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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
HarlyQ
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
82
   |
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:10:13 -
[2881] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Reasonable people: "If you want people to take sov, you need to make sov worth taking."
Everyone else: "Well actually..."
It's like arguing with tumblr.
I thought you knew that the average person that lives in highsec and lowsec has an IQ lower than tumblers. |
Miner Hottie
Valar Morghulis.
Goonswarm Federation
73
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:10:23 -
[2882] - Quote
Perkin Warbeck wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Perkin Warbeck wrote:Okay posting in the whine thread when I promised myself I wouldn't.
My two main issues are:
1. Capturing and defending sovereignty looks and feels similar to the FW model. It's wrong on so many levels. After experiencing the rate at which systems can be flipped and spending the best part of a year chasing stabbed frigates out of FW plexes in Sahtogas, I can testify that it is the most God awful, soul crushing gameplay you can imagine. There is a reason FW is best experienced when you don't actually live in the war zone and a reason why so many established corps have left.
2. The four hour window. I get the reasons for it but it kind of leaves the Aussies up the billabong without a didgeridoo. 1. The frigates can't just warp away in the sov situation, they have to finish their cycle first. Also, there's no cap on the size of the ships brought, so I'm not forced into frigates in many situations. 2. I can't argue with this because analogy is too amusing. My issue isn't actually with whether a frigate, cruiser, small gang or whatever captures a system it's actually that CCP are trying to introduce a concept of 'perma war'. That your sov can be quickly attacked during a certain period every single day. Now perma war is great for the aggressor but it's terrible for the defender. After a while it becomes a grind and burn out and boredom set in. In theory it sounds fun but in reality it's awful. The defender actually needs some stability to develop and maintain growth in an area. To me it appears that CCP has only developed one side of the equation. On the one hand it will be easier to take sovereignty. But what then? How does a small alliance/corp keep it unless they log on every single day and play capture the flag every single damn day.
This needs to be shouted right the way to ccp hq. I still doubt they would get it.
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
682
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:11:08 -
[2883] - Quote
HarlyQ wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Reasonable people: "If you want people to take sov, you need to make sov worth taking."
Everyone else: "Well actually..."
It's like arguing with tumblr. I thought you knew that the average person that lives in highsec and lowsec has an IQ lower than tumblers.
You have a very high opinion of tumblrites.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6558
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:11:35 -
[2884] - Quote
Kah'Les wrote:Tamdra Beebort wrote:baltec1 wrote:
There isnt anything extreme about it.
Right now we have several sigs out attacking all across eve while running a highsec organisation, WH sigs and a large home defence force. We can deploy several thousand pilots to the task of attacking targets without reducing home defence.
I get that and I believe that you can and do but the next question is how long can you pilots keep it up? It is the opposite of blue balling, seems like after the first week or so of E-linking a structure to just be chased off to another would drive burn-out up. GSF is great at organizing but individuals are already complaining about having to be vigilant just to keep their space. How long will it last? Is GSF capable of continuing a "burn Null" campaign for more than a month or so. I am trying to look at this objectively because I want the game to fun and interesting to everyone. We shouldn't get tunnel vision on one specific hull or setup to the point that it blinds us from the point of the changes, fun. We want fun fights and hell camping a station for a week may be fun to one side and not the other but with these changes the fight has to continue in different parts of space and that will probably require more that a few ceptors with an E-link and if it doesn't then the losing side deserves to lose. If you flood a region with interceptors and it causes lots of fights, some of which escalate in larger fights then the mechanic works and if you flood a region and the occupants don't defend and lose space the mechanic works. Either way I don't see how one group can keep up a sustained offensive of system trolling without suffering burnout or without causing larger fights. Either way there will be a winner and loser and both will be determined more by activity and less by inactivity. There are so many people here that are like this, Goonswarm gone burn out because of this mechanice because they can't keep up the pressure. I bet few of you have been on the reseving end of what Goons can do to a single corp or how much time they can put down to RF towers and remote systems. Goons have the biggest propeganda machine in this game, no other alliance can spewe out so much news about their own doing as them. In the short fountain war that lasted 2 weeks, right after Pheobe goons travled over 60 jumps several times back and forth to defend their systsmes from N3 and not enought with that they had own groupes that spent days behind enemy line RF systems fare away from the front. If you think your little 10 man operation to get some uesless space that no one us is gone tier out goons and not make them griefe you even more you are wronge. And this is just why we trying to fight this FW 2.0 systems Fozzie have made, is because of the amount of griefe that this glitchy game mechanics make avaible for goon to use.
Hah, is ncdot even allowed to express such worries about what ~the goons~ will do?
Won't it make you look bad...
But also, don't forget it doesn't mean that anyone wins. Imagine if there was a button in jita and you only had to shoot it to drop all sov. There wouldn't be any sov holders at all.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Kah'Les
hirr
Northern Coalition.
15
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:15:19 -
[2885] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:
I am defending FW 2.0 because it will shake things up, every change dredges up these same types of arguments. Some are valid and some are not and I want what is best for the game not a group. Change will always hurt or help some group and discussion is the best way to work out kinks.
Also, maybe the people running null sec at the moment need to chased out of null sec or out of their way of thinking because look at where we are at.
Making null sec into a part time job is not what's best for the game. But guess the mighty high sec dwellers always know best and they are defentily gone defend their space that day they get it without no resistance because no one wants it. Only 10% of null sec systems are worth living in I say if you guys want to live in the rest 90% I wont stop you guys. FInaly maybe you will see how useless null realy is and why we all got High sec alts doing our ISK making. BUt if this system get implemented just know it's gone be years at least until they will change it again. |
HarlyQ
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:17:28 -
[2886] - Quote
I think they should implement this in FW to see how it goes I mean they need to test it someplace right and this is just another way of doing things I say we test it in lowsec and see how it goes ;) |
Kah'Les
hirr
Northern Coalition.
15
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:18:21 -
[2887] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hah, is ncdot even allowed to express such worries about what ~the goons~ will do?
Won't it make you look bad...
But also, don't forget it doesn't mean that anyone wins. Imagine if there was a button in jita and you only had to shoot it to drop all sov. There wouldn't be any sov holders at all.
I just think goons are gone be the one more suited for the new system, NCdot is more about the fights than constant griefing.
Thou letting someone win by default seems like boring game play. |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
131
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:18:54 -
[2888] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Same reason we would use them, to ruin someone else's game.
Why the hell would you ruin someone else's game at the expense of your own game?
Well, goons would do it to prove a point. Which is like proving that meat grinders are dangerous and should require operation license by shoving your hand into one. But why would RvB take part in this idiocy if they don't get their fun from it? |
Alli Ginthur
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
50
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:20:42 -
[2889] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Reasonable people: "If you want people to take sov, you need to make sov worth taking."
Everyone else: "Well actually..."
It's like arguing with tumblr.
So true. Null needs a few hundred carrots right about now.
The only issue when null gets those carrots, if null becomes worth it to take, what happens when either your group, or NC.'s group, decide that because the improved space is wonderful, and worth to take and use, they want even more of the improved space? Doesn't it become a point where the big guys only stand to get bigger either way? If mechanically you can't break the coalitions because of the organizational prowess of the blocs, which I totally agree is something to marvel at, and you can't break the coalitions through the metagame, how DO you make it in the players' best interests to break up the coalitions and regain a null where smaller groups can gain access? |
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
115
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:21:26 -
[2890] - Quote
Kah'Les wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:
I am defending FW 2.0 because it will shake things up, every change dredges up these same types of arguments. Some are valid and some are not and I want what is best for the game not a group. Change will always hurt or help some group and discussion is the best way to work out kinks.
Also, maybe the people running null sec at the moment need to chased out of null sec or out of their way of thinking because look at where we are at.
Making null sec into a part time job is not what's best for the game. But guess the mighty high sec dwellers always know best and they are defentily gone defend their space that day they get it without no resistance because no one wants it. Only 10% of null sec systems are worth living in I say if you guys want to live in the rest 90% I wont stop you guys. FInaly maybe you will see how useless null realy is and why we all got High sec alts doing our ISK making. BUt if this system get implemented just know it's gone be years at least until they will change it again.
Like I said before, phase three will probably be an upgrade system for sov holders. I know that most space is useless, unprofitable and whatever else you want to call it and without incentives to live in that space there is no reason to hold it. Even my inferior high sec mind can grasp that, that's why I left null over a year ago. It is not interesting to me and if and when it becomes interesting again I will move back. We shouldn't let bitter vet syndrome set in before things even change.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
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Kah'Les
hirr
Northern Coalition.
15
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:27:48 -
[2891] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:
Like I said before, phase three will probably be an upgrade system for sov holders. I know that most space is useless, unprofitable and whatever else you want to call it and without incentives to live in that space there is no reason to hold it. Even my inferior high sec mind can grasp that, that's why I left null over a year ago. It is not interesting to me and if and when it becomes interesting again I will move back. We shouldn't let bitter vet syndrome set in before things even change.
I hate this arugment the most, well you don't know what Phase 3 is so just sit down and wait for what CCP is gone do because that is probably gone fixe everything. It's just how I we been sitting doing nothing waiting for a proper null sec warfare system just to get a Faction Warfare copy instead. But if we wait another 6 months it's gone be rewarding guys. I rather have the current system than some cheap copy, just find a way to lower the amount of timers.
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Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
Spaceship Bebop
755
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:29:29 -
[2892] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Face it, interceptors fitting this sov laser is a terrible idea and needs to be purged.
Nope, it's totally fine, and can be completely countered by AFK alts in Drakes. There's no problem at all here to solve, the solution's already there.
Quit whining about Interceptors, HTFU, and prepare to actually have to defend your sov.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12009
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:31:40 -
[2893] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:We shouldn't let bitter vet syndrome set in before things even change.
No, in fact people should make sure to not let up on lighting a fire under their asses so the game doesn't get half baked, unfocused changes piecemeal.
That's a big damned problem with EVE, throughout it's history. Iterative changes are fine now and then, but not for something like this.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Miner Hottie
Valar Morghulis.
Goonswarm Federation
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:32:58 -
[2894] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Tamdra Beebort wrote: how long can you pilots keep it up? I have absolutely no doubt that if an organization as large as Goonswarm can reliably entertain it's members by RF'ing the rest of nullsec every few days, then they absolutely will just because they can.
Sweet black baby jesus someone outside the CFC who comes close to understanding us.
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6558
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:33:33 -
[2895] - Quote
Alli Ginthur wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Reasonable people: "If you want people to take sov, you need to make sov worth taking."
Everyone else: "Well actually..."
It's like arguing with tumblr. So true. Null needs a few hundred carrots right about now. The only issue when null gets those carrots, if null becomes worth it to take, what happens when either your group, or NC.'s group, decide that because the improved space is wonderful, and worth to take and use, they want even more of the improved space? Doesn't it become a point where the big guys only stand to get bigger either way? If mechanically you can't break the coalitions because of the organizational prowess of the blocs, which I totally agree is something to marvel at, and you can't break the coalitions through the metagame, how DO you make it in the players' best interests to break up the coalitions and regain a null where smaller groups can gain access?
Easy. Make it so the place is worhless.
There are some groups (you know who) that live in space the "big guys" don't care for, and are farmed for killmails etc.
If all space is terrible, then it will be filled with a vibrant patchwork of people who will be farmed by the "big guys" (now staging from lowsec or wherever) and you can claim victory.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6558
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:35:19 -
[2896] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:Tamdra Beebort wrote: how long can you pilots keep it up? I have absolutely no doubt that if an organization as large as Goonswarm can reliably entertain it's members by RF'ing the rest of nullsec every few days, then they absolutely will just because they can. Sweet black baby jesus someone outside the CFC who comes close to understanding us.
What you really mean is it's some goon forumspy alt trying to frighten people.
Stay the course, sov lasers will end the 0.0 nightmare
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
684
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:35:59 -
[2897] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:baltec1 wrote:Face it, interceptors fitting this sov laser is a terrible idea and needs to be purged. Nope, it's totally fine, and can be completely countered by AFK alts in Drakes. There's no problem at all here to solve, the solution's already there. Quit whining about Interceptors, HTFU, and prepare to actually have to defend your sov.
Why should we defend our sov?
Why should anyone defend their sov?
Jesus ******* christ on a pogo stick, this is the biggest problem with the proposal. At least sovereignty mining lasers, trollceptors, primetimes and whatnot can be discussed and fixed but CCP has been completely clueless about incentives for month, so that's the issue that I'm trying to focus on here.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6558
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:39:34 -
[2898] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Veskrashen wrote:baltec1 wrote:Face it, interceptors fitting this sov laser is a terrible idea and needs to be purged. Nope, it's totally fine, and can be completely countered by AFK alts in Drakes. There's no problem at all here to solve, the solution's already there. Quit whining about Interceptors, HTFU, and prepare to actually have to defend your sov. Why should we defend our sov? Why should anyone defend their sov? Jesus ******* christ on a pogo stick, this is the biggest problem with the proposal. At least sovereignty mining lasers, trollceptors, primetimes and whatnot can be discussed and fixed but CCP has been completely clueless about incentives for years, so that's the issue that I'm trying to focus on here.
Goons in nullsec will end once it isn't worth it for goons to be in nullsec
It's amazing and irrefutable.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
15411
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:46:20 -
[2899] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:baltec1 wrote:Same reason we would use them, to ruin someone else's game. Why the hell would you ruin someone else's game at the expense of your own game? Well, goons would do it to prove a point. Which is like proving that meat grinders are dangerous and should require operation license by shoving your hand into one. But why would RvB take part in this idiocy if they don't get their fun from it?
They would find it fun.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
115
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:50:19 -
[2900] - Quote
Kah'Les wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:
Like I said before, phase three will probably be an upgrade system for sov holders. I know that most space is useless, unprofitable and whatever else you want to call it and without incentives to live in that space there is no reason to hold it. Even my inferior high sec mind can grasp that, that's why I left null over a year ago. It is not interesting to me and if and when it becomes interesting again I will move back. We shouldn't let bitter vet syndrome set in before things even change.
I hate this arugment the most, well you don't know what Phase 3 is so just sit down and wait for what CCP is gone do because that is probably gone fixe everything. It's just how I we been sitting doing nothing waiting for a proper null sec warfare system just to get a Faction Warfare copy instead. But if we wait another 6 months it's gone be rewarding guys. I rather have the current system than some cheap copy, just find a way to lower the amount of timers.
We wanted change, no we don't because it is too change.
We don't want to shoot structures, well yes we do because there isn't really any other way to do it.
We want occupancy based sov even though we can't define it in any meaningful way.
Null is stagnate and it needs to be changed as long as it stays the same.
We don't want timers unless it changes how sov works then timers are okay.
CCP hasn't changed anything in a good way ever so they need to change sov but don't do it if changes how sov works.
Make it so that smaller groups can take sov but don't make it where smaller groups can harass larger groups.
We want players to be active unless it interrupts our playtime.
No matter what they do they are going to be wrong so why even try? We can't have both sides. There is no other way to capture sov besides shooting things with stuff and waiting on a timer because this is a video game and that is how they work.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6559
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:54:00 -
[2901] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Torgeir Hekard wrote:baltec1 wrote:Same reason we would use them, to ruin someone else's game. Why the hell would you ruin someone else's game at the expense of your own game? Well, goons would do it to prove a point. Which is like proving that meat grinders are dangerous and should require operation license by shoving your hand into one. But why would RvB take part in this idiocy if they don't get their fun from it? They would find it fun.
Never underestimate the ability of our leaders to convince us that something is fun, exciting "content".
They built a massive blue donut out of it, don't joke around about things like that.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
760
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:55:56 -
[2902] - Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CCP want to increase capital and supercapital losses? How do inty fleets do that, pray tell? |
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
116
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:56:55 -
[2903] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:We shouldn't let bitter vet syndrome set in before things even change. No, in fact people should make sure to not let up on lighting a fire under their asses so the game doesn't get half baked, unfocused changes piecemeal. That's a big damned problem with EVE, throughout it's history. Iterative changes are fine now and then, but not for something like this.
You are right we should hold them to the fire and do our best to make it the best we can through feedback and discussion.
I was referring to his comment about making sov a partime job and how only 10% of space is worth anything. It should be a partime job or you shouldn't be there. Making all space worth something is what needs to happen and phase two doesn't address that, it addresses mechanics of taking and holding sov.
Kah'Les wrote:Making null sec into a part time job is not what's best for the game. But guess the mighty high sec dwellers always know best and they are defentily gone defend their space that day they get it without no resistance because no one wants it. Only 10% of null sec systems are worth living in I say if you guys want to live in the rest 90% I wont stop you guys. FInaly maybe you will see how useless null realy is and why we all got High sec alts doing our ISK making. BUt if this system get implemented just know it's gone be years at least until they will change it again.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
|
Miner Hottie
Valar Morghulis.
Goonswarm Federation
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:57:33 -
[2904] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:baltec1 wrote:Same reason we would use them, to ruin someone else's game. Why the hell would you ruin someone else's game at the expense of your own game? Well, goons would do it to prove a point. Which is like proving that meat grinders are dangerous and should require operation license by shoving your hand into one. But why would RvB take part in this idiocy if they don't get their fun from it?
I think you underestimate how far I will go to ruin someone else's day.
Also, because I am like a lot of goons, mid spectrum autistic, I can and will trollceptor some losers hovel system on one side of New Eden whilst valiantly defending the homeland with another.
Why?
Because CCP have spread petrol all over new eden and handed me the match and I want to watch it burn (from my fortress in Deklein).
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Miner Hottie
Valar Morghulis.
Goonswarm Federation
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 04:59:52 -
[2905] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Miner Hottie wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:Tamdra Beebort wrote: how long can you pilots keep it up? I have absolutely no doubt that if an organization as large as Goonswarm can reliably entertain it's members by RF'ing the rest of nullsec every few days, then they absolutely will just because they can. Sweet black baby jesus someone outside the CFC who comes close to understanding us. What you really mean is it's some goon forumspy alt trying to frighten people. Stay the course, sov lasers will end the 0.0 nightmare
We have spais?
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6560
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 05:02:40 -
[2906] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CCP want to increase capital and supercapital losses? How do inty fleets do that, pray tell?
It's fine if no one "needs" capital and supercapitals anymore.
Just lots and lots of players who will do something endlessly because they're brainwashed or something... er
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
687
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 05:05:16 -
[2907] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:I am defending FW 2.0 because it will shake things up
Defending a change because "it will shake things up" is just about the most myopic justification that I can imagine. So what if it does? There's always some increase in activity after a major change in game mechanics, but this is always transient. You need to judge changes based upon the routines that players will settle into with the new mechanics, not the actions they'll take in adjusting to them.
This is the same mistake that CCP is making regarding the Phoebe travel changes. They've pointed to the flurry of activity after the patch and considered this an indication that their design was a success.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6560
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 05:06:30 -
[2908] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:I am defending FW 2.0 because it will shake things up Defending a change because "it will shake things up" is just about the most myopic justification that I can imagine. So what if it does? There's always some increase in activity after a major change in game mechanics, but this is always transient. You need to judge changes based upon the routines that players will settle into with the new mechanics, not the actions they'll take in adjusting to them. This is the same mistake that CCP is making regarding the Phoebe travel changes. They've pointed to the flurry of activity after the patch and considered this an indication that their design was a success.
I'm really fatigued. It was a success.
Except that now I will go to sleep and have a 0.0dream. That is a failure.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12015
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 05:07:47 -
[2909] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote: It should be a partime job or you shouldn't be there.
You do realize this is a videogame, right?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Specia1 K
State War Academy
Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 05:09:07 -
[2910] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:baltec1 wrote:Same reason we would use them, to ruin someone else's game. Why the hell would you ruin someone else's game at the expense of your own game? Well, goons would do it to prove a point. Which is like proving that meat grinders are dangerous and should require operation license by shoving your hand into one. But why would RvB take part in this idiocy if they don't get their fun from it?
lol, I just spewed my coffee :)
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