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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
nat longshot
The RedNeck Posse
169
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Posted - 2013.04.08 23:53:00 -
[121] - Quote
your doing nothing but neffing the phoon by killing the drone bay.
I think ccp hate min and gal with these changes and it starting to show hardcore with the ship changes and the TE nerf how much more are you going to kill the min and gal ships?
-á[13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!! |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises
89
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:21:00 -
[122] - Quote
It may have taken me some 70-80m SP, but on the day I was finally able to properly fit a Typhoon I was the proudest Minmatar in all of New Eden. That said, I understand why its skill requirements are not very appealing from a game design perspective.
Maelstrom: will the extra goody the Gallente are in the process of nudging out of their active tank bonus carry over, even a little bit?
Tempest: Honestly, I'm not sure it will survive with the huge signature increase together with the much closer speed-gap due to the speed increases of other races attack battleships. With the adjustments to better damage application a lot of the other battleships receive, I am not yet convinced the EHP buff will offset its lost damage migitation. The two most common uses over the last years (neut+dps platform against cap, light/fast roamer with good range and tracking) will certainly be taken over by the new Geddon (we needed another Amarr fleet doctrine!), and possibly by Pulse Apocs (aligns faster, less mass, better agility, very close in speed, smaller signature, insane damage projection and application).
Also, since I was never a fan of the - in my opinion useless - 75 MBit of drone bandwith, I vote for 50 MBit bandwith, 100m3 bay size. (-25/+25). Alternatively, new type of 15 MBit drones (Please, data mine the amount of 75 MBit ships fitted in a hangar somewhere with a 2/2/1 drone load).
The more I look at it, the less I see anything it will be able to achieve that another ship won't be better at while being better at everything else as well.
Typhoon: depending on how the lower mass translates to ZOMG ACCELERATION, combined with the abysmal tange of torps on ships without range bonus and the fact that missile range can not be increased by modules, it will routinely die before doing any damage. Which over time might lead to it being ignored until its in range. Might be salvaged by the battleship missile rebalance, useless until then.
The drone role of Geddon and Domi get strengthened; the one ship most matari trained heavy/sentry drones for gets them reduced to add-on level.
Also, nice to see that going into the second decade the Typhoon stays true to its setup of having more HP on the type it does not tank on, so as to have the maximum amount of EHP unbonused and not leveraging any stacking synergy if possible. (no, with its dedication to missiles, BCUs, the +CPU drawback of missile range rigs and the 5th cpu heavy med, the +40 CPU will not make shield tanking it viable or fun beyond comedy value). |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
68
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:22:00 -
[123] - Quote
Also the tempest changes list signature +60 but the value given is for +80. So wich one is correct (please tell me the lower one.. its so stupid minmatar ships so huge)
That is a 23% NERF huge NERF to the ship |
Sandrestal
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:25:00 -
[124] - Quote
While I have long looked for the Phoon to be a useful ship, the only way it would stand out is if the missile buff is of such quality to make a missile launching phoon desirable. Some sort of range bonus for torps would help. Long range cruise are just not very practical for long range sniping. Cruise need speed bonus, torps need range. So either bonus the phoon for this or buff missiles and torps.
Now for one of my pet peeves, a couple years ago large missiles were nerfed to the point where they became useless for fleets or gangs of any size. Now CCP is looking at some sort of buff . What gets me is everytime I hear how CCP is "balancing" something, years later they are undoing what they thought was a balance. What it does is leaves all those pilots who spent a long time training for something wondering why. Might I suggest stop trying to tinker with the game. If you want balance then eliminate the races except for one and eliminate all classes of ships except for one of each class. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
68
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:27:00 -
[125] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
The Tempest is my main concern though as that massive sig increase really kills it and kills the minmatar warfare philosophy. It just doens't make any sense that a Tempest can have equal sig radius to a Raven.
The tempest IS DEAD neutered with those changes.. Tempest as HUGE target is beyond non minmatar> its DUMB
It is not the battleship that brings neuts anymore, and it snot the damage projection one either. Its lost ALL its usefulness alongside the 23% NERF to its signature radius.
CCP, you want to keep tiercide principles? Fine.. HWO about before that you remember to keep RACES CONCEPTUAL PRINCIPLES???
Change role sCPC. The typhoon is LARGEr than tempest and looks more massive so why in hell the typhoon its the lighter? SHoudl be the other way around.
make tempes tin an agile ATTACK ship and typhoon in the brawler ship. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
107
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:36:00 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:But you have made it the largest of all attack gunboats. And it's a Minmatar ship It is not the matar's attack battleship, that would be the typhoon. The tempest is being groupes as combat, so it gets a lot more hp and some extra fitting, along with the increased sig. Wouldn't it make more sense to make the Tempest the Minmatar attack BS, since the Raven already fills the "Missile Attack BS" niche?
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Escort DarkAven
Hades Effect
0
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:39:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
Tiericide - Our effort to destroy ship tiers continues. With battleships, the tiers were most evident in HP amounts and price. All variations had an equal allocation of slots already (19), except drone bonused hulls or disruption hulls, which wonGÇÖt change. As usual, we will be dividing battleships into roles rather than tiers. The distribution will be as follows: One 'Attack' Battleship for each race, and two 'Combat' Battleships for each race (except Caldari, who will retain the only 'Disruption' Battleship for the time being). With these new roles in mind, we will be adjusting hitpoint amounts for all combat battleships near the former tier 3 hitpoint numbers, while the attack hulls will sit closer to the former tier 2s. As with other ship classes, attack battleships will be faster, more agile, and will focus more on damage application and projection than their combat counterparts. Cost of production will be adjusted to reflect tiericide, but so far we have not settled on exact numbers.
Okay i must have missed something here: They all have 19? slot layouts.. did someone miss a count ? Looking at the rebalanced ships, i see all the tier ones, except the Phoon, only have 18.
In general i feel that most of the rebalanced made lately, his been pretty good, but i think, u need to count again.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
68
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:50:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:But you have made it the largest of all attack gunboats. And it's a Minmatar ship It is not the matar's attack battleship, that would be the typhoon. The tempest is being groupes as combat, so it gets a lot more hp and some extra fitting, along with the increased sig.
And why woudl anyone ever bring a tempest for taht role? A amesltrom is FAR sueprior if you need to brawl. if you need neuts That is geddon job now. What you really expect peopel to do with temepsts now (compared to the current metagame).
You are makign minamtar all over VERY VERY SAD. You are giving them NON MINMATAR SHIPS! And BAD non minmatar ships even!
Stop being so fixed on how to divide ships among races. Give minmatar 2 attack ships and 1 cobmat. After all RACES HAVE CONCEPTS.
Also bring up a BIT the signature? Its freaking 23% !!!
But if you REALLY want to make tempest a combat ship (somethign that is conceptually worong and looks all wrong and will make almsot everybody MAD at you)..then at least make it a GOOD combat boat.
For that massive nerf you should have changed its bonuses ocmpletely to something like 10% ROF and 7.5% falloff. Yes that level is needed if you want it to be better than maelstrom in ANY COMBAT ROLE. OR move its utility slots to low slots if you want to give minmatar a proper armor combat ship.
Your impressive combat tempest gained less HP than a single plate would give! that means that almost any combat ship will still out tank it. This ship is completely without PURPOSE on the current proposition! |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises
90
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:05:00 -
[129] - Quote
The more you look at it, the more any niche-role the Tempest has ever carved for itself, became someone elses proper role, then all its benefits were taken away and a few HP and a "deal with it" post-it added.
Even the introduction text to it reads "we don't know what it's supposed to do, but you always found a way to use it. happy searching". |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
68
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:15:00 -
[130] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:The more you look at it, the more any niche-role the Tempest has ever carved for itself, became someone elses proper role, then all its benefits were taken away and a few HP and a "deal with it" post-it added.
Even the introduction text to it reads "we don't know what it's supposed to do, but you always found a way to use it. happy searching".
yup exaclty. They do not even bothered to try make a proper minmatar battleship.
I can do their work if they want. Target is a ship with a role that is not made useless by maelstrom or typhoon.
Simpel examples:
If you want to keep combat role.:
A : +1 turret. Change bonus to 7.5% rof and the damage bonus you change into 7.5% falloff. Simple and it can do SOMETHING better than the maelstrom. Add some PG to compesnate turret.
B: -1 utility high and +1 low slot . Then you have a proper armor tanking battleship. Need also to increase drones to 100.
BOTH cases. Reduce signature to 390 at MOST!
But if they wake up and make it a second attack ship.
Give about same hitpoints as typhoon, but more geared towards shields. make it 6 mids 5 lows. Make it LIGHTER, As light as megatron. And make it move 125 ms. Then you have antoher proper ship, witha role that its not eclipsed by the maelstrom or typhoon. On this case the signature cannot be over 340.
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Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
96
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:42:00 -
[131] - Quote
BABARR wrote:Tempest still need love. 7 gun (+1) remove a mid for a low to make a real gunboat like huricane or rupy, could be a good idea.
Not a fan of this idea, mainly because the tempest makes a good skirmish shield bs. I'd be happy for it to get another gun and another low, but nothing should be removed. Its outright speed needs increasing, the extra low would help with that a lot.
In the light of a megathron being both faster, more agile, having the same slots now, more dps and better damage projection up to 30k, I'm not sure where you think the Tempest fits into this as a skirmishing ship?
Stop trying to bloody pigeonhole these ships into stupid classes, the typhoon is the up close and personal combat BS, not the tempest. People do actually fly shield pests you know that right? The tempest is seriously just the last possible resort in an armour bs gang, except one designed to fight supers/carriers (even then it's just ****). It's no longer fast enough for shield skirmish, as tier 3 bc's do that better and cruisers are so fast, so wtf is it good for?
You can't say it's 'fine' based solely on a bunch of ill-informed scrubs using them in fleets because they don't want dedicated neut boats.
Typhoon needs the changes given, but it needs its full drone bandwidth back. It should be given a damage and rof bonus instead of the stupid explosion radius (seriously who doesn't take a tp in a gang?). You're making it the 'attack' BS, whilst nerfing the **** out of its damage, wtf is wrong with you?
I'm sure glad I trained minmi BS V and large projectiles, what with the tempest being left in the dust and the phoon being made into an armour caldari boat (thanks for the cyclone btw, I actually used to fly that), at least my Panther still does something sortofmaybeusefulbutstillworsethanat3. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
360
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:45:00 -
[132] - Quote
Typhoon: Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 100(-75)
typo I assume? |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
96
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:55:00 -
[133] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:Typhoon: Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 100(-75)
typo I assume?
PS. remember the Tempest will be one of the few ships except drone boats capable of using 2 utility slots for RR or Neuts. That is still rather nasty to run into and Tempest doesn't look like it need more help than the HP and powergrid it already received.
You could drop a gun on a mega, have two utility highs and still do more dps at all ranges. You could do the same with a geddon. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
S0NFANNA
Cause For Concern SCUM.
7
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Posted - 2013.04.09 01:59:00 -
[134] - Quote
So I spend the time training for all the weapon systems on the typhoon, and now there isn't a single minmitar battleship that can use a set of five heavy drones. Stop nerfing battleship drone bays. This needs to be changed! |
Sigras
Conglomo
398
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Posted - 2013.04.09 02:05:00 -
[135] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:I am REALLY disapointed. Tempest SLOWER than megatron? WTF ?
Where are the minmatar role gone into?
Its a matter of CONCEPT!! That is SO WRONG that is #!@*!@#*!@#*!@#!#. Sorry but it is!
Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST! What? a shorter range ship being fast enough to get into range? GASP may it never be! |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
96
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Posted - 2013.04.09 02:21:00 -
[136] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:I am REALLY disapointed. Tempest SLOWER than megatron? WTF ?
Where are the minmatar role gone into?
Its a matter of CONCEPT!! That is SO WRONG that is #!@*!@#*!@#*!@#!#. Sorry but it is!
Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST! What? a shorter range ship being fast enough to get into range? GASP may it never be!
It's more agile you ****, minmatar are still supposed to have the outright speed advantage, but not the agility, so if you stuff up initially you get caught and die.
You think it's ok for the ships with the most damage to have both the highest agility and the highest speed? Not to mention BETTER damage projection. Have a god damn think about it. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Ereilian
Over The Horizon
5
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Posted - 2013.04.09 02:22:00 -
[137] - Quote
I think I finally get the Tempest nerf, too many cap/super kills by execution Tempest hotdrops. Sure we now have the mini-bhal but you expect us to honestly believe you will be able to put out the same dps and neuting power?
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Gerald Mardiska
Gateway Services Synthetic Systems
1
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Posted - 2013.04.09 02:45:00 -
[138] - Quote
I MUST KNOW... what happens to Pirate faction Battleships, namely the Machariel because its Minmatar as well I MUST KNOW PLEASE TELL ME. also thank you for not killing the Maelstrom |
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
209
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Posted - 2013.04.09 03:01:00 -
[139] - Quote
What happened to the idea of "ship lines" you guys talked about around fanfest last year? seems like it got tossed out at the battleship level, especially in the Minmatar lineup.
Like Condor > Caracal > (new) Raven is a good ship line, or Atron > Thorax > (new) Megatharon.
But with Minmatar its like Breacher > Cyclone > ??? Could go with the new Typhoon but then i lose the boost bonus i'm used to and have to change to the "attack" role. Could go with the Maelstrom for my shield boosts, but then i have to switch my primary weapon system. Rifter > Rupture > (new) Tempest works well, but Slasher > Stabber > ??? Typhoon?
I think the shield boost bonus is on the wrong ship and the "combat" and "attack" roles are mixed up. |
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad Darkness of Despair
30
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Posted - 2013.04.09 04:26:00 -
[140] - Quote
Ereilian wrote:I think I finally get the Tempest nerf, too many cap/super kills by execution Tempest hotdrops. Sure we now have the mini-bhal but you expect us to honestly believe you will be able to put out the same dps and neuting power?
But then suddenly typhoon...
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Annoitte
Rogue Businessmen
5
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Posted - 2013.04.09 04:31:00 -
[141] - Quote
Maelstrom not changing looks fine. Still need Advanced Weapon Upgrades at 5 before fitting a full rack of the biggest guns, plus other goodies. Fine by me.
Typhoon looks... Interesting. I've never really been a fan of it personally, and since I'm not a fan of missile boats, I won't even fly one, so my opinion is useless.
Tempest, on the other hand... WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU?! Tempest is a gunboat. Pure and simple, it is THE gunboat. It rushes to get in close, and punches things in the face. It should be the fastest Battleship on the field. And it should have the firepower to match the other Attack Battleships. Put the Typhoon as the second Combat Battleship, and make the Tempest our Attack Battleship. And let it attack things. Harshly. In a rapey kind of way. |
StrongSmartSexy
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2013.04.09 04:40:00 -
[142] - Quote
I was expecting the Typhoon to receive higher DPS with torpedo setups than a torpedo raven at the cost of the missile velocity bonus. Overall I do like the new typhoon, but I was hoping it would be more than just an armor-tanked raven. |
NinjaStyle
hirr RAZOR Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.04.09 04:57:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Magic Crisp wrote:Please apply the remote reps to the maelstrom's shield boost bonus. The other ships' tanking bonuses are usually applied to remote reps (resist bonuses?) While this still doesn't protect against alphas, it still makes them more likely to survive in fleet battles.
Pretty sure the Maelstrom doesn't need anymore help to be viable in fleets.
I'm pretty sure that that's becaus the 1400mm's have the best Alpha in the game and becaus of the higher ehp of the maelstrom vs the tempest so i'm not sure your argument here is for the maelstroms viablity as mutch as it is the 1400mm's being a good weapon system in Fleets
so it's fact becaus the maelstrom is tier 3 atm that makes it the fleet viable ship and since nothing will change for 1400mm capable minmatar BSs I guess it'll simply reamain this way given that no extra viability nor flexibility is going to be comming to these ships.
Typhoon is a CR armor BS and I guess we will just hav to find a way for these to be viable again thoe I highly doubt this will happen atm with how many negatives there are to being big, fat, slow and having **** all attack range / viable weapon systems to go with it.
so yeah it's not that the maelstrom seen as viable we are simply given no real choice here :) thoe I guess you can simply see it in black and white here and go "yeah but that does mean it's viable... BRO!" I simply see inflexibility and this saddens me since I kinda like 1400mms :o I guess the real problem is that with how good the maelstrom would be with like a range or tracking bonus instead or even shield resist bonus? yeah sadly the way the game is atm it's becaus it would be too OP if you gave it anything other than bonuses it allready has :(
I guess this kinda makes my post unconstructive but I just wish there was more Flexibility in what could easily be changed :( |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.04.09 06:37:00 -
[144] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Maelstrom has way too much powergrid. I know people like to be able to fit things, but you aren't supposed to just be able to fit everything you'd ever want (lol beam lasers). The Maelstrom is fairly tight on CPU, so that's the restriction, rather than grid.
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Burning Chrome
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
0
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Posted - 2013.04.09 06:40:00 -
[145] - Quote
The Typhoon has been one of my favourite ships in pvp for awhile now allowing me to make the most of an almost perfect set of skills in drones, missiles & projectiles to yield exceptional dps in some situations and still apply a reasonable amount of dps in most situations. It was a perfect odd ball ship and full of surprises with a big drone bay and options to use all sorts of interesting utility, just like Minnie ships should be.
I'm disappointed but not surprised to see the changes. If I wanted to fly a Raven I'd fly a Raven, not buy a Typhoon, same with the new Cyclone changes - if I wanted a Drake I'd get one.
We need to keep eve ships interesting with lots of variation based on your modules, not a game of rock paper scissors based on which hull is locked into which role like other MMO's. |
LOL56
Galactic Express
44
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Posted - 2013.04.09 06:42:00 -
[146] - Quote
I dont like the phoon changes one bit. I like the many utility highs and the strong drone bay and bandwidth of the current phoon. I don't mind losing the (useless) projectile bonus at all, but the drone nerfs and the loss of 2 utility highs seems like a tad much to me for a real second hull bonus (the thing almost every other ship has always had) and a single extra hard point. The mid slot over the high slot seems like a loss to me, picking up a web or TP for a newt/smartie/probe lancher seems like a step in the wronge direction. I would prefer to be able to continue to leverage an above average amount of SP in a typhoon, as opposed to getting a carbon copy of a raven. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
589
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Posted - 2013.04.09 07:03:00 -
[147] - Quote
Please, please take the feedback you're getting in this thread seriously and consider swapping the roles of the Tempest and Typhoon and adjusting their respective stats accordingly. It would also be a good idea to revisit the drone nerf to the Typhoon while you're at it.
With these latest rounds of "balancing" I'm seeing more and more of the Minmatar racial flavor disappearing. You're making Matari ships bulkier, slower and blowing up their sig radius. It just doesn't feel quite right in practical terms or in keeping with the lore of the game.
Guess I'd better start training Amarr BS as they're looking like the clear winners unless things change dramatically. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Sante Ixnay
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.04.09 08:13:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: As usual, we will be dividing battleships into roles rather than tiers. The distribution will be as follows: One 'Attack' Battleship for each race, and two 'Combat' Battleships for each race (except Caldari, who will retain the only 'Disruption' Battleship for the time being).
Just a small thought:
Would it hurt if Minmatar had two 'Attack' and only one 'Combat' Battleship? I think the first is more iconic in most players' imaginations for both the Phoon and the Tempest, and there's space for them to fill it in different ways.
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Tub Chil
Last Men Standing
43
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Posted - 2013.04.09 08:35:00 -
[149] - Quote
so typhoon had:
8 high slots 5 launchers 5 turrets 5 heavy drones
you could fit it as missile boat with 3x neuts, or as a projectile boat with 3x neuts while doing additional 300+ DPS with drones.
you didn't HAVE to have missiles and projectiles and drone skills to be good with phoon.
you could fit it with great tank or gank or neut platform, whatever you wanted. It is called VERSATILITY
now it is a standard grey ship capable for only 1 role. drone damage is gone, ability to fit autocanons is gone, ability to be a neut platform is gone.
why. |
Orakkus
Winds of Dawn Kraken.
94
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Posted - 2013.04.09 08:39:00 -
[150] - Quote
Yeah, I am not sure I like the changes done to the Tempest:
More Mass than the Megathron (Tempest slower, less manuverable) Less Speed than the Megathron (Tempest slower.. but not by much) Large Sig than the Megathron (Tempest much easier to hit and to hit harder)
Versus
More Shields for Tempest (made worse by the Larger sig) More Armor for Tempest (made worse by the increased mass) Same slot layout and two utility highs
I dunno, it almost seems like you could flip the stats and everyone would likely be happy. |
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