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Thermodynamic's Reduce to Energy Management 4 please! (First Whine)

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Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:38:00 - [241] Edited by: Hasak Rain on 20/06/2007 15:37:31 Originally by: Gladia Horusthu How about we keep the skill requirements where they are at? I recycled my vet character, so I don't have those skills yet. But I can promise you that every one of those skills is WORTH IT just for its own sake. Energy Management 5 for 5% more cap than level 4? Cmon, in battle cap = life. If you are anticipating using the heat feature, you should be making a beeline for this anyway. Science 4? Infomorph Psychology. You pewpew, you should want this skill too for rapid deployment. Engineering 5? A must to fit the best you can on your ship. Not one of those skills is "wasted." There are a lot of other skills with prereqs that make me mad as hell at having to train them, but these make sense, in my opinion. S Why is everyone assuming that every pilot in this game PvP's? Sure in PvP, cap = life but in PvE, there are mods which supply extra cap such as Cap Rechargers for us Abaddon Pilots not to mention CCC rigs. What i am pointing out is if I did no PvP and just ran missions, Energy Management 5 would be very low on the totem pole of things for me to train because while cap is still important in a mission, 5% for 3 weeks worth of training isn't something I would jump on quickly. Furthermore, PvE players would like to use Heat too but are stuck training a skill which isn't quite as important to them as it is to a PvPer. And yeah I know running missions or ratting all day isn't what EvE is about and is basically looked down upon but that is irrelevant when a good percentage of the player base does play that way regardless and they are paying CCP a subscription. Ask CCP if they matter or not.
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:38:00 - [242] Originally by: Na'Kunni Originally by: Gladia Horusthu How about we keep the skill requirements where they are at? I recycled my vet character, so I don't have those skills yet. But I can promise you that every one of those skills is WORTH IT just for its own sake. Energy Management 5 for 5% more cap than level 4? Cmon, in battle cap = life. If you are anticipating using the heat feature, you should be making a beeline for this anyway. Science 4? Infomorph Psychology. You pewpew, you should want this skill too for rapid deployment. Engineering 5? A must to fit the best you can on your ship. Not one of those skills is "wasted." There are a lot of other skills with prereqs that make me mad as hell at having to train them, but these make sense, in my opinion. S In battle cap means life, where do cap boosters come into the equastion, $%!"ú to everyone saying energy management 5 is a required skill, it isnt, it does fine at lvl 4. I wish peopel would actually read the thread before posting And I wish you'd accept that quite a few of us disagree with you and your opinions. Stating that 'cap boosters mean you don't need EM 5' over and over again is not going to actually make us believe you when we've all generally found that not to be the case. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Tenebrion Darkness	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:39:00 - [243] You're right, EM 4 is acceptable for many peoples builds, however EM 5 is now a req for a diff skill, so get training.
La Tortura Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:40:00 - [244] Quote: And I wish you'd accept that quite a few of us disagree with you and your opinions. Stating that 'cap boosters mean you don't need EM 5' over and over again is not going to actually make us believe you when we've all generally found that not to be the case. Show us your killboard -- ignorance is bliss
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:41:00 - [245] Originally by: Alex Tremayne Originally by: James Duar And at any rate - no one is going to use heat for PvE. No kidding? I'd never have worked that out if you hadn't told me. Some of us PvPers do however do PvE to make cash to buy our shiny ships and mods for PvP. PvP and PvE are not mutually exclusive. And you might notice that part where I pointed out that your statement that you "need" EM5 for that is incorrect to.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:43:00 - [246] Edited by: Hasak Rain on 20/06/2007 15:42:54 Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: James Duar And at any rate - no one is going to use heat for PvE. Why not? It's not like nobody's ever had a "do or die" situation happen while ratting or mission running. That's true, but I think it's safe to say that Heat is far more a PvP thing than a PvE one. I would use Heat in PvE if it helped me get out of one of the numerous cluster ****s I get myself into on lvl 4's . I don't see it as a PvP only feature at all.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:45:00 - [247] Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: James Duar And at any rate - no one is going to use heat for PvE. Why not? It's not like nobody's ever had a "do or die" situation happen while ratting or mission running. That's true, but I think it's safe to say that Heat is far more a PvP thing than a PvE one. I would use Heat in PvE if it helped me get out of one of the numerous cluster ****s I get myself into on lvl4'w . I don't see it as a PvP only feature at all. PvE is very much about sustainability, which is pretty much the antithesis of heat. Couple that to the chance based mechanic, and you'd be doing pretty poorly to depend on it in any way for PvE. Or more accurately - if you're tank is not holding, using Heat will probably just get you killed faster when your reppers blow up.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:46:00 - [248] Originally by: Hasak Rain Edited by: Hasak Rain on 20/06/2007 15:42:54 Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: James Duar And at any rate - no one is going to use heat for PvE. Why not? It's not like nobody's ever had a "do or die" situation happen while ratting or mission running. That's true, but I think it's safe to say that Heat is far more a PvP thing than a PvE one. I would use Heat in PvE if it helped me get out of one of the numerous cluster ****s I get myself into on lvl 4's . I don't see it as a PvP only feature at all. Notice that I said "more" not "only". In general, you'll get in tight situations in PvE WAY less than in PvP, so heat will be more usefull for PvP.
The Judge FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:47:00 - [249] Simple arguement is that we needed to train that skill, so why should new players not have to train it as well ? If you didn't start the game 4 years ago as well, then guess who's fault that is ... Besides you're arguing over a skill that is actually quite useful and only takes a few weeks to train, i want to train carrier 5 and it takes nearly 2 months and you don't see me whining about it.
Na'Kunni Amarr Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:49:00 - [250] Originally by: La Tortura Quote: And I wish you'd accept that quite a few of us disagree with you and your opinions. Stating that 'cap boosters mean you don't need EM 5' over and over again is not going to actually make us believe you when we've all generally found that not to be the case. Show us your killboard
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:51:00 - [251] Originally by: The Judge Simple arguement is that we needed to train that skill, so why should new players not have to train it as well ? If you didn't start the game 4 years ago as well, then guess who's fault that is ... Besides you're arguing over a skill that is actually quite useful and only takes a few weeks to train, i want to train carrier 5 and it takes nearly 2 months and you don't see me whining about it. I see a ship costing 20 billion ISK, requiring POS's to build and generally the backing of an alliance able to defend the space its in for long enough to do that. Do you think that perhaps, just maybe, there's a vast difference between the benefits conferred by a mothership proportionally, and the benefits heat is going to confer?
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:53:00 - [252] Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 20/06/2007 15:52:23 Originally by: The Judge Simple arguement is that we needed to train that skill, so why should new players not have to train it as well ? If you didn't start the game 4 years ago as well, then guess who's fault that is ... Besides you're arguing over a skill that is actually quite useful and only takes a few weeks to train, i want to train carrier 5 and it takes nearly 2 months and you don't see me whining about it. There's a difference between that and the prereqs for Heat, tbh. I'm a CBC pilot, and I have no problem with the fact that it takes forever to train for one, as it is a highly specialised path to take. On the other hand, Heat is something everyone needs, not just a very specialised branch of peeps (like Command Ship pilots... and Carrier pilots )
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:55:00 - [253] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: James Duar And at any rate - no one is going to use heat for PvE. Why not? It's not like nobody's ever had a "do or die" situation happen while ratting or mission running. That's true, but I think it's safe to say that Heat is far more a PvP thing than a PvE one. I would use Heat in PvE if it helped me get out of one of the numerous cluster ****s I get myself into on lvl4'w . I don't see it as a PvP only feature at all. PvE is very much about sustainability, which is pretty much the antithesis of heat. Couple that to the chance based mechanic, and you'd be doing pretty poorly to depend on it in any way for PvE. Or more accurately - if you're tank is not holding, using Heat will probably just get you killed faster when your reppers blow up. If I were only in this game to mission run {I am not...just saying} I wouldn't depend on Heat anymore than a PvP pilot would but it would be a tool that is there and available to me for use. Everyone is trying to paint this picture where Heat is only going to be used as a last ditch effort in PvP to take someone down with you but that is bull. There is going to be quite a few uses for it.
Tenebrion Darkness	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:57:00 - [254] Edited by: Tenebrion Darkness on 20/06/2007 16:04:02 Than as such it should be something you have to train for. If people dont feel like EM 5 is needed than I don't see why they feel they should get heat either. edit: for clarity
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 15:59:00 - [255] Originally by: Tenebrion Darkness Than as such it should be something you have to train for. If people dont feel like EM 5 is needed than I don't see why they feel they need heat either. Uh...they are two different things? What does not caring about 5% more Cap have to do with wanting to overheat modules?
emepror Gallente Flying Spaghetti Monsterz FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:07:00 - [256] dont change the requirments at all!!! yes noobs may have a bit of a harder time gfetting it but dont you think they should be working on support skills for the modules not skills that can kill those mods, and if you were like me 2 years ago i had a hard enough time buying new ships
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:10:00 - [257] Originally by: emepror dont change the requirments at all!!! yes noobs may have a bit of a harder time gfetting it but dont you think they should be working on support skills for the modules not skills that can kill those mods, and if you were like me 2 years ago i had a hard enough time buying new ships I'm not a noob, and I neither have EM 5 nor plan to train it in the immediate future.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:15:00 - [258] Originally by: emepror dont change the requirments at all!!! yes noobs may have a bit of a harder time gfetting it but dont you think they should be working on support skills for the modules not skills that can kill those mods, and if you were like me 2 years ago i had a hard enough time buying new ships No offense but what buying a ship was like two years ago is irrelevant. Games evolve and usually get easier in time. I respect what Vets had to go through in "the good ole days" until they start using it in a debate like it matters.
justcheckingthemarket	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:20:00 - [259] oh come on guys stop this annoying whine, i really HOPE ccp is going to ignore this large amount of stupidity!!
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:20:00 - [260] Originally by: Hasak Rain I respect what Vets had to go through in "the good ole days" until they start using it in a debate like it matters. Then by extension neither does the opinion of new players, since in time that opinion is rendered irrelevant. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:22:00 - [261] Originally by: justcheckingthemarket oh come on guys stop this annoying whine, i really HOPE ccp is going to ignore this large amount of stupidity!! They won't ignore it. Did you read in the other thread where they posted that they don't consider it whining and look at it from both sides and welcome feedback? No guess you didn't.
Na'Kunni Amarr Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:22:00 - [262] Originally by: justcheckingthemarket oh come on guys stop this annoying whine, i really HOPE ccp is going to ignore this large amount of stupidity!! Before you make a comment, please post with you main like many others, an stop hiding behind an alt...
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:25:00 - [263] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Hasak Rain I respect what Vets had to go through in "the good ole days" until they start using it in a debate like it matters. Then by extension neither does the opinion of new players, since in time that opinion is rendered irrelevant. How so? It is the new players who don't have the skill trained and face the long training path to get Heat. I think their opinion holds a lot of weight. I never said Vet's opinions do not matter. I said bringing up "the good ole days" is a nice bedtime story but really has nothing to do with the topic.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:28:00 - [264] Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Hasak Rain I respect what Vets had to go through in "the good ole days" until they start using it in a debate like it matters. Then by extension neither does the opinion of new players, since in time that opinion is rendered irrelevant. How so? It is the new players who don't have the skill trained and face the long training path to get Heat. I think their opinion holds a lot of weight. I never said Vet's opinions do not matter. I said bringing up "the good ole days" is a nice bedtime story but really has nothing to do with the topic. I concur. If things are different today, it's because CCP felt that something wasn't right. So bringing back "the good old days" as an argument is pretty flawed in itself.
Habraka Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:28:00 - [265] I like the current skill requirements, but that's cause I have already trained them and a lot of people haven't.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:29:00 - [266] Originally by: Melissa Ravenflame Originally by: Mashie Saldana Keep the prerequsites as they are. Heat is the path to Tech III so shouldn't be noob friendly. Btw, I'm training energy management lvl 5 myself right now. Amen. As stated before, heat is the second step towards T3. The first step is getting your skills high enough to use heat. We hear the occasional whine about how hard the skill reqs are for T2 with the need for skills at level 5. Thankfully they get ignored by CCP as T2 is something special and should take a lot of time to achieve. T3 should be certainly be no easier than T2 to achieve. Really? I honestly did not know this. Somebody should have brought this up 9 pages ago.
Tenebrion Darkness	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:31:00 - [267] I do not wish to see EvE get "easier" over time. That is to say everything is handed to the player without any effort, of course those who put in the time will find things easier as time goes by.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:31:00 - [268] Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Melissa Ravenflame Originally by: Mashie Saldana Keep the prerequsites as they are. Heat is the path to Tech III so shouldn't be noob friendly. Btw, I'm training energy management lvl 5 myself right now. Amen. As stated before, heat is the second step towards T3. The first step is getting your skills high enough to use heat. We hear the occasional whine about how hard the skill reqs are for T2 with the need for skills at level 5. Thankfully they get ignored by CCP as T2 is something special and should take a lot of time to achieve. T3 should be certainly be no easier than T2 to achieve. Really? I honestly did not know this. Somebody should have brought this up 9 pages ago. The Devs mentioned that MAYBE, heat and T3 will be intertwined. So jumping the waggon and saying IT WILL be tied to T3 is silly.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:31:00 - [269] NO NO NO NO NO NO WE arent going to go through the bleeden slavging thing again ccp better not give into the whining noobs this time snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.06.20 16:32:00 - [270] Originally by: SasRipper NO NO NO NO NO NO WE arent going to go through the bleeden slavging thing again ccp better not give into the whining noobs this time Did you not learn your lesson last time?

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