If you want a long range webber, bring a Rapier, Huginn, Loki or Hyena. The point of the blood raider ships is the powerful neuts + webs to completely incapacitate an enemy ship. In order for that to work, the ranges of the two EW systems must be more or less matched. Having 80km webs with 6 to 12km neuts/nos isn't overly useful as you can only use one bonus at a time in that case. Currently you can use both very well together. The 90% web at 23km (fed navy web + t3 skirmish links) allows you to crash any reasonable gap to neut/nos range in a matter of seconds. And once in neut range, that 90% web is still crippling.

If the bonuses are changed as proposed, we have the following:

1) A webbing Cruor or Ashimmu that doesn't even bother fitting neut/nos since it is kiting and will never get them in range.

2) A NOSing Cruor or Ashimmu that has a web but doesn't take advantage of the range bonus since all combat is within normal web range anyways.

See the problem?

The current Cruor is actually completely fine from a bonus standpoint. The real problem lies in a lack of slots and fittings. In order for our current Cruor to work, it needs a 4th midslot + the PG/CPU to fit a small t2 cap booster. It cannot gain that slot through losing one anywhere else, it's simply short a slot. With the NOS bonus, it doesn't need the cap booster or the 4th mid. And so with only the NOS change, the ship is basically fixed. It still isn't a great ship, but it has some uses. To be more useful it needs more damage output compared to the current one on the live server. 110 dps is a bit on the anemic side imho.

The Ashimmu requires no changes as it is currently performing very well. However, I don't think any would complain if the NOS change went through. It would be a double buff in fact, as it would allow for skipping the cap booster and thus be able to fit a pair of 90% webs. Now that is powerful indeed! The web range bonus swap would remove that new ability however as suddenly you'd need 2 webs to get almost the same effect. And the range bonus is, as stated numerous times, of no value to the Ashimmu.

if you choose not to use the nos then the cruor is reduced to a tormentor with slightly better stats and a web range bonus
yes it will be hard to catch up to it but not impossible some ships are just fast enough to make up for having one web on them
also to be doing damage at that range you would have to be fitting beam lasers which would bring your not very good 179dps* down to 76dps**
I don't think the comparison with the comet is fair it has 50***more dps(230) one more low slot and is 84/ms faster (after skills)

no, dead space neuts on the cruor solve nothing overheated web range is 13km not even a-type nos' 10,21km solves the problem of being kited

*Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagartion S, 2x Hobgoblin II
**Small Focused Beam Laser II, Aurora S,2x Hobgoblin II
***Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S, 3x Hobgoblin II

In the cruor that means that you web him first, but before you get in your small nos range, he webs you , and sicne you are NOT in a fast frigate, you will nto be able to push into the NOS range, therefore your nos is useless.

With the ashimmu this problem is near non existant, sicne the medium NOS and medium euts basically match non bonused web range. THat means you web enemy first and that gives you leverage to brign him into your neut range very fast and he cannot avoid it usign his own web.

Ashimmu will be very strong with this new set of bonuses.

The cruor.. will be dead.

Since when do you get kited outside of scram range ?! And since when does the Comet scram kite with blaster FFS ?!!! And why aurora for God's sake !?

Come on ! You must be trolling ! Proper Comet scram kite with railguns. It has about the same gun dps (you can use a damage rig to offset the MFS) but one more drone ; it have indeed more tank (more low or more rig) and more speed. But with deadspace nos, you will toast the Comet.

Kiting setup, if *some* ship *might* be able to catch you despite the web (it's actually harder to slingshot at lower speed), that leave all the other sitting ducks, and nothing prevent you from using speed mod instead of tank anyway.

If you want a long range webber, bring a Rapier, Huginn, Loki or Hyena. The point of the blood raider ships is the powerful neuts + webs to completely incapacitate an enemy ship. In order for that to work, the ranges of the two EW systems must be more or less matched. Having 80km webs with 6 to 12km neuts/nos isn't overly useful as you can only use one bonus at a time in that case. Currently you can use both very well together. The 90% web at 23km (fed navy web + t3 skirmish links) allows you to crash any reasonable gap to neut/nos range in a matter of seconds. And once in neut range, that 90% web is still crippling.

If the bonuses are changed as proposed, we have the following:

1) A webbing Cruor or Ashimmu that doesn't even bother fitting neut/nos since it is kiting and will never get them in range.

2) A NOSing Cruor or Ashimmu that has a web but doesn't take advantage of the range bonus since all combat is within normal web range anyways.

See the problem?

The current Cruor is actually completely fine from a bonus standpoint. The real problem lies in a lack of slots and fittings. In order for our current Cruor to work, it needs a 4th midslot + the PG/CPU to fit a small t2 cap booster. It cannot gain that slot through losing one anywhere else, it's simply short a slot. With the NOS bonus, it doesn't need the cap booster or the 4th mid. And so with only the NOS change, the ship is basically fixed. It still isn't a great ship, but it has some uses. To be more useful it needs more damage output compared to the current one on the live server. 110 dps is a bit on the anemic side imho.

The Ashimmu requires no changes as it is currently performing very well. However, I don't think any would complain if the NOS change went through. It would be a double buff in fact, as it would allow for skipping the cap booster and thus be able to fit a pair of 90% webs. Now that is powerful indeed! The web range bonus swap would remove that new ability however as suddenly you'd need 2 webs to get almost the same effect. And the range bonus is, as stated numerous times, of no value to the Ashimmu.

CRUOR

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
50% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness and range

Minmatar Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Stasis Webifier range

Role Bonus:
75% bonus to Small Energy Turret range
100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage
Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will continue to drain your target's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level.

That is complete lack of understanding of small scale cobmat (where the ashimmu will be used).

Have you even used an ashimmu? The web range bonus will be a HUGE buff to the ashimmu. Its largest problem nowadays is to CATCH its prey not to stop it compeltely (That the neuts will eventually do as well). The ashimmu is among the slwoest cruisers around, web range bonus will finally make it it useful against smart players in cruisers as well


There is a reason why we ( the corp) bought about 50 ashimmus when the changes were announced). BEcause they wil lbe come among the best ships for small gang combat (no small gang is not 50 peopel for you nullbearers, its 3 or 4 people). And we know a LOT about this small scale engagement stuff.

Clearly you're the one not very experienced at pvp. Fights start within 20km typically unless the attacker deliberately initiates at range. Overheated fed navy web is 23km with links which your average ashimmu, especially a small gang or solo one, will have. A 90% 23km web brings everything to a dead stop. That's far more useful to a brawler than the ability to web them at 50km. If you're starting combat at 50km in a ship with a 25km gun range and <15km neut/nos range, you're doing it wrong even if you have a 50km web. The ashimmu is currently one of the finest cruisers in the game for solo/small gang. This web change is a massive nerf to it. Yes it will still have its uses, but it is an unnecessary nerf given its lack of popularity.