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ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
521
   |
Posted - 2013.04.09 09:14:00 -
[151] - Quote
Kind of agreeing with the stuck in a box comments...
yes all the numbers are balancing out, and roles are being filled... but i think your taking too much character out of battleships in this case, not enough racial uniqueness.
Tempest is the hurricanes big brother. The nimble brawler, uses smarts to kill but doesn't forget its a battleship.
Maelstrom is the grizzled veteran the dependable fighter. It wades in to a fight and everyone knows it.
Typhoon is an enigma. When it lands on field it worries the opponent. All they know is its going to hurt!
That to me is the essence of the Minmatar BS's
-
Nulla Curas |
Gargantoi
Solar Wind
Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 09:42:00 -
[152] - Quote
my sugestion is as u guys are doing with the naglfar do with the typhoon ...stop making minmatar ships ..like caldari ones you shoud apply the curent typhoon bonus to raven ..raven can already hit 200 + km off with cruise missiles and it isnt needed ..the 10% bonus to flight time on raven is usless ..and no ..no one uses torpedos on it either ...typhoon should get a bonus like armageddon ....10% to drone dmg and then 20-30% to web or something ..or give it 10% bonus to drones and 5% / 10% bonus to rate of fire / dmg to projectile turrets ...as for tempest ..add +1 more gun to it ...it could really use it ...but yeah unless u change the raven ...leave the mega in its curent state ...and change typhoon to 5 x heavy drones + guns ..the patch will go like this : amarr as usual r l337 ...gallente get screwed on mega ..so u r nerfing them ..minmatar r the same ..just more ehp and a new usless typhoon ..and caldari ..as usual no love for them ..so your balance is turning into a amarr overpower ..all u will see will be apocs + geddons ...i wanna see how the new typhoon will act vs a x-large ancilary tanked ferox ...it will prob go down half armor and barelly take it down i dono who is doing the math / decisions to modify ships like this ..but he is doing it wrong ...that beeing said ..hope your new focuse will be on command ships ..atm there overpriced battlecruisers with slightly beter resist and in case u wont bother to listen to the voice of the people ...90% r saying what i am ...at least boost cruise missiles + torpedos ..the explosion radius the exp velocity ..lower them ..why make the radius on RAGE torps 750 when a bs is 400m radius or give them that crappy exp velocity when even at a certain point a bs can outspeed them ...so as i said ..your doing it wrong |
Garresh
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 09:47:00 -
[153] - Quote
I don't care what you think about tiericide or balance, but you guys really missed the point of the Typhoon. I won't try to justify myself with game design theory(although I may later), but for now I want you to listen to my story.
Almost 4 years ago I started my journey in Eve. I had read about the coming Apocrypha expansion and was completely entranced by the idea of the "wild west" of New Eden's w-space. Who wasn't? We've all watched Firefly(or should have). I'd been jumping from MMO to MMO for years, having started with WoW but lost interest surprisingly quickly. Something about it felt gimmicky, and it barely retained my attention past the second year, which is rather notoriously short for an MMO. Nothing stuck.
But Eve was something different. Almost immediately upon logging in I was overwhelmed with options and possibilities. I tried it all. Mining, Missions, failfit PvP, Exploration. It was all new and engaging. But I had a goal. I was going to move to w-space eventually. It was going to happen. So with sleepers in my sights, I started to plan for the long term. I knew I needed to master scanning, and exploration was a natural stepping stone. But exploration alone wouldn't teach me how to be ruthless and survive in eve. I fell in with ninjas and starting using my scanning skills for theft. New as I was, I was unfit for combat. I had to evade or speed tank mission runners who shot at me, as I had no ships to come back with and kill them.
At the same time, I started venturing out into lowsec for exploration. Some of the complexes I couldn't do in a hurricane or cyclone, as my skills were simply too low and I had much to learn. I spent some time wandering between projects. I got my feet wet. I got shot and killed a few times. I learned how to adapt and outwit a better armed opponent, who came at me in large numbers.
But when all was said and done, it was one ship that truly propelled me forward on my path: The Typhoon. Even with my abysmal skills the ship was a monster. My damage was lackluster as I had all T1 weapon systems, T1 tank modules, and couldn't even field a full flight of drones. But it's flexibility and the sheer tankiness of it even without the appropriate skills allowed me to prevail. My first mission runner kill was in a Typhoon. Most of my first complexes I cleared were in a Typhoon.
I used my Typhoon as an all-in-one exploration boat in Highsec. I used it in Lowsec, carrying extra fitting modules in my hold, and using it's surprisingly good tank and agility to evade certain death at the hand of gatecamps. Did I get popped in low? Absolutely, but these things happen. I learned how to manage isk and avoid risk because of it. When I started w-space, it was in a hurricane, then a cyclone.
But the Typhoon was the ship that finally changed my day trips into something more. When I launched my first tower, a medium minmatar tower in a little class 2, I cleared all my sites in a typhoon. It was t1 fit, with T2 tank modules at the time. I could field a full flight of drones though, so it wasn't all bad. When I started looking at my C3 static enviously, I wasn't sure how to approach it. Flying a T3 was still at least 6-8 months away, and I simply wasn't wealthy enough to risk that kind of isk in a system I wasn't familiar with.
I had invited two other players along in my w-space ventures. One an IRL friend who incidentally had gotten into Eve around the same time as me. She didn't play much. Another former ninja who shared my fascination with sleeprs. Equally noobish, we devised a clever fitting that would allow us to finally break into C3 sites without laying down 600 million isk. We ran an RR sentry Domi and an RR sentry phoon. Whoever was primaried would active local rep while the secondary used RR. When they switched targets, local rep would power down and RR would come online. It was only cap stable running one of the two rep systems, but with this balanced system, we effectively ran a 2 man spider rep fleet. Once again, It was not a drake, or a cyclone, or even a Loki that carried me into the next step in my journey. I made the jump in a Typhoon.
CCP, hear my plea. If there is any ship undeserving of these changes, any ship that is more worthy of it's current status and title, it's the Typhoon. Typhoon was more than just a status symbol to bittervets with too many skill points. The ship is still among the most flexible battleships even at low skillpoints, and it's versatility helped many new players like myself to truly embrace the minmatar lifestyle. I've done more things in more different regions and playstyles of eve with my Typhoon than most players do with all their ships combined. To change it to a mere Attack Ship is to lose the very essence of it. It's more than skill points and epeens. It symbolizes the rugged adaptability and will to survive that has defined the Minmatar playstyle since the earliest days of Eve. Noobs and Vets alike have relied on this ship for a decade now. Take every other ship we have, but please leave the Typhoon as it is. |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
81
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 09:55:00 -
[154] - Quote
Garresh wrote:Good Story.
You should put this to the new stories depository. Many matari pilots share the same story. https://truestories.eveonline.com/ |
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
50
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 10:29:00 -
[155] - Quote
I will post my overall feeling on this thread because its less populated, therefore more likely my post to be read and not trampled by other posts.
That being said, I will talk about all 4 races changes, because its completely wrong to analyse ships separated by magical barriers.
My feelings:
HORRIBLE ! The main issue that was to increase the value of battleship in modern battlefield was not tackled. Also the attempt to project the same division of roles that cruisers have into battleships its a complete failure of understanding what a battleship is and should be. And as many have already said, too much murdering of races identities in name of standarization. That is not the same eve I fell in love years ago.
A general note. CCp has added new specific Battleship modules, the MJD, but the battleships continue to be much harder to fit than cruisers and battlecruisers are. Just be realistic CCP. Rebalance powergrid so that all battleships can fit their largest guns, MWD MJD with perfect skills without need of a RCU II, at most the need of a pg implant. Same with CPU.
On a more fine grained annalysis:
Apoc: Possibly a good change, but it needs more capacitor seriously. Check how long that thing can fire beams? You are relegating the ship exclusively to pulses currently.
Armageddon: The most offenseive changes. Amarr used to be the kings of medium range gank and now they lost this marvelous ship and role. Instead they were relegated to be a mix of gallente and caldari, in essence you gave amarr a Gurista ship. That is far, very far from any race identity and this type of abuse must never be made. Torpedo and drones are not to be on amarr battleship level. The neut bonus has its possible place, but not this whoel tripple modification. Also this change steps compeltely over GALLENTE BOUNDARY OF IDENTITY.
Abaddon: Nerfing battleships? They are still overall (as a class) too weak an not worth using, and CCP still nerf them? Ok the bonus is too powerful, but it remaisn that ALL battleships should be BUFFED.
Typhoon: All backwards with he tempest. and steped on toes of too many minmatar lovers. The typhoon always was the armor tanking ship of matar line. Do not make it upside down with tempest. Keep the 6 launchers and 7 highs. But keep the ship able to fit 4 guns. That will add minimal DPS but will keep a lot of people happy. Also do not tough its drone bay. Yes the typhoon power must be larger than its now, as all battleships should!
Give the typhoon the combat role and HP.
Tempest: Stop dodging it! Tempest does not have a role. Everything it does the maelstrom can do better as a combat ship. More alpha, more tank, easier to fit. The tempest need a massive change. Remove 1 high slot and give it a low slot for a proper armor combat ship. Or Literally swap it with the typhoon and make it the attack ship as all its history and characteristics suggest it should be. Reduce tempest HP to attack level, and give it same mobility as the current typhoon proposal. Increase its rof OR the dmg bonus to 7.5% per level. yes it needs a proper buff, as all the battleships need to be really relevant in battlefield.
Malestrom: Ok I understand its powerful, but still think its a badly made ship. It was presented as a fleet ship and the 8 artie can do that. But the shield boost bonus is NOT compatible with that role. Give it a Shield 10% HP bonus. Maybe even pass the shield boost bonus to tempest and make the tempest a 10% ROF per level and 7.5% shield boost ship (with 7/6/6 layout). That would give the ships more clearly well made roles!
Dominix: Ok I get the concept, but the armageddon changes make this ship moot, as the navy vexor and likely other ship changes to come, make them useless. How to fix it? Give it a 15% Drone hitpoint and damage per level. Yes another buuf, because, I shall repeat myself. All battleships need a buff.
Megatron: Raped completely the minmatar role and tempest identity. What you want here? a giant brutix? I get that its cool.. but what in hell you think its gonna be used in? and how do you can dare to say its not a minmatar ship ? it steps too much into another race role. I do not know what to make of this ship, but the change is not gallente at all. My feeling is that you guys wanted to give hyperion a 7th slot and had some type of compulsive disorder and could not stand 2 ships with same slot layout and invented an upside down megathron to make your fingers stop iching. Advise.. that is NOT A GOOD REASON.
Hyperion: I get why 7 low slots are important. But... the capacitor !!! Use the same approach of the brutix. Remove a high slot and a turret, increase the bonus to a 5% rof bonus. Make it a 7/6/7 and you have a great boat.
Scorpion: strnage role so not much to add.
Raven? WHAT a fast battleship in caldari. Mrs this is again conceptually wrong. The slot change is OK, but ravens should get more hitpoints and not speed. Speed is not a caldari trait! Will not help much in combat, but still states clearly taht CCP losts the vision of the races! Why not just increase even more Sensor, and lcok range to make caldari ships even stronger against eWar? With missiels, a very large lock range and strong sensors the rav
Rokh; Check abaddon. Exact same thing. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
Imperial Outlaws.
1147
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 10:30:00 -
[156] - Quote
If you are going to **** on the Typhoon you may as well be bold and decisive about it. An Armor tanking Raven is silly. It also doesn't fit into the Breacher - Cyclone - ?? lineup at all. I'd make the Phoon a 8-6-6 layout with a launcher ROF bonus and the shield boost bonus. You can leave the navy issue Phoon alone to satisfy us on the backend.
Give the Maelstrom an optimal or tracking bonus. This along with its ROF bonus would cement it as an arty platform/ fleet vessel.
The Tempest is actually decent now. I don't like the sig increase, but it's EHP has been brought up to Maelstrom levels. It's fitting grid got a significant increase. While it has 10 effective turrets compared to the Mael's 10.66, it also has two extra highs that can fit unbonused torp launchers or heavy neuts. It can armor or shield tank. It IS quintessential Minmatar. |
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
50
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 10:34:00 -
[157] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:If you are going to **** on the Typhoon you may as well be bold and decisive about it. An Armor tanking Raven is silly. It also doesn't fit into the Breacher - Cyclone - ?? lineup at all. I'd make the Phoon a 8-6-6 layout with a launcher ROF bonus and the shield boost bonus. You can leave the navy issue Phoon alone to satisfy us on the backend.
Give the Maelstrom an optimal or tracking bonus. This along with its ROF bonus would cement it as an arty platform/ fleet vessel.
The Tempest is actually decent now. I don't like the sig increase, but it's EHP has been brought up to Maelstrom levels. It's fitting grid got a significant increase. While it has 10 effective turrets compared to the Mael's 10.66, it also has two extra highs that can fit unbonused torp launchers or heavy neuts. It can armor or shield tank. It IS quintessential Minmatar.
Large signature and slower than so many other ships is not minmatar at all! It has not CPU enough to fit torpedoes and a shield tank, the neut role is gone because of the new king of Neutralizers. Its stil weaker than maelstrom in ANY COMBAT application. if they want minmatar to have an armor tanker battleship it must have 7 low slots.
Minmatar largest signature ships should be slightly larger than the smaller ones (from same class of course) from the other races. But minmatar are supposed to have less HP. That would be minmatar in essence! Stop trying to make minmatar into amarr |
Loki Feiht
Feiht Family Clan
19
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:04:00 -
[158] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Kind of agreeing with the stuck in a box comments...
yes all the numbers are balancing out, and roles are being filled... but i think your taking too much character out of battleships in this case, not enough racial uniqueness.
Tempest is the hurricanes big brother. The nimble brawler, uses smarts to kill but doesn't forget its a battleship.
Maelstrom is the grizzled veteran the dependable fighter. It wades in to a fight and everyone knows it.
Typhoon is an enigma. When it lands on field it worries the opponent. All they know is its going to hurt!
That to me is the essence of the Minmatar BS's
I agree, The typhoon is always a mystery when it lands, a bit like a domi - you never quite know how they are going to be fitted |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:08:00 -
[159] - Quote
The maelstrom apparently has 700 structure LOL
'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium
Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:13:00 -
[160] - Quote
-I think the Maelstrom being a ASB ships should have less shield HP and certainly less armour HP than the tempest.
-Also switch the drone bandwidth around so the tempest gets 100 and mael 75 since the mael has 8 turrets and the pest has only 6.
-On the pest I would move a high to a low so it can actually armour tank properly.
'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium
Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
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Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:30:00 -
[161] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote:-I think the Maelstrom being a ASB ship should have less shield HP and certainly less armour HP than the tempest.
-Also switch the drone bandwidth around so the tempest gets 100 and mael 75 since the mael has 8 turrets and the pest has only 6.
-On the pest I would move a high to a low so it can actually armour tank properly.
If the tempest is to remaisn as a combat battleship. YES. at least 200 more HP and 1 more low and 100 m bay. |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
533
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:01:00 -
[162] - Quote
I think the changes look really nice.
The Tempest gains some much needed durability, and the Typhoon looks awesome (certainly fast enough for an oldskool nanophoon)
-áwww.promsrage.com |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:16:00 -
[163] - Quote
Good lets just say:
Maelstrom like that it stays the same (Projectile + Shield).
Tempest i would like a slot layout of 8H+4M+7L (with 8 turrets) to go as the projectile armor boat of minmatar.
Typhoon make it a 7H+6M+6L Layout and give it 7 launchers that way it can probably compare to the raven and be a true minmatar ship which can fly either shield or armor. Or go down to 6H+7M+7L and increase the rof boni slightly. |
Major Killz
177
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:18:00 -
[164] - Quote
CAN I GET 7TH F*CKING LOW ON MY GAWD DAMN TEMPEST PLEASE!?
Etheir that or give 6 mid slots and 4 - 5 low slots.
- killz |
Turnip Mahoywagon
Kilrathi Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:21:00 -
[165] - Quote
Don't really understand a lot of these changes. Most of these BS were reasonably balanced as CCP have said previously. But now your making fairly large changes to many of them that don't stand them out in clear roles? Surely in removing tiers you should start with their roles. Given that most of them are fairly well balanced, the obvious thing to do would be to define them like:
Abbadon (Combat BS)
Apocalypse (Odd duck)
Armageddon (Attack BS)
Rohk (Combat BS)
Raven (Attack BS)
Scorpion (Odd duck)
Hyperion (Combat BS)
Megathron (Attack BS)
Dominix (Odd Duck)
Maelstrom (Combat BS)
Tempest (Attack BS)
Typhoon (Odd duck)
As most of them fall into those roles as is. You've stated else where you want to keep the Scorpion in it's current role which is good. If your keeping the odd duck in the BS line, then why not redefine the Domi and Typhoon into the same odd duck role. Call them utility BS or whatever. The point is you then nicely have a combat and attack BS in each race. It also enables you to keep random utility that the domi and phoon have that people love because you can be so creative with their fits. It feels like at the moment your not comfortable with a proper "attack" BS because BS are meant to be heavy and slow (contrary to an "attack" role), so your having to compensate by mixing other things up like slot layout and bonuses which is making things less balanced.
The amaar BS is slightly more awkward as there is so much overlap between the 3 ships, but I don't think that many people think that's a problem. I refer to the Apoc as the odd duck as I would make that even more so a deadicated sniper, buff the speed on the Geddon to distinguish it from the Abbadon.
It seems like what you've got at the moment isn't very coherent or balanced. |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
2364
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:35:00 -
[166] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:typo in the OP. "Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000 / 7500 / 700" on the Mael.
this |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:38:00 -
[167] - Quote
The stand out points of the Tempest were always its two extra utility slots and its ultra low signature radius and manuverability. And also a lot of people are forgetting it had the ability to be fit effectively with either a shield or and armour tank. If the Tempest is going to remain in the niche it has created for itself then it simply must have a ultra low signature radius and speed or else it has nothing to make it stand out from other BS's which can perform all of its roles much better.
The only way I can see increasing the sig on the Tempest would be acceptable were if it were to be made into the minmatar attack BS of choice, in which case it would need completely overhauling and streamlining, perhaps to be an armour tanked missile ship as the Typhoon is currently.
Personally I would be very sad to see the Tempest lose it character and would love to see it keep its low sig radius and speed, but if one of them has to be the attack BS of choice, then I would prefer this treatment be given to the tempest, and we keep the Typhoon as the enigma ship as other have pointed out.
I wonder if something similar to the below changes would be a better concept to follow.
Tempest:
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 6L; 6 turrets , 2 launchers (-2)
Fittings: 16000 PWG, 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6750(-1050) / 6750(-1050) / 6500(-600)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 135(+15) / .11(-0.1) / 103300000 / 15.8s (-1.38)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 19 Ladar Sensor Strength (-1)
Signature radius: 330(-90)
Typhoon:
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher and Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher an Large Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 5 turrets (+5) , 5 launchers (-1)
Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500 / 7250(+1250) / 7250(+1250)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1087s / 4.97
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120(-10) / .12(+0.1) / 103600000 / 17.18s (+1.38)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125(+25) / 250(+150)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength (+1)
Signature radius: 390(+40) |
MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Legion
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:46:00 -
[168] - Quote
The Typhoon will be good if missiles are fixed. The Tempest on the other hand seems to have been given a weight and told to sink or swim. Its not so fast anymore. Its not the best neut ship anymore. It really needs a bit of help to stay current. |
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:46:00 -
[169] - Quote
So Tempest gets HUGE, and gets some tank. I think I might want it all back. Its an inversion - the low sig was the tank, now its fatter and has more tank? Matari boats are 'small' but this thing is enormous! What was the point?
And now my favourite. The Phoon. I like the change to missiles - it was always difficult to do anything with it using split weapons due to the resulting glass cannon. I HATE the drone change - its not the bandwidth, its simply a complete Nerf. I cannot fill it with sentries or large drones. Repeat, can not! I need some small ship defence. Thus, you are saying in reality that it can only use 75 bandwidth at most.
So the Phoon is a nerf.
The Pest is pointless - more tank - but huge target - its no longer minmatar.
I kindof died inside - why oh why do the Caldari/Amarr get their racial Ewar represented in BS when theirs is the most useful of the racial Ewar. I dont see a nice painting or webbing bonus on minmatar (phoon perhaps), or a nice gallente scram range or damp bonus. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:14:00 -
[170] - Quote
I've created a seperate thread as a sort of retort to the current proposals in here. It seems the general consensus is that the Minmatar BS community dislike the direction of these changes, and so perhaps if we can offer an idea of where we think CCP have gone wrong with the Minmatar BSs then we may get to retain the unique essense that Minmatar BS's currently have.
The thread is in this forum - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=223874&find=unread
I have offered a rough draft myself, although will alter it as seen fit by the majority of the Minmatar BS community that respond in the thread. |
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
250
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:16:00 -
[171] - Quote
Maelstrom nothing changed nothing to add.
Tempest , oh nice hp boost, not much changed, it seems a like a mael , just with slightly better stats,strange.I think i wil use this over mael anytime , until fitting says i cant :)
Typhoon , hard to say anything without missile fix , but this ship seems like spot on, but it is superior to the raven and without any drawbacks. It looks like minmatar is taking over caldari's missile style.Especially as matar already took the king of pve crown.
Oh and just a hint maybe fix missiles first then balance the ships use them?
Btw i dont like how it lost its drone,missile,turret thing platform thing :(
" Cost of production will be adjusted to reflect tiericide, but so far we have not settled on exact numbers."
hmm hope you dont want them to cost as much as the current tier 3s, that would be a huge letdown, especially as bc-s are comparable vs these ships ,i think it would be best if all would costs as current tier 2 bs
attack bc 75m , tier 1 bs 100m tier 2 bs 150m , tier 3 bs 220m , you see they are not much better than attack bc , so i wouldnt put the cost that much over that 120-150m would be the best spot,
keep in mind that large rigs are much more costly than med ones ,especially the tanky ones ,which most of these ships will use probably |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:17:00 -
[172] - Quote
Capt ****** wrote:So Tempest gets HUGE, and gets some tank. I think I might want it all back. Its an inversion - the low sig was the tank, now its fatter and has more tank? Matari boats are 'small' but this thing is enormous! What was the point?
The Pest is pointless - more tank - but huge target - its no longer minmatar.
I kindof died inside - why oh why do the Caldari/Amarr get their racial Ewar represented in BS when theirs is the most useful of the racial Ewar. I dont see a nice painting or webbing bonus on minmatar (phoon perhaps), or a nice gallente scram range or damp bonus.
THAT! I want a MINMATAR BATTLESHIP. Neither the maesltrom or the tempest are minmatar. The maelstrom I was already used to it. But do not steal my last proper minmatar battleship
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
77
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:49:00 -
[173] - Quote
hey CCP rise.. you forgot to remove the tempest from this thread as well and say "comming soon" as well. Just a friendly reminder :) |
Garresh
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:21:00 -
[174] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:THAT! I want a MINMATAR BATTLESHIP. Neither the maesltrom or the tempest are minmatar. The maelstrom I was already used to it. But do not steal my last proper minmatar battleship
THIS. Typhoon and Tempest were true minmatar battleships, and now you want to turn them into an armor raven and...whatever that thing is. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes more is bad. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
270
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:28:00 -
[175] - Quote
Garresh wrote:THIS. Typhoon and Tempest were true minmatar battleships, and now you want to turn them into an armor raven and...whatever that thing is. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes more is bad.
Edit:
Actually, I want to clarify something. The new Typhoon isn't a bad ship in terms of viability. Hell, just looking at it, you can see it's clearly an "Armor Raven", and in many ways outclasses the existing raven. Nobody is saying the new Typhoon is unbalanced. The issue is that it doesn't fit minmatar. At all. I would rather we have a weaker ship and retain our racial identity than a stronger ship that is generic and boring. If I wanted to fly a Raven I'd just crosstrain to Caldari. And I do *not* want to fly a Raven.
I think the Typhoon Fleet Issue will be the super versatile platform, following the path of the Scythe FI. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
81
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:34:00 -
[176] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Garresh wrote:THIS. Typhoon and Tempest were true minmatar battleships, and now you want to turn them into an armor raven and...whatever that thing is. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes more is bad.
Edit:
Actually, I want to clarify something. The new Typhoon isn't a bad ship in terms of viability. Hell, just looking at it, you can see it's clearly an "Armor Raven", and in many ways outclasses the existing raven. Nobody is saying the new Typhoon is unbalanced. The issue is that it doesn't fit minmatar. At all. I would rather we have a weaker ship and retain our racial identity than a stronger ship that is generic and boring. If I wanted to fly a Raven I'd just crosstrain to Caldari. And I do *not* want to fly a Raven. I think the Typhoon Fleet Issue will be the super versatile platform, following the path of the Scythe FI.
Fleet phoon will likely get a 20% smartbomb range per levekl and 10% cap usage on smart bomb per level :) |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
132
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:37:00 -
[177] - Quote
Upon consideration, I think that if CCP is insistant that the Typhoon loses its dual weapon systems, then it should become a low sig heavy hitting armored brick with drone support for utility.
Leave the fast attack role for the Tempest and max out its projectile damage and speed with the two extra utility slots which can be fitted with either unbonused missiles or nuets or some other utility module. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
82
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:40:00 -
[178] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Upon consideration, I think that if CCP is insistant that the Typhoon loses its dual weapon systems, then it should become a low sig heavy hitting missile armored brick with drone support for utility.
Leave the fast attack role for the Tempest and max out its projectile damage and speed with the two extra utility slots which can be fitted with either unbonused missiles or nuets or some other utility module. Right now the Tempest is simply a poor mans maelstrom and will have no use on the battlefield.
Basically almost everyones agrees with that. The only way the tempest can find a role not supplanted by maelstrom is makign the temepst the attack ship. But i fear there will be too much stubbornness on this regard coming form CCP side. |
Izi55IzI
TunDraGon
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:41:00 -
[179] - Quote
Why does eve need a second raven? If you want to fly a raven go train for one.
Dual weapon bonuses are fine.
I can't understand what you have against utlity ships. If the diversity of possible "working" setups is too much for you to handle, just make 3 identical bs's for all the races, wtih 3 possible fits and be done with it.
But don't change the fundamental things that make eve great, and yes, one of those things is still a typhoon with it's dual weapon bonus and it's myriad of setups.
And again stup dumbing the game down with things like tiers and adding combat and attack infront of everything. Winter expansion will probably feature adding epic attack navy bs something.
I really hope you take some input from the forum posts regarding changes to bs of all races, because it seems to me, except for a few fanboys, the general consensus is they are plain terrible.
I'm sure there are many, like me, who would like to see bs returning to small scale pvp instead of bc's, and with your proposed changes, you're just making them even more absolete.
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Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 15:04:00 -
[180] - Quote
its still odd that a battleship like the phoon has only 1500 shield HP more than the cyclone mmmm.....
'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium
Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
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