You realize the Gallente are stuck with Thermic/Kinetic right? Also Amarr get way better T2 armor resists than Gallente =\

However, I partially agree with the rest of your points. Lasers need small touch ups, though I think the new fitting requirements are a huge step in the right direction. Capacitor is mostly fine, lasers also get the benefit of instant range changes and the most glorious ammo, Scorch.

The Abaddon should never be cap stable, in my opinion. As for the Apocalypse, from what I've played around in it on SiSi I've enjoyed it very fondly. The tracking bonus makes it quite a bit better at the shorter ranges, although this IS slightly an odd choice considering the ranges it prefers to engage at with its optimal range bonus.

I think the "new breed" of Amarr drone pilots are going to really appreciate the new Armageddon though, for what it's worth that the older Armageddon pilots are losing.

To be fair, 99% of Amarr in PvP will be using Scorch which is almost entirely EM damage while it's my understanding Gallente have a good mix of Kin/Therm.

Also I will never call the laser capacitor's "mostly fine" as long as Mega-Beams take the same amount of cap as Tachyon's which is 300% that of Rails given their relative popularity in the current metagame and performance with each other. As long as this is the case, no one will touch beams over Scorch. I trust CCP Rise realizes this and will consider it in their upcoming rebalance. As soon as the Napoc can take Scorch out to 90+km I think the laser rebalance will come even sooner.

I will admit I wasn't aware that Mega Beams had the same cap requirements as Tachyons. Tachyons are way nicer for sniping though, imo. Railguns are kind of incredibly lame and most agree on that.

You are correct that hybrids mix thermic/kinetic fairly evenly (55/45 or 50/50 depending on ammo) but your comment about "every other race gets to pick damage types" is baloney because Gallente and Caldari (minus missile boats) can't. Which means a vast amount of ships in the game can't do it.

mmm... Amarr are too reliant on scorch . solutions
- nerf scorch a little and switch its damage so its a little more therm
- buff other crystals
- maybe add a T3 ammo type to all weapon systems that give a nice in-between of long range and short range ammo with a slight boost to tracking aswell. a jack of all trades ammo type.
so in crystals it would be a mix of Faction multi-scorch-conflag.

The problem isn't entirely with Scorch it's also because the alternative's to Scorch are incredibly bad. No reason whatsoever currently to tear out your hair trying to make a rack of Mega Beams fit and able to fire for a reasonable amount of time and Tach's are beyond hope of fitting. Until these problems are solved Scorch will be their only option.

Once beams are fixed, I agree Scorch needs to be looked at especially when a Napoc can bring them out to 90+km which I don't expect to survive the laser rebalance.

I never said that about the damage types, I think it was someone else.

Medium Railguns definitely need work but Large at least get use in Rokh fleets. Beams are used by no one except newer pilots who haven't taken the 3 months to train Scorch yet or Nightmare pilots.

...oh yes and Oracle pilots because it's a balanced system when an ABC can fit and fire a full rack of Tach's but no BS can without gimping the fit.

I think Conflag crystals should work more like Void (yeah I know a lot of people hate void but whatever). Void has extra range over Antimatter and increased DPS with a tracking and capacitor drawback. With how conflag works currently, it's just slightly higher DPS over Multifrequency with no other benefits, but all the downsides.

You are correct that hybrids mix thermic/kinetic fairly evenly (55/45 or 50/50 depending on ammo) but your comment about "every other race gets to pick damage types" is baloney because Gallente and Caldari (minus missile boats) can't. Which means a vast amount of ships in the game can't do it.

... In the end, the Armageddon, as hated as it can be from amarr fanatics, is the best pve machine amarr could dream of.

...The Abaddon should never be cap stable, in my opinion.

I didnGÇÖt GÇ£quiteGÇ¥ say that either. You can accuse me of an exaggeration in driving a point home but the fact remains that half the major weapons systems (or more depending on how you classify drones) can and the ships specializing in those limited two have fallen out of favor in part because of it as they are too easily countered. Missiles in particular are seeing buffs this round. Perhaps, hybrid ammo needs some work once they get to medium rails? But none of that changes the fact that laser crystals are deserving of a look now.


It depends on how we choose to define cap stable. If a ship canGÇÖt sustain the fire of its own guns under burner then there is an issue from my perspective. I can forgive a shipGÇÖs cap buckling under the pressure of maintaining an active repair unit for its size class in conjunction with everything else after a couple of minutes but if it canGÇÖt shoot its own guns... Am I expecting too much out of battleships? Even of a buffered Abaddon?

You do realize, I didn't said about T1, or what not. (NM and Rattlesnake are, technically, T1, if you didn't know.)
I just recounted the set of ships I see frequently in the mission hubs I'm using for LP stockpiling.
I should probably add Dominix Navy Issue to the list, but it was flying by only one pilot. Although, it was seemingly omnipresent.

In the end, the Armageddon, as hated as it can be from amarr fanatics, is the best pve machine amarr could dream of.

I have been playing around with the Armageddon on Singularity, and I would actually say that the Armageddon is now a pure PVP ship, and it's not really suited for PVE. Eve being what it is has this sorts of division. Few would bring a current Raven to a fight, but it's pretty good for PVE. The Armageddon will be the anti-Raven.

I tested it out, and I could one-shot the cap out of a megathron. My alt in her megathron (at level 5 Gallente BS) has 6075 cap units. With a full rack of 7 heavy neutralisers at 600 GJ neuted cap per second, I drained my alt nearly instantly. Now imagine this applied to cruisers, battle-cruisers, etc. There was nothing the alt could do once the neuters started running. The only thing is a low dps with drones, but you would never field the new geddon alone anyway. The DPS would be applied by others.

I love this new Armageddon. It's going to be wicked in small gangs. It's going to be able to insta-cap-out most of what it will meet on the field. A gang of Neutageddons will threaten even cap ships. Imagine ten of these with 70 neutralisers going at 600 GJ per 24 seconds. My alt (the same as with the megathron) has about 75k cap in her thannie.

I have been playing around with the Armageddon on Singularity, and I would actually say that the Armageddon is now a pure PVP ship, and it's not really suited for PVE. Eve being what it is has this sorts of division. Few would bring a current Raven to a fight, but it's pretty good for PVE. The Armageddon will be the anti-Raven.

I tested it out, and I could one-shot the cap out of a megathron. My alt in her megathron (at level 5 Gallente BS) has 6075 cap units. With a full rack of 7 heavy neutralisers at 600 GJ neuted cap per second, I drained my alt nearly instantly. Now imagine this applied to cruisers, battle-cruisers, etc. There was nothing the alt could do once the neuters started running. The only thing is a low dps with drones, but you would never field the new geddon alone anyway. The DPS would be applied by others.

I love this new Armageddon. It's going to be wicked in small gangs. It's going to be able to insta-cap-out most of what it will meet on the field. A gang of Neutageddons will threaten even cap ships. Imagine ten of these with 70 neutralisers going at 600 GJ per 24 seconds. My alt (the same as with the megathron) has about 75k cap in her thannie.

The strength of the Armageddon as a neut boat comes from the drone damage. Unless you're specifically finding the extra range the killing factor, the 600 GJ/sec is somewhat...misleading. An Abaddon, or Domi, for instance, can neut the exact same amount- actually the Abaddon can neut more.

The bonus is only to range- so how useful would you say that bonus is?

Secondly, yes, you are expecting (a little) too much out of the ships. A Megathron isn't cap stable running its guns + mwd (it gets an extra 30 seconds or so over the Abaddon depending on skill levels) but the principal is the same.

You do realize that standard Abaddon fit uses 2 discharge elutriation rigs? And has to use capacitor batteries constantly to get that run time? Mega is cap stable while eating batteries. Abaddon has only 0.8 more peak cap recharge. And every gun it has uses 1.3 more cap to fire even with 2 discharge elutriation rigs.

I just don't see the need to make the Abaddon stable with a bunch of equipment running. Other battleships can't, so why yours? Just reduce the cap draw of laser turrets slightly and it brings the ship much more in line with the rest. But I don't fly Amarr Battleships much, I stick to the cruisers and frigates, so I am slightly unaware of the severity of certain issues (yet at the same time I get a decent 3rd person perspective of the situation)

I just don't see the need to make the Abaddon stable with a bunch of equipment running. Other battleships can't, so why yours? Just reduce the cap draw of laser turrets slightly and it brings the ship much more in line with the rest. But I don't fly Amarr Battleships much, I stick to the cruisers and frigates, so I am slightly unaware of the severity of certain issues (yet at the same time I get a decent 3rd person perspective of the situation)

Although I honestly have no idea what possessed you to put Discharge Elutriation rigs on the Abaddon to increase capacitor life when Semiconductor Memory Cell rigs improve the capacitor life better when MWDs are factored in, and don't cause excessive PG draw.

Hellcat show that amarr ships work fine in their niche.

...oh yes and Oracle pilots because it's a balanced system when an ABC can fit and fire a full rack of Tach's but no BS can without gimping the fit.

And new pilots that dont have 5 in cap skills and controlled bursts could get some use out of it this way.

No one is asking for it to be stable, but a ship that uses weapon system that drains so much cap needs a capacitor advantage. All i want is the possibility to fit it without wasting 2 rig slots on "i can fire my guns" rigs. And this would be the perfect time to do so because with the resists nerf if they buff the capacitor enough so you can drop one rig even if you fit a trimark in that slot you will have basically the same EHP as before the nerf (~1-1.5k more). And new pilots that dont have 5 in cap skills and controlled bursts could get some use out of it this way.

On cruiser level (ships that you do fly and are probably basing all this on them not on the actual battleship class that the rest of us are discussing) Amarr have a big capacitor advantage. For example Maller has 14.6 peak cap regen, Vexor and Thorax have 12 and 11.7. Abaddon has 21.3 peak regen, Hyperion and Megatron 20 and 20.3

10 seconds more when mwd is on, 2 min less when it is off. And they cost 20M more. That is why everyone uses discharge elutriation rigs. You obviously dont fly Amarr battleships, what are you doing in this thread?

@Ocih : that have already been said countless of times : if Tachyon were easy to fit and use, they would be no less than OP.

They are easy to fit. On a Paladin, Nightmare and Oracle. They aren't being fit though. I guess people don't like OP fits in EVE.

I must ask, however, what kind of fit did you have to be able to fit a full rack of neuts? Surely there were a few issues getting that all on there? Or did you, lol, just fit neuts and drones?