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CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 2786	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:56:00 - [1] - Quote Heyo - it's ship balance time again! Sounds like you guys are getting a bunch of this on sisi really soon so we might as well get feedback rolling. We are going to hit you with several threads at once so it may take us a few days to start processing and get back to you. Don't worry though I read it all and you are each special to me so let us know what you think! GOALS Make them more useful Make them sensible in relation to the new t1 disruption frigs Avoid overlap with other classes (interceptors and disruption frigs?) DESIGN HIGHLIGHTS Increased the range bonus from Electronic Attack Ship skill on all four ships significantly Slightly increased base hp Slightly increased maxvelocity Increased lock range significantly Increased cap recharge from 1.33/sec to around 2/sec (this is a big deal) Increasing the range for points/webs/ecm/neuts on these ships should hopefully make them useful enough to show up in lighter/faster fleets that need recon type support but want either faster or cheaper ships doing it. The base stat buffs are to bring them close to where the disruptions frigs are. SPECIFICS SENTINEL Amarr Frigate Bonuses: 20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer amount per level 7.5% bonus to effectiveness of tracking disruptors per level Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 80% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer range per level (+40% per level) 5% reduction in capacitor recharge time per level Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 40 PWG, 195 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300(+25) / 425(+50) / 375(+25) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 415 / 190s (-121s) / 2.18 (+.85) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+10) / 4.25 / 1112000 / 6.55 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20 / 60 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 66km(+30km) / 575 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Radar Signature radius: 48(-5) ============================================================================= KITSUNE Caldari Frigate Bonuses: 20% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level 10% reduction in ECM target jammers' capacitor need per level Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 25% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal range per level (+12.5% per level) 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level Slot layout: 3H, 5M, 2L; 1 turrets, 3 launchers Fittings: 26 PWG, 270 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 450(+50) / 250 / 275(+25) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 415 / 195s (-116s) / 2.12 (+.79) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 315 / 3.86 / 1117000 / 5.98s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 71km(+29km) / 520 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric Signature radius: 55(-3) ============================================================================= KERES Gallente Frigate Bonuses: 7.5% bonus to remote sensor dampener effectiveness per level 10% reduction in remote sensor dampener capacitor need per level Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range per level (+10% per level) 10% reduction in warp disruptor capacitor need per level Slot layout: 2H, 5M, 3L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 33 PWG, 205 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 325 / 400(+50) / 425(+75) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 375 / 187s (-93s) / 2.00 (+.66) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 355(+10) / 4.1 / 1095000 / 6.22s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 10 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 68km(+29km) / 550 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric(-.5) Signature radius: 50(-5) ============================================================================= HYENA Minmatar Frigate Bonuses: 10% bonus to optimal range of target painters per level (was MWD capacitor use) 10% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per level Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 50% bonus to stasis webifier range per level (+30% per level) 3% reduction in signature radius per level Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers Fittings: 36 PWG, 145 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 375(+50) / 375(+25) / 325(+25) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 355 / 175s (-91s) / 2.02 (+.69) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 385(+25) / 3.93 / 1083000 / 5.9s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 66km(+31km) / 600 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Ladar Signature radius: 45(-6)

Mole Guy Xoth Inc 398	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:58:00 - [2] - Quote first are you kidding me? holy crap! i SO cant wait to get back in my EWAR frigs. so, if i get the match right, on a 15km web, thats a 75.9km range? this is alot to take in. these frigs are going to be awesome. more to come..lemme read a 3rd time.
Kaeda Maxwell Calamitous-Intent 202	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:59:00 - [3] - Quote Oh damn, not first. Sig bonus on the Hyena seems minute to me @15% at level 5 you'll still end up being bigger then a bunch of T1 frigates are, seems a bit 'meh'.
khajay v virras vir2all-ccs 2	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:00:00 - [4] - Quote sounds ok to me...
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 1768	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:08:00 - [5] - Quote @CCP Rise how much do i have to pay you to slip fixing the Curse/Pilgrim in with these fine ships (as they are the only Recons that really need help at all - the others function fairly well)
Naomi Anthar 118	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:09:00 - [6] - Quote damn ... so Amarr is not loser on some balance pass. I take it. Edit : Gate camps now 1000% more deadly.
Destoya Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 161	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:10:00 - [7] - Quote Dat range
Scatha Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 3	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:13:00 - [8] - Quote Love the sentinel change.
Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 287	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:14:00 - [9] - Quote Let me get this straight. The Sentinel gets 4 drones and 2 guns and the Keres gets 1 drone and 2 guns. You made a mistake on one of these ships. How about 5 drones on the Keres?
Naomi Anthar 118	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:17:00 - [10] - Quote Marcel Devereux wrote: Let me get this straight. The Sentinel gets 4 drones and 2 guns and the Keres gets 1 drone and 2 guns. You made a mistake on one of these ships. How about 5 drones on the Keres? How about no ? For your info ... Sentinel got 0 guns in fact ... show me single person that will put gun on sentinel. It's only weapons are drones.

Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 287	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:21:00 - [11] - Quote Naomi Anthar wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: Let me get this straight. The Sentinel gets 4 drones and 2 guns and the Keres gets 1 drone and 2 guns. You made a mistake on one of these ships. How about 5 drones on the Keres? How about no ? For your info ... Sentinel got 0 guns in fact ... show me single person that will put gun on sentinel. It's only weapons are drones. Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers That looks like 2 guns to me. For solo, two guns and a neut would work pretty well. Hell a swarm of them in this configuration would be deadly.
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 877	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:22:00 - [12] - Quote Mole Guy wrote: first are you kidding me? holy crap! i SO cant wait to get back in my EWAR frigs. so, if i get the match right, on a 15km web, thats a 75.9km range? It's 52.5 km before links and overload. Or 35 km with a normal web.
BadAssMcKill Love Squad 377	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:23:00 - [13] - Quote Yeah agreed with Marcel http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á
Destoya Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 161	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:24:00 - [14] - Quote Marcel Devereux wrote: That looks like 2 guns to me. For solo, two guns and a neut would work pretty well. Hell a swarm of them in this configuration would be deadly. Dunking any hardeners (including DCU), reppers, EW modules, and propulsion modules is a much much stronger tactic than going in and doing an extra 20 DPS from your unbonused autocannons. Stay at 20km now that you have the neut range to do that as there is absolutely no chance the guy can chase you down and kill you
Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 287	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:24:00 - [15] - Quote Naomi Anthar wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: Let me get this straight. The Sentinel gets 4 drones and 2 guns and the Keres gets 1 drone and 2 guns. You made a mistake on one of these ships. How about 5 drones on the Keres? How about no ? For your info ... Sentinel got 0 guns in fact ... show me single person that will put gun on sentinel. It's only weapons are drones. And if drones are the main weapon system, then the Sentinel needs a slot removed like the other drone boats.
Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 287	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:26:00 - [16] - Quote Destoya wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: That looks like 2 guns to me. For solo, two guns and a neut would work pretty well. Hell a swarm of them in this configuration would be deadly. Dunking any hardeners (including DCU), reppers, EW modules, and propulsion modules is a much much stronger tactic than going in and doing an extra 20 DPS from your unbonused autocannons. Stay at 20km now that you have the neut range to do that as there is absolutely no chance the guy can chase you down and kill you So the guns are irrelevant on the Sentinel. They would be on the Keres as well then as there is no damage bonus. Why doesn't it get more than one drone?
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 531	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:29:00 - [17] - Quote What make sme most happy is that there is very few thigns left before rise can start thinking about how to make the Huggin into something that is not a random abortion of mixed things all over the place.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 1768	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:29:00 - [18] - Quote Marcel Devereux wrote: Destoya wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: That looks like 2 guns to me. For solo, two guns and a neut would work pretty well. Hell a swarm of them in this configuration would be deadly. Dunking any hardeners (including DCU), reppers, EW modules, and propulsion modules is a much much stronger tactic than going in and doing an extra 20 DPS from your unbonused autocannons. Stay at 20km now that you have the neut range to do that as there is absolutely no chance the guy can chase you down and kill you So the guns are irrelevant on the Sentinel. They would be on the Keres as well then as there is no damage bonus. Why doesn't it get more than one drone? I heard its been done specifically to bother you personally, but who knows.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 531	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:30:00 - [19] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: @CCP Rise how much do i have to pay you to slip fixing the Curse/Pilgrim in with these fine ships (as they are the only Recons that really need help at all - the others function fairly well) Nope the huggin is all wrong with the mixing of weapon systems. Need to be bellicosed a bit (made in to full missile boat)
Naomi Anthar 118	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:34:00 - [20] - Quote Marcel Devereux wrote: Naomi Anthar wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: Let me get this straight. The Sentinel gets 4 drones and 2 guns and the Keres gets 1 drone and 2 guns. You made a mistake on one of these ships. How about 5 drones on the Keres? How about no ? For your info ... Sentinel got 0 guns in fact ... show me single person that will put gun on sentinel. It's only weapons are drones. And if drones are the main weapon system, then the Sentinel needs a slot removed like the other drone boats. No its only when you get drone bonus (tristan tracking/hp , vexor damage/hp). And hell no again. I'm happy for once one balance pass is not straightforward gallente win. Thanks CCP.

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 372	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:37:00 - [21] - Quote More overpowered kiting ships. As if FW pvp wasn't terrible enough already.
Zarnak Wulf In Exile. Imperial Outlaws. 1354	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:47:00 - [22] - Quote When you get past the giddiness of the range increase (which is appreciated) several things still jump out: Kitsune still has two bonuses dedicated to cap use. And I was greatly amused that it's sig radius was lessened JUST enough to be under a Thrasher's 56m sig radius. Keres also still has two bonuses dedicated to cap use. Yaaaawn. The Hyena still has that 3% sig radius reduction bonus. Why??? I remember when interceptors used to have a 5% sig radius reduction bonus before the great nano nerf of 2009. It was changed to the current MWD sig penalty reduction bonus because testing on SISSI showed the sig reduction bonus wholly inadequate. Only the Hyena still has to suffer with this throwback and I'm perplexed as to why. The Hyena will have to operate in the 20km - 30km range ala overheated point. Many normal frigates in this range will get shredded by medium weaponry. They Hyena does not get TD or SD as the sentinel and keres do. I really think you should consider giving the damn thing the Talwar/Interceptor MWD penalty reduction bonus. With only four mids you really can't shield tank the Hyena without cutting into it's ewar. It's slower then interceptors already before you consider armor tanking the thing. That should be enough of a difference between Minmatar interceptors and the Hyena. I'd really like to see it possible to use the Hyena without mandatory links to keep it alive.
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 372	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:49:00 - [23] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: I remember when interceptors used to have a 5% sig radius reduction bonus before the great nano nerf of 2009 I remember that. My zealot could hit orbiting crows, no tracking mods or anything. So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 532	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:50:00 - [24] - Quote base sig bonus is better than MWD one. Because allows me to use AB that with a long range web is VEEERY good. Hyena is great now. Keres and kitsune have cap bonuses because their ewar uses alot of cap and their ewar is FAR more pwoerful because they can cancel ANY ship type, contrary to neuts that do not harm minmatar much and to webs that are almos tirrelevant for caldari.
Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 287	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:52:00 - [25] - Quote Naomi Anthar wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: Naomi Anthar wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: Let me get this straight. The Sentinel gets 4 drones and 2 guns and the Keres gets 1 drone and 2 guns. You made a mistake on one of these ships. How about 5 drones on the Keres? How about no ? For your info ... Sentinel got 0 guns in fact ... show me single person that will put gun on sentinel. It's only weapons are drones. And if drones are the main weapon system, then the Sentinel needs a slot removed like the other drone boats. No its only when you get drone bonus (tristan tracking/hp , vexor damage/hp). And hell no again. I'm happy for once one balance pass is not straightforward gallente win. Thanks CCP. So as long as Amarr is being balanced we shouldn't balance anything else? Sounds like a solid balance pass to me. Ship it.
Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 287	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:54:00 - [26] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: Destoya wrote: Marcel Devereux wrote: That looks like 2 guns to me. For solo, two guns and a neut would work pretty well. Hell a swarm of them in this configuration would be deadly. Dunking any hardeners (including DCU), reppers, EW modules, and propulsion modules is a much much stronger tactic than going in and doing an extra 20 DPS from your unbonused autocannons. Stay at 20km now that you have the neut range to do that as there is absolutely no chance the guy can chase you down and kill you So the guns are irrelevant on the Sentinel. They would be on the Keres as well then as there is no damage bonus. Why doesn't it get more than one drone? I heard its been done specifically to bother you personally, but who knows. Well it is Rise doing the balance pass. He is probably getting back at me for trolling him ;-)
Zarnak Wulf In Exile. Imperial Outlaws. 1354	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:02:00 - [27] - Quote The range on that Kitsune is scary too. 117 km optimal range on jammers (?) Wow.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 2058	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:07:00 - [28] - Quote sentinel (solo) pilot here. Increased lockrange is AWESOME and always was my main complain about the ship. More hp/speed/cap recharge is all nice to have - i don't say no but it isn't gamechaning. Thanks for all of those tweaks! The neut range however throws it totally out of balance. A year ago sentinel was a ship which required some piloting skill so you can fly it. One mistake and you where dead. (very similar to a slicer in this regard.. just less agile and slower). But now since you can fitt AARs on it you can just get out of scram range again and again. Piloting mistakes don't matter much anymore, its a very forgivable and safe ship. Every local tank buff helped the sentinel, since it buffed the sentinel without buffing the opponent (... neuts). Drone boats or even condors or dragoons where a huge problem for a sentinel pilot a year ago.. but they are no longer a big issue. This being said, the sentinel already is a very good ship even without the buff. Please don't give it neut range it just makes it ridiculous overpowered in my opinion. If you still like to buff it give it bandwidth for another drone or something like that. - - - HOWEVER if you compare it to broken mechanics like ECM you could still say its a necessary buff. If a griffin can silent your ship from 70k away why shouldn't you be able to neut at least half the range? But i always saw ECM as broken mechanic and therefore never hoped that other ewar would be adjusted to be in line with it. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 652	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:08:00 - [29] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar. This
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 533	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:12:00 - [30] - Quote Michael Harari wrote: TrouserDeagle wrote: So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar. This Durign years we asked for better support for solo or pairs PVP and now you complain that we get it?



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