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Thermodynamic's Reduce to Energy Management 4 please! (First Whine)

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adriaans Amarr Interstellar StarShipWrights Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:53:00 - [361] it's fine as it is... com on only takes 12 days for energy management 5 anyways...the rest you should have had for ages anyways... and even so, these are useful skills that you should get anyhow --sig-- Knowledge is power!
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:56:00 - [362] Originally by: Mica Swanhaven Unlike T2 guns T2 hardeners or anything else t2 heat doesn't have an other way of doing it faction guns are better than t2 but that don't take a lvl 5 skill I would understand if this wasn't advertised as "Come on play eve! there is heat" Also unless there is more of T3 feel to heat which by the way makes no sense :P I for one am not looking forward to introducing people to eve and when they ask "what is those little green things above my modules?" nd all I can say is "well that's heat, but you can't use that until you train your learning skills to lvl 4 and EM to lvl 5 which will take you 25 days" you people shouldn't forget when you start eve a rank 3 skill takes 30 days yo lvl 5 nor should you forget that learning skills actually don't equal into a time sink so please no flame there There seems to be skills that take different lvls of the termo skill... so why not make heat a rank 8 skill that only needs em3 or 4? or a rank 10 skill even That is a good point about how they are advertising Heat and splashing it all over the UI whether you have the skills for it or not. We who have been playing awhile know better but it is pretty deceiving to a noob who wants to try it and can't get his Civilian shield booster to overheat and then finds out it will be months before he will ever be able to use the feature. Those noobs who don't understand how things work and what kind of time commitments this game takes are going to feel left out because it is on their UI but they can't use it.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:59:00 - [363] Originally by: adriaans it's fine as it is... com on only takes 12 days for energy management 5 anyways...the rest you should have had for ages anyways... and even so, these are useful skills that you should get anyhow it takes me 12 days I've got about 10 friends that would love eve if you could walk around all of them are gamers but they just want immersion they love the idea of permi-death but it won't take them 12 days to train it goes down like this Older players won't care 1 year player better not whine about a 12 day skill new players will have to stare at a stupid UI for months this is not a T2 item it's a feature to game play so I can understand where people are coming form it's not salvaging where if you didn't have survey 5 it would still be a new salvage button on every wreck faction stuff doesn't need lvl 5 skills so can we have faction heat? lol well I'm rdy to be ignored
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:01:00 - [364] Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Mica Swanhaven Unlike T2 guns T2 hardeners or anything else t2 heat doesn't have an other way of doing it faction guns are better than t2 but that don't take a lvl 5 skill I would understand if this wasn't advertised as "Come on play eve! there is heat" Also unless there is more of T3 feel to heat which by the way makes no sense :P I for one am not looking forward to introducing people to eve and when they ask "what is those little green things above my modules?" nd all I can say is "well that's heat, but you can't use that until you train your learning skills to lvl 4 and EM to lvl 5 which will take you 25 days" you people shouldn't forget when you start eve a rank 3 skill takes 30 days yo lvl 5 nor should you forget that learning skills actually don't equal into a time sink so please no flame there There seems to be skills that take different lvls of the termo skill... so why not make heat a rank 8 skill that only needs em3 or 4? or a rank 10 skill even That is a good point about how they are advertising Heat and splashing it all over the UI whether you have the skills for it or not. We who have been playing awhile know better but it is pretty deceiving to a noob who wants to try it and can't get his Civilian shield booster to overheat and then finds out it will be months before he will ever be able to use the feature. Those noobs who don't understand how things work and what kind of time commitments this game takes are going to feel left out because it is on their UI but they can't use it. yup :) and like above I agree with the following "older players should not be whining about having to train the skill" those players sound lazy :) it's time to check character creation to see if any race gets EM lvl 4 at creation thus being unfair to everyone else
Drykor Minmatar Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:02:00 - [365] If you're going to play Eve for the heat function, you're quite a tard.
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:04:00 - [366] Originally by: Drykor If you're going to play Eve for the heat function, you're quite a tard. who said anything about playing for heat? it's about new players not even knowing about it and when they log in the tutorail tells them nothing about random buttons on thier UI gasp! has the tutorial even have the right pictures in it?
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:09:00 - [367] Originally by: Drykor If you're going to play Eve for the heat function, you're quite a tard. A guy on a trial account who knows nothing about the game but heard beforehand about some of the features such as Heat is a tard? When i first started this game, i didn't even know their were alliances. I knew about corps. What attracted me to the game was I heard the ships can shoot at each other...lol So I don't think it is too far fetched that someone would join EvE because they thought Heat sounded cool. It is a part of combat after all.
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:11:00 - [368] Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Drykor If you're going to play Eve for the heat function, you're quite a tard. A guy on a trial account who knows nothing about the game but heard beforehand about some of the features such as Heat is a tard? When i first started this game, i didn't even know their were alliances. I knew about corps. What attracted me to the game was I heard the ships can shoot at each other...lol So I don't think it is too far fetched that someone would join EvE because they thought Heat sounded cool. It is a part of combat after all. I stand corrected :)
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:16:00 - [369] Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 20/06/2007 20:15:34 Quote: you people shouldn't forget when you start eve a rank 3 skill takes 30 days yo lvl 5 nor should you forget that learning skills actually don't equal into a time sink And you shouldn't forget that EVE already gives new players like a month of skills free to begin with now.. Hell, I started with like 10k SP :P And about a trial char hearing heat and thinking cool.. hows that different than someone making a trial account cause they heard of carriers with tons of fighters that you can deploy and they want to play one of those? Its no different. Just cause it seems high end to us doesn't mean it is to new players. Quote: So I don't think it is too far fetched that someone would join EvE because they thought Heat sounded cool. It is a part of combat after all. Oh, and another thing, THE SKILL COSTS 4.3 MILLION ISK so new players won't be buying it anyway, it costs as much as a cruiser, and if I recall when I started, it took me a long time to simply afford to fly a cruiser, so who'd buy a skillbook for a skill that isn't incredibly useful for new players that costs that much..?
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:16:00 - [370] Originally by: Mica Swanhaven Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Drykor If you're going to play Eve for the heat function, you're quite a tard. A guy on a trial account who knows nothing about the game but heard beforehand about some of the features such as Heat is a tard? When i first started this game, i didn't even know their were alliances. I knew about corps. What attracted me to the game was I heard the ships can shoot at each other...lol So I don't think it is too far fetched that someone would join EvE because they thought Heat sounded cool. It is a part of combat after all. I stand corrected :) I just mean think about if you were looking for a new MMO and heard about this game where you fly spaceships and do cool things with them like over heat your guns to hit harder or faster. Of course that alone wouldn't get me to play but it doesn't hurt.
qantua gnartians Gallente Phoenix Wing Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:18:00 - [371] Edited by: qantua gnartians on 20/06/2007 20:17:02 Originally by: Avon No, it effects everyone equally. No-one had the pre-reqs gifted upon them, either people have already invested the time, or they will have to. No-one is getting a "leg up" here, nor should they. No vet used 2 weaks of training to get heat thats the cold fact, youre just making up after ratioanalisations, and casting shadows. People is getting a leg for making a completely unrelated decission, thats what your defending. Please take a real stand on the issue of wry heat needs to be a specialisation. Heat is not a new module its a part of a UI redesign, just like the added type column to the overview that i did not have to train for, actually i dont think the overview really is ment for noobs so lets nerf, it with a couple of random lvl 5, idd go for preduction efficiency lvl 5, an overall wery usefull skill, that is really a mush have right . I hereby represents myself and noone but myself, please dont make my corp or aliance responsible for my foolis
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:19:00 - [372] Quote: I just mean think about if you were looking for a new MMO and heard about this game where you fly spaceships and do cool things with them like over heat your guns to hit harder or faster. It also has engineering 5 as a req, which takes what, 2 weeks as a newb? They're not going to be able to use it whether you lower req to 4 anyway, let alone the isk cost of the skill. Your point about trial and new chars is completely and entirely moot. :P
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:19:00 - [373] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 20/06/2007 20:15:34 Quote: you people shouldn't forget when you start eve a rank 3 skill takes 30 days yo lvl 5 nor should you forget that learning skills actually don't equal into a time sink And you shouldn't forget that EVE already gives new players like a month of skills free to begin with now.. Hell, I started with like 10k SP :P And about a trial char hearing heat and thinking cool.. hows that different than someone making a trial account cause they heard of carriers with tons of fighters that you can deploy and they want to play one of those? Its no different. Just cause it seems high end to us doesn't mean it is to new players. Quote: So I don't think it is too far fetched that someone would join EvE because they thought Heat sounded cool. It is a part of combat after all. Oh, and another thing, THE SKILL COSTS 4.3 MILLION ISK so new players won't be buying it anyway, it costs as much as a cruiser, and if I recall when I started, it took me a long time to simply afford to fly a cruiser, so who'd buy a skillbook for a skill that isn't incredibly useful for new players that costs that much..? do carriers stare at you in the face with a big pilot carrier now button that you can't use??? NO learning skills cost 4.5 mil and I got those in the frist month and now even those per req were lowered to allow newer players 32.452% faster sp trainging or something like that
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:21:00 - [374] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Quote: I just mean think about if you were looking for a new MMO and heard about this game where you fly spaceships and do cool things with them like over heat your guns to hit harder or faster. It also has engineering 5 as a req, which takes what, 2 weeks as a newb? They're not going to be able to use it whether you lower req to 4 anyway, let alone the isk cost of the skill. Your point about trial and new chars is completely and entirely moot. :P 2 weeks and 2-3 months is a big differnce also most new accounts start with that skill at lvl 3 or 4 now your point is mute and again learning skills that most players get in the frist month are 4.5 mil no one is saying make it easy for new players but make it plausable and have a rank 1 skill that needs lvl 5
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:23:00 - [375] Originally by: qantua gnartians Edited by: qantua gnartians on 20/06/2007 20:17:02 Originally by: Avon No, it effects everyone equally. No-one had the pre-reqs gifted upon them, either people have already invested the time, or they will have to. No-one is getting a "leg up" here, nor should they. No vet used 2 weaks of training to get heat thats the cold fact, youre just making up after ratioanalisations, and casting shadows. People is getting a leg for making a completely unrelated decission, thats what your defending. Please take a real stand on the issue of wry heat needs to be a specialisation. Heat is not a new module its a part of a UI redesign, just like the added type column to the overview that i did not have to train for, actually i dont think the overview really is ment for noobs so lets nerf, it with a couple of random lvl 5, idd go for preduction efficiency lvl 5, an overall wery usefull skill, that is really a mush have right . thank you for wording without a whine or being a bully your point is wonderful new players would get ****ed if you could see npcs without a lvl 5 skill on your overview while older players would love this idea so keep quite just in case lol
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:24:00 - [376] Quote: do carriers stare at you in the face with a big pilot carrier now button that you can't use??? NO No, but slots 1-8 all stare me in the face saying 'Hah, you can't use all of us' :P Just cause you see it doesn't mean you gotta have it.. I see hot women walking around all over the place, I don't run around screaming 'nerf me!' when I walk down the street. And I can't believe you'd advocate spending 4.5 mil on training heat rather than spending the 4.5 mil you earned in a month on Learning skills.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:24:00 - [377] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Quote: I just mean think about if you were looking for a new MMO and heard about this game where you fly spaceships and do cool things with them like over heat your guns to hit harder or faster. It also has engineering 5 as a req, which takes what, 2 weeks as a newb? They're not going to be able to use it whether you lower req to 4 anyway, let alone the isk cost of the skill. Your point about trial and new chars is completely and entirely moot. :P I was just getting into a mellow mood and then you had to come along and say something stupid. I am not saying noobs will or should be able to use it. I am saying CCP is going to make them feel left out because they can't. They are advertising the feature and it is all over the UI whether you have the skills for it or not. I swear..lol you can't even make a passing remark here without some idiot trying to start a fight over it.
Alz Shado Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:25:00 - [378] What you say: Quote: Lower the requirements, think of the noobs! What I hear: Quote: Lower the requirements, I don't have those skills yet! What you say: Quote: Don't lower the requirements, it's a benefit for veterans! What I hear: Quote: Don't lower the requirements, I've got the skills and you don't, neener!
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:28:00 - [379] Originally by: Alz Shado What you say: Quote: Lower the requirements, think of the noobs! What I hear: Quote: Lower the requirements, I don't have those skills yet! What you say: Quote: Don't lower the requirements, it's a benefit for veterans! What I hear: Quote: Don't lower the requirements, I've got the skills and you don't, neener! Haha, thats entirely what its about too.. I don't have the skills yet but I've been meaning to learn EM 5 and just haven't had a reason to until now. As soon as sig analysis 5 is done i'll start EM5 :P
Grath Telkin Amarr Bottomfeeders Inc	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:46:00 - [380] Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Quote: I just mean think about if you were looking for a new MMO and heard about this game where you fly spaceships and do cool things with them like over heat your guns to hit harder or faster. It also has engineering 5 as a req, which takes what, 2 weeks as a newb? They're not going to be able to use it whether you lower req to 4 anyway, let alone the isk cost of the skill. Your point about trial and new chars is completely and entirely moot. :P I was just getting into a mellow mood and then you had to come along and say something stupid. I am not saying noobs will or should be able to use it. I am saying CCP is going to make them feel left out because they can't. They are advertising the feature and it is all over the UI whether you have the skills for it or not. I swear..lol you can't even make a passing remark here without some idiot trying to start a fight over it. i call this point null, everything you see in a EVE add is out of the reach of a noob. and they are displayed to you just by undocking in the tutorial. You wont have any of them soon, or even close to soon, you wont afford them, some of them you wont ever afford. you SEE BS's on your first day, you see freighter, you see cruisers, CONSTANTLY. and you know what? EVENTUALLY you will have the skills to use it, just not right now. but you will still look at it everyday. CCP adds will still have titans(which 90% of us probably wont fly). If you dont realize that time in EVE determines what you can do in EVE, DESPITE WHAT YOU CAN SEE ON YOUR SCREEN EVERYDAY YOU PLAY, then the possibility exists that you are wasting your money. The first thing ive said to all the friends who ive turned on to this game is "if you cant wait around for things, dont play" They all love the game, and will patiently await the day that they can over heat their mods and destroy millions of isk without EVER loosing a ship. I am forced, by the games complexity, to assume, that no matter your personality, you must have some brains, to even be here, as this game does not lend well to stupidity. This is not a console game, it requires thought about nearly every action you make, where mistakes are critical. My point? You probably were aware in the first 24 hours that it would be awhile before you got to do some of the cooler things (cloaking, cyno, mine in an exhumer, even clone jump). Im pretty sure most of the new players will fall from the same "smart" tree as the rest of us, and will realize that they will see MANY THINGS they cant do yet, but they will all realize that eventually, they will be able to. EVEN THOUGH IT STARES THEM IN THE FACE EVERY DAY.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:48:00 - [381] well I already have EM 4 and ESO 5. EM 5 seemed like somewhat too useless skill to me. ESO brings from 0.8 to 0.75 which is in fact 6.6% bonus, while EM is 1.2->1.25 which is only 4.17% bonus for 3 times greater training time... but it needs maxing anyway so now I have a reason. however I am sure this will get nerfed as it was already done with salvaging and tractor beam skill reqs... and because even unlike salvaging and tractor beam, the heat features are built into UI and can't be hidden when impossible to use... maybe that's what CCP should do instead of prereq nerf.
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:48:00 - [382] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Quote: do carriers stare at you in the face with a big pilot carrier now button that you can't use??? NO No, but slots 1-8 all stare me in the face saying 'Hah, you can't use all of us' :P Just cause you see it doesn't mean you gotta have it.. I see hot women walking around all over the place, I don't run around screaming 'nerf me!' when I walk down the street. And I can't believe you'd advocate spending 4.5 mil on training heat rather than spending the 4.5 mil you earned in a month on Learning skills. true I wouldn't spend it on that so I got pwnd in that repect but your other point, I can turn off the other high solts and my ship doesn't have them in the fitting window either what if your ship had 8 high solts and you couldn't use them with a high slot skill?
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:50:00 - [383] Wow, another whine thread grows massively huge in a single day... Noobs should be able to use heat? Why? No they shouldn't. You don't like the skill time, don't learn it. Let people who are willing to wait learn it. Are you whining now because there's a tiny green bar above some modules? Really? Wow. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:52:00 - [384] Quote: what if your ship had 8 high solts and you couldn't use them with a high slot skill? Well, considering that that skill would be extraordinarily important, I'd spend as long as it took to get it maxed. I wouldn't care if the skill was there, everyone else had to (or has to) train the skill to use them, so I wouldn't be singled out. But heat is hardly of extreme importance, in my opinion, but its still cool, hence I'll train EM5 as soon as I finish my current skill.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:52:00 - [385] Quote: what if your ship had 8 high solts and you couldn't use them with a high slot skill? Well, considering that that skill would be extraordinarily important, I'd spend as long as it took to get it maxed. I wouldn't care if the skill was there, everyone else had to (or has to) train the skill to use them, so I wouldn't be singled out. But heat is hardly of extreme importance, in my opinion, but its still cool, hence I'll train EM5 as soon as I finish my current skill.
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:54:00 - [386] Originally by: Frug Wow, another whine thread grows massively huge in a single day... Noobs should be able to use heat? Why? No they shouldn't. You don't like the skill time, don't learn it. Let people who are willing to wait learn it. Are you whining now because there's a tiny green bar above some modules? Really? Wow. yes I am at least, the tiny green bar above my module makes it hard to tell if a module is on or not it also is there even when I can't use it get rid of it I say damn stupid buttons I can't use noobs shouldn't be able to use it but they should be able to in 4-6 weeks while training useful skills
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:54:00 - [387] Originally by: Frug Wow, another whine thread grows massively huge in a single day... Noobs should be able to use heat? Why? No they shouldn't. You don't like the skill time, don't learn it. Let people who are willing to wait learn it. Are you whining now because there's a tiny green bar above some modules? Really? Wow. yes I am at least, the tiny green bar above my module makes it hard to tell if a module is on or not it also is there even when I can't use it get rid of it I say damn stupid buttons I can't use noobs shouldn't be able to use it but they should be able to in 4-6 weeks while training useful skills
Mr Greetings	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:55:00 - [388] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Quote: what if your ship had 8 high solts and you couldn't use them with a high slot skill? Well, considering that that skill would be extraordinarily important, I'd spend as long as it took to get it maxed. I wouldn't care if the skill was there, everyone else had to (or has to) train the skill to use them, so I wouldn't be singled out. But heat is hardly of extreme importance, in my opinion, but its still cool, hence I'll train EM5 as soon as I finish my current skill. very true but your right heat isn't important so why does it take so much to use a stupid skill oh I know! I'll never train it for months! ... what the **** is it doing on my UI when I don't want to use it
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:55:00 - [389] Originally by: Alz Shado What you say: Quote: Lower the requirements, think of the noobs! What I hear: Quote: Lower the requirements, I don't have those skills yet! What you say: Quote: Don't lower the requirements, it's a benefit for veterans! What I hear: Quote: Don't lower the requirements, I've got the skills and you don't, neener! That's what I saw too....and actually did :). Unfortunately this is a whine/flame thread regardless of whose side you are on.
Mr Greetings	Posted - 2007.06.20 20:55:00 - [390] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Quote: what if your ship had 8 high solts and you couldn't use them with a high slot skill? Well, considering that that skill would be extraordinarily important, I'd spend as long as it took to get it maxed. I wouldn't care if the skill was there, everyone else had to (or has to) train the skill to use them, so I wouldn't be singled out. But heat is hardly of extreme importance, in my opinion, but its still cool, hence I'll train EM5 as soon as I finish my current skill. very true but your right heat isn't important so why does it take so much to use a stupid skill oh I know! I'll never train it for months! ... what the **** is it doing on my UI when I don't want to use it

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