Most important sentence:

"While we're waiting to do a proper rewrite of the starbase system"

Give us a modular POS, like the great flogger of the dead horse in the sky saw in his dreams!

A few questions:

1) What happens to the sov bonus to fuel use?

Turrets, launchers, EW batteries and hardeners now take 5 seconds to anchor/unanchor and 120 seconds to online/offline

Most important sentence:

"While we're waiting to do a proper rewrite of the starbase system"

Give us a modular POS, like the great flogger of the dead horse in the sky saw in his dreams!

As a former POS fueler I can only smile at the fact that I don't need a calculator and an excell sheet anymore to fuel a POS and yet another thing in EVE is added that I can say "in the old days you needed to..."

A few questions:
1) What happens to the sov bonus to fuel use?

The one downside of this big-blocks approach is that it's impossible to give faction towers a fuel consumption bonus any more (you can't consume 2/3 of a block). We talked to some large-scale starbase operators about this, and they told us that the main bonus of faction towers for them is actually that they last longer between fuel cycles. To try and compensate for the increased running costs, we've taken the above bay size increases and added +25% bay size on top of that for the "tier 1" faction towers, and +50% bay size for the "tier 2" ones. We're hoping people will find that a satisfactory tradeoff, but we're listening for further feedback on this change.

Agree, let's do exactly this.

On a first calculation, I think the build times for fuel blocks are a bit too high. At 10 minutes/run, thats over a day for each week of fuel for a large tower. I guess you are counting on a mini-industry to arise for this.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

The benefit of faction towers is two-fold:
- Longer run time before refuel
- Lower cost per period

You're basically removing the cost benefit.


Better solution:
Instead of producing 4 fuel blocks per batch, produce like 100 or some other larger quantity per batch (and obviously make the volume per block lower and the blocks consumed/cycle higher). then you can apply fuel reduction bonuses as per usual and everyone will be happy.

Again, a lot of people, including me, bought a faction tower to save fuel cost, which is not insignificant. Removing that makes the investment pointless if all it does is give more time between refuels, which with this change would be of questionable value since it will be much easier.

Could you extend the time between fuel cell usage to give bonuses for faction towers and sovereignty i.e. normal tower usage every 60 minutes - faction tower 75 minutes or whatever factor currently separates the fuel usage.

They're dropping the isotope requirements?
A direct effect of the goonswarm war against Ice miners?

Again, a lot of people, including me, bought a faction tower to save fuel cost, which is not insignificant. Removing that makes the investment pointless if all it does is give more time between refuels, which with this change would be of questionable value since it will be much easier.

They're dropping the isotope requirements?
A direct effect of the goonswarm war against Ice miners?

A few questions:

1) What happens to the sov bonus to fuel use?

The benefit of faction towers is two-fold:
- Longer run time before refuel
- Lower cost per period

You're basically removing the cost benefit.

Better solution:
Instead of producing 4 fuel blocks per batch, produce like 100 or some other larger quantity per batch (and obviously make the volume per block lower and the blocks consumed/cycle higher). then you can apply fuel reduction bonuses as per usual and everyone will be happy.

Again, a lot of people, including me, bought a faction tower to save fuel cost, which is not insignificant. Removing that makes the investment pointless if all it does is give more time between refuels, which with this change would be of questionable value since it will be much easier.

Could you extend the time between fuel cell usage to give bonuses for faction towers and sovereignty i.e. normal tower usage every 60 minutes - faction tower 75 minutes or whatever factor currently separates the fuel usage.

2 questions.

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.

And will faction towers be available again? I might be wrong, but AFAIK they were removed them from loot tables about 2-3 years ago.

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.

Onlining new guns as old ones get disabled... now super easy. Kinda makes it pointless to disable guns even if there are no more offline ones waiting because they could anchor new ones in 5 seconds.

Why, yes, lets. Maybe not absolutely right now today now, but... yes!

A few questions:

1) What happens to the sov bonus to fuel use?

2) What's the manufacture time on the blocks? - Answered in the devblog, sorry - 10 minutes.

3) I'm guessing assembling fuel into blocks, inside the fuel bays, over the deployment DT is too complex? That would be a better solution for players.

Very nice changes. Might be a stupid question, but how exactly will jump bridge access be controlled now? Will it be purely through standings? And will we be able to set the level of standings at which jump bridge access is granted?

Basing it purely on control tower aggression settings may not be the best idea, because it may not allow for sufficient level of control. For example, an alliance will probably have its POS network configured to not shoot dark and light blues, but may not want light blues to use its bridge network.

2 questions.

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.

I think a lot of people are going to be happy with the patch but not those who fuel towers - they now have to build stuff and the amounts needed have just gone through a roof:

1 Large POS with individual fuels/with pellets for one hour

Enriched Uranium 4/16
Oxygen 25/80
Mechanical Parts 5/16
Coolant 8/32
Robotics 1/4
Isotopes 450/2000
Liquid Ozone 150/600
Heavy Water 150/600

It looks to me that someone has mucked up their figures - they seem to have used the 1 hour fuel consumption of a large tower to work out the cost of a fuel pellet and then said that fuel pellet will be used to fuel a small pos for 1 hour, net result four times the current amount of fuel is needed!

I think the numbers for the pellets need to be re-worked so that the fuel consumption for a _small_ pos is used as the basis for the build cost of a single pellet.

Kithran

The benefit of faction towers is two-fold:
- Longer run time before refuel
- Lower cost per period

You're basically removing the cost benefit.


Better solution:
Instead of producing 4 fuel blocks per batch, produce like 100 or some other larger quantity per batch (and obviously make the volume per block lower and the blocks consumed/cycle higher). then you can apply fuel reduction bonuses as per usual and everyone will be happy.

Again, a lot of people, including me, bought a faction tower to save fuel cost, which is not insignificant. Removing that makes the investment pointless if all it does is give more time between refuels, which with this change would be of questionable value since it will be much easier.

Nice suggestion, but they can't easily do that. The POS system is pretty much locked to 1-hour cycles. Reworking it for arbitrary cycle length would not be trivial.

Would it be possible for each class of faction starbase to have it's own faction fuel block? It could have a reduced cost and (potentially) a benefit for running the tower on that class of fuel.

With this change, you don't need to worry about having thousands of fuel blocks in a starbase to allow for partial consumption, but the faction towers don't lose their consumption bonuses.

The easiest bonus would be for the same ingredients, the faction block print produces 5 blocks.

The way we're strongly advising players to approach this handover is to fill your fuel bays with "half and half"

GÇóWe didn't do this ages ago because I couldn't see a good way to handle the handover until someone pointed out the (obvious) half-and-half solution, at which point I punched myself in the head for not seeing that earlier

i hate your homogenous forceful solution to this stuff.

you could of made fuel blocks do everything the PI mats do and left the ice parts just the way they are and some folks would of still benefited from the way the consumption formula's worked on HW and LO. but, now everyone has to use the same amount of ice no matter. what

its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

The benefit of faction towers is two-fold:
- Longer run time before refuel
- Lower cost per period

You're basically removing the cost benefit.


Better solution:
Instead of producing 4 fuel blocks per batch, produce like 100 or some other larger quantity per batch (and obviously make the volume per block lower and the blocks consumed/cycle higher). then you can apply fuel reduction bonuses as per usual and everyone will be happy.

Again, a lot of people, including me, bought a faction tower to save fuel cost, which is not insignificant. Removing that makes the investment pointless if all it does is give more time between refuels, which with this change would be of questionable value since it will be much easier.

On a first calculation, I think the build times for fuel blocks are a bit too high. At 10 minutes/run, thats over a day for each week of fuel for a large tower. I guess you are counting on a mini-industry to arise for this.

The one downside of this big-blocks approach is that it's impossible to give faction towers a fuel consumption bonus any more (you can't consume 2/3 of a block). We talked to some large-scale starbase operators about this, and they told us that the main bonus of faction towers for them is actually that they last longer between fuel cycles. To try and compensate for the increased running costs, we've taken the above bay size increases and added +25% bay size on top of that for the "tier 1" faction towers, and +50% bay size for the "tier 2" ones. We're hoping people will find that a satisfactory tradeoff, but we're listening for further feedback on this change.

Large Pos = 4 Block /H = (4*24=) 96 Blocks a day * 2,5 min each = 240 min (/60=) = 4 H for 1 POS. I have to maintain 10 Poses, so I have to produce 40 h every day for a day of Fuel ;-)
That will change my Workload from 1 day a Week running Jita buy Orders + Transport + fuelling to producing Fuel every day + Transport + Fueling. That makes my eve live easier, because I dont have to think about "What should I do with all my spare time in Eve?"

2 questions.

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.

And will faction towers be available again? I might be wrong, but AFAIK they were removed them from loot tables about 2-3 years ago.

Now, is that for a me0 bpo? With no skills? Cause I'm wondering if researching the bpo for ME, and having high PE, makes it so that you're expanding the inputs in terms of volume, rather than compressing.

Any waste factor on the blueprints? PE still going to affect them?

edit: bah. quick post needs a receive notifications checkbox.

This is an excellent first step in fixing all of the many things wrong with starbases. I really can't find anything about this proposal that I don't like. I do have a request for the summer. Can we next tackle the way they look and act?

It was proposed and sketched out for you years ago to make the control tower be a core that other modules physically attach to and that is dockable by a single ship (or perhaps a small number of multiple ships for medium and large towers). The current configuration of having modules floating in space next to this gigantic tower never made a lot of sense to me compared to physically joining them together for power and computing connections. With Incarna now a reality, a starbase could even be a small location you and your friends can walk around inside of, meet up in, etc.

The one downside of this big-blocks approach is that it's impossible to give faction towers a fuel consumption bonus any more (you can't consume 2/3 of a block).

any thoughts in adding a way to "stack" or queue anchoring and onlining of pos modules? This would be a big time saver for the pilots involved on the same lines as changing pos fuel over to blocks.

"We stuck with small numbers of blocks and no fuel use bonus on faction towers because dealing with small numbers of blocks makes starbases in general easier to use"

You're replacing eight fuel types with one, this new system is inherently simpler. I don't think using smaller numbers is worth the cost of fuel granularity. EVE players deal with numbers bigger than two digits all the time, it is a little patronising to implement changes for this reason.

Change the BPO to yield 50 or 100 fuel blocks, then adjust block volume and fuel use accordingly. This will allow for faction towers to get their usage bonuses. It would also accomodate the soverignty fuel bonus you seem to have forgotten about / glossed over.

As it stands currently, you'll get the bonus on large towers but nothing on medium/small due to :math:. Still thinking about that one though

The math isn't THAT hard. You do some formulae, we'll stick it in our spreadsheets. Same with faction. And I agree with others wanting faction POS BPCs added back to the drop tables/LP stores. Hell, come up with CONCORD POS so that Incursion LP has some value again.

Someone posted earlier about trying to get ammo into POS guns as they run out. One word: Lasers.

Approximate POS fuel costs per 30 days right now:

Amarr: 136 / 213 / 366
Caldari: 140 / 220 / 381
Gallente: 176 / 291 / 523
Minmatar: 139 / 217 / 375

Estimated costs after the fuel pellets get introduced:

Amarr: 87 / 171 / 341
Caldari: 90 / 178 / 354
Gallente: 122 / 241 / 480
Minmatar: 89 / 175 / 348

So, before you bought all the fuel items and use them in your starbases. Why would you still buy the pieces instead of just buying blocks directly? Then it goes from 8-10 buy orders down to 1 with no manufacturing time.

I wonder if this change to consumption will make a marked difference to the trading price of Robotics...? I'm a touch unsure whether the drop in 'demand' will be significant enough, but if it is... well now, even more interesting... :)

Approximate POS fuel costs per 30 days right now:

Amarr: 136 / 213 / 366
Caldari: 140 / 220 / 381
Gallente: 176 / 291 / 523
Minmatar: 139 / 217 / 375

Estimated costs after the fuel pellets get introduced:

Amarr: 87 / 171 / 341
Caldari: 90 / 178 / 354
Gallente: 122 / 241 / 480
Minmatar: 89 / 175 / 348

So basically you are just adding another step in the fueling process while removing some bonuses?

Doesn't seem like anything was gaining and the drudgery increases.

3) is technically feasible but raises the technical risk sufficiently that it'd have pushed the whole thing back to a nebulous "later release" (again), so we skipped it..

Old system: Do math, haul fuel to POS

New system: do easier math, haul fuel to POS, haul assembly arrays to POS, re-manufacture fuel

This whole things sounds like another nerf to low/null/w-space PI for those who make their own fuel. Of course it'll be good for Greyscale's RMTing friends since they don't actually feed themselves anyway.

Turrets, launchers, EW batteries and hardeners now take 5 seconds to anchor/unanchor and 120 seconds to online/offline

Question: Do these estimates factor in sov costs?

Give me back my frugal HW/LO use.

if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)

increasing the time between block consumption.

So regular towers would then cycle every 60m as usual
Faction towers would cycle every 63m or 66m, essentially running 5% or 10% longer on each block.

Old system: Do math, haul fuel to POS

New system: do easier math, haul fuel to POS, haul assembly arrays to POS, re-manufacture fuel

This whole things sounds like another nerf to low/null/w-space PI for those who make their own fuel.

if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)

if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)

Just to throw my support behind the ideas, as I had them too (they're that obvious):

Large = 400 blocks / hour
Medium = 200 blocks / hour
Small = 100 blocks / hour

Faction towers get a larger fuel bay AND a consumption reduction. SOV holders also get a consumption reduction.

BPO produces 400 blocks per run, and takes 5 minutes per run like all ammo BPO.

Click-drag-drop. Done. Woo cares about small block numbers!

It isn't rocket surgery!

While we're waiting to do a proper rewrite of the starbase system

To me this system makes pos fueling much more expensive. I have either to anchor an extra POS to produce blocks, because the production slots are so limited or I have them to buy on market. This system is becomming more annoying.

Perhaps a new fuel producing module for pos?

I am actually somewhat unhappy with these changes.

1) Having virtually EVERYTHING anchor and online in seconds is WAY too fast. It would be better, IMO, to allow multiple items to anchor/online at once, or to be able to queue up anchoring/onlining actions around a tower so that you can simply tell the tower where you want everything to be, and it will anchor it for you - freeing you up to go do some other activity instead of having to sit there and baby-sit the thing.

I hope that this reduction in demand will be paired with the bannings of many, many bots.

Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together.
###stuff from someone that doesn't read####

Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together.

Is it entirely impossible to give the towers different fuel cycle times, or does that complicate the matter too much?

IOW, faction towers have a cycle time of (say) 1h 5 minutes instead of a flat 1h, so that after a full day, it has only gone through ~22 fuel cycles.

2 questions.

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.

Question: Do these estimates factor in sov costs?

And one more thing: Instead of the "half-and-half" baloney, why not just give all existing POS a month's free fuel and have done with it? None of this "HAY! LET'S INCLUDE A NEEDLESSLY STUPID TRANSITIONAL PERIOD THAT MAKES EVERY CORPS LOGISTICS TEAM RUN AROUND LIKE HAMSTERS ON SPEED FOR A WEEK!"

For ONCE, can you stop trying fancy crap and just swap over with a pile of free stuff to make the change easy?

8x Coolant
4x Enriched Uranium
400x relevant racial Isotope
4x Mechanical Parts
20x Oxygen
1x Robotics
150x Heavy Water
150x Liquid Ozone

So, let me get this strait, your making it cost MORE to run towers now? your fuel blocks use almost twice what my medium gally tower uses now!

I am actually somewhat unhappy with these changes.

1) Having virtually EVERYTHING anchor and online in seconds is WAY too fast. It would be better, IMO, to allow multiple items to anchor/online at once, or to be able to queue up anchoring/onlining actions around a tower so that you can simply tell the tower where you want everything to be, and it will anchor it for you - freeing you up to go do some other activity instead of having to sit there and baby-sit the thing.

Nope. Since you can't get all the ice fuel from w-space anyways, and unlikely to get all componets from the planets, you'll be buying fuel blocks in k-space anyways. easier math, easier to haul, etc.

As for low sec / null sec, you are gonna need to refine that ice anyways, which requires a refining array or station already. This just requires more uses of production slots. So I hope CCP plans to boost those.

I swear there is just too much common sense coming from CCP these days.

Who are you people and what have you done with the real CCP???



Nice going guys!

This probably was the simplest solution for the dev team to implement, especially given how many other projects are going on and their stated planned full overhaul of the POS system. The downfall is that yeah, corps run around like mad and the market goes ballistic for a month, but that happens every expansion; get over it.

Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together.

First this is the "new" block for 1/hour for Small tower:

8x Coolant
4x Enriched Uranium
400x relevant racial Isotope
4x Mechanical Parts
20x Oxygen
1x Robotics
150x Heavy Water
150x Liquid Ozone

Well the current need for 1/hour for a Small tower is:

2x Coolant
1x Enriched Uranium
113x relevant racial Isotope
2x Mechanical Parts
7x Oxygen
1x Robotics
38x Heavy Water
38x Liquid Ozone

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?

Read the blog, and the 15 responses to this again. You get 4 blocks for the that price. Cost for starbases did not just quadruple.

Wow, thanks for yet another w-space nerf in the winter patch. Now, not only is PI going to cost us a lot more, but instead of fueling our tower mostly on PI goods from in our system, and only needing to haul in ice goo for fuel, we either need to buy it ALL, or haul everything out, find a nearby factory, buy ice goo, and haul it all back in again.

CCP, PLEASE stop only considering the "big alliance in nullsec" case when you design these things. That's not your entire player base, and homogenizing your game takes out a lot of what makes it cool in the first place.

Seriously. Do you want to just kill the game? It is good intent to create "blocks" that people can use to fuel, but you are going about it all wrong and will harrass to stop people from using POSes all together.

First this is the "new" block for 1/hour for Small tower:

8x Coolant
4x Enriched Uranium
400x relevant racial Isotope
4x Mechanical Parts
20x Oxygen
1x Robotics
150x Heavy Water
150x Liquid Ozone

Well the current need for 1/hour for a Small tower is:

2x Coolant
1x Enriched Uranium
113x relevant racial Isotope
2x Mechanical Parts
7x Oxygen
1x Robotics
38x Heavy Water
38x Liquid Ozone

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?
[...]

why cant i build these at a POS, where i have NO STATION NEARBY THAT I CAN DOCK IN?

Wow, thanks for yet another w-space nerf in the winter patch. Now, not only is PI going to cost us a lot more, but instead of fueling our tower mostly on PI goods from in our system, and only needing to haul in ice goo for fuel, we either need to buy it ALL, or haul everything out, find a nearby factory, buy ice goo, and haul it all back in again.

CCP, PLEASE stop only considering the "big alliance in nullsec" case when you design these things. That's not your entire player base, and homogenizing your game takes out a lot of what makes it cool in the first place.

That would most likely be a much more complicated change: instead of just adjusting a couple of database entries you'd have to implement a way to queue or (un-)anchor modules in parallel. The dev blog and posts by devs in this thread have made it quite clear that they are working on or towards a real solution to the disaster which are POS'. I'd rather see them spend some small amount of time on quick and easy fixes, which also achieve a goal well enough, instead of using much more time to rework the current system with similar results. That time can be used to either fix something else or work on the new system already (fingers crossed!).

I do agree though that it shouldn't be possible to anchor and online a tower in mid-combat, apart from that the change seems just fine though

Wow, thanks for yet another w-space nerf in the winter patch. Now, not only is PI going to cost us a lot more, but instead of fueling our tower mostly on PI goods from in our system, and only needing to haul in ice goo for fuel, we either need to buy it ALL, or haul everything out, find a nearby factory, buy ice goo, and haul it all back in again.

CCP, PLEASE stop only considering the "big alliance in nullsec" case when you design these things. That's not your entire player base, and homogenizing your game takes out a lot of what makes it cool in the first place.

For people worrying about the cost of the blocks on market.

Each 4-block batch would cost around 500k isk to build right now. A large tower consumes 530k isk worth of fuel every hour (caldari fuel).

Selling the blocks at 132k/unit (530k for 4, the same price POS owners are paying now), would net the builder 4.3 mil/day per production line, or 43 mil/day per industry char.

This is pretty damn good for T1 production, so you can be sure lots and lots of people will do it, and unavoidably drive the prices down.

Just a quick question for people using Faction Towers.

How long does it take for the fuel savings to make up for the cost of buying the tower in the first place?

(If you bought it when they were cheaper, it's another matter)

You practically have to have a POS just to build anything these days in any quantity.

You're kidding, right? You know nothing of database and data table management, right? "Global search and replace" never made it to your computer school at kindergarten, right?

Pubbies...

Yeah, you'd think CCP wanted us to be more reliant on one another instead of having it spoon fed to us by NPC corps.

Oh wai...

That actually isn't a real issue, since it's just an investment. You can unanchor and resell it (if it hasn't gotten blown up of course) at any time, getting your "deposit" back :)

yeah. they are still woth 2 bil, because everyone wants them for there reduced Fuel need. oh wait...

Couple of thoughts-

Please please seed the BPOs for the fuel blocks well in advance of the change, to get stocks in the market. Having a couple days of every tower offline would be amusing, but a bit of a pain for most.

The day of the switchover to fuel blocks, what happens to the fuel already in the tower, where does it go? And would it be possible to prestock towers with say, 1 day of fuel blocks at DT - many of the smaller corps do not have players that can login right after downtime, and the thought of 8 offline large towers in some of the wormholes.....could be potentially a mess(although great fun for people looking to loot and pillage random towers)

.

yeah. they are still woth 2 bil, because everyone wants them for there reduced Fuel need. oh wait...

This sucks from a WH perspective. Now you not only have to haul in ice products but you also you have to create the stupid blocks. I fail to see how this "simplifies" anything.

Currently thinking about:

• Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
• Block build times

Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)

Currently thinking about:

• Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
• Block build times

Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)

They're worth 2bil because drop rates for faction POS gear have been ****** for a while, and very few if any new ones show up.

I would like to say that one idea that is probably easy to implement and will make all of your players who manage towers very very very happy with you is to just plop a full load of these pellets into the fuel bay on patch day, just erase their old fuel, put in 29 days of fuel blocks and call it a day.

yay

I would like to say that one idea that is probably easy to implement and will make all of your players who manage towers very very very happy with you is to just plop a full load of these pellets into the fuel bay on patch day, just erase their old fuel, put in 29 days of fuel blocks and call it a day.

Not very balanced, but then you won't end up with a giant scramble of doom as everyone tries to catch up with the BPO's and manufacturing and everything within a week of release. Just a thought, since this change seems to be geared towards simplicity, making the changeover that simple would be nice.

Yay for easier starbase logistics!

Would it be possible to add to defensive bonuses for faction towers? Maybe better base resistances, or bonuses to weapon turrters, instead of fuel bay bonuses? Or, even better, faction specific boosts to each kind of tower, affecting the whole gamut of tower uses.

Soooo when someone is being POS-bashed, (assuming they have an infinite amount of batteries) they can continually anchor and online ECM/Neut/SD batteries???? Someone mentioned doing the same with guns earlier, but because you have to come outside the shield to put ammo in them, it didn't matter. But those batteries don't need ammo, and many would argue a tower should only have ECM batteries on it, as they are rather OP.

I really see a problem with these new anchoring/onlining times. Someone mentioned having a queue set up. I think this is more appropriate, as a POS SHOULD be challenging to set up in that it takes a long time. But you shouldn't have to sit there and stare at each mod waiting for it to anchor/online.

POS bashes are already long and boring enough, please don't make it worse.

seriously cut out the cycle time nonsense

it's way easier to increase blocks produced and do different fuel consumption amounts cause that breaks nothing and requires no new code

Wow, thanks for yet another w-space nerf in the winter patch. Now, not only is PI going to cost us a lot more, but instead of fueling our tower mostly on PI goods from in our system, and only needing to haul in ice goo for fuel, we either need to buy it ALL, or haul everything out, find a nearby factory, buy ice goo, and haul it all back in again.

CCP, PLEASE stop only considering the "big alliance in nullsec" case when you design these things. That's not your entire player base, and homogenizing your game takes out a lot of what makes it cool in the first place.

Currently thinking about:

• Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
• Block build times

Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)

THIS.

I applaud the changes on the whole, if you LISTEN to some of the suggestions given in this thread then this could be a very very good patch for pretty much all concerned, however; Please do not just push the concerns of wormhole dwellers aside saying "well, someone has to get hurt in every patch".

Currently those that live in W-Space only need to haul ice products in, now we have to develop the logistics to either get the blocks from K-Space and haul that in (greater volume then before) or manufacture the blocks after hauling the same ice products in... self-sustainability has taken a hit.

Listen to and react to the feedback... already in ~10 pages there is a concensus building on how to overcome some of the issues you highlighted.

if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)

THIS.

I applaud the changes on the whole, if you LISTEN to some of the suggestions given in this thread then this could be a very very good patch for pretty much all concerned, however; Please do not just push the concerns of wormhole dwellers aside saying "well, someone has to get hurt in every patch".

Currently those that live in W-Space only need to haul ice products in, now we have to develop the logistics to either get the blocks from K-Space and haul that in (greater volume then before) or manufacture the blocks after hauling the same ice products in... self-sustainability has taken a hit.

Listen to and react to the feedback... already in ~10 pages there is a concensus building on how to overcome some of the issues you highlighted.

Currently thinking about:

• Fuel divisibility situation (ie, faction/sov fuel bonuses)
• Block build times

Keep on posting, we are paying attention :)

I hate to say it, but i think CCP are trying too hard to please us...

As a lifelong starbase masochist I'm all for starbase improvements. Hell there's a reason I mentioned fuel pellets in the CSM proposal. However this whole devblog smacks of pushing out a fix as quickly as possible to impress us, rather than spending a little more time to get it right. Shortcuts like half and half fueling, cutting fuel bonuses and the inevitable market chaos caused by the changes in a short period between patches.

Greyscale, rest assured that we are impressed that you're actively working on fixing these issues. Please take the time to do it properly rather than rushing things out for the holidays. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd rather wait an extra few weeks for the automatic handover than spend December re-fueling towers constantly.

BPO seeding in the main patch, fuel change over in the new year.

You listen as well, with this system you only need to haul in fuel pellets that you bought off the market. If you don't want to manufacture them at your own POS, which you can. Using the same damn materials you are used to.

You havn't the production capacity in station to make all the fuel. On large POS need a production slot for 5days every 29days.

You havn't the production capacity in station to make all the fuel. On large POS need a production slot for 5days every 29days.

1 robotics makes 4 fuel blocks, so large towers use 1/hour (4 blocks), mediums use 0.5 (2 blocks) and smalls use 0.25 (1 block).