Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 100(-75)

Fixed the tempest sig to 420 (the number I actually have in the database), must have been a typo.

It did come up some to bring it more inline with the rest of the combat BS

But you have made it the largest of all attack gunboats. And it's a Minmatar ship

Please apply the remote reps to the maelstrom's shield boost bonus. The other ships' tanking bonuses are usually applied to remote reps (resist bonuses?) While this still doesn't protect against alphas, it still makes them more likely to survive in fleet battles.

It is not the matar's attack battleship, that would be the typhoon. The tempest is being groupes as combat, so it gets a lot more hp and some extra fitting, along with the increased sig.

Typhoon:
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500(+289) / 6000(+531) / 6000(-211)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .11(-.006) / 103600000(-2000000) / 15.8s(-1.16s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 100(-75)

It should also be mentioned that we hope to have a look at cruise missiles and torpedos in time for the summer expansion as well.

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 0 turrets(-4) , 6 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU(+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500(+289) / 6000(+531) / 6000(-211)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400(+400) / 1087s / 4.97 (+.3)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .11(-.006) / 103600000(-2000000) / 15.8s(-1.16s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 100(-75)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+5k) / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 19 Ladar Sensor Strength(+1)
Signature radius: 350(+30)

Typhoon:

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 0 turrets(-4) , 6 launchers(+2)

Pretty sure the Maelstrom doesn't need anymore help to be viable in fleets.

Fixed the tempest sig to 420 (the number I actually have in the database), must have been a typo.

It did come up some to bring it more inline with the rest of the combat BS

should we keep the turret slot for phoon so we can push up the DPS even no damage bonus?
instead of no more turrets can be fit on phoon.

Typhoon:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 0 turrets(-4) , 6 launchers(+2)

Pretty sure the Maelstrom doesn't need anymore help to be viable in fleets.

Tempest still need love.
7 gun (+1) remove a mid for a low to make a real gunboat like huricane or rupy, could be a good idea.

Too bad all of these ships are currently cost-prohibitive to me. I would like a +5% increase per level to insurance payout or -5% decrease in cost per level bonus on each one as well.

Also, it might be too OP or not viable, but how about a dedicated fleet ship. i.e. a bonus to remote reps received or given. We need more hulls

...
Tempest +60 sig radius
Typhoon +30 sig radius

Tempest still need love.
7 gun (+1) remove a mid for a low to make a real gunboat like huricane or rupy, could be a good idea.

Mate, you live in nullsec. Go run some hubs and you'll be able to afford one in a couple of hours tops.

I'm curious how you justify nerfing the Tempest and Typhoon that hard?

-Liang

Ed: Also, the new Typhoon 100% obsoletes the old Raven for mission running. Not that I ever run missions, but it's still something worth considering. :)

So eerm. The typhoon. Capless weapons, utility neut, extra meds for target painters and webs so it can hit ships of all sizes and a capless armour tank? Did you think about that perhaps being a tiny wee bit overpowered?

EDIT: Also why have you increased the cap given the reduced cap it will need and the greater ability it will have to fit cap boosters? Really? It's powerful enough already, I can see only a gang fit with ECM or overwhelming numbers taking one of those down

This. Minmatar ships are supposed to be smaller then the sig resolution of same class weapons. Thi seems to be getting thrown out as we go along.

Thx to put in another Caldari boat in the proud Minmatar fleet,after cyclone now the phoon , it's a shame this times to be a Minmatar Pilot

Thx to CCP which permit such a change in the ship storyline from matar
- steal us a turret point on the Nagl as Minmatar would have no more resources for more
- steal us the turrets on the old Cyclone ship and stick us this wretched Caldari launcher in our ship
- steal us our last bastion aginst low skill pilots and move the proud phoon into the Caldari ship series.

What's next,give us a Amaar hooded sweater or the strange Navy Caldari parting in our hair

There's a bad summer for Mataris!

Mancetti

Please consider doing this given what is happening to the Mega.

I dont want ****** missiles on my phoon !! :((

Let the phoon be the odd man out with the dual weapon bonus, like the scorp is the odd man out with the ecm bonus.

The mega is now designed to become a shield/DPS big boat, like a big talos. Maybe not a great idea, but i'am ont his thread to speak about minmatar boat, and when i see the epic new typhoon, i find the tempest more crap than before, and god, it was already crap. So making it a REAL gunboat armor, (maybe whith short powergrid or cpu to not be able to fit bigger gun too easy, or very small drone bay for the balance) could be a good idea.

Our redesign here aims to honor the spirit of the typhoon

So you took the phoon down a dark alley, shot it in the back of the head 3 times and pissed on the body. Oh well. At least the new geddon looks interesting.

There's a good reason you don't see Ravens in pvp. There's a good reason the cavalry Raven doesn't exist anymore (and hasn't for years and years and years). Unless you make it possible to apply around 65-80% of torp dps to a cruiser moving around 400-500 m/s, torp battleships will not happen.

Let the phoon be the odd man out with the dual weapon bonus, like the scorp is the odd man out with the ecm bonus. Or give it a web range bonus if you insist on the ******** notion of making it a torp boat.

Your redesigned phoon is worse in every way compared to the current phoon.

Typhoon:
It should also be mentioned that we hope to have a look at cruise missiles and torpedos in time for the summer expansion as well.

Am liking the changes to the typhoon with the exception of the drone bay. Why was it dropped to 100 from 125?

It was dropped from 125/175 to 100/100. Pretty Harsh.

Hey- the Typhoon's still better than the goddamn Raven, even with it's new stats.

If you want to see a truly awful ship, point yourself in the direction of the Caldari battleship thread. The only changes the Raven has received have been cuts to tank, cuts to drone quantity... And for what? 19 more meters per second, another med slot and a 1.1 second reduction in align time.

At least the Typhoon has a ******* explosion velocity bonus.

It was dropped from 125/175 to 100/100. Pretty Harsh.

You Failed.

I am REALLY disapointed. Tempest SLOWER than megatron? WTF ?
Where are the minmatar role gone into?
Its a matter of CONCEPT!! That is SO WRONG that is #!@*!@#*!@#*!@#!#. Sorry but it is!
Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST!

Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST!

I definitely agree on them conceptually shitting on Minmatar, but cost is player controlled via the market.

-Liang

Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000 / 7500 / 700

Looks like something fell off the Maelstrom there. When will the rust stop falling off? There's almost no structure left

Wouldn't the Tempest make more sense as the Attack BS? The Typhoon is an odd enough duck to begin with, making it the poster child for swift Minmatar attacks... with missiles? That makes no frelling sense. The Tempest description even calls it a gunship. Definition: 'a light craft armed with heavy guns'. I'd really like to see the roles in the OP reversed.

The Maelstrom is the big bruiser raining death from afar.
The Typhoon can be the lovably ugly trash can spewing missiles in the middle distance.
The Tempest is the swift sailed flagship meant to dart in and hit hard.

You Failed.

Pretty sure the Maelstrom doesn't need anymore help to be viable in fleets.

Typhoon:
...
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)

In my opinion while it's cool that the maelstrom is so versatile a hull, it doesn't match what you are trying to do with tiericide, and the changes you have planned for the rest of the battleships. You need to instead define a roll for it, rebalance some of the HP figures, and of course change the bonus's one way or another.

You're being slaves of the tiericide right now.

Hmm ...
Fast attack ship - destroyer: Thrasher by +30 km/s at 270 with guns
Fast attack ship - cruiser: Stabber by +50 km/s at 290 with guns
Fast attack ship - battlecruiser : Hurricane a tie by numbers, but a new player filling the attack ship role will have no missile skills
Fast attack ship - Battleship : Typhoon by +10 km/s at 130 with ?!Missiles?!

The phoon needs to be the second combat ship and work along the same path as the Talwar, Bellicose and Cyclone. Some sort of weird bonus (MWD sig reduction would be pretty sweet like the Talwar) and missiles.

Swap the speed of the tempest and phoon and then both progressions make sense:
Thrasher -> Stabber -> Hurricane -> Tempest .. all guns, all gun bonuses, all fastest, all softest
Talwar -> Bellicose -> Cyclone -> Typhoon ... all missiles, all medium speed, all medium toughness, weird one off bonus

Then the odd ships also kind of match:
Rupture and Maelstrom become the pure 'Combat' Ships but not that many as speed and utility are minmatar's tradition
EWAR ships in between, but not many as that isn't the Minmatar's strength either

Would have to agree.... make typhoon the brawler and tempest the attack BS and would make MUCH more sense. The tempest Shoudl be a hit and run battleship nto a brawler. IT lOOKS FRAGILE. the typhoon on other hand LOOKS like a ROCK!

The Tempest is my main concern though as that massive sig increase really kills it and kills the minmatar warfare philosophy. It just doens't make any sense that a Tempest can have equal sig radius to a Raven.

It is not the matar's attack battleship, that would be the typhoon. The tempest is being groupes as combat, so it gets a lot more hp and some extra fitting, along with the increased sig.

Tiericide -
Our effort to destroy ship tiers continues. With battleships, the tiers were most evident in HP amounts and price. All variations had an equal allocation of slots already (19), except drone bonused hulls or disruption hulls, which wonGÇÖt change. As usual, we will be dividing battleships into roles rather than tiers. The distribution will be as follows: One 'Attack' Battleship for each race, and two 'Combat' Battleships for each race (except Caldari, who will retain the only 'Disruption' Battleship for the time being). With these new roles in mind, we will be adjusting hitpoint amounts for all combat battleships near the former tier 3 hitpoint numbers, while the attack hulls will sit closer to the former tier 2s. As with other ship classes, attack battleships will be faster, more agile, and will focus more on damage application and projection than their combat counterparts. Cost of production will be adjusted to reflect tiericide, but so far we have not settled on exact numbers.

It is not the matar's attack battleship, that would be the typhoon. The tempest is being groupes as combat, so it gets a lot more hp and some extra fitting, along with the increased sig.

The more you look at it, the more any niche-role the Tempest has ever carved for itself, became someone elses proper role, then all its benefits were taken away and a few HP and a "deal with it" post-it added.

Even the introduction text to it reads "we don't know what it's supposed to do, but you always found a way to use it. happy searching".

Tempest still need love.
7 gun (+1) remove a mid for a low to make a real gunboat like huricane or rupy, could be a good idea.

Typhoon:
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 100(-75)

typo I assume?

PS. remember the Tempest will be one of the few ships except drone boats capable of using 2 utility slots for RR or Neuts. That is still rather nasty to run into and Tempest doesn't look like it need more help than the HP and powergrid it already received.

I am REALLY disapointed. Tempest SLOWER than megatron? WTF ?

Where are the minmatar role gone into?

Its a matter of CONCEPT!! That is SO WRONG that is #!@*!@#*!@#*!@#!#. Sorry but it is!

Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST!

What? a shorter range ship being fast enough to get into range? GASP may it never be!

I think I finally get the Tempest nerf, too many cap/super kills by execution Tempest hotdrops. Sure we now have the mini-bhal but you expect us to honestly believe you will be able to put out the same dps and neuting power?

Pretty sure the Maelstrom doesn't need anymore help to be viable in fleets.

Maelstrom has way too much powergrid. I know people like to be able to fit things, but you aren't supposed to just be able to fit everything you'd ever want (lol beam lasers).

As usual, we will be dividing battleships into roles rather than tiers. The distribution will be as follows: One 'Attack' Battleship for each race, and two 'Combat' Battleships for each race (except Caldari, who will retain the only 'Disruption' Battleship for the time being).

Good Story.

If you are going to **** on the Typhoon you may as well be bold and decisive about it. An Armor tanking Raven is silly. It also doesn't fit into the Breacher - Cyclone - ?? lineup at all. I'd make the Phoon a 8-6-6 layout with a launcher ROF bonus and the shield boost bonus. You can leave the navy issue Phoon alone to satisfy us on the backend.

Give the Maelstrom an optimal or tracking bonus. This along with its ROF bonus would cement it as an arty platform/ fleet vessel.

The Tempest is actually decent now. I don't like the sig increase, but it's EHP has been brought up to Maelstrom levels. It's fitting grid got a significant increase. While it has 10 effective turrets compared to the Mael's 10.66, it also has two extra highs that can fit unbonused torp launchers or heavy neuts. It can armor or shield tank. It IS quintessential Minmatar.

Kind of agreeing with the stuck in a box comments...
yes all the numbers are balancing out, and roles are being filled... but i think your taking too much character out of battleships in this case, not enough racial uniqueness.

Tempest is the hurricanes big brother. The nimble brawler, uses smarts to kill but doesn't forget its a battleship.
Maelstrom is the grizzled veteran the dependable fighter. It wades in to a fight and everyone knows it.
Typhoon is an enigma. When it lands on field it worries the opponent. All they know is its going to hurt!

That to me is the essence of the Minmatar BS's

-I think the Maelstrom being a ASB ship should have less shield HP and certainly less armour HP than the tempest.
-Also switch the drone bandwidth around so the tempest gets 100 and mael 75 since the mael has 8 turrets and the pest has only 6.
-On the pest I would move a high to a low so it can actually armour tank properly.

typo in the OP. "Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000 / 7500 / 700" on the Mael.

So Tempest gets HUGE, and gets some tank. I think I might want it all back. Its an inversion - the low sig was the tank, now its fatter and has more tank? Matari boats are 'small' but this thing is enormous! What was the point?


The Pest is pointless - more tank - but huge target - its no longer minmatar.

I kindof died inside - why oh why do the Caldari/Amarr get their racial Ewar represented in BS when theirs is the most useful of the racial Ewar. I dont see a nice painting or webbing bonus on minmatar (phoon perhaps), or a nice gallente scram range or damp bonus.

THAT! I want a MINMATAR BATTLESHIP. Neither the maesltrom or the tempest are minmatar. The maelstrom I was already used to it. But do not steal my last proper minmatar battleship

THIS. Typhoon and Tempest were true minmatar battleships, and now you want to turn them into an armor raven and...whatever that thing is. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes more is bad.

Edit:
Actually, I want to clarify something. The new Typhoon isn't a bad ship in terms of viability. Hell, just looking at it, you can see it's clearly an "Armor Raven", and in many ways outclasses the existing raven. Nobody is saying the new Typhoon is unbalanced. The issue is that it doesn't fit minmatar. At all. I would rather we have a weaker ship and retain our racial identity than a stronger ship that is generic and boring. If I wanted to fly a Raven I'd just crosstrain to Caldari. And I do *not* want to fly a Raven.

I think the Typhoon Fleet Issue will be the super versatile platform, following the path of the Scythe FI.

Upon consideration, I think that if CCP is insistant that the Typhoon loses its dual weapon systems, then it should become a low sig heavy hitting missile armored brick with drone support for utility.

Leave the fast attack role for the Tempest and max out its projectile damage and speed with the two extra utility slots which can be fitted with either unbonused missiles or nuets or some other utility module. Right now the Tempest is simply a poor mans maelstrom and will have no use on the battlefield.

No one is really saying that the ship changes being purposed makes these ships non-viable.

CCP Rise there's only 45 difference in sig radius between the phoon and the brutix any particular reason?

I fear that racial traits are being scrubbed away in the name of balancing.

Yes, they certainly are. Although as you say the Typhoon is having its unique minmatar flavour wiped away and essentially being turned into an armored raven, it would still be a useful ship for sure.

But that is not the case with the Tempest. I can't see any useful role for it now which either another ships, or simply the maelstrom would perform much better.

Welcome to the Tech 1 Battleship rebalance, fasten your seatbelts!

Typhoon:


Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 0 turrets(-5) , 6 launchers(+1)

seems odd that the phoon has 7 lows but is a shield tanker..... i would suggest you minus 500 shield add 1300 armour and reduce its mass down to about 95,500,000kg.

And do a similar mass on the mega say 94,000,000kg
and Apoc to about 96,500,000kg and raven about the same

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Hey guys

We're going to post a few tweaks tomorrow based on feedback from all the threads, minmatar included.

To answer a couple things though -

I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.

Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)

Really the phoon comparison is a surprise?............ and its also clearly a shield tanker according to its higher shield HP than armour HP despite the odd slot layout as plating it will kill its speed and these attack battleships aren't nearly as fast and agile as you seem to think..
Make the pest a heavy armour tanker

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

I think having two attack BSs in the minmatar lineup would be a nice break from the current tiericide treatment also. Confidence has been restored, thanks for listening to the proposals on the Tempest.

Now just need to address the typhoon drone bay nerf in my opinion and things are looking very good once again.

Hey guys

We're going to post a few tweaks tomorrow based on feedback from all the threads, minmatar included.

To answer a couple things though -

I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.

Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)

I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

-snip-

Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.

Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)

Hey guys
(...) having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category (...)

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Hey guys

We're going to post a few tweaks tomorrow based on feedback from all the threads, minmatar included.

To answer a couple things though -

I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.

Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)

Hey guys

We're going to post a few tweaks tomorrow based on feedback from all the threads, minmatar included.

To answer a couple things though -

I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.

Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)

Hurrah! Nice to be listened to isn't it people?

Yeah, I'm super happy with two attack BS's :)

Thank you for the Tempest. I think that some changes to the slot layout would immensely help the Tempest toward shield tanking. So that we have one Armor Attack BS (Typhoon) and one Shield Attack BS (Tempest).

Hey guys

We're going to post a few tweaks tomorrow based on feedback from all the threads, minmatar included.

To answer a couple things though -

I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.

Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)

Yep, it seems that the lack of replies is "normal" for a thread with so few posts when compared to others.
(It also leads to concerns in how they are interpreting their so many ship statistics).

But that exact issue as been discusses in LOT'S of threads, and there are ZERO ccp responses about those concerns.
This Typhoon was expected to be honest, just look at the past Cyclone.

The Tempest is 'in line' with what they are doing to the Minmatar race traits lately.
The 10 years "survivor"... I think you finally killed it, gratz.

Additionally, you really don't need extra range on cruise missiles, and torpedoes desperately need the reduced explosion radius to get anywhere near their paper DPS.

Hey guys

We're going to post a few tweaks tomorrow based on feedback from all the threads, minmatar included.

To answer a couple things though -

I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.

Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)

while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

see what you said there? the raven is useless and the typhoon got everything on its side? why the hell would anyone even waste time on a ******* raven?

what? since when is the phoon a shield tanker? It can at the moment be tanked on shield and armour and in the future both tankvariants will be possible.

That said I dont like the new Phoon. Yes it will still be a good ship maybe even better than before but it loses a lot of that "swiss army knife" feeling. At the moment a phoon can be either tanked on shield(not very good but it can work) or on armour. It can either use torps or autocannons as main weapons and can use the other as support or can use the rest highslots to either use neuts or remote rep.

After those changes this variability isnt given anymore.