As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.

This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour

Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.

Nice trolling attempt, come back with real numbers from a standing point of view considering normal average time spent playing per day how many days per week etc.

30M/h is trivial to attain and is even considered a very poor return for L4sGǪ and at that level, it's still twice as much as what one might expect from that kind of progression, so the main point remains.

When you consider the difference between the incoming dps of a level 3 and a level 4, you get rewarded for surviving and killing the higher-tanking rats in level 4s

GǪand is that twice as hard as an L3? Four times as hard? Eight times as hard?
Or is it really just as easy, only with slightly more expensive equipment?

Replying in a stealth "nerf hi-sec" thread.

Everything's easy once you fit officer modules but there's doing a mission, and then there's doing a mission right. Do a mission correctly, and you can push 100m / hour.

Mess up the spawns, and you'll be the proud owner of a new pod.

Whats a mission?

GǪand is that twice as hard as an L3? Four times as hard? Eight times as hard?
Or is it really just as easy, only with slightly more expensive equipment?

The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.

Why is there an assumption or expectation of linear payouts?

The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.

Yes lvl 1-3 missions need a buff, Level 4s are steady good income, but if you compare them in skills/ships needed VS faction warfare they are pretty low income.

Please, explain how do you make 60mil/hour in L4s? I can't make even 30mil/h for Caldari navy (poor LP shop choice I guess)

The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.

Ignore loot, ignore salvage, ignore all but the highest-bounty ships, blast through to the objective, get/kill it, get a new mission ASAP, repeat.

The biggest error people make when trying to increase their L4 income is to come back to loot and salvage GÇö it massively reduces your income unless you can do large batch jobs (e.g. 10 missions in rapid succession in one system using a Noctis)GǪ and even then, it's questionable.

What is it about someone doing their own thing and running missions that bothers you?

Also, so what if they are making a lot of isk, what concern of that is yours?

The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.

Ignore loot, ignore salvage, ignore all but the highest-bounty ships, blast through to the objective, get/kill it, get a new mission ASAP, repeat.

The biggest error people make when trying to increase their L4 income is to come back to loot and salvage GÇö it massively reduces your income unless you can do large batch jobs (e.g. 10 missions in rapid succession in one system using a Noctis)GǪ and even then, it's questionable.

The risks are far too high, not too low.

In L4s?! LMAO
The only way for the risks to be lower would be if the missions auto-completed themselves when you clicked the GÇ£acceptGÇ¥ button.

The risk in L4s is zero. The only way to create some is to have no tank at all, but that's your decision GÇö not something the missions themselves are designed around.

Aside from the fact that the way EVE is put together, the whole Gǣdo your own thingGǥ doesn't really existGǪ nothing. The problem with missions is that their effort:reward is out of whack.

It's a single economy. Any given activity spewing out ISK at an unreasonable rate is problematic.

Ignore loot, ignore salvage, ignore all but the highest-bounty ships, blast through to the objective, get/kill it, get a new mission ASAP, repeat.

The biggest error people make when trying to increase their L4 income is to come back to loot and salvage GÇö it massively reduces your income unless you can do large batch jobs (e.g. 10 missions in rapid succession in one system using a Noctis)GǪ and even then, it's questionable.

But you are attacking the problem from the wrong angle because not every mission runner is able to get those time:isk ratio. The guy just starting lvl4 is not chunring them at breakneck speed in his faction fit pirate BS. The guy who just bough his 1st BS with only somewhat decent skill in a lvl 4 will no be breaking the bank at all. The real difference come from the fact that lvl 4 is the end level. Nobody really run lvl 3 in faction fit ship with perfect set of implants to maximise thier isk and thats why the income seems out of whack. How much could people really earn if they did put the effort to see what is the real upper limit of lvl 3 when chained and run at neckbreak speed in really optimised ship/fit.

Increase the spending people do on high level mission to do them optimally if you really want to nerf the income of high level runners. The LP store is probably the best palce for this since you can eliminate ISK from the game without impacting the lesser mission runner as much.

The real difference come from the fact that lvl 4 is the end level.

What even happened to lvl 5 missions???

Close, but not quite. I'd say that the problem is that people treat L4s as if it's the end level, and that the missions themselves have such high income caps that it helps with this illusion. The entire system needs to be disabused of this incorrect notion.

Ideally, that cap should be set lower so that once you've gathered up that pimp mission ship, L4s no longer offer any improvement GÇö you're banging against ceiling and need to move on to something more lucrative that's better suited for the level of skill and equipment you've amassed. Yes, the casual player might never reach that ceiling, but that's fine too, and rather shows that it wouldn't really be a bad thing.

That progression needs more fixes than that. The lower-end could certainly use a bump in income; more difficulty needs to be introduced earlier; the jumps in both income and opposition need to be smoothed out; a natural Gǣit's time to move onGǪGǥ endpoint needs to be added to all of them.

To cap the reward potential of lvl 4, change how LP are given since top mission runner count on LP to make bank not bounties and mission isk rewards. Force people to actaully clear mission field for full LP payment so they can't blitz for more money than killing. It will slow them down thus reducing thier isk/hour cap. The lower skill pilot who can't blitz anyway won't really be affected.

HmmGǪ could work. The question is how. Also, with less LP being handed out, the LP store goods would go up in value and this would somewhat counteract such a change.

Maybe if there was some kind of ramp-up for both LP and ISK payouts? The missions are already scored by how long they take on average, but what if some immediate reward-for-time balancing as well, such as the LP and ISK rewards not being fixed, but rather what they max out at, and then they constantly increase at [magically determined rate] per minute while the mission is active. So if a mission gives 4k LP + 4M ISK, it takes 10 minutes of ramp-up before that maximum is reached; if it's 8k + 8M, it takes 20 minutes to max it out. Come home too soon, and you get proportionally lower (semi-)fixed rewards.

No high sec level 4s need a nerf.

Its the one that stands out after all.

You want to start another campaign to destroy high sec income

]

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour

Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.
.

stop me if I am wrong, but is Mission primary and possible only isk printing in EVE online?

Are you high on something? Making over 60 million an hour wtf .... If lucky flying solo and with a standard bs you're looking at most

What is the benefit to the rest of EVE if you lower LV 4 mission payouts?

A better balanced economy and better balanced gameplay ecology.

I know you know a lot about this Tippia but that doesn't tell me a lot. That's more like a campaign slogan, no offense.

I get that is what people seem to be aiming for, but I don't see how this would come into effect, exactly, given some of the potential cons: More drain on null sec and fewer players for example.

What part am I missing?

[quote=Amarra Mandalin][quote=Tippia]


BEGGING IN LOCAL SHOULD NOT BE A CORE GAMEPLAY MECHANIC!

I know you know a lot about this Tippia but that doesn't tell me a lot. That's more like a campaign slogan, no offense.

I get that is what people seem to be aiming for, but I don't see how this would come into effect, exactly, given some of the potential cons: More drain on null sec and fewer players for example.

What part am I missing?

More drain on null sec is a good thing, and it's rather unlikely that people would quit the game GÇö they'd just move on to some other activity that satisfies their demand for income. That is also a good thing.

The problem with L4s has always been that it's ridiculously out-of-whack effort/reward ratio has had two very bad effects: one is that it spews massive amounts of ISK into the economy; the other is that it obsoletes or overshadows other gameplay. Much like highsec industry, it provides such an unreasonably high benchmark for earning that you'd be stupid not to take advantage of it, and it leaves no room for additions because to make them sensible and balanced, they have to be made a worse choice than missions. The first incarnation of the post-dominion nullsec anomalies illustrated this: finally, there was something that was unquestionably better to do than L4s in highsec, and they soon had to be scaled back because they were just breaking the game in terms of how much ISK they rained over everyone.

GǪand that's the entire trick: if L4s are made more sensible, it would open up for different (both new and existing) activities to take over that high-end segment, which allows for more granular approaches to income balancing.

Tippia, the problem isn't that you can make lots of safe ISK - the problem is that there is no reason to pass it around.
There need to be more things that you can only get in lo or null sec that people in high sec need.

CONDOR. FIT FOR A LEVEL ONE MISSION.

COSTS 5 MILLION ISK.

I mission all the time, can someone show me how to make 60 mil/hour.

I fly a t2 fit paladin with some faction mods too. So yeah, the whole 60 mil an hour, is such BS.

Probably 20 mil an hour. Maybe 10 mil from bounties, 3 mil from reward, and some LP and Loot.

But certainly not 60 mil an hour

Listen G thug home skillet, we don't appreciate your facts

I mission all the time, can someone show me how to make 60 mil/hour.

I fly a t2 fit paladin with some faction mods too. So yeah, the whole 60 mil an hour, is such BS.

Probably 20 mil an hour. Maybe 10 mil from bounties, 3 mil from reward, and some LP and Loot.

But certainly not 60 mil an hour

inflation KILLS New Players.

Its not BS. You don't run them very efficiently.

No "normal" mission runner using one character makes anything CLOSE to 60 mil an hour. Period.

It's such a common lie it's been a running joke for years ffs.

"lol I make 300mil an hour doing missions, and I'm asleep half the time. u must b dum"

Read this

When you take into account that he is low balling on the loot and that both loot and salvage values have gone up due to inflation over the last 3 years and the latest buff to the CNR and cruise missiles its rather easy to see that 60 mil is well within reach.

That guy you linked literally said he was trying to do the most efficient L4 mission running possible... I'm not sure why you're bringing him up in response to someone who just said "normal" in quotes to make it really clear... That link does not post to a "normal" mission runner. I mean, his first bullet point literally says:

"High-skilled, close to perfect character in well-fitted gank Torp Golem"

20 million isk wallet ticks for L4 missions being "normal" is a pretty astounding claim... Unless you think a "High-skilled, close to perfect character in well-fitted gank Torp Golem" is the "norm"...

Yeesh...

this game is just over a decade old. Do you honestly think most of the 500k accounts in this game are scrubs?

At the very least there are tens of thousands of people with near perfect skills for whatever their chosen top end mission ship is. It would be moronic to think that this kind of mission runner is rare.

I don't think the risk can be adjusted without removing them from hi-sec due to the nature of missions tbh.

this game is just over a decade old. Do you honestly think most of the 500k accounts in this game are scrubs?

At the very least there are tens of thousands of people with near perfect skills for whatever their chosen top end mission ship is. It would be moronic to think that this kind of mission runner is rare.

Yeah I'm not an elite super hard core player like you, so yeah I might not run them efficiently. but neither does the other 90% of mission runners. Most mission runners I personally know dont make insane amounts of isk. I think you are suffering from the ivory tower syndrome.

A large number of people out in 0.0 have high sec alts to do just this because it works out as better more reliable income than out in 0.0.

I also don't do it. I am 2 months into making a lvl 4 mission runner but it can already do 20 mil an hour with a badly skilled raven.

This kind of mission runner is far from rare, which is why people set up mission corps in high sec to farm these people via tax. You can fund supers just by taxing them at 5%. A large number of people out in 0.0 have high sec alts to do just this because it works out as better more reliable income than out in 0.0.

Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Missions should be dynamic, never static, that will reduce farming and make it more interesting and varied.

I should be able to do the same mission outcome, but with a different challenge each time.

Payouts on all missions should also scale (up and down) depending on grid activity and fleet activity, kind of like inursions.

Farming is ... by definintion, boring, if I wanted to farm, I would play a farming simulator or something.

Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.

Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour

No "normal" mission runner using one character makes anything CLOSE to 60 mil an hour. Period.

It's such a common lie it's been a running joke for years ffs.

"lol I make 300mil an hour doing missions, and I'm asleep half the time. u must b dum"

Including me!

It's not that the income is so very awesome, it's just that it's so low attention, so it's easily multi-tasked.

How else can we see officer fitted ravens being ganked

Frap it, I'd like to see this badly skilled raven make 20 mil an hour. The point is most people don't make tons of isk on missions. Show me these 60 mil/hour mission runners. I see more mission runners scrapping by. Anyone can claim to make lots of isk, but where is the proof.

Whats a mission?

Null sec ratters, Blops ops make some nice kills on those, enough to say there are as much null sec gimpy carebears than in high sec, null sec making it more interesting with high grade slave and crystal set worth already for 3 to 5billion the pod.

Simple answer: if you know where to search you find those anywhere and in places you might as well not expect them at all.

If you're only pulling 60m an hour.... you're doing it wrong.

This thread again. Well, good thing CCP doesn't take you seriously.

30M/h is trivial to attain and is even considered a very poor return for L4sGǪ and at that level, it's still twice as much as what one might expect from that kind of progression, so the main point remains.

Which give us further evidence that high sec bears are not "just scraping by" but are infact, earning enough isk to splash out on some very expensive toys.

I must be playing a different game, cause for me i make 40M max per hour doing level4 mission. Do you salvage as well?

The only thing that needs to be really nerf to the ground in this game is multiboxing with tier programs then come on forums claim they make 100M/ hour in high sec running lvl4 missions or whatever amount doing whatever crap in game they do.

Eve is probably the MMO having the highest number of characters multibox playing in different areas of the game considering the total number of active players per 24H

What a nice joke "multiboxed space ship alts online"

Which give us further evidence that high sec bears are not "just scraping by" but are infact, earning enough isk to splash out on some very expensive toys.

No. All it prove is that the stuff is available in Jita. It's definately not high sec mission runner's fault if all that low/null sec loot ends up in high sec. Anyone can buy a few plex for real money and trasform them into a faction fit pwnmobile.

The income retardation come from min amxer pushing the enveloppe in a min maxer game. It you just prevent blitzing in missions by lets say forcing everyone to kill all enemy in every single pockets before they can turn in the mission, you would slow down the income by a good margin since every single high isk.hours mission runner keep always saying the money is in LP and to stop clearing the pockets and blitz all the time.

FFS the reason of why it goes so high is written all over the boards. THE MONEY IS IN LP REWARDS. This mean you have to deal with the LP. The LP store even eliminate ISK from the game to counter some inflation so maybe we can kill 2 birds with one stone by tweaking stuff there too?

Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.

Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour


I believe the next in the pattern should have been 16 million per hour... not 60 million. The error is not with the mission rewards themselves but with the inflated bounties available in these missions.

16/60
8/30
4/15

round it up to say 5/15...

1/3

Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.

Level 1 Mission... 7 million per hour.

Level 2 Mission... 15 million per hour.

Level 3 Mission... 30 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour.


Either a 66% decrease in one tier of missions or 350% increase in the level 1 through 3 missions.

Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.


As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.

This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.

I have a screenshot somewhere... ah, here it is. made this in an hour of level 4s. even caught a suspect!

Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.

Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour


I believe the next in the pattern should have been 16 million per hour... not 60 million. The error is not with the mission rewards themselves but with the inflated bounties available in these missions.

16/60
8/30
4/15

round it up to say 5/15...

1/3

Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.

Level 1 Mission... 7 million per hour.

Level 2 Mission... 15 million per hour.

Level 3 Mission... 30 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour.


Either a 66% decrease in one tier of missions or 350% increase in the level 1 through 3 missions.

Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.


As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.

This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.

GǪand is that twice as hard as an L3? Four times as hard? Eight times as hard?
Or is it really just as easy, only with slightly more expensive equipment?

Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.

Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour


I believe the next in the pattern should have been 16 million per hour... not 60 million. The error is not with the mission rewards themselves but with the inflated bounties available in these missions.

16/60
8/30
4/15

round it up to say 5/15...

1/3

Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.

Level 1 Mission... 7 million per hour.

Level 2 Mission... 15 million per hour.

Level 3 Mission... 30 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour.


Either a 66% decrease in one tier of missions or 350% increase in the level 1 through 3 missions.

Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.


As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.

This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.

Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.

Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour


I believe the next in the pattern should have been 16 million per hour... not 60 million. The error is not with the mission rewards themselves but with the inflated bounties available in these missions.

16/60
8/30
4/15

round it up to say 5/15...

1/3

Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.

Level 1 Mission... 7 million per hour.

Level 2 Mission... 15 million per hour.

Level 3 Mission... 30 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour.


Either a 66% decrease in one tier of missions or 350% increase in the level 1 through 3 missions.

Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.


As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.

This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.

Let me call BS on this since there are no mission that could of given you 2 stats implants in a single hour. There are also no proof of how long it took to get all of that. It could of taken you 7 years and it would look exactly the same in your orca hangar.

In L4s?! LMAO
The only way for the risks to be lower would be if the missions auto-completed themselves when you clicked the GÇ£acceptGÇ¥ button.

The risk in L4s is zero. The only way to create some is to have no tank at all, but that's your decision GÇö not something the missions themselves are designed around.

Replying in a stealth "nerf hi-sec" thread.

Let me call BS on this since there are no mission that could of given you 2 stats implants in a single hour. There are also no proof of how long it took to get all of that. It could of taken you 7 years and it would look exactly the same in your orca hangar.

Aside from the fact that the way EVE is put together, the whole Gǣdo your own thingGǥ doesn't really existGǪ nothing. The problem with missions is that their effort:reward is out of whack.

It's a single economy. Any given activity spewing out ISK at an unreasonable rate is problematic.

So blitzing gives lots of isk. Do most people do this? Does a new char running L4 solo in a T1 with partial T2 fit T1 BS get 60m/hr, or are we talking someone in a T2 / faction fitted BS/T2 BS/Faction BS?

What is the training time for the latter vs the former. What is the income in a T1 battleship?

The big issue that I have with level 4's is that you're essentially forced to train for battleships, even if you have no plans of using battleships regularly.


I wish there were more income options for frigate/cruiser pilots. You could farm level 3's I guess, but they're really boring.

The big issue that I have with level 4's is that you're essentially forced to train for battleships, even if you have no plans of using battleships regularly.


I wish there were more income options for frigate/cruiser pilots. You could farm level 3's I guess, but they're really boring.

As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.

I know this is just a game. I know I am completely anonymous when I play it.

Yet I still can't lower myself to begging.

Things can't get much worse than what we did to this generation of millennials. I'm embarrassed to be one of the post boomers that allowed this to happen to our children.

Mr Epeen

I was about to reply I don't make 60 mill an hour doing lvl4's. Doing a bit of math makes me believe I sometimes do. I'm usually at 45 including the occasional salvaging tho.

Ofcourse everybody makes more, I'm a n00b, I need a real ship, I suck at EVE etc (apologies if I missed another useless drone-like response).

Compare this to the 1,5 bill I make in 0.0 per hour and I dont think lvl4's payout too much. For your avarege normal dude they payout close to nothing at all.

No risk = no isk seems honered.

I'll admit that the definition of "having ISK" differs between people.

TL;DR
Useless "nerf high-sec" thread

I believe in having a bit of proof so recently ran some missions. I used Mega, MNI, Dom, DNI, Vindi. Rail Vindi was best overall. I had a booster alt in Vulture.

I have several agents with 9+ standings. I tried Blitzing as well as salvaging with Noctis. Sold LPs for ammo.

My findings - 50 mill per hour is not possible. Its realistically around 20 to 30 mill.

I believe in having a bit of proof so recently ran some missions. I used Mega, MNI, Dom, DNI, Vindi. Rail Vindi was best overall. I had a booster alt in Vulture.

I have several agents with 9+ standings. I tried Blitzing as well as salvaging with Noctis. Sold LPs for ammo.

My findings - 50 mill per hour is not possible. Its realistically around 20 to 30 mill.

I also did Epic Arc and that took a good 10 hours of play time and made me 350 mill including selling sisters probes.

The only missions that you can make 50 an hour on were faction killing missions through tag selling but they have serious consequences.

Compare this to sitting in a safe null system far from empire and chaining 1.5 million rat anoms with a Thannys drones assigned to your Rattlesnake ( was watching Russians doing this today in PS ) and the L4s income looks bleak as.

I believe in having a bit of proof so recently ran some missions. I used Mega, MNI, Dom, DNI, Vindi. Rail Vindi was best overall. I had a booster alt in Vulture.

I have several agents with 9+ standings. I tried Blitzing as well as salvaging with Noctis. Sold LPs for ammo.

My findings - 50 mill per hour is not possible. Its realistically around 20 to 30 mill.

The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.

Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.

Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour


I believe the next in the pattern should have been 16 million per hour... not 60 million. The error is not with the mission rewards themselves but with the inflated bounties available in these missions.

16/60
8/30
4/15

round it up to say 5/15...

1/3

Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.

Level 1 Mission... 7 million per hour.

Level 2 Mission... 15 million per hour.

Level 3 Mission... 30 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour.


Either a 66% decrease in one tier of missions or 350% increase in the level 1 through 3 missions.

Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.


As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.

This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.

this game is just over a decade old. Do you honestly think most of the 500k accounts in this game are scrubs?

At the very least there are tens of thousands of people with near perfect skills for whatever their chosen top end mission ship is. It would be moronic to think that this kind of mission runner is rare.

You do not make 1.5 billion an hour in null.

So you want to nerf the potential for newer players because of them? What should the isk/hr for perfect skill chars be then? They really still grind l4s?

I Believe that the level 4 mission payouts are at a good level compared to other money making activities, but the level 2/3 ones could do with an increase....especially level 3s

I Believe that the level 4 mission payouts are at a good level compared to other money making activities, but the level 2/3 ones could do with an increase....especially level 3s

In application, nothing ever has probability of 1 (or 0), not even ship losses from ganking (on either side)... It doesn't matter if it's a constant. A risk is a risk is a risk, and costs with p=1 are also risks because they are still a cost-probability duplet.

The risk in L4s is zero.

From here.


From here.

The moral of the story is there is no such thing as zero risk... ever... as long as we're talking about those Eve professions I approve of. If we're talking about professions I disapprove of, well lulz, of course those are risk free.

In before Tippia's claim that there is no contradiction and hypocrisy and convolutes his conviction with "Tippia facts", because human error should not be accounted for in risk calculations when it comes to mission running.

They should ban battleships from level4s.

One of the biggest mistakes CCP has made over the last six years is to nerf null income while leaving high sec untouched.

They should ban battleships from level4s.

This thread has made it to 9 pages.

GD I am disappoint.

Aside from the fact that the way EVE is put together, the whole Gǣdo your own thingGǥ doesn't really existGǪ nothing. The problem with missions is that their effort:reward is out of whack.

It's a single economy. Any given activity spewing out ISK at an unreasonable rate is problematic.

That would inject too much isk into the system and do great harm to the game.

what you can do in high sec in PERFECT safety.

but if you don't undock you cant complete any missions ....

Show me on the Megathron where the nerf bat touched you...

Not true. There is one mission you can do without undocking; War Situation (the courier version.) If you have reports in your hangar, accept mission, click complete. A one second mission that provides 18,000 LP/min.

tbh anyone who claims that hi-sec is perfect safety for mission runners is both a deluded fool and a liar

A way to make money without ever losing anything but drones and ammo.
Also its been told to be ineffective if you dont bring a ship worth a couple billions, mostly ether marauders or T3 ships are good money maker apparently. And you need to fit at less 5 dead space and faction module.... because it makes so much more money having them there.
Stumbled when i heard how hard lvl4 missions could be i took my best ship, a Talos and did world collides who was supposed to be hard...

All sad i petitioned how easy missions where because i though it was a bug, but i got no response.

Well its not bloody dangerous if you aren't a tard and/or don't run around with a 13 billion isk officer fit.

Literally nowhere. The only improvements I could need is the option to strap on a jumpdrive so I can follow caps and blops around.


However what I said is true. Null has seem a boatload of nerfs to its income over the years ( almost all of them warrented) but high sec was not altered to match the changes. This is why we are now in the situation where there is no real reason to leave high sec because the risk just isnt worth it. You will earn around the same or more in high high sec these days.

not dangerous does not equal perfect safety


non-consensual pvp is always a possibility once you hit the undock button
just because it's less likely to happen in hi-sec does not mean it is never going to happen.
not all gankers gank for shiny loots or faction item laden kill-mails,

some just gank people for the hell of it and being/playing smart won't stop it happening.

This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.

Ignore loot, ignore salvage, ignore all but the highest-bounty ships, blast through to the objective, get/kill it, get a new mission ASAP, repeat.

The biggest error people make when trying to increase their L4 income is to come back to loot and salvage GÇö it massively reduces your income unless you can do large batch jobs (e.g. 10 missions in rapid succession in one system using a Noctis)GǪ and even then, it's questionable.

Psst, don't tell all that supid L4 farmers that you have to fly for a NPC corp with a good LP shop and blitz specific missions. As a matter of fact, i did an update on my ISK/h with blitzing missions. I was crazy enough to stop the time i need to complete the mission from the warpin, then i filtered the missions which have a greater than 1000LP/min ratio and started a 4h run with that missions declining everything else.
The LP ratio is about 38k LP/h and the ISK ratio including bounties and rewards with a very lowballing 2k ISK per LP is drumrolls:
120m/h.

Examples, the top 3 best missions LP/min are:
Recon (only part1) with 6125 LP/min (i need 1min to finish it)
Dread Pirate Scarlet with3459 LP/min (i need 2min and 30sec to finish it)
Stop The Thief with 3137 LP/min (i need 1min and 15sec to finish it)

That would inject too much isk into the system and do great harm to the game.

Too much isk?? As compared to the moon goo isk faucet? Seriously?.....no seriously?

Too much isk?? As compared to the moon goo isk faucet? Seriously?.....no seriously?

Well its not bloody dangerous if you aren't a tard and/or don't run around with a 13 billion isk officer fit.

Moon goo has injected zero isk into the system ever.

That is correct. If anything Moon goo requires a certain amount of investment to cause a transfer of wealth from the consumer of the product made to the producer that produces it.

Basic economics LOGIC must a hard concept for some to grasp it seems baltec.

Well its not bloody dangerous if you aren't a tard and/or don't run around with a 13 billion isk officer fit.

I also want to add I'm against any major changes to payouts or difficulty. It seems like every patch has some change that nerfs gameplay for new players. From T2 BPO's, to recent skill changes (which I managed to just squeeze in), to capital large rigs, etc. As a person who has spent the last 3-4 months working to level 4's and plan to do my 2nd this weekend (don't ask about my 1st), it will not be appreciated.

My first level 4 mission, scarlett pirate or whatever it's called, smoked me. If your running faction/t3/etc gear and complaining about it being too easy, that's ridiculous.

It's easy to armchair game design EVE for 5 year vets with loaded bank accounts and ship hangers. Asking that newer players have much more difficult grind to get where you are is shameful really.

You win this thread. As a month old newb all these "missions are too easy" posts turn my stomach. Repetitive and boring? Absolutely. Corp/faction/agent standing is confusing and seems unnecessary. But easy? No sir. They're not even good money. My trade character does far better.

Its as dangerous as losing your connection or aggroing the entire room.

Also I've heard of people losing their light drones and have their battleship being killed by scram frigs.

Nice trolling attempt, come back with real numbers from a standing point of view considering normal average time spent playing per day how many days per week etc.

Until then all you've put there is a random number and a huge fake one anyone around doing missions 1 or 2 hours a day a couple days in the week will laugh at you and tell you to get a real life job instead.



They don't, if you think it pays out too much because you have nothing else to do of your life time just stop doing them and do something more creative and interesting for your self culture.

Once you'll start playing 1h or 2 two or 3 times a week come back and tell me again mission pay out far too much.

Hard trolling is hard but you're doing well, I've even answered.