Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 39 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Toshiko Kin
Material Reclamation Services
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:02:00 -
[271] - Quote
Nocturrne Primitive wrote:Temmu Guerra wrote:Nocturrne Primitive wrote:No! No! NOO!
So, not only do I have to flog myself to gather all of the fuel, but I also have to package it into friggin blocks....
How is this supposed to make our lives easier?
Why not just buy the blocks? Buy where? There is no market or even a station near most of our POSs. In 0.0 we must be self sufficient. At the moment, we harvest all of our POS fuels in system or nearby. Having to travel long distances and make or buy blocks is an epic nightmare.
Did I miss something? I could have sworn the dev blog said they would be manufactured in POS ammo arrays?
"The four racial fuel blocks will be built in batches of four in all stations, plus starbase ammo assembly arrays..."
So why are you traveling long distances again? |
Jesci Quinlan
Star Frontiers BricK sQuAD.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:02:00 -
[272] - Quote
Dalton Vanadis wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:Dalton Vanadis wrote:I would like to say that one idea that is probably easy to implement and will make all of your players who manage towers very very very happy with you is to just plop a full load of these pellets into the fuel bay on patch day, just erase their old fuel, put in 29 days of fuel blocks and call it a day. - Anchor Tower - Put in a bit of fuel - Convert to blocks for free - Tear down tower - Sell fuel Damn, always forget it's EVE, and players will always find a way to pull moar ISK. Something to consider might be that the injection of ISK/materials into the market might then offset some of the inevitable post-expansion market inflation of the materials keeping the overall system slightly more stable than the all out land-grab of materials that will happen otherwise. Plus leading up the expansion, if everyone was going to try and anchor towers to get the free fuel, tower prices will spike, likely making it an overall loss of ISK to just buy a tower off the market. Furthermore, increasing supply on the market through that means would be akin to seeding it directly on the market from the get go, which would decrease the transition period. But yeah, hadn't considered how people would scam the system, so probably wouldn't work overall... Too bad, would have made life easier for everyone just keeping their actual towers running.
Query or calculate the tower's run time. Replace the contents of the fuel bay with the corresponding number of fuel blocks. It's not that much more complicated. Giving everyone a month of free fuel is a really bad idea though. It will be abused as Callic pointed out, and the ISK value involved is not insignificant.
The issue I guess is that people may still throw up a bunch of temporary towers to produce large quantities of fuel blocks without the build time or factory costs. Whether that one time loophole is acceptable or not is up to CCP.
There's also the people who don't keep their fuel levels balanced to consider. The "run time" conversion would cause them to lose the excess fuel, but I'm willing to bet those people won't care enough to make a fuss about it anyway.
On another note, I'd just like to add my support for the idea of multiplying the whole system by a factor of 100 (and dividing the volume obviously). Maintaining granularity for the sov and faction fuel bonuses is far more important than keeping the number of blocks small. |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
133
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:04:00 -
[273] - Quote
after reading the 'starbase happy fun time' i thought you were actually doing something to help pos runners.
now we have more build jobs to run and a higher fuel cost in most cases.
you do not play this game do you? CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
511
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:04:00 -
[274] - Quote
Toshiko Kin wrote:Nocturrne Primitive wrote:Temmu Guerra wrote:Nocturrne Primitive wrote:No! No! NOO!
So, not only do I have to flog myself to gather all of the fuel, but I also have to package it into friggin blocks....
How is this supposed to make our lives easier?
Why not just buy the blocks? Buy where? There is no market or even a station near most of our POSs. In 0.0 we must be self sufficient. At the moment, we harvest all of our POS fuels in system or nearby. Having to travel long distances and make or buy blocks is an epic nightmare. Did I miss something? I could have sworn the dev blog said they would be manufactured in POS ammo arrays? "The four racial fuel blocks will be built in batches of four in all stations, plus starbase ammo assembly arrays..." So why are you traveling long distances again?
They're probably thinking of flying the ice fuels into null instead of actually mining the ice that's there, or encouraging industrialists in null to do that for them. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Atropos Kahn
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:06:00 -
[275] - Quote
Pretty nice for defenders and POS monkeys... But as an aggressor, I am meh.... Would like to see something mentioned on unanchoring pos's that have run out of fuel or have been abandoned.... Especially in w-space..
Buttons aren't toys.
|
Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:06:00 -
[276] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:after reading the 'starbase happy fun time' i thought you were actually doing something to help pos runners.
now we have more build jobs to run and a higher fuel cost in most cases.
you do not play this game do you?
Yeah, that 5 second anchor time is going to turn it into a real grind.
The only inconvenience this is going to cause is the transition period. |
Ciryath Al'Darion
FinFleet Raiden.
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:07:00 -
[277] - Quote
Do the transition so that fuel that is in bay is converted into blocks, the uneven part gets left behind as pi or ice products as they used to be.
It's very simple for you to do. Would be crime against your customers for you not run the simple script someone posted earlier to this thread.
It eases up every pos slaves work.
Benefits outweigh the downsides by tons.
The only downside for this that I've seen is that people don't need to build stuff at stations for the 1st round. So what? they haven't been needing to build it until now either. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
123
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:07:00 -
[278] - Quote
CCP ARE EEJITS!
PELLETS! IT IS CALLED FUEL PELLETS (as per initial idea and previous discussions)
Fuel Blocks just sounds silly, bordering on stupid immediately adjacent to moronic.
PS: Hurry up with removing the blasted things entirely .. they outlived their usefulness the first time they were spammed and thus caused premature hairloss, ulcers and death in the hauling population caught completely unawares. |
MiliasColds
Infinite Improbability Inc RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:07:00 -
[279] - Quote
i'm not a POS guy, but i see the questions people had regarding faction towers/ and the bonuses they get/what they mean to the players.
is i technically feasible to just change the cycle time for fuel use on faction towers, from 60 min to 75 min to 90 min, that gets less fuel same online time, and lower costs for that time. or same fuel same costs longer online time. just my two cents |
Silk Vixen
Kitsune Industries
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:09:00 -
[280] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Currently thinking about:
- Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
- Block build times
Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)
You could add a bonus to faction towers where labs/assembly arrays get a 20% reduction or so in the time it takes to manufacture/research/copyinvent etc |
|
Bullet Maggotson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:09:00 -
[281] - Quote
Ariane VoxDei wrote:Neither does cycle changing, if it is just a database entry listing a timer. We dont know. Lazy grey does. Really, if he couldnt come up with that changeover on his own (and lacked the sense to ask forum), then punching himself in the face over it (as per blog) is getting off very easily.
Yes it does. Changing cycle times is inherently more complex because moon miner and reaction cycle times are tied to fuel cycle times. |
Halvus
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:10:00 -
[282] - Quote
Some ideas:
1) Faction Fuel Saving: In order to retain the faction pos fuel saving, would it be possible to create separate faction fuel block BPOs? These would have their own (reduced) material requirements. Of course these BPOs would be harder to come by, being sold only in the appropriate faction stations.
2) Changeover: The changeover could catch a lot of people out. i.e. those that don't read dev-blogs, news etc. Would it be possible to convert any existing fuel into blocks during the downtime when this change is implemented? You could calculate the number of hours the current fuel would last, remove that amount of materials and replace it with the appropriate number of fuel blocks. Any excess materials could be left in the fuel bay.
I understand that these ideas would require extra development effort, but I think they would satisfy almost everyone who is complaining on this thread.
Halvus. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:10:00 -
[283] - Quote
I'd like to thank the people who skimmed the blog and didn't actually read it for giving me such a good laugh on an otherwise depressing day. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
60
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:13:00 -
[284] - Quote
I have most of a TL;DR of the thread going here. |
BigCountry
Knights Of Anarchy Shadow of xXDEATHXx
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:14:00 -
[285] - Quote
Well, while I think its a good idea, I dont like that when comparing the current fuel usage to what the new blocks will take , I am now gonna be spending more for tower fuel ....but , i guess atleast they are trying |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
133
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:16:00 -
[286] - Quote
Fuujin wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:after reading the 'starbase happy fun time' i thought you were actually doing something to help pos runners.
now we have more build jobs to run and a higher fuel cost in most cases.
you do not play this game do you? Yeah, that 5 second anchor time is going to turn it into a real grind. The only inconvenience this is going to cause is the transition period.
the setting up of a pos yeh its faster. wow
the cost looking at the ones im running is about 30% more, the fact i have to now build something else just to put in them ******* anoying. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|
Di Mulle
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:16:00 -
[287] - Quote
Just another voice about faction towers. Reduced fuel consumption is their biggest bonus and nothing else can sufficiently replace it. Losing that bonus under proposed system is a big hit.
More than that, where the sov bonus will go ? I am afraid, that you are in such rush now, that are unable to think about bigger picture. Seriously, someone at CCP should think about game as a whole and not depend only on some coder, who was given 1 hour to think about an issue and suffered with tunnel vision at the same time, thus forgetting about solution as simple as 2+2. Yea, I mean x100 approach, already given by players on a moments notice.
Losing/ getting some bonuses because of :insert gameplay reason here: is one thing and should always be open to discussion, losing them because of a shortsighted dev - big no no.
But I would like to talk about faction towers from just another point of view. Them losing bonus is a shame, them stopping to drop long ago - even bigger shame, because it was never explained why by CCP. But under current proposal their comeback would have no sense anyway. What is a big pitty, they long ago been a savior for otherwise dull and unprofitable mag sites.
There already is not so much "big hits" in possible drops. Every NPC activity in EVE is becoming more and more monotonous, be it mining, ratting or even exploring and sleeper stuff. You feel like sitting at a conveyor belt or an office 8 h per day. There is less and less place for an "adventurer" style, when you miserably spend half off the life wandering around, but hoping to find a rough diamond one day. Granted, there still are officers, still are rare drops from plexes, but other mini professions have lost that "woohoo" flavor. There is not so much stuff in EVE to make that flavor, and you are just trying to finally kill one of them. CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
511
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:16:00 -
[288] - Quote
MiliasColds wrote:i'm not a POS guy, but i see the questions people had regarding faction towers/ and the bonuses they get/what they mean to the players.
is it technically feasible to just change the cycle time for fuel use on faction towers, from 60 min to 75 min to 90 min, that gets less fuel same online time, and lower costs for that time. or same fuel same costs longer online time. just my two cents
No, it's not actually. Consider things like gas processing arrays and all don't start processing until the pos cycle hits. What this does is give an accurate amount of fuel required for the next cycle, which is hourly. Now... considering that this won't be a factor after this it's likely that when/if they rework pos' in the future they will be able to build that flexibility, however it's likely so ingrained in the current code that ripping the hourly cycle out has far greater potential to really break things than it's worth.
The multiply produced/consumed amount by ten, divide the size of the pellet/block/chunk by 10 (or 20 for hauling purposes...) makes a lot of sense however. You could easily then apply for example a 10% fuel efficiency bonus to a faction pos for example. Instead of 40/hr for a large pos, 36/hr. Instead of 10/hr for a small, 9/hr. I don't recall the actual percent saved with faction towers, but the math should work ok. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Letrange
Red Horizon Inc Cascade Probable
27
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:17:00 -
[289] - Quote
Chiming in to indicate that I'm favorable towards the "granularize the fuel" camp. Have the recipe make 400 cubelets of 0.5 m-¦ instead of 4 cubes each of 50 m-¦ each (these are still gigantic compared to say trit). This would allow you the granularity to have the faction/sov reductions have a graduated impact.
Seriously - we're more worried about how much place it takes and how many trips do I need to do than about x number of cubes.
or heck make the BPO/C make 200 cubes of 1m-¦ which gives you a 2% granularity with the simplification for "space" calculations. |
ED209X
South Park Development
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:19:00 -
[290] - Quote
I purchased my Faction Tower only for its lower fuel usage, not for the increased storage bay size.
I suggest more BPOs.. there must be 4 BPOs in this iteration.
Quote:"400x relevant racial Isotope"
If this is so then just produce "Faction fuel BPOs" that use less fuel to build the fuel blocks, but cost the same and seeded the same as all the others. These Faction fuel blocks would not be useable on normal towers.
|
|
Iniquita
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:19:00 -
[291] - Quote
Instead of the half and half fuel thing, have you considered just converting or replacing fuel in towers at downtime? This seems better than having to ensure each of our 100 pos has a 50/50 fuel mix in two weeks. Then having to haul back the old fuel type afterwards.
I would much prefer every tower just getting 2 weeks of fuel pellets. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
62
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:19:00 -
[292] - Quote
Could the Rorqual's compression system be allowed to manufacture fuel cubes? |
Tokino Kaalakiota
Kaalakiota Logistical Serivces
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:21:00 -
[293] - Quote
O M G
Easily best change of the upcoming patch (assuming it comes out in the upcoming patch) \o/
As an owner of a stupidly expensive, partially vulnerable ship, having to fuel a ridiculous amount of towers for staging/safekeeping just got OMFG so much easier.
Now if only you had put out these changes BEFORE I anchored/onlined >9000 guns/jammers/etc etc.....
Ur deffo on the right track...now if only you could get more...competent.... personnel to work on forum bans/temp bans......(GM Panic I'm looking at you...you already cost CCP a couple subscriptions)
-Tokino/LS |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
62
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:22:00 -
[294] - Quote
Iniquita wrote:Instead of the half and half fuel thing, have you considered just converting or replacing fuel in towers at downtime? This seems better than having to ensure each of our 100 pos has a 50/50 fuel mix in two weeks. Then having to haul back the old fuel type afterwards.
I would much prefer every tower just getting 2 weeks of fuel pellets.
I'm in favour of delegation of responsibility on this one, really. It's a bit more of a pain, but the sheer number of things that could go wrong if something doesn't convert right could make this a major pain to do. By saying it's the player's responsibility to make sure their POS are ready to cut over, means CCP doesn't have to worry about every single starbase converting right. |
Kristen Andelare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:23:00 -
[295] - Quote
I did some analysis using these numbers, compared to what I am using for fuel now and got these results:
Currently I run a Medium Faction (Tier 2) tower. I bought it because it was CHEAPER to RUN!!! This tower is in highsec and has been run near-continuously for over two years now (in various locations).
I have a system, where I dump fuel into the fuel bay in 500-hour bunches (usually straight from the anchored corp hanger next to it). Since I keep certain things offline, to save fuel, I am at less than maximum needs for Heavy Water and Liquid Ozone.
I dump:
500x Charters 500x Robotics 1000x Uranium 1500x Mechanical Parts 2000x Coolant 3500x Oxygen 7500x Liquid Ozone 17000x Heavy Water 84500x Racial Isotopes
To make the fuel blocks to give me the same duration, I will need: 500x Charters 250x Robtics (half current) 1000x Uranium (same as current) 1000x Mech Parts (2/3 of current) 2000x Coolant (same as current) 5000x Oxygen (more than current) 37500x Liquid Ozone (FIVE times current) 37500x Heavy Water (over double current) 100,000x Helium Isotopes (more than current)
So I see a net gain in the Robotics production, the hardest PI product for me to manufacture, and a smaller gain in Mechanical parts, a somewhat difficult product to manufacture (due to planetary limits of noble metals on Barren planets)
But I'm totally screwed on Ice Products consumption here.
The fact that I have a faction tower no longer matters to me (the extra fuel bay size is worthless!). and the fact that I keep the lights turned off to save energy is also, no longer of any value. Way to go there!
I have been running this operation alone for over two years. I mine my own ice, make my own PI since it became possible, and earn my own charters.
I will make the following suggestions:
increase the blocks needed by a factor of ten, as other posters have suggested, and give the faction towers BACK their advantages in fuel consumption. Just make 40 blocks per run, using the same materials input, and then make the normal towers need 10,20,40 blocks per hour.
While you're at it, ALIGN the amount of Heavy Water and Liquid Ozone each mined block of Ice produces. The disparity between the two has ALWAYS been an issue with planning POS fueling. And there is also more need for Liquid Ozone anyway, as it's the fuel of jump bridges, etc. Make them both 50 for normal ice. You math scheme here just further insures the ridiculous shortage of O3 on the markets, and abuses solo miners/industrialists/POS operators like me. If you did that, I wouldn't worry too much about losing the fuel savings from having POS modules offline.
Other than what I've stated above, I like the change overall, it will be helpful, and it will make people's POS fueling a simpler process.
thanks CCP for thinking about POS operations. Keep iterating.
|
Nairb Ecrep
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:23:00 -
[296] - Quote
Just to throw in my opinion, I strongly support the idea of increasing the number of blocks to facilitate the faction bonus, as well as the Sov bonus. In the end all that really matters is m3 we have to move, not number of blocks, so this would allow current bonuses to work and still make it awesome to streamline fueling poses. |
Largo Coronet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:25:00 -
[297] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:PELLETS! IT IS CALLED FUEL PELLETS (as per initial idea and previous discussions). YAH! 50m3 PELLETS!
{I know, you're being silly.}
Imagine the size of rabbit you'd have to have to make a pellet that big.
|
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
56
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:25:00 -
[298] - Quote
Why not just convert the fuel that is currently in the fuel bay into fuel pellets? |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
35
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:26:00 -
[299] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Alice Katsuko wrote:Very nice changes. Might be a stupid question, but how exactly will jump bridge access be controlled now? Will it be purely through standings? And will we be able to set the level of standings at which jump bridge access is granted?
Basing it purely on control tower aggression settings may not be the best idea, because it may not allow for sufficient level of control. For example, an alliance will probably have its POS network configured to not shoot dark and light blues, but may not want light blues to use its bridge network. Purely on aggro settings, yes. If the tower won't shoot you, you can use the bridge. The CSM was very clear that JB passwords are all public knowledge already so it's a pretty meaningless security check in practice.
Thanks for the clarification. It's a very welcome change. But when you overhaul the POS system, please consider adding more granularity to JB and POS access controls.
|
Iniquita
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:26:00 -
[300] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:Iniquita wrote:Instead of the half and half fuel thing, have you considered just converting or replacing fuel in towers at downtime? This seems better than having to ensure each of our 100 pos has a 50/50 fuel mix in two weeks. Then having to haul back the old fuel type afterwards.
I would much prefer every tower just getting 2 weeks of fuel pellets. I'm in favour of delegation of responsibility on this one, really. It's a bit more of a pain, but the sheer number of things that could go wrong if something doesn't convert right could make this a major pain to do. By saying it's the player's responsibility to make sure their POS are ready to cut over, means CCP doesn't have to worry about every single starbase converting right.
Then it would be nice if they left in the old fuel consumption as an option. Code pos to use both fuel types, old before new. That way old fuel will be consumed first until gone then any fuel pellets in the tower would be consumed. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 39 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |