fortunately for you, they've announced this change months in advance

I don't get why they just didn't make the Orca into a mini Rorq that lets you compress in highsec.

Over the last couple of years, its always the niche players that get screwed, this is another such niche player bashing event, which is not even intentional, they don't even notice them to be honest. One of the fun parts of Eve was the ability to try to do what you want, but it seems to me that this is being squeezed all the time and to be different means that you have to be a masochist!

because it's already a mini carrier :-3

<3 <3 orcas

Exactly. You have several months before the change goes into effect, during which you can clear out your inventory. Update your buying price to reflect the new mineral content of the modules after the change. It will take a while for prices to adjust, but once they have you can resume business as usual.

If anything this is a long-term boost to those who specialize in this business model because the barrier of entry has increased from Scrapmetal Processing 4 to Scrapmetal Processing 5.

Taking nearly 30% of a yield is not a small change by any means, I now have to do 30% more to match miners who now have to do 10% less (assuming they take the 2 minutes to find a new favorable refining station), and null folks who do practically nothing to suckle on the teet of R32/R64 Passive moongoo.

I shouldn't have to contemplate branching out, I shouldn't have to contemplate moving, the only reason for this change is to appease null sec groups and CCP's ridiculous fascination with reading news reports about how 4K nolifes spent 18 hours fighting in .01% real time.

I get you are Goonie, and have blued 3/4 of EVE already, but I don't feel that forcing folks to kiss a ring of a null lord is promoting emergent game play. It makes no sense and only further decreases the value of living and operating in Low Security space.

they're trying to see how ****** they can make the game for miners before they realize their life sucks

What world do you live in? I still see ice belts and planets to do pi at in highsec. We have the SAME ice belt mechanics in null as you do in empire.

Regarding the Minmatar Outpost providing no advantage over the other racial ones when it's not upgraded, that's a good point, will look into that one.

Fortunately, any given CSM member does not need to please the entire playerbase to make it on the CSM. It's only necessary to throw in with our voting bloc.

So querns already made the point that you don't seem to get how asteroid belts work, so let's attack the rest of your premise. Imagine thescenario. You are a three day old newbie in an alliance well known for loving its newbies. You're looking for something to do, so do you a) start training down a pointless dead end training path (considering you want to pvp) and grab a venture, then go mining for 5m isk/hr? b) Run around behind a veteran looting his ratting sites for what is certainly more than that? c) bug a mentor for a stack of free frigates, have fun PvPing, then say something adorable on voice comms and get showered with more isk than you think you can possibly ever use (really, a couple hundred million) because of it?

Hint: The answer is not A.

And to squash the typical and hilariously wrong response I always see, the answer still does not become A if the person looking to buy the minerals just doubles the price he's willing to pay, because if you need some minerals are you going to a) offer to pay twice the going price just so you can get them locally or b) import them from empire in one of any of the readily available compressed forms?

Hint: The answer is, once again, not A.

Just to cap things off, none of this changes if we're talking about a veteran player, except the activities are more like A) jump into your mackinaw and, realizing you've trained yourself down a dead-end training path, drink yourself into a stupor while mining these "pristine belts" for (at best) about 35m/hr b) run around as the veteran newbies follow around, ratting for a minimum of 60m/hr or c) Go out and have fun PvPing, knowing that if you die, you'll actually make money because of the corp reimbursement policies. Or, d), **** off to FW lowsec on an alt and farm the missions for far more isk/hr than anything you'll do in your own space... but that's a different topic entirely.

Answer? Still not A, sorry.

In case you weren't aware, grav sites (the scanner based mining sites) respawn pretty much instantly if they're fully mined out. In other words, it's not like a lack of ore is why "we can't get enough minerals" - it's got everything to do with mining simply not being a worthwhile task.



Oh no, now you'll have to train your skills up to their maximum level and use implants to achieve your fullest potential, just like every other activity in the game!

TLDR, but I have a question for the Devs...

I own junk - ships and modules - across four hisec regions which I have bought specifically for the purposes of reprocessing. If I were to reprocess them all today - which isn't practical - they would convert into perhaps 20 billion ISK worth of minerals.

If I understand correctly - and I accept that I may not - after this change is introduced, the quantity of minerals I'd get back - and hence their value - would be dramatically less, even if I skilled up to the max (I'm currently at Scrapmetal Processing 4, Refining 5 and Refinery Efficiency 5) and despite having 8.0+ standing with two NPC Corps.

Am I missing something here, or is a lot of time and financial investment about to be wiped out?

We want to leave a waste margin if and when future changes are needed.

Regarding the Minmatar Outpost providing no advantage over the other racial ones when it's not upgraded, that's a good point, will look into that one.

A possible fix for this to me appears simple - make JF's unable to carry compressed ore.

In this way the Rorq has a use (outside of sitting in a POS or for seeding a region with SBUs), people actually have to put something at risk e.g. freighters jumping compressed ore into Low sec to the waiting Rorq etc in order to be able to get the benefit of importing from High and Refining in null.

Give the Lowsec types something to look forward too as well with this change who doesn't like a un-escorted freighter jumping into your welcoming arms.

Funny to see goonies telling everyone how mining works when across their vast 3/4 of null asteroid belts sit untouched. "Oooh the mechanics" What a load of **** Mynnna. I respect your grasp on economics in the game but this is a pretty weak reach for justifying the fact that all across CFC space there are thousands of roids untouched. Its not the mechanics, its cowardice and laziness. Im sure if you could passively grab those rocks like moongoo you and your friends would have stopped complaining years ago.

Let me guess its the afk cloaky dudes fault. Maybe you should have Martini ask for another round of forum alt warriors to spread the news.

What a joke.

Think about the fact that a skill that gives you 2% per level seems to give you nothing.
Seriously a 10% bonus after you waited days or month...
And think about the fact that diference between a guy that have a skill at 4 and guy that have a skill at 5 is only 2% . It is hard .

Why would we need to whine on eve-o when we have multiple CSM members?

I guess i dont get how this changes the desire to train refining at all, which is being advertised as the main reason.

The bonus of 0 skills vs max skills stays roughly the same, due to pos array, yet now you can get max skill bonus only in null.

Wouldnt giving pos and null 50% base and replacing null ore with a "superdense" 25% variant achieve all this without killing off mineral compression and reducing mission rewards?

What am i missing here? It does really seem like "YOU WILL HAVE TO SHIP ALL ORE TO NULL!!!" is the main reason.

Oh okay, so now we're expecting these three day old newbies to be running multiple accounts in order to serve as our slave labor?

Answer still not A, sorry.

And if we're talking about veteran players, well, Ishtars can be multiboxed quite effectively as well and so scale horizontally almost as well as mining does. They don't scale horizontally as far, but I've heard four or five is manageable and anomaly respawns can certainly support that. So, 240-300m/hr from those 4-5 ishtars. Multiboxed mining gang would need about 8-10 mackinaws to match that, but only if they have a rorqual for boosts, a hauler or two, and never have to move or do anything to interrupt the on-paper isk per hour value. Hulks, while they're higher yield, really aren't worth comparing since the requisite effort is a considerably larger increase.

So for most people the answer is still A, and unfortunately, the number of mass multiboxing sperglords in this game is low enough that, yeah, they still don't really supply enough minerals. Good thing compression exists, huh?

Think about the fact that a skill that gives you 2% per level seems to give you nothing.
Seriously a 10% bonus after you waited days or month...
And think about the fact that diference between a guy that have a skill at 4 and guy that have a skill at 5 is only 2% . It is hard .

I've been playing with some of the numbers, especially regarding the possibility of using a fully upgraded Minmatar refinery (60%) for refining in nulsec.

Looks like a 20% buff to output over current rates. There may be a reason to mine in sov nulsec now. Assuming you're willing to accept the risks involved.

I also like the changes to compressed ores and scrapmetal reprocessing. It seems compressed Veldpar is now a better compression rate than 425mm Rails.

We want to leave a waste margin if and when future changes are needed.

Regarding the Minmatar Outpost providing no advantage over the other racial ones when it's not upgraded, that's a good point, will look into that one.

It will be better once the change happens, due to the maximum return of 55%.

It won't be better than the current.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rztizv7FJOTyS1KqTorge0YtRpY60Lp_bzSnWhmaRDo/edit?usp=sharing

details the compression. With an 80% refine rate, you're looking at 21.5-1 compression, where as a 425mm Rail does better.


On the other hand, this adjusts the mineral ratios fairly significantly.

The inherent risk that comes with living in nullsec.

Yet it entitles your CSM members to lobby for changes to mechanics that don't even impact "you", all because you refuse to mine belts in your own space. Sounds about par for the course for Goon Logic.