Quote:

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# If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs.

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Quote:

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The missing warping sound effect has returned.

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Quote:

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* If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs.
* Bookmark copying is now limited to 5 bookmarks at a time. Attempting to copy more than 5 bookmarks will result in only 5 being copied.

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Originally by: Spider Kauphman

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Originally by: Patch Notes

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* If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs.
* Bookmark copying is now limited to 5 bookmarks at a time. Attempting to copy more than 5 bookmarks will result in only 5 being copied.

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What what?

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Quote:

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The jump queue for systems will only occur if the system in question is on a node using 95% or more CPU. This has previously been hotfixed on TQ.

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Originally by: Abdalion

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Originally by: Jebidus Skari

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What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?

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Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.

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Originally by: kieron

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Originally by: Spider Kauphman

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Originally by: Patch Notes

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* If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs.
* Bookmark copying is now limited to 5 bookmarks at a time. Attempting to copy more than 5 bookmarks will result in only 5 being copied.

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What what?

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The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future.

The limitation on bookmark copying is to prevent some players from exploiting game mechanics to lag opponents or crash nodes by copying insane amounts of bookmarks.

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Originally by: Suvetar

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Please, be constructive.

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Originally by: kieron

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The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future.

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Originally by: kieron

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The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future.

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Quote:

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I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-

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Originally by: kieron

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The limitation on bookmark copying is to prevent some players from exploiting game mechanics to lag opponents or crash nodes by copying insane amounts of bookmarks.

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Originally by: kieron

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The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future.

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Originally by: Gorehound

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In order to be constructive, I suggest tabasco be included in this patch to reduce the weakness of this sauce.

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Originally by: kieron

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Originally by: Spider Kauphman

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Originally by: Patch Notes

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* If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs.
* Bookmark copying is now limited to 5 bookmarks at a time. Attempting to copy more than 5 bookmarks will result in only 5 being copied.

---

What what?

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The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future.

The limitation on bookmark copying is to prevent some players from exploiting game mechanics to lag opponents or crash nodes by copying insane amounts of bookmarks.

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Originally by: Caerleus

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With the cloaking, is that returning to the previous expected behaviour, that is, if you cloak whilst 'being' locked then you cloak, but if you try to cloak whilst locked you don't? The statement in the patch notes is as clear as mud.

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Originally by: Idara

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We are.

Nerfing instas like this is not going to be good for anybody.

Nerfing Covops without providing the entire fix right away is not good for anybody.

Not changing the system queues is not good for anybody.

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Originally by: Suvetar

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I meant to refer to the posts only saying "What?" and "Why?" ... apologies for the confusion.

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Originally by: kieron

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The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future.

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Originally by: kieron

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Originally by: Patch Notes

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* If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs.

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The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future.

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Originally by: Kenz Rider

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"If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs."

I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions too quickly because the above sentence conveys almost no meaning to me. Everyone is assuming that a lock can occur after the cloak is activated, but I don't see how we can assume that from the above statement.

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Originally by: Spyder1226

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"The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future."

Ok this is a major problem I have, Covert ops ships are very weak... the only thing keeping them alive was the ability to cloak before people had a chance to lock them. Why even bother to put cloaking devices on ships when you are warping from gate to gate if when you are cloaking you can be decloaked instantly and killed?

IMHO The decision to make covert ops cloaks so useless is not something I would make permanent. Covert ops in this latest patch is practically useless. Please guys speak out and do something about this.

I have talked with a number of my corpmates and friends that play eve and they think that this will completely ruin the eve-online gameplay for those who choose to specialize in covert ops, or recon ships.

Thank you for hearing my opinion and I encourage all of you to make the same on this thread.

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Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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The irritating thing is that this behaviour was listed as a bug in "known issues" for the last patch.

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Originally by: Idara

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No, you're just nerfing instas without actually saying you're nerfing instas and introducing something to make it bearable.

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Originally by: Kenz Rider

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"If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs."

I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions too quickly because the above sentence conveys almost no meaning to me. Everyone is assuming that a lock can occur after the cloak is activated, but I don't see how we can assume that from the above statement.

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

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Originally by: Coran Ordus

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Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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The irritating thing is that this behaviour was listed as a bug in "known issues" for the last patch.

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I think your interpretation was right, I can't imagine how anything else makes much sense.

And the known issue was that for the cov-ops pilot, it looked to them like they were still graphically cloaked, when they weren't. At least that's how I read it.

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Originally by: Vandervecken Smith

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A small survey was done here:
http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=4&page=7
about whether people play with soound on or off.
According to the survey, 44% of the time people turned off their sounds because of the warping noise.
When the warping noise was gone I turned my sound on for the first time in almost a year, and I enjoyed it. Now the warping noise is coming back, it's back to quiet Eve.
At least give us an option to remove that one sound!

And not to mention the kick in the teeth for Cov Ops, and the insta stealth nerf.
I recommend anyone interested in real insta solutions look here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=385178
The first real solution in a long time.

Rabble rabble

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Originally by: Imode

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Originally by: Kenz Rider

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"If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs."

I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions too quickly because the above sentence conveys almost no meaning to me. Everyone is assuming that a lock can occur after the cloak is activated, but I don't see how we can assume that from the above statement.

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And even if it does, big deal?

Cov ops frigates are usually fast enough to warp off from a gate on jump in without getting scrambled, cloak or no cloak.

If you happen to get uncloaked as you come out of warp, then you should be screwed anyway :P

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

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Quote:

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I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-

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Originally by: kieron

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If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

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Originally by: Chewan Mesa

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

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QFT.

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Originally by: clone 1

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

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Quoted as this needs a reply. I really hope CCP understands the importance on the outcome of this patch, because nearly everyone posting here certainly does.

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Originally by: Malinaria

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More ships to come with kali heh ?
YES but :
- 4x Stealth bomber
- 4x covert ops
- 4x recon cruisers
....
Woot ! 12 ships less, place for new ships i guess (memery shortage and stuff..

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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er, 5 bookmarks at a time? will it still take 5 minutes each?

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Originally by: Cmdr Sy

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EDIT: Essentially it would force covert pilots to warp the hell out immediately after a jump and try returning cloaked later, rather than remain at the gate and slowboat clear.

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Originally by: PanzerGrenadier

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Originally by: clone 1

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Quoted as this needs a reply. I really hope CCP understands the importance on the outcome of this patch, because nearly everyone posting here certainly does.

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I hate to make a post like this with no content, but to be honest this post above explains everything that I have a problem with in this patch. Prompt reply would be greatly appriciated.

Regards, PG

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Originally by: Tobias Sjodin

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CLARIFICATIONS PLEASE! DEVS!


Just listen to the feedback,

you claim you listen to your players.

LISTEN!

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Originally by: lizen

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Edited by: lizen on 29/08/2006 21:49:44
instas just seem like such a pain for everyone, all the time.

why not make it so you can warp to 2km of stationary objects, and leave the min warp distance at 15km for mobile objects?

edit : and make the min warp distance for autopilot be 15km still, so that ppl can't harmlessly autopilot through 0.0

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Originally by: Kazoki Zocore

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Edited by: Kazoki Zocore on 29/08/2006 22:03:17
To everyone that says that Cov Ops is now broken: They are still fixing it!

This first fix is simply a graphical fix to the already existing bug. In build 4557, if a Cov Ops was being locked and cloaked, he was already locked. The secondary problem this caused is that the player doing the cloaking had no idea because of a graphical bug. In build 4560, the main bug still exists, but now pilots will know that they are not cloaked. That is all that is changing.

As to BM copying requiring a person actually doing more work: Huzzah!

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Originally by: Kazoki Zocore

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Edited by: Kazoki Zocore on 29/08/2006 22:03:17
To everyone that says that Cov Ops is now broken: They are still fixing it!

This first fix is simply a graphical fix to the already existing bug. In build 4557, if a Cov Ops was being locked and cloaked, he was already locked. The secondary problem this caused is that the player doing the cloaking had no idea because of a graphical bug. In build 4560, the main bug still exists, but now pilots will know that they are not cloaked. That is all that is changing.

As to BM copying requiring a person actually doing more work: Huzzah!

---

Originally by: Kazoki Zocore

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Edited by: Kazoki Zocore on 29/08/2006 22:03:17
To everyone that says that Cov Ops is now broken: They are still fixing it!

This first fix is simply a graphical fix to the already existing bug. In build 4557, if a Cov Ops was being locked and cloaked, he was already locked. The secondary problem this caused is that the player doing the cloaking had no idea because of a graphical bug. In build 4560, the main bug still exists, but now pilots will know that they are not cloaked. That is all that is changing.

As to BM copying requiring a person actually doing more work: Huzzah!

---

Originally by: Kazoki Zocore

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Edited by: Kazoki Zocore on 29/08/2006 22:03:17
To everyone that says that Cov Ops is now broken: They are still fixing it!

This first fix is simply a graphical fix to the already existing bug. In build 4557, if a Cov Ops was being locked and cloaked, he was already locked. The secondary problem this caused is that the player doing the cloaking had no idea because of a graphical bug. In build 4560, the main bug still exists, but now pilots will know that they are not cloaked. That is all that is changing.

As to BM copying requiring a person actually doing more work: Huzzah!

---

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: kieron

---

Originally by: Spider Kauphman

---

Originally by: Patch Notes

---

* If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs.
* Bookmark copying is now limited to 5 bookmarks at a time. Attempting to copy more than 5 bookmarks will result in only 5 being copied.

---

What what?

---

The cloaking fix is the first part of a larger fix that will be coming in the near future.

The limitation on bookmark copying is to prevent some players from exploiting game mechanics to lag opponents or crash nodes by copying insane amounts of bookmarks.

---

Quote:

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: Kusotarre's Alt

---

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

QFT. Signed. Stamped. Approved. Agree.

This patch, and the initial Dragon patch itself, are very close to gamebreaking. People aren't exaggerating when they compare the CCP of the past month to SOE. It's that bad.

Do the devs even play this game anymore?

---

Originally by: Aelena Thraant

---

Ok I tested the cloaking on the test server. The only thing that changed was now the covert ops decloaks on the covert ops ship. In otherwords.... if your close to locking the covert ops you will lock it but if your not then you won't...

Examples: (Using a Normal Lock time: 7 seconds)

A) Covert Ops decloaks Player starts Locking Covert Cloaks within a second or 2 = Target Lost
B) Covert Ops decloaks Player starts Locking Covert Cloaks within 4 seconds of lock = Covert Cloaks Player shoots Covert decloaks

In other words... Cloaking ships are no longer a free pass thru gate camps if there is a fast locker... However if it's a slow locker... Well your safe unless you take a long time to cloak.

---

Originally by: Aelena Thraant

---

Ok I tested the cloaking on the test server. The only thing that changed was now the covert ops decloaks on the covert ops ship. In otherwords.... if your close to locking the covert ops you will lock it but if your not then you won't...

Examples: (Using a Normal Lock time: 7 seconds)

A) Covert Ops decloaks Player starts Locking Covert Cloaks within a second or 2 = Target Lost
B) Covert Ops decloaks Player starts Locking Covert Cloaks within 4 seconds of lock = Covert Cloaks Player shoots Covert decloaks

In other words... Cloaking ships are no longer a free pass thru gate camps if there is a fast locker... However if it's a slow locker... Well your safe unless you take a long time to cloak.

---

Originally by: Jinx Barker

---

'Warp Target Calibration' (Rank 4)
Prerequisites: Warp Drive Operation L4
Evasive Maneuvering: L4
Science: L3

Description:
Warp Target Calibration is a skill that allows the user to shave off 3km off his warp-to-gate distance. At level 5 this skill will allow a user to warp to gate at 0km and initiate insta-jump.

Yea, another must-have-skill, but at least it will help with the lag, rather than screwing over a huge percentage of EVE population who do not have bookmarks.

---

Originally by: Gift

---

Originally by: Aelena Thraant

---

Ok I tested the cloaking on the test server. The only thing that changed was now the covert ops decloaks on the covert ops ship. In otherwords.... if your close to locking the covert ops you will lock it but if your not then you won't...

Examples: (Using a Normal Lock time: 7 seconds)

A) Covert Ops decloaks Player starts Locking Covert Cloaks within a second or 2 = Target Lost
B) Covert Ops decloaks Player starts Locking Covert Cloaks within 4 seconds of lock = Covert Cloaks Player shoots Covert decloaks

In other words... Cloaking ships are no longer a free pass thru gate camps if there is a fast locker... However if it's a slow locker... Well your safe unless you take a long time to cloak.

---

so a frig can stop a covert & a frig or a cruiser with a sensor booster can stop recons. Am I understanding you correctly?

---

Quote:

---

* The missing warping sound effect has returned.
* If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs.

---

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: Aelena Thraant

---

Ok I tested the cloaking on the test server. The only thing that changed was now the covert ops decloaks on the covert ops ship. In otherwords.... if your close to locking the covert ops you will lock it but if your not then you won't...

Examples: (Using a Normal Lock time: 7 seconds)

A) Covert Ops decloaks Player starts Locking Covert Cloaks within a second or 2 = Target Lost
B) Covert Ops decloaks Player starts Locking Covert Cloaks within 4 seconds of lock = Covert Cloaks Player shoots Covert decloaks

In other words... Cloaking ships are no longer a free pass thru gate camps if there is a fast locker... However if it's a slow locker... Well your safe unless you take a long time to cloak.

---

Originally by: Nexus1972

---

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

/signed

---

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: Iorya Dragon

---

Are u guys nuts? You hired somebody from EA or SOE?

---

Quote:

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: Wrayeth

---

Okay, guys, did you fail to notice that part of the patchnotes that stated the jump queues would not go into effect unless the node was running at 95% or more of its CPU? This means that, for general operations, you'll have nothing to worry about.

That said, however, I can see how it would make fleet battles impossible.

---

Originally by: Wrayeth

---

Okay, guys, did you fail to notice that part of the patchnotes that stated the jump queues would not go into effect unless the node was running at 95% or more of its CPU? This means that, for general operations, you'll have nothing to worry about.

That said, however, I can see how it would make fleet battles impossible.

---

Originally by: Akira Khan

---

LMAO at all the whiners!!

no, seriously.. want some cheese with your whine?

myuahahaahahahahahahahahahaha

---

Originally by: Akira Khan

---

LMAO at all the whiners!!

no, seriously.. want some cheese with your whine?

myuahahaahahahahahahahahahaha

---

Originally by: Wrayeth

---

Okay, guys, did you fail to notice that part of the patchnotes that stated the jump queues would not go into effect unless the node was running at 95% or more of its CPU? This means that, for general operations, you'll have nothing to worry about.

That said, however, I can see how it would make fleet battles impossible.

---

Quote:

---

I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-

---

Originally by: Mervent

---

An example provided a couple of weeks ago, described a node in having 5 systems per node. One system with heavy traffic, fleet battles, POS battles can easily bring that node to 95%, and rendering the other 4 systems with the queue. Also that the systems in the nodes are not always right next together. Again with the same example they should one where Jita was mixed in with some 0.0 systems. Imagine trying to get into a 0.0 system with people chasing you and you can't because there are 800 people in Jita.

Maybe this is getting revised but in other threads I keep on hearing people say that they tried to get into a system that had 2 people in it.

---

Originally by: Kazoki Zocore

---

Edited by: Kazoki Zocore on 29/08/2006 22:03:17
To everyone that says that Cov Ops is now broken: They are still fixing it!

This first fix is simply a graphical fix to the already existing bug. In build 4557, if a Cov Ops was being locked and cloaked, he was already locked. The secondary problem this caused is that the player doing the cloaking had no idea because of a graphical bug. In build 4560, the main bug still exists, but now pilots will know that they are not cloaked. That is all that is changing.

---

Quote:

---

With all due respect, I'd like to see that explanation endorsed by a dev, if it's true.
I haven't seen any substantive response from the devs to ANY of the issues raised by players here, and that's not a comforting sign at all.

---

Originally by: Gift

---

Originally by: kieron

---

If a ship that is being targeted, and cloaks, the lock will now guarantee the uncloak effect occurs

---

Ok, I've calmed down. Please explain what this means exactly.

---

Originally by: Wrayeth

---

Okay, guys, did you fail to notice that part of the patchnotes that stated the jump queues would not go into effect unless the node was running at 95% or more of its CPU? This means that, for general operations, you'll have nothing to worry about.

---

Originally by: Miss Overlord

---

bookmarks all that 5 at a time means is u wont be able to drag 900 bookmarks and go afk for a few hours while they copy u will actually need to sit there at youre PC and copy 5 at a time (may need for each region if there are 500 bookmarks) groups of 25 ie delve * 1 - delve * 2 etc there arent many hassles there either that CCP or allow us to add bookmarks to existing folders where the window mode is full as it stands once u hit the page cap if u want to add more to a folder its impossible get a message about not being able to place in one place

This will allow one folder to be maintained but will simply add scroll option and be able to put them in just means ppl will have to pick a tiem to copy insta BMs where they are at the PC going copy 5 + copy 5 until all BMs are done.

It might actually speed up the game qute a bit if its smalelr data batches then its overall impact might be to copy almost instantous.

Its a nerf to afk insta bulk copying is all it is

---

Quote:

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: Gierling

---

I'm serious, they completely throw out risk vs reward in all spheres from manufacturing, to scouting, to area denial, to tactical movement.

It lets you move BPO's without risk of being scanned in empire, It lets you automatically get a scout into a protected system (It should be difficult to get intel on an enemy stronghold that actively has gaurds on the gates), It automatically lets you deny a system to ratters (go afk in a cov ops in an enemies mining system), It automatically provides secure warpins far from tacklers and warpable objects. No single vessel is so critical to the success of a a combat action as the Covert ops... that is why they are unbalanced.

There needs to be some way to counter them specifically, and if the best CCP can do is make it so that you can keep them out of a system if you REALLY REALLY want to then I'll take it.

---

Originally by: Felysta Sandorn

---

I'm normally one to berate whiners on these forums, and the first to congratulate CCP on a job well done, but the BM copying nerf is just ridiculous. It's not going to stop people from owning the bookmarks, it's just going to result in longer copying times for everyone. This will only result in very frustrated people, and will not decrease the number of BMs created.

Right now, my corp is involved in a move, right across the universe. We've acquired instas to 4 new regions, and they're constantly being copied between each member, frantically, before this patch is released. I also know a couple of people that are copying their already owned insta sets for future sales, as the prices are inevitably going to rise if this feature goes ahead.

Please rethink this nerf, CCP... Otherwise, no complaints.

/whine

---

Originally by: Kitty O'Shay

---

Well, the bit about cloaking doesn't change anything *except* that you'll know you've been decloaked.

Since Dragon, you'd be decloaked once someone got a lock on you, even if you cloaked befor the lock completed. But your client wouldn't show that you're decloaked.

Now it does.

The bug isn't fixed or made worse, you just know that you're screwed, instead of thinking your cloaked.

Hopefully a real cloaking fix is in the works. That's what was hinted at.

---

Originally by: Kitty O'Shay

---

Well, the bit about cloaking doesn't change anything *except* that you'll know you've been decloaked.

Since Dragon, you'd be decloaked once someone got a lock on you, even if you cloaked befor the lock completed. But your client wouldn't show that you're decloaked.

Now it does.

The bug isn't fixed or made worse, you just know that you're screwed, instead of thinking your cloaked.

Hopefully a real cloaking fix is in the works. That's what was hinted at.

---

Originally by: Kitty O'Shay

---

Well, the bit about cloaking doesn't change anything *except* that you'll know you've been decloaked.

Since Dragon, you'd be decloaked once someone got a lock on you, even if you cloaked befor the lock completed. But your client wouldn't show that you're decloaked.

Now it does.

The bug isn't fixed or made worse, you just know that you're screwed, instead of thinking your cloaked.

Hopefully a real cloaking fix is in the works. That's what was hinted at.

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

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Originally by: Caldess

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Cure the disease, don't treat the symptoms. Queues and other types of restrictions are the wrong road to go down.

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

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Quote:

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Forum Posting Control is currently experiencing heavy load and is unable to process your request. You are #24579 in queue for posting.

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Originally by: Caedicus

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You guys seriously need some prozac or something. I love how everyime a patch comes out and there are issues with it, all these people start crying "OMG you screwed up EVE and you're doing nothing about it!"

Do you honestly think CCP will make a type of ship completely useless and keep it that way. You think they spent all that time developing and balancing covert-ops just so no one can use it. Listen, they said that this was just part of a bigger hotfix. Do you know what that is? No. So just take a few chill pills, wait a bit, and I'm sure ccp will do their best to resolve the issue.

With regards to the instas. Would you rather play a laggy game constantly, or take a few minutes longer to make instas? Stop acting like its a terrorist attack or something, it's an attempt to address the database issues. Just be happy they aren't limitting or destorying them.

I just want to say to CCP you guys are doing a good job. I appreciate the hard work you are putting into this game. You guys are obviously listening us, and I like it.

To new players of EVE, don't get discouraged from the whiners on the forum. It's just the people that complain are alot louder on forums then people who are enjoying the game. These problems aren't as big as they are being presented on this thread. 95% of Eve works great. CCP warned us there would be "growing pains" with this new patch. I have confidence that with time they will fix these issues.

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: Caedicus

---

You guys seriously need some prozac or something. I love how everyime a patch comes out and there are issues with it, all these people start crying "OMG you screwed up EVE and you're doing nothing about it!"

Do you honestly think CCP will make a type of ship completely useless and keep it that way. You think they spent all that time developing and balancing covert-ops just so no one can use it. Listen, they said that this was just part of a bigger hotfix. Do you know what that is? No. So just take a few chill pills, wait a bit, and I'm sure ccp will do their best to resolve the issue.

With regards to the instas. Would you rather play a laggy game constantly, or take a few minutes longer to make instas? Stop acting like its a terrorist attack or something, it's an attempt to address the database issues. Just be happy they aren't limitting or destorying them.

I just want to say to CCP you guys are doing a good job. I appreciate the hard work you are putting into this game. You guys are obviously listening us, and I like it.

To new players of EVE, don't get discouraged from the whiners on the forum. It's just the people that complain are alot louder on forums then people who are enjoying the game. These problems aren't as big as they are being presented on this thread. 95% of Eve works great. CCP warned us there would be "growing pains" with this new patch. I have confidence that with time they will fix these issues.

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Originally by: Miss Overlord

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Originally by: Caedicus

---

You guys seriously need some prozac or something. I love how everyime a patch comes out and there are issues with it, all these people start crying "OMG you screwed up EVE and you're doing nothing about it!"

Do you honestly think CCP will make a type of ship completely useless and keep it that way. You think they spent all that time developing and balancing covert-ops just so no one can use it. Listen, they said that this was just part of a bigger hotfix. Do you know what that is? No. So just take a few chill pills, wait a bit, and I'm sure ccp will do their best to resolve the issue.

With regards to the instas. Would you rather play a laggy game constantly, or take a few minutes longer to make instas? Stop acting like its a terrorist attack or something, it's an attempt to address the database issues. Just be happy they aren't limitting or destorying them.

I just want to say to CCP you guys are doing a good job. I appreciate the hard work you are putting into this game. You guys are obviously listening us, and I like it.

To new players of EVE, don't get discouraged from the whiners on the forum. It's just the people that complain are alot louder on forums then people who are enjoying the game. These problems aren't as big as they are being presented on this thread. 95% of Eve works great. CCP warned us there would be "growing pains" with this new patch. I have confidence that with time they will fix these issues.

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u see BMs for some alliances are a big money spinner remove their rapid lag inducing region at a time insta copying and u force em to NPC to make iSK so i think that is where the whiens are coming from when there is an economic interest at stake some ppl really get stroppy

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Originally by: Chewan Mesa

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Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 29/08/2006 23:44:11
Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 29/08/2006 23:43:10

Originally by: Caedicus

---

You guys seriously need some prozac or something. I love how everyime a patch comes out and there are issues with it, all these people start crying "OMG you screwed up EVE and you're doing nothing about it!"

Do you honestly think CCP will make a type of ship completely useless and keep it that way. You think they spent all that time developing and balancing covert-ops just so no one can use it. Listen, they said that this was just part of a bigger hotfix. Do you know what that is? No. So just take a few chill pills, wait a bit, and I'm sure ccp will do their best to resolve the issue.

With regards to the instas. Would you rather play a laggy game constantly, or take a few minutes longer to make instas? Stop acting like its a terrorist attack or something, it's an attempt to address the database issues. Just be happy they aren't limitting or destorying them.

I just want to say to CCP you guys are doing a good job. I appreciate the hard work you are putting into this game. You guys are obviously listening us, and I like it.

To new players of EVE, don't get discouraged from the whiners on the forum. It's just the people that complain are alot louder on forums then people who are enjoying the game. These problems aren't as big as they are being presented on this thread. 95% of Eve works great. CCP warned us there would be "growing pains" with this new patch. I have confidence that with time they will fix these issues.

---

Seriously, I dunno if you didnt bother reading most of the replies here, but people mainly said "if there is a cov ops change/nerf/fix, we want to know it all, not just 1 part that seriously s*cks!".

Concering the instas, people here did not say they want instas to stay that way, they like me are totally fine removing instas, improving the lag, because we suffer as well from it, but not by making travel longer and making 0.0-travel almost impossible, but with getting us another solution, which the current "fix" isnt.

CCP is doing a great job, otherwise people here wouldnt still be playing the game since 3 years cause its still fun, and would "whine" totally unconstructive, which they dont, people just ask for more info.

---

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

---

This has got to be a joke.

First off, covops ships which are already iffy to fly because they require a currently 60M module (price direct result of sloppy game design with t2 cloaks and the broken BPO system) become instant road kill if anyone so much as manages to start locking them?

Second, the jump queue system, which already has a near-20-page thread detailing why it's killing pvp in the game, will be left as is?

Do the devs have any idea of what the above two will do to the game? Covops are already screwed due to cloak issues, and now this. And since this thread might actually get some proper dev response (unlike aforementioned N-page thread), how about someone official coming here and telling us how:

a) we're supposed to move gangs system-to-system without them trickling one-by-one into the waiting arms of a gate camp

b) we're supposed to escort anything, when the escorts might get randomly separated from the target at any gate?

c) we're supposed to have tactical warfare in general, when any gate might randomly not function with no way to know in advance?

And don't give me crap about "it only happens in major hub system". It happens all the time, sometimes with systems with only 2-3 other people in them. It happens in 1.0. It happens in 0.4. It happens in 0.0. People are losing ships to it all the time, and there is no way they can fight it. Other than not use jump gates.

Seriously, these two points seriously make me question where CCP is headed right now, and if the people in charge have a clue anymore. Or if there really is anyone in charge, is everyone competent in panic mode scrambling after server performance problems and the rest are making these decisions?

If these changes are intended to stay, we need discussion right now about:

1) the complete plan for covert ops and cloaking, assuming there is one. Why was the cloaking change implemented, what problem is it trying to solve.

2) an explanation of how we're supposed to have tactical PVP in the game with the random gate queues, ideally with a discussion of what real problem this was trying to solve (and why that problem is bigger than the disaster it's causing), and an explanation of what the final system will look like.

We're waiting.

And skip the pseudo-funny "we were drunk at the time" stuff, if ceased to be funny some time ago as a response to serious player issues, and just looks like what it is (an attempt to skirt the issue).

---

Originally by: Gungankllr

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For the love of god please wait for CCP to clarify the Covert ops thing before you lose your freaking minds.

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Quote:

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The jump queue for systems will only occur if the system in question is on a node using 95% or more CPU. This has previously been hotfixed on TQ.

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Originally by: Gungankllr

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For the love of god please wait for CCP to clarify the Covert ops thing before you lose your freaking minds.

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Originally by: Miss Overlord

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half fix is better than no fix will allow at least a chance of surviviablity for the next week for covie ops pilots

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Originally by: Chewan Mesa

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Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 29/08/2006 23:44:11
Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 29/08/2006 23:43:10



Seriously, I dunno if you didnt bother reading most of the replies here, but people mainly said "if there is a cov ops change/nerf/fix, we want to know it all, not just 1 part that seriously s*cks!".

Concering the instas, people here did not say they want instas to stay that way, they like me are totally fine removing instas, improving the lag, because we suffer as well from it, but not by making travel longer and making 0.0-travel almost impossible, but with getting us another solution, which the current "fix" isnt.

CCP is doing a great job, otherwise people here wouldnt still be playing the game since 3 years cause its still fun, and would "whine" totally unconstructive, which they dont, people just ask for more info.

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Originally by: Defenestrate

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Let's see...that's not ONE, not TWO, but THREE gamebreaking changes (gate queues, covops, and instas) in this "HEY GUYS NO CHANGES TO GAME CONTENT HERE" patch. Did I miss something or did CCP get bought out by SOE while I was on vacation?

I will wait two weeks for these issues to be resolved out of respect for the good work CCP has done so far. After that I will cancel my account. I know "giev me ur items and isk" etc, I am usually not in the business of expressing my rage about video games on the internet or threatening to cancel my account, but this is outrageous. I have many other things I can spend my monthly fee on other than internet spaceships.

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Originally by: juduzz

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well just been on test server to test these "great" <-----a SUPER amount of saracsm here! and with an ares and no sensor boosting mods I could lock a buzzard AND scramble before he went to warp.

Yep eve is scrwed up now........

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: juduzz

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well just been on test server to test these "great" <-----a SUPER amount of saracsm here! and with an ares and no sensor boosting mods I could lock a buzzard AND scramble before he went to warp.

Yep eve is scrwed up now........

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I've been trying to tell people this...

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: juduzz

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well just been on test server to test these "great" <-----a SUPER amount of saracsm here! and with an ares and no sensor boosting mods I could lock a buzzard AND scramble before he went to warp.

Yep eve is scrwed up now........

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I've been trying to tell people this...

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