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Tranquility will be patched on Thurs, 31 August from 0800 to 1500 GMT

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:19:00 - [391] Originally by: Tuxford However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was. Good answer, thanks for that. One down (if with fingers crossed), two to go... Originally by: Tuxford It was really news to me that this "wasn't a bug" until this morning so I've been talking to other devs and bughunters about this. That's ... worrying. Kind of implies the patch notes went out without first being checked over by the relevant devs? That surely can't be a good idea?
Vegetate Minmatar Darkness Theory	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:20:00 - [392] It took me just over 6 days to copy & load up 8 regions in my P&P and that was copying 30 at a time.. how many MONTHS will it take me to copy the 8 regions for my other 4 characters? Honestly copying bm's is painful anyway - why make it more so? cant you make it a 50 limit? 5 is just wasting peoples precious time..
Eron Lygera Gallente Sharded Awareness	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:22:00 - [393] Originally by: Tuxford About the cloaking issue ...It was really news to me that this "wasn't a bug" until this morning so I've been talking to other devs and bughunters about this. Communication FTW. ;-) Seriously, it aint good as it is now. The worst however - by far - is the jump qeues. Its fine for Jita, but not for OH-WTF in no mans land. With love Eron Ps. Dont nerf WCS!
Kusotarre Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:23:00 - [394] Originally by: Tuxford About the cloaking issue. There has been a little in house misunderstanding. The problem is that the way cloaking works now is that if you are being targetted but aren't locked you can cloak but the lock attempt isn't broken so when you're locked you get uncloaked but there is a bug where the uncloaking visual effect isn't performed so you happily think you're still cloaked. The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was. I don't really know when that will happen though. It was really news to me that this "wasn't a bug" until this morning so I've been talking to other devs and bughunters about this. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. I appreciate the response, but when it comes down to it: i) Cov ops ships of both types are broken. ii) There is no set time of restoration. This is still the worst patch ever, your post does nothing to change that. People were not upset because they didn't know what the patchnote meant, they were upset because they feared you would say what you just did.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:23:00 - [395] Originally by: Vegetate It took me just over 6 days to copy & load up 8 regions in my P&P and that was copying 30 at a time.. how many MONTHS will it take me to copy the 8 regions for my other 4 characters? Honestly copying bm's is painful anyway - why make it more so? cant you make it a 50 limit? 5 is just wasting peoples precious time.. I think CCP would rather waste someones time then everyone server resources. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:25:00 - [396] Originally by: Kusotarre People were not upset because they didn't know what the patchnote meant, they were upset because they feared you would say what you just did. No they where upset because they thought cov ops would be permanently ruined. Now that we know its just a temp thing till the next patch we can live with it. In the mean time you can prolly get cov ops losses refunded by the GMs, since this is a bug after all. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Ann Mari Amarr Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:29:00 - [397] I posted a Suggestion here, but I'd like to ask if a simple version van be done sooner. Galaxy map filter: White systems, all gates in system not currently queueing Red systems, some gates in system currently queueing ///End "There can be no justice, if rules are absolute" "The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
Bermag Point-Zero	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:29:00 - [398] Edited by: Bermag on 30/08/2006 10:32:55 Some comments: - I don't see the cloak "fix" as a permanent change and only a partly fix for the problem. I am pretty sure this will be fixed. However we can't wait that logn for this to be fixed. Should be given a very high priority. - Jump que: I see the changes in this patch a bit different (but how knows notes are pretty vagie). The way I understand is that there will be less queues used and that they have raised the treshold for when a queue is used. Maybe it was at a lot lower level now so even if queues are in place we might see it a lot less frequent. - BM copying. I don't understand why a fix like this has to be hotfixed. BMs has been in game for a long time so why start changing it in a hot-fix? Also I have never understand why BMs are so slow and take that much processing power. I smell a really bad database design to be honest. Also was not Dragon going to solve a lot of performace issues? --- Ah, I wrote this before Tux posted. If I udnerstand it then the cloakign change is what I expected, something that will be fixed ASAP.
Elmicker Gallente Unscoped Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:30:00 - [399] Edited by: Elmicker on 30/08/2006 10:31:33 Fantastic. So now, as a new alliance consolidating our first 0.0 space, we have to copy instas for a 33 jump pipe 5 at a time, and instas for the region at 517 BMs, 5 at a time. That's me clicking, shift clicking and then shift dragging one hundred and four times. Yes, this reallyhelps everyone. Remove instas, add a jump to distance accuracy skill, job done. Oh and also, i have to move freighters down this 33-jump pipe, likely crawling with any number of gank squads with no covert ops scout backup, when we used to have 2 covert ops behind and 2 ahead. Way to ******* nerf the 0.0 economy, CCP. I'd also like my like month's training for cov. ops back aswell so i can train for interceptors and interdictors to gank the opposing cov. ops that are also totally useless. Ahh yes, and to top it all off this massive blob that i've gotten together to escort said freighter, as sheer force is now the only way without covert ops backup, cant actually move as one force anymore. Even though i'm only a 4 month player, i have to wonder whether my 2 accounts will still exist as of next month.
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:30:00 - [400] Originally by: Sharcy When you do large fleetbattles you complain of lag and scream that the game is unplayable. When they do something about the lag (caused by node overload, yes), you complain that you "can't all get in at once". Well guess what, I find the queue system completely logical, both from a technical point of view, as well as "in character". If stargates really existed, it would make perfect sense that they can handle only so much traffic at once. Oh don't be ridiculous! Sure, a traffic management system based on a gate's having a maximum number of jumps per minute or minimum interval between jumps might "make sense in character" but one which arbitrarily restricts a gate's traffic because of what's happening in station a dozen systems away? It's like a New York airport delaying flights because there is traffic congestion in central London! Perfect sense? I think not.

Marcus Kartum	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:31:00 - [401] Originally by: Arvo Henderson Edited by: Arvo Henderson on 30/08/2006 09:53:15 /me dons amiantum suit After thinking a bit about the cloak "changes" to be honest, I will be happy if the devs have the balls to keep that change, tbh. We all have seen more than once how cloakers, in the hands of a pilot with half a brain, were able to get through almost any gatecamp one could think of. It was very very frustrating. In fact, it was too hard to get a cloaking ship: with this change, now they have an "Achilles Heel" that makes them vulnerable, so careful cov ops pilots will have to be very alert when they get uncloaked (either by jumping through a gate, or by other means). Just check killboards, and get some numbers about covops ships being busted, and compare them with other ships numbers. Fitting stabs/nanofibers/ecm/dampeners in a cloaking ship will now be something anybody sensible should think of. Some complains I've seen in this thread like the one saying "now a long BS cycle won't allow me to cloak", are just crap. First, even with two sensor boosters and Signature Analysis V, you'll have your good 5 seconds to align to a planet/moon/SS and warp. Second, once you warp, you can warp back to the gate at a good distance cloaked. What do u mean by "too hard"? You expect that ship that has no guns, no resists, no speed or no tank has to be easy to kill? Not to mention about ridiculous fittings prices? Covert ops has to be hard to kill, because its hard to skill for it, hard to get one and hard to fly one! If not, it will become another tiny, useless frigate, even without weapon. Yay! Another great cannon fodder ship!
Marcus Kartum	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:35:00 - [402] Originally by: Arvo Henderson Edited by: Arvo Henderson on 30/08/2006 09:53:15 /me dons amiantum suit After thinking a bit about the cloak "changes" to be honest, I will be happy if the devs have the balls to keep that change, tbh. We all have seen more than once how cloakers, in the hands of a pilot with half a brain, were able to get through almost any gatecamp one could think of. It was very very frustrating. In fact, it was too hard to get a cloaking ship: with this change, now they have an "Achilles Heel" that makes them vulnerable, so careful cov ops pilots will have to be very alert when they get uncloaked (either by jumping through a gate, or by other means). Just check killboards, and get some numbers about covops ships being busted, and compare them with other ships numbers. Fitting stabs/nanofibers/ecm/dampeners in a cloaking ship will now be something anybody sensible should think of. Some complains I've seen in this thread like the one saying "now a long BS cycle won't allow me to cloak", are just crap. First, even with two sensor boosters and Signature Analysis V, you'll have your good 5 seconds to align to a planet/moon/SS and warp. Second, once you warp, you can warp back to the gate at a good distance cloaked. What do u mean by "too hard"? You expect that ship that has no guns, no resists, no speed or no tank has to be easy to kill? Not to mention about ridiculous fittings prices? Covert ops has to be hard to kill, because its hard to skill for it, hard to get one and hard to fly one! If not, it will become another tiny, useless frigate, even without weapon. Yay! Another great cannon fodder ship! Ahh, btw, give me my covert back!!!!
Arvo Henderson Draconis Navitas Aeterna Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:36:00 - [403] Still nobody answers the points I made above... if you can't find it, use www.eve-search.com. It works wonders.
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:36:00 - [404] Originally by: Kusotarre This patch will cripple PVP excursions to enemy space, where you need bookmarks. I've got an mwd even on my tech-2 sniper tempest and can operate to some degree in a gang without instas. - Make warp-to 5km as a compromise. - Maybe splitting sensor-boosters in two different mods, one that increases primarily locking range and one that increases primarily scan resolution is also a good idea to nerf fast-locking snipers a bit. - Implement a mod that hinders people from jumping through a gate, something with range like scampler or warp disruptor. That should compensate for the closer warp-in. In the end this could lead to more combat, less running, less snipe ganking. (But if sensor-boosters get changed, then there needs to be a look into scan resolution and locking range of different BS and also in remote sensor boosters, not that the rokh pwns them all by highest scan res, locking range and optimal, which frees up valuable slots and might be imba) -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Pestillence Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:40:00 - [405] Originally by: El'Tar its good to hear.. Now: How do u plan on balancing BM's? Considering that the price is going to amazing heights (maybe 30m a region?) no n00b can afford it... All the vets will have a HUGE advantage!. It just confuses me. Tux is the ship man, not the bm / queue man.
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:42:00 - [406] Oveur replies to us! RE petition thread
Callistus Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:43:00 - [407] Edited by: Callistus on 30/08/2006 10:43:59 Oveur said here he has a blog waiting to be published which should answer our questions. edit: gah, beaten! -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Sharcy Sonnema	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:45:00 - [408] Originally by: Tuxford Nobody told me Originally by: Tuxford I wasn't relevant Erm... Are you sure you still work at CCP? -- Sonnema is recruiting!
Seidr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:45:00 - [409] Originally by: El'Tar Originally by: Tuxford About the cloaking issue. There has been a little in house misunderstanding. The problem is that the way cloaking works now is that if you are being targetted but aren't locked you can cloak but the lock attempt isn't broken so when you're locked you get uncloaked but there is a bug where the uncloaking visual effect isn't performed so you happily think you're still cloaked. The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was. I don't really know when that will happen though. It was really news to me that this "wasn't a bug" until this morning so I've been talking to other devs and bughunters about this. its good to hear.. Now: How do u plan on balancing BM's? Considering that the price is going to amazing heights (maybe 30m a region?) no n00b can afford it... All the vets will have a HUGE advantage!. It just confuses me. Exactly my feelings on the current situation, the reply to the cloaking is appreciated but seriously, if you shift the balance of power in a game you need one hell of a counter-balance to even things out. If instas are to go the way of the dinosaur then a replacement surely should be on the table. There have been countless suggestions about a replacement in this thread which have all been put forward in a smooth, and thought out manner. Jump drive calibration out of all of them sounds like the most plausible, and limiting the warp to 0km option to non-autopilot flight is yet another decent suggestion. 2isk
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:46:00 - [410] Originally by: Tuxford About the cloaking issue. There has been a little in house misunderstanding. The problem is that the way cloaking works now is that if you are being targetted but aren't locked you can cloak but the lock attempt isn't broken so when you're locked you get uncloaked but there is a bug where the uncloaking visual effect isn't performed so you happily think you're still cloaked. The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was. I don't really know when that will happen though. It was really news to me that this "wasn't a bug" until this morning so I've been talking to other devs and bughunters about this. Maybe put this in a blog or something so it isnt missed so easily. The reactions to this bug has been... above average. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:48:00 - [411] Originally by: Lemoning Lemming Edited by: Lemoning Lemming on 30/08/2006 08:46:38 I find the fact that Jump Queues are going to be retained absolutely appalling. This is one of the worst things you have ever done to your customers and you are intending on continuing with it is very dissapointing in the face of so much feedback against it. The queues are part of a problem that has no good solution. Yes, there's the problem of "I got ganked while queueing", but there's the other side of it too - the "I got ganked due to lag from too many people jumping in". You're going to inconvenience less people by holding new arrivals in a queue than by letting them jump in and cause lag for the whole node-full of people. Originally by: Kusotarre It's not that "a lot of people are very unhappy" about these changes, it's that everyone is unhappy with them. The only people I've seen here who think this is a good thing are 2 week old nublets in Brutor Tribe, and obvious trolls. Not a single long time player that I know wants these changes. I like the intended changes, and am using my brain enough to realise the difference between a partial bugfix and a new feature. I am neither a 2 week old nublet, nor a troll. You do not know every single long time player in the game. I's doubtful you even know a majority of them. Originally by: Chewan Mesa This absolutely doesnt make any sense "in-character" nor OOC. How do you justify waiting 2mins to jump into an empty 0.0 system just because it has the bad luck on being on a node with Jita? How do you justify 20 people losing their ships because a hostile fleet ganked them as they couldnt jump? How do you justify letting 20 people jump, if it's going to cause massive problems for 600+ players on the destination node, inlcuding the 20 that just jumped? Originally by: coldplasma So what about BM's? What about this horrendous jump queue? You guys are just gonna blot out the communities say on this and go ahead with these ridiculous game-breaking features? Tux works on ships&modules, therefore, he knows about ships&modules, and answers questions about...you guessed it, ships&modules. Would you rather they gave answers as and when they have them, or make you wait all week until they've got a response to every possible question under the sun? Originally by: Kusotarre The solution to Eve's lag problem cannot be, as you are suggesting, to introduce a system which is more insufferable than the lag was. What it probably comes down to is that CCP needs to fork out the money to buy more hardware. There is clearly too much load for too few nodes. Large alliance fights are already more than capable of maxing an entire node on it's own, so even having one node per system wouldn't solve the problem. CCP have pretty much the fastest blades current available, so that's out too. Any more bright ideas ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:50:00 - [412] Originally by: Ann Mari I posted a Suggestion here, but I'd like to ask if a simple version van be done sooner. Galaxy map filter: White systems, all gates in system not currently queueing Red systems, some gates in system currently queueing Have you tried the "traffic advisories" overlay? Seems to be showing queue lengths, not sure how accurate it is though. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:50:00 - [413] Glad to know this Cov Op buisness was a mistake. Now for the other issues... ------------------ CEO of TKI
Arvo Henderson Draconis Navitas Aeterna Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:50:00 - [414] Edited by: Arvo Henderson on 30/08/2006 10:51:30 Originally by: Marcus Kartum Originally by: Arvo Henderson snip What do u mean by "too hard"? You expect that ship that has no guns, no resists, no speed or no tank has to be easy to kill? Not to mention about ridiculous fittings prices? Covert ops has to be hard to kill, because its hard to skill for it, hard to get one and hard to fly one! If not, it will become another tiny, useless frigate, even without weapon. Yay! Another great cannon fodder ship! Ahh, btw, give me my covert back!!!! Thanks for answering mate. I mean "too hard", as in "can't shoot unless being lucky". And stuff you can't shoot at unless you get very lucky is stuff that hardly gets destroyed. About the cloak prices: there are several threads in these forums about this particular issue and the general T2 issue. My opinion on the subject (but this is off-topic): the supply chain for cov ops cloaks being something like this Moon Materials + T1 cloak + T2 components + T1/2 cloak + more T2 components + T2 cloak + resellers and given that every middle man involved in it wants to get its 50% profit cut, you'll be having expensive stuff until the hell frozes. I hope that invention/more bpo seeding will help to introduce sanity to this. But it will only help those corps/alliances that cooperate to get the resources needed to obtain their own blueprints, and thus ensure build-cost supply for their members. Solo players won't be helped by invention at all.
Vegetate Minmatar Darkness Theory	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:51:00 - [415] I just dont understand. copying bm's 5 at a time is pointless... it would take a full day to copy a full region.. and not everyone has oodles of time, ie some people actually work in real life.. and their playing time is a precious commodity.. come on dev's be reasonable.. 20-30-50 at a time please.. but not 5
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:51:00 - [416] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Tuxford About the cloaking issue. There has been a little in house misunderstanding. The problem is that the way cloaking works now is that if you are being targetted but aren't locked you can cloak but the lock attempt isn't broken so when you're locked you get uncloaked but there is a bug where the uncloaking visual effect isn't performed so you happily think you're still cloaked. The fix in the patch notes and the one Kieron mentioned fixes the issue of not seeing you uncloak. However cloaks didn't use to work this way, if nobody had you locked when you cloaked, all locking attempts were broken and you stayed happily cloaked. That is the way it supposed to work and we'll be restoring it back the way it was. I don't really know when that will happen though. It was really news to me that this "wasn't a bug" until this morning so I've been talking to other devs and bughunters about this. Maybe put this in a blog or something so it isnt missed so easily. The reactions to this bug has been... above average. :) I missed that also! thanks for quoting it.
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:56:00 - [417] Devs, come on now. What on earth is going on with your thinking. First we have freighters dropping cans when they get popped but because you cant control macro miners(or wont) freighters cant pick up cans or drop. Now we are looking at the end of the Recon because of this rediculous "what cloaking should have been" statement. Could this be because you guys only pvp and are tired of a stealth ship using its ability? Get real and stop being stupid.
kruspathuul	Posted - 2006.08.30 10:59:00 - [418] Originally by: Vegetate I just dont understand. copying bm's 5 at a time is pointless... it would take a full day to copy a full region.. and not everyone has oodles of time, ie some people actually work in real life.. and their playing time is a precious commodity.. come on dev's be reasonable.. 20-30-50 at a time please.. but not 5 You know, your supposed to get out there and make your own instas. Good call CCP, nerf those 'iBoughtInstasAndWon' ppl
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.30 11:00:00 - [419] Originally by: Vegetate I just dont understand. copying bm's 5 at a time is pointless... it would take a full day to copy a full region.. and not everyone has oodles of time, ie some people actually work in real life.. and their playing time is a precious commodity.. come on dev's be reasonable.. 20-30-50 at a time please.. but not 5 The bookmark thing is because a couple of alliance's perfected the art of the invincible pos, and the invincible lag gatecamp. So insted of bookmarks, they will start dumping out thousands of drones, small secure cans (each with 1000 ammo all carefull split into 1 stack each etc) to acheive the same effect. The end result is that the problem is not solved - it is transfered. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Kerfira	Posted - 2006.08.30 11:01:00 - [420] Originally by: Matthew The queues are part of a problem that has no good solution. Yes, there's the problem of "I got ganked while queueing", but there's the other side of it too - the "I got ganked due to lag from too many people jumping in". You're going to inconvenience less people by holding new arrivals in a queue than by letting them jump in and cause lag for the whole node-full of people. There is a big difference between these two: Fleet jumping into other fleet + lag = Everyone is lagged, meaning a battle that's more or less evenly balanced. Fleet jumping into other fleet + jump queue = One ship jump in.... Pop.... Another ship jump in.... Pop... etc. Old system was WAY better. At least it made it possible to have fleet engagements with jump-ins. With the new system not many fleet commanders will do so.



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