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Thermodynamic's Reduce to Energy Management 4 please! (First Whine)

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Na'Kunni Amarr Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.19 23:58:00 - [31] Originally by: XxGridlockxX Yeah CCP while your at it can you Reduce the Skills for titan to Spaceship command 3 and Frigate 3...oh yeah also can you change it so i just press one button to win eve thanks..... ( if you whine they shall succumb... ) "Eve online motto" You sir! Fail at your supposidly funny/sarcastic comment, move along!
Carden Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.19 23:59:00 - [32] Edited by: Carden on 20/06/2007 00:23:50 Edited by: Carden on 19/06/2007 23:59:19 Originally by: Na'Kunni Edited by: Na''Kunni on 19/06/2007 23:20:55 Can't we make Thermodynamic's only require Engineering level 5 + Energy Management/science level 4 I have a sad 28 million skill points under my belt and can't use this yet, it's set at a fair level if you want to use big toys you should have to work for them. Energy management 5 will take what 2 weeks? Whining on this is a bad joke... Edit: spelling errors Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Gareth Angel The Plexus Syndicate The Order of New Eden	Posted - 2007.06.20 00:14:00 - [33] Originally by: Na'Kunni All you people telling me to stop whining, your all wrong, I have a right to express my opinion, I pay for this game aswell as you do, I gave my opinion and it sticks as still being to high regardless of whether i want to go train it. Fair enough. But then let those who oppose your opinion express theirs as well... Originally by: Na'Kunni the thing im saying with vet's is, most (not all), will probably have energy management 5/engineering 5 + a **load of other skills & SP, already using most T2 stuff/best setup, rich as with faction modules ect ect. ya get where im coming from??, but yet ims till ont he training curve, of actually becoming effective in a BC, an not just a ceptor. As I've stated before - that's why they're VETs man! Come on! Who do you think you are blaming other people for playing the game longer than you have? Not very strange some have more isk/skillpoints/ships/whatever than you. Noticed how I said 'some'? Cuz many new players who planned well have more riches than the majority of the 'vets', I tell you. Not being in the same skillpoint league does not justify your call for a prerequisits nerf on a brand-new skill that you cannot train yet. Originally by:** Na'Kunni And im guessing a hell of a lot of people are in the same boat, but then they ahve to re-route thier training to train for an extra 5% cap & to use "Heat". "Have to...", now where in Eve's manual it says you 'have to' start training every new skill immediately when it comes out? Or that you 'have to' do this to stay competitive? Have you seen 'heat' in action yet? Have you been greatly griefed by anyone using it against you? Or are you just being a little early and unfair about it now... Originally by: Na'Kunni And again ill will tell you, this is a request, which is also a whine, either post something usefull like a few have "hats of to you", but for the people who are saying "go play other game, ur jus a whinz0r", please refrain from posting. Instead of asking for 'hats off', you'd better start training some skills, like a lot of us already did (because we play the game longer than you). To be honest, I don't think my previous post was that nasty to you. I just hope that when trying to make others see your point, you really have to try and see theirs too. You might be wrong on this one, is what I am trying to tell you. Now go train skills!
Caia Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.06.20 00:54:00 - [34] I was a bit shocked at the requirement, to be honest. I'd thought I'd be able to jump right into testing it out. Apparently, I have to wait a few weeks. Energy Management 4 would seem to be a better fit. On a side note, anyone seen the cost of the BPOs for the bombs? Just under 200M. Yikes, was expecting half that.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.20 01:00:00 - [35] Even better are the requirements for triage and pos gun controlling. Logistics 4 and Anchoring 5. Totally unlrelated skills being used as a time sink ftfl.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.06.20 01:05:00 - [36] I got ****** over with Salvaging, so I'm taking my time with this one. And while +5% cap is nice, it's not worth the 2 weeks of training to me just yet, so I'll be waiting until I'm done training the other stuff I want to train first, and see if CCP lowers the requirements. Shame though, cause I really liked playing around with heat on Sisi.
Logi3 Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.20 08:39:00 - [37] Its not ment to be a tool to use to wtfpwn everything in site. Its a last resort, and those skills are a must imo for any race. The only people who are moaning are the lazy people who cant be arsed to train for it. Well, its tough. Get training. And if CCP lower the requirements on this, then its clear they bow to the people who moan in this game. To that, i give you the V
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:04:00 - [38] I think the skill requirement for the new items has been way too high. There are extreme skill requirements for heat, and for pos defense. Both taking well over a month to train to any acceptable level. I know that they are probably making them longer so the bored cap ship pilots will have something to train for and not feel 'maxed out' but **** CCP think about the little guys for a change Long skill training queues ftl ccp Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:07:00 - [39] Edited by: Plan Neun on 20/06/2007 09:06:28 Originally by: Ishina Fel Heat is not supposed to be a feature everyone uses in every battle and/or mission. Heat is supposed to be a "Oh ****!" button you press when you're already done for, in hopes that it will save your hide at the cost of a couple offlined modules, so you can creep back to a station and repair. I don't think you're missing out on much anyway. After the first time testing it, I suppose you come to the exact same conclusion as the paragraph above - that it isn't worth doing it all the time anyway. So I wouldn't give it too much of a 'must have' factor. Totaly agree this is a panic button and should be used with care. I have all the req's and will train it asap. Hopefully i will never have the need to use it. But I dont think it is CCP intension that this panic button will be easy to achive, I have no prob however that powerhungry gankers want this for more or less for free.
Melor Rend	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:17:00 - [40] i agree that eneregy managment is not the most important skill to train to five (except maybe for amarr)... in fact of all the cap-skills i think it's the one that the fewest people will actually train to five... it takes about 12-15 days to train from 4 to 5 and the gain is simply not that huge imho. i woudn't mind if CCP reduced the reqs to eneregy management 4 instead of 5... but i guess a few time sinks such as these are needed so we all keep paying up for another good few years.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:21:00 - [41] No. I got 3 chars, all has EM lvl5. Go train you nub. "to be honest it makes me wonder about the mental state of a person who would join a corp called Space Perverts and Forum warriors"
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:23:00 - [42] Well I think that the requirements should be reduced to having level 4 anchoring for pos defense, and lv4 energy management for heat. That means that using these will require some skill investment, but wont be too extremely hard for newer players to train. Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Edania Caldari Ordo Adeptus Astartes Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:26:00 - [43] Even if you do train Energy managment 5 because you feel you "have to" which you do not your hardly losing out you still get the benefit of energy managment that is well worth having for anything save cookie cutter ravens. there are pre-reqs out there that ive done that are even more utterly useless, like the one to get covert ops needs electronic upgrades 5 a totally pointless skill save for what it enables, you just have to suck it up, any "vet" here has done just as much training of ridiculous skills to get somthing they wanted, if this attitude on the forums had exsisted at eves dawn then i have no doubt that racial battleship would instead have only needed racial cruiser 3 today. oh as an aside heat sucks anyway unless your about to die. you cant micromanage it to not take no/very low damage so once activated your weapons degrade very rapidly Quote: my Clone was excelent, i just had too many skillpoints
DeadRow Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:26:00 - [44] Originally by: ho chiminh Please explain why you have not already maximized your powergrid and capacitor storage!?!?! These are essential skills for any 6 month old character. I've been playing coming on 3 years now and I still don't have EM5 on this Char, had it on my first one and didn't see that much difference tbh so didn't bother. Anyways, leave the requirements as they are- its only like a 2 week skill for lvl5 if you want Heat that bad. /DeadRow
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:29:00 - [45] Oh btw, having command ships lvl5, medium pulse spec lvl5 (heck, i even got recon lvl5, hac lvl5) to get bit more damage is always very nice. Having 8.5x damage mod with one heatsink is priceless "to be honest it makes me wonder about the mental state of a person who would join a corp called Space Perverts and Forum warriors"
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Na'Kunni Can't we make Thermodynamic's only require Engineering level 5 + Energy Management/science level 4 Why always lower and lower the requirements?? I think it is perfectly fine as it is. If you want something special, work for it. 15 days skilltraining isn't that much! If 15 days are too long for you, then I think this heat stuff has just not worth to you. With the same arguments above you can say: awwwww, capital ships are so skill and isk intense, lower the requirements! BS 5! Capital ship skill! Poor noob never can get this! Such skills ARE NOT MEANT to be for the noobs. They are meant for the experienced guys! (btw: i also lack eng mngt V, but so what?)
Santa Anna	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:33:00 - [47] Edited by: Santa Anna on 20/06/2007 09:33:39 Originally by: Plan Neun Edited by: Plan Neun on 20/06/2007 09:06:28 Originally by: Ishina Fel Heat is not supposed to be a feature everyone uses in every battle and/or mission. Heat is supposed to be a "Oh ***!" button you press when you're already done for, in hopes that it will save your hide at the cost of a couple offlined modules, so you can creep back to a station and repair. I don't think you're missing out on much anyway. After the first time testing it, I suppose you come to the exact same conclusion as the paragraph above - that it isn't worth doing it all the time anyway. So I wouldn't give it too much of a 'must have' factor. Totaly agree this is a panic button and should be used with care. I have all the req's and will train it asap. Hopefully i will never have the need to use it. But I dont think it is CCP intension that this panic button will be easy to achive, I have no prob however that powerhungry gankers want this for more or less for free. For high/low slot overloading, maybe. There's no reason not* to go around with web and scram overloaded at all times while PVPing, though. If you fit a MWD you have a huge damage sink sharing the rack, leaving a heat user able to web 90% at 13km with t1 mods. Once you've snared your prey, you just un-overload the relevant mods. This will make gallente significantly more powerful against Minmatar ships battlecruiser and below because of Minmatar falloff tactics. In general, this increases the volume of the "sphere of death" around a Gallente blaster ship with t1 web by 120%. Overloaded ecm also looks pretty tasty, though I didn't get a chance to try that out on test. edit- fixed a couple things.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:35:00 - [48] You should be greatful tbh, it's a skill that everyone should have to 5. DE
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:36:00 - [49] It would be nice that if you didn't have the skills, the buttons didn't appear on the UI. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:40:00 - [50] I didn't read the entire thread but the morons saying "You need Energy Management 5 anyway" need to get a clue. This is a skill that a new to semi newer player isn't going to train up anytime soon because there are so many other more necessary skills that need to be trained before you even think about this. I am not very new to the game but I don't have it trained either. I have over a million SPs in Learning and a decent set of attribute implants which cost around 100 million isk. Even with all of that, it is going to take me two weeks just to train that one skill. I can't imagine how long it would take a newer player who doesn't have those implants and Learning skills that i do. I would guess around 3-4 weeks. While I agree that Heat isn't something that a new player should be concerned about early in his "career" or a "must have" for even the vets, it is certainly another thing in the game which widens the gap between new players and Vets. Like the OPer said, now he will have to get off of his plan to train this or else fall even further behind.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:42:00 - [51] You will notice that all of the people that say they are ok with the current times are older players. But what do you think it is to a new player? CCP advertise all of these new feature to attract new player but doesnt give them a chance in hell at using them. If you have less than 5m skill point i can almost guarantee that the majority of your skills take a week or less to train. No, im not talking about older players power training alts for a specific purpose, im talking about the guy who just started a week ago, or maybe a month ago. And wants to try the new features, with these intensive skill requirements this will only benefit the much older players, who either have the skills trained. Or can afford good implants, and have had the time to get good learning skills. If CCP wants to bring new players to this game by adding more feature they should make sure that they are feasible for them to use. And not make every new skill they introduce have skill requirements that are massive for anyone less than a capital pilot to train. Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Na'Kunni Amarr Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:42:00 - [52] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Na'Kunni Can't we make Thermodynamic's only require Engineering level 5 + Energy Management/science level 4 Why always lower and lower the requirements?? I think it is perfectly fine as it is. If you want something special, work for it. 15 days skilltraining isn't that much! If 15 days are too long for you, then I think this heat stuff has just not worth to you. With the same arguments above you can say: awwwww, capital ships are so skill and isk intense, lower the requirements! BS 5! Capital ship skill! Poor noob never can get this! Such skills ARE NOT MEANT to be for the noobs. They are meant for the experienced guys! (btw: i also lack eng mngt V, but so what?) First off if i look to my left, i see your in a corp called "Miner Tech", now i'm not totally sure, ill check in-game, but I don't see Heat being worth anything to you at all. So hy should you bother. Heat is a PvP think imo. And my main concern is the Thermodynamics skills a rank 3 (YES rank 3) skill, but yet you have to train a rank 1 + a rank 3 skill to level 5, bit crazy imo, maybe if thermodynamics was a rank 5 maybe 6 skill, then yes i could and would actually say it was for the vets. And i'm kinda sick of people using Cap ships ect as the same argumenet, FFS cap ships are ment for the "LEET", thier skills should be sky high, I dont give two ****s about Cap ships, as i will never come across on the recieving end of thier weapons, so they don't matter to me. But I will be on the recieving end of heat. /me Bathes in the flames, seeing as im such a nub and a whiner, i lube it
Na'Kunni Amarr Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:43:00 - [53] Originally by: FireFoxx80 It would be nice that if you didn't have the skills, the buttons didn't appear on the UI. ^^
Snake Jankins Minmatar Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:43:00 - [54] I don't have energy-management V, my alt doesn't have it with his 38mil SP. But I knew that it's an important skill worth training and so it was on my todo list for like 2 years. So now it will happen. 2 weeks, not really that much tbh. Just train it and be happy. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Plave Okice Gallente Combat Systems	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:44:00 - [55] As said many times already, it's not like it's a useless skill, it's a very important one that all should get to V anyway
Edania Caldari Ordo Adeptus Astartes Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:46:00 - [56] just a brief note not flaming or anything but to base assumptions on a persons corp name is a very bad thing to do, many a pirate corp has an industrial sounding name just to prey on people who think like that Quote: my Clone was excelent, i just had too many skillpoints
Na'Kunni Amarr Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:48:00 - [57] Originally by: Plave Okice As said many times already, it's not like it's a useless skill, it's a very important one that all should get to V anyway But there are many more important skills that should go in its palce first, level 4 is a spot on skill for energy management, until you ahve a ncie set of SP under your belt, then it should go to 5. Im amarr i admit i have cap problems, but a cap booster solves that, inwhich i carry on each of my ships + 1 NOS, so its not really a, zomg, i got to go train it moment. It's just totally useless. And the last few posters have made a few good points ;),
Na'Kunni Amarr Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:49:00 - [58] Edited by: Na''Kunni on 20/06/2007 09:49:32 Originally by: Edania just a brief note not flaming or anything but to base assumptions on a persons corp name is a very bad thing to do, many a pirate corp has an industrial sounding name just to prey on people who think like that cough, why i said wait till i check in-game if it turns out nto to be my post gets deleted.... read my post FTW EDIT - I did check Miners Developers Defenders I stays
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Plave Okice As said many times already, it's not like it's a useless skill, it's a very important one that all should get to V anyway qft! You apparently know nothing about looking at thing from another persons perspective. For any player that has less than 6months game time these requirements are a bit too extreme. All keeping the skill requirements high will do is make it so that there is an even larger gap between new players and old ones. Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
DroppedAschild	Posted - 2007.06.20 09:52:00 - [60] Having EM 5 trained will problably save your sorry asses more often then heat will.

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