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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
Major Killz La Fraternite 253	Posted - 2013.10.10 20:47:00 - [391] - Quote I suppose a that's along the lines of what they should look like Harvey James. However, I'm not sure they should have resistance bonuses but bonuses to shield, armor and or hull amount would be ok v0v Harder to abuse them that way. - Killz Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013)
dexter xio TURN LEFT 12	Posted - 2013.10.10 21:09:00 - [392] - Quote These are incredibly OP, like seriously, reduce their bonuses. Dexter xio - That cool guy
paritybit Repo. 268	Posted - 2013.10.10 22:37:00 - [393] - Quote I am happy with the way the bonuses are laid out in the original post. I don't much care about the Kitsune, because it never needed to be close to its target anyway, but in order to apply webs, warp scramblers and neutralizers, the other ships need to be at a relatively close range even with their old bonuses. They need that extra range because they have a minimal tank and relatively large signature radius. Even with the minor buffs to their signature radius, it's not enough to put them on par with other frigates with regard to damage mitigation. If anything, they should have smaller signatures because they are "electronically hardened". If the proposal changes such that the bonuses are lower again, then it should similarly decrease the signatures more and give them resist profiles consistent with the combat recons which they desperately need. This, combined with their slight hull/armor/shield buffs will help their ability to tank and keep them from instantly dying in any fight that isn't completely one-sided. They don't have covert ops cloaks (and they shouldn't), so there is no reason to treat them like force recons. The reason they were never flown* is because even in very small skirmishes they were likely to die very quickly. Either the range bonus (with the exception of the Kitsune which could already be decently far away) or a buff to their tank will counter this problem. I specifically exclude the Kitsune from my discussion because previously with imperfect skills it had an optimal of about 60 with T2 jammers, which is more than any frigate needs. Rather than a range bonus, it probably needs some secondary form of offensive electronic warfare (like, but not equal to the web, warp scrambler and energy neutralizer) to make it want to be at a more reasonable range. Shield dischordance generator (penalty to shield resistances)? Nanite disruption field (penalty to armor resistances)? Electronic systems disruption (other offensive electronic warfare is stronger on the affected ship)? Of course I generally come at most problems from a very-small-gang point of view. But this is where I think EAFs are useful. * And their lack in popularity is exactly why they are so expensive, by the way -- since fewer are flown, there is less demand, and less demand means fewer people want to produce because bulk production is easier, and then with fewer suppliers the cost is driven up. I suspect CCP knows this, but others complaining about the relative performance for the price point should take note.

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 3001	Posted - 2013.10.11 11:20:00 - [394] - Quote Okay I've updated the OP with the newest iteration. Highlights include: Bonuses adjusted for Kitsune, Keres and Hyena to shorten the range slightly for each Mass increased for all four by 10% Lowered lock range to match t1 disruption frigs Lowered signature radius for all four Small adjustments to maxvelocity for some and drone bandwidth tweaks for Sentinel and Keres Two main things going on. First, lowering the ewar ranges should draw them in a bit closer to the fight. The Kitsune will still be the longest effective range EAF but that's natural to ECM and there's not much more we can do. It was limited before only by the absurdly low lock range and while I don't want it to be out at 100k being effective, there's also no sensible way to pull it closer than this, but I think that's fine. Second, adding mass and making some maxvelocity changes while also lowering their sig radius should make them easier to catch for frigs and other anti-support, while also increasing their survivability vs larger targets trying to shoot them from far away. This helps push them towards a more recon-ish play style and further from interceptors, which is what we want. I expect that those of you hoping to use these will be a little disappointed, while those of expecting to fight against them might not think this is enough. Hopefully that means we are fairly close to a good spot for them. Regardless, please let me know what you think.

Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 686	Posted - 2013.10.11 11:43:00 - [395] - Quote Good changes, but no PG nerf? You can still fit oversized ab with mse AND MASB on hyena, triple mse on keres, etc.
Capqu Love Squad 345	Posted - 2013.10.11 11:46:00 - [396] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Okay I've updated the OP with the newest iteration. Highlights include: Bonuses adjusted for Kitsune, Keres and Hyena to shorten the range slightly for each Mass increased for all four by 10% Lowered lock range to match t1 disruption frigs Lowered signature radius for all four Small adjustments to maxvelocity for some and drone bandwidth tweaks for Sentinel and Keres Two main things going on. First, lowering the ewar ranges should draw them in a bit closer to the fight. The Kitsune will still be the longest effective range EAF but that's natural to ECM and there's not much more we can do. It was limited before only by the absurdly low lock range and while I don't want it to be out at 100k being effective, there's also no sensible way to pull it closer than this, but I think that's fine. Second, adding mass and making some maxvelocity changes while also lowering their sig radius should make them easier to catch for frigs and other anti-support, while also increasing their survivability vs larger targets trying to shoot them from far away. This helps push them towards a more recon-ish play style and further from interceptors, which is what we want. I expect that those of you hoping to use these will be a little disappointed, while those of expecting to fight against them might not think this is enough. Hopefully that means we are fairly close to a good spot for them. Regardless, please let me know what you think. rise if you could take some of that lockrange you just shaved off and give it to fozzie i think he needs it for something seriously though, good changes. the mass and max velocity in particular i think are in a much better place now, having eafs with huge range + huge speed would have been a big issue http://pizza.eve-kill.net
Zarnak Wulf In Exile. Imperial Outlaws. 1379	Posted - 2013.10.11 11:58:00 - [397] - Quote Without Links or overheating or faction/deadspace stupidity - 30km webs on Hyena. 33.15m sig radius at level 5. That is very acceptable. The Keres can send a Warp Disrputor out to 42km. That is important as at 36km there was not a huge difference between it and a fleet interceptor. Slightly more point range at the cost of speed and survivability and being 2-3x more expensive didn't cut it. Again, acceptable. The Kitsune could use a little more ECM strength per level to pull it closer to the Falcon/Rook and differentiate it a bit more from the Griffin/Blackbird. The Sentintel still has the long neuts. Expect crying.
Marian Devers Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities 25	Posted - 2013.10.11 13:20:00 - [398] - Quote CCP #1: How can we make Ewar Frigates useful? CCP #2: Well, people sometimes fly a Sentinel in solo pvp. Maybe we can decrease the drone bandwidth and make it useless for that? CCP #1: Good call. If we remove the option for solo, people will be FORCED to fly them in fleets.
Davader Space Cleaners The Gorgon Empire 42	Posted - 2013.10.11 13:27:00 - [399] - Quote SENTINEL Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(-5) / 60 Uh, What? Are you kidding? Sentinel was the only EAS, which was able to do some solo pvp, and it always lacked dps. And now you make its dps even lesser by removing one drone from available to launch? What's going on? Sentinel has to get additional drones (up to 5 small drones simultaneously), that would make it more usable in small scape pvp, solo raids, fractional warfare, etc. I really hope the guy who decided to reduce Sentinel's bandwidth will change his mind anyway.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 802	Posted - 2013.10.11 13:56:00 - [400] - Quote Much better. Looks insane to have the (-12m) in signature and still seeing numbers in the forties though .. 2/3rds the sig of the destroyers is much more palatable than 3/4. Davader wrote: ...What's going on?... With all the options available in frigs, combat/tackle/logistic/interceptors/covops/etc. is it really that bad to have the eWar Support frigate lean towards actual eWar Support rather than being able to do all sorts of things poorly? You said it yourself, it could solo but had bad damage .. you now get much more range, better tank and the blessing of not dying in five seconds when riding with and into larger gangs .. at the low, low cost of 25% dps. Would personally prefer them to be all but toothless and be all that they can be support wise than the hybrid thing CCP is intent on trying to make work .. makes more sense to me that you have the 1 x eWar T1 frigate, 2 x eWar T2 frigate and 2 x eWar + DPS T2 cruiser, would make for a nice and tidy progression that follows the intended scale of the engagements where they are most comfortable.

Vrat Briner Steel Lion Inc 0	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:04:00 - [401] - Quote Quote: you now get much more range, better tank and the blessing of not dying in five seconds when riding with and into larger gangs All these frigs were useless in large gangs. And still useless even after these changes. Now the only ewar frig that could solo will be nerfed to the ground. Good job.
Dex Slim Phrike Squadron 11	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:05:00 - [402] - Quote Seems like reasonable changes overall. However, when the Sentinel is concerned I am a little bit dissapointed. I suppose there has to be some trade-off for the ship to be viable in fleet warfare and not overpowered in 1vs1 situations, or the other way around. But with the newest iteration the ship is obviously meant to have a role in fleets primarily and I am a little sad to see that the only viable solo EAS is becoming less usable in that role. Rather nerf the neuting bonus from 80% (which is 31,5km at level V), to 60% (25,2km) or 50% (22,05km), keep the changes concerning mass (to make it easier to catch) and sig radius but don't touch the bandwidth. This can hopefully make the ship viable in both fleets and solo pvp without it being overpowered in any role.
Krista Amelana Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:15:00 - [403] - Quote Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(-5) / 60 solo Sentinel RIP
Dex Slim Phrike Squadron 11	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:20:00 - [404] - Quote Delete post, I really have trouble distinguishing between quote and edit :)
Alchmist II EFT warrior. 0	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:22:00 - [405] - Quote Sentinel... You killed single electronic frigate on which it was possible to kill alone
Bienator II madmen of the skies 2079	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:24:00 - [406] - Quote With three drones the sentinel is pretty much useless for my playstyle. But it wouldn't be a challange to solo with this ship anymore, given those neut ranges. Its probably better to nerf it to the ground like you did. On the other hand, you could just kept the TQ version and increased lockrange without the nerf. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
Omg Ololo POD Based Lifeforms DarkSide. 16	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:31:00 - [407] - Quote RIP Sentinel.
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:32:00 - [408] - Quote The T1 Cruiser split of two pure ewar, two ewar/combat hybrids was such a good idea, these could have been so much fun and more importantly properly viable outside of niches. I swear to god there's no proper vision for any of the T2 lines. Travelling at the speed of love.
dei'ro Broski North Black Legion. 28	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:36:00 - [409] - Quote Back to obscurity you go, poor EAS's
Akturous Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 228	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:55:00 - [410] - Quote Fantastic, now the sentinel only gets 3 drones, I always thought 4 un-bonused drones was too much. So now the only EAF capable of doing some attacking has 1/4 of it's damage taken away, JUST WHAT I ALWAYS HOPED FOR! How about some attack and less electronic? My drunken EAF V training is looking worse and worse. No covert ops cloaks, no nifty features, just a smaller combat recons that are next to useless at doing any combating/attacking, leaving their only role as support, during which they will get blapped because they have no hit points, so they're back to being overpriced and useless. Can we have a drunken sp reinbursement please? Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

Bienator II madmen of the skies 2079	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:02:00 - [411] - Quote what makes me sad is that a ship which once required skill to fly like the sentinel will probably end up as better griffin driven by multiboxed alts and only used after the bait caught something. But at least i had my fun while it lasted. trading 10km neutrange for hobgoblin. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
Domanique Altares Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 1785	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:18:00 - [412] - Quote Bienator II wrote: With three drones the sentinel is pretty much useless for my playstyle. But it wouldn't be a challange to solo with this ship anymore, given those neut ranges. Its probably better to nerf it to the ground like you did. On the other hand, you could just kept the TQ version and increased lockrange without the nerf. Well, you know, it's easy for the devs to hold current meta down and ** in its mouth when they don't use the ships in question. Rise is probably under the impression that you use turrets to make the Sentinel work. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters** to speak to a recruiter.
Milton Middleson Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 359	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:18:00 - [413] - Quote Because clearly these ships were just too fast and tough. :facepalm: They were already going to have a very rough time with kiting cruisers, and now it's even worse. If you're going to cut down the effectiveness/range of their e-war, and make them slower besides, you really need to give them more tank. You should also probably not be cutting into their firepower.
Domanique Altares Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 1785	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:24:00 - [414] - Quote Milton Middleson wrote: Because clearly these ships were just too fast and tough. :facepalm: They were already going to have a very rough time with kiting cruisers, and now it's even worse. If you're going to cut down the effectiveness/range of their e-war, and make them slower besides, you really need to give them more tank. You should also probably not be cutting into their firepower. But Milton, you're totally discounting how fast they go when you run a snake set, skirmish links, Zor's and Quafe Zero. You do run all these things, right? Bro, do you even PvP? Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter.
Destoya Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 172	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:34:00 - [415] - Quote Please dont remove drones from the Curse, whatever you do. Everything doesnt have to conform to the "Recon ship playstyle", just like the Scorpion doesnt have to be a normal DPS battleship like all the others. (I'd also extend this to the Sentinel and its 4th drone, but I value the neuts and TD's more on it so it doesnt bother me as much as the idea of a nerfed curse.)
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 579	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:42:00 - [416] - Quote CCP never makes a specialized ship to be GOOD solo. At most viable. The best you can expect is a ship that paired with another one might be GOOD. Or you can go generalistic ships like the t1 cruisers. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 409	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:45:00 - [417] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: I expect that those of you hoping to use these will be a little disappointed, while those of expecting to fight against them might not think this is enough. Hopefully that means we are fairly close to a good spot for them. Regardless, please let me know what you think. I'm giving this latest iteration 0 points out of 10.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 579	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:48:00 - [418] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: CCP Rise wrote: I expect that those of you hoping to use these will be a little disappointed, while those of expecting to fight against them might not think this is enough. Hopefully that means we are fairly close to a good spot for them. Regardless, please let me know what you think. I'm giving this latest iteration 0 points out of 10. 7 of 10. Altough I think the keres coudl very well have a tiny bit more range on the point. Also target painter range is USELESS!!! Hyena is a ship with 2 bonuse sonly. That is a shame. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Major Killz La Fraternite 253	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:53:00 - [419] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: CCP Rise wrote: I expect that those of you hoping to use these will be a little disappointed, while those of expecting to fight against them might not think this is enough. Hopefully that means we are fairly close to a good spot for them. Regardless, please let me know what you think. I'm giving this latest iteration 0 points out of 10. You what? I'm not sure it's possible for you to be happy. - Killz Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013)
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 409	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:57:00 - [420] - Quote Major Killz wrote: TrouserDeagle wrote: CCP Rise wrote: I expect that those of you hoping to use these will be a little disappointed, while those of expecting to fight against them might not think this is enough. Hopefully that means we are fairly close to a good spot for them. Regardless, please let me know what you think. I'm giving this latest iteration 0 points out of 10. You what? I'm not sure it's possible for you to be happy. The ecm and recon bonuses are still there.



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