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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. The Lostboys
121
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:36:00 -
[121] - Quote
Good changes, but I see 2 issues.
One is fuel savings from faction towers and sov. Fuel savings has THREE advantages: Lower cost, longer refuel times, and less to haul. The new block system increases the volume you need to haul to fuel your faction tower, a big issue for those who operate where a cloaky transport is the order of the day.
CCP: how about having the fuel savings show up as towers taking "skip hours", that is some hours the tower would need one less block? The tower would calculate the number of blocks needed in decimal each hour and round up:
Hour Needed Consumed 1 0.75 1 2 1.5 2 3 2.25 3 4 3 3 <---- skip hour 5 3.75 4 And so on.
Or just make the blocks smaller and towers use more per hour.
The other issue is that for people who collect their own fuel its not clear this saves effort.
Old system: gather fuel via mining and PI, take to tower.
New system: gather fuel via mining and PI, take to factory, make blocks, take blocks to tower.
The new system is actually more work! (But not much more, I guess averaged over the player base it will save time).
CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
August Guns
Generic Technologies and Futures Organization
1
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:37:00 -
[122] - Quote
Ariane VoxDei wrote: increasing the time between block consumption.
So regular towers would then cycle every 60m as usual Faction towers would cycle every 63m or 66m, essentially running 5% or 10% longer on each block.
I suspect the 1h tick is something hard coded and a real pain to change. It would be easier to add new fuel types or play with consumption quantity than to change the cycle time. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:37:00 -
[123] - Quote
Fuel "BLOCK" ?!
C'mon! You couldn't come up with something cooler than that?
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Kralin Ignatov
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
2
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:38:00 -
[124] - Quote
mkint wrote:Old system: Do math, haul fuel to POS
New system: do easier math, haul fuel to POS, haul assembly arrays to POS, re-manufacture fuel
This whole things sounds like another nerf to low/null/w-space PI for those who make their own fuel.
Nope. Since you can't get all the ice fuel from w-space anyways, and unlikely to get all componets from the planets, you'll be buying fuel blocks in k-space anyways. easier math, easier to haul, etc.
As for low sec / null sec, you are gonna need to refine that ice anyways, which requires a refining array or station already. This just requires more uses of production slots. So I hope CCP plans to boost those. |
MinSebsis
Steel Hammer Industry
38
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
Dierdra Vaal wrote:if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours? The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)
I agree with this, color is way faster, just a slight hue change, for race. Paying Customer - Capsaleer enabled in 2005 |
Kaaletram Lothyrawir
Ignus Astrum The Veyr Collective
3
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:39:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ok so this might be a simplistic way of solving the faction POS fuel problem but here goes anyway. Faction based fuel for faction tower. All that would need to be done would be a suitable discount/ build requirement for the faction fuel that would appeal to the tower owners and away you go. you could make the fuel cube T2 to match the POS type as well... just an idea... |
Yvan Ratamnim
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
37
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:39:00 -
[127] - Quote
ARG Damn forums.. |
Yvan Ratamnim
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
37
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:40:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP!!!!!!!!!!
Faction towers are hella expensive and the solution is slappying you in the face
Fuel block BP makes 40 instead of 4 blocks of fuel (truely small pellets) ... each pellet takes up 5m3 of space instead of 50m3 ...
Fuel usage goes x10 for standard towers, and x8 for faction towers (or whatever) ... hell due to there cost maybe even still give a 10% buff to fuel bay size....
This solves the faction issue hands down....
On a good note...
I AM SO HAPPY NO MORE JB PASSES FOR PEOPLE IN ALLIANCE/BLUE TO POS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEST EVER IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anchor / Unanchor delays finalyl won't be an utter chore! THANK GOD....
Dierdra Vaal wrote:if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?
The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)
YES PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just change the hue to the isotopes colors to distinguish them, yes the stands can be different as well, but please change the hue from blue to the iso colors!
....
and because it needs to be said.....
PLEASE KEEP THE WRECKABLE OUTPOSTS AND flogging MODULAR POS'S and NOMADIC POS'S high on the list of wanted items for the next expansion like VERY high
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Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
2
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:40:00 -
[129] - Quote
I unsubbed until you announced FIS.
I am definatly back to PLEX after these next 2 months run out.
take HW/LO out of the blocks and leave the consumption mechanics as is on those items
OR
Go fist yourself greyscale |
Largo Coronet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:41:00 -
[130] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Just to throw my support behind the ideas, as I had them too (they're that obvious):
Large = 400 blocks / hour Medium = 200 blocks / hour Small = 100 blocks / hour
Faction towers get a larger fuel bay AND a consumption reduction. SOV holders also get a consumption reduction.
BPO produces 400 blocks per run, and takes 5 minutes per run like all ammo BPO.
Click-drag-drop. Done. Woo cares about small block numbers!
It isn't rocket surgery! And instead of worrying over PERCENTAGES, just make the changes based on AMOUNTS.
i.e.
5 less blocks per hour per level of sov. (And yes, that's how much I think it should be.)
5 less blocks per hour for a faction tower.
That turns the whole thing into an algebra problem that someone in middle school should be able to solve.
You guys are unable to see the forest for the trees.
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries The Black Armada
35
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:42:00 -
[131] - Quote
Quote:While we're waiting to do a proper rewrite of the starbase system
THis!
BTW, when you guys go and fix the POS RMR fiasco; could you guys please fix the corp management UI as well. Would like a page in there for remote star-base management so I don't need to go to said POS and configure it for a Corp member.
Please and Thank you! Zen |
Crexa
Star Mandate Property Management Solutions
2
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:42:00 -
[132] - Quote
Nomad I wrote:To me this system makes pos fueling much more expensive. I have either to anchor an extra POS to produce blocks, because the production slots are so limited or I have them to buy on market. This system is becomming more annoying.
The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you.
Perhaps a new fuel producing module for pos? While your at it, take a look at refining arrays.
"...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?" |
DaChMon
STEEL AXIS inc.
1
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:42:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ohh happy guys, just happy of their blindness...
The new system, in fact, is more complex: 1) You still need to make the calcs for building the ice cubes 2) You still need to use a JF to move the ice cubes 3) Running a faction empire POS now will cost 30% more 4) A lot of ppl, to keep the running costs down, will be forced to do Planet Interaction (the most boring EVE feature in the last 5 years)
YES the system WAS complex, but CCP simplified it just apparently: CCP is forcing ppl to do Planet Interaction.
BE HAPPY!!!! |
Tazmikella
MicroCon Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:43:00 -
[134] - Quote
Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together.
First this is the "new" block for 1/hour for Small tower:
8x Coolant 4x Enriched Uranium 400x relevant racial Isotope 4x Mechanical Parts 20x Oxygen 1x Robotics 150x Heavy Water 150x Liquid Ozone
Well the current need for 1/hour for a Small tower is:
2x Coolant 1x Enriched Uranium 113x relevant racial Isotope 2x Mechanical Parts 7x Oxygen 1x Robotics 38x Heavy Water 38x Liquid Ozone
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?
What is wrong with that picture is ... you are actually having to spend more fuel on a Small tower up to a Large. These changes are going to increase the POS fueling FOURFOLD !! With the changes planned to PI and customs office, the price of fuel will go through the roof. Now, with the increased fuel needs small corporations will stop putting down POSes; thanks again for looking out for the solo or small pilot out there. Now Tech 2 prices will go through the roof because the small corporations won't be able to afford to do invention anymore trying to just maintain a Small POS. All your big-block organization will control all the moon goo AND the PI market because the small guys won't be able to compete, keep a custom office going, and afford the increased cost of fuel.
At a minimum make the Block Size of the fuel blocks the same as it is with a current small tower. And don't even get me started on the Racial tower. I got Racial towers for the pure fact that I don't have to spend so much ISK a month on fueling costs.
Thank you Greyscale for not getting out your calculator or LOOKING AT THE CURRENT GAME to see how things work. Thanks for again pushing the little corporations out of lo-sec/0.0, pushing out the solo players that enjoy this game, and catering to those large RMT alliance that could give a rats arse how much fuel costs because they have tons of PLEXes sinking into the game and macroers mining ice 24 hours a day. I've been fueling POS for 4+ years in the game, please ask the normal people what would be good improvements to the POS fueling system.
And it's not that hard to use a spreadsheet and calculator to do POS fueling. The ONLY nice thing in this dev blog is the decrease in anchoring/un-anchoring time and the Fuel Bay size so don't have to refuel so often. |
Silk Vixen
Kitsune Industries
1
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:43:00 -
[135] - Quote
I guess there's a way that could make this SLIGHTLY more tolerable... 20% reduction in build time for faction towers...this increase in fuel bay size is not effective. |
Tas Nok
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:44:00 -
[136] - Quote
(from Dierdra Vaal)
The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers
THIS ^^^ in a big way!
also for all those trying to kill this because their faction tower fuel bonus got killed also remember the cpu/pg usage is also gone so you can max out your towers and not use more fuel.
That said it would be nice to have one of the following: PG/CPU on faction towers buffed by the % of fuel they used to save <<----this is prefered tradeoff or along with the 4 vanilla block prints, have 4 faction prints released that put out 5 blocks per batch which can only be used in faction towers .... saw this elsewhere, but the problem is will faction towers be able to use vanilla blocks? |
Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
36
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:44:00 -
[137] - Quote
Crexa wrote: Perhaps a new fuel producing module for pos?
Sounds good to me. A low cost(isk/pg/cpu) module that people can use to keep on using regular fuel types? Not for making blocks (or maybe it is.) but just a pos maintenance module. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
17
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:46:00 -
[138] - Quote
I like this change a lot - makes it so much easier and you don't have to travel around the univers TWICE everytime you forget a component unless you build on site...
My only concern is the anchoring and unanchoring of towers... It should be much harder ninja-onlining towers in enemy space. If these are near instant up and running you can more or less keep spamming territory with the sov holders not given a chance to react. Also you need to pay super attention to steal towers getting taken down... Maybe it's a good thing, but still the hustling/stealing of towers was a charming part of Eve.
Pinky |
Dalton Vanadis
Miranda United F0RCEFUL ENTRY
424
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:46:00 -
[139] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:I am actually somewhat unhappy with these changes.
1) Having virtually EVERYTHING anchor and online in seconds is WAY too fast. It would be better, IMO, to allow multiple items to anchor/online at once, or to be able to queue up anchoring/onlining actions around a tower so that you can simply tell the tower where you want everything to be, and it will anchor it for you - freeing you up to go do some other activity instead of having to sit there and baby-sit the thing.
I hope that this reduction in demand will be paired with the bannings of many, many bots.
To the first point, this is supposed to be kind of a temporary solution from what the devs have been saying until there is a full rewrite of the system shortly. So development time to benefit ratio may be affecting what they're willing to implement with regards to this. I think the goal is to try and duct tape a lot of primary fixes to the system, then completely rebuild it soon^tm
To the second point, I don't think PI bots are that common, it seems that would be a giant pain in the ass to code compared to a mining bot (especially with all the interface changes they've done to PI), and plus, PI is very profitable for the time required to manage it, (if you're in the right system, i.e. not high sec), so there doesn't seem to be as much incentive to write a bot for it, since it doesn't require hundreds of hours to make a significant profit (like mining). Just my two cents on that subject. |
Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
36
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:46:00 -
[140] - Quote
Tazmikella wrote:Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together. ###stuff from someone that doesn't read####
costs are for 4 blocks. small POS uses 1 block an hour.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1279
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:46:00 -
[141] - Quote
Is it entirely impossible to give the towers different fuel cycle times, or does that complicate the matter too much?
IOW, faction towers have a cycle time of (say) 1h 5 minutes instead of a flat 1h, so that after a full day, it has only gone through ~22 fuel cycles.
edit: note to self GÇö reload the page before posting in order to note the many other posts saying the same thingGǪ GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
196
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:46:00 -
[142] - Quote
These changes are horrible and will obviously favor the big power blocks over the little guys, and will drive people out of wormholes! Derpity derp sandbox!
Wait, wrong thread - this sounds fantastic :)
Very nice CCP.
+1 on the color-coded racial fuel pellets. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Silk Vixen
Kitsune Industries
1
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:46:00 -
[143] - Quote
Tazmikella wrote:Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together. Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Crunchmeister
THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
81
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:47:00 -
[144] - Quote
I like the concept of the fuel blocks. I like the standings systems for jump bridges too. This should have been done I have a long time ago.
few problems with the fuel system as proposed though.
1. Fuel block runs are too small and take too long to produce. This is going to tie up assembly lines for a long period of time for people producing their own fuel.
2. Faction towers are essentially nerfed to hell with this making them no more valuable than a regular tower. So now to I buy a regular tower for 150M isk, or a faction tower for 2+B isk... That's now a no brainer.
3. Fuel bonuses due to sov need to be worked out. Reasons to hold sov are already becoming more scarce. If we're losing the fuel bonus from sov, then it's 1 less reason to hold sov in a system. |
Silk Vixen
Kitsune Industries
1
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Is it entirely impossible to give the towers different fuel cycle times, or does that complicate the matter too much?
IOW, faction towers have a cycle time of (say) 1h 5 minutes instead of a flat 1h, so that after a full day, it has only gone through ~22 fuel cycles. Not if you're lazy like Greyscale! |
Harleigh
Genbuku. Nulli Secunda
1
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:47:00 -
[146] - Quote
Maybe for some of the larger operators out there, they like the Faction tower fuel bonus as an way to extend time, but there are a number of us including myself who invested in the faction towers to get the benefits of reduced consumption in situations where we could not achieve it using sovereignty such as high/ low sec towers.
Given the high costs of fuels these days is there no way that the fuel consumption bonuses can be re-evaluated? Given that the small uses 1 block , Med 2 and the large 4 .. how about the factions just using 3 ? That would drop to 2 in 0.0 where sov is achieved just like it is today that would put a large faction burn at 50% of a large.
This would keep the other half of us happy and remove the need to manipulate the fuel bay sizes at all.
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Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
99
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:47:00 -
[147] - Quote
Friedward Schnorch wrote:2 questions.
"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"
You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size. this.
expect robotics price to raise a lot on the next hours/days...
as others people said, you could change things so it consume 100/100 block by hour and not 1. if it's a rounded number it have no importance for us on complexity. |
Dalton Vanadis
Miranda United F0RCEFUL ENTRY
424
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:48:00 -
[148] - Quote
Largo Coronet wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Approximate POS fuel costs per 30 days right now:
Amarr: 136 / 213 / 366 Caldari: 140 / 220 / 381 Gallente: 176 / 291 / 523 Minmatar: 139 / 217 / 375
Estimated costs after the fuel pellets get introduced:
Amarr: 87 / 171 / 341 Caldari: 90 / 178 / 354 Gallente: 122 / 241 / 480 Minmatar: 89 / 175 / 348 Question: Do these estimates factor in sov costs? And one more thing: Instead of the "half-and-half" baloney, why not just give all existing POS a month's free fuel and have done with it? None of this "HAY! LET'S INCLUDE A NEEDLESSLY STUPID TRANSITIONAL PERIOD THAT MAKES EVERY CORPS LOGISTICS TEAM RUN AROUND LIKE HAMSTERS ON SPEED FOR A WEEK!" For ONCE, can you stop trying fancy crap and just swap over with a pile of free stuff to make the change easy? This probably was the simplest solution for the dev team to implement, especially given how many other projects are going on and their stated planned full overhaul of the POS system. The downfall is that yeah, corps run around like mad and the market goes ballistic for a month, but that happens every expansion; get over it. |
MooKids
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
0
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:48:00 -
[149] - Quote
I'm sure it has been said, but I can't bother looking through all the pages.
But for the faction towers, how about instead of increasing the fuel bay size to compensate, the fuel cycle is increased. So regular towers are once an hour, tier 1 faction are one hour and 15 minutes, tier 2 faction are one hour and 30 minutes, or something like that. I'm sure that is a change everyone would be happy with. |
Gizan
Hounds Of War Bloodbound.
2
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Posted - 2011.11.07 16:48:00 -
[150] - Quote
So, let me get this strait, your making it cost MORE to run towers now? your fuel blocks use almost twice what my medium gally tower uses now!
Furture * 8x Coolant * 4x Enriched Uranium * 400x relevant racial Isotope * 4x Mechanical Parts * 20x Oxygen * 1x Robotics * 150x Heavy Water * 150x Liquid Ozone Current 4x coolant 2x Enriched uranium 225 isotopes 3x mech parts 1x robos 32x LO 10X HW |
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