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CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 1020	Posted - 2015.06.24 15:57:07 - [1] - Quote In a continued effort to make sure that the skill of every member of your fleet counts towards the fight, we are making changes to fleet warp mechanics. We've already had a torrent of feedback, and today CCP Larrikin has a dev blog with more details on what is changing. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics @CCP_Logibro


CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 135	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:02:35 - [2] - Quote Reserved for future Q&A =)

Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1722	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:09:44 - [3] - Quote I like the addition of broadcasting a bookmark, not so sure it needs a delay (unless that's just unavoidable). Will have to see it in action. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
Mizhir Matari Exodus The Camel Empire 74441	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:10:27 - [4] - Quote Quote: After feedback and discussion, weGÇÖve done some magic on our code and now a wider range of objects will be broadcastable as a Warp-To: Mission locations Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable) Fleet members Along with all existing broadcastable items Good call. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Mizhir Matari Exodus The Camel Empire 74441	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:11:12 - [5] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: I like the addition of broadcasting a bookmark, not so sure it needs a delay (unless that's just unavoidable). Will have to see it in action. If there wasn't any delay it would just surpass the effect of these changes. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Jyn Artan 0	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:12:16 - [6] - Quote The ability to broadcast additional items is a good development. Question If you have different corps in a fleet how does the bookmark broadcast work? Can you just broadcast the location of the bookmark even if other fleet members don't have it in their bookmark list?
Rath Valent 235MeV Waterboard Comedy Tour 4	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:14:13 - [7] - Quote There is already a propagation delay for corp bookmarks that seems to take from a few seconds to a minute plus, probably based on server load and other variable factors. Has the bookmark propagation delay been embedded in code in the form of "at least x minutes/seconds"? RV
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 560	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:16:36 - [8] - Quote You could just solve the bombing problem by making them decloak each other again under 2k and put the actual skill back in being a bomber FC and pilot. It would remedy so many of the issues you're trying to solve.
Quesa Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 73	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:25:11 - [9] - Quote I think reverting the scan probe time back to ~40 seconds would have fixed a lot.
Aebe Amraen Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 142	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:25:29 - [10] - Quote Can you address the near impossibility of catching off-grid boosters with these changes?

Mostlyharmlesss GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 161	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:27:53 - [11] - Quote Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder. Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 72	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:29:09 - [12] - Quote That's an awsome idea to force fleet members involvment ! Thank god the people which gave you early feedback called the right points. Yes to no fleet-warps for some destination, but not without broadcast capacity. Each and every point are still warp-to, FCs just gonna have to call ranges, time, and estimate what warps when, how etc. Not only members are more involed but that's more job to do for FC strategicly speaking. I think that's a good idea. Next anchor ? Same question about what does mean : Quote: Along with all existing broadcastable items
Quesa Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 73	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:30:19 - [13] - Quote Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) making everyone fly them. Stop bubbles (aka defensive bubbles) are those which are placed to pull a hostile fleet off of it's intended warp-to target. So you drop bubbles between a hostile fleet and your own fleet so they cannot land on top of you. He is not describing a hostile fleet bubbling another.
Winter Archipelago Furtherance. 397	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:30:45 - [14] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Along with all existing broadcastable items Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by this? Does this mean that, if we broadcast a location (such as a scanned target), the fleet can warp via the broadcast? Or will this be limited to the aforementioned locations that were already warpable? Or am I missing the mark entirely? Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections. Once you've made your choice, join the channels *EVE-Scout* or *Furtherance Public* and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
Mostlyharmlesss GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 161	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:32:51 - [15] - Quote Quesa wrote: Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) making everyone fly them. Stop bubbles (aka defensive bubbles) are those which are placed to pull a hostile fleet off of it's intended warp-to target. So you drop bubbles between a hostile fleet and your own fleet so they cannot land on top of you. He is not describing a hostile fleet bubbling another. And that is the problem. Slippery petes are bubble immune so they can dictate the entire fight unless you land right on top of them which is now made harder. Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
Steven Ellecone Catastrophic Overview Failure Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:33:12 - [16] - Quote I really hope this isn't the "solution" to wormholes. Not being able to fleet warp to a wormhole is a really big deal. If your whole fleet is landing at different times it's giving a huge advantage to the side that's already established on the hole. They'll easily be able to pop a few people before logi can start getting reps up. Please do not make this change without allowing wormholers to be able to fleet warp to a wormhole or you're going to really discourage wormhole pvp. I can see a lot of groups deciding to just sit in their POS rather than fight if they know they are going to lose a few ships at the beginning of a fight. That's enough to easily turn the tide on most 5-15 person fights. One side is going to establish control on a hole and the other side will be unwilling to fight unless they have superior numbers and firepower since they will be at a huge disadvantage without fleet warp.
Midnight Hope Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 180	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:33:39 - [17] - Quote "Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable)" How much of a delay will it be?
Ted McManfist GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 51	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:35:57 - [18] - Quote Quote: The most common long range (defined as +150km) fleets seen in recent times are GÇ£Slippery PetesGÇ¥. These are specialized Tengus that are fit with lots of ECCM, making them difficult to probe down. The combination of on-grid combat probing and fleet-warps have choked out most other long-range doctrines. We expect these changes to give long-range fleets time to deploy countermeasures, such as stop-bubbles Do you guys even play this game?
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 98	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:37:52 - [19] - Quote CCP Larrikin, thank you for taking the feedback and modifying your proposal. I believe this set will get you much closer to promoting the individual involvement you seek to promote. knobber Jobbler wrote: You could just solve the bombing problem by making them decloak each other again under 2k and put the actual skill back in being a bomber FC and pilot. It would remedy so many of the issues you're trying to solve. Yeah? That's more about luck than any skill, since you can't navigate around what you can't see. With the current changes, the first bomber to decloak will give away the position on the others, so will require superb coordination. Which is great. And infinitely better than your silly ideas. Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder. He meant other sniper doctrines - BS- and BC-based ones - which will be able to deploy those defensive measures.
Destoya Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 428	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:43:11 - [20] - Quote Seems much more agreeable to me than the earlier rendition, +1

Max Singularity House Singularity 183	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:44:20 - [21] - Quote Blessings to those Devs that listen and hear the people! Harbinger of Faith his Holiness Maximilian Singularity of the Sixth Empire, Pope of New Eden -First of his name- ((My doctors try to tell me Eve is not real... pffft... I've seen the YouTube Video. Eve is Real))
Minchurra Perkone 22	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:44:23 - [22] - Quote I have some Qs if you would be kind enough to answer: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? Q2 is very important to me because the only thing I really use fleet warps for anymore is to panic warp my fleet to a safe spot when they start to die.
Porcelina Evil Young Flesh 2	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:45:24 - [23] - Quote So you plan to reduce the effectiveness of bomber fleets by breaking ALL other types of fleets. Great logic you have there. Squad warping you and your friends to a safe bookmark is one of the primary benefits of being in a fleet. This will make life a lot harder for nullsec and lowsec dwellers across the board.
Jade Gondar Human Sacrifice for Dummies 0	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:46:34 - [24] - Quote This hurts those the least that fly same sized fleets, and those the most, that require coordinated mixed sized fleet drops. In other words, it does next to nothing to nullsec bombing runs and makes every mixed fleet synchronized PvP drop next to impossible. That's especially the case in wormhole space, where the second is usually the case. If we want to engage as a whole, we need the means to do it. Not the means to suicide one by one into a present force. The way it is, this also hurts smaller numbers the most, as the single ship has more significance and encourages "fly this ship doctrine and follow FC command" tatctics. That's the opposite of what you want, isn't it?
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 99	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:46:51 - [25] - Quote Ted McManfist wrote: Quote: The most common long range (defined as +150km) fleets seen in recent times are GÇ£Slippery PetesGÇ¥. These are specialized Tengus that are fit with lots of ECCM, making them difficult to probe down. The combination of on-grid combat probing and fleet-warps have choked out most other long-range doctrines. We expect these changes to give long-range fleets time to deploy countermeasures, such as stop-bubbles Do you guys even play this game? It's often helpful to follow up such snide remarks with the reasoning behind your incredulity. Otherwise, you're just making me scroll more.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 72	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:51:03 - [26] - Quote Minchurra wrote: I have some Qs if you would be kind enough to answer: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? Q2 is very important to me because the only thing I really use fleet warps for anymore is to panic warp my fleet to a safe spot when they start to die. 1. Yes, no extra steps as i understood. 2. No, but you will be able to broadcast it so that any member of your fleet can warp to it. 3. I don't, but i suppose same as 2. by principle. Porcelina wrote: So you plan to reduce the effectiveness of bomber fleets by breaking ALL other types of fleets. Great logic you have there. Squad warping you and your friends to a safe bookmark is one of the primary benefits of being in a fleet. This will make life a lot harder for nullsec and lowsec dwellers across the board. Oh yeah, that's Soooooo much harder to broadcast a bookmark wether than fleet warp your fleet directly to it. Really difficult job ! /cheer to bomber lfeet !
FearlessLittleToaster GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 47	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:52:57 - [27] - Quote First off, I apologize for being late to the party as it were; I was on a field problem where access to electricity made it a good day so replying to the first thread was not an option. That being said, better late than never. Overall I'm in favor of the changes. The power creep of fleetwarp from all the other changes that impacted it (probing improvements, warp speed changes, etc) meant that it had gotten a bit out of hand. However I'm concerned that the loss of tactical mobility on grid will have an overall negative impact on fleet combat. Since fleets are always moving this matters quite a lot. Right now a slower fleet only has one way to re-position relative to a faster one, and that is combat probes. Even as things stand a fast cruiser doctrine can move 12+ km from the point that the slower fleet lands, though this is not enough to keep interceptors from sticking to them like hair on a gorilla. With the new changes that distance would about double, if some testing I just did is correct. On the surface this wouldn't look like a big issue since a 2km/s cruiser fleets is still hosed in a race with a 5km/s interceptor fleet. The problem is the time it takes for the inties to close that distance, and the further 12+ km that the cruisers will move while it happens. So long as the cruisers can track and hit an MWDing interceptor it gives them quite a bit of time to shoot at the tackle while it tries to catch up. With their larger sig radius and slightly lower speed this is a particular problem for interdictors, assuming that their opponents aren't nullified T3s that don't have to care. As well, it gives the cruiser fleet that much more time to warp out after they see combat probes on D-Scan. After these changes go into effect there will not be a viable way to put tackle on a fast moving cruiser fleet (except a comedy Succubus fleet?). Probing will simply be too slow to catch a fleet that can go much over (roughly) 1.8km/s and load Javelin M or RLMLs. Trying to use interceptors and frigates to close will just result in massive casualties on the part of the tacklers. Sure the pursuer could just bring a TON of frigates and eat the losses but why would they? Instead, given the overall very high SP and wealth of the average nullsec alliance, everyone is going to fly some variant of the 250mm rail/MWD Tengu. You are right that it won't be a Slippery Pete though; there won't be any need for all the ECCM because being probed out will be irrelevant. All of this goes back to the fact that it is very hard to achieve any sort of tactical surprise in Eve. Hotdrops and combat probing were pretty much the only ways to do it that everyone couldn't see coming far in advance. Now its going to be just hotdrops, and those are really not all that feasible in most situations. With as much reaction time as a FC will be able to count on having after this any ship type not able to hit out to 160km will be a ticket to frustration. To fix this problem I suggest a second change to go along with the fleetwarp nerf. Make Covops able to run a prop mod while cloaked, but make their decloak radius expand by the same percentage (or even more) as their speed is boosted. This would enable FCs to use scouts to get ahead of fleets that didn't change direction occasionally, make wrecks and debris on the battlefield meaningful, and generally make somebody who really understood how to fly their ship in space worth their weight in gold. Instead of "align to thing ---> call targets ---> see hostiles coming, laugh, punch warp" FCs would have to be constantly asking themselves "is anyone sneaking up on me right now?"
Random Interrupt The Desolate Order Brave Collective 16	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:54:04 - [28] - Quote I run a wh corp that takes in lower SP characters that most wh corps would even dare look at. This disproportionately hurts 1. WH players 2. New players 3. Anyone who doesn't want to pay for multiple accounts This change will make the new player experience and the experience of my corpmates objectively worse. If that was the intent, it will likely be successful.
Mark Yanning Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels 35	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:54:39 - [29] - Quote Guys, I don't wanna be pessimistic but it seems you are changing stuff just to change stuff, rather then adds anything interesting. I don't see anything good in the new warp change: especially in small gang fleets, will be just very annoying. You want to encourage individual player partecipation, but you will obtain opposite effect: "new fleet warp will discourage individual player participation. And discurage fleets in general, because it will be quite annoying to Fc and to new pilots". First the new (bad) icons, now this stupid warp change. From my point of view, you are working very hard to kill Eve.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn Department 10 241	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:55:08 - [30] - Quote A massive +1 for this one ! Finally a little good news amongst all the depressing stuff. If we can get something now to fix the problems with the Ishtar which won't impinge on sentry drone use on all the other ships that would be great. " They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. "-áRick. " Find out what ? "-áAbraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. "-áRick. Season four.-á-á ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Alexis Nightwish 267	Posted - 2015.06.24 16:59:34 - [31] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Fleet combat is an exciting and engaging part of EVE Online. Individual player actions are the foundation of fleets. Getting the primary target stasis webified to allow your buddies to hit for full damage. Pulling off that critical jam on enemy logistics. All actions of individual players have the potential to make or break fleets. All on-grid actions which have absolutely nothing to do with fleet warping. CCP Larrikin wrote: Fleet-warping discourages individual player participation. No, it doesn't. Fleet member participation is tactical, on-grid. Fleet commanding is strategic, recon, and off-grid. CCP Larrikin wrote: ItGÇÖs more effective to have the Fleet Commander warp the fleet around rather than each pilot warping themselves. This mostly mindless type of movement reduces the impact of each fleet memberGÇÖs actions on the outcome of the combat. Fleet member impact on combat is their participation in combat. Maneuvering the fleet into position isn't combat.[/quote] CCP Larrikin wrote: Drone assign was another example of this type of proxy gameplay that we have reduced. Apples and oranges. Drone assign was on-grid, in-combat action that did remove player involvement and my only wish was that it was reduced further than it was. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
DaReaper Net 7 2240	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:02:43 - [32] - Quote Random Interrupt wrote: I run a wh corp that takes in lower SP characters that most wh corps would even dare look at. This disproportionately hurts 1. WH players 2. New players 3. Anyone who doesn't want to pay for multiple accounts This change will make the new player experience and the experience of my corpmates objectively worse. If that was the intent, it will likely be successful. why don;t you post WHY you think this as opposed ti just randomly spewing stuff? and IC.. Brother? ;) OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 99	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:04:34 - [33] - Quote Mark Yanning wrote: Guys, I don't wanna be pessimistic but it seems you are changing stuff just to change stuff, rather then adds anything interesting. I don't see anything good in the new warp change: especially in small gang fleets, will be just very annoying. You want to encourage individual player partecipation, but you will obtain opposite effect: "new fleet warp will discourage individual player participation. And discurage fleets in general, because it will be quite annoying to Fc and to new pilots". First the new (bad) icons, now this stupid warp change. From my point of view, you are working very hard to kill Eve. Did you even read what he wrong? How does having the fleet warp to a broadcasted bookmark reduce participation? How is this worse than warping fleet to a silly FC-alt? Alexis Nightwish wrote: stuff Just because you come up with this on-grid/off-grid tactical/strategic mumbo jumbo doesn't mean it makes sense. Each player doing stuff = engagement. You can argue if it's the right kind of engagement, but it's a bit of a non-starter if you argue it's not.
Lim Hiaret Hiaret Family 4	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:08:23 - [34] - Quote Does the 'warp to bookmark' broadcast requires all fleet members to have the bookmark? Please let us set the warp speed for mixed fleets. Otherwise it is either land all at the same time or start all at the same time. You can't avoid a breakup of your forces and would have to use a grouping spot near your destination. Or is this intentional?
Sakura Nihil Stimulus Rote Kapelle 379	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:09:20 - [35] - Quote Any dev comment as to the wisdom of releasing an expansion right in the middle of the Alliance Tournament? Glory
Sven Viko VIkolander Friends and Feminists 352	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:18:09 - [36] - Quote Sakura Nihil wrote: Any dev comment as to the wisdom of releasing an expansion right in the middle of the Alliance Tournament? CCP has often made balance changes in the middle of the AT. Also, there hasn't been an "expansion" in like a year, since the fast release cycle was introduced... Also, remove fleet warp entirely.
Reagalan Amok. Goonswarm Federation 61	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:19:11 - [37] - Quote Crossposting from reddit. This whole blog screams "Let's miss the mark as hard as possible while remaining in the ballpark." Quote: Following the changes, fleet warps will still be possible but will require greater participation by fleet members, such as getting a scout into position. We already know that this is untrue. Fleet Commanders routinely dualbox a scout alt for a laundry list of reasons. What has happened is now an FC will need to probe on the alt, warp the alt to the result at 10, and then fleetwarp to the alt at 10. Will it be slower? Yes. Will it increase "individual fleet member participation"? ** no. It raises the bar on FCs, making content creators' jobs harder. Quote: The most common long range (defined as +150km) fleets seen in recent times are Slippery Petes. These are specialized Tengus that are fit with lots of ECCM, making them difficult to probe down. Probing Petes is not the issue. A single Virtue prober with a squad of interceptors effectively neuters them using squad warp. The reason Petes are the only workable sniper doctine is their bubble immunity. They are "slippery" because catching them is exceedingly hard. Any other sniper fleet is caught as soon as you land a dictor on them. Quote: The combination of on-grid combat probing and fleet-warps have choked out most other long-range doctrines. On-grid probing is only one reason. Is it too strong? yes it is. but fleet warp was never the issue. The main reason sniper fleets have disappeared is remote reps/Logistics ships. At longer ranges, turrets simply do less damage. Since Logistics ships can easily repair the damage of 3-8 hostile DPS (it varies widely due to resistances) ships at close range, moving to farther ranges just makes it worse. Take two fleets of oldschool battleship snipers and use modern Logi support and the fight would be as boring as . Nothing would die at sniper ranges one bit. Tech 3 cruisers are another major culprit here, since they can easily sig-tank and resist-tank long-range turret fire, and the new meta of TD-covered Armor T3s has rendered all turret doctrines totally obsolete (though the mainstream capsuleer hasn't recognized this yet). Sentry drones are the other major culprit since they deal a fixed damage amount (often equivalent to turret DPS at close ranges) but with a significantly greater optimal range, with better tracking, and are effectively immune to tracking disruptors. Quote: The ease of performing bomb runs has stifled the use of battleships and battlecruisers in 0.0 space. Bombers are a major factor in the dismal performance of BS doctrines but only one of many, and since the bomb travel time changes, isn't actually the main reason anymore. Bombers are not the main reason battlecruisers aren't used either. Ishtars are. The matchup is so one-sided it's comedy. Combat BCs have neither the range nor speed to catch Ishtars, and Attack BCs lose the tank/dps game since they have less of both. Sure the cost is different, but BCs are billed as "cruiser-killers" while being utterly ineffective at killing any kind of T2 cruiser that isn't explicitly fit for close-range. Quote: ...a group of dedicated and well-coordinated players can still decimate entire fleets. Of battleships. A small group still won't do to a modern Tech 3 doctrine, further discouraging BS use and encouraging T3 doctrines. Look, the whole deal of encouraging sniper doctrines is something I'm very much behind. Variety is the spice of the game. I've lead hundreds of fleets in dozens of large (200+) battles and seen and fought almost everything. With the uttermost confidence I can assert, this fleetwarp change won't do jack . The Ishtar "nerf" as it is won't do jack **. If the goal really is to bring back the fleet variety that we saw back in the brief period just after the Odyssey and Retribution expansions then we sure as hell need bigger changes. If the goal is to bring snipers back, then remote-reps need a huge dicking. If the goal is to dethrone the Ishtar, then it needs to lose its ability to effectively use sentry drones. If the goal is to make combat battlecruisers useful, then they need a way to project damage farther. If the goal is to make bombers capable of changing the game with small numbers, then they need a fundamental design change to be more effective vs modern Tech 3 doctrines, and less effective vs battleships. Finally, if the goal is to make fleet members "more responsible" for their ships, then make staying alive much harder to do. Dicking fleetwarp doesn't do this. Dicking keep-at-range or orbit would do it, but at the expense of all playability. Dicking remote reps would do this. Dicking remote reps would make snipers far more valuable. Dicking remote reps means staying alive is more than just flying the right ship and broadcasting for reps, but I don't think Eve is willing to swallow that pill.
Xindi Kraid Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 965	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:25:36 - [38] - Quote Are you doing anything to address the fact that fleet members warping separately don't match warp speed, and thus will all come out of warp at different times?
Alexis Nightwish 271	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:27:40 - [39] - Quote Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: Alexis Nightwish wrote: stuff Just because you come up with this on-grid/off-grid tactical/strategic mumbo jumbo doesn't mean it makes sense. Each player doing stuff = engagement. You can argue if it's the right kind of engagement, but it's a bit of a non-starter if you argue it's not. We have different definitions of "engagement" then. To me, "engagement" means something that is fun, draws my interest, engages me. Your definition seems to be something that makes players do something, even if it's as mundane, uninteresting, and tedious as "wait for FC to tell me to click button" which coincidentally sounds a LOT like what null blob F1 warfare is. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Vic Vorlon Aideron Robotics 27	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:29:49 - [40] - Quote I have a question about what you can broadcast as a "warp-to". You said "Along with all existing broadcastable items" Well, I regularly broadcast drones as a target so our logi can rep them. Does that mean I can now broadcast a drone as a warp-to, since it is "broadcastable". Or did you mean "existing broadcastable as warp-to items".? If not, I can see a tactic where your sniper ships with boosted drone-control range lock onto an enemy 150+km away, launch drones at them, and when they are on top of the enemy, broadcast a drone as a warp-to. Bang - you've got your warp in using a drone instead of a ship.

Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:32:06 - [41] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: We have different definitions of "engagement" then. To me, "engagement" means something that is fun, draws my interest, engages me. Your definition seems to be something that makes players do something, even if it's as mundane, uninteresting, and tedious as "wait for FC to tell me to click button" which coincidentally sounds a LOT like what null blob F1 warfare is. Initiating warp by yourself to the target you intend to kill is not fun and interesting? Are you then entitled for someone to bring the reds to your doorstep so you just undock and pew? The left of entitlement.. God..
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1741	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:32:30 - [42] - Quote FearlessLittleToaster wrote: To fix this problem I suggest a second change to go along with the fleetwarp nerf. Make Covops able to run a prop mod while cloaked, but make their decloak radius expand by the same percentage (or even more) as their speed is boosted. This would enable FCs to use scouts to get ahead of fleets that didn't change direction occasionally, make wrecks and debris on the battlefield meaningful, and generally make somebody who really understood how to fly their ship in space worth their weight in gold. Instead of "align to thing ---> call targets ---> see hostiles coming, laugh, punch warp" FCs would have to be constantly asking themselves "is anyone sneaking up on me right now?" This is a nice idea for Covert ops ships, making the decloak range 3k with ab on and 4k with MWD on would work quite nicely. It would give real flexibility to the scouting role. However, On anything other than a covert ops, the bonus would have the potential to be "unfortunate"....... There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Hendrink Collie Steel Fleet Gentlemen's.Club 36	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:34:08 - [43] - Quote Reagalan wrote: Stuff about T3s owning all other doctrines thus making any changes worthless Or they could... you know, finally get about to nerfing T3s. If you are against changes or various fleet tactics because a class of ship murder zones all other tactics, perhaps it is broken and needs a fix. They are long overdue for that and we all can agree they need significant adjustments. But yeah, as far as fleet warps go, I don't see why we couldn't just scale back the time it takes to get scan results of the enemy fleet (30 to 40 seconds even) instead of doing silly things like breaking fleet warp. I'll be ok with the changes coming up if they go through as planned, but I don't see why we need to go down this road when just adjusting scan result times would be so much less complicated and more easily received.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1900	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:40:18 - [44] - Quote Encouraging individual participation: Quote: Drone assign was another example of this type of proxy gameplay that we have reduced. Oh so it wasn't because slowcats could have perfect alpha to blow up dreads with the press of one button? Quote: fleet warps will still be possible but will require greater participation by fleet members, such as getting a scout into position. Yeah sure I'm gonna put the life of my fleet into the hands of somebody else! xD And this somebody else will have a terrible time because he will die quickly and then its the end of the fleet for him. Awesome. Besides, this doesn't increase fleet participation at all. Before your input was "Take fleet warp", then "Hit Jump". So you were hitting one button once every warp. Now you have to wait for the scout to warp, then press a button, then wait for the scout to warp, then press a button. Its the same pace. You are just doing things much more slowly. Quote: Increase the time it takes for fleets to close ranges Quote: Reduce the ease of performing a bomb run without reducing their potential damage I'm completely on-board with that, but why didn't you just nerf combat probing and bombing instead?? What about you make the gain MORE FUN instead of MORE BORING for a change? Do you realize you are a GAME developper? We already have to wait frikin HOURS with the jump changes and now we will have to wait for every single warp that we do in null because we have to warp to perches to avoid bombs and pipebombs and we have to wait for the scout to land before doing anything? Quote: We anticipate an increase in cool new doctrines being flown. Yeah no kidding, more power to kiting ships. Yaaay...... Besides, these changes do not even bring alliance bookmarks and/or better reliability of corp bookmarks, like a FIXED syncronization delay for EVERYONE. To avoid situations where half the people have it and half don't... I mean its only a string of xyz coordinates how hard can it be? People send so much character strings to so many different people instantaneously in Jita local, don't tell me this is harder than making a syncronous chat work? Signature Tanking Best Tanking Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 716	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:49:20 - [45] - Quote Thanks for broadcasting bookmarks. But I'm with posters above, your change will create uncatchable fleets / ships ... is this intentional? And if not, why do you think this is acceptable? I like the idea posted above to give covops the ability to activate a prop mod while cloaked with the price of a heavy decloak radius bloom. I'm my own NPC alt.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1142	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:49:44 - [46] - Quote To quote The Big Lebowski, "You're killing your father, Larry." Sorry, Larrikin. You are still off the mark. We have tried to tell you any number of things to make Eve a better, more engaging game. 90+ pages of feedback (although admittedly about 43 pages of that was Baltec trolling). The challenge in Eve needs to come from the opposing players, not making it harder and more tedious to do basic things in game. Listen to Reagalan, Arrendis, Alexis Nightwish, Altrue, etc. These people actually know a thing or two about playing Eve in the current environment. They are not blinded by contempt for the average Eve player. We all would love to see changes that make Eve more exciting - less tedious. Changes that make Eve more fun to play - less of a chore. Your changes are not achieving that goal. It takes a very big man to admit that he is wrong. No one will think less of you if you come up with a better solution than this halfhearted concession, which does not even come close to addressing the heart of the matter. As I said before, you want to increase participation... What is the difference between fleet warping the fleet to a scout and fleet warping the fleet to a bookmark? How is that anything other than a tedious, nonsensical role? I've already mastered the art of sitting cloaked 200km off a gate to act as a bookmark. How is your goal better than making fleets a maximum of fifty players? And or just making it so you can only squad warp. Each of those changes requires many more highly engaged players than your proposal. The former drastically changes the makeup and composition of every large fleet - in a positive direction. It automatically makes Logistics less powerful in large fleets, without huge nerfs to them as a ship class. How do your changes make sniper doctrines, apart from Slippery Petes, more viable? How is making each fleet operation take longer to move from Point A to Point B make the game more engaging? I already have to budget 3-4 hours for a single strategic operation, which may or may not result in a fight. That doesn't count the time I spent preparing as an FC. To paraphrase Altrue, "make the game more fun to play." Not more time-consuming. Not more tedious. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Greygal Redemption Road Affirmative. 449	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:51:05 - [47] - Quote While it is nice that we are finally getting the ability to broadcast stuff we didn't previously have, and this mitigates SOME of the damage these fleet warp changes will do to a huge variety of operations, play styles, and fleets, these changes are still far too drastic, cause much damage, and simply DO NOT ACHIEVE THE STATED GOALS. The inability to fleet warp to a bookmark does NOT provide ANY additional or new tactical choices or interesting game play options. It destroys many, though. Broadcast to bookmark is USELESS to an NPSI or other mixed fleet. These changes DO NOT increase fleet member agency or participation or whatever feel-good term you want to use. These changes simply put EVEN MORE work onto already overworked skirmishers and scouts. These changes do NOTHING to stop bombing camps, in fact, these changes will encourage even more cloaky sabre bubble camps, more catch and drag bubbles on gates, and even more gate camping, because once everyone in their little gang has the bookmarks, they can be just as effective at bombing as if the FC warped them all. I'm stunned by the thought that this will somehow bring life back to kiting fleets - are you kidding me? Kiting fleets are EVERYWHERE, they are flavor of the month! I'm just... ugh... I'm holding back rage and disappointment and an actual fear that the one thing I love to do more than anything else in Eve, which is run NewBro new player roams, is going to be just too much to continue running them. Myself and all of the Redemption Road community will do our best, of course, to adapt, but you are making an already challenging and heavy workload job much more challenging and much more work. Please, I beg of you, keep fleet warp to bookmark, and instead, make it so there is a penalty for fleet warping, such as fleet lands scattered over a 15-20km range. This actually would provide amazing tactical options and interesting game play choices, while achieving numerous of the stated goals. What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal. Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams! Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Onslaughtor Occult National Security Phoenix Naval Systems 152	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:51:43 - [48] - Quote Much better Tho now your missing the point of why some people use fleet warp, its to make ships land at the same time. You pretty much have the code since you can now broadcast to bookmark, might as well just go all the way. Quote: So im just going to bring this back since we are talking about broadcasts now. Q: CCP, why you do this? A: We want transfer more responsibility for the success of a fleet from its FC to its members. CCPs current design goal is to give players more agency in fleets. As many FCs and line members have said, the current proposal does not truly address this and removes semi necessary functionality. Overall a bad game design. Quote: So me and a bunch of friends found a possible solution to keeping the main design goal of getting people involved with fleets and a sense of personal agency, while maintaining our current level of fleet ability, AND adding in new ability in the form of sudo fleet formations. Current fleet warp functions are split into 2 parts. 1 Fleet warps as we know them now become emergency fleet warps. They can only warp to a few permanent objects such as the sun, planets, stations, and gates. This is the "No time to explain we are leaving" option for the fc and keeps that functionality alive while limiting it and allowing game play to form in the chase. 2 The new fleet warp mechanic is a fleet warp broadcast. This broadcast works on anything the current (pre aegis) fleetwarp can. Upon activation, everyone gets a visible broadcast saying the fc is starting a fleet warp. From there each pilot mush click on it and accept the warp at a range they choose. After some number of seconds (ten seems reasonable) the fleetwarp is initiated for everyone who signed on. After that, any fleet member may still warp to the broadcast in the fleet history. In this way, current functionality is preserved and the design goals are meet, while also adding new functionality. Programing my be required, o dear. If you agree please quote as these forums seem to bury things really quickly. combined this with the requested broadcast warp to fleet member and your pretty much all set.
Midnight Hope Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 180	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:58:11 - [49] - Quote I think you are implementing the wrong solution to your problem. And please, don't call it participation, EVE players are quite smart (or we would be playing WOW). You are trying to address a couple other issues, not participation. Bomber fleets will still decimate targets. Their cloakiness is what gives them their surprise factor. They will still de-cloak and bomb/torpedo the crap out of anything. Sniper fleets will still suffer. The FC will combat probe them with his throwaway alt. Warp at range and have his fleet warp to the alt. You will get meager improvements while hurting a whole host of players that don't play in null sov. Very disappointed you are going forward with this. -10

CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 136	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:00:37 - [50] - Quote Jyn Artan wrote: Question If you have different corps in a fleet how does the bookmark broadcast work? Can you just broadcast the location of the bookmark even if other fleet members don't have it in their bookmark list? Yes you can "just broadcast the location of the bookmark even if other fleet members don't have it in their bookmark list". Quesa wrote: I think reverting the scan probe time back to ~40 seconds would have fixed a lot. Instead your using magic to add special cases which not only increases the depth of difficulty for newer players but increases the headache for FCs. Special casing is BAD. If an object is warp-able, it should be warp-able for a fleet. Combat scanning is in a good place, when you don't already know your targets location. Players who are good at scanning down a ship 'somewhere in system' are valued by corporations, alliances and FC's alike. Combat scanning is broken when your on-grid with your target. While increasing the time it takes to scan targets down would have achieved our 2nd (long-range fleets) and 3rd goals (bombing runs), it wouldn't do anything for our 1st goal (player participation), and it would break system-wide combat scanning. Winter Archipelago wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Along with all existing broadcastable items Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by this? Does this mean that, if we broadcast a location (such as a scanned target), the fleet can warp via the broadcast? Or will this be limited to the aforementioned locations that were already warpable? Or am I missing the mark entirely? You can't broadcast a probe result as a Warp-to now, so it won't be broadcastable after the changes. Midnight Hope wrote: "Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable)" How much of a delay will it be? Will the broadcast allow members without the BM (in other corps) to get the BM and be able to warp? The delay is unrelated to corporate bookmark propagation delay. We'll tell everyone the delay between creating a bookmark and broadcasting it soon! =) Any member of the fleet will be able to warp to the broadcast, regardless of corporate or alliance membership. Minchurra wrote: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? 1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. 3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks. Sakura Nihil wrote: Any dev comment as to the wisdom of releasing an expansion right in the middle of the Alliance Tournament? AT XII Rules : Warping within the arena is NOT allowed.


Onslaughtor Occult National Security Phoenix Naval Systems 152	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:10:12 - [51] - Quote Greygal wrote: While it is nice that we are finally getting the ability to broadcast stuff we didn't previously have, and this mitigates SOME of the damage these fleet warp changes will do to a huge variety of operations, play styles, and fleets, these changes are still far too drastic, cause much damage, and simply DO NOT ACHIEVE THE STATED GOALS. The inability to fleet warp to a bookmark does NOT provide ANY additional or new tactical choices or interesting game play options. It destroys many, though. Broadcast to bookmark is USELESS to an NPSI or other mixed fleet. These changes DO NOT increase fleet member agency or participation or whatever feel-good term you want to use. These changes simply put EVEN MORE work onto already overworked skirmishers and scouts. These changes do NOTHING to stop bombing camps, in fact, these changes will encourage even more cloaky sabre bubble camps, more catch and drag bubbles on gates, and even more gate camping, because once everyone in their little gang has the bookmarks, they can be just as effective at bombing as if the FC warped them all. I'm stunned by the thought that this will somehow bring life back to kiting fleets - are you kidding me? Kiting fleets are EVERYWHERE, they are flavor of the month! I'm just... ugh... I'm holding back rage and disappointment and an actual fear that the one thing I love to do more than anything else in Eve, which is run NewBro new player roams, is going to be just too much to continue running them. Myself and all of the Redemption Road community will do our best, of course, to adapt, but you are making an already challenging and heavy workload job much more challenging and much more work. Please, I beg of you, keep fleet warp to bookmark, and instead, make it so there is a penalty for fleet warping, such as fleet lands scattered over a 15-20km range. This actually would provide amazing tactical options and interesting game play choices, while achieving numerous of the stated goals. You might be a bit to harsh on it GG. Yes it is still going to be a massive pain for new players roams and npsi groups They now vaguely achieve the stated goals, if the broadcast works like it sounds, but now it will make moving the fleet far more scattered than before, unless we also get the ability to slow our warps. Kiting fleets are the fotm but there is a difference between kitting and true sniper fleets. This change doesnt actually give much more to sniper fleets because the way bookmarks are needed for that anyway in combination with range and other variables. It does effect combat bombing yes, but only as a slow down. Bomber camping and normal camps are both buffed by this. I cant agree more on the workload part, as a npsi fc and scout I know all to well how draining this all is. Over all I am still fairly opposed to the whole idea and dont think it adds much in terms of its design goals to compensate for its failings.
Greygal Redemption Road Affirmative. 451	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:17:09 - [52] - Quote Onslaughtor, I'm still reading Larrikin's response above, and sounds like my biggest issue (broadcasting to bookmarks is useless for NPSI) is addressed, will adjust my post accordingly after finishing reading. It's an improvement, but my concerns remain. What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal. Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams! Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Lara Divinity Black Scorpion Nomads 104	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:24:25 - [53] - Quote another stupid ass change quit killing the game eve is dieing wake the hell up ccp ur changes aint improving a single damm thing is makin it worse but thats probably ur goal
Quesa Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 74	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:24:59 - [54] - Quote CCP Larrikin Quesa wrote: I think reverting the scan probe time back to ~40 seconds would have fixed a lot. Instead your using magic to add special cases which not only increases the depth of difficulty for newer players but increases the headache for FCs. Special casing is [b wrote: [/b]BAD. If an object is warp-able, it should be warp-able for a fleet. Combat scanning is in a good place, when you don't already know your targets location. Players who are good at scanning down a ship 'somewhere in system' are valued by corporations, alliances and FC's alike. Combat scanning is broken when your on-grid with your target. While increasing the time it takes to scan targets down would have achieved our 2nd (long-range fleets) and 3rd goals (bombing runs), it wouldn't do anything for our 1st goal (player participation), and it would break system-wide combat scanning. Combat probing, in the previous iteration, was done without much complaint, aside from the interesting way you had to deploy probes. 40 seconds was ok and allowed for both probing off-grid ships and on-grid ships. Currently, I can have a probe result on just about any comp before the targets are able to control their ship from the warp tunnel, that, to me, is not "in a good place". Bombing runs are highly effective because you can get to the target fast as they are all balled up after coming out of warp and unable to control their ships to align or re-warp prior to bombers already en route. This change will increase the viability of comps simply by allowing them time to not only align but to get defensive measures up and running before a bomber fleet is in warp to the target. Other improvements could be made to how fast ships enter/leave warp so they don't have to wait as long for control of their ship to return. Modifications to how bombs do damage is another way you could improve survivability of ships like reducing the damage of a bomb as you get further from the epicenter or enacting a system of penetration/resistance that I've personally floated. On your goal of addressing player participation, I believe that increasing the scan probe times would allow those newer or interceptor pilots to learn to pilot their ships and act as pings/warpins on fleets because there will be times when it's far more efficient to have an interceptor move to a spot 100km behind a target for a warpin. In a way, your change only really gives probers the added benefit (those skilled in a niche path) whereas there will be more calls for those newbie's in smaller, more agile ships to work as warp-in providers. Thus being more useful at lower skill points...which is what I assume you want.
Alexis Nightwish 274	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:26:08 - [55] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Combat scanning is in a good place, when you don't already know your targets location. Players who are good at scanning down a ship 'somewhere in system' are valued by corporations, alliances and FC's alike. Combat scanning is broken when your on-grid with your target. So disabling warping to a probe hit when you're within 500km of it never occurred to you? CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Capqu Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 1140	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:28:55 - [56] - Quote i'm concerned when the "improvements" being made to the game involve taking away features and making things more tedious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
Hendrink Collie Steel Fleet Gentlemen's.Club 36	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:31:33 - [57] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Combat scanning is broken when your on-grid with your target. So disabling warping to a probe hit when you're within 500km of it never occurred to you? I'd be ok with this. Ofcourse enemy fleet could counter by warping just off grid and then warping back in.... but stop bubbles and other counter play can counter-act that.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 72	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:35:02 - [58] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: The delay is unrelated to corporate bookmark propagation delay. We'll tell everyone the delay between creating a bookmark and broadcasting it soon! =) Any member of the fleet will be able to warp to the broadcast, regardless of corporate or alliance membership. Awsome ! That responds to many certain "fears" here i'm sure.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit 300	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:35:30 - [59] - Quote Still an awful way of going about a change. CCP consistently making something simple into something convoluted [not my own words, but I cannot think of anything better]. How am I surprised? So many other things CCP could do to promote different fleet setups yet they go for something that wannabee game designers dreamt up yesterday. Changes not really thought about that much from those who make them.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1738	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:56:48 - [60] - Quote Quick point of order: could you make probe results broadcastable, but on the same delay as bookmarks? If I am reading this correctly, the behavior will be doable by making bookmarks of your probe results anyways. Allowing a broadcast of probe results on the same delay accomplishes the same desired behavior, but frees probers from having to create a bunch of temporary bookmarks and name them in the heat of battle (or outside of the heat of battle.) It's a Quality of Life thing and nothing else. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Winter Archipelago Furtherance. 398	Posted - 2015.06.24 18:59:06 - [61] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Winter Archipelago wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Along with all existing broadcastable items Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by this? Does this mean that, if we broadcast a location (such as a scanned target), the fleet can warp via the broadcast? Or will this be limited to the aforementioned locations that were already warpable? Or am I missing the mark entirely? You can't broadcast a probe result as a Warp-to now, so it won't be broadcastable after the changes. Minchurra wrote: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? 1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. 3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks. It's still disproportionately harsher on small gangs than large, since we can't always spare the single person (which may be 15-50% of the DPS) as a dedicated prober / scout, and it's still bloody pointless to send the gimped prober ship (again, 15-50% of the fleet) in to be a suicide bookmark. I suppose it's better than it was, though. Now instead of a shotgun to the face, it's just a crowbar to the legs. Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections. Once you've made your choice, join the channels *EVE-Scout* or *Furtherance Public* and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 314	Posted - 2015.06.24 19:28:42 - [62] - Quote Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder. You are right and wrong. Yes, Slipper Petes are bubble immune and doing any kind of defensive bubbling or offensive is not helpful. No, this change does not mean they are unstoppable. You are forgetting that because bombing runs will not be super easy for the casual like now. So that means proper snipping battleships and battle cruisers will be a major threat to Slipper Petes. Petes sport no tank while conventional snipping battleships and battle cruisers do. Overall this change is very good. Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
Dominous Nolen Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels 77	Posted - 2015.06.24 19:47:06 - [63] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: You could just solve the bombing problem by making them decloak each other again under 2k and put the actual skill back in being a bomber FC and pilot. It would remedy so many of the issues you're trying to solve. Oh please no... They brought this one to table 6 months+ ago and the decloak changes were to wide reaching outside of bombers. unless they put some way to see cloaked fleet members this would be utter chaos. This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure =================================== Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
Dermeisen 20	Posted - 2015.06.24 19:47:27 - [64] - Quote +1 a good compromise - you have effective addressed: the worm-hole contingent and mission runners while excluding the bombers and fleet fights, your stated goal in fact. I hope you stick to a reasonable delay for newly created bookmarks, a few mins + should be ample. "Not the Boreworms!"
P3ps1 Max Hedion University Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2015.06.24 19:49:57 - [65] - Quote This means you cannot fleet-warp to the following: Bookmarks weGÇÖve done some magic on our code and now a wider range of objects will be broadcastable as a Warp-To: Bookmarks.
TigerXtrm Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 1174	Posted - 2015.06.24 19:51:02 - [66] - Quote In before tears... oh. Aw My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Winter Archipelago Furtherance. 399	Posted - 2015.06.24 19:51:13 - [67] - Quote Dermeisen wrote: +1 a good compromise - you have effective addressed all: the worm-hole contingent Like Hell it does. Get out of the NPC corp and try spending some time in a wormhole corp before making such an asinine statement. Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections. Once you've made your choice, join the channels *EVE-Scout* or *Furtherance Public* and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
Dermeisen 20	Posted - 2015.06.24 19:53:16 - [68] - Quote SilentAsTheGrave wrote: Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder. You are right and wrong. Yes, Slipper Petes are bubble immune and doing any kind of defensive bubbling or offensive is not helpful. No, this change does not mean they are unstoppable. You are forgetting that because bombing runs will not be super easy for the casual like now. So that means proper snipping battleships and battle cruisers will be a major threat to Slipper Petes. Petes sport no tank while conventional snipping battleships and battle cruisers do. Overall this change is very good. This comment is really over due thanks! "O wonder! How many godly doctrines are there here! How beauteous they are! O brave new world, That has such doctrines in it" "Not the Boreworms!"
Dermeisen 20	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:01:42 - [69] - Quote Winter Archipelago wrote: Dermeisen wrote: +1 a good compromise - you have effective addressed all: the worm-hole contingent Like Hell it does. Get out of the NPC corp and try spending some time in a wormhole corp before making such an asinine statement. Honestly dude you're ad hominem aside I've been playing this game an order of magnitude longer that the age of this toon. That aside why exactly is my comment asinine? "Not the Boreworms!"
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:09:00 - [70] - Quote SilentAsTheGrave wrote: Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder. You are right and wrong. Yes, Slipper Petes are bubble immune and doing any kind of defensive bubbling or offensive is not helpful. No, this change does not mean they are unstoppable. You are forgetting that because bombing runs will not be super easy for the casual like now. So that means proper snipping battleships and battle cruisers will be a major threat to Slipper Petes. Petes sport no tank while conventional snipping battleships and battle cruisers do. Overall this change is very good. Except, of course, that Petes lock battleships and ABCs much faster than Battleships and Attack Battlecruisers lock cruisers with no sig bloom. Lock, volley, warp off. Every time you warp off, the FC is repositioning his cloaky prober by warping off in a different direction, refreshing probes, warping back at 70. Fleet warp from similar direction to the cloaky @70-100, et voila! perfect warp-ins via fleet warp, Petes align, lock, volley, repeat. Edit to add: also, no, to do a real sniping battlecruiser (ie: an attack battlecruiser), they generally don't have the room for a tank. Too busy mounting tracking computers, sensor boosters, etc.

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:11:09 - [71] - Quote Dermeisen wrote: This comment is really over due thanks! "O wonder! How many godly doctrines are there here! How beauteous they are! O brave new world, That has such doctrines in it" Except for the part where he's pretty much completely wrong.
Dermeisen 21	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:14:49 - [72] - Quote Arrendis wrote: SilentAsTheGrave wrote: Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder. You are right and wrong. Yes, Slipper Petes are bubble immune and doing any kind of defensive bubbling or offensive is not helpful. No, this change does not mean they are unstoppable. You are forgetting that because bombing runs will not be super easy for the casual like now. So that means proper snipping battleships and battle cruisers will be a major threat to Slipper Petes. Petes sport no tank while conventional snipping battleships and battle cruisers do. Overall this change is very good. Except, of course, that Petes lock battleships and ABCs much faster than Battleships and Attack Battlecruisers lock cruisers with no sig bloom. Lock, volley, warp off. Every time you warp off, the FC is repositioning his cloaky prober by warping off in a different direction, refreshing probes, warping back at 70. Fleet warp from similar direction to the cloaky @70-100, et voila! perfect warp-ins via fleet warp, Petes align, lock, volley, repeat. Edit to add: also, no, to do a real sniping battlecruiser (ie: an attack battlecruiser), they generally don't have the room for a tank. Too busy mounting tracking computers, sensor boosters, etc. It's a grey area, and perhaps the balance needs a tweak, but doesn't it just bode well you old sourpuss :) "Not the Boreworms!"
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 453	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:18:07 - [73] - Quote I don't see why you want to enable more kiting tactics in general here. Fleets in the same system should have a very hard time avoiding each other. Big battles are continuing to produce smaller and smaller body counts because all the kiting doctrines allow it to be so easy to either not engage, or disengage after the fact. It creates boring, one dimensional game play. People want to see big numbers on both sides, and have a fight worth remembering. The toxic range and speed meta is killing this at every level. Now obviously, no one really has man-mode brawls any more, especially at large scale...because bombs, and because a kiting fleet will decimate a brawling one, especially in the wake of these changes. Brawling is dead in this game period now really, or at the very least a few steps closer to it. You needed a bandaid to deal with bombing runs, and you prescribed instead a game changing frontal lobotomy which still skirts around actually solving bombers. Adding more tedium to an already tedious game, where you literally need to work to squeeze the fun out of it, is really only a way to keep masochists subscribed. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:25:12 - [74] - Quote Dermeisen wrote: It's a grey area, and perhaps the balance needs a tweak, but doesn't it just bode well you old sourpuss :) No, it doesn't. They've just done their pass on T3s, and that pass did nothing about Petes. Just like the Ishtar changes don't even slightly address the idea that you just have to leave your drones w/in 70km of the enemy fleet, and then you can fart off to 150km+, (in the other direction!) still table to target, still able to give those drones 220km away from you orders to shoot new targets, etc. The idea that this does anything about Petes - by making it harder to drop your tackle on top of them - is patently ridiculous. If anything, this magnifies the usefulness of Petes, and pretty solidly establishes them as the only snipers worth using.
SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 316	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:33:34 - [75] - Quote Arrendis wrote: SilentAsTheGrave wrote: Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder. You are right and wrong. Yes, Slipper Petes are bubble immune and doing any kind of defensive bubbling or offensive is not helpful. No, this change does not mean they are unstoppable. You are forgetting that because bombing runs will not be super easy for the casual like now. So that means proper snipping battleships and battle cruisers will be a major threat to Slipper Petes. Petes sport no tank while conventional snipping battleships and battle cruisers do. Overall this change is very good. Except, of course, that Petes lock battleships and ABCs much faster than Battleships and Attack Battlecruisers lock cruisers with no sig bloom. Lock, volley, warp off. Every time you warp off, the FC is repositioning his cloaky prober by warping off in a different direction, refreshing probes, warping back at 70. Fleet warp from similar direction to the cloaky @70-100, et voila! perfect warp-ins via fleet warp, Petes align, lock, volley, repeat. Edit to add: also, no, to do a real sniping battlecruiser (ie: an attack battlecruiser), they generally don't have the room for a tank. Too busy mounting tracking computers, sensor boosters, etc. So instead of alpha'ing multiple ships before they had to reposition, they can only do one before having to warp. Sounds like they are a less effective doctrine after these changes. Petes have ZERO tank fit. None. Proper sniper battleships and battlecruisers have at least a damage control. I'll pull some real numbers of EFT tonight, but I suspect you will stab your head in the sand about that as well. Another thing is CCP has already stated that they are at the plate ready to unleash the nerd bat on Petes if they become out of control. Waiting to see if they will be a problem before needing them is a good call. Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
Dermeisen 23	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:34:20 - [76] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Dermeisen wrote: It's a grey area, and perhaps the balance needs a tweak, but doesn't it just bode well you old sourpuss :) No, it doesn't. They've just done their pass on T3s, and that pass did nothing about Petes. Just like the Ishtar changes don't even slightly address the idea that you just have to leave your drones w/in 70km of the enemy fleet, and then you can fart off to 150km+, (in the other direction!) still table to target, still able to give those drones 220km away from you orders to shoot new targets, etc. The idea that this does anything about Petes - by making it harder to drop your tackle on top of them - is patently ridiculous. If anything, this magnifies the usefulness of Petes, and pretty solidly establishes them as the only snipers worth using. Oh, tish and pish I believe that we've been given a clear indication that these kind of tweaks may well be on the cards. If all this not leading to a viable battleship doctrines then I'll be as sorely disappointed as you appear to be. "Not the Boreworms!"
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 364	Posted - 2015.06.24 20:51:41 - [77] - Quote SilentAsTheGrave wrote: So instead of alpha'ing multiple ships before they had to reposition, they can only do one before having to warp. Sounds like they are a less effective doctrine after these changes. Petes have ZERO tank fit. None. Proper sniper battleships and battlecruisers have at least a damage control. I'll pull some real numbers of EFT tonight, but I suspect you will stab your head in the sand about that as well. Another thing is CCP has already stated that they are at the plate ready to unleash the nerd bat on Petes if they become out of control. Waiting to see if they will be a problem before needing them is a good call. If you can't touch me, it doesn't matter how slowly I have to work - I'll still win. CCP's also been saying they had the nerf bat out for Ishtars for... a year now? Even this latest round of changes doesn't really hurt them much at all.
Shilalasar Dead Sky Inc. 160	Posted - 2015.06.24 21:05:38 - [78] - Quote This is much better now and will not make wormhole and NPSI life horrible. Timed fleetwarps are still a concern though. But you should really tell the name of the programmer who made the broadcasting of bookmarks possible. He did something ithin a few days that was on the wishlist for years.
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 234	Posted - 2015.06.24 21:07:38 - [79] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: I don't see why you want to enable more kiting tactics in general here. Fleets in the same system should have a very hard time avoiding each other. Big battles are continuing to produce smaller and smaller body counts because all the kiting doctrines allow it to be so easy to either not engage, or disengage after the fact. It creates boring, one dimensional game play. People want to see big numbers on both sides, and have a fight worth remembering. The toxic range and speed meta is killing this at every level. Now obviously, no one really has man-mode brawls any more, especially at large scale...because bombs, and because a kiting fleet will decimate a brawling one, especially in the wake of these changes. Brawling is dead in this game period now really, or at the very least a few steps closer to it. You needed a bandaid to deal with bombing runs, and you prescribed instead a game changing frontal lobotomy which still skirts around actually solving bombers. Adding more tedium to an already tedious game, where you literally need to work to squeeze the fun out of it, is really only a way to keep masochists subscribed. Basically, this. ^^ CAS is a brawling sort of NPSI, and we already have enough difficulty getting kiting gangs to engage. Encouraging kiting/sniping even more will simply mean fewer fights. We usually just wait for long-range gangs on the other side of a gate, but if they're smart they won't come into us and decloak within scram range. In which case, we simply go on about our business and ignore them as they have no ability to catch us either, and maybe we run into Clockwork Pineapple or similar brawlers and many explosions and much fun is had by all participants. Or if we do manage to be in a position to catch something, either via fleet warp to a scan probe result which is as often done by a line member as the FC, or some fleet member has a previous bookmark near the hostiles, the kiting gangs often bug out and we're left with only a single uneventful kill. On one hand we have game mechanics like weapon timers preventing gate jumping in order to force conflict, while on the other hand we have new game mechanics promoting conflicts from beyond 150 km promoting the ability to disengage... Seems a bit of cognitive dissonance there. Kiting gangs have the tools (speed, range) to execute their style of combat - don't take away punting from the toolbox of the brawling gang. (I guess it is a luxury for us that we can be a mobile combat force - we don't mind ignoring and bypassing a long-range fleet if we judge we can't get any kills from it. However if we were concerned about a static structure, like a TCU, I guess it'd be different - we'd have to engage regardless in which case, I suppose, kiting/sniping vs kiting/sniping it is. -shrug-)
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2250	Posted - 2015.06.24 21:15:20 - [80] - Quote You have several design goals. Why does a single change have to achieve all of them? Why can't you make some changes to tick the bombers and kiting fleet goals and then a separate change go address participation? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.

Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2255	Posted - 2015.06.24 21:23:22 - [81] - Quote 1. What about catching OGB? 2. How does this address the problem brought up in the wormhole soundcloud about the tight timing of catching PvE fleets? The same is true for my hunting style in null. In both examples you need to get either a fleet or fast tackle onto a probe result very quickly. I understand this is not desirable for large fleets but why is this a problem for small fleets in these scenarios? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Dermeisen 23	Posted - 2015.06.24 21:37:22 - [82] - Quote This reminds me of that old chestnut: hard cases make for bad law - which is to say that laying down a new framework for the health of this game necessarily requires we look beyond the exception case to the broader issues. Slippery pets are over powered but fozzisov is going to change everything. I sill think it would have been better to have retained squad warp and to to disallow automating warp for cloaked ships, but this will do. "Not the Boreworms!"
Masao Kurata Perkone Caldari State 258	Posted - 2015.06.24 21:47:48 - [83] - Quote FearlessLittleToaster wrote: To fix this problem I suggest a second change to go along with the fleetwarp nerf. Make Covops able to run a prop mod while cloaked, but make their decloak radius expand by the same percentage (or even more) as their speed is boosted. This would enable FCs to use scouts to get ahead of fleets that didn't change direction occasionally, make wrecks and debris on the battlefield meaningful, and generally make somebody who really understood how to fly their ship in space worth their weight in gold. Instead of "align to thing ---> call targets ---> see hostiles coming, laugh, punch warp" FCs would have to be constantly asking themselves "is anyone sneaking up on me right now?" Wow, that sounds like an incredibly cool role bonus, best gameplay suggestion I've heard all year, although I think to keep it simple it should be a fixed radius when using afterburners and another fixed radius when using microwarpdrives. Perhaps 5000m for afterburners, 15000m for MWD.
Masao Kurata Perkone Caldari State 258	Posted - 2015.06.24 22:01:56 - [84] - Quote After the addition of bookmark broadcasts this is... probably not game breaking to deploy any more, although it's still concerning, especially since it is not really possible to get into the same warp bubble reliably by any means but a fleet warp. That said I'm actually pretty interested in the potential of bookmark broadcasts independently of the fleet warp change. Can we also broadcast align to a bookmark? If not, please add that.
Naglerr Sanguine Penguin Rote Kapelle 47	Posted - 2015.06.24 22:14:52 - [85] - Quote Quote: As announced: Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders and Squad Commanders will only be able to fleet-warp to public objects and other fleet members. This means you cannot fleet-warp to the following: Probe Results Bookmarks Mission locations After feedback and discussion, weGÇÖve done some magic on our code and now a wider range of objects will be broadcastable as a Warp-To: Mission locations Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable) Fleet members Along with all existing broadcastable items Quote: The delay is unrelated to corporate bookmark propagation delay. We'll tell everyone the delay between creating a bookmark and broadcasting it soon! =) First, legitimate thank you to CCP for considering any change to their plans at all as a result of player feedback. I'm a bit surprised. Unfortunately this still does not make the proposed changes acceptable for me. You still can't warp to probe results(squad style or broadcast) and you still can't warp to bookmarks without waiting for whatever duration delay they are talking about adding on top of propagation time. Any delay more than the current system makes landing a target much more of an unlikely proposition. I'd be willing to adapt to the new style of play, but there is one thing that bothers me: CCP has now openly stated that they want to specifically nerf/remove the style of EVE play that I use. I fly in a very small gang with many sets of probes and we land on targets with usually single digit seconds to spare. This change will reduce and remove fights that I am currently getting when it goes live. CCP is intentionally driving this game to be one that makes initiating a fight with tackle landed on the enemy fleet much harder. Without tackle kills will simply not happen as often unless you are in a sniper fleet or something. I guess I'll take this not so subtle hint from CCP that EVE is no longer the game for me. If/when these changes are reverted/canceled then I'll probably be back. Until then I suppose I'll go do something useful with my new-found free time.
Leeluvv Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 26	Posted - 2015.06.24 22:15:43 - [86] - Quote In war you manoeuvre into battle as a formation, not as individuals. Once the fight has begun, tactical manoeuvring becomes important, but not at the expense of the formation's mission. I haven't got a clue what CCP are trying to achieve with these changes, but I'm looking forward to defensive fleets picking off the hostiles as they land, because the opposing force is no longer capable of manoeuvring as a formation.
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2255	Posted - 2015.06.24 22:18:14 - [87] - Quote Naglerr wrote: CCP has now openly stated that they want to specifically nerf/remove the style of EVE play that I use. I fly in a very small gang with many sets of probes and we land on targets with usually single digit seconds to spare. This change will reduce and remove fights that I am currently getting after the change. Pretty much sums it up for me. It is frustrating. Leave my gameplay alone. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Naglerr Sanguine Penguin Rote Kapelle 47	Posted - 2015.06.24 22:19:36 - [88] - Quote I'm not sure why a new thread was created, but the previous related discussion on this topic can be found here(original fleet warp thread): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=429367
KanmanDS Sanguine Penguin Rote Kapelle 11	Posted - 2015.06.24 22:28:59 - [89] - Quote The changes are still completely game breaking for my style of gameplay (which is very engaging for my small gang of pilots, not F1 jockeys). The changes you are making will only make it harder to get in to fights while having no impact on a ship/fleet's ability to get out of a fight. This will decrease the amount of ship explosions in the game. The reason that fleet meta evolved to 'close range only' is that fights against ships that aren't tackled is a complete waste of time. They can simply warp off when things aren't going their way. Lame. This change encourages fights where ships simply warp away before blowing up. You are creating a system where ships that do not wish to fight will be very easily capable of evading combat situations, virtually eliminating piracy in the game. If they just go to tacs over gates all the time, it will be impossible to get the fleet to them before they warp again. If they go to safe spots to evade gate camps, it will be impossible for the prober to get tackle ships to the probe results before it warps again. I have been conducting extensive piracy in HED-GP for about a year. I can assure you that the windows of opportunity to be in the right place at the right time to achieve tackle before it MWDs away or warps off is 3-8 seconds, and that's with fast-locking, fast-warping frigates. We miss tackle on about 60% of the ships we warp to (entering warp to the bubble they will be stopped in while the target itself is also in warp). That's how narrow the time margin is. We have to predict where they are warping and meet them there. We can't wait to see where they go. Introducing delays of any kind to the fleet mobility ends piracy. Too much chasing, kiting, sniping, and running around. Not enough Pew Pew. As for using probers as tackle, I will not be using 3 billion isk worth of Virtue implanted, faction-fit scanner ship with barely 1,000 ehp to tackle a T3 'unscannable' booster for a killmail of maybe 300-700 million. The risk isn't worth the reward. As stated in my previous comment on the other thread, I will be allowing all of my accounts to lapse, because this change takes away the play-style that I enjoy about this game.
Nanar DeNanardon Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 2	Posted - 2015.06.24 23:15:49 - [90] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Minchurra wrote: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? 1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. 3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks. This is still really annoying for multi-accounts mining fleet as it still deny to warp to a bookmark closed to the belt (200-300km) to warp to a choosen asteroid. And no, experimented null sec miners don't warp directly into belt.

Flaming Butterfly Black Serpent Technologies Black Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.06.24 23:43:33 - [91] - Quote Set Tengu magnetic Infusion Basin 20% optimal per level to 10%. Heavier stacking penalty for ECCM. Add "Sentry Hardpoints" for shielded mode so Rattlesnake, Domi, Geddon, Prophecy, Phoon don't have to be sitting ducks but can move taking their sentries with them at the cost of tracking and cap to keep them hovering over the shields. Sentries lose shielding when hardpointed and take 30 seconds to recall. Could be good. We're figuring out how use Drifter tech to broadcast our brainwaves to shut down station services -how tough to figure out how to get sentries to do what their guns do? Other snipers just got their jobs back so EVE isn't just "Capitals and Tengus and Ishtars OnLine... say it like "Lions and Tigers and Bears, O My!"
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2015.06.24 23:43:38 - [92] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: To quote The Big Lebowski, "You're killing your father, Larry." Sorry, Larrikin. You are still off the mark. We have tried to tell you any number of things to make Eve a better, more engaging game. 90+ pages of feedback (although admittedly about 43 pages of that was Baltec trolling). The challenge in Eve needs to come from the opposing players, not making it harder and more tedious to do basic things in game. Listen to Reagalan, Arrendis, Alexis Nightwish, Altrue, etc. These people actually know a thing or two about playing Eve in the current environment. They are not blinded by contempt for the average Eve player. We all would love to see changes that make Eve more exciting - less tedious. Changes that make Eve more fun to play - less of a chore. Your changes are not achieving that goal. It takes a very big man to admit that he is wrong. No one will think less of you if you come up with a better solution than this halfhearted concession, which does not even come close to addressing the heart of the matter. As I said before, you want to increase participation... What is the difference between fleet warping the fleet to a scout and fleet warping the fleet to a bookmark? How is that anything other than a tedious, nonsensical role? I've already mastered the art of sitting cloaked 200km off a gate to act as a bookmark. How is your goal better than making fleets a maximum of fifty players? And or just making it so you can only squad warp. Each of those changes requires many more highly engaged players than your proposal. The former drastically changes the makeup and composition of every large fleet - in a positive direction. It automatically makes Logistics less powerful in large fleets, without huge nerfs to them as a ship class. How do your changes make sniper doctrines, apart from Slippery Petes, more viable? How is making each fleet operation take longer to move from Point A to Point B make the game more engaging? I already have to budget 3-4 hours for a single strategic operation, which may or may not result in a fight. That doesn't count the time I spent preparing as an FC. To paraphrase Altrue, "make the game more fun to play." Not more time-consuming. Not more tedious. This man hits the nail on the head and sends it to the core of .. Caldari Prime. You know it's going to be the FC's alt who is the warp-to prober - making him more tired, and the fleet members, more bored. You know this will increase travel time even more after the Phoebe hack - do you really want to take away that much time from active gameplay and make it less enjoyable for people on limited time budgets? And you know it will make Petes and OGBs even more uncatchable. CCP, if you want to increase fleet engagement, please consider allowing broadcast of probe results. Has all the upside of what you want to do, and none of the downsides of your proposed plan.
Montgomery Black Exit-Strategy Exit Strategy.. 85	Posted - 2015.06.24 23:47:33 - [93] - Quote If you could broadcast a probe result as a warp to that will help the WH community alot. Currently we we use fleet warps to - Catch site runners at signatures. Eg combat probe, then fleet/squad warp a sabre on top of the result. Without fleetwarp or a warpto broadcast the site runners will escape 90% of the time if they are actively dscaning. Because by the time u land ur cov-ops on grid at the site and then get a sabre to warp to it, the site runners have seen the probes or the new wh sig you came from and are gone. We just need the ability to get a sabre or other ship with some reasonable tackle ability on grid quickly. This is not about getting the blob there its just about getting the intial tackle.
Moraguth Ranger Corp Vae. Victis. 133	Posted - 2015.06.25 00:20:40 - [94] - Quote My idea is probably absolutely horrible, especially because it is complex compared to what you've decided already. Determine the types of warping that can be done by the person's position in the fleet along these lines: Fleet Commander: Can only initiate a fleet warp to permanent celestials, stargates, stations, etc Wing Commanders: Can do FC warps and to pilots in the fleet (maybe even short term celestials like anoms?) Squad Commanders: Can do WC warps and to bookmarks, other spots on grid (maybe even probe results?) Something along these lines make it so that you have to have engaged, active, and competent (possibly FCs in training?) in the various leadership positions throughout the fleet if you want to have the full range of fleet warp options open to you. Push the more tactical capabilities further down the chain of command; leave the more strategic capabilities at the top. I got a Feature Added! Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn". It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon
2Impact Repercussus Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 00:56:59 - [95] - Quote Nanar DeNanardon wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Minchurra wrote: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? 1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. 3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks. This is still really annoying for multi-accounts mining fleet as it still deny to warp to a bookmark closed to the belt (200-300km) to warp to a choosen asteroid. And no, experimented null sec miners don't warp directly into belt. I'd like to point out that for operating mining operations in null sec, the Quote: neuts-in-system-get-out-of-here strategy usually consists on FLEET WARPING everyone EXACTLY to a POS *bookmark, or a fast-dock to station bookmark* Seriously, do you want miners to become even more defenseless? their only option to avoid harm is to get safe as soon as possible, granted that their ability to substain a fight is NONE. I'd gladly substain a small gang fight with my mining ships if ONLY they were capable of it, but they're mere sitting ducks pecking at roids, preys. Like gazelles, they're only chance of survival is warping off. You're going to literally kill thousands of accounts if a mining fleet, be it made of a multiboxer or multi-players, won't be able to get the hell out of harm way as fast as they can now. Do you really want a single real player having to sit in an Orca all the time (we're talking about hours) of a mining op just because fleet warp won't warp that ship to safety anymore? Do you realize he could only do that because this change will kill multiboxing? Do you realize consequences of this change from the perspective of non-pvpers? Do you realize that most non-pvpers are non-pvpers because the ship doesn't allow pvp? Do you think Eve is all about pvp? You should know best that the backbone of everything is made of minerals wich, like it or dislike it, come from rocks mined from miners, and no one does that because it's fun. Maybe because it's relaxing, but mostly because it's profitable, like ratting. Putting this change to work means seriously endangering the backbone of all eve economy. Because let's be serious, you don't buld SC, T and C, and thousands of the rest with fleets of 2-4 ventures....
Jenshae Chiroptera 1742	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:05:29 - [96] - Quote The compromising proposed changes also suck. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Miner Hottie Haywire. 169	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:07:04 - [97] - Quote Greygal wrote: While it is nice that we are finally getting the ability to broadcast stuff we didn't previously have, and this mitigates SOME of the damage these fleet warp changes will do to a huge variety of operations, play styles, and fleets, these changes are still far too drastic, cause much damage, and simply DO NOT ACHIEVE THE STATED GOALS. The inability to fleet warp to a bookmark does NOT provide ANY additional or new tactical choices or interesting game play options. It destroys many, though. Broadcast to bookmark is USELESS to an NPSI or other mixed fleet. EDIT: In post below, Larrikin clarified that anyone in fleet will be able to warp to a broadcasted bookmark, regardless of affiliation. I quote the relevant bits of his post below: CCP Larrikin wrote: Yes you can "just broadcast the location of the bookmark even if other fleet members don't have it in their bookmark list". Any member of the fleet will be able to warp to the broadcast, regardless of corporate or alliance membership. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. These changes DO NOT increase fleet member agency or participation or whatever feel-good term you want to use. These changes simply put EVEN MORE work onto already overworked skirmishers and scouts. These changes do NOTHING to stop bombing camps, in fact, these changes will encourage even more cloaky sabre bubble camps, more catch and drag bubbles on gates, and even more gate camping, because once everyone in their little gang has the bookmarks, they can be just as effective at bombing as if the FC warped them all. I'm stunned by the thought that this will somehow bring life back to kiting fleets - are you kidding me? Kiting fleets are EVERYWHERE, they are flavor of the month! I'm just... ugh... I'm holding back rage and disappointment and an actual fear that the one thing I love to do more than anything else in Eve, which is run NewBro new player roams, is going to be just too much to continue running them. Myself and all of the Redemption Road community will do our best, of course, to adapt, but you are making an already challenging and heavy workload job much more challenging and much more work. Please, I beg of you, keep fleet warp to bookmark, and instead, make it so there is a penalty for fleet warping, such as fleet lands scattered over a 15-20km range. This actually would provide amazing tactical options and interesting game play choices, while achieving numerous of the stated goals. Greygal for CSM. It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 367	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:08:05 - [98] - Quote 2Impact wrote: I'd like to point out that for operating mining operations in null sec, the Quote: neuts-in-system-get-out-of-here strategy usually consists on FLEET WARPING everyone EXACTLY to a POS *bookmark, or a fast-dock to station bookmark* Seriously, do you want miners to become even more defenseless? their only option to avoid harm is to get safe as soon as possible, granted that their ability to substain a fight is NONE. I'd gladly substain a small gang fight with my mining ships if ONLY they were capable of it, but they're mere sitting ducks pecking at roids, preys. Like gazelles, they're only chance of survival is warping off. You're going to literally kill thousands of accounts if a mining fleet, be it made of a multiboxer or multi-players, won't be able to get the hell out of harm way as fast as they can now. Do you really want a single real player having to sit in an Orca all the time (we're talking about hours) of a mining op just because fleet warp won't warp that ship to safety anymore? Do you realize he could only do that because this change will kill multiboxing? Do you realize consequences of this change from the perspective of non-pvpers? Do you realize that most non-pvpers are non-pvpers because the ship doesn't allow pvp? Do you think Eve is all about pvp? You should know best that the backbone of everything is made of minerals wich, like it or dislike it, come from rocks mined from miners, and no one does that because it's fun. Maybe because it's relaxing, but mostly because it's profitable, like ratting. Putting this change to work means seriously endangering the backbone of all eve economy. Because let's be serious, you don't buld SC, T and C, and thousands of the rest with fleets of 2-4 ventures.... I dunno, when my alt-corp mines, we sit a rorqual in one of our pos's in fleet - you can fleet warp to the rorqual.
2Impact Repercussus Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:10:59 - [99] - Quote Arrendis wrote: 2Impact wrote: I'd like to point out that for operating mining operations in null sec, the Quote: neuts-in-system-get-out-of-here strategy usually consists on FLEET WARPING everyone EXACTLY to a POS *bookmark, or a fast-dock to station bookmark* Seriously, do you want miners to become even more defenseless? their only option to avoid harm is to get safe as soon as possible, granted that their ability to substain a fight is NONE. I'd gladly substain a small gang fight with my mining ships if ONLY they were capable of it, but they're mere sitting ducks pecking at roids, preys. Like gazelles, they're only chance of survival is warping off. You're going to literally kill thousands of accounts if a mining fleet, be it made of a multiboxer or multi-players, won't be able to get the hell out of harm way as fast as they can now. Do you really want a single real player having to sit in an Orca all the time (we're talking about hours) of a mining op just because fleet warp won't warp that ship to safety anymore? Do you realize he could only do that because this change will kill multiboxing? Do you realize consequences of this change from the perspective of non-pvpers? Do you realize that most non-pvpers are non-pvpers because the ship doesn't allow pvp? Do you think Eve is all about pvp? You should know best that the backbone of everything is made of minerals wich, like it or dislike it, come from rocks mined from miners, and no one does that because it's fun. Maybe because it's relaxing, but mostly because it's profitable, like ratting. Putting this change to work means seriously endangering the backbone of all eve economy. Because let's be serious, you don't buld SC, T and C, and thousands of the rest with fleets of 2-4 ventures.... I dunno, when my alt-corp mines, we sit a rorqual in one of our pos's in fleet - you can fleet warp to the rorqual. seriously? because.... everyone has that, right?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 367	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:14:17 - [100] - Quote 2Impact wrote: seriously? because.... everyone has that, right? the orca you're citing could be doing the exact same thing: sitting in the pos where the fleet can be warped to him. Sure, he can't tractor in the jetcans that way, but he can still give boosts and provide safety that way.

Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6719	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:15:21 - [101] - Quote Rorqurals are pretty good to have for boosts when mining, that's true... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 3331	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:18:44 - [102] - Quote will you be able to safe a broadcasted bm via right click as fleet member? how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
2Impact Repercussus Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:31:23 - [103] - Quote Arrendis wrote: 2Impact wrote: seriously? because.... everyone has that, right? the orca you're citing could be doing the exact same thing: sitting in the pos where the fleet can be warped to him. Sure, he can't tractor in the jetcans that way, but he can still give boosts and provide safety that way. ROFL
Reagalan Amok. Goonswarm Federation 69	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:46:06 - [104] - Quote I just realized that this whole can't fleetwarp to mission sites will damage a rare pastime of mine. Every so often I find someone who wants to play this game, give them a key thing, and for their first day I run the newbee missions alongside them. Among the many things I go over is the importance of aligning to broadcasts when the FC calls for it, then fleetwarping them, often to mission sites. Newbees find fleetwarps fascinating. They also find them incredibly useful for things like POS and JB bookmarks. Or to teach them the concept of safespots. To fix on-grid combat probing, add in one modifier: the closer a scanning ship is to the target ship (not anomalies or structures), then the weaker the effective scan strength of your combat probes. It doesn't even need a code overhaul. Apply the scan function like it does now, but if the range to a scanned ship returns as less than some number (like 1Mm) then apply the scan function a second time with a reduced probe strength, with the probe strength reducion inversely proportional to the distance to the target, and display that modified scan result to the scan results panel. Call it "scan sensor interference" or something. Use an inverse rational function so the deviations get extreme at close ranges. Doing this would obliterate the whole "hostiles are on grid, bounce, probe, fleetwarp" thing while not affecting safespot probing one bit. Don't fix what isn't broken, keep fleet warp as it is right now.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 369	Posted - 2015.06.25 01:54:04 - [105] - Quote 2Impact wrote: ROFL Hey, you're the one complaining based on mining fleets warping to POS's. I'm just pointing out that you've got options - and I'm one of the people saying this change won't do what Fozzie and Larrikin say it's supposed to do.
Miner Hottie Haywire. 170	Posted - 2015.06.25 02:20:15 - [106] - Quote In days of old When devs were bold And the nerf bat was invented They were never wild They swung it mild So fvck ups were prevented It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 25	Posted - 2015.06.25 02:31:59 - [107] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Minchurra wrote: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? 1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. 3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks. So you don't nerf only combat activity, you nerf all people who use multi account for other activity lie mining, like transport,ect... they must engage warp account per account to go to each point if it's not a celestial (like a ping a 200 KM from a gate to safe move in 0.0 or to avoid bubble, or just go to a BM to have a good place to mine in huge belt of 0.0). So maybe make something like that is better : BM les of 5 min can't be BM, and less of 15 min can't be fleet warpable. Other case it's not only pvp you will ill but a lot of economic activity. You want a proof of it ? Ok, imagine a 5 to 10 account miner: 1 rorqual/orca in pos 4-9 player in belt who dig : The player must mae 4-9 ALONE WARP to go on belt. But if neutral enter on system he can fleet warp to be safe. It's just a nerf of mining speed. So an other solution could be to allow the actual fleet warp mechanism for account on same IP/legal owner.
2Impact Repercussus Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.25 03:18:51 - [108] - Quote Arrendis wrote: 2Impact wrote: ROFL Hey, you're the one complaining based on mining fleets warping to POS's. I'm just pointing out that you've got options - and I'm one of the people saying this change won't do what Fozzie and Larrikin say it's supposed to do. Arrendis, I wasn't talking about my personal mining fleet/behaviour, I was thinking about scenarios that will get a hammer that will only kill the game, and not improve it. Your statements were a troll from the beginning, cause they didn't criticized nor approved mine, but only pointed to some "absolute" that everyone should do/have, just because you do/have. Your statements apply to your mining behaviour only and don't express any scenario.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16287	Posted - 2015.06.25 04:52:24 - [109] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Minchurra wrote: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? 1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. 3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks. So you don't nerf only combat activity, you nerf all people who use multi account for other activity lie mining, like transport,ect... they must engage warp account per account to go to each point if it's not a celestial (like a ping a 200 KM from a gate to safe move in 0.0 or to avoid bubble, or just go to a BM to have a good place to mine in huge belt of 0.0). So maybe make something like that is better : BM les of 5 min can't be BM, and less of 15 min can't be fleet warpable. Other case it's not only pvp you will ill but a lot of economic activity. You want a proof of it ? Ok, imagine a 5 to 10 account miner: 1 rorqual/orca in pos 4-9 player in belt who dig : The player must mae 4-9 ALONE WARP to go on belt. But if neutral enter on system he can fleet warp to be safe. It's just a nerf of mining speed. So an other solution could be to allow the actual fleet warp mechanism for account on same IP/legal owner. Warp one miner to belt, fleet warp the rest to that miner. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Ganthrithor GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 909	Posted - 2015.06.25 04:57:53 - [110] - Quote So basically you're still going to go ahead and dump on the quality of life of people like me who run 2-4 accounts on the same grid, while offering zero corresponding benefits for anyone who (like me) don't participate in fleet warfare. Great. Pro-tip: leave squad warp alone. If you wanna nerf 250-man fleets, then nerf 250-man fleets, not 4-man gangs. Sarcasm note: I guess there is one group that will benefit from this change-- interceptor pilots! Now it will be SO EASY to get complete safety just MWD in a random direction, since no tacklers will be able to be sling-shotted on you. That's good, because interceptor pilots really need quality of life improvements.

knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 565	Posted - 2015.06.25 06:49:53 - [111] - Quote Dominous Nolen wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: You could just solve the bombing problem by making them decloak each other again under 2k and put the actual skill back in being a bomber FC and pilot. It would remedy so many of the issues you're trying to solve. Oh please no... They brought this one to table 6 months+ ago and the decloak changes were to wide reaching outside of bombers. unless they put some way to see cloaked fleet members this would be utter chaos. You must be new, because its the way it used to work and never was a problem after practice and proper squad use.
dhunpael 48	Posted - 2015.06.25 06:55:19 - [112] - Quote There are some very good idea's here I like the idea of allowing squad warping, combine this with smaller maximum fleets and you have more participation than with the proposed changes. With the changes you need ONE scout, if you use the squad warping, you need MORE specialised people. This will also help logistics to land on grid at the same time! Yes i know, not every member has to warp himself to some spot (if there isn't ONE scout) , thats true, but people afk in a fleetwarp are so funny And besides from that, try to test individual warps with TIDI at 50% or higher, just test it at CCP HQ and see how that goes. As for the probe scanning => THIS: Reagalan wrote: To fix on-grid combat probing, add in one modifier: the closer a scanning ship is to the target ship (not anomalies or structures), then the weaker the effective scan strength of your combat probes. It doesn't even need a code overhaul. Apply the scan function like it does now, but if the range to a scanned ship returns as less than some number (like 1Mm) then apply the scan function a second time with a reduced probe strength, with the probe strength reducion inversely proportional to the distance to the target, and display that modified scan result to the scan results panel. Call it "scan sensor interference" or something. Use an inverse rational function so the deviations get extreme at close ranges. Doing this would obliterate the whole "hostiles are on grid, bounce, probe, fleetwarp" thing while not affecting safespot probing one bit. Don't fix what isn't broken, keep fleet warp as it is right now. And one last remark, for anyone saying (be CCP members, ISD, CMS or just players) that you can just use an other alt, that's a plain wrong way of thinking. You want more participation? Sure, but an alt is NOT an extra player and is by definition NOT more participation but just more tedious. Where a lot of changes in the recent patches are based on the idea that things should be easier for anyone, that more people should do stuff, using alts is NOT making things easier for anyone.
Minchurra Perkone 22	Posted - 2015.06.25 07:39:30 - [113] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Minchurra wrote: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? 1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. 3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks. Well that kinda sucks. So long as I can fleet warp to a fleet member I'll just put my scouting alt at a safespot when I need to do this then.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 76	Posted - 2015.06.25 08:01:30 - [114] - Quote Minchurra wrote: Well that kinda sucks. So long as I can fleet warp to a fleet member I'll just put my scouting alt at a safespot when I need to do this then. Why does it have to be an "alt" ? Don't you have specialised people in your fleets that would love to do this role by going in to make a wrp-to point ? Don't you have talented pilot that could anticipate your wishes as an FC to position himself at the right place, at the right moment ? Do you have such poor opinion about your fleet members that you think they can't right click on a broadcast to warp themself when you ask for it ? I think this whole change opens so many possibilities i don't even know right now. That's exciting.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1150	Posted - 2015.06.25 08:04:38 - [115] - Quote Ganthrithor wrote: So basically you're still going to go ahead and dump on the quality of life of people like me who run 2-4 accounts on the same grid, while offering zero corresponding benefits for anyone who (like me) don't participate in fleet warfare. Great. Pro-tip: leave squad warp alone. If you wanna nerf 250-man fleets, then nerf 250-man fleets, not 4-man gangs. Sarcasm note: I guess there is one group that will benefit from this change-- interceptor pilots! Now it will be SO EASY to get complete safety just MWD in a random direction, since no tacklers will be able to be sling-shotted on you. That's good, because interceptor pilots really need quality of life improvements. Exactly. Yes, Larrikin already confirmed that he, like a few other very vocal folks, does not like multi-boxers or care about their concerns. Apparently it is just fine to have two-four alts doing different things (e.g. scouting/tackling interceptor, Off-Grid Booster, prober alt, and elite solo PvP main), but heaven forbid you want to warp two-four pilots to and from the same belt or anomaly. The Horror. The Horror. Meanwhile, Interceptor pilots, kiting gangs, Slippery Petes, and Off-Grid Boosters are all rejoicing over these changes. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1150	Posted - 2015.06.25 08:10:57 - [116] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Minchurra wrote: Well that kinda sucks. So long as I can fleet warp to a fleet member I'll just put my scouting alt at a safespot when I need to do this then. Why does it have to be an "alt" ? Don't you have specialised people in your fleets that would love to do this role by going in to make a wrp-to point ? Don't you have talented pilot that could anticipate your wishes as an FC to position himself at the right place, at the right moment ? Do you have such poor opinion about your fleet members that you think they can't right click on a broadcast to warp themself when you ask for it ? I think this whole change opens so many possibilities i don't even know right now. That's exciting. I have already mastered the skill of sitting cloaked 200km above a gate, so that the fleet can warp to a bounce point. I have also already mastered the skill of flying in a random direction in an interceptor, so that the fleet can warp to a rolling safe spot. No, these are not engaging roles. That is why they are done by bookmarks or alts. Yes, in large fleets, having one or two more selfless, masochistic people dedicate themselves to these roles is a possibility. Now take that down to the scale of a 5-10 man gang. You really expect one of the 5-10 people to do this as his primary job? The 5-10 man gang already has meaningful roles for all 5-10 people in the gang. And, when you cannot squad warp tacklers on to an Off-Grid Booster, kiting gang, AFK-MWDing interceptor, etc, then you cannot catch them. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Jon Hellguard X-COM 37	Posted - 2015.06.25 08:12:14 - [117] - Quote I don't like this change. It makes no sence to add this complexity on what is allowed and what not. No matter how I turn arguments. Better remove Fleetwarp completly and just add the warp to broadcast functions. Do not make weird restrictions to different types of broadcasts. After all, if a broadcasts is sent, everyone should now where it came from. There is one major benefit to fleet warp and that was timing-coordination. If you want to keep this, then build in a "Fleet Warp"-Broadcast that is acceptable by all receipients and once accepted by every pilot the fleet warps. No more "your ship warps somewhere because your FC said so". Also, if this is part of the "limit the multiboxers abilities" remove the "regroup" function as it automatically alters any ships movement without proper notifying the pilot. Even a scout that was flagged for "except from fleet warp" starts moving unwillingy. It makes sence to be able to warp to any broadcast! "I need backup", "I'm in position", "Enemy Spotted", "I will double your ISK", "Need Armor!" "Align to...", "Warp to I can't think of any broadcast that should not be warpable. What if you could broadcast an actual enemy position from a scout. Or the scout broadcasts a wormhole rather then being there himself? I know that would affect gameplay more, as snipers and such would have to take care and the 150km warp would probably need to be sized up or so. But i wanted to leave this question... Make the tell-tell sign! Be sure to visually enhance a broadcast so players now it's warpable or not! I'm not going to explain "well you can warp to this, but you can't warp to that because really know why." It should be clearly visible if a broadcast is warp-able or not. I doubt my feedback is loud enough. But for what it's worth: Your UI volks are doing a great job in making the unlogic-gamelogic easy to handle. Without them, changes like this and Fozzy Sov would be a hell to explain and understand really.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 76	Posted - 2015.06.25 08:16:50 - [118] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: I have already mastered the skill of sitting cloaked 200km above a gate, so that the fleet can warp to a bounce point. I have also already mastered the skill of flying in a random direction in an interceptor, so that the fleet can warp to a rolling safe spot. No, these are not engaging roles. That is why they are done by bookmarks or alts. Yes, in large fleets, having one or two more selfless, masochistic people dedicate themselves to these roles is a possibility. Now take that down to the scale of a 5-10 man gang. You really expect one of the 5-10 people to do this as his primary job? The 5-10 man gang already has meaningful roles for all 5-10 people in the gang. And, when you cannot squad warp tacklers on to an Off-Grid Booster, kiting gang, AFK-MWDing interceptor, etc, then you cannot catch them. Talk for your self, i'm sure pilots willing to do this role and enjoying it exist. In small gang fleets pilots are autonomous and generally good solo pilots they can take care of themselves and warp individually to broadcasted bms or their own ones.
Minchurra Perkone 22	Posted - 2015.06.25 08:23:01 - [119] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Minchurra wrote: Well that kinda sucks. So long as I can fleet warp to a fleet member I'll just put my scouting alt at a safespot when I need to do this then. Why does it have to be an "alt" ? Don't you have specialised people in your fleets that would love to do this role by going in to make a wrp-to point ? Don't you have talented pilot that could anticipate your wishes as an FC to position himself at the right place, at the right moment ? Do you have such poor opinion about your fleet members that you think they can't right click on a broadcast to warp themself when you ask for it ? I think this whole change opens so many possibilities i don't even know right now. That's exciting. Nobody wants to spend their time sitting at a safespot when they could be part of the fight. You can't wait for somebody to leave and make you a warp-in in this scenario because when you need to bail out, it needs to be now and not in 5 seconds time when you're bubbled to hell. This is why boosters are alts, probers are alts and scouts are alts. I don't have to rely on somebody talented to anticipate what I want to do when I know what I want to do and can accomplish it with my alt 100% of the time.
Taru Audeles Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2015.06.25 08:47:49 - [120] - Quote Just look at your subscriber numbers and at the online numbers. There is only so much sand that you can take away from the Sandbox before people stop playing. Your first changes were horrible and with the changes to the broadcasts this might work. But please think very carefully how miserable you wanna make the life of null sec people. Why not remove fleets complete from your so called Sandbox? Why not remove the whole WingCommander and SquadCommander mechanics when they cannot command anything.

Kendarr Zebra Corp The Bastion 48	Posted - 2015.06.25 08:56:25 - [121] - Quote Steven Ellecone wrote: I really hope this isn't the "solution" to wormholes. Not being able to fleet warp to a wormhole is a really big deal. If your whole fleet is landing at different times it's giving a huge advantage to the side that's already established on the hole. They'll easily be able to pop a few people before logi can start getting reps up. Please do not make this change without allowing wormholers to be able to fleet warp to a wormhole or you're going to really discourage wormhole pvp. I can see a lot of groups deciding to just sit in their POS rather than fight if they know they are going to lose a few ships at the beginning of a fight. That's enough to easily turn the tide on most 5-15 person fights. One side is going to establish control on a hole and the other side will be unwilling to fight unless they have superior numbers and firepower since they will be at a huge disadvantage without fleet warp. Would you not just have someone cloaked on the hole and fleet warp to them. Or fleet warp them to a cloaky at a warpable distance to the hole, align the fleet to the hole and tell everyone to warp? Mechanics change. Think outside the sandbox. Zebra-Corp
Kendarr Zebra Corp The Bastion 48	Posted - 2015.06.25 09:15:29 - [122] - Quote Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: To quote The Big Lebowski, "You're killing your father, Larry." Sorry, Larrikin. You are still off the mark. We have tried to tell you any number of things to make Eve a better, more engaging game. 90+ pages of feedback (although admittedly about 43 pages of that was Baltec trolling). The challenge in Eve needs to come from the opposing players, not making it harder and more tedious to do basic things in game. Listen to Reagalan, Arrendis, Alexis Nightwish, Altrue, etc. These people actually know a thing or two about playing Eve in the current environment. They are not blinded by contempt for the average Eve player. We all would love to see changes that make Eve more exciting - less tedious. Changes that make Eve more fun to play - less of a chore. Your changes are not achieving that goal. It takes a very big man to admit that he is wrong. No one will think less of you if you come up with a better solution than this halfhearted concession, which does not even come close to addressing the heart of the matter. As I said before, you want to increase participation... What is the difference between fleet warping the fleet to a scout and fleet warping the fleet to a bookmark? How is that anything other than a tedious, nonsensical role? I've already mastered the art of sitting cloaked 200km off a gate to act as a bookmark. How is your goal better than making fleets a maximum of fifty players? And or just making it so you can only squad warp. Each of those changes requires many more highly engaged players than your proposal. The former drastically changes the makeup and composition of every large fleet - in a positive direction. It automatically makes Logistics less powerful in large fleets, without huge nerfs to them as a ship class. How do your changes make sniper doctrines, apart from Slippery Petes, more viable? How is making each fleet operation take longer to move from Point A to Point B make the game more engaging? I already have to budget 3-4 hours for a single strategic operation, which may or may not result in a fight. That doesn't count the time I spent preparing as an FC. To paraphrase Altrue, "make the game more fun to play." Not more time-consuming. Not more tedious. This man hits the nail on the head and sends it to the core of .. Caldari Prime. You know it's going to be the FC's alt who is the warp-to prober - making him more tired, and the fleet members, more bored. You know this will increase travel time even more after the Phoebe hack - do you really want to take away that much time from active gameplay and make it less enjoyable for people on limited time budgets? And you know it will make Petes and OGBs even more uncatchable. CCP, if you want to increase fleet engagement, please consider allowing broadcast of probe results. Has all the upside of what you want to do, and none of the downsides of your proposed plan. Well sed! Zebra-Corp
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2264	Posted - 2015.06.25 09:16:50 - [123] - Quote Scouting requirements do not scale with fleet size. A small fleet requiring new dedicated scout(s) are proportionally much worse off than large fleets who require the same number of scouts. Block warfare should pay for the sins of block warfare, not small gangs. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Kendarr Zebra Corp The Bastion 48	Posted - 2015.06.25 09:19:54 - [124] - Quote Reagalan wrote: Don't fix what isn't broken, keep fleet warp as it is right now. Exactly what needs to happen. Zebra-Corp
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2015.06.25 09:32:41 - [125] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Talk for your self, i'm sure pilots willing to do this role and enjoying it exist. In small gang fleets pilots are autonomous and generally good solo pilots they can take care of themselves and warp individually to broadcasted bms or their own ones. If they are, then they are doing it already. And if they are not doing it, they should join one of the any number of alliances which promote such independent action. It's silly to think that this new speedbump in gameplay will lead to more "I was there" pilots.
Malou Hashur Ministry of War Amarr Empire 64	Posted - 2015.06.25 11:09:26 - [126] - Quote Ted McManfist wrote: Quote: The most common long range (defined as +150km) fleets seen in recent times are GÇ£Slippery PetesGÇ¥. These are specialized Tengus that are fit with lots of ECCM, making them difficult to probe down. The combination of on-grid combat probing and fleet-warps have choked out most other long-range doctrines. We expect these changes to give long-range fleets time to deploy countermeasures, such as stop-bubbles Do you guys even play this game? With everything that they have screwed up over the last year, its pretty obvious that they do not. CCP Philosophy ==>> If it works, break it. If itGÇÖs broken, leave it and break something else. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1452	Posted - 2015.06.25 11:13:50 - [127] - Quote Can you please give us a way to regular Au/s of warping, please?
Malou Hashur Ministry of War Amarr Empire 64	Posted - 2015.06.25 11:15:29 - [128] - Quote Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: CCP Larrikin, thank you for taking the feedback and modifying your proposal. I believe this set will get you much closer to promoting the individual involvement you seek to promote. You know what would make this close to perfect? Allowing fleet members to warp to a probe result. Right now, we're still stuck with the tedious and time-wasting warp to the FC alt who does the probing. If probe results will be broadcastable, it allows for individual pilot action while reducing time people are sitting on their hands. knobber Jobbler wrote: You could just solve the bombing problem by making them decloak each other again under 2k and put the actual skill back in being a bomber FC and pilot. It would remedy so many of the issues you're trying to solve. Yeah? That's more about luck than any skill, since you can't navigate around what you can't see. With the current changes, the first bomber to decloak will give away the position on the others, so will require superb coordination. Which is great. And infinitely better than your silly ideas. Mostlyharmlesss wrote: Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder. He meant other sniper doctrines - BS- and BC-based ones - which will be able to deploy those defensive measures. ThatGÇÖs the problem. These changes will not encourage people to fly more BS & BC fleets, they will be more of a pain in the ass to move than they are now. The problem lies with the fact that probing has been made so ridiculously easy. A while back it took a lot of training and skill to be a really good prober, now it takes no time to get a 100% hit and is a lot less skill intensive. All this could have been solved by making probing a real skill again. CCP Philosophy ==>> If it works, break it. If itGÇÖs broken, leave it and break something else. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
James Zimmer Furtherance. 39	Posted - 2015.06.25 11:40:15 - [129] - Quote Warp coordination will be difficult with different warp speeds (I.E when you use cruiser logistics wiyh your battleship fleet). Could be fun timing it out, though that's going to be terrible in big systems like my home in Thera. Staging locations will be more important. As others have mentioned, some way to control warp speed would be great. On the flip side, I really like the warp to broadcast thing; it's actually a small boost to mixed-corp fleets. I've run PvE fleets where our scout who located the sigs was out of corp, and transfering the bookmarks was a pain. This will make that way easier through the broadcast window after a bit of a delay.
Cypherous Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty 135	Posted - 2015.06.25 11:41:40 - [130] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: In a continued effort to make sure that the skill of every member of your fleet counts towards the fight, we are making changes to fleet warp mechanics. We've already had a torrent of feedback, and today CCP Larrikin has a dev blog with more details on what is changing. And STILL no fix for mixed fleets warp speed adjustment which the current fleet warp system is key to, when are you going to address that issue? Because it doesn't seem like you read all of the feedback in the last thread, i suggest training reading to level 1 and starting again

baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16288	Posted - 2015.06.25 11:52:58 - [131] - Quote Cypherous wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: In a continued effort to make sure that the skill of every member of your fleet counts towards the fight, we are making changes to fleet warp mechanics. We've already had a torrent of feedback, and today CCP Larrikin has a dev blog with more details on what is changing. And STILL no fix for mixed fleets warp speed adjustment which the current fleet warp system is key to, when are you going to address that issue? Because it doesn't seem like you read all of the feedback in the last thread, i suggest training reading to level 1 and starting again How about you work out a way to do it rather than rely upon CCP to do it for you? Herding cats should not be easy. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Cypherous Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty 135	Posted - 2015.06.25 11:54:32 - [132] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Cypherous wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: In a continued effort to make sure that the skill of every member of your fleet counts towards the fight, we are making changes to fleet warp mechanics. We've already had a torrent of feedback, and today CCP Larrikin has a dev blog with more details on what is changing. And STILL no fix for mixed fleets warp speed adjustment which the current fleet warp system is key to, when are you going to address that issue? Because it doesn't seem like you read all of the feedback in the last thread, i suggest training reading to level 1 and starting again How about you work out a way to do it rather than rely upon CCP to do it for you? Herding cats should not be easy. Updated my post with a suggestion, you're welcome ;)
Jezza McWaffle No Vacancies 224	Posted - 2015.06.25 12:00:53 - [133] - Quote Just a few things I would like to add and I hope you guys read this :) In terms of wormhole being able to broadcast a bookmark helps alot, however I would like to know what position within the fleet you require to do so, since it would help if anyone in fleet could broadcast a bookmark's location, that way alliances aren't penalized. I know you haven't released how long it will take to broadcast a location after it is created but for the love of god keep it below 2 minutes please! And also is this time (whatever it will be) be from when the original bookmark is made or from the time you can see it under peoples and places, since the second is very varied. Increase bookmark propagation speed, its been said 1000 times and it will be repeated 1000 times, you are only making things more difficult in W-space without any advantage it might give us. I'm all for a challenge but an unnecessary challenge is just bad. If we need to get somewhere then we almost always need to get there fast! Give us a way to control our warp speed, since if we want to bring capitals to a battle, say Triage for our logi. We will need to warp it before the rest of the fleet so it lands at the same time, rather than 1 minute behind the fleet, when our feet will be dead. While staggered warping is a viable tactic it will give rise to dictors simply cloaking in the warp direction, the triage will warp first, the moment after warp bubble goes up and sub cap fleet is dragged wherever you want it. To combat this it will mean always warping to a ping 300km above the hole or something, which is just tedious. C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 372	Posted - 2015.06.25 12:28:17 - [134] - Quote Zappity wrote: Block warfare should pay for the sins of block warfare, not small gangs. Bloc. For the love of Dog, the word is bloc. 'Block' warfare would be combat between city blocks, or cement blocks, or children's blocks. Massive alliances of multiple belligerents or potential belligerents are blocs.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16288	Posted - 2015.06.25 12:35:40 - [135] - Quote Cypherous wrote: baltec1 wrote: Cypherous wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: In a continued effort to make sure that the skill of every member of your fleet counts towards the fight, we are making changes to fleet warp mechanics. We've already had a torrent of feedback, and today CCP Larrikin has a dev blog with more details on what is changing. And STILL no fix for mixed fleets warp speed adjustment which the current fleet warp system is key to, when are you going to address that issue? Because it doesn't seem like you read all of the feedback in the last thread, i suggest training reading to level 1 and starting again How about you work out a way to do it rather than rely upon CCP to do it for you? Herding cats should not be easy. Updated my post with a suggestion, you're welcome ;) Or you could use your noggin and work out warptimes and guesstimate warp times. Frankly I would just fleet warp to a cov ops scout, I have no idea why you people are making this harder than it needs to be. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 372	Posted - 2015.06.25 12:40:35 - [136] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Or you could use your noggin and work out warptimes and guesstimate warp times. Frankly I would just fleet warp to a cov ops scout, I have no idea why you people are making this harder than it needs to be. Dude. You're better than that. C'mon. Don't make the troll so obvious that you go with the 'use your noggin' nonsense I cut to shreds in the old thread. Just go straight to the 'duh, use a cloaky' and be cool.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16288	Posted - 2015.06.25 12:50:31 - [137] - Quote Arrendis wrote: baltec1 wrote: Or you could use your noggin and work out warptimes and guesstimate warp times. Frankly I would just fleet warp to a cov ops scout, I have no idea why you people are making this harder than it needs to be. Dude. You're better than that. C'mon. Don't make the troll so obvious that you go with the 'use your noggin' nonsense I cut to shreds in the old thread. Just go straight to the 'duh, use a cloaky' and be cool. Garpa will have a tool for this if it becomes a thing Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Intel Channel Broken University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.25 12:57:38 - [138] - Quote CCP: Have you considered applying changes differently to the various levels? Namely you can gimp Fleet and Wing warps along the lines of what you are proposing, but leave squad warps more intact. This would increase fleet member interactivity and make squads like a mini fleet of their own. 0.02 isk
Captain Semper The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 74	Posted - 2015.06.25 13:10:14 - [139] - Quote You do this for BOOST snipe fleets?! What the hell! I didnt saw close bs for a ages! And you talikng about: "well, snipe not so popular"?! Do you even play yourgame? 3/4 of all doctrines ishtars! That shoots over 100km. Is it close? Or mb art-mach close? Close armor formats is a RARE! Because they just cant fight against shields long-range. MJD not helping at all. Yes, change is good. But be honest - this is not coz "nobody use snipe". EVERYBODY use snipe (100+km). NOBODY use close armor bs, because this is useless bricks that have no chanse vs shield fleets. Boost this, we want bloodbath with close armor bs because its fun!
Cypherous Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty 135	Posted - 2015.06.25 13:37:13 - [140] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Cypherous wrote: baltec1 wrote: Cypherous wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: In a continued effort to make sure that the skill of every member of your fleet counts towards the fight, we are making changes to fleet warp mechanics. We've already had a torrent of feedback, and today CCP Larrikin has a dev blog with more details on what is changing. And STILL no fix for mixed fleets warp speed adjustment which the current fleet warp system is key to, when are you going to address that issue? Because it doesn't seem like you read all of the feedback in the last thread, i suggest training reading to level 1 and starting again How about you work out a way to do it rather than rely upon CCP to do it for you? Herding cats should not be easy. Updated my post with a suggestion, you're welcome ;) Or you could use your noggin and work out warptimes and guesstimate warp times. Frankly I would just fleet warp to a cov ops scout, I have no idea why you people are making this harder than it needs to be. Work out warptimes for a fleet that involves fast tackle and a carrier that doesn't involve you sititng on a gate waiting for ages for the carrier to be far enough away that the rest of the fleet doens't arrive a decade before it, because you'll be sitting there for a while if its a long warp and you might have to fight

Corvonax Void.Tech Get Off My Lawn 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 13:41:10 - [141] - Quote TLDR: Herpa Derka heGÇÖs from the CFC! Null sec blobber thinks change is good post ignored due to being a nobody. ./throws brick. Input from a Nobody. The average line member (AKA F1 monkey) and proud member of the CFium AKA: The Imperium! Good afternoon every one, IGÇÖve been playing eve off and on for a very long time its had periods of time where IGÇÖve loved it and hated it depending on what changes have been made etc. As of late IGÇÖve been enjoying the game again and with the upcoming fozi sov (hurry the **** up) thatGÇÖs not looking to change. IGÇÖve been tagged with the CFium (CFC / Imperium) for a modest amount of time now. During which I have attempted to be an active participant in fleets and special events. The only ones of note were the most recent invasion of fountain if it can be called that and the burn Amarr event as well as home defense fleets and a few odd ball roams / pos grinds. IGÇÖm your average line member playing a few hours an evening and juggling a wife / kids / mortgage / job etc. IGÇÖm not GÇ£bad at eveGÇ¥ but IGÇÖm not great at it either. As such I wanted to chime in as I feel very strongly on some of the upcoming changes, and be honest here your average line member is the bulk of your subscriber base. Fleet warp changes and fleet participation for your average line member. I personally am glad these changes are going into effect. Every one claims that GÇ£eve is hardGÇ¥ while this is true on general understanding of the game (thereGÇÖs a lot of content given to you all at once) This is not true for other aspects of game play. In fact compared to most other MMOS out there EVEGÇÖs fleet participation is in fact substantially easier for the average pilot than even World of WarcraftGÇÖs LFR play. Low blow I know but im being honest here. This is why I feel this way. In an average fleet, I sit down behind my keybard log in buy a ship off contract fully fit if IGÇÖm lucky, or at worst take 10 or so mint purchase a GÇ£doctrineGÇ¥ ship and fittings from my local market hub. What is optimal is already decided by the fleet and I generally follow it as I want to receive the SRP (Of which the Imperiums is pretty decent) I insure the ship and double check that I have water / food and *** as your average line member wants to do well in the fleet and not be GÇ£that guyGÇ¥ who goes afk on a gate holding every one up. (Talent specs / rotations / builds are optimized in other games etc so this is not uncommon to me and in general Raid / fleet / group preparation doesnGÇÖt change much between games.) After that I join the fleet hop on coms and chill till its time to launch (this is why I go to fleets and play eve to BS with friends). Once in space the FC generally links a rally point or destination. From this point on one of two things occurs. We either free burn or go as a group gate to gate. I always pray for free burn as I like to GÇ£raceGÇ¥ other members lol silly I know but eh. Coms are usually entertaining and things are often linked in fleet / local or both and its always good lulz. Once we are on the final outbound gate GÇ£Gate is red, gate is red, gate is redGÇ¥ we regroup and from this point forward my only function is to basically press F1 or GÇ£Jump gateGÇ¥ when told to. This is where eve becomes boring still for me. I anchor up, ensure modules are online and lock what ever is broadcast pressing F1. The fight occurs, the FC does stuff I press F1 on what ever he or she broadcasts till it dies etc. I donGÇÖt warp my self. I donGÇÖt move my self. I donGÇÖt really do any thing at that point. My character is basically controlled in large part by the FC or one of 5 people in fleet. In other games you are at least responsible for GÇ£Not standing in fireGÇ¥. In eve you simply anchor up and the FC or designated anchor (logi / Ewar / Fleet etc) and they are responsible for you not standing in fire. IGÇÖm probably going to get hit with a brick but frankly eve WHEN IT COMES TO FLEET PARTICPATION is so easy I honestly think my 5 yr old could do itGÇª. Wait.. .. Yea new Imperium member huzah! NOTE: Eve is still hard donGÇÖt get me wrong but this aspect of eve has had its game play placed on one person. For all intensive purposes 2 FCGÇÖs could sit down work out ahead of time on a spreadsheet whoGÇÖs going to win based on what they are bringing and just skip the whole process. ThereGÇÖs no room for GÇ£Hero momentsGÇ¥ or even creative thinking in larger fleet engagements. I personally would love to be able to control GÇ£MYGÇ¥ own character in fleets again. Instead of just pressing F1 / anchoring up and drooling at my keys, but in order to do that a few things need changed. It may just be me, but I personally feel that I am at least of modest intelligence capable of maneuvering my character in a space combat game around the field and participating and even contributing to the engagement. I honestly think a lot of other people feel the same way. If you allow fleet warps to continue even to other members your just going to raise the bar for what it takes to be an FC. Honestly I donGÇÖt think a fleetGÇÖs success should rest squarely on 1 personGÇÖs shoulders. I play eve I should and want to be able to control my own character in these large fleets. I understand that IGÇÖm but a lowly cog in the great grinding gears but even that one cog should have a purpose and contribute. This leads me to the next Topic. Tools for the FC and other ideas.
Corvonax Void.Tech Get Off My Lawn 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 13:41:59 - [142] - Quote -------------- IDEAS -------------- A) MS paint in space plz! These may seem silly however I find it odd that FCGÇÖs have very few ways to communicate with their fleets inside of the game. We are in a future space ship game. Where are the HUDS / Markers / Waypoints etc should be all over the place. I under stand eve has the ability to add tags to specific objects in space and thatGÇÖs useful. But its currently impossible to designate a place on a grid as a GÇ£Fleet go hereGÇ¥ point. Or a line for GÇ£move along this pathGÇ¥ Or even the ability to measure from one object remotely to another. I would literally like to see a tool where you place a few GÇ£markers in spaceGÇ¥ and or various other nonwarpable objects in space. You could even go as far as to be able to connect various markers with lines etc.. Straight or arched if you wana get fancy. Hell if you want to get really useful allow for a distance number associated with the path etc. Allowing for travel times etc to be calculated between the 2 points on a grid. Eve constantly shows all these fancy visual effects on huds etc but the only thing we have to represent this in game is a flat plane with distance circles (ok thatGÇÖs useful) and some number / letter tags that are bugged to hell and back. If you expect an individual pilot to do more you have to allow for better communication between the FCGÇÖs and the line members. B) Remove orbit function but add something cool (TM?) Anchoring up is boring I get that its easy etc and keeping a group together is a big deal. But why not allow for something new? Formations / maneuvers, I donGÇÖt know something? You guys are CCP surly there is something cool you can add to make the GÇ£orbit the anchorGÇ¥ portion of a fleet more interesting. A simple and probably stupid idea from this nobody would be Squad formations. (effectively allowing anchors to only exists up to the squad leader level) Defensive, Offensive positioning. In the defensive formation you can designate 1-2 members of the squad to receive a bonus due to GÇ£over lapping shields or armor screening or what ever RP reason you wantGÇ¥ to help boost either weaker members or protect more important ships.. Hell you could get really detailed with this adding skills etc under leadership if you wanted etc. If the squad goes into this formation it sets the GÇ£keep at range distances between various membersGÇ¥ etc and roughly makes it look like they are in a formation instead of just flying around 1 ** all wily nilly. C) Buy fittings / hulls from your pree saved fitting window. Lets face it every one for the most part uses doctrine setups which are distributed to each member. Eve has the ability to pree save that fitting set up on a hull and GÇ£quick fitGÇ¥ from that saved template. Why not allow us to GÇ£quick buyGÇ¥ from that same spot? Have it list each item your about to buy in a list similar to the bulk sell list with prices and markup % etc. Allow us to limit it to GÇ£in current station / jumps etcGÇ¥ Most people shop at a market hub anyways meaning every one has all their ** for sale where your probably at anyways. This is just a quality of life change but still. 1 click buying. Simple.. IMO. D) Get rid of allocated stats and remaps. Leave implants alone just set every ones stats to a pree determined number and remove the ability to change them around. Remapping is an unneeded complicated mechanic that needs to die. Skill training should not need spreadsheets to optimize your SP / hour. ThereGÇÖs no reason for it to be this complicated. I would say remove learning implants but personally I kind of like those as they allow people to purchase an edge over the guy next to them. -------------- Closing -------------- I hope this wall of text is actually read as I put a good bit of time trying to lay my thoughts out on this subject. I love eve and hope in the future to be able to play it for a long time. I personally enjoy the way eve is heading, Sov / structure changes etc are all things that needed worked on. These and the previous changes you have made were hat made me come back and want to play eve. This game has soo much potential you just need to make aspects of it more engaging. Also.. When people say EVE is hard.. They donGÇÖt mean eve is hard to play. Functionally eve is rather simple for a RPG you can play even with less than 15 keys.. WhatGÇÖs hard about eve is coming to grips with the HUGE well of information thatGÇÖs never fully explained. You can do almost any thing in eve thatGÇÖs hard to process. Opportunities were a good start. Keep working on those, they have helped my wife a lot. Corvonax The Nobody.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1155	Posted - 2015.06.25 13:59:06 - [143] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Arrendis wrote: baltec1 wrote: Or you could use your noggin and work out warptimes and guesstimate warp times. Frankly I would just fleet warp to a cov ops scout, I have no idea why you people are making this harder than it needs to be. Dude. You're better than that. C'mon. Don't make the troll so obvious that you go with the 'use your noggin' nonsense I cut to shreds in the old thread. Just go straight to the 'duh, use a cloaky' and be cool. Garpa will have a tool for this if it becomes a thing Which is part of the reason this change is bad - it is yet another Quality of Life non-improvement which will benefit the largest and most well-organized coalitions. They will find ways to overcome the tedium, those with worse out of game support structures will suffer. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1155	Posted - 2015.06.25 14:06:01 - [144] - Quote Corvonax, if you want to take a more active role in fleet, take it. Nothing is stopping you. Fly a prober, tackler, logistics, etc. ships of the line take their place in the line of battle and shoot what they are told to shoot. Eve is naval warfare in space. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Corvonax Void.Tech Get Off My Lawn 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 14:13:17 - [145] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Corvonax, if you want to take a more active role in fleet, take it. Nothing is stopping you. Fly a prober, tackler, logistics, etc. ships of the line take their place in the line of battle and shoot what they are told to shoot. Eve is naval warfare in space. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not unhappy with being a line member I just think there is a lot that can be improved upon. I personally am for the changes coming to fleets and sov and structures etc. Also.. I just finished training into dictors \ (^_^) / up next is T3's then logi 5 and min 5. Eve has a very slow progression. It takes MONTHS to get into specific roles. Im working on it but it still takes time. Something you cant speed up or slow down sadly. Up until joining the CFium i had been an indy guy. Probably should have just bought a combat pilot but i like my toon and dont really want to fly under another name.
Dersen Lowery Scanners Live in Vain 1671	Posted - 2015.06.25 14:56:34 - [146] - Quote Corvonax: clean that stuff up and post it in Features & Ideas. I love it. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. I voted in CSM X!
Captain Semper The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 76	Posted - 2015.06.25 14:58:33 - [147] - Quote Corvonax wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Corvonax, if you want to take a more active role in fleet, take it. Nothing is stopping you. Fly a prober, tackler, logistics, etc. ships of the line take their place in the line of battle and shoot what they are told to shoot. Eve is naval warfare in space. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not unhappy with being a line member I just think there is a lot that can be improved upon. I personally am for the changes coming to fleets and sov and structures etc. Also.. I just finished training into dictors \ (^_^) / up next is T3's then logi 5 and min 5. Eve has a very slow progression. It takes MONTHS to get into specific roles. Im working on it but it still takes time. Something you cant speed up or slow down sadly. Up until joining the CFium i had been an indy guy. Probably should have just bought a combat pilot but i like my toon and dont really want to fly under another name. Naval warfare. I partly agree with this however a few additional points that can be made. Range to Logi. Range to Target. Range to Tackle. These positional requirements are currently carried by 1 man.. while in naval warfare they are carried by every ship on the line. IMO CCP is trying to make your position on the field matter again.. By making every person responsible for their position. Currently position isn't really a factor as a lot of your Macro movement is handled by 1 person meaning every one is always together all the time, while the micro movement (on grid) is handled by 1 person.. "the anchor". Someone's prob going to throw a brick at me.. But Honestly i hope they remove the ability to "anchor up".. Or at a minimum reduce it to squad level anchoring. As to the macro movement i personally feel i am more than capable of hitting "warp to X" when broadcast. W/o option to warp at scan result how will close armor-tank ships reach shield snipe ships? They have less speed, less range and niw cant unsta warp to do some dmg. Who will use close armor? Nah dont answer. I know. Nobody. Nobody will use it. Like 4 last years before (or even more). My megathrone realy forget how to fit blasters.
Hendrink Collie Steel Fleet Gentlemen's.Club 41	Posted - 2015.06.25 15:07:59 - [148] - Quote Just to more formally state things from earlier post: I understand what your going for with these fleetwarp changes, and honestly I can live with them if they go through; however, I believe there is an easier solution that won't break lots of other things along with avoiding adding un-needed layers of complexity. Solution: Not allowing fleet, wing, or squad warps to scan results IF the squad members affected are either on grid or within 500kms of the scan result. This way we can still do all our traditional fleet warps to pings, gates, etc and even allow fleets warps to scan results a significant distance off-grid without breaking the current experience for wormhole gangs. The 500kms (or even 1k km) is important because sometimes grid-foo happens, and if the restriction were JUST on-grid... people could take advantage of grid-foo. Thanks to Alexis Nightwish for the idea, just expanding it a bit.
Invisusira The Rising Stars Tactical Narcotics Team 317	Posted - 2015.06.25 15:18:45 - [149] - Quote Honestly my main concern here is that it will now take over twice as long for massive TiDi fleet battles to warp from one side of the system to the other. And that's enough to turn me off of large fleet combat for life. EVE Music
Alexis Nightwish 287	Posted - 2015.06.25 15:54:54 - [150] - Quote Corvonax wrote: Lots of good stuff from a nullsec line member who can see that his EVE gameplay will not be improved by the fleet warp nerf. While I don't agree with some of your proposed solutions (removing orbit for example will make an interceptor's job all but impossible), I thank you for the candid feedback of someone that CCP claims this change will directly benefit. Players and CCP Larrikin have stated they don't like the "anchor on FC and hit F1" style of gameplay that's prevalent in larger fleets, yet bombers, which I thought were introduced to discourage that style of gameplay, are the target of repeated nerfs. Ironically CCP nerfs fleet warp rather than iterating on it which would give the FC options other than "the whole fleet warps in at X" resulting in a clustered blob of bomber food. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers

baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16290	Posted - 2015.06.25 15:59:02 - [151] - Quote Cypherous wrote: Work out warptimes for a fleet that involves fast tackle and a carrier that doesn't involve you sititng on a gate waiting for ages for the carrier to be far enough away that the rest of the fleet doens't arrive a decade before it, because you'll be sitting there for a while if its a long warp and you might have to fight Make the carrier warp at 3au. Problem solved. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16290	Posted - 2015.06.25 16:03:00 - [152] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Which is part of the reason this change is bad - it is yet another Quality of Life non-improvement which will benefit the largest and most well-organized coalitions. They will find ways to overcome the tedium, those with worse out of game support structures will suffer. Forgive me but, shouldn't that be the case? If you want to be good shouldn't you have to put in more effort? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Nanar DeNanardon Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 4	Posted - 2015.06.25 16:04:16 - [153] - Quote If this change is done to limit big fleet, what about removing fleet and wing warp and not squad warp ? This would have less impact to PVE and mining activity but would still nerf large alliance fight.
Dermeisen 23	Posted - 2015.06.25 16:12:46 - [154] - Quote Corvonax wrote: -------------- IDEAS -------------- Opportunities were a good start. Keep working on those, they have helped my wife a lot as she's recently started playing with me. You may even consider covering more advanced game play etc. Corvonax The Nobody. Your wife is playing Eve, you are certainly not a nobody to somebody! No, kidding aside I very much enjoyed reading this cheers Design based on the assumption of unrealised potential! "Not the Boreworms!"
Dermeisen 23	Posted - 2015.06.25 16:15:12 - [155] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Corvonax, if you want to take a more active role in fleet, take it. Nothing is stopping you. Fly a prober, tackler, logistics, etc. ships of the line take their place in the line of battle and shoot what they are told to shoot. Eve is naval warfare in space. Lol suppression and repression at work my friends, someone has is a little no sense of irony "Not the Boreworms!"
Lady Nadra Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 17:08:21 - [156] - Quote I really enjoyed reading your fleet ideas Corvonax. :) MS paint in space part was my favorite. Reminds me of a football playbook with arrows and lines and stuff, too cool.
Ima Spyalt Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 17:27:06 - [157] - Quote Previous quotes are in italics due to formatting issues. Reagalan wrote: Crossposting from reddit. This whole blog screams "Let's miss the mark as hard as possible while remaining in the ballpark." Following the changes, fleet warps will still be possible but will require greater participation by fleet members, such as getting a scout into position We already know that this is untrue. Fleet Commanders routinely dualbox a scout alt for a laundry list of reasons. What has happened is now an FC will need to probe on the alt, warp the alt to the result at 10, and then fleetwarp to the alt at 10. Will it be slower? Yes. Will it increase "individual fleet member participation"? **** no. It raises the bar on FCs, making content creators' jobs harder. The most common long range (defined as +150km) fleets seen in recent times are Slippery Petes. These are specialized Tengus that are fit with lots of ECCM, making them difficult to probe down Probing Petes is not the issue. A single Virtue prober with a squad of interceptors effectively neuters them using squad warp. The reason Petes are the only workable sniper doctine is their bubble immunity. They are "slippery" because catching them is exceedingly hard. Any other sniper fleet is caught as soon as you land a dictor on them. The combination of on-grid combat probing and fleet-warps have choked out most other long-range doctrines On-grid probing is only one reason. Is it too strong? ** yes it is. but fleet warp was never the issue. The main reason sniper fleets have disappeared is remote reps/Logistics ships. At longer ranges, turrets simply do less damage. Since Logistics ships can easily repair the damage of 3-8 hostile DPS (it varies widely due to resistances) ships at close range, moving to farther ranges just makes it worse. Take two fleets of oldschool battleship snipers and use modern Logi support and the fight would be as boring as *. Nothing would die at sniper ranges one bit. Tech 3 cruisers are another major culprit here, since they can easily sig-tank and resist-tank long-range turret fire, and the new meta of TD-covered Armor T3s has rendered all turret doctrines totally obsolete (though the mainstream capsuleer hasn't recognized this yet). Sentry drones are the other major culprit since they deal a fixed damage amount (often equivalent to turret DPS at close ranges) but with a significantly greater optimal range, with better tracking, and are effectively immune to tracking disruptors. The ease of performing bomb runs has stifled the use of battleships and battlecruisers in 0.0 space* Bombers are a major factor in the dismal performance of BS doctrines but only one of many, and since the bomb travel time changes, isn't actually the main reason anymore. Bombers are not the main reason battlecruisers aren't used either. Ishtars are. The matchup is so one-sided it's comedy. Combat BCs have neither the range nor speed to catch Ishtars, and Attack BCs lose the tank/dps game since they have less of both. Sure the cost is different, but BCs are billed as "cruiser-killers" while being utterly ineffective at killing any kind of T2 cruiser that isn't explicitly fit for close-range. ..a group of dedicated and well-coordinated players can still decimate entire fleets Of battleships. A small group still won't do ** to a modern Tech 3 doctrine, further discouraging BS use and encouraging T3 doctrines. Look, the whole deal of encouraging sniper doctrines is something I'm very much behind. Variety is the spice of the game. I've lead hundreds of fleets in dozens of large (200+) battles and seen and fought almost everything. With the uttermost confidence I can assert, this fleetwarp change won't do jack . The Ishtar "nerf" as it is won't do jack **. If the goal really is to bring back the fleet variety that we saw back in the brief period just after the Odyssey and Retribution expansions then we sure as hell need bigger changes. If the goal is to bring snipers back, then remote-reps need a huge dicking. If the goal is to dethrone the Ishtar, then it needs to lose its ability to effectively use sentry drones. If the goal is to make combat battlecruisers useful, then they need a way to project damage farther. If the goal is to make bombers capable of changing the game with small numbers, then they need a fundamental design change to be more effective vs modern Tech 3 doctrines, and less effective vs battleships. Finally, if the goal is to make fleet members "more responsible" for their ships, then make staying alive much harder to do. Dicking fleetwarp doesn't do this. Dicking keep-at-range or orbit would do it, but at the expense of all playability. Dicking remote reps would do this. Dicking remote reps would make snipers far more valuable. Dicking remote reps means staying alive is more than just flying the right ship and broadcasting for reps, but I don't think Eve is willing to swallow that pill. For once I can agree with Goons and quoted for validity.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1156	Posted - 2015.06.25 17:28:18 - [158] - Quote baltec1 wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Which is part of the reason this change is bad - it is yet another Quality of Life non-improvement which will benefit the largest and most well-organized coalitions. They will find ways to overcome the tedium, those with worse out of game support structures will suffer. Forgive me but, shouldn't that be the case? If you want to be good shouldn't you have to put in more effort? Eve should not require out of game tools to do basic things. Evemon, EFT, POS manager apps, PI apps, industry spreadsheets, WH reporting tools, etc. each of them is a monument to poor game design and a terrible interface. All that stuff should be built into the Eve client. When you make changes to the game which are most easily overcome by large blocs, do not complain about large blocs controlling everything meaningful, Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Shakaran Disb4nd 0	Posted - 2015.06.25 17:49:40 - [159] - Quote And as a multibox miner I'm once more ******! The interceptor change was a big setback and now no fleet warps. I would have no problem to warp all my miners invidually, but if there is a interceptor coming or some other neut, I just don't have the time to warp all my miners out individually! Yeah, make the miners life a bit harder again...
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16290	Posted - 2015.06.25 18:15:46 - [160] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: baltec1 wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Which is part of the reason this change is bad - it is yet another Quality of Life non-improvement which will benefit the largest and most well-organized coalitions. They will find ways to overcome the tedium, those with worse out of game support structures will suffer. Forgive me but, shouldn't that be the case? If you want to be good shouldn't you have to put in more effort? Eve should not require out of game tools to do basic things. Evemon, EFT, POS manager apps, PI apps, industry spreadsheets, WH reporting tools, etc. each of them is a monument to poor game design and a terrible interface. All that stuff should be built into the Eve client. When you make changes to the game which are most easily overcome by large blocs, do not complain about large blocs controlling everything meaningful, Large, organised blocs adapt to every change better than the disorganized and solo/small. Making the game ever easier is not a good thing, if you want brainless gameplay there are countless other games out there. It about time CCP added more challenges rather than take them away. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship

Denidil Cascade Crest 643	Posted - 2015.06.25 18:19:28 - [161] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Combat scanning is broken when your on-grid with your target. So disabling warping to a probe hit when you're within 500km of it never occurred to you? ^^^^ the solution we actually need Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Corvonax Void.Tech Get Off My Lawn 6	Posted - 2015.06.25 18:45:25 - [162] - Quote Truth be told I honestly don't think the warp changes go far enough. IMO fleet warp in general should simply be removed as a tactical tool. Otherwise your going to end up with exactly whats stated above. FC's will use an alt and then fleet warp to said alt. I would even go as far as to agree with the anchor up option being removed. Let me explain further before you break out the lynch pins. - Fleet warp I understand "WHY" it was added back in the day as well as the role it currently fills. It was added to allow for the delivery of multiple ships with various warp speeds to a target area at the same time. This prevented the Hodge podge landings that resulted in logi landing before battle ships etc. It also helps reduce the number of stragglers and helps herd the proverbial cats. What needs to be addressed with these changes to not make every one hate you. 1) There needs to be a mechanism by which a fleets can decide the order they land on grid. There have been several subjection made but other options im sure are also out there. 2) There needs to be an allowance made for w space people (and general use) to group warp to Mission points / anoms / and other things that are used on a daily basis. We do not want to destroy the quality of life fleet warp offered in the non tactical sense. 3) The FCGÇÖs prober alt. While I understand a lot of FCGÇÖs will just pull out their 2nd probing character and you cant really stop them from doing it.. If they cant Fleet warp to a squad member then it becomes far less useful and still keeps the focus where they are trying to put it. FC's will still use their scouts etc to do scouting type stuff. 4) Fleet Mobility (and or ship mobility) needs reduced hard. If youGÇÖre going to reduce the ability of a fleet to traverse distances you also need to nerf the ability for fleets to stay immune to capture. There are Multiple extremely hard to catch fleet types that if left unchecked WILL dominate the meta.. ::glares at the Tengu:: A Possible solutions for these issues. 1) Special rounds? (web / scram / etc for blaster ships with substantial range for application?) Meh. ItGÇÖs a possibility but I think balance would be broken. 2) Boosting Point Ranged? Long points actually being GÇ£long?GÇ¥ 20k is not very long any more hell thatGÇÖs barley the edge of blaster range. Back in the day 20K was pretty decent. With the current GÇ£sniper rangesGÇ¥ and ships speeds your going to want like 40K + Hell look at how popular the pirate ships are with boosted point ranges. 3) S / M / L Webs / scrams / Points. In theory we have a lot of different modules with various GÇÿsizesGÇÖ so this is not a new concept in eve. Why could space engineers not find a way to boost these e-war options to substantial ranges by simply over charging or building it bigger? S / M / L webs GÇô range is increased based on ship size but effectiveness is reduced based on Size to sig. Want to web that cepter in your battle ship? S webs on a big boat etc. A alternative would be to script webs for S / M / L making sig a factor but increasing range from the current module. S / M / L Disruptors? GÇô I would probably leave the scrams in the realm of frigates but having a 40k or 60k disruptor as an option for your average line member would open up the field a bit. (H. Dictors are still a thing due to infinity point / bubble options and the specialized role they currently fill). The concept behind this idea is frankly inspired by Star Wars and the capital class interdiction ships they used. -Anchoring UP It was mentioned earlier in this post that eve is basically naval warfare in space. After considering said point I have to agree with a few stipulations. Naval warfare does not have 1 button to automatically keep all ships in the line in formation. Again this is another feature I think needs addressed but something needs done to assist those situations that GÇ£must have itGÇ¥ etc.. Orbiting a player is always useful in pvp be it for defensive or offense it has a lot of function. What became broken as the use of anchors to keep every one in a tight little group allowing for no separation etc and basically putting 1 person GÇ£drivingGÇ¥ the every one in circles. There is one blaring case that needs addressed. (In my humble opinion) Interceptors GÇ£needGÇ¥ this function. Orbit at 500 with ludicrous speed turned on is their primary defense mechanism. Possibly make this a function of the ship a special feature for them? Not even sure if thatGÇÖs possible but your going to really gimp your cepters if you remove that function. -Eve GÇ£shouldGÇ¥ be about individual player skill and drive. Not what the FC can do with your toon when you press F1 for him. (^_^) A few closings thoughts. A) If on grid probing is "broken op" then simply remove the ability to initiate warp to something you probed out on the same grid. (500k was thrown around) B) If fleet warping is the issue allowing the FC to warp to a squad member will just change "how" the Fc warps every one now that he can or cant do it any more. C) If off grid probing is what you want. IE a scout sitting there feverishly trying to lock his probes onto moving targets then why not allow him to broadcast a "warpable" target to the fleet. Not a fleet warpable target.. but just a warpable target.. Either vie overview (the clean pretty way to do it) or vie fleet history. D) The sniper T3's are going to be broken due to nullification and the inability to "catch them". If this is such an issue why not remove nullification form T3's and give it to shuttles. (this is a serious suggestion lulz) Corvonax The Nobody.
Midnight Hope Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 182	Posted - 2015.06.25 18:53:40 - [163] - Quote Since you ARE moving forward with these changes, it seems only logical that there should be a way to set the fleet's maximum warp speed (which would override the each individual ship warp speed in the fleet) or a way for each pilot to set their own warp speed instead of always defaulting to the ship's max (MOAR participation!!). Please consider implementing something that would allow a fleet to land all around the same second or two.
Ganthrithor GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 915	Posted - 2015.06.25 19:12:59 - [164] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: In small gang fleets pilots are autonomous and generally good solo pilots they can take care of themselves and warp individually to broadcasted bms or their own ones. You're right, it's good that we have a really streamlined and functional bookmark system to fall back on in this instance. OH. WAIT. ...
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16290	Posted - 2015.06.25 19:21:17 - [165] - Quote Midnight Hope wrote: Since you ARE moving forward with these changes, it seems only logical that there should be a way to set the fleet's maximum warp speed (which would override the each individual ship warp speed in the fleet) or a way for each pilot to set their own warp speed instead of always defaulting to the ship's max (MOAR participation!!). Please consider implementing something that would allow a fleet to land all around the same second or two. Fleet warp to a scout. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
jason hill Caldari Provisions Caldari State 797	Posted - 2015.06.25 20:39:02 - [166] - Quote im sensing a disturbance in the force ! ........its as though a thousand neckbeards cried out in terror ... then were silenced ! lol ccp shoving it up our jackseyes one patch at a time
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2270	Posted - 2015.06.25 20:42:16 - [167] - Quote baltec1 wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: baltec1 wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Which is part of the reason this change is bad - it is yet another Quality of Life non-improvement which will benefit the largest and most well-organized coalitions. They will find ways to overcome the tedium, those with worse out of game support structures will suffer. Forgive me but, shouldn't that be the case? If you want to be good shouldn't you have to put in more effort? Eve should not require out of game tools to do basic things. Evemon, EFT, POS manager apps, PI apps, industry spreadsheets, WH reporting tools, etc. each of them is a monument to poor game design and a terrible interface. All that stuff should be built into the Eve client. When you make changes to the game which are most easily overcome by large blocs, do not complain about large blocs controlling everything meaningful, Large, organised blocs adapt to every change better than the disorganized and solo/small. Making the game ever easier is not a good thing, if you want brainless gameplay there are countless other games out there. It about time CCP added more challenges rather than take them away. One of the stated design goals is to get pilots in large, well organised, fleets to use their brain more. This is not a problem for small fleets. Small gang and solo is already hard. If you don't use your brain you die. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Nuvia Exit-Strategy Exit Strategy.. 1	Posted - 2015.06.25 20:55:43 - [168] - Quote Hi CCP and fellow players - my 2c worth (cos its free) You have 3 goals that you want to achieve - my feedback is that 2/3 are not needed and the last one I am confused about as its an about turn from the last set of changes. Goal: Encourage individual fleet member participation I argue you miss the point of an MMO it's for people to have fun with other people creating a bench mark where you have to be 'good' or 'participate' creates barriers to entry / limits enjoyment if people want to fly and operate F1 - let them. FT Diomedes feed provided this response and it does speak for the bulk of eve players GÇ£You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. The people who simply want to join a fleet, be told where to go and what to do, are still Eve players. They still have subscriptions. They still provide content. There is ample opportunity for those people to volunteer for more active roles in fleets - in fact, every successful community encourages people to step up and be more active. Especially Imperium. Making fleet operations take longer to get from Point A to Point B will not improve the game experience. Making each fleet member prepare more bookmarks ahead of a fight will not improve the game experience. Those things make Eve more tedious. More of a chore. I do not want to be part of an Eve where there are 15K people online, but they are the most masochistic, bitter, and elitist pricks on the planet. I want to be part of an Eve where there are 50-100K people online, and they are fun-loving folks with whom I enjoy hanging out. Raising the barrier to fun will not accomplish this goal. The challenges in Eve need to come primarily from the other players, secondarily from the complex and engaging environment, but NEVER from the interface and controls available to the player." Reduce the ease of performing a bomb run without reducing their potential damage To test this I made the suggestion that you could implement a smart bomb that only damages bombs or a defender missile that shoots down incoming bombs. Both would fit in the spare highs within most BC/BS and provide fairly effective counter measures for bombs without applying the nerf bat to bombers. None of the feedback suggests to date suggests that fleets canGÇÖt counter bombers https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5844634#post5844634 Increase the time it takes for fleets to close ranges This confuses me a little you just nerfed the specialized Tengus to make them scanable and now they are scanable you want to implement difficulty in getting to them?
Leeluvv Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 31	Posted - 2015.06.25 21:30:45 - [169] - Quote If you, the pilot, want protection from being scanned down, do something about it. You know, that's why this game has options and consequences. Eve has field mods that affect a ships ability to warp. Why not add a mod or script that effects the ability of a probe to function accurately. This won't stop the fleet warping to the scanned location, but it may be 100Km off the actual target. Now the FC needs the prober to be on grid, to confirm the accuracy of the scan result. Better yet, make a scan from a ship on-grid negate the accuracy effect, so you can still get a 100% hit, but it takes more effort. If you have fast moving inties, use the inaccurate result. If you don't, then I'm afraid you'll have to wait until the scout is closer. Also, make the mod have fitting restrictions, or just make it another script for the HIC. If you want an unscannable T3, best have a HIC with you. Problem solved and no need to f*&^ with fleet warps.
helana Tsero Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 118	Posted - 2015.06.25 22:29:39 - [170] - Quote Denidil wrote: Alexis Nightwish wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Combat scanning is broken when your on-grid with your target. So disabling warping to a probe hit when you're within 500km of it never occurred to you? ^^^^ the solution we actually need +1000 for this. Just do that. Disable warping to a probe hit within 500km. Ongrid Probing issue solved . Stop using sledgehammers when a scalpel is needed. Fine with the other fleet warp nerfs... but WH space needs the ability to squad warp a sabre on top of a probe result.. It takes a hours to hunt down kills in WH space... and when we find a target (that is dscaning for ships/combats) at a probable site we wont be able to do anything anything about it... cause we wont be able to get tackle before he warps.. using a tanked scan tengu is not a solution for getting tackle in a number of C5-C6 sites.. suicide sabre is the only option. Dont be known as the Australian who caused subs to take a nose dive please.. We were all proud of having a Australian dev.. until now. "... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á \| zoonr-Korsairs \|-á QFT !

Dominous Nolen Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels 79	Posted - 2015.06.25 23:09:20 - [171] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: Dominous Nolen wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: You could just solve the bombing problem by making them decloak each other again under 2k and put the actual skill back in being a bomber FC and pilot. It would remedy so many of the issues you're trying to solve. Oh please no... They brought this one to table 6 months+ ago and the decloak changes were to wide reaching outside of bombers. unless they put some way to see cloaked fleet members this would be utter chaos. You must be new, because its the way it used to work and never was a problem after practice and proper squad use. Pretty sure I started playing well after the cloaking changes took place initially. Either way I've been on enough clusterf**k bombing runs to see things go horrible when someone forgets how to warp cloaked to the rest of their squad/wing.. let alone keep at range of the fleet and hope they don't start a chain decloak on the fleet. Like i said.. if there was a visual indicator then I'd have no problem if was ONLY affect bombers, but the changes discussed months ago were going to affect everything. This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure =================================== Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 27	Posted - 2015.06.26 00:10:32 - [172] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Dictateur Imperator wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Minchurra wrote: 1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark, or one belonging to somebody else once it has been broadcast? 1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now. 2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member. 3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks. So you don't nerf only combat activity, you nerf all people who use multi account for other activity lie mining, like transport,ect... they must engage warp account per account to go to each point if it's not a celestial (like a ping a 200 KM from a gate to safe move in 0.0 or to avoid bubble, or just go to a BM to have a good place to mine in huge belt of 0.0). So maybe make something like that is better : BM les of 5 min can't be BM, and less of 15 min can't be fleet warpable. Other case it's not only pvp you will ill but a lot of economic activity. You want a proof of it ? Ok, imagine a 5 to 10 account miner: 1 rorqual/orca in pos 4-9 player in belt who dig : The player must mae 4-9 ALONE WARP to go on belt. But if neutral enter on system he can fleet warp to be safe. It's just a nerf of mining speed. So an other solution could be to allow the actual fleet warp mechanism for account on same IP/legal owner. Warp one miner to belt, fleet warp the rest to that miner. So you agree: Nerf of mining income, you waste time to do this. More boring to mine and less rentable after change.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 376	Posted - 2015.06.26 00:55:03 - [173] - Quote Corvonax wrote: -Anchoring UP It was mentioned earlier in this post that eve is basically naval warfare in space. After considering said point I have to agree with a few stipulations. Naval warfare does not have 1 button to automatically keep all ships in the line in formation. Again this is another feature I think needs addressed but something needs done to assist those situations that GÇ£must have itGÇ¥ etc.. No, naval warfare has people dedicated to steering the ship, people dedicated to getting targeting data, people dedicated to proper weapons operation, etc etc. Naval warfare has you, as the captain, saying 'Helm, keep us in formation'. Doesn't even take a click of a mouse. Now, I understand that as a line battleship pilot, you might not feel like you have a lot to do... but the logi does. When things get hairy and a dozen broadcasts for reps come in in a second - sustained over a good 10-12-second period because people don't understand they're not the primary, they just got hit by a single bomb... yeah, we've got a lot to sort out in order to make sure we're actually getting the primary target, not the guys in a panic because they're just regular line guys who aren't paying enough attention. So if you want to take away the ability of the logistics to actually focus on their role in the fleet, then give me the 10-50 other brains that a cruiser in EVE, piloted by a capsuleer, is supposed to have as crew.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6719	Posted - 2015.06.26 02:01:16 - [174] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Corvonax wrote: -Anchoring UP It was mentioned earlier in this post that eve is basically naval warfare in space. After considering said point I have to agree with a few stipulations. Naval warfare does not have 1 button to automatically keep all ships in the line in formation. Again this is another feature I think needs addressed but something needs done to assist those situations that GÇ£must have itGÇ¥ etc.. No, naval warfare has people dedicated to steering the ship, people dedicated to getting targeting data, people dedicated to proper weapons operation, etc etc. Naval warfare has you, as the captain, saying 'Helm, keep us in formation'. Doesn't even take a click of a mouse. Now, I understand that as a line battleship pilot, you might not feel like you have a lot to do... but the logi does. When things get hairy and a dozen broadcasts for reps come in in a second - sustained over a good 10-12-second period because people don't understand they're not the primary, they just got hit by a single bomb... yeah, we've got a lot to sort out in order to make sure we're actually getting the primary target, not the guys in a panic because they're just regular line guys who aren't paying enough attention. So if you want to take away the ability of the logistics to actually focus on their role in the fleet, then give me the 10-50 other brains that a cruiser in EVE, piloted by a capsuleer, is supposed to have as crew. Do people still do that, my goodness... The one crewmember who has the emergency broadcast button should be fired ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 377	Posted - 2015.06.26 02:31:35 - [175] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Do people still do that, my goodness... The one crewmember who has the emergency broadcast button should be fired constantly. And yes. Yes he/she should.
Greygal Redemption Road Affirmative. 460	Posted - 2015.06.26 02:49:21 - [176] - Quote Midnight Hope wrote: Since you ARE moving forward with these changes, it seems only logical that there should be a way to set the fleet's maximum warp speed (which would override the each individual ship warp speed in the fleet) or a way for each pilot to set their own warp speed instead of always defaulting to the ship's max (MOAR participation!!). Please consider implementing something that would allow a fleet to land all around the same second or two. This. +101. Also, need to implement a way to optionally restrict broadcasting to only certain trusted person(s) or position(s), as in, say I only want two or three people doing the broadcasting to everyone. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time before public roams are flooded with troll broadcasting spais. Needs to be optional, though, like some kind of flag on the fleet manager window, "Allow anyone to broadcast," "Allow only [positions][pilots] to broadcast," something like that. Holding additional comments for now, as I've exceeded my wall-of-text quota for the month already What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal. Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams! Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 110	Posted - 2015.06.26 06:10:18 - [177] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Large, organised blocs adapt to every change better than the disorganized and solo/small. Making the game ever easier is not a good thing, if you want brainless gameplay there are countless other games out there. It about time CCP added more challenges rather than take them away. If organization allows disproportionate adaptation to change, shouldn't leveling the playing field then involve... less complexity? The more complex the game becomes, the more it is difficult for a small groups to survive. So.. join the blocs.. or die?
Kendarr Zebra Corp The Bastion 50	Posted - 2015.06.26 08:17:31 - [178] - Quote Invisusira wrote: Honestly my main concern here is that it will now take over twice as long for massive TiDi fleet battles to warp from one side of the system to the other. And that's enough to turn me off of large fleet combat for life. Large fleet battles are dead in fozzie sov anyway brother. They odd one or 2 will still happen but its all about small fleet warfair. Zebra-Corp
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16296	Posted - 2015.06.26 08:22:20 - [179] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: So you agree: Nerf of mining income, you waste time to do this. More boring to mine and less rentable after change. Oh no, CCP added a few more seconds on to my mining activities... Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16296	Posted - 2015.06.26 08:24:44 - [180] - Quote Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: If organization allows disproportionate adaptation to change, shouldn't leveling the playing field then involve... less complexity? The more complex the game becomes, the more it is difficult for a small groups to survive. So.. join the blocs.. or die? No. A game should reward you for being smart of punish you for being dumb. Idiots should not be protected from their own actions. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship

Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 112	Posted - 2015.06.26 10:24:33 - [181] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No. A game should reward you for being smart of punish you for being dumb. Idiots should not be protected from their own actions. There is nothing smart about forcing an FC to have to rely on alts for warp-ins as people's time is wasted waiting. There is also nothing smart about forcing a WH player who used to be an active logi/dps/recon member into a mobile bookmark. Arguably, the tedium would lower quality of gameplay for the FC, as it would of the poor WH player. Introducing idiocy into existing smart gameplay is unfortunate.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16297	Posted - 2015.06.26 11:34:40 - [182] - Quote Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: There is nothing smart about forcing an FC to have to rely on alts for warp-ins as people's time is wasted waiting. Nobody is forcing people to use alts, get dedicated pilots to do the job. Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: There is also nothing smart about forcing a WH player who used to be an active logi/dps/recon member into a mobile bookmark. Sure there is, it gives them another job other than being an F1 monkey. Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: Arguably, the tedium would lower quality of gameplay for the FC, as it would of the poor WH player. Introducing idiocy into existing smart gameplay is unfortunate. Re-introducing. It was fun and enjoyable to be a fleet scout back when we had no fleet commands at all. Its good to be bringing back content we have lost over the years in the name of catering to the lowest bar of player laziness. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Joseph Seyburn State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.06.26 12:19:29 - [183] - Quote Quote: What are the goals of these changes? Anyone? and please not the schmockbait about 'Encourage individual participation'
Greygal Redemption Road Affirmative. 461	Posted - 2015.06.26 13:29:46 - [184] - Quote While you are digging around in the code, please be magicians and code some miracles: - Greatly increase the number of bookmarks we can copy at a time, or better yet, eliminate limits on copying bookmarks. Currently, it's 10 at a time, but as the need to create and disseminate bookmark packs will be higher, making copying bookmarks less tedius would be nice.* - Make it so that anything that can be broadcast, can have a shortcut key assigned to that broadcast. For example, you can't assign "align to..." broadcast to a shortcut key. (I've been begging for the ability to assign a shortcut key to broadcasting "align to," "warp to," and "jump to" broadcasts for about four years now... eternal optimist, I guess ....) - Alliance bookmarks. * - Bookmarks that automatically expire after a set time. - Be nice if we could broadcast align/warp/jump to anomaly's (not the ones you scan out, those are signatures, right? ) Yes, I know we'll be able to broadcast warp-to-bookmark, but you can't broadcast warp-to orders to objects not in the same system as you currently, and I suspect that won't change. We've got a lot of out-of-corp/out-of-alliance scouts/skirmishers who we'll have to set up with more complete and/or new bookmark sets. Serious question: How will the large increase in separately-handled warps affect server load? Currently when we align then warp as a fleet, our warp is treated as one warp instead of 30-40 warps, all on the same server tick. (Not claiming I know anything about how the server actually handles fleet warps, but this is how it's been explained to me for years). With this change, there will be multiple warp requests across multiple server ticks, will this impact server load? What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.* Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams! Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Alexis Nightwish 292	Posted - 2015.06.26 16:17:14 - [185] - Quote Joseph Seyburn wrote: Quote: What are the goals of these changes? Anyone? and please not the schmockbait about 'Encourage individual participation' PL wanted to reduce the time it takes for a fleet to land on a combat probe hit. So Manfred Sideous of PL, Dark Razor (CCP Larrikin) of PL, and Raivi (CCP Fozzie) of PL got together to create a "solution" to this "problem." Good to see that CCP's legacy of cronyism is still alive and well, even so many years after D20. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16297	Posted - 2015.06.26 16:48:09 - [186] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: Joseph Seyburn wrote: Quote: What are the goals of these changes? Anyone? and please not the schmockbait about 'Encourage individual participation' PL wanted to reduce the time it takes for a fleet to land on a combat probe hit. So Manfred Sideous of PL, Dark Razor (CCP Larrikin) of PL, and Raivi (CCP Fozzie) of PL got together to create a "solution" to this "problem." Good to see that CCP's legacy of cronyism is still alive and well, even so many years after D20. So much tin foil in use here you could bake a potato. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 113	Posted - 2015.06.26 18:11:59 - [187] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nobody is forcing people to use alts, get dedicated pilots to do the job. You know as well as I do that FCs will get those, if they don't have them already, rather than trust the fate of fleets to random fleet members. baltec1 wrote: Sure there is, it gives them another job other than being an F1 monkey. F1 monkey WHers.. now there's an oxymoron worthy of a prize. baltec1 wrote: It was fun and enjoyable to be a fleet scout back when we had no fleet commands at all. Its good to be bringing back content we have lost over the years in the name of catering to the lowest bar of player laziness. But now we do have fleet commands. And exponentially better organization in multiple nullsec blocs. Simply wishing time to turn backwards will not see it happen.
Abby Noramel Langtang Himal 0	Posted - 2015.06.26 18:30:59 - [188] - Quote I guess I'm confused. 1st, I'm not a PvPer. 2nd I pay CCP for a lot of accounts that I mine ore at times with, it takes time to get each toon setup to mine, but I am a heavy EVE player and have always had the safety of fleet warp to keep all my ships from being ganked. Now you are saying it is not fair that I pay for many accounts and have a way of warping them all at once to safety as an active player? Why do you advertise "The power of 2" and even state mining if they are not equal? If you are removing fleet warp, remove it. But not just for the people you don't seem to care about. Be fair and remove it for everything/ everyone. Be they PvPers, PvE. WH people will suffer from this in many ways. Isn't this game to be somewhat realistic future stuff, how is "You can only fleet warp to public areas" realistic? That is just changing the game to help certain people not the whole. And if this is all going the way it looks, will those of us with multiple account that pay months at a time be allowed a refund as the multiple accounts become useless in the new change?
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16297	Posted - 2015.06.26 19:47:32 - [189] - Quote Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: You know as well as I do that FCs will get those, if they don't have them already, rather than trust the fate of fleets to random fleet members. Siad FCs will get their fleet killed/have to leave when their alt dies because their attention was elsewhere. Dedicated pilots are better than alts and you can have more of them. Again, we got along just fine without fleet warp commands before. Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: F1 monkey WHers.. now there's an oxymoron worthy of a prize. If you live in a WH then you should have more than one guy able to probe. Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: But now we do have fleet commands. And exponentially better organization in multiple nullsec blocs. Simply wishing time to turn backwards will not see it happen. We also had titans able to track frigates. Many things have been changed then changed back over the years and the world didn't end. People are using the exact same arguments they tried to use against the IS-boxer nerf. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16572	Posted - 2015.06.26 19:59:06 - [190] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: You know as well as I do that FCs will get those, if they don't have them already, rather than trust the fate of fleets to random fleet members. Siad FCs will get their fleet killed/have to leave when their alt dies because their attention was elsewhere. Dedicated pilots are better than alts and you can have more of them. Again, we got along just fine without fleet warp commands before. As I understand it fleet warping isn't even going away. It's just being trimmed a little? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"

baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16297	Posted - 2015.06.26 20:18:24 - [191] - Quote Malcanis wrote: As I understand it fleet warping isn't even going away. It's just being trimmed a little? Rather than warping the fleet to a probe result you warp a cov ops to the result then the fleet. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
TarPalantir I Evolution Northern Coalition. 12	Posted - 2015.06.26 21:04:48 - [192] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Quesa wrote: I think reverting the scan probe time back to ~40 seconds would have fixed a lot. Instead your using magic to add special cases which not only increases the depth of difficulty for newer players but increases the headache for FCs. Special casing is BAD. If an object is warp-able, it should be warp-able for a fleet. Combat scanning is in a good place, when you don't already know your targets location. Players who are good at scanning down a ship 'somewhere in system' are valued by corporations, alliances and FC's alike. Combat scanning is ~~broken~~ very easy & fast when your on-grid with your target. While increasing the time it takes to scan targets down would have achieved our 2nd (long-range fleets) and 3rd goals (bombing runs), it wouldn't do anything for our 1st goal (player participation), and it would break system-wide combat scanning. And there you have the problem - the problem that has been there for 5 years. As the system was designed, all the work is in finding out where in system the thing is, and then narrowing it down sufficiently to be able to warp to it. The design works well for the game when looking for sites, and reasonably well when looking for ships that are in system somewhere, but you aren't sure where. With fleets of any decent size, the parties involved will frequently know roughly where the opposing fleet is - or can find out fairly quickly. Once the fight starts, it is pretty obvious. No work is involved because the design of the probing system puts all the work in the finding. You can't fix this without changing the design/adding complexity, and in doing so impacting system wide scanning (site and ship). One suspects that this is the reason why the probing system remains as it was introduced in/around the Dominion release despite its impact on combat. Tar-Palantir wishes Manfred Sideous much luck pushing for a solution to problems caused by probing - he will probably need all he can get.
SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 320	Posted - 2015.06.26 21:15:11 - [193] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: Joseph Seyburn wrote: Quote: What are the goals of these changes? Anyone? and please not the schmockbait about 'Encourage individual participation' PL wanted to reduce the time it takes for a fleet to land on a combat probe hit. So Manfred Sideous of PL, Dark Razor (CCP Larrikin) of PL, and Raivi (CCP Fozzie) of PL got together to create a "solution" to this "problem." Good to see that CCP's legacy of cronyism is still alive and well, even so many years after D20. Requesting the CCP devs behind this change to tweet a pic of themselves holding a D20 dice. Thanks! Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
Dermeisen 23	Posted - 2015.06.26 21:20:43 - [194] - Quote Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nobody is forcing people to use alts, get dedicated pilots to do the job. You know as well as I do that FCs will get those, if they don't have them already, rather than trust the fate of fleets to random fleet members. baltec1 wrote: Sure there is, it gives them another job other than being an F1 monkey. F1 monkey WHers.. now there's an oxymoron worthy of a prize. baltec1 wrote: It was fun and enjoyable to be a fleet scout back when we had no fleet commands at all. Its good to be bringing back content we have lost over the years in the name of catering to the lowest bar of player laziness. But now we do have fleet commands. And exponentially better organization in multiple nullsec blocs. Simply wishing time to turn backwards will not see it happen. Trust must be earned, and to earn it you have to allow it. Therefore those FC that learn to trust their scouts, through experience, will be triumphant, and those, for whatever reason, that can't will opt for the suboptimal alt-ernative and fail. It'll be like shooting obnoxious FCs in barrel. Decreasing the neuroticism of FC is unfortunately outside of the scope of possible game changes, . "Not the Boreworms!"
Alexis Nightwish 293	Posted - 2015.06.26 22:26:45 - [195] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Alexis Nightwish wrote: Joseph Seyburn wrote: Quote: What are the goals of these changes? Anyone? and please not the schmockbait about 'Encourage individual participation' PL wanted to reduce the time it takes for a fleet to land on a combat probe hit. So Manfred Sideous of PL, Dark Razor (CCP Larrikin) of PL, and Raivi (CCP Fozzie) of PL got together to create a "solution" to this "problem." Good to see that CCP's legacy of cronyism is still alive and well, even so many years after D20. So much tin foil in use here you could bake a potato. I had a bet with myself regarding how long it would take for someone to say "tin foil." I bet 1hr, but it only took 30 minutes. Oh well. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 379	Posted - 2015.06.26 22:52:50 - [196] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: baltec1 wrote: Alexis Nightwish wrote: Joseph Seyburn wrote: Quote: What are the goals of these changes? Anyone? and please not the schmockbait about 'Encourage individual participation' PL wanted to reduce the time it takes for a fleet to land on a combat probe hit. So Manfred Sideous of PL, Dark Razor (CCP Larrikin) of PL, and Raivi (CCP Fozzie) of PL got together to create a "solution" to this "problem." Good to see that CCP's legacy of cronyism is still alive and well, even so many years after D20. So much tin foil in use here you could bake a potato. I had a bet with myself regarding how long it would take for someone to say "tin foil." I bet 1hr, but it only took 30 minutes. Oh well. I'm just not sure how you think this reduces the time it takes for a fleet to land on a probe hit. I mean, if you'd said 'PL's stock in trade has been caps and supers so long, the ex-PL devs think everyone's doing as little as the guys in an Aeon blob are', I might've bought that...
Rat Scout Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2015.06.26 23:49:34 - [197] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: baltec1 wrote: Dictateur Imperator wrote: [quote=CCP Larrikin] [quote=Minchurra]1. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a fleet member as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click watch list > Warp fleet to) 2. Can I fleet warp my fleet to a personal bookmark I made a couple years ago as I can now, or does it require extra steps? (Right click in space > Warp fleet to) 3. Can I fleet ..... Blah Blah Blah.... Warp one miner to belt, fleet warp the rest to that miner. So you agree: Nerf of mining income, you waste time to do this. More boring to mine and less rentable after change. Bolded and underlined the part that proves this change is a positive one.
SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 320	Posted - 2015.06.27 00:44:42 - [198] - Quote Joseph Seyburn wrote: Quote: What are the goals of these changes? Anyone? and please not the schmockbait about 'Encourage individual participation' It has been stated many times in this thread. From in depth analysis to simple basic words in short sentences for the mostly brain dead. Just because you stick your fingers in your ears and run around in circles screaming, 'la-la-la I can't hear you!', doesn't mean it has not been said. Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
Alexis Nightwish 293	Posted - 2015.06.27 01:00:10 - [199] - Quote Arrendis wrote: I'm just not sure how you think this reduces the time it takes for a fleet to land on a probe hit. I mean, if you'd said 'PL's stock in trade has been caps and supers so long, the ex-PL devs think everyone's doing as little as the guys in an Aeon blob are', I might've bought that... Doh! I meant increase. Increase the time. lol nice catch. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
kraken11 jensen The Gallant Collective Requiem Eternal 89	Posted - 2015.06.27 08:30:18 - [200] - Quote is it that hard to get for ccp to not change something that works just fine.

Delt0r Garsk Shits N Giggles 394	Posted - 2015.06.27 08:46:43 - [201] - Quote I didn't read the whole thread. But over all these changes more or less deals completely with my concerns. So now this change gets a +1 from me. Have you considered setting minimum warp distance to 300km or something. 150km always seems small. But for the love of god, leave orbit, keep at range etc. Since flying your ship is not just position it is all other things you have to manage and this is not god dam star citizen, so don't go there. Death and Glory! Well fun is also good.
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 193	Posted - 2015.06.27 13:40:50 - [202] - Quote First of all why do k-spacers still have fleet warps to gates and stations? They are right there on virtualy everyones overview. I think they should also be exempted from fleet warps. Most fight happens on gates and stations anyway. Why should the guys on the station/gate be the only one in a fight that can not fleet warp to the opposing side? No local in null sec would fix everything! Fleet warp proposal = the rubix cube is back into eve especialy the second part of the saying.
Eve Back Online Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.06.27 21:14:46 - [203] - Quote Thanks CCP. I'll return the favor by unsubbing any mining alts I run while doing homework. Thats what I get for trying to come back to Eve.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16304	Posted - 2015.06.27 21:24:37 - [204] - Quote Eve Back Online wrote: Thanks CCP. I'll return the favor by unsubbing any mining alts I run while doing homework. Thats what I get for trying to come back to Eve. No you won't. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
kraken11 jensen The Gallant Collective Requiem Eternal 91	Posted - 2015.06.27 21:32:19 - [205] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Eve Back Online wrote: Thanks CCP. I'll return the favor by unsubbing any mining alts I run while doing homework. Thats what I get for trying to come back to Eve. No you won't. I know people who have quitted eve because off changes ccp have made, so never say never. if eve become a too big pain in the ass, (like becoming more work) ... etc. you know. then I understand if people quit/unsub'etc.
Miner Hottie Haywire. 174	Posted - 2015.06.27 23:56:08 - [206] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: Joseph Seyburn wrote: Quote: What are the goals of these changes? Anyone? and please not the schmockbait about 'Encourage individual participation' PL wanted to ~~reduce~~ [edit] increase the time it takes for a fleet to land on a combat probe hit. So Manfred Sideous of PL, Dark Razor (CCP Larrikin) of PL, and Raivi (CCP Fozzie) of PL got together to create a "solution" to this "problem." Good to see that CCP's legacy of cronyism is still alive and well, even so many years after D20. I thought CCP T20 was the dev implicated in scandal? It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 113	Posted - 2015.06.28 02:34:55 - [207] - Quote kraken11 jensen wrote: I know people who have quitted eve because off changes ccp have made, so never say never. if eve become a too big pain in the ass, (like becoming more work) ... etc. you know. then I understand if people quit/unsub'etc. Same here. A bunch of experienced folks have just had it over the last two years, with the constant unnecessary changes that don't really do much in terms of improving game experience, but make the game more of a chore..
Rekatan We Heart U 12	Posted - 2015.06.28 04:13:50 - [208] - Quote This just feels like adding another layer to the already convoluted "solution". People are breathing a sigh of relief because this is a slightly less destructive iteration of the original concept, but the core concept is still entirely flawed so at this point it feels like we're just beating our heads against a wall. If you want to remove fleet warp, which would potentially be incredibly beneficial, then just remove fleet warp and do it right, with proper features released ahead of time such as 0 bookmark propagation delay, alliance bookmarks, etc. You already started with an ill conceived half measure, and now you're adding another level of complication to an already unnecessarily complicated change. It feels like we're providing feedback ad nauseam at this point. If this hairbrained idea is on rails then I guess we're just going to have to figure out how to deal with the annoyances it creates. All hail our new Slippery Pete overlords.
Dictateur Imperator Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 27	Posted - 2015.06.28 12:30:10 - [209] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Dictateur Imperator wrote: So you agree: Nerf of mining income, you waste time to do this. More boring to mine and less rentable after change. Oh no, CCP added a few more seconds on to my mining activities... CCP reduce income of mining , so how you call it ? it's a nerf of income. It's few sec each rotation at end you loose minutes. CCP have think this change for pvp and forget a lot of player use it... not for pvp but for some industrial thing. Maybe CCP must remimber they call the game a "sandbox" so when they make 1 "pvp" change it's impact all game play, not only pew pew. Allow fleet warp to BM in anomaly , or allow fleet warp for people in same ip/official owner, problem solve.
Abla Tive 95	Posted - 2015.06.28 15:41:14 - [210] - Quote As a mission runner, I approve of this change.

Kalel Nimrott Sentu Demina Corpa 1158	Posted - 2015.06.28 20:46:32 - [211] - Quote I Don't like it. The delay is aweful in some cases. This is now 3/4 terrible...
FlameHawk Ru Deadly Vanguards Dangerous Voltage 0	Posted - 2015.06.29 12:00:58 - [212] - Quote Need to add a construction of fleets to the cluster of ships are not turned into piles of garbage. Perhaps this will limit mobility, but it is possible to compensate for this bonus to the range.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16307	Posted - 2015.06.29 16:43:54 - [213] - Quote Dictateur Imperator wrote: baltec1 wrote: Dictateur Imperator wrote: So you agree: Nerf of mining income, you waste time to do this. More boring to mine and less rentable after change. Oh no, CCP added a few more seconds on to my mining activities... CCP reduce income of mining , so how you call it ? it's a nerf of income. It's few sec each rotation at end you loose minutes. CCP have think this change for pvp and forget a lot of player use it... not for pvp but for some industrial thing. Maybe CCP must remimber they call the game a "sandbox" so when they make 1 "pvp" change it's impact all game play, not only pew pew. Allow fleet warp to BM in anomaly , or allow fleet warp for people in same ip/official owner, problem solve. Yep you are totally going to notice that missing minute of mining. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 896	Posted - 2015.06.30 12:14:18 - [214] - Quote Delt0r Garsk wrote: But for the love of god, leave orbit, keep at range etc. Since flying your ship is not just position it is all other things you have to manage and this is not god dam star citizen, so don't go there. EVE was not made for not having such commands. If removal of those comes through it's an indication that someone at the helm needs some very serious reality check. There's a lot of things to manage about your ship, especially if you consider how unresponsive EVE can be at times. Even something as simple as juggling scripts in your TCs and laser crystals at the same time can take your whole attention, especially when imperfections of client-server synching makes it impossible to tell when exactly particular module will come out of cycle. And that's the simplest of tasks, I mean, it's basic gunnery without even looking at the rest 80% of ship operation. I was about to ask for an ability to queue automatic script reloads on TC cycle shift (and same for similar modules), but seeing as how this clickfest if considered gameplay these days, I'd rather not bother.
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 804	Posted - 2015.06.30 22:03:27 - [215] - Quote Would have been nice to be able to warp squad to probed signatures that are not ships. Exploration sites. Oh well. Are EVE's space-oceans getting some atmospheric perspective?
Greygal Redemption Road Affirmative. 464	Posted - 2015.06.30 23:00:10 - [216] - Quote The dev blog states that we will be able to broadcast "warp to (bookmark)" and "warp to (fleet member)" Will we be able to broadcast "align to (bookmark)" and "align to (fleet member)" also? Also, is there any chance of considering keeping the ability to SQUAD warp? This would reduce the negative impact of this change on small gang PVP (for whom the ability to gang warp around a fight is the primary tactic used in order to be able to take on gangs that outnumber and outgun them), it would help retain the ability of logi and ewar squad commanders to do their jobs, and reduce the negative impact of this change as it relates to catherding newbros. It would, in fact, make squad commanders much more relevant to a fleet's success, instead of making them useless for nothing but passing fleet bonuses.... Ya, I know, that would defeat the purpose of this nerf as it relates to bombers (to what extent it does nerf bombers). Figured it doesn't hurt to ask, of course. What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal. Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams! Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2306	Posted - 2015.07.01 02:33:45 - [217] - Quote Squad warp hits two of the three objectives. I don't understand why keeping squad warp and separately addressing bombers is not acceptable. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1224	Posted - 2015.07.02 17:52:59 - [218] - Quote Zappity wrote: Squad warp hits two of the three objectives. I don't understand why keeping squad warp and separately addressing bombers is not acceptable. Because CCP Larrikin thought it would be better to remove all forms of fleet, wing, and squad warp. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
MadDan ermygod The Illuminati Tree House Club Illuminati Confirmed. 3	Posted - 2015.07.02 23:52:23 - [219] - Quote firstly.... apologies if this has been covered... i made it to page 9 and kinda got sick of reading and i didn't see anything remotely related how does one now squad GTFO a small bunch of mining toons to a pos when a roam comes through and please dont tell me "warp to a station" or "warp to a gate" cause we all know what that outcome will be can we at least make it so you can warp to items that people can "see" on grid... ie, pos's asteroid rocks and the like. I get that effectively you'll still need to bookmark those items so you can warp back and forth to them... but surely there's some smarts there that can tell when you've bookmarked a publicly viewable object over an invisible bookmark that only the play with said bookmark can see it wont affect your pvp fleet issues/solutions.. (whatever you want to call them)... and will kinda help retain some form of safety for the guys that run multi toon mining gangs and use squad warp A LOT!
Sbrodor Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation 152	Posted - 2015.07.03 08:39:20 - [220] - Quote we can consider "thinkable" that CCP release a single patch without nerfing bomber? almost every single FC bomber i know is ragequitted? """more monkey at front.. more f1 0.0 braindead monkey on frontline! ;D""

Delt0r Garsk Shits N Giggles 404	Posted - 2015.07.03 11:31:47 - [221] - Quote Barrogh Habalu wrote: Delt0r Garsk wrote: But for the love of god, leave orbit, keep at range etc. Since flying your ship is not just position it is all other things you have to manage and this is not god dam star citizen, so don't go there. EVE was not made for not having such commands. If removal of those comes through it's an indication that someone at the helm needs some very serious reality check. There's a lot of things to manage about your ship, especially if you consider how unresponsive EVE can be at times. Even something as simple as juggling scripts in your TCs and laser crystals at the same time can take your whole attention, especially when imperfections of client-server synching makes it impossible to tell when exactly particular module will come out of cycle. And that's the simplest of tasks, I mean, it's basic gunnery without even looking at the rest 80% of ship operation. I was about to ask for an ability to queue automatic script reloads on TC cycle shift (and same for similar modules), but seeing as how this clickfest if considered gameplay these days, I'd rather not bother. Pray tell how you orbit with a cepter after diving in at 4km/s then? While managing heat etc. Considering you travel 4km between server ticks! It a 1 second server tick. The idea that eve is a twitch game is laughable. Death and Glory! Well fun is also good.
Sumeragy Revolution of Chaos Nemesis Enterprises. 11	Posted - 2015.07.04 04:20:23 - [222] - Quote Still -1 Fleet Warp is still needed as it is. I need it when i Mine whit my friends in belts. Some do go afk here and then now i wont be able to save them to warp them to the pos. Even on Station warp they can-¦t dock and will be killed by neuts. Oh if someoen thinks that "if u are in low or null and afk you deserve to die" so it never happens to you that the someone called or something happend that u forgot to warp to safty. I cant even count how often it happend to my where i did a dock order to a station and i didnt dock up for what ever reason. Or why the hell should i mine whit more alts if i risk everytime to loose ships because i can-¦t warp them all at once. And yes i do mine whitout orca or Rorqual sometimes, now i have to park one of my chars into the pos to fleet warp ? Why make the game easyer when it can be harder !! Again a change to PVP that affects PVE more. Well CCP only cares for numbers thats why more players ships are destroyed them NPC-¦s right ? "Encourage individual fleet member participation" This sentence is so wrong in many ways. Can u tell me now how i can convince ppl to fly a Fleet Ceptor to make warpins on enemys where he will be killed for shure or even to tell him stay on this Bookmark im gona need u in... well i might need u but then i might not. But for safty stay there ! Yeah fun jobs in Fleets ..... But hey i will have the change to learn new ppl because no one gona do the job for long so there will be new guys trying it out oh and prey that it isn-¦t a spy from the enemy Fleet that does the warping :( "Reduce the ease of performing a bomb run without reducing their potential damage" sounds like a exuse to me for: "Bombs are getting to often used like the Ishtar lets nerv it somehow !" Btw: one player will scan them down and the others will warp to him or get a fleet warp. If the CCP team thinks that everyone will start now scanning the position down then you are wrong and srsly wrong XD
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6719	Posted - 2015.07.04 05:30:07 - [223] - Quote Sumeragy wrote: Why make the game easyer when it can be harder !! ^___^ That's a positive way to look at this. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Cpt Buckshot Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 21	Posted - 2015.07.04 10:59:38 - [224] - Quote Dear Fuctards at CCP. So you have made huge changes to EVE, have you seen an increase in subscriptions yet? I mean with all these changes that are really NEEDED you would think Eve population would be 10 fold by now. My guess its not and has dropped. To who ever took over CCP with these ** ideas, I say you. No Really you pieces of ** good rid dens. You have pretty much wrecked a game that did not need fixing except for sov issues in less than a year. Not that you care but I am canceling my accounts today. This was such amazing game until these changes, I cant imagine thinking these were great ideas for a game that needed no changes. I have been playing since 2003 not that I have any good ideas or know how this game works but I do have common sense. I hope half of you lose your jobs because of lack player income and base. The Ship is sinking prob best to look for new places work :) hahaha Fix these things and people will come back and me .. maybe 1. Old brackets 2. No Jump fatigue 3. Fleet warps 4. Fighter assist 5. Nerfed carrier cargo 6. Replace all skill points in areas that you broke PS ..l.. Fuk CCP SOB's
Vladd Talltos Air The Initiative. 4	Posted - 2015.07.04 11:21:53 - [225] - Quote While I understand what you are attempting to do for combat related situations involving fleets and individual pilot involvement, you did not take into account all of the non-combat related activities of pilots in fleets, i.e. industrial activities, fleet mining. When a player is running multiple accounts (and not cheating by using 3rd party software), you have complicated and rendered useless their ability to use multiple accounts. Why is it that CCP never thinks these changes through from all sides and not just the combat/PvP angle? CCP has a responsibility to ensure their changes work for all aspects of the game but seem only to focus on combat.
Cpt Buckshot Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 21	Posted - 2015.07.04 17:58:48 - [226] - Quote Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: Sakura Nihil wrote: Any dev comment as to the wisdom of releasing an expansion right in the middle of the Alliance Tournament? CCP has often made balance changes in the middle of the AT. Also, there hasn't been an "expansion" in like a year, since the fast release cycle was introduced... Also, remove fleet warp entirely. Betting hes only played eve for a year or two ......
Dermeisen 23	Posted - 2015.07.04 18:29:11 - [227] - Quote Zappity wrote: Squad warp hits two of the three objectives. I don't understand why keeping squad warp and separately addressing bombers is not acceptable. Zappity is exactly right - the squad warp would if anything increase tactical play, positioning and interaction. While bombers are a target for a nerf, address them separately, get creative, otherwise this smacks of discarding the essential while retaining the superfluous because of excessive zeal. Small gang need the squad warp and it's belligerent to overlook arguably the most fanatically active, discerning and loyal of Eve players ... das Kind mit dem Bade aussch++tten! "Not the Boreworms!"
Buzz Boolean Bung Cheese Bandits 1	Posted - 2015.07.05 14:11:27 - [228] - Quote Very stupid idea. Leave Fleet Warp alone.
MR DEMOS The Unforgiving. The Initiative. 19	Posted - 2015.07.05 14:35:56 - [229] - Quote I think this is a very bad idea. I understand the reasoning behind it but for those of us who have multiply accounts and depend on the use of these key fleet mechanics. This works against us. (without 3rd party software) doing it legally.... Punishing us again ...... BAD CCP ( Slaps Dev team with a Old Stink FISH)
Esmanpir Raccoon's with LightSabers 40	Posted - 2015.07.06 02:10:36 - [230] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: In war you manoeuvre into battle as a formation, not as individuals. Once the fight has begun, tactical manoeuvring becomes important, but not at the expense of the formation's mission. I haven't got a clue what CCP are trying to achieve with these changes, but I'm looking forward to defensive fleets picking off the hostiles as they land, because the opposing force is no longer capable of manoeuvring as a formation. I think this is one of the real motivations behind the changes. It will make a lot more PVP because the newer, less experienced players will get caught and killed by defense fleets and opportunists.

kraken11 jensen The Gallant Collective Requiem Eternal 93	Posted - 2015.07.07 19:33:49 - [231] - Quote Esmanpir wrote: Leeluvv wrote: In war you manoeuvre into battle as a formation, not as individuals. Once the fight has begun, tactical manoeuvring becomes important, but not at the expense of the formation's mission. I haven't got a clue what CCP are trying to achieve with these changes, but I'm looking forward to defensive fleets picking off the hostiles as they land, because the opposing force is no longer capable of manoeuvring as a formation. I think this is one of the real motivations behind the changes. It will make a lot more PVP because the newer, less experienced players will get caught and killed by defense fleets and opportunists. It would make eve an bigger headdict. lol
Iain Cariaba 1624	Posted - 2015.07.10 16:57:08 - [232] - Quote Cpt Buckshot wrote: stuff Since you won't need it anymore, can I have your stuff? EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Will troll for a t-shirt.
Cpt Buckshot Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 24	Posted - 2015.07.11 09:36:11 - [233] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Cpt Buckshot wrote: stuff Since you won't need it anymore, can I have your stuff? Nope not a chance ..... you prob cant fly a MOM or Rorqual or Dread or Carrier so how would you move or use them
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2357	Posted - 2015.07.11 09:57:40 - [234] - Quote Cpt Buckshot wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Cpt Buckshot wrote: stuff Since you won't need it anymore, can I have your stuff? Nope not a chance ..... you prob cant fly a MOM or Rorqual or Dread or Carrier so how would you move or use them Well I can fly all of them. I would be glad to assist in the arrangement. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Darkblad Hilf Dir selbst in EVE 1758	Posted - 2015.07.14 22:01:30 - [235] - Quote So this got pushed back even further to the (29th of) September Update. EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions (EN & DE)
Rat Scout Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2015.07.15 05:10:54 - [236] - Quote Soo much ...... stuff in this thread Can I has it?
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1305	Posted - 2015.07.15 06:38:17 - [237] - Quote Darkblad wrote: So this got pushed back even further to the (29th of) September Update. Maybe this means CCP will implement some of the good feedback they received on this topic? Not holding my breath, but a man can dream, right? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
kraken11 jensen The Gallant Collective Requiem Eternal 93	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:58:23 - [238] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Darkblad wrote: So this got pushed back even further to the (29th of) September Update. Maybe this means CCP will implement some of the good feedback they received on this topic? Not holding my breath, but a man can dream, right? well, it allways have to be one first time (not likely here) but, meh. :P
Dun'Gal Myriad Contractors Inc. 260	Posted - 2015.07.21 01:22:18 - [239] - Quote kraken11 jensen wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Darkblad wrote: So this got pushed back even further to the (29th of) September Update. Maybe this means CCP will implement some of the good feedback they received on this topic? Not holding my breath, but a man can dream, right? well, it allways have to be one first time (not likely here) but, meh. :P Not holding my breath, but glad to hear it's been pushed back more - at the very least I hope theres some kind of technical limitation or bug that screws the mechanic up. With any luck this plan will be permanently shelved, and things will stay as is.
Larkelf POS Party Low-Class 0	Posted - 2015.07.21 22:13:50 - [240] - Quote why are mission being removed. the pilot still had to turn his weapons on and to interact in the mission. I think this hole thing is stupid and you are trying to kill the game. why not have make Stealth bomber flagged exempt from warp perma? STOP TRYING TO KILL EVE !!!!

Aeon Veritas Lobach Inc. Easily Offended 16	Posted - 2015.07.22 12:32:04 - [241] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved for future Q&A =) I think this post needs to be updated Q: Darkblad wrote: So this got pushed back even further to the (29th of) September Update. Why? Did you listen to some of the community feedback? Especially for threads like this the forum needs "next DEV post" / "previous DEV post" buttons. The "first DEV post" is just plain useless here... General module tiericide thoughts
Grzegorz Wu Thou shalt not kill A Nest of Vipers 1	Posted - 2015.07.22 15:26:51 - [242] - Quote Montgomery Black wrote: If you could broadcast a probe result as a warp to that will help the WH community alot. Currently we we use fleet warps to - Catch site runners at signatures. Eg combat probe, then fleet/squad warp a sabre on top of the result. Without fleetwarp or a warpto broadcast the site runners will escape 90% of the time if they are actively dscaning. Because by the time u land ur cov-ops on grid at the site and then get a sabre to warp to it, the site runners have seen the probes or the new wh sig you came from and are gone. We just need the ability to get a sabre or other ship with some reasonable tackle ability on grid quickly. This is not about getting the blob there its just about getting the intial tackle.
kraken11 jensen The Gallant Collective Requiem Eternal 93	Posted - 2015.07.25 11:19:03 - [243] - Quote (copyed from another part off forum: We tried to fix bombers by nerfing bombers and everyone went nuts, so we stopped that and instead tried to nerf them by nerfing multiboxers. That didn't work either so now were going to fix them by nerfing fleet warp. )
marly cortez Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance 87	Posted - 2015.07.27 03:28:25 - [244] - Quote Here's a thought or three. Remove local. Ban Intel channels. Remove fleet tools. Install One hundred Wormholes in each system, For content provision obviously. Remove Warp from ships, Nerf tanks to zero, oh and remove Armor and Shield reps. And just for the hell of it, lets all not be able to use Comms at all. That should make EVE really interesting again for players. Seriously though CCP why all the negative attitude towards players these days. Own nothing, Build nothing, Plan nothing, Just blow it all up, you know it makes perfect sense, Fozzie says so.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 610	Posted - 2015.07.27 07:26:56 - [245] - Quote marly cortez wrote: Seriously though CCP why all the negative attitude towards players these days. Fairly simple problem inherent to game design, really: CCP has X brains working on making the game. Players have Y brains working on trying to find and exploit (in the non-bannable sense) the most efficient, cost-effective ways of doing pretty much everything they need to do. Y > X Y > X1000 This means the devs are inherently at a massive disadvantage - no matter how many brains they devote to making things less automated and more participatory (or what they think will be so), we're putting at least* a few dozen to a few hundred times that many brains on finding the best ways we make it possible for people to be effective with minimal effort. Because we want as many people to be effective as possible, so we have a better chance of winning any given battle. And we want those people to have as easy a time being effective, because people are lazy, and if they have to do more than the absolute minimum, 90% of people - including 90% of the people in this game - won't. Now add in the sandbox element where they're literally trying to give us a universe where we can do pretty much 'whatever', as opposed to a much more linear, channeled progression and limited industry/economy model like normal MMOs, and you've made their job that much harder. Soooo... yeah. Basically, we're massive pains in their butts.
Delt0r Garsk Shits N Giggles 418	Posted - 2015.07.27 08:00:59 - [246] - Quote Arrendis wrote: marly cortez wrote: Seriously though CCP why all the negative attitude towards players these days. Fairly simple problem inherent to game design, really: CCP has X brains working on making the game. Players have Y brains working on trying to find and exploit (in the non-bannable sense) the most efficient, cost-effective ways of doing pretty much everything they need to do. Y > X Y > X1000 This means the devs are inherently at a massive disadvantage - no matter how many brains they devote to making things less automated and more participatory (or what they think will be so), we're putting at least* a few dozen to a few hundred times that many brains on finding the best ways we make it possible for people to be effective with minimal effort. Because we want as many people to be effective as possible, so we have a better chance of winning any given battle. And we want those people to have as easy a time being effective, because people are lazy, and if they have to do more than the absolute minimum, 90% of people - including 90% of the people in this game - won't. Now add in the sandbox element where they're literally trying to give us a universe where we can do pretty much 'whatever', as opposed to a much more linear, channeled progression and limited industry/economy model like normal MMOs, and you've made their job that much harder. Soooo... yeah. Basically, we're massive pains in their butts. Could not have said it better myself. Even the best and the brightest are no match for sheer numbers of brains. At least in this context. Death and Glory! Well fun is also good.
marly cortez Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance 87	Posted - 2015.07.27 11:55:13 - [247] - Quote Delt0r Garsk wrote: Arrendis wrote: [quote=marly cortez]Seriously though CCP why all the negative attitude towards players these days. Fairly simple problem inherent to game design, really: CCP has X brains working on making the game. Players have Y brains working on trying to find and exploit (in the non-bannable sense) the most efficient, cost-effective ways of doing pretty much everything they need to do. Y > X Y > X*1000 - including 90% of the people in this game - won't. Now add in the sandbox element where they're literally trying to give us a universe where we can do pretty much 'whatever', as opposed to a much more linear, channeled progression and limited industry/economy model like normal MMOs, and you've made their job that much harder. Soooo... yeah. Basically, we're massive pains in their butts. Agreed overall with your concise analysis of EVE as a problem child, what I as a CeO am more concerned about here is that 90% factor with currently players not only exhibiting resistance to engagement with so called 'FozzieSov' other than exploratory short lived interest, They quickly realize the futile nature of the change and take to simply not logging in at all, 'Dog chasing tail syndrome' Gets very old very quickly in the view of many so not worth pursuit. This latest round of proposed changes is even more concerning in that it eats into the foundation of basic fleet activities that players have relied on in years past using the incorrect metric that players need this change so they can exhibit the skills required to engage in fleets on any level, Something any FC crew worth it's salt will quickly realize is simply not going to happen resulting in Less rather than more fleet participation, A position that Alliances and Corporations have been taking great pains over the past months trying to avoid with little lasting success. As for the 'Sandbox' ideal, This one has always baffled me but no matter, the question here is who's sandbox is it now, Not the players that for certain, they never really had control of that aspect and even less so these days since the change to more frequent game updates were what so many of us feared the most has actually come to fruition with CCP pressured by schedules are introducing changes to the game not for any other other reasoning than to tick boxes on a time line, a situation that has brought us to were we are today far quicker and with less thought to the overall impact on the game than the original yearly iterations once offered. Constant tinkering with minor aspects of the game has detracted from game content satisfaction for many, The need to revisit so many items so often leads to the thought that maybe CCP needs to take a step back and place more emphasis on getting it right first time so allowing time for changes to be properly assessed over longer periods because EVE is not all about the numbers, beyond that, Take away the buckets and spades from any sandbox and what your left with is a pile of dirt and little else. Own nothing, Build nothing, Plan nothing, Just blow it all up, you know it makes perfect sense, Fozzie says so.
davet517 Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion 111	Posted - 2015.07.28 10:51:44 - [248] - Quote Just tweak mobile scan inhibitors to make them a little fleet friendlier, and less farmer friendly. Shorter activation time, shorter lifespan. Maybe adjust the range a little bit. Providing the ability to counter something with skillful play is always going to be more fun than just taking that thing away. To counter the counter, and an enemy sniper fleet, an FC will have to bring some snipers of his own, to kill the enemy inhibitors. Makes sniper fleets more viable again, and makes mono-min-max fleets less so, and it does it without all of the unintended consequences that removing fleet warp introduces.
Cuddly Cutie Dumb Ways to Die 0	Posted - 2015.08.06 13:48:41 - [249] - Quote I'm a Miner, an there are Point im not happy with, "You can not Fleetwarp to Bookmarks" so my Lovely Miner fleet rest in peace, in future it is not possible to warp to savespots, or to a POS, you can just set a warp-to, and make each account a 10 klick follow to warp challange, what is meaning R.I.P Acc2 - Acc3 - Acc4 ... . I hope CCP is sometimes thinking about EvE-Online and not only about PvP. Please keap in mind, EvE is more than destroying things, and looking for good fights.
Sgt Ocker Military Bustards FUBAR. 682	Posted - 2015.08.06 23:48:25 - [250] - Quote Cuddly Cutie wrote: I'm a Miner, an there are Point im not happy with, "You can not Fleetwarp to Bookmarks" so my Lovely Miner fleet rest in peace, in future it is not possible to warp to savespots, or to a POS, you can just set a warp-to, and make each account a 10 klick follow to warp challange, what is meaning R.I.P Acc2 - Acc3 - Acc4 ... . I hope CCP is sometimes thinking about EvE-Online and not only about PvP. Please keap in mind, EvE is more than destroying things, and looking for good fights. Had you not realized, the whole idea behind fleet warp changes is to make solo mining and PVE gangs easier to catch? Either that or CCP didn't really think about the consequences of this change when combined with, The Power of Two "never fly alone" promotions. These promotions should now be removed from Account Management. It will soon be false advertising with yet another nerf to multiboxing. The coming change does nothing more than make sniper fleets even harder to deal with, unless all you fly is sniper fleets. CCP again missed the boat by going too far with change, where minor tweaks would have worked far better, they went for a full nerf. NB; I believe the goal is to see how few single account subscribers CCP can survive with. That can't be good for a game that has for its entire life promoted and encouraged multiboxing. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care ISD Dorrim Barstorlode - Vice Admiral, Forum Dictator

Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 712	Posted - 2015.08.07 16:26:22 - [251] - Quote Bad idea is a Bad Idea. The change needlessly hurts multi-boxers for no good reason. If combat probing has made sniper fleets less viable that is only because CCP made probing too easy. Once upon a time, probing used to be a challenge that required real player skill to do effectively. A good combat prober was a welcome addition to any fleet. Then CCP brain seized and decided to remove player skill from probing making probing a new player entry profession; ofc the natural consequence of this is that every nub can now combat probe, which in turn means that sniper fleets are less viable. Why not roll back some of the changes that were made to probing to increase its difficulty again? This would have the added benefit of making exploration more worthwhile since increased difficulty would help raise the prices for items dropped in exploration sites. And this can all happen without hurting some of the most dedicated ccp players, i.e. multiboxers, needlessly. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Esmanpir Raccoon's with LightSabers 40	Posted - 2015.08.07 19:17:56 - [252] - Quote I think this change will mostly benefit the hardcore PVPrs and opportunists in low and null by providing them with more targets from the less experienced fleets and FCs. It will make it somewhat more difficult for new players / fleets / FCs, and rewards those fleets and players who have elevated PVP to a craft. Although I understand the goal of CCP in making these changes, I'm not convinced they're considering the full impact of these changes. As with all things CCP does, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Another +1 for CCP kowtowing to a specific group of vocal players and ignoring the effect it has on the entire spectrum of play.
Esmanpir Raccoon's with LightSabers 40	Posted - 2015.08.07 19:29:05 - [253] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Cuddly Cutie wrote: I'm a Miner, an there are Point im not happy with, "You can not Fleetwarp to Bookmarks" so my Lovely Miner fleet rest in peace, in future it is not possible to warp to savespots, or to a POS, you can just set a warp-to, and make each account a 10 klick follow to warp challange, what is meaning R.I.P Acc2 - Acc3 - Acc4 ... . I hope CCP is sometimes thinking about EvE-Online and not only about PvP. Please keap in mind, EvE is more than destroying things, and looking for good fights. Had you not realized, the whole idea behind fleet warp changes is to make solo mining and PVE gangs easier to catch? Either that or CCP didn't really think about the consequences of this change when combined with, The Power of Two "never fly alone" promotions. These promotions should now be removed from Account Management. It will soon be false advertising with yet another nerf to multiboxing. The coming change does nothing more than make sniper fleets even harder to deal with, unless all you fly is sniper fleets. CCP again missed the boat by going too far with change, where minor tweaks would have worked far better, they went for a full nerf. NB; I believe the goal is to see how few single account subscribers CCP can survive with. That can't be good for a game that has for its entire life promoted and encouraged multiboxing. CCP won't consider anything other than PVP for two reasons: 1) Any of them that actually play the game, mostly only PVP. 2) The majority of outspoken critics for change are PVPrs. Look through the threads... Pirates, gankers, PVPrs... Anyone who posts an idea or thread about improving the mining, multiboxing, or single player high-sec experience gets lambasted by a small, vocal group of PVPrs and gankers. Heaven forbid CCP actually asked for input on how to improve the player experience for the part-time and / or predominantly non-PVP player. That idea is usually met with, "Eve is a PVP game." I think that's mostly true, but doesn't need to be. Certainly is becoming more so.
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 891	Posted - 2015.08.10 06:49:19 - [254] - Quote Aeon Veritas wrote: Especially for threads like this the forum needs "next DEV post" / "previous DEV post" buttons. The "first DEV post" is just plain useless here... If you click on the DEV tag on one of their posts, it takes you to the next dev post in that thread (unless that is the last one).
Azarath NazGhoul The Scope Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2015.08.14 16:46:08 - [255] - Quote I still really wish CCP would actually tell us what they think this magical GÇ£player involvementGÇ¥ is. It actually seems like they have designers design for a different game. Please explain how a player will get more involved in this change, do you seriously believe that the FC will start saying GÇ£all lets meet 400 of the gate, thatGÇÖs where the enemy are, see you there!GÇ¥ The only change once again will be slowing down fights, i.e. create more waiting for the fleet member and more stress for the FC. Stop GÇ£sellingGÇ¥ changes with fancy words like GÇ£player involvementGÇ¥ and explain how you think it will work and we can tell you the truth.
Resa Moon New Eden Miners Association 10	Posted - 2015.08.16 11:09:38 - [256] - Quote Want to add my voice to those who've spoken against this change to fleet warp. Very detrimental to multi-box mining for the reasons others have outlined. Very detrimental to small gang warfare. We spend quality time and effort preparing tactical and safe-spot bookmarks for the systems we live in or frequent and use those bookmarks when we fight hostiles. What engages our gang members isn't the act of warping, it's the fight that takes place when we get there. Taking away fleet warping to bookmarks by those in command positions really takes away some of the tactical benefit we have of knowing and preparing our terrain. New Eden Mining Blog
Maekchu EVE University Ivy League 102	Posted - 2015.08.16 15:35:50 - [257] - Quote Wow... The amount of butthurt from multiboxing miners in this thread O.o So you finally face a small chance of losing some of your ships and can't mine in complete safety? With CCP delaying the implementation, I really hope they are not caving to the amount of whine in this thread. Explosions need to happen for the economy to go around. If you can mine in complete safety and warp whenever something appears in local, then that is a flawed mechanic.
Wun NgoWen Unforeseen Consequences. Triumvirate. 24	Posted - 2015.08.18 11:31:22 - [258] - Quote In my alliance, we routinely warp to someone thats Xes up at a distance or not, fleet warps are rare so no biggie as far as we're concerned. But I'm curious what else is there in next week's release?
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 972	Posted - 2015.08.25 14:54:46 - [259] - Quote Going to have to wait for a covert ops to scan down and warp to a fleet... That much harder to get a fight. Not today spaghetti.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 972	Posted - 2015.08.25 15:00:39 - [260] - Quote Also I'm pretty sure long range T3 battlecruisers were used last night to smash a Machariel fleet so there's that. All in all this change is dumb. Not today spaghetti.

kraken11 jensen The Gallant Collective Requiem Eternal 95	Posted - 2015.08.26 04:02:22 - [261] - Quote Maekchu wrote: Wow... The amount of butthurt from multiboxing miners in this thread O.o So you finally face a small chance of losing some of your ships and can't mine in complete safety? With CCP delaying the implementation, I really hope they are not caving to the amount of whine in this thread. Explosions need to happen for the economy to go around. If you can mine in complete safety and warp whenever something appears in local, then that is a flawed mechanic. Multiboxing or not, i think it would be retardely annoying removing it in the way it's today.
Nanar DeNanardon Babylon Knights DARKNESS. 6	Posted - 2015.08.27 07:56:05 - [262] - Quote Maekchu wrote: Wow... The amount of butthurt from multiboxing miners in this thread O.o So you finally face a small chance of losing some of your ships and can't mine in complete safety? With CCP delaying the implementation, I really hope they are not caving to the amount of whine in this thread. Explosions need to happen for the economy to go around. If you can mine in complete safety and warp whenever something appears in local, then that is a flawed mechanic. Mining is boring and you win far less money than rating in NULL SEC. This change will make mining just a bit more dangerous and very less profitable: - no fleet warp to BM means more time to reach the asteroids (especially at the end of the belt) - it will still be possible to instant warp the full fleet to the rorqual in POS when hostile appear in local Finally I'm pretty sure this change will make less target for you the hunters, but the few rabbit in belt will still be safe... More mouse click, less money, I'll rather stop some accounts and back to high sec.
marly cortez Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance 94	Posted - 2015.09.17 03:03:47 - [263] - Quote I agree, Mining is an utterly boring occupation in EVE, Hours of grinding roids for little return, target for anyone with the stones to go hunting them and butt of eons of jokes from all.....That is all except those that engage in it as a profession in EVE. The assumption I see being expressed here in this and many others threads is that Miners are in some way wrong for what they do, that simply by not engaging in PvP they should not be allowed to play EVE, result no matter what they do to improve there lot everyone and his dog rides over the hill waving flames regarding them, yet in doing so they provide little or no back up for there accusations and inferences, simply troll for trolling sake mostly. CCP on the other hand have little regard for this niche in EVE, ...Butt hurt, interesting term but in reality far from the facts, Truth is that CCP approached the problem of ISBOXER in my view from the wrong angle, instead of banning it they should have encompassed it as an add-on to EVE, licensed the software and if that proved impossible, write there own version, in this manner they could have complete control over how it was used, were and when and on what ships, for this CCP could rightly charge a fee. Oddly they could also done this with things like EVEMON and similar utilities whats surprising is why they have not done it. Whatever happens regarding multi boxing over all, banning ISBOXER outright like they did has had ramification to EVE far beyond that expected I suspect and has not benefited EVE in anyway. Own nothing, Build nothing, Plan nothing, Just blow it all up, you know it makes perfect sense, Fozzie says so.
Darkblad Hilf Dir selbst in EVE 2301	Posted - 2015.09.24 05:31:17 - [264] - Quote Aeon Veritas wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Reserved for future Q&A =) I think this post needs to be updated Most definately, considering that this change no longer appears on http://updates.eveonline.com/coming/ I checked up to http://updates.eveonline.com/coming/fall/ EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions (EN & DE)


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