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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:51:00 -
[91]
Solution: Bring it down to EM 4 but increase the Thermodynamic skill up a rank or two. That way, newer players can use Heat but will have to grind to use it more effectively.
Of course, it is probably too late to do this since the Thermodynamic skill is already seeded into the game and people have already started training it.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:52:00 -
[92]
Get rid of all pre-requisites for thermodynamics. Heat is comedically useless enough, and invades the UI so much, that it needs to be available to everyone.
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:53:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Disco Flint
Here's some fun facts:
PvPing in Recons? Not available in 2 weeks.
Solo running every level4 mission without a sweat? Not available in 2 weeks.
Setting up a POS with your corp in lowsec/0.0? Not available in 2 weeks.
Duking it out in epic (read: laggy) fleetbattles? Not available in 2 weeks.
Running support for a gang in Logistics or Command Ships? Not available in 2 weeks.
Mining & refining at reasonable efficiency? Not available in 2 weeks.
Hauling valuable goods only to lose your freighter to a suicide gank? Not availab... I think you catch my drift.
These are all features that define EVE and these are all features that attract players; yet they demand a lot of investment in skills, time and ISK.
The very idea that you can PvP only versus people in the same skillpoint range is very flawed and imported from other MMOs.
being a forum *****? instant! j/k 
____________________________________________
Originally by: Marduk Felzhen
You have an amazing cleavage, except you have no arms :(
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Ajulutsikael
No. Everyone with 5 mil SP and any sense at all should already have those skills anyway. 
You are being sarcastic, right?
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Na'Kunni
Amarr
Null Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:56:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
As an amarr without Energy Management at lvl5 already I pity you.
FFS DO YOU PEOPLE NOT LISTEN..
I USE A DAMN CAP BOOSTER ON EVERY ONE OF MY SHIPS, ENERGY MANAGEMENT 5 ISNT NEEDED IF I HAVE A RATHER LARGE AMOUNT OF CAP ANYWAY + A NOS....
I AM A AMARR WITH ENERGY MANAGEMENT 4...
now that will hopefulyl get noticed, so nxt time dnt bother replying with your amarr you need EM 5 anyways... cuz i don't an is eriously do think EM 5 is a sink for a rank 3 skill anyway
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Ficklfrosch
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:57:00 -
[96]
Signed!
Make new options available for new players too and not only for the old ones. Decrease needed skills on heat!
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:57:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Ajulutsikael
No. Everyone with 5 mil SP and any sense at all should already have those skills anyway.
You are being sarcastic, right?
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
That is strange because on every single message board I have seen where a noob asks for advice, the Vets always forgot to mention that Energy Management 5 should be one of the very first thing you train.
Well until now.... But i guess it is easier to remember when there is an agenda attached to the advice.
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Nicole KholdStare
Gallente
QUANT Corp.
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:01:00 -
[98]
I think CCP does this on purpose. This way a lot less people are able to play with the new features, which means a lot less people will come complain on the forums/file petitions, thus easing the load that is caused by the patch. Then they go ahead and lower the requirements after a week or two when the flood has gone down a bit.
It was like this with a lot of other mods, salvagers and probes for example.
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justcheckingthemarket
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:02:00 -
[99]
serieosly energy management 5 is something EVERYONE wants to save at some point, so it'S just a little more motivation to get started with it.
and as others mentioned before, overloading your modules is nothing you'll do regularly and it won't be strictly necessary to be able to complete, but you'll probably won't get it anyway.
sorry if i spoiled your whine ^^
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:03:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Nicole KholdStare
I think CCP does this on purpose. This way a lot less people are able to play with the new features, which means a lot less people will come complain on the forums/file petitions, thus easing the load that is caused by the patch. Then they go ahead and lower the requirements after a week or two when the flood has gone down a bit.
It was like this with a lot of other mods, salvagers and probes for example.
I hope its that way and its just ccp's usual pre-nerf tactics.
Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking |
Bobby Newark
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:04:00 -
[101]
Why is it that most newer players think its there god given right to have access to all new content immediately. There is so much content in eve. so many things to train for, so much to learn. why cry about thermodynamics req's?
The mindset is all wrong and the sad thing is when enough of you cry it gets changed.
I for one hope they keep the current requirements.
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Na'Kunni
Amarr
Null Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:04:00 -
[102]
Originally by: justcheckingthemarket
serieosly energy management 5 is something EVERYONE wants to save at some point, so it'S just a little more motivation to get started with it.
and as others mentioned before, overloading your modules is nothing you'll do regularly and it won't be strictly necessary to be able to complete, but you'll probably won't get it anyway.
sorry if i spoiled your whine ^^
Nope, you aint spoiled my whine, you've not said anything different to what the other anti-whine posters have said...
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:06:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Ajulutsikael
No. Everyone with 5 mil SP and any sense at all should already have those skills anyway.
You are being sarcastic, right?
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
That is strange because on every single message board I have seen where a noob asks for advice, the Vets always forgot to mention that Energy Management 5 should be one of the very first thing you train.
Well until now.... But i guess it is easier to remember when there is an agenda attached to the advice.
Have you ever seen me post on one of those boards? No? Good, cause if you had, someone would have been stealing my account to do so. :P Sorry to burst your bubble but I've always given this advice to new members of my corp and I'm currently mocking the members of my corp and alliance on our internal forums who are whinging about the exact same thing as you, so there is no agenda here. I am genuinely surprised that people don't regard EM 5 as worth training, the attitude baffles me. 
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:08:00 -
[104]
Originally by: justcheckingthemarket
serieosly energy management 5 is something EVERYONE wants to save at some point, so it'S just a little more motivation to get started with it.
and as others mentioned before, overloading your modules is nothing you'll do regularly and it won't be strictly necessary to be able to complete, but you'll probably won't get it anyway.
sorry if i spoiled your whine ^^
Whether you use it regularly or not is pretty irrelevant. It is still a new feature which people were looking forward to using but it turned out to be just another toy for "the haves."
The "Have nots" get to train for it for 2-3 weeks and THEN train another skill after that. This is called a "time sink" and a rather large one at that.
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Plan Neun
Caldari
Ganja Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:09:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Lyn Bunnions
EM V takes about 17 days to train for. It's borderline useless and an insane time sink.
However, as another poster said on another forum: Just don't train TD and you'll have the benefit of never laggily/accidentally blowing up your guns. :P
Training 17 days for a lvl 5 skill is nothing.
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Na'Kunni
Amarr
Null Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:10:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Ajulutsikael
No. Everyone with 5 mil SP and any sense at all should already have those skills anyway.
You are being sarcastic, right?
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
That is strange because on every single message board I have seen where a noob asks for advice, the Vets always forgot to mention that Energy Management 5 should be one of the very first thing you train.
Well until now.... But i guess it is easier to remember when there is an agenda attached to the advice.
Have you ever seen me post on one of those boards? No? Good, cause if you had, someone would have been stealing my account to do so. :P Sorry to burst your bubble but I've always given this advice to new members of my corp and I'm currently mocking the members of my corp and alliance on our internal forums who are whinging about the exact same thing as you, so there is no agenda here. I am genuinely surprised that people don't regard EM 5 as worth training, the attitude baffles me.
energy management should be trained to 4 imo by everyone, an ONLY to 5, when they have the time to invest in it
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Lyn Bunnions
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:10:00 -
[107]
EM V is needed if you really really need a cap stable setup(and it depends on a 4% boost, which is often unlikely). The edge it offers for people who don't fly caps or very sensitive mission boats is minor. I'm sure it is required for SOME particular ship fittings but if you, for instance, fly Caldari, Minmatar or Gallente(non, blaster boats) you can probably not have it and never notice the difference.
Also it takes over 2 weeks to train for. If I want to train something with no real benefit that takes that long I'll train Cruiser V of some race, takes a bit longer but at least it unlocks useful ships.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:12:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Ajulutsikael
No. Everyone with 5 mil SP and any sense at all should already have those skills anyway.
You are being sarcastic, right?
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
That is strange because on every single message board I have seen where a noob asks for advice, the Vets always forgot to mention that Energy Management 5 should be one of the very first thing you train.
Well until now.... But i guess it is easier to remember when there is an agenda attached to the advice.
Have you ever seen me post on one of those boards? No? Good, cause if you had, someone would have been stealing my account to do so. :P Sorry to burst your bubble but I've always given this advice to new members of my corp and I'm currently mocking the members of my corp and alliance on our internal forums who are whinging about the exact same thing as you, so there is no agenda here. I am genuinely surprised that people don't regard EM 5 as worth training, the attitude baffles me.
I am not saying it isn't worth training. I think it is a very good skill to get. However, a newer player who has a stack of skills piling up just so he can fly something like a Cruiser or a BC effectively isn't going to want to take 3 weeks out of that training to do this. If he does, he is pushed even further behind.
Whatever you tell your corpmates is fine but I never seen anyone tell anyone on this board or any other that EM 5 is a "must get" as soon as possible. Especially never seen it said to a newer player.
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Anehra
X-Fire
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:15:00 -
[109]
It's fine as it is.
I have a 2 years old pure Amarr pilot with Energy Management 4. He'll have to suck it up and train 5. Was never a probl to have 4 only, and he's purely pvp.. cap boosters vs nossers, apart from that he did fine. Now he'll train EM5 and well, it's a nice boost for any race tbh, just annoying 'to have to do it'. Sure it'll take him another 2 weeks now to get whateverskillhe'dtrainelseways but does it matter, over time?
It's not as anyone is forced to train it. It's an optional skill which you train if you think it's worth it. Your choice - do you want the skill? Train EM5. As I have trained alot of skills during the years, skills I didn't want to train but it was required for other ships to use. Logistics for the Command Ship anyone? Leadership 5 anyone? Warfare Link Specialist anyone? I never use those skills, still I trained it just to drive wtfpwnzships. ;)
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Laughlyn Vaughns
Gallente
Lagos-Vaughn Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:16:00 -
[110]
i dont think the needed skills are too much, they benefit ur ship and give u access to overheat ur modules, all in all u cant really lose by gettin engineering and management to 5. i had to get engineerign to lv5 to use some of my modules and i had to get both the cap amount and recharge speed to lv5 to make my typhoons tank run and i hd to get electronics to lv5 to get everything on my nightmare. i had to get siege and cruise missiles to lv5 to use my Tech II launchers and i had to get all my shield skills upto lv5 to use a drake properly. sumtimes u just have to STFU and accept that u have to train a to Lv5 once in a while and quit whimpering about it. i want Tech II lasers or howies but i have to get large gunnery lv5 they take forever and yes i have more skills to get out the way first, i've been trainign towards Tech II 1400mm howies for about 18months now but stuff keeps coming up to train up luckily i have my medium spec to lv3 now but i till keep trundling along
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Ethaet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:17:00 -
[111]
Originally by: James Duar
Get rid of all pre-requisites for thermodynamics. Heat is comedically useless enough, and invades the UI so much, that it needs to be available to everyone.
Or just removing it entirely would probably be better.
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Unaralas
Save our Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:17:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Na'Kunni
*snip*
energy management should be trained to 4 imo by everyone, an ONLY to 5, when they have the time to invest in it
Well now you've got a bigger incentive to invest that time.
EM5 is ALOT more useful than having access to Heat ever will be.
Whinethreads like this really do make me sad. If this happens, I'll be as ****ed as I was when they lowered the reqs for Adv Learning skills. |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:19:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
I am not saying it isn't worth training. I think it is a very good skill to get. However, a newer player who has a stack of skills piling up just so he can fly something like a Cruiser or a BC effectively isn't going to want to take 3 weeks out of that training to do this. If he does, he is pushed even further behind.
And I'm saying that 'heat' is not and should not be new player content. I understand that many people here disagree, but to me it does come across as the sort of thing that only experienced pilots should be trying.
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Whatever you tell your corpmates is fine but I never seen anyone tell anyone on this board or any other that EM 5 is a "must get" as soon as possible. Especially never seen it said to a newer player.
I don't doubt you, I've not looked at those boards for years so I can't comment but sentiment in this thread seems to bear you out on that point.
I just don't happen to agree with you. 
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Na'Kunni
Amarr
Null Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:20:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Anehra
It's fine as it is.
I have a 2 years old
That's where i stopped reading
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:20:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
Over what? Frig/cruiser 5? t2 medium weapons? Decent nav skills? t2 tanking skills? Learning skills?
There is a point where (without heat) EM5 is time/effect wise a good idea to train. At 4.4 mil SP this point is by far not there yet though.
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:28:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
Over what? Frig/cruiser 5? t2 medium weapons? Decent nav skills? t2 tanking skills? Learning skills?
There is a point where (without heat) EM5 is time/effect wise a good idea to train. At 4.4 mil SP this point is by far not there yet though.
Personally? I wouldn't recommend a new character move from destroyers to cruisers without getting engineering, electronics and both cap skills to 5 and most of the rest of the engineering and basic electronics skills to 4. Oh and the seven non jump drive related navigation skills to at least 4, and if Caldari getting the shield hp and shield recharge skills to 5 too. So about 5 mil SP at least. That's off the top of my head so I've almost certainly missed things there.
I'm aware that this makes me a lone voice in the wilderness. 
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:28:00 -
[117]
The required skills for TD are fine imo.
What should be shanged is the UI for when you haven't trained the skill yet.
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:29:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
The required skills for TD are fine imo.
What should be shanged is the UI for when you haven't trained the skill yet.
They should change the UI for when you have too. Damn but it takes up space. 
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Na'Kunni
Amarr
Null Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:31:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
Over what? Frig/cruiser 5? t2 medium weapons? Decent nav skills? t2 tanking skills? Learning skills?
There is a point where (without heat) EM5 is time/effect wise a good idea to train. At 4.4 mil SP this point is by far not there yet though.
Personally? I wouldn't recommend a new character move from destroyers to cruisers without getting engineering, electronics and both cap skills to 5 and most of the rest of the engineering and basic electronics skills to 4. Oh and the seven non jump drive related navigation skills to at least 4, and if Caldari getting the shield hp and shield recharge skills to 5 too. So about 5 mil SP at least. That's off the top of my head so I've almost certainly missed things there.
I'm aware that this makes me a lone voice in the wilderness.
So your telling me when you was a noob, you trained all them skills before you moved to a cruiser, get real....
I wouldn't advise anyone to train a skill to level 5 in such an early time in thier career... I would hate for you to be my personal trainer/helper within the game, an i feel sorry for the people who are.....
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:32:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Hasak Rain
I am not saying it isn't worth training. I think it is a very good skill to get. However, a newer player who has a stack of skills piling up just so he can fly something like a Cruiser or a BC effectively isn't going to want to take 3 weeks out of that training to do this. If he does, he is pushed even further behind.
And I'm saying that 'heat' is not and should not be new player content. I understand that many people here disagree, but to me it does come across as the sort of thing that only experienced pilots should be trying.
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Whatever you tell your corpmates is fine but I never seen anyone tell anyone on this board or any other that EM 5 is a "must get" as soon as possible. Especially never seen it said to a newer player.
I don't doubt you, I've not looked at those boards for years so I can't comment but sentiment in this thread seems to bear you out on that point.
I just don't happen to agree with you.
I will use myself as an example: I am not that new to the game {10M SPs} and I do some PvP and PvE. I never thought to myself "Wow, I am really hurting because I don't have that EM 5 trained yet." I have even {gasp} killed people without it.
Would I be better off with EM5?....yep.
Do I need it to PvP and win?......nope.
Oh and the "sentiment in this thread" is loaded with vets who are telling newer players to "suck it up" since they themselves already have the skill trained. {big surprise there.} It is pretty easy to say that at that point. I wouldn't put any stock into the overall sentiment of this thread since the vets want to keep their "elite status" and the easy way to do that is to have things that others do not have.
Oh and it is okay that you disagree with me. That is what these boards are for.
This issue really isn't THAT important to me because EM 5 was high on my "to do list" anyway but I am drinking a lot of coffee and it is downtime so I am just discussing it and agree with those in the same boat as I am.
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