On one hand you are saying the typhoon is able to nano and has absurd speed, yet the tempest has only 20 extra signature radius, and only 10m/s slower, yet your saying it is useless. Why not argue to bring the Tempest to the Typhoon levels then if that is what you believe. It sounds to me as though you have your mind set on making the Tempest a heavy combat ship where it will always be outclassed by the maeltrom.



I don't recall many people complaining it wasn't a shield tanker. There have been a couple asking for an extra mid, or an extra low, which tells me that the slot layout is just about right.

Likewise. I would've almost preferred seeing the Typhoon as a combat drone boat with missiles or guns as secondary. Maybe a resistance bonus + drone damage/hp bonus. I get this is a way-off idea though.

I can see the logic behind the proposed changes, but would it really hurt to keep the bigger drone bay? Even with a limited bandwidth?

That is not a hangar opening, but rather the fuel cap covering the WD-40 tanks .. hence the size .. also explains the general shape of the ship .. big 'ol can

The Cobmat tempest was useless. Eveerythgin It coudl dfo the maelstrom could do better. And the difference in HP between the previous proposla and current one is NOT 30 K EHP. ITs barely over 1K bae HP that translates to aroudn 2.5 K EHP.


The sgianture bonus is MUCH MUCH MUCH more significateive than 3 K EHP

Well, right now Minmatar are not a drone race, as Gallente or Amarr do.

On one hand you are saying the typhoon is able to nano and has absurd speed, yet the tempest has only 20 extra signature radius, and only 10m/s slower, yet your saying it is useless. Why not argue to bring the Tempest to the Typhoon levels then if that is what you believe. It sounds to me as though you have your mind set on making the Tempest a heavy combat ship where it will always be outclassed by the maeltrom.



I don't recall many people complaining it wasn't a shield tanker. There have been a couple asking for an extra mid, or an extra low, which tells me that the slot layout is just about right.

People have been requesting an extra mid for better shield-tanking & nanoing about. There's no other reason to ask for one when your ships already got 5

The base speed between the Typhoon & Tempest may be close, but the difference between the two of them is pretty huge. The reason? Agility & Mass. The Tempest is a fat brick compared to the Typhoon.

As for Minmatar not getting their 5 heavies anymore. Think of it this way, you're still better off than Caldari

Also some people have been asking for an extra mid and an extra low slot in this thread, which shows that some people like to shield tank and others like to armour tank the Tempest, which shows to me the current slot layout is doing its job perfectly.

If the tempest was actually a shield tanker, then the discrepancy between the speed and agility of the phoon would make sense... And so would the anaemic dps, You could try to make a better armour tanker I suppose (with more low slots), (would require more drone dps and to relook at the speed/agility stats) but it really doesn't make sense given how many ships can do a similar thing.

To me if you are going to fix the Tempest into a role, then make it an armour tanker. That way it can utilise its low sig which would be completely negated by the shield tank, and also the maelstrom already has a better shield tank so no point having two ships doing the same thing.

But in my opinion I would leave the slot layout as it is, and then alter other attributes if it needs further buffs.

Also the Tempest puts out roughly the same dps and the Maelstrom, so I dont know where your getting this idea that is has anaemic dps?

And we've come full circle.
Keep the slot layout, keep the sig/speed, & give the Tempest its previously suggested HP increase.

There's no way it will be OP, and the ship won't be pigeonholed into a shield/armor role.

This is the point though, when you know how to fly the ships properly then the extra sig and speed can make a massive difference. When you don't know what you are doing then you will die in a blaze of inglorious flames. That's one of the things I like about flying Minmatar ships, your on the edge of your seat trying to max out your speed and angular.

Also I noticed you looking at Transversal there, if your trying to avoid a guns tracking then it is angular velocity which matters. You can have high transversal, but if your orbiting miles out then your angular is still going to be low.

Also you have a permanent damage mitigation against missile and torpedos, you take longer to lock, and your ship will be more difficult to scan down. So there are loads of benefits to the low sig when you know how to work with it.

Do you put 2 or 3 gyros on your armor tanking tempest fit?

My point was that most of the time you will not have the luxury of being able to take advantage of a small sig; my phrasing of "HIGHLY situational" was euphamistic for "rarely relevant" and that's true. Seriously, go to EFT, and compare two BSs with 60mm sig difference. Tell me that'll matter in more than one engagement out of 100. I was looking at something like a 590 shield rokh vs a 400 armor mega--a MUCH bigger difference than you're discussing. The attacking BS had huge window in which they did at least 95% of their damage to the smaller sig. There was a range of a few KM--max, with a circular orbit!--when the mega was under the guns of the shooter and the rokh wasn't. The mega got a free bonus, too, being faster than the rokh, which I didn't correct for. Sig is a great mechanic; it is excellent for making frigs hard to hit by BS, yet still requiring pilot skill out of frig. It is hardly ever a deciding factor in bs vs. bs.

Skirmish links will lower the sig radius further. Halo implants (hi low sec!) will do the same. With both - that Typhoon and Tempest will actually sit at 165m and 180m respectively.

If your talking about Auto cannons, pulse lasers, etc, then it is obviously difficult, and almost impossible to outrun the tracking on those guns with another BS. But then you have the option to kite them instead if your fitted in an agile sniper fit. But its another story when your looking at long range artillery, beam lasers etc, you have quite a large window in which you can mitigate more than half their damage.

And then we are not even mentioning missiles, cruise missile and torps will do significantly lower damage to a ship with sig at sub 350 going at around 500m/s +

I have been dusting off some old fits on the Tempest (while at work... hehehe) and checking it out with the new PG. Some quick observations-

The shield buffered Tempest comes up at LEAST 20k EHP short vs. a similarly fitted Maelstrom.
A pure gank Tempest (800 AC, Torps, flight of Valkyries, gyro x 3) will do 1200 DPS normal and 1300 overheated.
There is no arty fit for the Tempest that justifies it over the Mael.

Here is the thing- The Maelstrom is your go to for Projectiles - arty in particular- and shield tanking. The Typhoon has great speed, torp DPS, and armor tanking to offer. The Tempest offers unpredictability and utility. It's pretty clear that many don't regard that as enough.

I'll keep this real simple. Rather then mess with slots, bonuses, or HP- change the drone bay. Increase it to at least 125m^3. This will let armor tankers pad their DPS a bit. It would give shield tankers a bit more firepower to justify the lack of EHP compared to the Mael. Lastly it gives - get this - utility to the last Swiss Army knife BS in the Minmatar That is all.

Hmm, interesting idea actually. Perhaps then it could take over the current role of the Typhoon pretty nicely whilst the typhoon focuses on missiles.

Where has this sudden belief that we have to have missile ships everywhere come from? Are we Caldariatars or something?

The Tempest has had 4 missile hardpoints since the beginning of time.
People simply don't use the extra highs as torps.

For starters, I get the vibe that only the drone races are getting 5 heavies now. There are no Minmatar or Caldari spec ships that can run then (not including faction). I don't think an extra 100dps (maximum) from 5 heavies would make as big a difference as you'd think, and 4 unbonused heavies are barely a gain over a 221 configuration.

The ships weakness is in tanking potential.



The Tempest has had 4 missile hardpoints since the beginning of time.
People simply don't use the extra highs as torps.