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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1638
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:31:53 -
[211] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Will probably give you guys updated numbers for HP and bonus change tomorrow, did want to address the jump fatigue generation thing which seems to be coming up a little bit at least.
Every 'hauler' in the game got this reduction because the fatigue change wasn't meant to hit logistics, this ship simply fits under that umbrella. It is not meant as any kind of special treatment or specific incentive to use it outside of high-sec. It's fine if that happens but I just wanted to point out that it's a role based bonus and that's all. SO not true CCP Rise - it was only after tons of screaming and 404 pages that CCP Greyscale backed off a bit and gave in about JF's and logistics. Anyway that aside - very excited to see this ship enter game and the opportunities and content it will generate! .... so where's that image of the ship you were looking for? They gave the 90% to JF/Rorqual in the original proposal. They decided to break uniformity. So it went both ways. |
RonUSMC
Kree Advanced Research Products Agency
9
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:34:14 -
[212] - Quote
I'm trying to think of this from a lore perspective.
ORE Industries is designing a ship in response to the changing world. I would imagine they would give the designers these goals in their design. I am a product designer at work and usually the way we do it when we design a product is we define success. So if I were to define success for the ORE designers, I would say that it has to meet all of the design goals. This of course is designing to your goals but also including physics in the end, so everything may not be achievable.
Goals:
- It needs to be able to transport very expensive ships (ala Incursion fighting squads) better than existing methods
- It needs a better chance of surviving than existing methods
Given: The default configuration does not need to be considered. Since you might be hauling 20B in ships, you will want to officer mod it, so any existing modules can be used.
Existing methods are a Carrier or a Jump Freighter. So, to achieve success with this goal I would say that it needs to have much more capacity than a Carrier and survivability than a Jump Freighter.
A Carrier is a defensive platform with a small cargo. A (Jump) Freighter is a large cargo platform with low defenses.
How can we bridge that gap between the two?
1. It has to have more capacity than a carrier. 2. It has to be more survivable than a JF/F.
We cannot add active weapons to a Freighter, so it needs to be able to survive using 1 or 2 different methods. The first method is tank and the second method is escape. Those are the only two methods of surviving a gank. So, how does the current design match up to the requirements?
If it's EHP cannot be larger, then it needs more methods of escape. Why not fit a Large Micro Jump Drive? |
Maxwell Smiles
Exiled Kings The Fearless Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:35:00 -
[213] - Quote
Hmm This ship will never be seen in high sec with these stats, which is a shame as the artwork looks impressive.
a 5% velocity bonus on 62m/s is about 2.5m/s per level, i can so see people maxing out the ore skill for this. This should probably be agility, so that its is actually usefull
Incursion runners are the only people in eve that move large ships regularly, mission runners may rebase 1-2 times in a year and buying an expensive ship (im guessing carrier prices) to cut down the number of round trips by 2/3 seems like a bit of overkill
People will have to train another skill (i am guessing it will cost the same as the freighter skill at 100m) to fly a ship that can move 3 battleships. i cannot imagine many people will be training it to use a ship they may fly 2-3 times a year
being able to carry 3 battleships is very pointless needs to be at least 5 to make its designed functionality with while
The tank is way too weak a properly tanked orca can hit 410k ehp, it needs to be double an orca at least, and should be comparable to a carrier (as should all capitals given the number of capital armour plates required) It is technically a carrier minus the drones and triage reps and if you do allow carriers in hi sec this ship will probably be dead on arrival in terms of usefulness.
People who will end up using this ship probably wont know the first thing about proper tanks and will use it to stick all there worldly possessions into and will rage quit when the loose everything flying through udema.
The cargo hold is way to small for someone wanting to use this ship to rebase by the time you fill the 4k with cap charges tractor units, depot ammo you will still need to jump into a hauler to get most of the stuff you will need, cargo bay needs to be bigger perhaps on par with the orca, so the ship actually becomes convenient.
To make it actually more useful to more people 1) perhaps give it a jump drive so hot droppers can use it to pick up their ships after they pod home after a hotdrop. 2) Make the bay re-configurable through modules, One could give it a really large cargo hold, one a ship maintenance bay, another a large fleet hanger that could be used in ice belts similar to how the freighter/orca combos currently work, as well as speciallized bays for moving ore, minerals etc. The ship will need to be able to have everyday uses or it will never be used 3) Both
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SoulRipper666
Blue-Fire
30
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:36:45 -
[214] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
BOWHEAD
Ore Freighter Bonus: 5% bonus to max velocity per level 5% bonus to ship maintenance array capacity per level
Role Bonus: 90% reduction in jump fatigue generation
Slot layout: 0H, 3M, 3L, 3R; 0 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 1350 PWG, 215 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 10000 / 11000 / 36500 Capacitor (amount / recharge) : 3900 / 235000 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed): 65 / .065 / 640000000 / 1.37 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 51.5km / 45 / 3 Capacity (cargo / ship maintenance array): 4000 / 1300000 (goes up to 1.6 something with ore freighter 5) Sensor strength: 12 Signature radius: 3200
My corp lives in wspace and this ship is highly anticipated from us as we suck at PVP and go through lots of T1 doctrine ships. However, the ship maintenance array of 1.3M-1.6M is quite a bit underwhelming. A rough estimate puts that at 100 Frigs / 15 Cruisers / 3 Battleships.
I feel like this ship should be much more capable if it is going to require us to train another (rank 10?) skill and buy a ship that will most likely be 1-2 billion ISK or more.
The amount of time and effort that will be required to adopt this ship is easily mitigated by removing rigs from your 15 cruisers and using a normal freighter or jump freighter. Rig's are not that expensive...
I think myself and many others were looking for a ship that would be at least twice as useful as a carrier in terms of transporting ships.
I realize there is a concern of bridging large quanitity of ships around nullsec to avoid jump fatigue or moving large quantities of fitted ships through wormholes, but there has to be some middle ground. Increase the mass of the ship or put a restriction on bridging this type of ship. I am sure there are a number of ways to counter these issues.
Personally, I think if you're going to make us train a high rank skill to fly this expensive ship, it should come with a ship skill bonus of 25% SMA capacity per level. At max skill it would have around 3.9M m3 of ship cargo space which is around 8 battleships.
I think that is a much more reasonable capacity for the time and effort of escorting this ship around. Maybe 8 battleships is too many. Maybe 4-6 is a better range, but seriously 3?
You could probably make 3 trips across highsec moving 3 individual battleships before you could move the bowhead across highsec once.
Some less important criticisms I have of the ship...
It sounds like you were basing the attributes off of the Orca, which is perhaps why it has rig slots and mid slots, however it if is supposed to be a freighter, I think it should stick with only low slots and higher base HP. This would remove the MWD ability and force people to escort these ships rather than provide more gank magnets in highsec as people will be tempted to move them solo using MWD. Give us a reason to sign up for the power of two...or three...or fifteen. :)
Blue-Fire Best Fire
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Masao Kurata
Z List
126
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:38:25 -
[215] - Quote
RonUSMC wrote:Given: The default configuration does not need to be considered. Since you might be hauling 20B in ships, you will want to officer mod it, so any existing modules can be used.
Just web it into warp, people do this all the time with freighters full of goodies and don't get caught because it is actually very very hard to catch them and you never get to scan them in the first place. |
Ghurthe
KRH Mining
0
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:39:03 -
[216] - Quote
If things remain as they are, and SMB's don't drop ships, then I think the low EHP is fine. That means that while yes you can suice the Bowhead, you're not getting any loot from it.
If they change, and SMB's can drop ships, then I think bringing their EHP up a little bit is warranted. If their EHP doesn't get raised, then moving anything more than one marauder in them is effectively useless.
I suppose for moving 3 Tech 1 Battleships it's fine. But at that point, why bother unless for simple rebasing. Incursion fleets typically run faction BS, and CCP said they wanted to make incursion runners benefit from this.
Unless CCP Increases the EHP, this will not substantially benefit incursion runners as they've previously stated it would. It would only help the odd corp trying to move their flotilla of ships across eve. Even then, 1.5 Million m/3 of HACs is just as juicy a target as an SMA full of Marauders.
This ship will almost never be able be used to it's fullest capacity with the exception of moving lots of ships through a JB Network, or with moving oodles of T1 ships in high sec, unless it's changed. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
776
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:39:44 -
[217] - Quote
Praal wrote: Ask all the "insta"-align ceptors that get killed in nullsec how that works out for safety.
how does this work? instawarping means you cant lock it regardless of your scan res, leaving smartbombs as only option at your disposal to kill them. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
162
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:41:58 -
[218] - Quote
Excellent addition to the fleet. the stats look right to me. I will be buying and using one regularly.
Now I don't want to include myself among the whiney doomsayer players and all, so while I do want to stress my joy about this ship, I would also like to propose that there be a T2 version capable of transporting fitted caps - not jump drive capable. So basically would do a couple of things. 7 billion ISK capital ship high sec hauler that would have to risk going through low to pick up the capitals and get back to high. Could be interesting content generator. And second, well, I am trying to move caps from Derelik to Khanid. 15 jumps and with fatigue it will take me a week. Miserable. The situation needs to be alleviated.
Bravo on this ship. Sure only a few battleships for the incursion runners. But I have fitted frigates, destroyers, and cruisers sitting all over everywhere that I hate repackaging. This ship will be great and it will see use, despite what the complainers say.
A T2 cap ship mover version would provide additional content and meet an additional need. |
Makalu Zarya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
216
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:42:06 -
[219] - Quote
I came here hoping to see a ship that will actually be useful now that you have basically made long range rebasing an extremely painful process and came away disappointed (que the bittervet soundtrack).
Capacity (cargo / ship maintenance array): 4000 / 1300000 (goes up to 1.6 something with ore freighter 5)
So it carriers about 50% more in ships than a carrier and less than half worth of cargo. Granted for people who only have carriers maybe this is a worthwhile ship. While I understand that you stated that it is a niche ship and I guess it can go into high sec (which is totally useless for someone like me) this seems to make it way too limiting. I think you should consider bumping those stats to at least 10k m^3 cargo room and AT LEAST match a supercarrier worth of ship space. Otherwize you've basically made a purpose designed ship which gets outdone by a non purpose designed ship. Granted not everyone has a super or a titan but those ships are no means few and far between anymore. |
Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
31
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:43:18 -
[220] - Quote
Maxwell Smiles wrote:Hmm This ship will never be seen in high sec with these stats, which is a shame as the artwork looks impressive.
a 5% velocity bonus on 62m/s is about 2.5m/s per level, i can so see people maxing out the ore skill for this. This should probably be agility, so that its is actually usefull
Incursion runners are the only people in eve that move large ships regularly, mission runners may rebase 1-2 times in a year and buying an expensive ship (im guessing carrier prices) to cut down the number of round trips by 2/3 seems like a bit of overkill
People will have to train another skill (i am guessing it will cost the same as the freighter skill at 100m) to fly a ship that can move 3 battleships. i cannot imagine many people will be training it to use a ship they may fly 2-3 times a year
being able to carry 3 battleships is very pointless needs to be at least 5 to make its designed functionality with while
The tank is way too weak a properly tanked orca can hit 410k ehp, it needs to be double an orca at least, and should be comparable to a carrier (as should all capitals given the number of capital armour plates required) It is technically a carrier minus the drones and triage reps and if you do allow carriers in hi sec this ship will probably be dead on arrival in terms of usefulness.
People who will end up using this ship probably wont know the first thing about proper tanks and will use it to stick all there worldly possessions into and will rage quit when the loose everything flying through udema.
The cargo hold is way to small for someone wanting to use this ship to rebase by the time you fill the 4k with cap charges tractor units, depot ammo you will still need to jump into a hauler to get most of the stuff you will need, cargo bay needs to be bigger perhaps on par with the orca, so the ship actually becomes convenient.
To make it actually more useful to more people 1) perhaps give it a jump drive so hot droppers can use it to pick up their ships after they pod home after a hotdrop. 2) Make the bay re-configurable through modules, One could give it a really large cargo hold, one a ship maintenance bay, another a large fleet hanger that could be used in ice belts similar to how the freighter/orca combos currently work, as well as speciallized bays for moving ore, minerals etc. The ship will need to be able to have everyday uses or it will never be used 3) Both
ummm please dont listen to this guy. what you propose is make a gank proof swiss army knife that does all the things better than any of the things. that just silly. i can see giving it more EHP as it needs a little more. i can see giving it a LITTLE bit more room for ships as i agree 3BS is pretty useless. all that other Crazy you wrote how ever is insane and would make this the most seen ship in eve since titans.
P.S. Fix the Ishtar
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Makalu Zarya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
216
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:45:57 -
[221] - Quote
Cr Turist wrote:
ummm please dont listen to this guy. what you propose is make a gank proof swiss army knife that does all the things better than any of the things. that just silly. i can see giving it more EHP as it needs a little more. i can see giving it a LITTLE bit more room for ships as i agree 3BS is pretty useless. all that other Crazy you wrote how ever is insane and would make this the most seen ship in eve since titans.
P.S. Fix the Ishtar
he knows what he is talking about...I didn't have to read this to know it though. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2522
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 17:48:36 -
[222] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: this, so much.
it shouldn't be designed to be unprofitable to gank with 3 marauders/pirate battleships inside it.
unprofitable to gank with 3 unfit megathrons? sure, but not 3 unfit vindicators.
Sure, it should have enough tank to be unprofitable to gank while carrying unfit megathrons in Niarja. It's role necessitates traveling from one side of hisec to the other. Going through 0.5 systems (like Niarja) is a necessary part of that role, ergo it should have sufficient tank to do the job of carrying the unfit megathrons throughout hisec. |
Masao Kurata
Z List
126
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:50:12 -
[223] - Quote
In addition to everything I've said I'd like to add that I would be happy to use one or at least know a friend who has one with the current stats. In fact I'm a little concerned that it might already be OP on the basis of making switching to a battleship when not aggressed too easy (then again command ships are pretty powerful so it might not be that big a deal). |
Masao Kurata
Z List
126
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:52:36 -
[224] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Dave Stark wrote: this, so much.
it shouldn't be designed to be unprofitable to gank with 3 marauders/pirate battleships inside it.
unprofitable to gank with 3 unfit megathrons? sure, but not 3 unfit vindicators.
Sure, it should have enough tank to be unprofitable to gank while carrying unfit megathrons in Niarja. It's role necessitates traveling from one side of hisec to the other. Going through 0.5 systems (like Niarja) is a necessary part of that role, ergo it should have sufficient tank to do the job of carrying the unfit megathrons throughout hisec.
It already does, properly fitted this has over 400k EHP while at the same time getting 10s warps with a MWD. I would be very comfortable moving three T2 fitted battleships without an escort with those stats and if you aren't, that sounds like a problem for a psychiatrist. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24672
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:54:25 -
[225] - Quote
Just over 400k EHP with full tank and enough space to carry 4 BS should hit the sweet spot. That way, you can carry a lot of cheap ships quickly (speed fit) or a couple of expensive ships somewhat safely (tank fit) and not have the whole thing be absurd. If the agility bonus can push it down to below the standard 10s for and MWD fit, then that's the bonus it should have, if not, it's pretty pointless GÇö give it warp speed instead.
Hideously expensive meta-bajillion mods should travel separately in a BR regardless, so that's not even a factor.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
32
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:54:46 -
[226] - Quote
IDEA why not have the expander rigs give its bonus to the ship hanger. if you want to hold more ships give up some rig slots. |
Ezra Endashi
LightningStrikesTwice Elemental Tide
10
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:55:10 -
[227] - Quote
I like it so far! Any pictures? |
Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
138
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:58:22 -
[228] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Praal wrote: Ask all the "insta"-align ceptors that get killed in nullsec how that works out for safety.
how does this work? instawarping means you cant lock it regardless of your scan res, leaving smartbombs as only option at your disposal to kill them. Without having the nitty-gritty details, it deals with ping time. Those who are close to the servers (aka, Londoners) are able to beat the clock under specific conditions (such as keeping their points hot while furiously mashing their ships overview after seeing a gate flash or being given advanced notice from a scout).
I don't have the fullest details available, unfortunately. There was a post either on the EVEO forums or on Reddit some months back where someone went through the numbers and showed that to have a truly-unlockable ship, you have to be below something like 1.75 seconds for your align (not sure on the exact numbers) and not be using an y iStabs (meaning there are very, very few ships that can actually accomplish this).
In my own experiences, looking at various 'insta-warping' fits that show up on the killboards, a lot of people seem to forget that they don't have all skills at V when fitting up their ships, so while their fit may have 1.9 seconds to align at all V's, their own skills are above the 2-second threshold.
All in all, it's pretty uncommon. At least personally, I do a lot of travel through lowsec in a 1.92-second-align Atron, and I've only ever been caught once (negated by having a stab fit, fortunately).
Mind you, all of this is what I could remember from the aforementioned thread. I may well be remembering it incorrectly, so if someone either has a link to the thread in question or remembers it more clearly, by all means, please do correct me!
-áTalk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.
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Jian Mira
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:59:18 -
[229] - Quote
Why No Drones???????
A Orca has Drones... Don't see any uses for this ship
Only a ideat would fly this ship with a ship inside it! |
Maul555
Enso Corp
421
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:00:34 -
[230] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?
And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me.
Wow!!! |
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Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
162
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:01:43 -
[231] - Quote
Yes, after reading some posts, please removed the jump fatigue reduction. Can't have null guys Titan bridging these things everywhere. These are high sec ships, or ships to be used locally in deep blue space like freighters are used in null (with the exception of their moving gigantic system upgrades around by Titan bridging - something that needs to change). And same goes for a T2 version for moving caps that I suggested a few posts back.
Actually, these things should have a role penalty that makes them generate 10 times MORE fatigue. Especially for any future version that might move capital ships - lore reason would be that if a ship is cyno'd that contains active jump/gate drives, the space-time continuum gets messed up or something. Kinda like John Malkovich going through his own portal. |
Rockstede
30plus Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
39
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:01:49 -
[232] - Quote
Seeing as these are fitted ships or that is to say, fully operational ships. Is it not feasible to assume that the defensive capabilities of the ships onboard could be added to the Bowheads systems?
By this I mean that a Bowhead with 3 x incursion fitted pirate battleships would be harder to kill than the same ship with 3 fitted Ravens.
Perhaps the HP of the Bowhead could be set quite low to start with and then cumulated with the ships it has stored, upto some theoretical maximum? |
TerminalSamurai Sunji
Bureau of Explosions
2
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:03:44 -
[233] - Quote
Valtrinor wrote:NOTE: I say the following not in this character's current role as a nullsec pilot, but as someone who also does highsec logistics and has done many different things in highsec, lowsec, and wormhole space as well. Keep that in mind for my comments to fully make sense, I'm not primarily talking about this in a nullsec context!So let me get this straight...
- Less HP than an Orca (10,750 / 6,900 / 46,000)
- 2.6x the mass of an Orca (250,000,000 kg) and 5.8x the sig radius
- Can fit an absolute maximum of 3 battleships, the only class it's actually needed for at current.
- No High slot(s) to counteract any of the Orca comparison, which the Orca has highs
- Less HP than any single ship which actually justifies the use of this ship in moving
Yeah, I'll pass. This looks like a giant blinking neon "GANK ME" sign with two strobe lights on top, and nothing to make that risk worthwhile. Please tell me it's meant to troll the entire community? That's pretty much how it comes across.
I completely agree, if CCP is going to take the time to add a new ship and new skills to go along with that ship, at least take the time to think this through. Your asking for people to pay for more than an orca and get less tank and utility (no cloaking high) than an orca. Not really sure where the logic is. Also the fact that my hauling toon will have yet another reason to train ORE skills is beyond me. With the advent of ships actually dropping from this thing it's way to gank efficient to be used. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
971
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:07:10 -
[234] - Quote
Paynus Maiassus wrote:Yes, after reading some posts, please removed the jump fatigue reduction. Can't have null guys Titan bridging these things everywhere. These are high sec ships, or ships to be used locally in deep blue space like freighters are used in null (with the exception of their moving gigantic system upgrades around by Titan bridging - something that needs to change). And same goes for a T2 version for moving caps that I suggested a few posts back.
Actually, these things should have a role penalty that makes them generate 10 times MORE fatigue. Especially for any future version that might move capital ships - lore reason would be that if a ship is cyno'd that contains cyno capable ships, the space-time continuum gets messed up or something. Kinda like John Malkovich going through his own portal.
But the remaining stats on the Bowhead Using chains of titans to bridge things around post-Phoebe is impractical, because the titans themselves are subject to fatigue and cannot be rapidly redeployed to handle the very multi-front combat you allude to in your post. Pre-positioning titans is also infeasible due to the high cost and the fact that account sharing is forbidden under the Eve: Online Terms of Service.
Not to mention, interceptors + jump freighters are far more efficient at the job. Why does everyone forget about jump freighters and interceptors? While they are a thing, none of these complicated, fatigue-beating vignettes work.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
111
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:07:32 -
[235] - Quote
Belligerent Undesirable wrote:Change the speed bonus to 4% shield resist per level and give it +1 mid
Indeed, as CCP Rise said on #1, this ship has a very clear intended role: CCP Rise wrote:There isn't much else to say other than that this ship is intended for a specific niche: high-sec transport of fitted/insured ships.
And for all its known how soam pirates like to talos down some shinny fitten vindicators of them incursionbears XD
So it'd make perfect sense.
Besides, "travel speed" means sublight engine... which is totally stupid, because if someone is autopiloting this in bearsec it deserves to be ganked, but like, bigtime XD
Because tities .
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Masao Kurata
Z List
126
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:10:24 -
[236] - Quote
TerminalSamurai Sunji wrote: Your asking for people to pay for more than an orca and get less tank ...
If by "less" you mean "more". The extra low lets you fit an extra bulkhead, giving you almost the same amount of hull while having more shield and armor HP.
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
906
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:14:37 -
[237] - Quote
Querns wrote:Slevin-Kelevra wrote: I am talking about null sec jump bridges mate. With the 90% reduction you can move your whole fleet across the map using jump bridges, and gain very little fatigue doing so.
This is a nice hail mary, but it falls flat for the same reasons that TRAVEL INDUSTRIALS fall flat GÇö namely, bubbles exist, jump freighters exist, and jump bridges are still one per system. Besides, why wouldn't one salivate at the prospect of fleets of Bowheads traveling through space, ready to be dragged and summarily executed? Wouldn't one want the reasons for these ships to undock in 0.0 to be increased, not strangled?
There are no bubbles on a titan bridge route.
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HK -56
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:14:53 -
[238] - Quote
Am I the only capsuleer that doesn't like seeing yet another new skill being introduced that affects just a single thing? |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
162
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:15:16 -
[239] - Quote
Querns wrote:Paynus Maiassus wrote:Yes, after reading some posts, please removed the jump fatigue reduction. Can't have null guys Titan bridging these things everywhere. These are high sec ships, or ships to be used locally in deep blue space like freighters are used in null (with the exception of their moving gigantic system upgrades around by Titan bridging - something that needs to change). And same goes for a T2 version for moving caps that I suggested a few posts back.
Actually, these things should have a role penalty that makes them generate 10 times MORE fatigue. Especially for any future version that might move capital ships - lore reason would be that if a ship is cyno'd that contains cyno capable ships, the space-time continuum gets messed up or something. Kinda like John Malkovich going through his own portal.
But the remaining stats on the Bowhead Using chains of titans to bridge things around post-Phoebe is impractical, because the titans themselves are subject to fatigue and cannot be rapidly redeployed to handle the very multi-front combat you allude to in your post. Pre-positioning titans is also infeasible due to the high cost and the fact that account sharing is forbidden under the Eve: Online Terms of Service. Not to mention, interceptors + jump freighters are far more efficient at the job. Why does everyone forget about jump freighters and interceptors? While they are a thing, none of these complicated, fatigue-beating vignettes work.
Yes, my knowledge about Titan bridging logistics operations post-Phoebe is limited as I haven't been in proximity to it since the changes and have not thought about it deeply. However, I still think it is worthwhile to remove the fatigue bonus and potentially implement a fatigue nerf just to completely cement these things outside the realm of cyno operations and prevent some niche use that some creative players could potentially make use of. Also if the game evolves and there are changes to jumping with future updates. For instance if CCP develops some sort of bridging ship other than Titans in order to improve some other aspect of the game at some point, it will already be established that bridging is just something you don't do with this ship, and avoiding the need for a future nerf that may frustrate players. Better to implement a meaningless penalty now so it's set in everybody's mind that you just don't bridge this thing and from the beginning it will be excluded from anything CCP may want to do with bridging in the future. |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
232
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:17:52 -
[240] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Darirol wrote:why do all those industrial ships have a speed bonus? Because travel speed is one of the most important characteristics for haulers. Capacity, gank resilience and travel speed are basically it.
Given the current highsec meta of "GANK ALL THE THINGS", I think many people, myself inluded, see a raw speed bonus as a waste. With Bumper Cars Online, a speed bonus is less than useless - it's actually harmful since it increases the unmodified time it takes you to get into warp.
Please consider an agility or (!) hull resistance bonus modifier per level.
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
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