I feel that the sentinel in particular needs either a 4th highslot or a greater bonus to neuting. The current neut amount just isn't worth it to be good for anything against larger things which makes it practically very limited outside of FW. Additionally why not swap the cap recharge bonus for a optimal range bonus to td's when both the kitsune and the hyena both have range bonuses, and then just make the capacitor naturally bigger/recharge more.

I feel that the sentinel in particular needs either a 4th highslot or a greater bonus to neuting. The current neut amount just isn't worth it to be good for anything against larger things which makes it practically very limited outside of FW. Additionally why not swap the cap recharge bonus for a optimal range bonus to td's when both the kitsune and the hyena both have range bonuses, and then just make the capacitor naturally bigger/recharge more.

The Keres needs both a higher bandwidth and larger drone bay...

KERES
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30

otherwise nice changes

As if recons aren't OP enough

got to say i am having loads of fun on the test server with the keres.

Do you realize you can fit 20k ehp on these things in a fleet fit OR fit it for sig and have it abing around at 5k/s with a 20m sig WITH 6k ehp AND an MASB? (Warrior II drone has a 25m sig).

That looks more like a link thing than anything else...

Its a fitting thing. You should not be able to fit triple MSE to a keres with any number of fitting mods, but it fits quite easily. Same with 10mn ab + mse + masb (all on the same fit) hyena

The webbing people at 85km while mwding at 10k/s yeah, thats a link+snake thing.

Hey guys

Thanks for the feedback.

So far I'm noticing two major threads

wtf are you thinking these are insanely strong (especially in FW frig 1v1 type environments)

wtf why didn't you reduce the sig or increase the hp/speed to make them more survivable

This seems pretty okay I think. I agree that some of them will make really OP 1v1 ships, but they will probably suffer from the same problems that ships like the dragoon already do - no one will want to fight you. When you move them out of the 1v1 environment and into small groups I think they seem like they will be alright because as the second group says, their survivability still isn't amazing.

I wouldn't feel comfortable adding drones to the Keres, and it's tempting to remove some from the Sentinel to de-emphasize their role as duelers and push them more towards support. Probably won't do that, but I would prefer that option to adding more dps to the others.

I'll keep watching the discussion and will also pay really close attention to their use after release and adjust as needed.

Hopefully they're just really fun

EDIT: Actually, did you just use "Its overpowered so noone will fight it" As an arguement for the balance being ok? O.o

He did.

EDIT: Actually, did you just use "Its overpowered so noone will fight it" As an arguement for the balance being ok? O.o

No, he used the "Balance for solo is not the same as balance for small groups, and we're balancing for small groups" argument. Which is the same one they've always used.

Uhm, no.

They are also overpowered for small groups.

And making a ship that works well in a fleet at the cost of being overpowered in other situations is not a very good design.

A few ships are already like this. For one, the current sentinel...as well as the Dragoon and the Curse. It's pretty hard for a dedicated neuting ship not to be OP in 1v1.

I'm saying that the power level on these was devastatingly bad before, to the point that they were almost never used. It's very normal for e-war focused ships in EVE to be extremely dominant in certain situations while being abysmal in others. I think these look like they are threading the line fairly well.

My point about them being too strong to engage 1v1 is that at this scale you have a lot of control over your engagements and that leaves some room for them to be powerful considering that as you scale up they quickly get weaker.

If it turns out that people aren't able to react for some reason and low sec is just swarms of solo Keres pilots we would definitely make some changes, but I don't think that will be the case.