The keres needs to be able to use 5 drones with a 25M2 drone bay max. For the rest the changes seem ok to me

The keres needs to be able to use 5 drones with a 25M2 drone bay max. For the rest the changes seem ok to me

[quote=Major Killz]Kagura Nikon

Slower than a cruiser would make them USELES.

The infinite lockdown already exists.. a current keres can already hold a BC forever. How many times you seen that happen?

Slower than a cruiser would make them USELES.

The infinite lockdown already exists.. a current keres can already hold a BC forever. How many times you seen that happen?

I'm not sure if you're agreeing by attempting to repeat what I was stating or trying to refute whatever.

To be clear. Tracking Disruptors and Sensor Dampeners are effective irrespective of bonuses. Which is and has been a problem for awhile now. I'm also against what I see as "OVERLAP". A ship or classes of ships doing the EXACT SAME THING.

As far as the Velocity of a support ship being low relative to cruisers. What of it? That's what fitting overdrive and nanofibers is for. I have in fact used the Keres and Sentinel. One in fleets and the other solo. So yeah I'm fairly sure I can hold certain ships indefinitely or remove their ability to project damage significantly.

I WANT DAMPERS AND TRACKING DISRUPTORS NERFED HARD. I'm not in favor of putting another ship or class of ship out there to abuse said mechanics.

Anyway.

There have been suggestions a Keres or Sentinel would explode if 1 single battleship. Clearly that's not the case. Things will be an issue in scaled engagements with multiple opponents but recons have that same issue. Especially if they're not supported by logistics.

Some other dude suggested high signature was the reason he didn't use a electronic attack frigate. So I'm assuming you'd like an interceptor/assault like bonus to electronic attack frigates? So why fly an interceptor tat that point? For what immunity to warp disruption bubbles? In an actual engagements I'd rather have the long warp disruptor (36,000m) and offensive electronic warfare (remote sensor dampeners). It would literally do a lot more for the fleet than an interceptor would.

Also in scaled engagements there tend to be support ships. Loki's, Proteus, Rapiers and or Arazu's. Interceptors tend to explode a lot in scaled engagements PERIOD. Even though they have low signatures. It's hard to reduce incoming damage from multiple directions. Some ships are going to hit you.

So, the point is ALL FRIGATES HAVE ISSUES IN SCALED ENGAGEMENTS WITH REGARD TO SURVIVABILITY IRReSPECTIVE OF BONUSES TO SHIP SIGNATURE.


Anyway. I've already said what I wanted to say and I'm just repeating myself. Moving on and I'll just continue to read other players opinions in this thread.

My point on the current situation is that doomsayers, calling that keres will be able to shutdown all form of solo pvp are wrong, because they would already have this capability agaisnt most ships as of TODAY, yet their usage is rare.

@CCP Rise how much do i have to pay you to slip fixing the Curse/Pilgrim in with these fine ships (as they are the only Recons that really need help at all - the others function fairly well)

While this is completely true and I agree with it, there is one fact to remember. When a shipclass gets buffed, ppl tend to start to fly them a LOT more, therefore a sight of keres / any other EAF will increase dramatically after the rubicon patch. Therefore the problems they bring, will increase a lot :)

My point on the current situation is that doomsayers, calling that keres will be able to shutdown all form of solo pvp are wrong, because they would already have this capability agaisnt most ships as of TODAY, yet their usage is rare.

This is only because...

- Ewar cruisers are MUCH more survivable (won't instapop to a fast sniper or die in mere seconds to interceptors or drones).
- faster ships (like the Condor or Interceptors) can use Ewar about 70 to 80% as effectively as a dedicated Ewar ship (exception; Griffin, Kitsune, Sentinel) and can deal non-insignificant amounts of damage relative to Ewar frigs.


Also take into account that snake implant sets and skirmish links can drastically increase the engagement envelope of these ships. Dual TD or Damp Condors with 30km point ranges and 4000 m/sec speeds are already rife in low-sec.

If people want to see more Ewar frigates...
- nerf Ewar across the board (so it's more attractive to use the "right ship for the right job").
- buff the bonuses of Ewar ships (making them as good as they are now).
- remove the DPS abilities of Ewar frigates (they are specialist ships, right? And you want to encourage them to work with others).
- now increase their speed.

This I can live with.

Just what eve needs, more overpowered long range ewar ships.

Anyone who thinks this change is a good idea didn't play eve 3-4 years ago.

gulp ... sentinel ... gulp .... isnt that a bit op?

keres looks a bit down with its drone bay ... should have same as t1

Because they haven't rebalanced the Recons yet. If this is any indication, the Recons will be even meaner.

Really CCP ??


SENTINEL
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20 / 60



KERES
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 10


No seriously , do you remeber which faction rely on drones ?

I'd like to know this as well. Which one is relying on drones here? The one with no highslot EWar that it has to worry about and 2 free and open turret/high slots, or the one that has bonuses to the only highslot EWar in game and has to put that in its highslots (in order to actually use its bonuses), not allowing much space for actual guns?

I understand the "Gallente is the drone race" idea, but in this case it's just that much more necessary for one to have drones, where the other can get away without it.

well in this case sentinel is massively op

even now if he hits your frig you are out of cap ... permanently, after the buff I am crosstraining to amarr.

As said it will lead in fw to fact, that i will be either in novice plex or in sentinel in other type of plexes ... this sentinel can actually outcap cruiser in decent speed. Also in frig/frig combat only missile boats can hurt him ...or maybe some buffer fit drone boats, but even them cannot hold him if he is loosing the fight. So we have very small pack of ships which can actually counter this thing, and even them are having troubles. So the way will be to pile on sentinel and hope.

Well to be honest, I've been preaching this too. 30km neuts dropping a frigs cap to 0 in 4 neut cycles (for a 2 neut Sentinel, that's 6 seconds) while also having the ability to completely shut down an opponent's weapons *and* do decent DPS thanks to the flight of drones? I'm both looking forward to and not looking forward to this patch.

Not that the Keres is any better. It has 2 highs that can be put to guns, and it can scram any frigate at 18km and damp almost any frigate to under 10 (or even 5)km locking range and freely murder it over time.

in reality you usually entering combat in 60% of cap, so it means you will be dead in the water in 4 sec.

tbh, I am surprised at all the actual EWAR range (read optimal) bonuses being given out. Most of them didn't actually need the EWAR range bonus (Hyena excepted), just locking range. I would have been happy with that.

And Sentinel with 25km neuts? That might need some tweaking.

We should all swarm sisi on the 7th to test the crap out of these and see how well they do.