Upon further thought.. The Dominix might end up being too good for its own good.

No, it doesn't have a neuting amount bonus. But who needs that if you have 100 Dominix in fleet?

100+ cap-chaining heavy neut-fit Dominix with T2 sentries will be a 50km sphere of instakill (and of course viable beyond that range as well). There's no way for brawlers to kill them, they will just get capped out.

It looks like a really fun fleet concept until you realize that the best counter to this is the same counter all battleship fleets have.. Alphafleet. Yet even more alpha proliferation, which is pretty damn boring.

Hi again,
some opinions on the Amarr changes:

The neut bonus is a good idea, and very powerful. It will give players an effective tool against logistics and nano ships. However, as a drone boat, the Geddon with its currrent changes will outshine the Domi and there is no way that is going to change as long as you want to it to be both a drone and a neut boat. Using drones as a main weapon system mitigates many of the problems neutralizers normally have (grid+cap usage). Drone ships do also inherently have powerful defensive capabilites like being less vulnerable to jamming, dampening, frigate swams etc. Look at the Domi: Neuts are already powerful on it, and that's even though it only has 6 highs, no bonus and can't even fit a full rack of heavy neuts due to lack of grid. Giving one ship a bonus to both drones and neuts is therefore going to make it pretty overpowered.

I also have to agree with many of the previous posters: To me as a rather old player, drones seem a bit un-amarrish. I like flying Prophecies, but when I think of Amarr, I still think of lasers bringing justice to the infidels.

One possible solution: Make the Geddon a turret/neut platform more similar to a Bhaal than a Dragoon. Simply switch out the laser cap bonus for neut range and keep the rof bonus. Keep the 125m-¦ drone bay and compensate with another high slot. Give it 5 hardpoints. 5 lasers and 3 neuts plus drones should do plenty of damage but also eat cap like there's no tomorrow, which would give the ship a weak point for its enemies to exploit. The additional high slot would also make it possible to bring 8 heavy neuts instead of 7 for when you need to break Basi/Guardian chains. You'd lose a large part of the dps though, which the drone variant would no. Seems like a fair tredeoff to me.


I'm not sure about the Apoc. It does anemic dps, but its double bonuses to projection might make it worthwhile in some situations. Younger Amarr players might find it difficult to fit a good PvE boat when no single Amarr BS with cap usage bonus remains. I think a better solution could be found here, but I'm not sure what it might look like.


The Abbaddon change is absolutely fine, imo. Redusing the resist bonus to 4% brings it in line with other bonuses without losing variety in the process. (I'm trusting this will be done on all ships with resist bonuses...)

These changes make Bhaalgorn and Nightmare not worth using anymore with their price tags since these will be so much cheaper...

Also great way to butcher Apocalypse that many liked to run missions with without constantly eating cap booster charges...

...You are telling kil2 that he doesn't understand anything about Amarr? wat.

God damn the amount of stupidity in this thread....

Very nice changes. They make Amarr BSs way more versatile. Love the new Geddon!

He could be the godfather of the Empress herself, but without having final say on the matter, which is doubtful as he is still a CCP Youn'un, the result may be far from what he envisioned .. critique is valid enough as he is the spear-/figurehead of the changes.

Yes Amarr ships are good in blobs, we already covered that .. problem is that it will be their only function, perpetual blob ships (when people run out of tier3 BC at any rate) with very little hope outside .. all the other races are made viable in all size engagement. Only the Geddon will ever cross a null border as it alone has any hope (however slim) against the competition.

Having three laser ships is not a problem, Amarr is lasers for christs sake. The only deviations (until tiericide) was a single frig and the eWar platforms .. there is plenty of variation possible with an all (or mostly) gun layout.
The changes since tiericide has completely ignored nine years of lore as pertains to racial flavours, no wonder the evelopedia is hopelessly behind as they will quite literally have to rewrite everything which is a lot.

Without some form of explanation of their chosen path I shall maintain my opposition to everything they do as it appears to be a massive homogenization/dumbing-down of Eve in the hunt for the almighty dollar that catering to the fickle/casual gamers promises ..

Amarr was never about versatility, it was all projection and staying power with versatility only possible if chopping off one's feet and hands .. don't get me wrong, it is nice, but it erodes the soul of what it is to fly Amarr.

Unless you only gank then you already hull tank as balance between ships has been fine tuned this year to a point where no matchup is a guaranteed win and winner more often than not surviving in flames (ie. hull).

Well, thats quite something!

Lasers:

We really ought to talk about lasers, we really need a flat out -25% or even -33% cap use on ALL lasers. As is amarr ships are capping out way to fast, and that leaves them quite sub par with their counterparts.

Especially since we are all hailing king Hyperion and Pope megathorn now. Lasers as they are now simply dont offer enough of a benefit to offset that cap malus.

Yeah scorch is nice, bla bla (its the only reason lasers are even remote viable anyway...), but lasers use too much cap, in both pve and pvp settings.

And lets put it like that; even if you were to cut laser cap by 50%, you still wouldnt see myrmidons or dominixes fir lasers, despite omg-op-h4x-scorch....

Everyone else has to eat ammo. It seems only fair that the Amarr have to eat cap boosters.

+10% to Drone damage and Hit Points (replaced large energy turret rate of fire)
+10% Energy Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range (replaced large energy turret cap use)

a mini bhaalgorn?

And this just further proves my point that A) the Apoc needs Cap love to be proper, as not all PvP fleets will be able to support it's Cap needs (even at max skills, it doesn't have enough cap to be anything like stable), and that Tach's need some love if we are seriously going to see them being used on T1 hulls.

As a relatively fresh player I can only say that taking away Apocalypse cap use bonus is a horrible idea and you should feel bad for even thinking it was good.

This really screws over low-skilled Amarr players, especially in PvE. This thing is barely capstable as it is with only guns and hardeners running without great capacitor/cap use skills.

Well, unless you cut all Large Energy Turrets cap use by 50% across the board with no strings attached... then yeah, bring it on! Otherwise - take a step back, rethink this fumble and think of the little guy out there.

or, maybe get your skills up to par for a battleship?

Surely has been cleared already, but use discharge elutrations and a cap booster! All the amarr pilots I know don't complain in the slightest once they fitted that stuff GÖÑ



Also, I'm extremely happy this new Geddon is coming in summer, and not just for christmas. Cause that thing belongs under a tree.

I'm unable to comment fleet warfare, so abaddon looks totally fine for me, given it was a decent ship to boot.
The apoc though... holy crappers. Tracking Bonus appears as a huge deal for me, especially in a moment of apocs vs. missile-spouting battlecruisers, this could tip the balance a lot.


Back to the geddon: Are you mental? This Geddon is working exactly the niche that the curse had for itself, though 10times the mass. Personally I'd like to urge you to rethink the neutrange bonus, neutrange boni are extremely powerful, especially paired up with Gardes and a mate to tackle things. In addition, the domi looks like a PvE-variation of the armageddon right now.

or, maybe get your skills up to par for a battleship?

Yes Amarr ships are good in blobs, we already covered that .. problem is that it will be their only function, perpetual blob ships (when people run out of tier3 BC at any rate) with very little hope outside .. all the other races are made viable in all size engagement. Only the Geddon will ever cross a null border as it alone has any hope (however slim) against the competition.

Having three laser ships is not a problem, Amarr is lasers for christs sake. The only deviations (until tiericide) was a single frig and the eWar platforms .. there is plenty of variation possible with an all (or mostly) gun layout.
The changes since tiericide has completely ignored nine years of lore as pertains to racial flavours, no wonder the evelopedia is hopelessly behind as they will quite literally have to rewrite everything which is a lot.

I've been watching the other threads as well, there just doesn't seem to be as much to comment on in the others. I'll go do a lap through them now to make sure I haven't missed anything big.

range + damage bonus on the apoc

Yeah, because you totally need to train up that many capacitor skills for other races, for example Minmatar. They need such a huge number of skillpoints to allow their guns to keep firing without running out of cap! Oh, wait...

So... I guess my Navy Geddon just became worthless...