train to fly a battleship in two days aren't going to be able to afford them. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Ma'ax
Caldari Deep Space Ventures Tribal Band
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:50:00 -
[226] - Quote
wowsa, very impressed with the thoroughness of the plan and the clarity of the presentation. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
1588
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:52:00 -
[227] - Quote
Nightlund Audeles wrote:Oh and another thing, I would like to have the time spent training to mining barge V back please since you are removing it and making it way to easy to fly an Orca.
Nope, sorry Mining Barge V is useful to get Exhumers however. Don't you like the soft, hypnotizing hum of Strip Miners? Dssssshh dssssshhh dsssssssh dssssssshhhh dsssssssshhhh. |
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Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
95
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:54:00 -
[228] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Most noobs that train to fly a battleship in two days aren't going to be able to afford them. PLEX to win. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:55:00 -
[229] - Quote
Capqu wrote: Defeats the "T2 is specialization" thing you guys are going for when using T2 hybrids requires you to specialize in all the smaller hybrids first.
The specialization is in BLASTERS vs RAILGUNS. Both are hybrid weapons.
No logic flaw in the specialization concept at all.
|
Illectroculus Defined
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
101
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:55:00 -
[230] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Forlorn Wongraven wrote:@Fozzie: Freighters 5 as prereq for JF is gonna be a pain in the arse, good that I am set. Good that the needed skills to fly a ship correctly are now in the ship requirements like DD for titans and Warp Dis Gen for HICs. We aren't adding Freighters 5 as the Jump Freighter requirement, at least not for a good while. We considered it, but the prospect of giving 7 million skill points extra wasn't appealing.
But the thought of receiving 7 million skill points extra is appealing. |
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
285
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:57:00 -
[231] - Quote
With all these changes, how about a 'one-off' complete SP reset for all subscribers?
Come on, after 10 years, it's about time we shake it up |
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
192
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:58:00 -
[232] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:*Chokes*..
All command links to 5 to use Command Ships? Even if they're completely irrelevant to the ship being flown?
You do not need the command links to V but the basic Warfare Skills to V.
The skills relevant to the command links are the specialist skills, not the basic ones.
For example,
you need Armored Wafare V, not Armored Wafare Specialist V. you need Information Warfare V, not Information Warfare Specialist V. you need Siege Warfare V, not Siege Warfare Specialist V. you need Skirmish Warfare V, not Skirmish Warfare Specialist V. you need Warfare Link Specilst IV.
|
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 17:58:00 -
[233] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Just to clarify one valid question.
- Even if the prerequisites change, you can still fly the ship as long as you had the main skill before the overhaul. This is not in question here.
- However, if the prerequisites change, you cannot train the skill until the new prerequisites are met.
Ex:
- You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence, but not train Amarr Freighter past 1 until you have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 trained.
We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.
Awesome clarification. Thanks.
I have small hope that it will stop the fail posts, though :). |
fukier
RISE of LEGION
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 18:02:00 -
[234] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Most noobs that train to fly a battleship in two days aren't going to be able to afford them.
thats what plex is for right? At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3686
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 18:04:00 -
[235] - Quote
Which is why I said most. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Alcius
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 18:07:00 -
[236] - Quote
For me it looks like the promise GÇ£if you could fly it before, you can fly it nowGÇ¥ is broken here in big parts.
I-¦m totally unhappy with the approach of the changes in regard of older players. These changes might be an easier way for newer players to get into specific hulls, but the reimbursements and some of these changes hurt older players very hard. I know that usually there are always some victims within such deep changes, but parts are really p'$5145 me off (and I-¦m rather a calm person). On paper these changes might look good from a beginners point, but not if you are capable, trained and used to fly different ships already. These players will loose to much of their playstyles and flexibilitiy.
Destroyers and Battlecruisers: Currently I have trained both of these skills to level 5 and all additional requirements meet to fly every Tier1 Destroyer/Battlecruiser of every faction with maximum bonuses. So if I got this right, I will get a reimbursement and can reinvest in the approriate racial skill - BUT ONLY FOR ONE AT LEVEL 5 AGAIN. That means that I loose 3/4 of my bonuses of these ships, since I get only enough skill points to maximize one race to level 5. Apart that I will also have to buy the skillbooks, right? I don-¦t care here, that I might be able to fly them with level 1, but the time it will take me to be at the same skill level again.
Cruisers/Battlecruisers/Battleships requirements: Since Cruisers now require the respective racial Destroyer skill at level 3, what happens to these, if I only get enough skill points reimbursed to maximize racial Destroyer/Battlecruiser skill? E.g. currently having Destroyers/Battlecruisers at 5; and I like to fly the Cormorant, Arbitrator, Hurricane and Dominix. After the changes I cannot fly these, until I have the proper Racial prerequired skills trained, but I do not get enough reimbursement points to be at the same level and forced to decide which of these vessels I have to sacrifice for a while.
Impacts on fittings: Well, since you will loose different ship bonuses, you won-¦t be able to use the current fittings or at least they will loose their power. Yay - NOT!
Industrials/Orca: These changes are exaggerated! I mean Iteron V from 24d down to 33 minutes!?! WoOt, everyone will only use them instead of the other industrials, because of the cargo capacity/training time in comparison. I also feel betrayed here.
Swapping skills: With these changes you also break promisses, since if the player doesn-¦t have the other skill trained to the required level, he won-¦t be able to fly this. Especially Command Ships and Freighter changes are very rough! That-¦s over ~ one month of training!!! Direkt impact on Electronic Attack Ships, Command Ships, as well as Interdictors, Heavy Assault Ships, Recon Ships, Heavy Interdictors as well - isn-¦t that too much at a time?!
Reimbursement statement: This is just simply not enough. You should reimburse the players in a way, that they suffer as little as possible. I mean it-¦s not our mistake that you rebalance this, so why should we be the ones taking the hit? We should be able to remain at our current achieved skill ranks and ships. If it would only mean to have to train up some skills in less than a week, that-¦s ok, but in many cases it will rather take several weeks. There should be either given out additional free skill points, remaps or special one-time implants/boosters which speed up the training. Also originally your quote "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" should have been expanded with "at the same level". I comes to my mind that you might not have taken into account, that players actually have training plans, which you are messing up in big parts.
There is simply not enough wine and cheese for these changes... |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1570
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 18:08:00 -
[237] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Most noobs that train to fly a battleship in two days aren't going to be able to afford them. PLEX to win. Win for who? The one who shoots said 2 day old pilot who got in a BS? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
193
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 18:09:00 -
[238] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Forlorn Wongraven wrote:@Fozzie: Freighters 5 as prereq for JF is gonna be a pain in the arse, good that I am set. Good that the needed skills to fly a ship correctly are now in the ship requirements like DD for titans and Warp Dis Gen for HICs. We aren't adding Freighters 5 as the Jump Freighter requirement, at least not for a good while. We considered it, but the prospect of giving 7 million skill points extra wasn't appealing.
Once again, do it right, if all other t2 ships need training the correspondent requirement skill to V, why open an exception?
Just do it right and keep it consistent with your own revamp plan please. If that means you have to give 7M skill points, ups!
Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3687
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 18:09:00 -
[239] - Quote
Alcius wrote:For me it looks like the promise GÇ£if you could fly it before, you can fly it nowGÇ¥ is broken here in big parts.
I-¦m totally unhappy with the approach of the changes in regard of older players. These changes might be an easier way for newer players to get into specific hulls, but the reimbursements and some of these changes hurt older players very hard. I know that usually there are always some victims within such deep changes, but parts are really p'$5145 me off (and I-¦m rather a calm person). On paper these changes might look good from a beginners point, but not if you are capable, trained and used to fly different ships already. These players will loose to much of their playstyles and flexibilitiy.
Destroyers and Battlecruisers: Currently I have trained both of these skills to level 5 and all additional requirements meet to fly every Tier1 Destroyer/Battlecruiser of every faction with maximum bonuses. So if I got this right, I will get a reimbursement and can reinvest in the approriate racial skill - BUT ONLY FOR ONE AT LEVEL 5 AGAIN. That means that I loose 3/4 of my bonuses of these ships, since I get only enough skill points to maximize one race to level 5. Apart that I will also have to buy the skillbooks, right? I don-¦t care here, that I might be able to fly them with level 1, but the time it will take me to be at the same skill level again.
Cruisers/Battlecruisers/Battleships requirements: Since Cruisers now require the respective racial Destroyer skill at level 3, what happens to these, if I only get enough skill points reimbursed to maximize racial Destroyer/Battlecruiser skill? E.g. currently having Destroyers/Battlecruisers at 5; and I like to fly the Cormorant, Arbitrator, Hurricane and Dominix. After the changes I cannot fly these, until I have the proper Racial prerequired skills trained, but I do not get enough reimbursement points to be at the same level and forced to decide which of these vessels I have to sacrifice for a while.
Impacts on fittings: Well, since you will loose different ship bonuses, you won-¦t be able to use the current fittings or at least they will loose their power. Yay - NOT!
Industrials/Orca: These changes are exaggerated! I mean Iteron V from 24d down to 33 minutes!?! WoOt, everyone will only use them instead of the other industrials, because of the cargo capacity/training time in comparison. I also feel betrayed here.
Swapping skills: With these changes you also break promisses, since if the player doesn-¦t have the other skill trained to the required level, he won-¦t be able to fly this. Especially Command Ships and Freighter changes are very rough! That-¦s over ~ one month of training!!! Direkt impact on Electronic Attack Ships, Command Ships, as well as Interdictors, Heavy Assault Ships, Recon Ships, Heavy Interdictors as well - isn-¦t that too much at a time?!
Reimbursement statement: This is just simply not enough. You should reimburse the players in a way, that they suffer as little as possible. I mean it-¦s not our mistake that you rebalance this, so why should we be the ones taking the hit? We should be able to remain at our current achieved skill ranks and ships. If it would only mean to have to train up some skills in less than a week, that-¦s ok, but in many cases it will rather take several weeks. There should be either given out additional free skill points, remaps or special one-time implants/boosters which speed up the training. Also originally your quote "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" should have been expanded with "at the same level". I comes to my mind that you might not have taken into account, that players actually have training plans, which you are messing up in big parts.
There is simply not enough wine and cheese for these changes... aosidjgpaoiejgpoaigjepaowiuhgapoisejfpaoijfeapowiiejfapoijgfoiaopuihjpowsj -p9*UHJAP_(USHP_)(U*HR_F(*UH( Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3687
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 18:11:00 -
[240] - Quote
(Translation: Call an ambulance, I just had a blood vessel explode in my brain) Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
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