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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
85
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:35:00 -
[91] - Quote
With caldari and amarr getting ewar battleships I think it would be neat if each race got a battleship that got something unique. Because the typhoon was suppose to be a flexible ship to begin with, I think you should add some discordant bonuses onto the hull. Imagine if this was the ship:
(per level bonuses)
5% bonus to turret RoF
5% bonus to missile RoF
50% bonus to shield transporter range
50% bonus to remote armor repair range
10% bonus to target painter optimal range
With a 7/5/7 layout (5 tur/5mis) you would have an incredibly flexible ship. Another layout that could also work is a 6/6/7 (5/5) layout. The additional bonuses are designed in such as way that you really can't take advantage of them all at the same time, but the fact that the ship becomes incredibly flexible would balance it out. It would also create a completely new role in the game, in this particular example a heavy logistics, that wouldn't displace the current logi ships.
Not saying that these are the bonuses you should run with, but I think getting past the 2 bonus per ship idea would make the typhoon really unique, especially if the bonuses are discordant. The lack of 8 highs will swerve the ship away from some of the current fittings, but I think the added flexibility would be something that would make this ugly as hell hull (<3) amaxing. |
monkfish2345
D'reg
The Methodical Alliance
59
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:38:00 -
[92] - Quote
Please can we keep the fleet phoon with it's split damages.
there are alot of people that love the ship as it is and to see it turned it a fast raven is a bit sad. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
304
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 19:43:00 -
[93] - Quote
I hope CCP get mass amnesia and they skip minatar faction ships or we are gonna fly tempest looking drakes in short future.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
The G0dfathers
121
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:44:00 -
[94] - Quote
It feels as if the Typhoon has been neutered. Whatever balls that ship had have been firmly snipped. Yes it took a lot of skills to use it well but it offered so much versatility that it was worth the effort. Now it feels like a Raven, and that's wrong on every level both for the Typhoon and the Raven.
The Minmatar have lost their most versatile ship.
The Caldari have come second place in their speciality weapons system.
How does this make sense? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
65
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:46:00 -
[95] - Quote
Please consider the following dear CCPers. Increase ALL BATTLESHIPS hp by ANOTHER 15% and add ANOTHER 15 fitting so they can fit weapons as easily as the BC can alongside tank. |
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
214
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:56:00 -
[96] - Quote
Wouldn't the Tempest make more sense as the Attack BS? The Typhoon is an odd enough duck to begin with, making it the poster child for swift Minmatar attacks... with missiles? That makes no frelling sense. The Tempest description even calls it a gunship. Definition: 'a light craft armed with heavy guns'. I'd really like to see the roles in the OP reversed.
The Maelstrom is the big bruiser raining death from afar.
The Typhoon can be the lovably ugly trash can spewing missiles in the middle distance.
The Tempest is the swift sailed flagship meant to dart in and hit hard.
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
126
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Posted - 2013.04.08 21:17:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hmm, I havent read through the whole thread, but I'm very concerned about the increased sig radius. I want to see my minmatar ships staying as minmatar ships and not becoming melded into a homogonized mass with the other races.
Any chance of some reigning back of the sig radius increases as I always saw a low sig as fundamental and unique aspect to flying minmatar and would be sad to see that go. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 21:19:00 -
[98] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:Wouldn't the Tempest make more sense as the Attack BS? The Typhoon is an odd enough duck to begin with, making it the poster child for swift Minmatar attacks... with missiles? That makes no frelling sense. The Tempest description even calls it a gunship. Definition: 'a light craft armed with heavy guns'. I'd really like to see the roles in the OP reversed.
The Maelstrom is the big bruiser raining death from afar.
The Typhoon can be the lovably ugly trash can spewing missiles in the middle distance.
The Tempest is the swift sailed flagship meant to dart in and hit hard.
This would certainly make more sense to me also. |
Circumstantial Evidence
53
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Posted - 2013.04.08 21:20:00 -
[99] - Quote
Another vote for exchanging Typhoon and Tempest roles.
"Attack" roles should apply instant damage, not lead to comments like: "be patient, it's getting there soon(tm)." |
DR BiCarbonate
Basgerin Pirate
SCUM.
63
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Posted - 2013.04.08 21:43:00 -
[100] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Our redesign here aims to honor the spirit of the typhoon You Failed.
tell me rise, how does this honor the spirit of the old phoon?
honestly interested in what you have to say. |
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 21:44:00 -
[101] - Quote
I agree, I just don't like too see the Typhoon being pigeon holed into this missile attack role. One of the benefits was that it worked well with drones, missiles, and projectiles. I'd much rather see a focused effort on keeping the typhoons versatility and streamlining the Tempest into the attack role.
And again, the whole concept for minmatar ships should be built around signature and speed. Signature seems to have been given a second thought in these balance changes simply being increased for convenience, when to many it is a crucial tenant of minmatar warfare. |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Unclaimed.
217
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Posted - 2013.04.08 21:45:00 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Magic Crisp wrote:Please apply the remote reps to the maelstrom's shield boost bonus. The other ships' tanking bonuses are usually applied to remote reps (resist bonuses?) While this still doesn't protect against alphas, it still makes them more likely to survive in fleet battles.
Pretty sure the Maelstrom doesn't need anymore help to be viable in fleets.
Maelstrom is useful for fleets because of artillery alpha; if your doctrine is built around critical mass alpha, there are no viable non-Minmatar alternatives. Even so, several alliances went to great lengths to try and build alpha artillery doctrines using Abaddons and Rokhs.
Similarly, the Tempest makes for an excellent anti-capital/AHAC platform due to its cap-less guns and dual utility high slots. No other platform currently offers that combination.
When players designing doctrines for fleets have a choice, however, they will always use the ship with a resistance bonus over the ship with a repair bonus, all other things being equal. This is why we see lots of Rokh fleets, but no Megathron or Hyperion fleets. The Rokh combines the damage output of blasters or range of rails with a nice resistance bonus. There's no advantage to bringing a Megathron or a Hyperion when a Rokh provides similar damage output and is much more survivable. More broadly, a ship without resistance bonuses has to bring something special to the fleet, in order to be considered over ships that do have a resistance bonus.
That said, I'm not sure that every faction absolutely must have a battleship specifically designed for large fleet warfare. The Hyperion is a fairly decent solo/small gang gank platform. It can already fit a better local armor tank than an Abaddon; that gap will widen if the Abaddon's resistance bonus goes through. |
Rahmiro
Wormhole Exploration Crew
R.E.P.O.
24
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Posted - 2013.04.08 22:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
I enjoyed training the Typhoon's 3 weapon systems. Guess I'll go out purchase a couple to blow up and say goodbye.
Consider leaving the drones.
You're really destroying her character.
I never seen these people in my life.
I don't recognize them Your Honor |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
7
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Posted - 2013.04.08 22:17:00 -
[104] - Quote
Wouldn't it be better to make the phoon the second combat bs for matar and the tempest the attack bs since doesn't the nano tempest kinda fill the 'attack' role?? |
Alaric T'Sun
Sekr Star Drives
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:29:00 -
[105] - Quote
Hmm ...
Fast attack ship - destroyer: Thrasher by +30 km/s at 270 with guns
Fast attack ship - cruiser: Stabber by +50 km/s at 290 with guns
Fast attack ship - battlecruiser : Hurricane a tie by numbers, but a new player filling the attack ship role will have no missile skills
Fast attack ship - Battleship : Typhoon by +10 km/s at 130 with ?!Missiles?!
The phoon needs to be the second combat ship and work along the same path as the Talwar, Bellicose and Cyclone. Some sort of weird bonus (MWD sig reduction would be pretty sweet like the Talwar) and missiles.
Swap the speed of the tempest and phoon and then both progressions make sense:
Thrasher -> Stabber -> Hurricane -> Tempest .. all guns, all gun bonuses, all fastest, all softest
Talwar -> Bellicose -> Cyclone -> Typhoon ... all missiles, all medium speed, all medium toughness, weird one off bonus
Then the odd ships also kind of match:
Rupture and Maelstrom become the pure 'Combat' Ships but not that many as speed and utility are minmatar's tradition
EWAR ships in between, but not many as that isn't the Minmatar's strength either |
Heribeck Weathers
The Executioners
Capital Punishment.
34
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Posted - 2013.04.08 22:33:00 -
[106] - Quote
Phoon - I really like its new layout, don't listen to all the bitter vets whining about lost skillpoints and said army phoons, the extra mid should allow it to fit a to on any fit and really apply its dps. I am sad at the loss of drone bay tho, BSs need more drone bay to carry offensive and defensive drones.
Thempest - the Sig bloom makes me sad, leave it be. Also drop a high for a mid or a low, with the raven at 7 mids and the mega at 5, the tempest could stand to be a shield or armor wild card. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
440
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:38:00 -
[107] - Quote
I had a dream,
CCP Rise had rightfully given the Tempest a 8/6/5 slot layout and made the Fleet Tempest a shield ship again... And then I woke up.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
70
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Posted - 2013.04.08 22:45:00 -
[108] - Quote
I'm shocked the maelstrom didn't get any attention. I understand that it's one of the more popular battleships in the game right now because it's at the center of a major 0.0 fleet concept, and also has some mission running and solo pvp'ing capabilities, but it's main and most popular role is in the alpha fleet concept.
It works very well in that concept, but think about this for a second, the maelstrom works as a ship with a heavy passive tank (and pretty high resist), large alpha via artillery, and medium range~~. However, it doesn't get any bonus's to those roles. Yes the ROF bonus does help it get more dps and fire faster, but it definitely doesn't suffer from not having a damage bonus, which is my main point. The ship is super effective in it's role despite not having any bonus's towards that role. No other battleship currently fits that description. The abaddon comes close, but generally every abaddon concept that has tried something other than being passive tanked with mega pulse lasers, has failed.
You can't run a very effective artillery tempest that can both tank and do damage. The tempest is pretty much forced into an autocannon skirmish role. Many other bs are like this.
The best example is the rokh, despite having a resist bonus, when you consider a standard fit alpha mael and a standard fit Rail rokh, with both pilots having the BS skill at level IV (pretty reasonable expectations), the rokh only has 10% more EHP and slightly higher resists, despite having a 20% resist bonus and the same EHP increasing mods that the mael has (1x LSE and 3x CDFE).
In my opinion while it's cool that the maelstrom is so versatile a hull, it doesn't match what you are trying to do with tiericide, and the changes you have planned for the rest of the battleships. You need to instead define a roll for it, rebalance some of the HP figures, and of course change the bonus's one way or another. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
127
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:45:00 -
[109] - Quote
After thinking about it, I think there are a couple of slight alterations which I think would make sense from my point of view.
1 - Maelstrom is looking very good so I think good job on leaving that one unchanged.
2 - If we are going to be keeping the typhoon as the minmatar attack ship of choice then I would suggest this.
- remove the explosion velocity bonus and replace it with a bonus to drone damage.
add a rate of fire bonus to large projectiles alongside the missile rate of fire bonus, and add 6 turret hardslots and perhaps remove the extra utility if deemed too overpowered.
The key here is to maintain the versatility of the ship by once again have all 3 weapon systems as an option whilst still maintain the typhoon in a strong attacking role.
3 - Reverse the signature radius changes on the Tempest and reduce its HP accordingly if necessary. In my opinion the signature should really be below 400 and definitely not equal to the Raven.
So in essence leave the specialised missile roles to caldari and amarr, keep the low signature with slightly flimsy hulls, and keep great versatility of some of the iconic minmatar ships intact. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
24eme Legion Etrangere
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
changes look good to me. i approve of this new typhoon |
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
562
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:59:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Typhoon:
...
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)
Minimal rewards my arse .. the Phoon was/is the single most adaptive ship in the entire game; neuts, guns, missiles, drones, armour, shield, ewar you name it, it can make it work thanks to damn fine slot layout and general stats.
Now you want a missile boat?
Why on earth not do the same you did for the hull that will be the new phoon in the cruiser class, the once puny Scythe, and give it the +10% damage to missiles and projectiles? It is the most elegant solution to the duel-weapon issue, so elegant that I literally dropped my jaw when I saw it as it didn't feel/smell like the traditional CCP working (the pure missile option does  ) |
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
Darkness of Despair
30
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Posted - 2013.04.08 23:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
I like where it is going with typhoon. Would like to hear more details about bs sized missiles review tho 
Other than that....minmatar look like fallen out of grace recently. Other races always get more sweet stuff. (cue the geddon, apoc, all of cruiser and some of bc changes)
Would probably trade 1 high on tempest for low btw |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
86
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Posted - 2013.04.08 23:09:00 -
[113] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:In my opinion while it's cool that the maelstrom is so versatile a hull, it doesn't match what you are trying to do with tiericide, and the changes you have planned for the rest of the battleships. You need to instead define a roll for it, rebalance some of the HP figures, and of course change the bonus's one way or another.
If you want to nerf the mael to the point where it is completely unusable you should attack the power grid. If you hit the power grid to the point where it can't fit a full rack of artillery without power grid mods then your job is complete and only noobs will fly the mael. |
FourierTransformer
13
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Posted - 2013.04.08 23:12:00 -
[114] - Quote
It certainly does look like CCP has decided to take a **** on minimatar. The signature advantage of minmatar was sig and speed.
And which genius thought it wood be a good idea to turn the phoon into a second raven? All minmatar "attack" ships are turret boats. The tempest fits that role already and should keep it come the new patch. The phoon is the minmatar utility ship, like the caldari scorpion.
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
127
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Posted - 2013.04.08 23:17:00 -
[115] - Quote
It seems pretty much everyone agrees that the Typhoon should maintain the dual missile, projectile weapons systems bar a few misguided souls.
To revise the changes to the typhoon I made above, I think these would be a pretty acceptable changes.
- remove the explosion velocity bonus.
- add a rate of fire bonus to large projectiles alongside the missile rate of fire bonus, and add 6 turret hardslots.
This way you lose the extra damage a explosion velocity bonus provides, but you gain an extra turret or launcher to compliment you main weapon system of choice. Perhaps add additional drone bandwidth or slightly buff the bonus to projectile and missiles if additional dps is necessary. |
Miss Mass
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.04.08 23:26:00 -
[116] - Quote
Onnen Mentar wrote:You're being slaves of the tiericide right now.
I'm finding myself agreeing with that comment...
Add me to the list of folks who aren't happy at all with the Phoon changes, especially the drone b/w and bay size. It's odd to see BS's losing drone flexibility given the recent NPC AI changes that impact drone us.
Also add me to the list of people who feel like a lot of the uniqueness of the various races is being lost and that a lot of ships are getting a much more generic feel to them.
When I started playing EVE, I had a clear idea of how each race played: Gallente with drones, Minmatar were fast with a small sig radius, and so on. All of that seems to be getting blurred now.
I will also say that when I was a noob and read the description of the Phoon, I knew that it was the ship I wanted to be in. And before someone goes down the "bittervet tears" path, it's not that I regret training all the skills that made it viable as my workhorse. Rather, it's that I feel the loss of what was such an important part of my first year or two of playing: skilling up to make a Phoon sing. If I were starting in the game today, that particular challenge would be missing, and with it, a lot of the enjoyment I experienced in this game. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
68
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Posted - 2013.04.08 23:27:00 -
[117] - Quote
Alaric T'Sun wrote:Hmm ...
Fast attack ship - destroyer: Thrasher by +30 km/s at 270 with guns
Fast attack ship - cruiser: Stabber by +50 km/s at 290 with guns
Fast attack ship - battlecruiser : Hurricane a tie by numbers, but a new player filling the attack ship role will have no missile skills
Fast attack ship - Battleship : Typhoon by +10 km/s at 130 with ?!Missiles?!
The phoon needs to be the second combat ship and work along the same path as the Talwar, Bellicose and Cyclone. Some sort of weird bonus (MWD sig reduction would be pretty sweet like the Talwar) and missiles.
Swap the speed of the tempest and phoon and then both progressions make sense:
Thrasher -> Stabber -> Hurricane -> Tempest .. all guns, all gun bonuses, all fastest, all softest
Talwar -> Bellicose -> Cyclone -> Typhoon ... all missiles, all medium speed, all medium toughness, weird one off bonus
Then the odd ships also kind of match:
Rupture and Maelstrom become the pure 'Combat' Ships but not that many as speed and utility are minmatar's tradition
EWAR ships in between, but not many as that isn't the Minmatar's strength either
Would have to agree.... make typhoon the brawler and tempest the attack BS and would make MUCH more sense. The tempest Shoudl be a hit and run battleship nto a brawler. IT lOOKS FRAGILE. the typhoon on other hand LOOKS like a ROCK! |
Luc Chastot
Gentleman's Corp
284
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:35:00 -
[118] - Quote
Rise, there are quite a few typos which I recommend you corrected. Aside from that, I don't fly Minmatar, but I think the changes look ok.
Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
599
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:41:00 -
[119] - Quote
It's pretty much impossible to give feedback on the Typhoon because you haven't told us what you're going to do with torps and cruise.
However, the missile explosion velocity bonus is of surprisingly little value. Torps on a Typhoon are a web-range weapon, meaning that any BS or BC-sized target, and most non-ABing cruisers targets, capable of being hit by torps will be inside web range and hence will have been slowed down to an unbonused torp's explosion velocity, making the bonus unnecessary. Furthermore, it seems likely that whatever you intend to do with torps will involve an increase to explosion velocity, further accentuating this contradiction. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:48:00 -
[120] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Would have to agree.... make typhoon the brawler and tempest the attack BS and would make MUCH more sense. The tempest Shoudl be a hit and run battleship nto a brawler. IT lOOKS FRAGILE. the typhoon on other hand LOOKS like a ROCK!
The typhoon could quite easily be used to brawl if fitted with torpedos under this current proposal. The typhoon is actually looking like a nice ship if it wasn't for the blasphemy of removing its dual weapon system. Also the thing just looks as though it is meant to hold a tonne of drones to me, I think it should at least keep its drone bay even if bandwidth is reduced. Perhaps giving it its drone bay back would at least give it back a modicum of its utility. Ideally it really need dual weapon systems, but it seems CCP are fixed on sticking to these tiericide principles dogmatically.
The Tempest is my main concern though as that massive sig increase really kills it and kills the minmatar warfare philosophy. It just doens't make any sense that a Tempest can have equal sig radius to a Raven. |
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