I'd like to re-voice my support the new Armageddon. While some players are sad to see the missioning Apoc go, I'd like to point out that the Armageddon could easily take its place, using range-bonused Nos on NPCs to sustain a beastly active tank while using capless missile/drone fire that has great range projection . I currently use a missile/drone Typhoon with Noses for running C3 anoms solo, and I can definitely see myself switching to this sweet new Geddon for that very same task. I like my utility highs and my capacitor warfare, and I think those are very underrated things.

A long time ago I heard the "fun" begins when you hit T2 ships for Amarr, since they can offer something "special" rather than just lasers/armor. I'm definitely very glad to see special "neat tricks" being added to T1 hulls!

Heavy neuts, drones, and thick armor are great IMO. I've been specializing in the Dragoon/Arbitrator type hulls for a little while now, and definitely look forward to something beefier for heavier gangs.

<3 these changes

Lucky, your Navy Geddon is safe - it pulls its bonuses from a different list.

Of course minmatar can instantly swap to an ammo with a 50% optimal bonus at the drop of a hat, oh wait...

But seriously, I do agree that all BS's, especially amarr need a much much much bigger capacitor, like 50% more than they have now, it shouldn't, nor is it mandatory with any other ship class to fit a cap booster just to keep your guns going.

I feel like if the new geddon is to follow the line of Arbitrator/Prophecy, it should be a 6H 4M 8L slot layout.

It would give it more room to fit tank, since it's supposed to be a front line combat ship. While still having room to focus on drone damage over weapons. It would also be limiting its max neut throughput, making it step less on the toes of the Bhaal while keeping its new range niche.

Though on some level, I expected that the Abaddon would be the Battleship Prophecy followup. While the Geddon kept the lasers with a rate of fire bonus and replaced the cap use bonus with drone damage. But that would make for some ridiculous damage potential.

The Apoc feels like it needs more power grid. An Oracle can fit a full rack of T2 Tachyons with 233 power to spare - plenty to fit its 10mn prop mod and an assortment of other modules. The Apoc, even after the +500 grid will be 3450 power short just to fit just the full rack of T2 Tach. The change barely allows you to fit a no-prop paper Apoc with T2 Tachyons - after you put a T2 reactor control in a low slot. You shouldn't need two power rigs just to fit the dedicated sniper battleship for sniping. Especially when a battlecruiser already fits them just fine, with a damage bonus. Though I guess with range and tracking being the bonuses, one could argue the Apoc is meant as a Pulse platform and is not meant to actually fit beams at all.

[quoteAre the faction versions of these battleships also going to have these changes ?]

There are exactly 2 ships in the game that can fit tachs properly:
1) Paladin: Barely can, it gets Powergrid issues if you try to be creative.
2) Nightmare: fine. This ship frankly makes all Amarr battleships obsolete for PvE including 1). The ultimate expression of how useless armor tanking is within the realm of PvE.

Both are 100% bonused/half rack ships. If I were to go on a limp I would say they don't intend to change this and tachs will remain for those two ships. Everyone else gets pulse or beams.

Wtf are you on about? Baddon has nowhere near the dps and the tank capability of a navy geddon, even napocs doesn't have them. By your logic every ship on the Amarr BS line is a "great" PVE ship. That's hardly relevant.

You try fitting elutriation rig and Tachyons on Apocalypse. C'mon. Go ahead. I'll wait right here.

Point is not everyone has gazzilion skillpoints. There needs to be at least one newbie-friendly PvE hull in the lineup out there, purely from the game design and balance perspective.



Yeah, because you totally need to train up that many capacitor skills for other races, for example Minmatar. They need such a huge number of skillpoints to allow their guns to keep firing without running out of cap! Oh, wait...

No. Armageddon Navy Issue currently has the highest DPS capability of any hull in the Amarr/Laserboat BS shipline with almost 200dps higher than the two times more expensive Nightmare fully fitted. Get your facts straight before you post.

Hi again,
some opinions on the Amarr changes:

The neut bonus is a good idea, and very powerful. It will give players an effective tool against logistics and nano ships. However, as a drone boat, the Geddon with its currrent changes will outshine the Domi and there is no way that is going to change as long as you want to it to be both a drone and a neut boat. Using drones as a main weapon system mitigates many of the problems neutralizers normally have (grid+cap usage). Drone ships do also inherently have powerful defensive capabilites like being less vulnerable to jamming, dampening, frigate swams etc. Look at the Domi: Neuts are already powerful on it, and that's even though it only has 6 highs, no bonus and can't even fit a full rack of heavy neuts due to lack of grid. Giving one ship a bonus to both drones and neuts is therefore going to make it pretty overpowered.

I also have to agree with many of the previous posters: To me as a rather old player, drones seem a bit un-amarrish. I like flying Prophecies, but when I think of Amarr, I still think of lasers bringing justice to the infidels.

One possible solution: Make the Geddon a turret/neut platform more similar to a Bhaal than a Dragoon. Simply switch out the laser cap bonus for neut range and keep the rof bonus. Keep the 125m-¦ drone bay and compensate with another high slot. Give it 5 hardpoints. 5 lasers and 3 neuts plus drones should do plenty of damage but also eat cap like there's no tomorrow, which would give the ship a weak point for its enemies to exploit. The additional high slot would also make it possible to bring 8 heavy neuts instead of 7 for when you need to break Basi/Guardian chains. You'd lose a large part of the dps though, which the drone variant would no. Seems like a fair tredeoff to me.


I'm not sure about the Apoc. It does anemic dps, but its double bonuses to projection might make it worthwhile in some situations. Younger Amarr players might find it difficult to fit a good PvE boat when no single Amarr BS with cap usage bonus remains. I think a better solution could be found here, but I'm not sure what it might look like.


The Abbaddon change is absolutely fine, imo. Redusing the resist bonus to 4% brings it in line with other bonuses without losing variety in the process. (I'm trusting this will be done on all ships with resist bonuses...)

The Armageddon's Neut range bonus is too much. I honestly fail to understand why you (CCP Rise) think that this isn't an extremely powerful bonus. I would far prefer this ship is given a tracking disruptor bonus and pushed into the Disruption battleship (DBS) role. Also, only giving it 75M/Bit or at the most 100 M/Bit bandwidth would make sense when in the DBS role and then it doesn't tread on the Dominix's toes so much

Never change a running system, baddon need more cap at least. the only thing that change is effected at the abbadon that you must grind even longer structure.

how about changing the geddon to have 4 heavies and give it a 5% laser damage instead of neut range bonus and then remove the launchers.
this way domi is still better droneboat and geddon isn't an OP neuty droneboat missile ship....
Oh and reduce the mass of all battleships by a couple of million to boost align time.
And if you want attack bs to use AB's you will need to buff AB's somewhat like reduce the mass of them they shouldn't have the same mass as an mwd, a web resistance inbuilt would help and a bigger speed boost.

Everyone else has to eat ammo. It seems only fair that the Amarr have to eat cap boosters.

Reducing the mass and increasing the thrust amount of 100mn ABs would be building in 'some web resist'.

Surely has been cleared already, but use discharge elutrations and a cap booster! All the amarr pilots I know don't complain in the slightest once they fitted that stuff GÖÑ

The Armageddon's Neut range bonus is too much. I honestly fail to understand why you (CCP Rise) think that this isn't an extremely powerful bonus. I would far prefer this ship is given a tracking disruptor bonus and pushed into the Disruption battleship (DBS) role. Also, only giving it 75M/Bit or at the most 100 M/Bit bandwidth would make sense when in the DBS role and then it doesn't tread on the Dominix's toes so much

But using ammo isn't forcing you to fit dedicated modules for it, is it? And for cap boosters you have to use med slot don't you? never mind that you can put only couple cap boosters in cargo, which will most likely not last for whole mission.
Think before you write something, please

PvE? So you can run your armor reps cap stable and are complaining about the guns... hmhm. And you got over 500m-¦ of cargo, you can't tell me you cannot clear a mission before you run through those.

The only problem I see with your suggestions is for it to both be firing lasers and neuts your going to need at leastdual cap boosters to even pretend at being cap stable, probably even a 3rd to counter probable return nuets, at which point this boat isn't doing anything else.

I'll leave this right here:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/73530

By CCP Ytterbium
Armageddon: this ship is performing well at the time being, and thus we have little reason to alter it.
Apocalypse: is behaving well at the moment, so there is little point in changing it.
Abbadon: a nice ship with fine purpose in fleets and large gangs.

Playing round with EFT, I think the Apoc (and other laser BS) need CPU and Power Grid at least as much as cap, or Tachs need their fitting requirements relaxed a good deal - even more than running dry on cap (laser boats are hardly the only ships with this problem), it's hard to even fit the things.

amarr are meant to be cap problematic even with perfect skills, but the removing of the cap use boni is still good so when like i said before the cap is properly adjusted on the hull.

Well the web resist would be useful on all sizes but they need to give more reasons to use an AB as with an AB you will be brawling rather than kiting and webs are so strong they make AB's largely pointless at that point.