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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
801
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 14:40:00 -
[361] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:On the case of the sentinel in specific removing high slots nerf their ewar.. so that is a bit mor complicated than in the other frigates. Moving a high-slot to the low rack would actually help it as the lowslots allow for speed, damage, cap, tank, whatever .. while minimizing the impact its secondary eWar (neuts) can have on larger ship classes, remember that each small neut acts as if it was a 30km medium neut which is utterly insane if you think about it (we had the Hurricane nerfed for fielding two vanilla range medium neuts after all ).
Plus the inability to fit three neuts makes the curious recharge bonus redundant which in turn opens the door for the inevitable (and needed) hard-as-Chuck-Norris nerf to TD's with the Sentinel getting the Inquisitor range bonus in place of the recharge bonus with TD being re-fashioned to mimic ECM with weak modules and strong ship bonuses (same treatment for damps when people get fed up with the new Keres pissing in their cereal every day ).
Double whammy is that a slot move differentiates it from the Hyena in that regard, making it more Amarr as it were.
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help Don't go overboard with pre-nerf though. It was a good idea to add powerful frigate eWar platforms, problem arise when the same ships can bite/nipple an enemy at the same time.
Try with half the additional bonus and see where it lands, after that consider defanging everything and going full-on in your face eWar ownage |
Major Killz
La Fraternite
253
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 14:44:00 -
[362] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help
GF - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
407
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:18:00 -
[363] - Quote
Guessing this means the bonuses will be scaled back a few %, rather than anything substantial. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
619
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:26:00 -
[364] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help
Well I didn't found them usefull in their current "overpowered" state anyway, and wasn't planning on using them, so I guess it can't be worse.
What do people find so imbalanced here is beyond my understanding. It's not like the "rebalance" was changing a lot of things for them, and it's not like they were overused before... G££ <= Me |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2066
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:30:00 -
[365] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help whatever you do, don't touch sentinels bandwidth please eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5187
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 16:07:00 -
[366] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
567
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 16:21:00 -
[367] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability.
that is more of a statement that titans need to be massively nerfed than anythign else :P
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Thabink
PonyWaffe Insidious Empire
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 16:37:00 -
[368] - Quote
An idea for differentiating the Kitsune: An anti-EWAR EWAR platform. Give it basically the same jamming stats as a Blackbird, but give it collosal defence against enemy EWAR, either with really high sensor strength, lock range and scan res, or by giving it explicit immunity to sensor damps, ECM and TPs. This would make it roughly the same strength as T1 ewar ships at jamming enemies (maybe slightly more, but not too much), addressing concerns about more powerful ECM ships, but would give it a unique role shutting down enemy EWAR on field, while being immune to them itself. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
206
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 17:22:00 -
[369] - Quote
Thabink wrote:An idea for differentiating the Kitsune: An anti-EWAR EWAR platform. Give it basically the same jamming stats as a Blackbird, but give it collosal defence against enemy EWAR, either with really high sensor strength, lock range and scan res, or by giving it explicit immunity to sensor damps, ECM and TPs. This would make it roughly the same strength as T1 ewar ships at jamming enemies (maybe slightly more, but not too much), addressing concerns about more powerful ECM ships, but would give it a unique role shutting down enemy EWAR on field, while being immune to them itself. wtf italicized the kernel of rotten corn in the **** that is your post.
"I want my favorite ewar ship to be immune to other ewar ships" HAHAHAHAHAHAHa, OMG I'm gonna **** myself with laughter. What kind of a baby are you? |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
667
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 17:26:00 -
[370] - Quote
Their signatures are all too big. The primary reason that I don't fly EAFs on TQ already is that their awful combination of frigate-sized tanks and giant signature radii (also their terrible slot layouts, with midslot-heavy roles that leave them with too few mids for a shield tank and no lows for a proper armor tank either).
Interdictors have the exact same problem: the only reason dictors get flown because gangs are totally dysfunctional without them. |
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Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 17:30:00 -
[371] - Quote
Rise, just do what you think is right, don't let these nerds get to you. Confederation of xXPIZZAXx CEO Watch PIZZA Videos NYC Bi-Monthly Meetup |
Capqu
Love Squad
344
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 17:33:00 -
[372] - Quote
http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
573
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:48:00 -
[373] - Quote
Junko Sideswipe wrote:Rise, just do what you think is right, don't let these nerds get to you.
If that happened all time we would have eneded with a tempest slower than amarr battleships and with sig radius larger than maesltrom. Luckly the nerds made him change his mind.
Peopel fail to realize a lot of the merit on the ship changes are shared between the developers and the people that bring up consistent argument at the forums on why the changes are good or not. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1507
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 19:06:00 -
[374] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help
Quite sure this isn't a competition :P
Also inb4 45% web range instead of 50 :P
Also don't sound so bitter! :P
See what you made me do... you made me use three emotes in one post, thats unheard of /o\
Weaselior wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability.
They are already getting a significant buff through the warp speed changes. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
358
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 19:55:00 -
[375] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help
That's kind of disappointing, since there really aren't many dimensions along which you can tone them down without making them unusable again. They have very poor survivability already, so you can't really cut into that. They need the T2 ewar range in order to operate at a range where they won't instantly die the moment someone decides they want to get rid of them. Making them slower is just a different cut into their bad survivability.
The small, vocal minority doesn't want EAFs to be "reasonable", they want them to be useless.
Quote:They are already getting a significant buff through the warp speed changes.
The same buff that all the other frigates are getting. They still need to be effective in their role once they land on grid, and there is very little room to cut into that effectiveness before they go back to being ****. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1750
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 20:24:00 -
[376] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help
You proposed changes; people have been whining. How many of these people that are complaining have actually tested these things yet? I'm betting very few.
Most of the actual complaints seem to center around links and implants; that's fine. It's logical. But perhaps instead of shitcanning your EAF changes and basing your rebalance upon the outrageous benefit that ganglinks and some implants provide, you might take a second crack and reexamining that mechanic. Maybe you should talk internally about backing those percentages down into the single digits, instead of only shaving a percent or two off of them next time. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
689
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 20:50:00 -
[377] - Quote
CCP Rise, I would say wait a bit for some real singularity tests.
For now, the camera bug has been keeping a lot of dudes off Singularity (I myself get headaches if I play more than 30mns right now on Singularity, and even then I can't see anything so I get killed a lot).
Wait until you have enough testing material and then go ahead :) |
Betty Bly
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 22:11:00 -
[378] - Quote
After checking a bit, I'm curious as to why these ships have the largest signature radius of all frigates by a good margin? Some are size of destroyers even after the updated stats. It doesn't look like they can perform the role they are intended for, and have any kind of tank fitted at the same time. So why so large? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
802
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 22:37:00 -
[379] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability. Reason they are flown less is more likely due to cost consideration, for the Sentinels abilities for instance you are better off running Inquisitors/Arbitrators if TD is your poison and the neuting Geddon if that is your thing. EAS are only really relevant when you are suffering from pilot shortages
On their own the EAS are currently quite formidable, they just have to be extremely picky when it comes to targets. But they are T2, and since they are not covered by the HAC exception the Devs made (put aside the specialization rule, bastards!) they should do their things so spectacularly well with little wiggle room outside the box .. just a shame that there is only the one hull as it tempts the Devs into more exceptions to cover as much ground as they can, hope they resist and remembers that there are plenty of frigate/light options beyond the EAS.
In short: They should be strong enough to be hated above all else, but in a way that they are not feared. Tricky, but doable. |
Chunky Milk
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 01:08:00 -
[380] - Quote
thank you :) |
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Major Killz
La Fraternite
253
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 01:21:00 -
[381] - Quote
There are serious imbalances that NEED to be addressed IMMEDIATELY THAT AFFECT ELECTRONIC ATTACK FRIGATES.
1. Strategic Cruisers + warfare-links + Covert Ops Cloak and Command Processors COMBINED IS A SERIOUS ISSUE. CCP could fix this issue easily by REMOVING the "Warfare Processor" subsystems. I and others CLEARLY prefer a cloaked-command ship.
2. Electronic warfare modules are also a SERIOUS ISSUE. I know pilots have been complaining about ECM for years. However, that was mainly due to widespread use, effectiveness and range. Tracking disruptors have ALWAYS been VERY EFFECTIVE to but were used less. Remote sensor dampeners were also effective but were used EVEN LESS. Well! Things have changed since CCP increased sensor dampeners and tracking disruptors effectiveness. NOW, Tracking disruptors and Remote Sensor dampeners seem to be on EVERY SHIP these days. Un-bonused these modules are as effective as a ship bonused for their use.
Note: there's also an interesting phenomenon in game that happens when ANY MODULE, AMMUNITION OR SHIP IS BOOSTED. Players immediately show, instant and remarkable interest. Which leads to widespread use in a module or mechanic that was largely ignored. Irrespective of the level change; even minute at least for awhile; untill the most effective become persistent.
3. Tech 1 cruisers and frigates are imbalanced. Most tech 1 cruisers can match or out pace tech 2 cruisers and MOST FRIGATES. Tech 1 cruisers should never outpace destroyers... Tech 1 frigates are as good or better than Interceptors; tech 1 electronic warfare frigates are as good or better than Electronic Attack Frigates. Not to mention Widespread use of tech 1 logistics (not many agree with this one at all).
Conclusion
So, this is the lens I look thru when considering these changes.
Electronic attack frigates ARE GOOD SHIPS (except the Hyena). There's just cheaper options that produce similar outcomes. Also, I'm not a fan of increasing the effectiveness of ECM, Remote sensor dampeners and tracking disruptors. However, I'm NOT AGAINST increasing neut range; warp disruptor and scrambler range and stasis webifier range. These are things that their tech 1 counterparts cannot reproduce. The Kitsune is fine as it is now. Removing their ability to apply damage is also something that will bring BALANCE TO THE FORCE. From there CCP CAN START REDUCING SIGNATURE RADIUS; lowering ship velocity and Increasing TANK. - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1377
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 03:12:00 -
[382] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote: Reason they are flown less is more likely due to cost consideration, for the Sentinels abilities for instance you are better off running Inquisitors/Arbitrators if TD is your poison and the neuting Geddon if that is your thing.
This is part of the problem. Unlike interceptors, which historically have bounced around 12 million isk per hull, EAS have cost 25m - 30m isk per hull. How many threads have their been in which Kitsunes have been dismissed in favor of a Blackbird or Griffin? Even before the buffs? For a 25m isk hull I want something special. I surely don't want to feel that if I get looked at I'll be blapped without any kind of effort.
The other side of the coin Gypsio III put very well. If you balance around the ships then links make them OP. If you balance around links, the ships by themselves are crap. I have a HG Halo clone that, combined with a Loki booster, makes the Hyena very appealing. Of course the stats look eerily what is proposed right now. And not too many people fly a Hyena today even with links.
The EAS are supposed to 'decentralize' your fleet's e-war. There are other outside the box ideas that have been touched upon, danced around, or not mentioned at all:
- Overheat role bonus. This would allow the e-war ranges to remain short but allow the ships to get range for a short period of time.
- Resistance bonuses. Replace some of the capacitor bonuses with shield or armor resistance bonuses and slap a cap recharge role bonus on the ship class.
- Slot Changes. Peel a high off of the Sentinel, Kitsune, and Hyena and place it in a mid or low. Couple this with a resistance bonus for some field survivability perhaps?
An example for the Kitsune might be:
2-5-3 slot layout
Frigate Skills: 30% ECM strength per level (Get the Rook/ Falcon ECM Strength Bonus) 10% ECM capacitor per level
EAS Skills: 4% Shield Resistance Per Level 5% ECM Module Heat Damage Reduction per level
Role Bonuse: 25% Faster Cap Regeneration
Edit: You would have a MWD, MSE, and three ECM mods. You would have the same strength as a Rook or Falcon but you could overheat for longer albeit only with three mods. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2069
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 03:54:00 -
[383] - Quote
the main reason why you didn't see EWAR frigs in fleets was the lock range. The T1 variant did basically the same thing and had a lockrange which made the ewar bonus useful.
example: sentinel was just a worse crucifier if all you needed was a frig with TDs. Cruicifier had almost twice the lock range out of the box. This means that you usually died to long range turret boats before you where even able to burn into lock range - sentinel just didn't do its job. You see the same thing with griffins and the T2 variant. A stock griffin can jam you from 70k, the old T2 variant cant.
all what was needed was the lock range. I don't care about the neut range buff of the sentinel, speed or hp buff - its already fine as it is IMO, the lock range buff however changes everything. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
sten mattson
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 07:39:00 -
[384] - Quote
dont touch the slot layout or the bandwidth of the sentinel please
IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!! |
Gorski Car
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
102
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 13:35:00 -
[385] - Quote
More attack less electronic. |
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 13:42:00 -
[386] - Quote
I absolutely love my Sentinel already, and this is just going to make it more awesome.
Better cap, slightly better speed, neut range in excess of point range...
I take my Sentinel out all the time for small-mid sized roams, as a combination support/secondary tackle. The fact it's so much cheaper than the Curse (which I also like a lot) makes losing it a lot less painful, while still giving a respectable cap drain and gun range nerf, which can help quite a bit in many circumstances.
Also good to see the Keres becoming useful again; that poor thing got sorely maligned by the t1 hull rebalance. I may actually have to buy a Hyena as well, though I still think it's the weakest of the lot by far (even less useful than the Kitsune, because the Kitsune prevents damage where the Hyena simply prevents fleeing. I can do similar with a Sentinel, reducing damage output (through hit range nerfing) and preventing escape through sustained cap destruction; or, with a Keres, dropping target range into the gutter and keeping point with little fear of retaliation). |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
537
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 18:35:00 -
[387] - Quote
how about something more dramatic here something unique with a more aggressive feel to it and more frigate like range.
KERES - make it creodron
Gallente Frigate Bonuses: 7.5% bonus to Drone Tracking and MWD velocity 10% reduction in warp disruptor capacitor need per level
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 10% bonus to warp disruptor range per level 10% bonus to Drone hit-points per level
Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets Fittings: 40 PWG, 205 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 325 / 400(+50) / 425(+75) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 375 / 187s (-93s) / 2.00 (+.66) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 355(+10) / 4.1 / 1095000 / 6.22s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 35km / 550 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric(-.5) Signature radius: 33
Role bonus 25% reduction in incoming damage due to sensor disruption techniques Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-į like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
537
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 18:39:00 -
[388] - Quote
HYENA
Minmatar Frigate Bonuses: 5% rocket and light missile velocity per level 10% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per level
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 35% bonus to stasis webifier range per level 5% rocket and light missile Rate of fire per level
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 3 launchers Fittings: 36 PWG, 145 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 410 / 375 / 350 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 355 / 175s (-91s) / 2.02 (+.69) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 385(+25) / 3.93 / 1083000 / 5.9s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 600 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Ladar Signature radius: 28
Role bonus 25% reduction in incoming damage due to sensor disruption techniques Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-į like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
537
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 18:43:00 -
[389] - Quote
KITSUNE
Caldari Frigate Bonuses: 25% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level 10% rocket and light missile velocity per level
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 10% reduction in ECM target jammers' capacitor need 5% rocket and light missile damage per level
Slot layout: 2H, 5M, 3L, 2 launchers Fittings: 26 PWG, 270 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 450 / 300 / 350 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 415 / 195s (-116s) / 2.12 (+.79) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 315 / 3.86 / 1117000 / 5.98s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65 / 520 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric Signature radius: 38
Role bonus 25% reduction in incoming damage due to sensor disruption techniques Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-į like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
537
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 18:56:00 -
[390] - Quote
SENTINEL
Amarr Frigate Bonuses: 20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer amount per level 10% bonus to Drone hit-points and damage
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 45% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer range per level 4% bonus to armour resistances per level
Slot layout: 3H, 3M, 4L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers Fittings: 46 PWG, 195 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 290 / 460 / 375 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 415 / 190s (-121s) / 2.18 (+.85) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+10) / 4.25 / 1112000 / 6.55 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20 / 60 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 575 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Radar Signature radius: 31
Role bonus 25% reduction in incoming damage due to sensor disruption techniques Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-į like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
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