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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:19:00 - [1081] Originally by: Rodney Caston Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus And if t20 had not had access to the t2 missile bpos you think they would not have had access to t2 missles or even afford them? Like I said its a non-event.. So it's ok to steal if you are rich enough to pay for it anyways? Were you on the Winona Ryder jury? Dont forget that the true victim is the person that didnt get the BPO through the lottery. Those 12bil isk may not be much to BoB but to a small player its more than enough to feel like a very very rich player.
Tarri Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:19:00 - [1082] Originally by: Primus Centarus Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus OMG! He had some gate camping T2 sniper ammo too!!!!!!!!! Your right.. He gave an unfair advantage to his alliance.. DPJ, "Sabre Blueprints" are used to make these. Does that LOOK like missiles/ammo to you? Lol, don¦t bother about him... ----
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:20:00 - [1083] Ahh well thats a bit different I guess but still Dictors are in every region to buy for all.. Its a case of the UN calling out some third world country for buying some AK-47's on the black market when they are already spread across the whole world.. It just done for the flashy headlines.. Revelations.. The **znit.. ( FFS ****znit is blocked?! Quit using Babelfish for a blocked word filter engine CCP.. :-p )
Gyny	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:21:00 - [1084] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus OMG! He had some gate camping T2 sniper ammo too!!!!!!!!! Your right.. He gave an unfair advantage to his alliance.. You're tap dancing down jack-ass ally; The T2 Sabre BPO is a SHIP, not Ammo ... you know, the big metal things that fly thru space? They normally have lights on them, and some look like a giant tylenol.
Caliwyrm O'Libr	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:21:00 - [1085] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Am I saying its right what he did? of course not.. But step back a few feet and look at what was done.. Missiles.. Thats all.. Now I'm sure your all thinking what else was done by t20 but i'm fairly certain it was just the missiles.. I mean really how much of an advantage does some T2 missiles give anyone? No doubt t20 thought the same thing.. What harm could come from spawning some T2 missile bpos.. You still have to have a clue about warfare to use them to gain territory and last itme I checked T2 missiles were availible in every region in an excess of stock.. This whole ordeal is just a 'flame CCP for cheating' and rightly so I guess but after you take all the consequenses into your head you should realize its a NON-EVENT.. Do you honestly believe that the BPOs were ALL that happened? (BTW, if the BPOs are so crappy when will my set be delivered?) "Hey, guys, you may want to try to get ahold of any Expanded Cargohold I BPO you can.. I hear some nifty things will be happening to them soon.." "Hey, we should really take system ABC-123 soon" (a week later patch notes mention a new plex added to system ABC-123) "Hey guys, perhaps we should put a PoS at (insert "random" moon). I, uh, 'scanned' "it" and see that (insert super rare reaction ingredient) spawned there" (with "it" being the game db) How are we to ever really know if there isn't a favorable "typo" in the officer spawn rates in BoB space? What about the more serious allegations of mass account sharing? Why are BoB members still in the game even after EULA violations when others aren't? The list could go on and on. Some are pure tin foil hattery, some are viable, some even likely happened. None have anything to do with the BPOs. Besides, have you ever heard of a "red herring"? Those are the only BPOs we're being told about. It would be like risking your job by taking office supplies if those were the only BPOs.. ======= Talk is cheap because supply always outweighs demand..
Bubonlc	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:22:00 - [1086] this saddens me. hope ccp tells us the full truth, instead of trying to cover this up. sad
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:23:00 - [1087] Originally by: The Libertine I think I just found my new sig. By all means use it. Its from an old t20 post (Linkage) where he discusses people finding out dev alts and is a rather interesting read in light of this new information. t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:25:00 - [1088] Originally by: Gyny Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus OMG! He had some gate camping T2 sniper ammo too!!!!!!!!! Your right.. He gave an unfair advantage to his alliance.. You're tap dancing down jack-ass ally; The T2 Sabre BPO is a SHIP, not Ammo ... you know, the big metal things that fly thru space? They normally have lights on them, and some look like a giant tylenol. K.. How about we ban all Logoffskies? Oh Wait.. O.0 would be empty.. Revelations.. The **znit.. ( FFS ****znit is blocked?! Quit using Babelfish for a blocked word filter engine CCP.. :-p )
Mr Antisocial	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:25:00 - [1089] Kieron, I want to say thanks for starting the new thread replying to some of the items brought up by others in the community. First off I want to say I understand what you've replied to and can understand the reasons you have talked about as far as T20 not being terminated. I guess what bothers me the most about this particular incident is: How do I as a customer know that this isn't normally acceptable throughout CCP and the only reason you guys addressed this one is because the facts got out to the community. There seems to be talk on the thread about people shooting through POS shields and the like from others. Is this another way a dev can cheat the system in place? I just want to know I can trust CCP and their devs in the future.
Rennard Aku Soku Zan	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:26:00 - [1090] Is t20 still working in ccp? Because i think i recently saw him on irc as an operator of an official channel. Shouldn't they suspend his powers until investigation is complete? I mean the guy knows he is gonna be kicked, he is got nothing to lose now. I would expect anything from him before he goes... like a parting gift for his friends...

Pravest Dall	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:26:00 - [1091] Once again certain alliances are using this NON-EVENT to further their own little ingame agendas - shame on you AAA, goons. A dev made a mistake with little ingame consequenses - but OMG - the world has ended!!! CCP has dealed with it - move on. As for the other allegations illegally obtained by Kugutsumen. What the hell is CCP supposed to do without proof? Except for the postings by a known criminal (hacking like his is a criminal offense in many countries - he IS a criminal in my eyes) - there is none. Some of it is true - but how easy is it to insert 'extra' stuff in there to further his own agenda? get over it , move on or quit - EVE will go along great without you anyway.
Zylatis AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:26:00 - [1092] i agree, this turn of events is highly depressing. i had such faith and hope in ccp as being different, detached from the rest of the evil corporate and corrupt world, instead it seems they created their own where they have cart blanc whilst you guys have done something, and FINALLY admitted whats going on, you should be worried more about the demands and expectations of the hundreds of thousands of subscribers with very real money and time invested and very real concerns, more than the fate of someone, however close you all may be, who effectively broke the law (of eve). PS: if i end up at the bottom of a river with concrete boots you know why
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:31:00 - [1093] Originally by: Pravest Dall Once again certain alliances are using this NON-EVENT to further their own little ingame agendas QFT.. Revelations.. The **znit.. ( FFS ****znit is blocked?! Quit using Babelfish for a blocked word filter engine CCP.. :-p )
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:33:00 - [1094] People crying this is a non-event, drop those bpo's in my hangar please, I'm sure they won't mean nothing. Looking at BoB's collection of bpo's, looks like those were the only ones they didn't had already (if the list is correct and I think it is). Who can assure me that they got them all fairly. And we all know it only takes one or two to start gathering isk to buy all the others. Not claiming for t20 employment terminated, but having kugu's accounts banned and t20 getting away with a slap on his wrist and sirmolle breaking eula (from what I read this was clear), and all the other bob involved with this just keep playing untouchables, this just screams NOT FAIR. Been playing for almost 3 years, there was always rumours that BoB had dev help, now we know at least one accusation was true, was this a one time event or is just the tip of the iceberg. Last, while I could care less if t20 was the titan pilot in bob or lead the capital fleet I always was disenhearted at CCP's lack of will to fix the tech 2 market, which imo is one of the more important things in eve, is what makes an alliance powerfull, having an infinite source of isk to feed all their ship needs, while every other alliance has to spend 95% of the time carebearing to be able to afford something BoB has for free, so the can pvp 99% of the time. I'm sad atm, but we'll get over it as in rl it pays to have friends in high places, meritocracy is an utopic word. Sad, truly sad.
Caliwyrm O'Libr	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:36:00 - [1095] Originally by: Maya Rkell Caliwyrm O'Libr, the cargo expanders was because they were changed on SiSi. Period. I know this from logging on there and checking something not entirely related, and I only failed to get a cargo expander I BPO on TQ shortly after one by 5 mil:/ Anyway, the saga is over, the result proclaimed. You're throwing tinfoil everwhere. I'm amused by the people who don't think they can crush BoB in-game, because sure as heck eagle eyes are going to catch ANY cheating by the devs in this war. Thing is, I don't think they will either, if only because of Goonfleet's own enemies. Oh, so the dev's themselves didn't know about the changes BEFORE they went on SiSi? At nearly 1200 posts and counting I don't think many people share the "this is a non-event" mantra. For the 'average' player to move beyond this scandal BoB cannot exist. As long as BoB exists than your average frustrated gamer will only be reminded of this and get even more frustrated. I honestly don't think BoB is meant to survive this conflict with Ragoon+friends. The whole "Out of sight, out of mind" thing. It is literally impossible for them to hold off what seems like 70%+ of the EVE 0.0 population. BoB goes out quickly, the majority of the population puts it behind them now that there is no more BoB and CCP gets rid of this HUGE headache. I'm sure CCP will even reward BoB on the WDLside with some free GTCs. ======= Talk is cheap because supply always outweighs demand..
1337tong	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:37:00 - [1096] Originally by: Niaski Zalani Bloody hell. Are you going to be re-instating those 7 accounts you banned? Because frankly, the guy deserves having his accounts back. isnt the penalty for hacking usually a prison sentence? in my eyes regardless of the outcome. he still hacked to get the information so he deserves nothing and got what was coming to him
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:37:00 - [1097] Really if you take all the territory gained by t20's actions you might have enough to seed a chia pet.. Well.. Maybe half of one.. Revelations.. The **znit.. ( FFS ****znit is blocked?! Quit using Babelfish for a blocked word filter engine CCP.. :-p )
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:38:00 - [1098] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 10/02/2007 05:48:55 Reverend Revelator, that one word a criminal hacker says is true does not mean a single other word he says is true, and must not be subjected to identical examination. After all, a single truth in a mountain of lies has often been used to sell the entire thing as truth. So in other words, the proof of his lying is that he told the truth one time? That there was no cynonet account sharing, no insider information given? All obvious lies, completeley ridiculous accusations, which only idiots would believe? You would have done a great job in the Ministry of Truth, only I'm thinking that might have been hard combining with your career in the Ministry of Love. -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:42:00 - [1099] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 10/02/2007 06:39:29 Caliwyrm O'Libr, the buying frenzy was after they'd been seen to change on Sisi. Really, stop tinfoiling. And I never said it was nothing. The average player does not even know this happened, and if they did they'll see two big bullies fighting. You're projecting your own feelings. The forces arrayed against them are hardly "overwhelming". Your lack of understanding about alliance warfare...is, I'm afraid, something I cannot easily rectify. And yes, tinfoil more..but if you're going to be unhappy, there are plenty of other MMO's out there run by other companies. Thanks. Ishmael Hansen, "from what I read this was clear" A hacker's word ain't the gospels. Reverend Revelator, one thing he said was true. You're then uncritically accepting everything else he said. That's wrong. And hey, Germinate's fine these days. You really don't have to try and make jokes about that. //Maya
magmorel Caldari GalacTECH Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:42:00 - [1100] My only contribution is can i have those characters from those people cancelling. Yes it truly is sad to see where my money is going every month. But i also know there isn't any other MMO out there that has this much of a community concerned about its game, WOW doesn't, they are all pre-teen kids who click fast. This thread really isnt a flame or bash its people actually caring about whats going on with there money and time. And if devs can just dismiss its subscribers like nothing, really is a shame. Good luck to all involved. T2 violin FTW adds 20% pity dont care to each level penalty to complain

Deepspace Wanderer	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:42:00 - [1101] you know, for a "non-event", this is all over the internet. just google "eve online dev misconduct" something will have to be done, or this games reputation will go completely down the crapper. Which is too bad, because, even in spite of this scandal, this is the best MMO out there right now.
Terawatt Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:42:00 - [1102] Edited by: Terawatt on 10/02/2007 06:40:14 I have a few questions that have yet to be addressed: 1) Why were the BPs spawned in the summer allowed to reside in the RKK corp hangers until the entire community became aware of their existence and not immediately once t20 was removed from BoB? As for the billions of isk brought in from them, perhaps that cannot be retracted, however all existing BPCs and Sabres built from said BPO could easily be erased. Granted it might not the the best solution, but it is a thought. 2) I do not feel the issue of the leaked Aurora event and the Hel mothership has been sufficiently addressed. We know the information was leaked and certain groups had the resourced for the collection of this item in place prior to when the reward was announced? I fail to understand how there was not an immediate investigation, or retraction of the reward (you could say it was flawed and make it explode randomly). I cannot simply accept that logs do not go back that far as no network administrator worth more than 2 cents would know a backup system would need to be implemented, providing daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly backups, drilling down even further as necessary. There must be an archived copy of the logs from the timeframe in question that can be reviewed. I feel both of these issues need to be addressed as I am sure dozens of sabres built from the illegitimate BPO and the Hel in question are currently involved in operations against my alliance. 3) Finally I would like to know what information was found in regards to the messages between the BoB directorate and the known dev accounts. I am in now way stating that the entire BoB alliance was involved in any misconduct, however I find it difficult to believe that due how things played out noone was aware. I know I would find it strange if one of our directors left the corp, but allowed us to keep 5 tech 2 bpos.
Rigoletto Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:45:00 - [1103] ISk Made, BPO bought witht those isks to make more money... BOB did take an udge advantage bout this... Even if trustly players and others wich paid to play have to pay for that matter, be so... Sad for them... but for the entire community will be fair. On a recent matter with Chaos d'haussen, bout ISK paid on EBAY, not only his cousin got banned for selling isk, but all player with over 1 B donation from him got their isks taken away by CCP... and they didn t wait ... Players logging with neg 2 B on their account ... (at end they put it at 0 isk...) CCP, the policy you doing for Hacker, EBAY sellers, should be done even to an alliance : FACT IS : 1 or more CCP EMPLOYES CHEATED, Roll BAck from that cheat should be apply. And when Do CCP gonna make a VETO for CCP EMployees joining an alliance of player paying to be there to simply avoid this again ... ? ATM Cancelling subscription... I m not gonna pay for a game Cheated... Rigoletto/Chorea. Life is like a chocolate box, you never know what you gonna pick up.
Noreen Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:45:00 - [1104] This is a reply to the original post from CCP, I have not read the first 39 pages as I'm a paying customer and should not be held accountable to go through all other customer complaints that are filed against you, here are mine! 1) One of your employees discriminated against me in the services that you provide by providing preferential treatment to their friends. Your reply of "sorry it wont happen again is insufficient", I do not find enough proof that this company is able to monitor its employees to the standards it claims and is unwilling to take the measure (removal of all ccp employee private characters from game) to ensure you deliver the product that you promise. 2) The allegations made against Developer's bias because of personal interest in the welfare of certain alliances are being side stepped by using the employee "t20" as a scapegoat, this issue is no where near resolved and I as a customer strongly belive that the misconduct has ranged further then just this incident, to include, the following a) Compromised event staff where alliance knew locations and rewards before hand b) Placement of new resources (DeDs) in the EvE universe to favor an alliance c) Allegations of high level officer spawns in favored alliance space d) Developer encouraged use of alliance wide practice of bending game mechanics to favorable outcomes outside the known/documented area to customers (e.g node exchange points, unpublished module paths, hidden module effects (e.g certain carrier hidden cap bonus), or ability to scout ahead in CCP owned accounts for prefered alliances. I understand that some of these allegations may not be provable at this point looking at the past, but CCP has not put into any light what measures it has or is willing to take to over see these effects, in perspective losing the faith that its customers have bestoyed upon CCP. 3) CEO's decision to let Developers continue playing on their personal accounts is a conflict of interest for your customers and is unacceptable, the reason given is non-justifiable as test server can provide all game mechanics for the developers to create their own community. To make things right with your customers I suggest that all CPP staff remove their personal characters from EvE. Failing to do so will further raise speculation about the integrity of CCP corporation and the ripples of which would soon effect your financial health with bad publicity and lowering subscription. For years EvE has thrived as being a tight nit community of players, a niche where developers and players work together for the advancement of the future of MMORPGs. Today we feel CCP have left the players call for justice unheard and gone out of its way to protect its own personal interests, you have to regain the trust of your customers or risk having EvE Online written in the history books along side other MMORPG's who once could have been great. Thank you for your time and consideration, contact me on personal address if required. Long Term CCP customers and stakeholder -Noreen (Main character)
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:47:00 - [1105] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 10/02/2007 06:45:36 Terawatt, 1) Bear in mind that many of those sabres might be in the hands of people unconnected with BoB, since BOB products can end up on the market and are bought in good faith. So it's not even that simple. 2) Aurora events are typically discussed with alliances beforehand, if you didn't know that. Otherwise the event tends to go badly wrong and accusations of bias and disrupting fleet battles are thrown. Also, you missed: 3) Why were goonfleet not banned en-mass for the client-side hack they did. Noreen, I'm sorry you hate Eve so much. Devs not being in touch with their game leads to disasters like the SWF NGE, and in a PvP game things will go wrong MUCH quicker. If you have a magic soloution to the issues - and frankly no alternative for proper gameplay has been found - please present the full soloution. Handwaving "it will be okay" is NOT supported by the evidence, I'm afraid. //Maya
Ash Donai	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:50:00 - [1106] Originally by: kieron To terminate t20's employment now would appease some of the more emotional members of the community, but it would also be unfair to punish someone twice for the same misconduct. Let's just get a couple things straight: #1 Players being ticked off at a developer cheating doesn't have anything to do with being "more emotional". How dare you even talk to customers that way?!? Players put TRUST into the people who run EVE, TRUST that every player is playing on even ground given comparable circumstances. When a CCP employee breaches that TRUST, then it's not just the "more emotional" customers who get upset. People get upset because what has happened is WRONG, yet no reasonable action was taken to address this wrongdoing. OMG, he lost his toon in RKK! Who cares, someone with his standing will obtain a new toon just like it within minutes of the old one being deleted (or renamed?). #2 No, terminating t20 would not be unfair, and he would not be punished twice. Terminating t20 would remedy CCPs faulty original response to this event and bring the response in line with practiced and accepted policy. Terminating t20 is the only reasonable course of action, anything short of that is just CCP attempting to make the appearance of smoothing things over without to take any credible corrective action. Keeping t20 employed send the message that devs and those whom they assist are above the "law".
Rustiko	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:50:00 - [1107] Quote: null Here is a quote from Hellmar's Dev Blog Originally by: The CommitmentUnfortunately CCP did not act with the same decisive consistency we have used on previous occasions. Those left at the helm chose to react cautiously, as sometimes is appropriate under these circumstances, leading to more leniency and understanding than we are used to in these matters. Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer when the majority of the senior company staff was on vacation. This lead to the caution against taking more harsh measures such as termination of employment. T20 was punished at the time for his misconduct. To terminate t20's employment now would appease some of the more emotional members of the community, but it would also be unfair to punish someone twice for the same misconduct. Quote: null So what was the punishment the first time? How can this guy not be fired, this is just silly.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:51:00 - [1108] I'll tell you one thing.. WoW would never have this much Psychological Warfare and Opportunistic Dis-Information mongering going on.. Maybe having some of the best and brightest in your game isn't the optimal playerbase after all.. Revelations.. The **znit.. ( FFS ****znit is blocked?! Quit using Babelfish for a blocked word filter engine CCP.. :-p )
The Libertine	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:53:00 - [1109] Originally by: Maya Rkell 3) Why were goonfleet not banned en-mass for the client-side hack they did. I'm confused ... So if you want to ban goon for EULA violations; then why aren't you also asking for BoB to be banned as well?
Mjnari Empyreum	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:54:00 - [1110] Originally by: Redwolf Thread speed has dropped to under 2 posts per minute Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Thats because people are starting to realize that this whole affair is a non-event.. No, it's because no one summarized the dev post in Russian or Chinese (oh wait, they've their own server now) yet. ------------------------ Minmatar, It should be like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair shooting an Uzi.



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